 Thinking of a dividend of economic gains off the gains from technology is one of the main reasons to implement UBI It is technology has created the middle class and now it's destroying it What's up guys and welcome back to another episode of a mere approved today We have an amazing guest a good friend of mine Floyd and Marin escu now before we get to that a little bit house cleaning notes number one if you haven't already Subscribe subscribe to my channel. In fact every single week. I'll be picking One-to-two lucky winners who are brand new subscribers I'll be giving them $20 worth of Bitcoin and If you're listening to this on iTunes if you can leave a review I will also be picking one-to-two lucky winners from the iTunes review to give them $20 in Bitcoins now without further ado, let me introduce you to my buddy Floyd So Floyd Marin escu is a CEO and co-founder of C4 media which provides software Development news and learning events service to 1.2 million online people with info queue comm And he has an 8,000 attendee annual via Qcon conferences in San Francisco New York London Beijing Shanghai and Sao Paulo Floyd is an angel investor in over a dozen startups and has built teams and businesses in the US Canada China Brazil and Europe Floyd is also a CEO activists for universal basic income Which one of the main reasons why have Floyd on the show today Floyd brother? Welcome great to be here on Amir approved, which yeah, I remember talking about that a long time ago And I brought it. I didn't know if it was you yeah, or you Jay. So it was you That sees a full circle the context was health and health and wellness and Everything everything becomes near proof. That's right But let me ask you this man. I know you for a long time, you know Why you bi there's a couple things. I want to go into this number one Why but before we answer why I'm pretty sure a lot of people out there have a lot of misconceptions of well What is it you hear it all the time you bi you bi? But with the knowledge you've been doing and initiatives that you've been putting forth in the last couple of years If we can tell the audience from your definition What's you bi to you? All right. Well the there are two kinds of you bi. Well, basically it is a monthly Cash payment that goes from us to us via government Enough to cover basic needs paid to the individual with Unconditional you spend it on whatever you want and generally people discuss it in terms of enough to cover basic needs Maybe that's I don't know $1,500 a month. It's not living in luxury. It's not enough to Well, it potentially it's enough to not work depending on how you live But you'd have to be the rooming with like five people. It's really enough to encourage more risk-taking it's enough to eliminate a lot of Nervous and anxious thoughts a lot enough to afford healthy food for your children enough to afford basic necessities of life to get that off The table so you can really pursue your potential life beyond simply surviving That's basically what it is and there's basically two kinds of you bi There's a lot of confusion on this Andrew coin who's a major Editor at national post says one of the reasons why all kinds of people like you bi is because no one's agreed on what it is So there's two kinds of you bi this one is the dividend approach Which Andrew Yang in the States is proposing which I'm personally strongly in favor of where everyone gets Consistent amount you can see it as a dividend on economic growth putting us all as shareholders in our economy in our country Where we all participate in economic growth particularly in the gains from technology and automation which is just displacing a lot of jobs The other approach was popular in the late 60s Call the negative income tax where the less you have the more you get and it may be tapers off at around 60 70,000 year in earnings and and that approach was popular then as a way to end poverty But not initially as a way to see ourselves as shareholders in the economy through a dividend approach And so that's basically what a UBI is So next question is why do we need it? Why do you need it? So right now? I'm seeing capitalism itself is moving in an unsustainable direction like the the confluence of capital and labor Is facing tensions it's never had before So in the age of automation in the age of the kind of technology that we have the artificial intelligence We're developing but also frankly the last 30 years of the onset of modern computing and robotics We have seen a steady decline in the share of national income going to the bottom half of the population In most Western countries particularly US UK and Canada if that continues Where is that going to end? How is that going to end? If you take if you look at one of those charts sewing share of national income and just project the those lines out another 10 20 years You can't call that a freedom capitalist system anymore That becomes feudalism that becomes a system where the top 1% could be earning 35 cents in every dollar and the bottom 50 could be earning 6 cents on every dollar that is a two-tiered system That is like countries where I've started businesses in Brazil and China and like where there's no middle class So technology is displacing the middle class It's been happening already for decades. We can see it already and the impacts of it. So to me Thinking of a dividend of economic gains off the gains from technology is one of the main reasons to implement UBI It is Technology has created the middle class and now it's destroying it and this is happening It happened in my own family My father and uncle had jobs in Ontario's automotive manufacturing sector and when China entered the scene in nearly the two two thousands They they saw the industry contract by more than half like all the small tool shops My dad used to do business with because he was a tool and not designer Like half of them remained and the ones that remained were the ones that automated to stay competitive That's why actually automation is responsible for six times more job losses than trade global trade with China So what happened to to manufacturers with over four million people? Having losing their jobs to automation in United States and Canada over the last 20 years is about to happen to call center workers Retail workers most of the major jobs and what happens to people when the jobs are displaced. It's not that they lose their jobs Job displacement means your category of work no longer exists It's like you just get a job somewhere else like what you've been trained for what you've been making money off your whole life You can't find that kind of work So what usually happens is actually what happened in the United States in those manufacturing States is that half of those people did not go back to work and half those who did not Many of them ended up in on on disability insurance They had no nothing else to turn to and the ones who did go back to work the numbers show the research shows that Typically people's jobs are displaced end up taking lower income work after that because they cannot find work at the same Levels that they were at and this is not an issue of retraining when my dad is 55 What would he be re-trained in so he had to retire? Luckily he had saved up enough and my uncle became a superintendent in a rental building clearly a difference in pay scale from being In working in manufacturing so people need to understand that displacement is real. It's been happening for decades We should be concerned about the displacement that's already happened. That's that has decimated places like Hamilton that have lost like their steel manufacturing and This displacement today is happening at a scale that is unprecedented So one thing it wasn't mentioned before I close this section is I I led a group of 120 Canadian CEOs in October To sign a letter that endorsed basic income and say in Canada and saying that it's urgent What one of the reasons urgent is technological automation another one is Modern globalization which is no longer about factories moving to China But young people today are competing for just normal internet jobs around the world in a way that their parents or grandparents could never have Imagined like just going up work post a job for a podcast editor or graphics artist or a copywriter Anything you want and you can choose between the five dollar an hour person or ten dollars max in Serbia Or we can choose the the one in Canada for like thirty forty dollars like that is the competition that people are being faced with today I know a lot of solopreneurs small businesses in Canada that are hiring virtual assistants in the Philippines on four dollars an hour So so globalization has become hyper globalized now the kind of pressures that that our parents face the manufacturing Like young people today are facing at a whole different scale So what is the impact of that a slow and steady decline in earnings potential a slow and steady decline in the middle class So much so that I saw a report that in here in Ontario the share of jobs