 Peace be upon you all, welcome to our show discussing the different aspects of the story of Ashura that took place in the desert of Karbala. Today's episode we're going to focus on the aftermath of Ashura, particularly looking at the treatment of the women and children who were taken as captives after the massacre took place. It was a very testing and a very painful time and often an aspect of the story that is possibly put a secondary to the story of Ashura itself. To shed light upon this topic and to further the discussion, we've got our guests Saeed Ali Nawab as well as Ibrahim Ansari to provide some poetry and add to the discussion. Saeed now must start before the actual events that happened when we mourn for 10 days up to Ashura. Many communities take some kind of break and stop mourning, maybe for a few days or for a few weeks till the Arabian comes up. Other communities however carry on mourning. My question is that why is it so important to not stop on Ashura, the day of Ashura and actually remember this even one could say a bigger tragedy that happened afterwards because there are no defenders. In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. Praise be to Allah, Lord of all the worlds. May Allah's blessings and blessings be upon Muhammad and his family and his family. May Allah's blessings and blessings be upon him. May Allah's blessings and blessings and blessings be upon all of them. It's a very good and important question. Why is it important to continue mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, and the tragedy of Karbala and what befell the Holy Household of Abdullah al-Hussein on the land of Karbala? Obviously, once we come to look and research about the events of Karbala historically, we find that everything started on the day of Ashura. Some tend to believe that we mourn, we wear our black clothing from the first of Muharram until the 10th and the Imam is in that brutal manner decapitated and at the afternoon of the 10th of Muharram everything finishes. It is unfortunately in some parts of the world today. But it's very good to understand, as I said, that everything started on the day of Ashura. All the calamities, all the masa'ib, all the problems and tragedies started on the day of Ashura. The people of the house, peace be upon them. Okay, they say, if Allah wills, Muharram will not see his father as stated by Imam Al-Jawad or Imam Al-Sadiq, peace be upon him. When they used to see the crescent of Muharram, they were never seen in their joyous status. But everything is added until the conclusion happens on the day of Ashura. So when the Imam actually passes away, the body is decapitated and then the attack happens on the 10th and the camps of Imam al-Sadiq. And the start of the captivity of the women and the children of Imam al-Sadiq itself is a tragedy. For them to be taken as captives itself is a tragedy. Maybe, as you said, greater than the tragedy of Imam Hussain, alaihi salam. So it's very important that Ahlul Bayt, alaihi salam, in the months of Muharram and Safar, they mourned. Yes. And the greatest example we can take for this, where it shows the wider image outside Muharram and Safar. Rather for the whole of the year where Imam Al-Mahdi, al-Jarallah, al-Sharif in Ziyarat al-Nahiya says, I will not be crying for you instead of tears and tears. I will not be crying for you instead of tears and tears. Glory and misery. I will not be crying for you. I will not be crying for you. I will not be crying for you. So there isn't a time limit. But it is us who can't force people to mourn for the whole of the year, although it is policy. We have alama who used to start their lessons every day during the year with Imam Hussain, al-Mahdi. It's good to remember Imam Hussain every day, even if you don't wear black or just remind yourself because everything exists because of Imam Hussain. For this one scholar I believe I heard that even before every single Salah he says peace be upon Imam Hussain because without him there's no Salah. Without the mention of Hussain, alaihi salam, without the sacrifice of Imam Hussain, there was no Salah. In my community, I come from the Indo-Pak community and we have two months, nine days, till the night drop we level. Yes. There's morning and some centres do actually immerge in every single night for two months, nine days. Everyone in your experience, why do you think it's so important? Imam Hussain was growing up and even now that the passion dies down after Ashura whereas in fact it must continue for at least till for the next few days when this calamity happens to the women and children. When narration summarises all, which is first of all, actually two narrations I will mention. Imam Zain al-Aabideen, there would not be any food or any water served to him unless he mixes it with his tiz. One of the companions of Imam Zain al-Aabideen, he comes to him and he says to him, oh Imam, why is it that we still see you in the States? The al-Bait have the greatest of patience. He replies to him with this. He didn't say because my father was beheaded in a cool way. He said to him, have you ever heard or seen of a lady from the progeny of Prophet Muhammad or Imam Ali taken as a captive before the day of Ashura? This is the true tragedy. Say, the Zainab and the women taken as captives to Karbala. You mean the imams talk about that? The imam, this is what he's crying about. Imam Al-Ruza or Imam Sadiq actually I believe. He stands and he watches his house being burnt. And he sees the woman running between