that are low-income In last 20 years has doubled from 15 percent to 30 percent like those people didn't really want to take lower-income jobs Maybe that's all they could find so we're already seeing decades of impacts of automation displacing jobs Which is why we're seeing this? Polarization of the economy frankly with no middle-class and then the last two major trends as to why UBI is winner takes all economics Like almost every major industry vertical right now is starting to find to create monopolies of one or two major players Amazon is soaking up like vacuuming the economy pretty much not even paying any federal tax zero tax last year Well, they're well because of Amazon 30 percent of malls in the United States are going to close and here in Canada We've seen like a number of retailers shut down JC penny the whole bunch of others been publicized recently So in a winner takes all economics environment, how do we make sure people are winners too? Like I think the dividend off economic gains is the way we make everyone a winner If if frankly that the way the system the way technology works it naturally lends itself the internet lends itself to winner Takes all economics you can't fight that with regulations you can't fight that with with tariffs So we may as well implement the system where the money flows back to everyone so capitalism can be an emancipatory for everyone and And then the gig economy is another one where like people are in the net Taking less and less of their earnings potential because they're because more and more jobs are not full-time without benefits So these are like urgent reasons for UBI now there's a whole bunch of positive reasons for UBI I personally think that it is the natural Evolution of capitalism towards more of a human-centered capitalism So you know for instance in the late 60s it almost passed under Nixon They didn't it lost by a couple votes in the Senate because two Democrats the senators thought it wasn't generous enough Imagine if we had a UBI implemented since the late 60s like all the all the suffering that would have been avoided All the depravity that would have been avoided like oh, just it just would have been such a different planet It was popular So Milton Friedman was for it Friedrich Hayek were for it These are heroes on the libertarian right the economists why because back when capitalism was in cold war with communism What moral high ground did we have well? We this is a we are a system of freedom and these economists whose idea shaped capitalism wanted to have capitalism and poverty Because that is what our moral high ground over communism So imagine if we'd have done that imagine if we had a system where the economy itself is generating a Dividend to end poverty and allow people to pursue their their true potential life and not be stuck in three dead-end jobs in order To feed their children like that is the potential of capitalism to meet its evolutionary Potential frankly as a force for good not only as a force to to enrich a few at the expense of others What was the hopes what is the hopes of UBI so let's say we turn it on tomorrow. Yeah, what does that give people? Gives people long-term perspective It gives people a chance to wake up in the morning not feel the fear or the shame or let's rewind back sure what What safety net does that give people does that give them does that give them ability? Well, I know for a fact on my rent is paid on a monthly basis Like what would you say generally speaking that money kind of gives people so you and I grew up reading Um, I'll kind of financial literacy books rich dad poor dad cash full quadrant all these things Robert Q. Sackie and all these books hundreds of books have been written about the virtues of a passive income At the benefits of building a passive income you can rely on This is nothing but a passive income for everyone if you imagine that if you get a thousand bucks a month It's as if someone increased your net worth by half a million dollars because that's the value of an annuity stream Mm-hmm of a thousand bucks a month if you get at 18 for the rest of your life So why is a passive income good? Well again, it's it's it's less stress It's the ability to make long-term plans It's the ability to take risks to pursue what you really want to do, you know When you have the energy to do it so like what I was my early 20s I had some stock options paid off from a startup I was in enough to buy to buy myself an income generating rental property I gave myself slightly more than a basic income and because I had that that that Peace of mind that because I had the absence of these kinds of financial fears So the absence of fears is a feature that we have with UBI. It's not only about, you know People having this positive view. I can take it do what I want in life rather the absence of debilitating fears I had that and because of that I was able to quit my job pretty high-paying job at the time and start my business if it If I did not have that risk tolerance addressed because UBI Fundamentally will increase everyone's risk tolerance and risk tolerance is needed to launch businesses to pursue passion projects To do whatever people are called to do they need risk tolerance if I didn't have that that income stream at the time I probably would eventually it started the business anyway, but the timing would have been off We would have been crushed by 2008 But because I had the risk tolerance at the time to start the business in 2006 We're able to start early enough to ride that wave. So I think UBI increases risk tolerance and Decreases stressful thoughts and basically moves you up in Maslow's hierarchy. Why can't we have a system that moves everyone up? Maslow's hierarchy a few notches But kind of a wine there. So the I always look at the problem. We're trying to address. Yeah, and so yes You're right. Automation has caused issues global economy Simple supply demand economics when you have more people bidding for the same job. What happens price reduction? Yeah, exactly simple math So, you know, it depends on which city you live into Toronto is pretty expensive. Yeah, or a global city or at least in North America What would you say though for if we're looking at this objectively speaking like and we can talk about it Toronto because you and I live here Would you say for example the UBI fund that you get at a dividend fund paycheck on a monthly basis? Would that more or less go to support just having shelter over your head because I always look at like, okay It might be a fact objective fact that you're not making enough money to survive where you're living You know, some people 45k is not enough other people it is some people three hundred thousand dollars a year is not enough They want two million whatever right? It's all objective So for me, it's like, okay, is it the fact that rent is too high is the fact that there's a basic living is too high You know, so what is that fundamental problem? We're trying to address where you bi besides a mental psychological safety net the the urgent problem is giving people a Transition from technology from job displacement. That's the more urgent one. Yeah, that's too actually It's too actually I would say as urgent is that I mean jobs are being displaced today and a lot of it It's hard to see because we're talking about systematic a Systematic rejugging of the whole economy to be globalized and also all the automation that we were already seeing every week So that's that's important second one is is again the system Fundamentally is leaning towards more structural poverty towards more structural People in working poverty. I heard something like two-thirds of people in poverty are working Why is it that you were working and you're in poverty? So that is a structural market failure At least the way the markets organized now where there is no nothing like a dividend like a UBI So this is not about welfare. It's not about a safety net This is about raising the floor that we're all standing on so that the system itself is actually creating prosperity for everyone Not only for a few so so I see that structural working poverty is is urgent people right now are suffering their children are in Situations where they a lot of people can't afford healthy food even after the Canada child benefit Which we'll talk about later still 1.4 million children are still in poverty and and a lot of their parents are working Right, so so that's a problem with how the last 30 years since the Golden Age of Capitalism How things have shifted since the advent of robotics and computing and And and then technological displacements so those are the urgent problems to be solved But I see again as an opportunity The greatest thinkers in economics have have been for a basic income like for for decades So why not pursue our evolutionary potential as a system of where we can get to so we can end poverty create a Environment where everyone can pursue their potential life not be held back structurally and I don't think actually answer directly your question about Toronto, but Yeah, I mean if you're to first of all if you have a consistent amount for everyone It's almost incentivizing moving to smaller towns, which is certainly be good. That's a cash investment in rural Rural parts of the world and if you're in the city again, it's not enough to afford a one-bedroom apartment and do well It's like if you room mature three people or you have a family You could probably get by in terms of basic food clothing Basic rent but again with basis basic fears addressed now. What do you do with your life? Right and that's that should be questions. We're asking ourselves. Not how do I eat tomorrow? So I think in conjunction with like UBI whether we'll form a retic There has to be some form like also Educational spearheading because regardless of if you get 500 or $5,000 a month You still don't change the fact of like I'm still in this job. It doesn't pay me well, right? I don't have necessary skills whether you know, it's not like every I hate when people say learn to code Listen, I know I know how to code. I fucking hate it Your science degree into I don't like to code not everyone can code. I just don't like to go I don't like to spend time on my computer coding. I just don't like it So I find it hilarious when people say just learn to code. I'm like, yo human beings are different right people have different interests so I'm always interested from From the the knowledge aspect is that cool here's a thousand dollars for the rest of your life, you know you You can pay your rent cool gives you some type of like psychological safety net you can have but besides that The reality is you're still doing that job. You don't have the necessary skills to move up the hierarchical ladder It would be interesting to see if we can have like a UBI plan in conjunction with some kind of new stream Like because I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on both sides of parties Doesn't matter if you're left right up or down that our educational system today is a complete sham You know student debt is ridiculous 1.2 trillion dollars in debt you can't even claim bankruptcy on student debt Yeah, that's crazy and in the in the states the they Take your social social security away if you don't pay it back So your pension is gone. Yeah, and that that's slavery. It's like modern modern slavery institutional insecurity Yeah, it's like well, don't worry. Yeah, you're gonna go to school. We're gonna charge you blah blah blah, you know Whatever I'm like you're gonna get a job reality. There's no job for what you're taking. It's in back by the government It's crazy. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned education because it's a important distinction there I've heard some funny critiques of you be icing. Oh, it doesn't solve people's life purpose. It doesn't solve education. Yeah Well, like yeah, that's like saying that um that like doctors don't increase crop yields No doctors keep farmers healthy and the farmers increase the crop yields similarly EBI keeps people healthy keeps them Mentally well keeps them able to make long-term bets And then what they do with that with that ability is up to them like do you want government telling people what to learn? Do you want people to have the ability to have more risk tolerance and go and get regained education? So I was on a pet I was observing a panel a couple years ago with people who are actually on Ontario's basic income assistance during when the experiment was running and I was I was shocked actually. I think more than four-fifths the panel said that They had already started like learning new things and so many of which had gone back to college because they knew They had a three-year runway with that experiment which then Doug Ford canceled just for ideological reasons my opinion They all wanted to go back to school because I mean who doesn't want to better themselves Like this whole thing that people are lazy staying home is completely unfounded like a hundred and five thousand people Who are already in 16 basic income experiments in the last 50 years? There was no evidence of reduction of work. In fact in cases of extreme poverty There's more work because people could actually afford to get themselves out of a shady situation. So so people Will have the ability to get an education now how the government or how the private sector? Accilitates that that's a whole different issue But but blaming the idea of EBI because it doesn't solve educational life purpose is completely illogical. I Think it would be interesting to see like a hybrid version. I'm not a fan of government teaching anybody anything I think the system doesn't work. Yeah, I'm fascinated by lamb this new model. They have I don't know if you've been paying attention Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, you should explain it. Yes, a land is interesting like it's still way too early to tell Right, they just started the whole idea. It's In mind you it's still in the STEM fields. So it's not for everything yet But stems are high demand. So the biggest issue right now in North American globally is like good devs front-end back-end full-stack junior, you know, whatever and The traditional way of learning to code is you can be autodictactic like myself learn yourself takes time Whatever you can join some of these boot camps. They range from like 3k up to $25,000 I've seen right or you can go traditional school and maybe like a two-year technical George Brown or something like that So it's high demand right at the end of the day the more experience you have working for companies That's your portfolio ever get hub or get labs like here's how here's my code right code speaks for itself That being said a lot of people don't even have the opportunity to say the bootcamp is a good option for some It might not have 10k or 15k to go to the bootcamp. So a lambda has done is like, okay We will take the upfront capital cost cost and risk with you So Floyd can apply its application only right they read a bunch of applications. They have different cohorts, right? They've engineered certain way of teaching based on science fast learning getting the best mentors and teachers, etc And so if Floyd gets accepted, you know, I don't know maybe the school is like become a full-stack mean developer Let's say right so you go through that process. However long it is. Maybe it's like four six months four to six months At the end of the tunnel lambda has teamed up with a lot of top tech companies Let's say the fangs for example, right and the fangs are always looking for high quality developers, right? So lambda has this evergreen pipeline directly for the fan companies and so for Floyd There's no risk whatsoever. He's getting free education He pretty much has a job guaranteed by a lambda and so the catch 22 though is like once Floyd does get hired by Google Let's say percentage of Floyd's salary that he gets goes back to pay lambda Yeah, so it's almost like deferring your product expense and paying for it later I mean that we should triple down on that because even after UBI doesn't mean people have disposable income But but all the most important thing which is time and Confidence to take those programs without those two Like from the answer for me UBI. I think the biggest thing it solves is the rent I think shelter is the biggest thing and psychological well-being. Yeah Well, psychological for them is like, how do I pay mortgage or how do I pay rent is like? I won't have a shelter for my family in the experiment in the 70s in Mantilla were 5,000 I think a whole town got UBI for five years. There were 8% reduction in hospitalization visits during that period People were less stressed. Well, we've seen in studies that financial stress actually lowers IQ it does I mean behavioral economics research is showing that that people in Financially stress situations make better short-term decisions, but we're long-term ones and reverses true if you if you have not abundance But if you just not not worried about money, so so yeah, it's hard to as Andrew Yang likes to say it's hard to think about Solving world peace or solving the environmental challenges when you have an economic boot on your throat So I even linked this to the environment if people are afraid they're gonna fall prey to fear mongers We're not gonna vote for more progressive parties that have long-term solutions when they're being scared into like oh job job job That's the only solution for the economy The only solution for your prosperity because people are too afraid. Meanwhile, UBI is a path to more jobs because a Study that came out last week that I had some part in organizing show that the Canada child benefit Which is a basic income actually contributes half a million jobs and 85 billion dollars in business People who aren't from Canada. How does that or how does that program work? Okay, so so I have a nonprofit that is doing advocating for you be I but on economic grounds So I think it's really important that we see that you be I is not only about poverty it's about