room to room and the companions see him crying. They say to him, the next day they see him crying. They said to him, is this the first time they have burnt your house? Oh son of the Prophet, of course, referring to the house of Fatima al-Zahra as well. Why is it that we still see in this grief? I said to him, I remembered my aunt Zainab. It stayed with the imams. Say, now let's actually focus on the actual events. So we've done Ashura, the tents have been burnt, jewellery has been looted and they are now tied up. I have two questions. In fact, can you describe just some of the things that the army of Yazid did? And secondly, more of a moral question as such. Even in the West we have exceptions for women and children. If you've seen things like Titanic, when the Titanic is sinking, the priority is given to women and children. And it shows that the human being does have some kind of compassion for women and children as we must defend them sometime. Where was this compassion? Where did it go? How does a human being go to the stage where they are able to poke, throw stones, burn women and children, who are at that time the most vulnerable people? So what happened and how does a human being get to this state? Of course, to recap on some of the things that happened to the women and children, only a minute amount of narrations of the actual happening have we have received through Imam Zubayr al-Baita al-Mussalam. And that was done intentionally. The Imams intentionally advised their companions and their family members not to convey the full extent of what happened. On the day of Ashura, fear over the death of the Shia. Wow. And as I said, what we have and what is recited year by year on every Muharram is a repeat of just a minute amount of narrations received from Lady Zaynah by Imam al-Baqir al-Aliyasalam, Imam Zaynah al-Abideen and the little children of Imam Hussain and some of the reporters that were present on the land of Karbala during those 10 days. But what we understand from the narrations of Ali al-Baita as what exactly happened is that until the last moments of the life of Imam Hussain al-Aliyasalam even when he was lying there on the plains of Karbala, his main concern was to keep away the army of many Umayyad from the tents and from the women and the children. And he was always speaking to the army or to those who surrounded him in that location, where he used to tell them, as long as I am alive, keep your soldiers away from my tents. And when he himself went to the river of Furat to get some water for the tents and for himself to drink some water, as he was about to place the water in front of his face, to stop him from drinking one of the men from behind, from the army of Amar bin Sa'ad, said to him, are you going to enjoy that drink of water and the army is attacking your women, your the tents and the children? Of course it was false, but they wanted in any way to stop the water from being taken from the Imam al-Aliyasalam. So the Imam's concern at all times, not only the Imam, but the family members of Imam Hussein, the companions, was to keep and protect the women and children as much as possible. Because if the men are present, then they can defend. But the women and children, how can they stand in front of these fierce men who are dressed in their army clothing with their big swords and shields and they come and their aim was to annihilate the family of the Holy Prophet. Of course the women and the children, the immediate family of Imam Hussein al-Aliyasalam, they knew everything because it was planned for this to happen. So even before, just between two brackets, even before the birth of the Holy Imam al-Aliyasalam, Rasulullah prepared everyone for the events of Karbala. So everyone present in Karbala, they were part of the plan and they knew their position and what they had to do. So the women and the children of the family of Imam Hussein, they knew exactly what is going to happen to them. And the army of Amar bin Sa'ad, they were so fierce and they were so violent to an extent that there wasn't anything left for them to do. But Imam Hussein al-Aliyasalam in the final stages and the final moments before he left towards the battlefield came and bid farewell to the women and children and the Imam did speak this wonderful statement that gives it all to the women. It calms them down a little bit. He told them, The Imam did not say that these people are not going to hit you, those people are not going to loot your tents, those people are not going to slap you or they are not going to whip you. The Imam al-Aliyasalam stated, Physical abuse where they are going to get so close to the women and children of Imam Hussein al-Aliyasalam to abuse them physically. In our daily terminology to abuse someone physically is to God forbid rape them or attack them sexually. So the Imam al-Aliyasalam said this statement that they will hit you. They will slap the little children. They will loot your hijab or they will loot your tents. But in that manner they are not going to because Allah SWT miraculously is going to protect you. It won't take your honor as such. It won't take your honor because it's very difficult. The angels will never be able to stand their watch that the sons of Haram come so close to the women and children of Imam Hussein al-Aliyasalam. But other than that Imam told them, he placed his hand on the heart of Lady Zainab and he said, O Allah grant her patience because what is going to happen after me is much greater. We'll touch upon this afterwards