improving the economy for everyone and So Canada actually has the largest national basic income I think in the world that no one's ever heard of or talked about it's called the Canada child benefit This is a tax-free monthly cash that goes to 67% of all families. These are families who have chilled people under 18 in the family dependence 90% of all kids children in the whole country are in families receiving the CCB and If you look at it from the lens so 24 billion dollars a year is paid out to Canadian families and this research that was commissioned sponsored by a few CEO friends of mine we and and EBI works kind of organize it with the Canadian Center for Economic Analysis They did it a non-part an impartial like third-party research We had no no no hands and they're in the in the numbers. We just wanted someone to actually take a look What was the contribution of the Canada child benefit? So we see it as a basic income because Andrew Yang talks about a thousand bucks a month, right? Did you know that? 400,000 families in Canada are currently getting a thousand bucks a month or more through the Canada child benefit 100,000 single mothers are currently getting a thousand bucks or more through the Canada child benefit and over a 1.1 million Families are currently getting 600 bucks a month tax-free versus like Finland Which had a few hundred people getting less than 600 euros a month So like the biggest basic income in the world has already been running for three years here in Canada And what are we seeing for the last three years since that the payments were expanded since since the Liberals were elected We've seen like three years of improving unemployment rates. So like record rules of 40 years. We've seen low inflation We've seen economic growth. In fact, the governor of the Bank of Canada in 2018 said that that program particularly as it As a cash stimulus grew GDP by half a percent in 2017 cash to get or just straight cash per month So this is a you this is basic income, right? And then who qualifies for this? Depending on your income level and so the sliding scale you guys sliding scale based on number on your on your income And how many children you have so each per child if you are absolutely poor in and sorry per child if you're in Absolutely poor circumstances. I think you had up to five hundred eighty dollars a month per child And then it's it then it tapers off all the way up to household of a hundred fifty thousand dollars Even middle-class families are receiving it in fact So what this report did by the Canadian Center of Economic Analysis? It just look at what is the economic contribution this program and there are some very interesting findings. So because people who are are under basic needs or perhaps just Basically treading water like half the country frankly that can't afford $200 in case of an emergency and us It's about five hundred dollars. They can't know that Yeah, that's 200 These people spend the money. So this goes back into the economy. So that economic Stimulus has contributed half a million jobs almost half million 453,000 jobs equivalent Because of that spending businesses receive that money. They spend it again, you know downstream There's multiple effects that happened from this cash stimulus. That's created 85 billion dollars total in business revenues and an estimated I think it was like 813 or 14 billion and in additional gross profits for businesses it's good for the economy and In the net that's been 46 billion a year. That's added to the Canada's GDP Which is like 2.1% or something of GDP because of a basic income that primarily helps people who don't have a lot of money But so so that's how it works like this is a cash stimulus So I want people to understand that that having a basic income is not only about poverty It's about growing the economy and making the system work better because if people are in structural poverty Like who's gonna buy businesses products like we're in a situation right now where more businesses are closing and opening every year And we need to stimulate demand. We need to ensure demand is at a certain level for for the system itself to work Well, that's why I see a basic income as a public utility. It's like roads It's like water you need to have this circulation in effect for the system to work Well for people to participate in their economy for businesses to have more customers for people to pursue their potential And a finally another interesting finding from that that study is that this is not only about Helping lower-income people although it will do that the middle class So I heard of a family whose household income is 80,000 a year And they decided to have a second child because they knew that that with the Canada child benefit They would get next or 250 a month and they could make ends meet because you know 80,000 a year It's it's middle-class, but so depending on where you live you might still be just running water with that money, right? Yeah, like a Toronto. So imagine that like a middle-class family having an extra child You know because of because of this this ability that we provided each other through the base to this CCB and In the report show that all in all $4,500 a year like $4,500 a year more is now being received by middle-class families people over 50 grand a year in household income through the Canada child benefit So this is good for the middle-class and and without programs like this I mean, this is the only counter Vailing force we have against technological disruption of the middle-class. What else do we have? More job creations Which is increasingly lower-income work and and there have been several studies showing the impact of automation on the economy Yeah, it is creating more lower-income jobs than middle-class jobs So you can have all the retraining you want so you could triple down on lambda only when only 8% of all jobs being offered today or stem You're a couple things in conjunction that would help you be I number one or my I won't get into this podcast But you know I talked about our monetary system is completely a mess. I agree like inflation every year the Fed just printed what 35 billion dollars back into Circulation quantitative easing so buying power decreases like 3.5 4% per year So the money you get, you know, I always grab a piece of a grab like a $20 bill here I'm like here you go rip every year rip rip rip, right? So it's like you're purchasing power decreases. That's a whole different conversation There's actually one tech that would help all of this above like exponentially Super cheap fast public transportation Yeah, hyperloop it up Well, there's some hyperloop which Canada desperately needs like I used to fly to Kelowna To see my wife before I moved out there And this is Canada specifically United States It's cheap really cheap to fly from like say New York to like Miami for us. It's like ungodly expensive I can it's actually cheaper for me to fly from Toronto to Berlin than to Toronto to Vancouver, and I'm not crossing any borders So specifically for Canadians if we can have an hyperloop that goes let's say 600 700 kilometers an hour I can connect coast-to-coast like Montreal to Vancouver Believe me. I'll be in Vancouver as much as I can. I love the West Coast Right instead of paying a $700 ticket to go right or even not even you know, that's one thing But even creating more rule fast connections like whether it's like You know, there's areas. I love just north of Toronto like two three hours The fact is like traffic on the 400 I refuse to do it. I just don't want to do it Right. There's beautiful places just north of Toronto So imagine having some kind of like quad helicopter service or like a mini hyperloop or some monorail forget hyperloop Let's can we grab the Japanese monorail train that they have but the technology like if we can have fast cheap technology Combined with like let's say a thousand dollars a month with the gig economy. Why would I live in Toronto? Whereas rents like 2,600 to 3,500 dollars like a two-bedroom downtown where I can decide to live three hours And my rent is guess what a thousand dollars. I think hyperloops for long-distance travel and self-driving Basically quadcopter taxis for short distances. That's the future. Yeah, I mean, I mean hyperloops aren't yet proven But the quadcopter stuff is not far off and if it's self-driving. Well, they're doing tests in Dubai I know that one Israel is doing something with that and I was in Seoul, Korea last year And they're gonna be launching their version of hyperloop soon. It's not technically like hyperloop like Elon Musk, but it's pretty similar. Well, I mean hyperloop is just a maglev train in a vacuum That's it. People's like, oh must be creased. I'm like, no, not really Just using physics, you know, yeah, it's gonna be great to live in small towns and like, you know Take the quadcopter over to Toronto for a job But it's not gonna be affordable until it's self-driving because if you have people driving those things, it's too much too expensive So your approach