about how they did remain patient. As per the usual format of the show we're going to have some poetry recited by Ibrahim about the topic of the women in Karbala. Two very short poems written by Basmul Ansari the first. The story of Karbala is full of pain. It doesn't end with the beheading of Hussein. His family and children were put in chains. But like him, just to Zainab refused to deign. Zainab had to be emotional yet firm. Through her stance she resisted the tyrant's time. Hussein was victorious. She had to confirm her resilience was the way to reaffirm. The second. Suddenly Zainab had to lead while watching her brother bleed. Hussein was beheaded by greed. The enemy didn't hear her bleed. Women and children to her run. The army frightened them for fun. Kept them thirsty. Under the sun, burning and looting had begun. She came to Zainal Abideen. You're a refuge, Imam and Deen. He ordered them to escape the scene. Knowing it will last till Arba'een. Knowing it will last till Arba'een. Beautiful, thank you. And sticking with you Ibrahim, you described what happened between Ashura and Kufa, those two periods in time. Which moment for you, and I know their old project, breaks your heart the most in terms of what happened to the women or the children? That's a difficult question. Very difficult. So between Ashura and Kufa we are talking about straight away the night of the 11th until possibly 13. Yes. You see, I'm going to mention, I think I'll mention two. The first is when they started to burn the tents and they were asking. And they saw say the Zainab as she walked between them and she tried to put down the tents. And that is a very powerful scene actually to even think of. And the second of which, the reason I'm just mentioning them quickly is because I don't want it to get too emotional. The second of which is the actual entrance into Kufa. This entrance that every time you read the narrations about it, it's something that will truly break your heart. Because especially when you know the true status that say the Zainab had and the disrespect that the women had to see as they were walking into Kufa with stones being thrown at them. And you know, there's some Arabic poetry. And they recite it in Musa'ib, Bishmala al-naas, Why are people looking at us in this way? Why is it that they are disrespecting us in this way? And when you truly know the status that these women had and the disrespect they saw, that truly breaks the heart. Absolutely. Going forward now and I want you to expand upon a point you said earlier about the Imam told say the Zainab in particular to remain patient and he prayed for her and what not. Now, genuinely speaking and if we put the prayer to one side and Allah's protection to one side, as a human being, how did the ladies and even these young ladies as well actually remain patient because we've described what happened to them and for any person that would break them just mentally, forget physically, how is one able to not just you witnessed Ashura but then to have this happen to you for several days, how does one still keep their faith in God? Being a human being is very difficult to answer this question. Taking examples from our daily lives where just through let's say a normal traffic, road traffic accident they would bring in specialized individuals from the Met Police or from the ambulance service who are specialized and receive training for traumatized individuals and they stay with them for maybe days trying to calm them down and use their experience to take that fear away from them. Now, for you to come and say that a three-year-old daughter of Mahfuzayn, that's right, an army soldier with the armory running behind the three-year-old daughter of Mahfuzayn after seeing what she saw of the least we can say of blood, a little girl seeing blood, it's soft enough but to see the head of her father go on top of a spear and to see the 10-spin bat, she has no father to run to and her auntie and her only hope is just looking, doesn't know what to do and this man is running behind her thinking that he's going to kill her again like her father. How did they become patient? I don't know. Other than that, I can say it's something that Allah swt had placed upon these individuals to keep them steadfast for the sole reason that they have a message that they have to accomplish. Little Rukaiyya had a message and what happened to Rukaiyya in Sham itself was a pulpit, Imam Hussain alaihi salam had prepared to continue and all of these brothers and sisters for you to know that Imam Hussain alaihi salam as promised by his grandfather, by his father, by Archangel Jibrail in the last moments they came and promised Hussain, you still have time to not back away but you still have time to say to Allah, I don't want to be killed in this manner I can't see my women and children being taken as captives and Allah swt is not going to lower your position you will still have your position, you will still get your reward but Imam Hussain alaihi salam chose for this to happen and the sole reason was Islam but unfortunately some individuals come today and take Islam and the message of Islam for granted. Forgetting what Imam Hussain and the children of Imam Hussain had to go through for the sake of this message and this message only wants the happiness for us. We don't want anything from you. Imam Hussain alaihi salam does not want anything from you but to obey Allah swt and at the end you are going to be the winner. So how did the women and children of Imam Hussain be