to UBI How you approaching it because I know there's many different models out there the one that you kind of want to roll out to Canada How do you envision that? yeah, so in first of all the The the the model that the negative income tax model, which is the one that was very popular in the 60s And recurring from the national post said that to implement that would only cost a 3% GSD increase And you would basically end poverty for 3% like the heck why we should have done yesterday What are we waiting for imagine economic stimulus of like ending poverty and and for what just a 3% GSD increase So that would be the first step made aspiration though I believe that fundamentally we should move towards a flat dividend for everyone So so that we see it as again, this is not about welfare. It's not about that stuff This is about us being shareholders in the economy So that the gains from all the gains from technological technological gains the wealth from all that is somehow being shared So that it's anticipating everyone then we'll see capitalism reach its evolutionary potential. So for example John Maynard Keynes the economist whose idea has created the golden age of capitalism said that by now We should all be working 15 hours a week because of all the productivity gains that we would have had Okay, so think about that. He never talked about how things are distributed to allow it to happen He just said that it should be possible It probably is possible, but who can choose to do that if they don't have money, right? So like if the economy the future continues on the trend It's on now, which is creating far more lower-income jobs jobs of service jobs of personal care workers Technicians carting around AI doctors instead of doctors or you know, like if that's the job the job is the future Maybe you want to work 20 hours a week with your UBI and and have a great life So maybe this is the potential capitalism has now I'm not advocating for people not working and there's no evidence That people won't work. I'm talking about the future where there's gonna be less and less Middle-class or high-income jobs because of AI and automation So the dividend approach sets things up. So there's no stigma to receive this money You're not a you're not an unworthy person because no, we are all shareholders in the economy We all get the same amount and this is a a dividend of bounty off economic gains because who owns technology Like who owns technological? Invention I mean the internet was created by government financing much of the the inventions that have created the iPhone were We're science scientific from academia also government funded So like much of the like Zuckerberg didn't invite the internet like look at and he's a super billionaire So if we imagine that who owns technology if we see that technologies are is our shared inheritance And the least we could do is have a dividend off of its gains enough to end poverty and give people a chance to make more long-term Visions and dreams of their life And if we do that we will be in a good place if the job apocalypse does come Which which many experts and credible institutions have said it will come with like half of all jobs being gone in the next 23rd Years if that happens will be set up to actually benefit from that because if that happens things will also get a lot cheaper Elon Musk says that everything will become much much cheaper because of the exponential technologies under development now So if this dividend is in place and things do get a lot cheaper Which many a lot of things have been getting cheaper over the last 30 years like vacuum cleaners cost How much before China entered the scene? You know like modern manufacturing like imagine the cost of an iPhone like like 20 years ago if you try to We'll see the curve might change though because you had cheap labor Right, but then you have the Chinese upper middle class gaining in a hundred million people have left poverty Yeah, well, it's just improve the economy of scale for production things will still get even cheaper Potentially if you can take the human element like for example a lot of people in the textile industry who were in China like from the Guangzhou area are leaving leaving because it's too expensive now than going to Vietnam Sure, right. So it's like China's actually becoming like middle-class America bit by bit. Yeah, I had a funny funny story with that I was in a I visited China and Tibet recently because I had a Business there I was visiting my partner and we went to Tibet together We had a we had approval and all I could have to get approval to go in China And I wanted to buy this hand-painted thing a Buddha hand-painted thing and And and I got one was like this is great like this must be made by an artisan I want to support local community and then we went to Nepal the next part of our trip and Nepal I saw almost identical paintings and like I showed the one of the storekeepers. Hey, I bought this in Tibet Like how come yours is so similar. He's like, oh because they outsourced to us We actually make them all and they get sold in Tibet Wow, so like Tibetans in China like they're outsourcing to Nepal where the labor is cheaper to create It's all about arbitrage. Yeah, all right. Where can you arbitrage now going back to the UBI? How does the welfare system fit into this? Are we planning to eliminate it because I'm pretty sure once again, that's another top. That's another Topic I think both left left leaning right leaning doesn't matter where you're in the spectrum. Everyone agrees our model is broken. Yeah okay, so Where you stand on that also has to do with your where you tend to stand a little politically so In general most people agree that that this should not replace all services because if you have a disability You need some extra money because you're on a disability. You might need some extra support If you have a mental illness you need some extra support It's not like you're gonna fire all the social workers like people Some people just need some help to get through whether they get through and some people need to help permanently That's the whole point of a disability insurance that we could all get hurt. It could happen to any of us, right? This is this is for all of us, right? But what most whatever one agrees on on both sides of spectrum is that this is better than things that that are very similar to just pure welfare Payments because it takes away the bureaucracy it takes away the stigma You don't have to wait in line for someone to to say if you're worthy of help You don't have to prove what you did to be worthy of that help like this is something that we all just get because we're alive It's just like like it's like you have access to roads and drinking water You have access to money for basic needs So there's no more stigma in it No one has to feel like a criminal because they can't work with our modern-day welfare Like for example, the reason why welfare is broken is a scent of models broken So let's say you're like a struggling mother or father and you have one or two kids, right? And so there's kind of the incentive is broken because it's like, okay Let's say let's say if that individual makes X amount more Let's say 2k more than the threshold. He or she loses those benefits Right why on earth and would that person work harder just to make the extra 2k when they're getting all these benefits? Right, so let's talk about that. So, uh, so it's a perverse incentive now In fact, I've heard stories of people who just they want to do block market work Under the table because they don't want to lose their benefits, right? Yeah, see so so basic income actually encourages work because you keep the money you have and in the two methods of basic income I mentioned in the negative income tax method You keep you start to lose it slowly as your income grows So you're still better off working like if you're maybe you have a job for like you make 25,000 year Maybe instead of having your full bi of like 18,000 year You'll you'll only get an extra 10 so but you're still better off with 10 more, right? Or in the dividend approach. They're interesting and Andrew Yang has been Critiqued by people on the far left that hey, why are you saying that? You can choose a thousand bucks a month It's if you're better off than your current support systems Well an interesting point is that okay? Well, maybe a thousand bucks a month might be less What someone might be getting now? Yes, if they work they lose everything they're getting versus if they work and they can keep a thousand bucks a month It encourages you to work. Yes. So the dividend approach fundamentally incentivizes work And that's what people who think that people are lazy will stay at home They're just wrong because like there's no evidence people don't work from again a hundred five thousand people were in clinical trials already And who doesn't want more money? And if someone like absolutely just just doesn't want to work for some reason that's probably like such a small fraction of the Population that's a demonized as policy They'll do so well for so many people just because of that is just that's just like a lot of Charlie Munger has a good saying Show me the incentive I showed the outcome and so like yeah, ideally we would then replace the modern welfare system with like a UBI system Slowly. Yeah, so again both sides agree that replacing a lot of the system at least the parts that are the most similar to what the cash would do It is good, but but then you have the extremes that like people extreme right like Charles Murray Would do away with absolutely everything And then and then people in stream laughs. I mean there's certain programs that they would they would maintain I mean nobody wants to end again funding for mental health, you know Cam H and Toronto like what is up to the UBI right like probably less people go because you less stress But you know, we need to maintain support for disability needs to mean support for like certain Interventions that are required by society Now I'm not an expert in these things so I can't tell you which they are but but in general there is agreement on all sides That yes replacing things that are are directly welfare would be done So you'd have a reduction in government reduction headcount in government, you know government's good at writing checks and And you would achieve that streamlining of government services. So it's actually smaller governments You know, so like another analogy like to offer is that yes more money is running through government doesn't mean government's bigger Like was WhatsApp a big company when it sold for like $19 billion. No, it only had 50 people in it So even though half of half of 500 that I'm sorry Even though like almost a billion people were using WhatsApp doesn't mean what's up was a big company It was a streamlined small efficient company same with government if we have you bi it's a smaller government Even though there's more cash running through it, but but government's really good at writing checks Would this be a federally run program this wouldn't go province province Well, I ideally it would be federal but it depends. I mean Canada's health care system Initially was was championed. I think it was in in Manitoba and then eventually other Other provinces wanted to adopt it and then it was adopted federally So, you know, there might be one smart bold province that does it first and then everyone else is gonna see the economic answer Not like sure we should do this everywhere. We're waiting for I think of Canada's first. I think the world will follow And so what would because I know you're running a bunch of initiatives right now. Yeah to make to push this In your in your mind, what would you say is the next Initial steps that you need to take for this to actually become a reality Me personally or like Canadians. Oh you you speak on behalf of you Yeah, so what I'm doing now is like I'm really grateful like my business is doing quite well It's a I have more time now in addition to that to to work on this activism stuff So, I mean the unique the unique take that I'm taking now is Is anything that pushes the the economic narratives around it because everyone understands the social narratives We understand that that people be healthier We understand that child success rates will improve more better graduation rates less mental health You know mental health improvements everyone knows those things the impacts of poverty The fact of solving poverty will actually solve save a lot of money for the government to in terms of reduced crime and in terms of Yeah, there's a lot of things like that. Sorry But my focus is making the case that it's also good for the economy because the people understand that I think it'll it'll face less resistance in the federal 2024 elections and any provincial elections before that so So the group that we're organizing is organizing like funding and organizing marketing and press PR and Social media influencer campaigns around things that will push this economic narrative. So the first example was last week Mention earlier the Canadian Centre of Economic Analysis put a paper about the economic impact of Canada's the Canada child benefit So my team went to work with the social media campaign like spreading that idea We had an amazing video that summarized the key points You know, we made we made resources available for for the press to ask questions So we have ideas to do more things like that, you know last year we launched the CEOs for basic income again to provide the People to actually show Canadians that in fact that business There is business support for this because if all they hear from a special interest group saying like low tax Low tax low tax they think that's what the business community wants No, that's what special interest groups whose mandate is that what we'll say So I want to show that in fact in my own experience like there's overwhelming support in the business community for basic income Like all the private founder people that that we hang out with like four fifths of them Immediately said they sign a letter because that they want to see a Canada thought poverty. They want to see that Savvy obi. So I just organized a letter to get 120 CEOs to sign it and there it is It's online right now CEOs for basic income dossier So we'll be doing more with that group trying to expand it out maybe get to 300 CEOs Maybe get to a thousand so I'm personally focused on again more campaigns that will Will make people understand that basic income is is not about welfare. It's not only about ending poverty It's about Evolving our economic system to its potential Hmm and so how would this be voted in does have to be like a full federal vote for something this to go through Yeah, so I mean the reason Andrew Yang is is done more than probably anyone else in the world to spread the idea Simply that he's he's running so there's someone running that you can vote for and have it tomorrow if you believe in it So he has to convince people that this is a good idea, but the Senate has to all vote in favor of right? Yeah, yeah, but you know if if a president gets a huge majority mandate I mean it would be a very dangerous politically for for even minority parties to stand it Against that so hopefully he wins by landslide or if he doesn't hopefully he's Sparked a whole generation to understand that what automation is doing so that may be 60 years from now or the next election Someone will run on it again. Maybe he'll run it again. He's only 44 years old, right? So yeah, so here in Canada I Think yes Canadians have to so the part the parties right now are a bit squeamish about running on it today Is because they don't think there's enough support for it because people from legitimately don't understand it Lobby was don't know what it is. They don't they don't they think it's welfare. They don't know it's good for the economy So I think that Canada has its best chance to get this passed in the federal 20 to 24 election If several parties are running on it like promising it or maybe a few provincial elections that come before that so By that time we'll see self-driving trucks on the road We'll see self-driving cars people will be scared and then they're gonna remember things Andrew Yang has been saying and things that my group has been putting out and and then they'll have a real chance So so I'm doing everything I can to create the conditions of public awareness so that You know in five four or five years the public parties aren't afraid to run in it And because they know there's public support. It does have to be done through government I do support the risk crypto approaches to it However, I don't I think the fastest way to get it is to vote it in and and I think again Once once we see those self-driving trucks on the road people are gonna understand it if they don't understand until then They'll understand it now and I think we'll have a real chance. Yeah, I was always a fan of the I read this paper I mentioned this the before as a fan of the UBI dividend Fund model but legitimately an actual fund. Yeah, where you would have you would Allocate funds, so let's say we take the broken model welfare, so we won't touch disability We won't touch, you know mental that's all fine But like the the bad incentive one where it's like if you make 2k more you lose everything Yeah, that's garbage doesn't help anybody. So you allocate a bunch of funds. So you look at it from like purely Objective will objective data. It's like what really works. What doesn't work and allocate that data allocate that That money that to the fund Then we would have a fiduciary Non-government employee very important like any good fiduciary this person's responsibilities IRR internal rate of return So these are our tax money in this what we can call like Sovereign citizen fund right yeah, but the thesis of the fund or the modus operandi is this though Number one it needs to invest locally. So it's a federal fund. So locally means Canada So you invest in businesses in Canada infrastructure in Canada