able to hold on is out of imagination no one can actually come and imagine how a woman, a female who Allah swt has said through the statements of the Holy Prophet The woman is like a rose, it's like a plant you should take care of, protect, not allow wind to come and take her left to right I think with just to draw out something from what you said and how they endured just to make us comprehend I think what is fascinating when I think now is that the women and children had cognizance of the bigger picture and to have that age and that stage where you are going through is that no matter what you are going through there is a bigger picture and I think Ibrahim just a point for you to make Just before we go to Ibrahim, I just wanted to make the following statement is that Ahlul Bayt al-Alihim al-salam age, of course they are humans or in the position of humans but age doesn't play a role in their understanding of what they provide so even if we say the 3 year old Rukaiyya or the 6 or 5 year old Sukainer that age doesn't control their intellect and what they can provide and how they can speak If a baby Jesus has that cognizance when they are born then God gives you that insight, age does not matter So intellectually they were all on the same page Even to echo what Sayyid is saying is Imam al-Baqir he was present in the land of Karbala How old? 5? 5 Lot of generations we get from Imam al-Baqir I did want to ask you because I want to try to get some practical lessons for the viewers as well because even though I totally agree this is beyond our understanding What I was saying is that the women and children saw the bigger picture and it seemed they wanted to make a bad situation and see the good in it because they saw the future in the sense that I'm going to go through this suffering but I know in the future it's going to be okay which is why I say the Zaynab said I see nothing but beauty in this sermon which will have another episode on itself In terms of Ibrahim for our viewers as lessons what is the importance of seeing good in bad situations because when you are in bad situations it's like you're drowning sometimes in this calamity that one upon the other What's the importance of mentally and physically seeing good in all situations? You see there tends to be a rise especially even in the mental state depression is rising, mental illnesses are rising this is because of negativity and the extra kind of negativity that is added to every situation a way to tackle it, a very easy way to tackle it or easy to say but to apply inshallah is the remembrance of Allah and the remembrance of Allah and we read in the Quran with the remembrance of Allah the hearts stay calm the Prophet says that the remembrance of Allah isn't just saying Alhamdulillah and Subhanallah although that is part of it, this is the narration he says it isn't just saying Subhanallah wa Alhamdulillah wa Al-Akbar although this is part of the Quran but the Quran is to actually remember Allah and what He has made Halan and what He has made Haram when we stick to what Allah has given us in terms of guidance it will help us mentally, physically and even Imam Hussain alayhi wa sallam and we are remembering him in these days he says how powerful may I be blinded, that doesn't see you seeing over it so knowing that Allah is always with us knowing that Allah is always overseeing our actions what is going on around us will always cause us to have some sort of itma'inan which is why say Zaynab like you beautifully said when she was asked how did you see what Allah had done with your brother she said to him I saw nothing but beauty and an absolutely beautiful point to finish on we'd like to thank our viewers for watching at home an absolutely fascinating episode and a very difficult one to describe in terms of what happened because at the time the vulnerable people of society were brutally treated and I asked a question earlier how can a human being stoop to the level where they can physically attack women and children but then I think to myself if you're willing to throw an arrow at the neck of an infant baby then the possibilities are endless we're going to end as per usual in the format of the show and the traditional mourning this tragedy with a eulogy recited by brother Ibrahim so please brother Ibrahim can you recite a eulogy for us eulogy written by Basm Al-Ansari Ruqayah story let's read a story from a long history in not far land and time there happened a bad crime there was a little girl sweet and pure like a pearl Ruqayah is less than five but she could not survive like any kid her age she's yet to write her page she used to enjoy fun playfully jump and run Ruqayah saw a lot in trail of the onslaught with family Richam she was afraid though come the prison became home after a long forced roam everyone was asleep when she started to weep I miss my dad Hossein I miss my dad Hossein not knowing he was slain she cried for him so hard caused Yezid to shout God take her father's cut head take her father's cut head she thought it's covered bread I'm not hungry to feed for my dad I'm in need God's uncovered the bull the scene shook her fine soul God's uncovered the bull the scene shook her fine soul she screamed from deep pain is this you my Hossein why your face is so pale how can I bear your tale I'm orphaned when still young my fragile heart now stung she couldn't handle more sadness melted her core she took her last warm breath Hossein's darling face death Hossein's darling face death Hossein's darling face death