etc. So that's base layer Second layer like any good fund because you're looking for internal rate of return is like where else can we deploy the money? Then maybe we do some like indexes and ETFs, you know, kind of like safe havens. Maybe some reads whatever You know, I'm not a fund manager And then the third layer on that is like, okay, where else can you get returns global investments, right? The base is Canada first and like any good fund like if you and I are We have our money in a good like private equity fund or some type of fund There's a return for us as capital providers and so for me I look this as like a very interesting stimulus because on one hand you have a performance base type of fund Number two, the money can circulate back into like startups and local businesses and kind of like makes it fun It gamifies it like you use you as a citizen that go cool Like here's a fund like you actually know where the money's kind of be I would love to have like a UI UX I go into app and like, you know, I mean like realistically I'd love to know that one thing that irritates me about the government the most is The fact is a black box. I think if the government really wants to if whoever runs on this would actually get votes We need to make it more transparent, you know, like they're one of the reasons why I don't like taxes It's not transparent to me. I have no idea where the money goes and for me I'm all about efficiencies if I know for a fact that The dollar you're taking for me is actually going to that construction company there and actually does making a difference That road is getting paved through sales tax if I can see that Let's do it, you know, but right now whether it's sales tax Income tax isn't whatever tax you name it. I have no idea How that money is being deployed Yeah, I mean government stuck in the 80s in terms of technology. It's crazy. I don't have an app right now Like I imagine a beautiful UI UX app like okay This this this quarter the government has collected X amount of taxes is being allocated to this These are the people and government needs accountability. I was talking with My buddy John was on the show a couple episodes ago. It's like one thing to make the government more efficient And we can change the rules today is people need to be able to get fired You someone possible to get fired. I was reading a cool Interest I must say cool. It's an interesting case study where they caught the guy twice on I think porn hub, right? Oh sirs Union rev talks about it doesn't non-efficient like this guy just Younger on job and check some porn, you know, I mean like this and you can't get fired And so for me, it's like let's create systems that have proper incentives, right? I want the best people in government. I want minimum government most efficient government I don't want bloated. I don't want like oh, we got a higher 10,000 more people. Why do we need more human beings? We need less human beings in there, but we need more efficiencies So if it'll be fascinating the future if we can actually streamline that process where it's like it's more tech oriented where you have You get your thousand dollars a month, you know, you can see where the money is being allocated for the government And I don't that that's at least my dream, but I made my dreams too big for that. I think it's very realistic More techno more techno savvy government to come in. Yeah, and I had a good good idea I think Angie Ang said that on on your annual tax day should be a holiday on the holidays should be like Like I don't like some kind of videos coming off the government saying thank you for your tax dollars Here's what's being spent like you contributed to this into the tax system is a change and but they could do it like in like China For instance has incredible amounts of transparency China There's an app that you can go in and see who owns any company any kind in the whole Whole country and like you can like click in recursively and find out who owns a shell companies and like play with it It's interesting. I'm gonna be careful what you say in China and what you do, you know, that's a whole different topic, but We're going with this. Oh the transparency stuff Ideally though, you know Hopefully so that that changes but oh yeah the taxes So the thing with the taxes though, and I know we're gonna off off topic But it relates to UBI is they need to figure out how to simplify it for people Actually, so my my I'm really in favor of and I plan to work with some people to do some proper projections of this Yeah, is UBI a flat dividend with so we call it UBI fit So a flat dividend with a flat income tax a flat dividend with a flat income Everyone gets a flat so everyone starts off at let's say, I don't know making this up Everyone starts off a 20,000 year, okay And on top of that every dollar you earn through earned income is taxed at maybe 35% even your first dollar, okay? because you're not poor anymore and You know and everyone has the same access the same floor just to stand 35% flat income tax Yeah, and then you'd have to increase the GST, which frankly is important I think in a modern economy, okay The GST is a value-added tax and in Canada it's like half that of it in Europe So we're in a we're in a globalized environment where globalized multinationals are paying very little tax Well disrupting industries here like any companies we pay more in tax and the only way to reclaim that money is through increasing the GST and Putting that back in Canadians pockets Why don't we just reduce income tax if I need more money? It would be a reduction if it's well 35% if I'm making 100k plus it's reduction or maybe 40% max or something like that Yeah, I think we should be looking at a I mean again capital is displacing labor like Thomas Piketty I think it should be no income tax. I think the labor that you earn because I'm sweating. I'm bleeding. I'm sweating I'm working. This is my labor. Yeah, my labor is my wage Well, that sounds great if we find alternate if society comes to see alternate methods of funding that I frankly think Again, consumption tax the capital is the sales tax Sure. Yeah, I mean assuming people have enough money to afford to buy And above all above all going back to what I spoke about above all. Yeah Accountability with money within the government. It has to happen Cuz no matter what you okay We're wine 10 years. What we talking about we need to raise taxes. We need more money. Okay, we're wine 10 years from now Same story. Okay, let's come present day. Let's go fast forward 10 years from now What's the talk of talking points while we need more money? Why do we always need more money? Why why? Where's the money going? Who's responsible for the money? I think your taxes are lower now than they were 10 years ago. So now income tax income tax is the same Well, certain taxes. Small business corporate taxes. I'm talking about the regular people whose small business like I'm talking about like the 98% of people well if you consider some of the tax rebates Regular people are getting they're far better off than before like there's a GST rebate. There's the carbon dividend Yeah, there's you know, there's the Canada child benefits So like people in the lower thirds are of income earnings are better off than they were 10 50 years ago So a tax rebate is tax relief. You may pay up front, but you get it back after so it's lower tax overall Maybe and a basic income is a form of a tax rebate. It is tax relief. It just comes to you you pay out But you get some back. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know But yeah, I mean what you're saying is I mean more we should I always believed This is fundamental to my my being that transparency fixes everything. So I think the more transparency the better so we need to make a new party in Canada call like The tech I don't know the tech party. Oh, that's it's the Green Party. No Think they're there for everything you at yours that you've been saying. Yeah, but they're their marketing is not working You need a brand new party. You need something where it's like Super young people the Internet Pirate Party. Yeah, something you know Well, there's interesting movement called liquid democracy. Yeah, it's the idea that that candidates would run Promising to do whatever their their local population is voted for through like direct democracy means like having apps Or you could vote on the issues that you care about and your candidate promises to represent you Although he has the right to veto it if he feels like it explains you this model It's very similar to Switzerland and Lichtenstein and yeah, so I'm a firm believer in Minimizing nation states not for secure. So Switzerland model is interesting The problem with massive nation states like Canada in the United States is not the fact that the nation states that the fact is No checks and balances. That's the problem, right? So it's like one dictator can does it all it doesn't matter if it's left party Right party doesn't matter. It's one party as Noam Chomsky said the parties in power. That's his plate. Oh words on play Basically in Switzerland, you have the Canton system So you have a central government and you have Canton in different cities, right? Each Canton has the option of sending their tax policies or any policies per se And so each Canton then has to compete with the other cantons You don't want to have foolish policies and persons like well, why would I want to live here? I can go live there So you have to play checks and balances number two They have veto power over the central government case the central government has some erroneous Stupid law like well, no, this doesn't help us, right? So like I would love to see we're in Canada. We have that where it's like, okay, the federal government's responsible for private property The protection of its citizens and national security and now they're like I would say and also infrastructure and Ubi is infrastructure It is a public utility because structural poverty is is a failing of the system and and it's getting worse and worse So implementing this Circulation of funds I see as a public utility as important as roads as important as electricity Something the economy needs to function well, especially in a winter text all economic system So if the federal government also just does that ensures that all citizens can participate in their economy I would put them the same category as as public defense. We have to be really careful of who we hire to run this and within the government We definitely don't want to hire the same people running the modern day welfare program Well, again, it's not welfare. Yeah, it's it's nothing to do with it. You still need people to understand How to help people get out of a bad situation whether whatever it is mental health or more disability You need those departments because all any of us could fall into that. You never know You get hit by a bus, right? but what we don't want is this this like what's it called the industries of misery like food banks and all these these Government employees or NGOs that profit off of poverty. Oh NGOs. We don't need to start it Don't get me started with NGOs. You just send poverty exactly Martin Luther King was like towards the end of his life like This might even be connected to his assassination, unfortunately But he started to organize poor people's campaigns in the 60s late 60s Pressuring the government with marches and planning a march that we should have a guaranteed minimum income in the United States For all all all ethnicities. It wasn't something only for black Americans So he was he decided I'm gonna make the rest of my life about that and shortly after he was assassinated and then without that pressure on Nixon Eventually, the whole thing just kind of fizzled out But imagine if he was not assassinated imagine if we he had kept up with that. We'd have had a basic income by now like for sure It's fascinating man, you know, it's interesting times we live and I think there's gonna be a lot of turmoil Happening. I just hope that there's not too much blood before people wake up of what what technology has been doing It's it's you know If a frog if you put a frog in water that slowly starts to boil that's that's how it's things have been economically since the mid 70s There was a time during the gold what's called the golden age of capitalism when wages were growing like almost 3% a year year after year Was it still pre 1970s before the mid 70s before computing gold standard bro the dollar I think it's actually technology like before technology to yeah, so you have people people who with jobs were participating in the growth of the economy because And and well, there's a couple. No, there's a couple of reasons. Okay, so 6070 80 that those three decades. Yeah, and then there's a couple of there's Fundamental couple of things that contributed to what's happening today number one technology. Yes, right more or less Eliminating the human need to do something right which before what's called the great decoupling mm-hmm when wage growth and productivity growth You still go together. Yes before before the mid 70s. They stopped wages stopped growing to productivity went up Yes before the great decoupling that's before computing mainframe computers where it were common before the personal computer before modern robotics So there was a time when you actually needed people to create all the stuff that technology was creating And then he didn't you needed people number two We had a gold standard so it wasn't quantitative easing the buying power of the American dollar was strong You didn't have in this you didn't have all this ridiculous financial engineering DC today through Whatever through all these different means That's a whole different I'm gonna bring a whole team of people to talk about this soon Right. Well, I'm gonna talk about the Federal Reserve and how our monetary system is broken. So we had that issue Next issue that you had you touched earlier is more more global trade global opening, right? What happens a global or opening you have a global workforce, right? Next thing is interesting though is you have the advent of birth control, right? And global globalization is also a technological thing. Correct You couldn't make iPhones across 50 countries without emails and computer technology. Yeah, right. So I was gonna mention birth control That's technology. Yeah, so then you have the empowerment of feminist movement, right? You have women now for the first time in history have a device a technology they can say I don't want to have a child So now you have all this think all these ingredients in this building probably we're about to face a population collapse I agree with the population There's multitude reasons for the population collapse is like one cost of having a family. He's a major one number two the deconstruction of a nuclear family or or the idea the myth of a nuclear family is being pounded on is like Anyways, but yeah, it's I I definitely want to have a podcast with somebody talking about that is like to me That's one of the biggest threats is actually people talk about human overgrowth. It's the actually opposite. It's I'll give you example Bill Gates has the Bill and Melinda Foundation of vaccines, right and One of the he talks about this But one of the biggest threats facing human existence as is is a super bug a viral bug Yeah, we're long overdue statistically speaking and so some basic numbers Iran on simulations is is within the next 10 to 15 years There's a probability of a super bug happening out there and within 365 days so one year that's super bug and this is low and Conservative estimations would kill about 35 million people globally low and high-end making me even be like 300 400 million people dead And so for us is like that's just one bug It can be a multitude of different viruses out there And so we have now like you have places like Japan negative birth rate They're trying to pay for you to have kids Quebec is the same thing so many places around the world I'll benefit is helping that here right no one's having kids Yeah, and actually in China I heard that for a country of 1.2 billion they're only generating 18 million new babies a year I know like now that's like they're they're scared. I know like what's gonna happen Who's so like a funny thing is like Canada actually very well positioned to potentially Capitalized on this because we're we're pro immigration in general So we need more people to come in that we do work jobs to pay for the pensions and UBI's for all the existing Citizens as the population shrinks and people want to come here and it's a very safe and friendly country So we're actually demographically positioned well on this assuming we can we can it's a weather man If we had warmer weather more that's changing too. Unfortunately global warming. I don't know man last year can't try So I'm like come on global warming to Toronto. I want some tropical trees over here Yeah, so yeah, interestingly anyway, I was gonna Get it so what else anything else that people need to know about UBI or how they can help or Yeah, follow UBI works on Facebook and Twitter follow basic income Canada network on you via on on those those platforms And you have a whole bunch of resources and papers there people can read Yeah, you be a works.ca is the way you can learn about the the economic forecast paper We'll be doing more things, but honestly just have an open mind and tell people that it's good for the economy I think we can have it and Yeah, that's at this point. I mean we just need to raise public awareness of these things I think that's the best we can do if you if you're in the United States Google Andrew Yang vote for him Whatever you can to help him. He's the best chance America has a thing to quickly I'd put in these solutions these major root cause problems. He wants to give you $1,000 a month To everyone and I think that's that's amazing that someone like that like that is running Floyd always a pleasure brother. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, all right