 This week on the anxious truth, we're going to answer some anxiety recovery questions, including how do I face a scary exposure? Is it normal to have symptoms late in recovery? Which comes first the symptom or the scary thought and others all sent in by the Facebook community. So let's get to it Hello everybody, welcome back to the anxious truth. My name is Drew Lynn Salada. I am the creator and host of this podcast I'm a therapist in training in New York in the United States specializing in anxiety and anxiety disorders I am clearly a podcaster and author and an educator in this community and a former sufferer of anxiety disorders depression and OCD For many years of my life. Welcome to episode 286 of the anxious truth. Today. We're gonna do a good old-fashioned Q&A I asked my Facebook audience to send in some questions over the weekend because I kind of hate Facebook and Therefore I haven't really been paying my Facebook friends must attention or showing them much love in the last year Sorry guys. So this week we're gonna take some questions from the Facebook community And we're gonna do our best to answer them before we get started and germane to today's Q&A theme I have to ask you to take advantage of all of the content that's already out there There are 285 previous episodes of this particular podcast on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube or on my website There's the disordered podcast that I do with Josh Fletcher. We do that every week. We've been doing it for a year That's a disordered FM. There's all of my past social media posts and I have written three full books on anxiety and anxiety recovery So take advantage of those resources because many of the questions that were sent in this week in the Q&A episode were of the How do I overcome or why does this happen ilk and that? Content clearly and repetitively addresses those big sort of foundational questions So if you're kind of new to this and you wanted to ask me, how do I overcome? I urge you to take advantage of all the old podcast episodes Maybe buy one of my books check those out check out disordered watch the videos comb through all of my old social media posts Those questions get answered again and again and again, but even if you did ask that question, you didn't do anything wrong I appreciate you asking just go check out the other resources You'll find everything linked on my website at the anxious truth comm So let's get to our questions. The first question is how do I face a scary? Exposure and the answer to this is that I hate that there's actually no real answer to this I wish there were steps that I could give you but a good place that I think you can start bike because there are no steps I don't have particular step one step two step three for being brave or doing courageous things But I think one of the things that you can do when you feel like I'm going into the exposure Or I'm trying to face my fear and I just can't seem to do it. I can't take that step forward I can't take that leap of faith. I can't let go. I keep retreating. I run. I escape. I don't do it How can I take that next step? What I would urge you to do is Acknowledge that you are in fact scared to do what you want to or need to do in that situation Just acknowledging I'm afraid right now is a good first step and remember that you're supposed to be afraid Some people get a little bit stuck because they're like I need to find a way to be a little bit less afraid So I can take that step forward, but that's not really the way this works Always remember it's okay to acknowledge that you have been triggered into a state where you are afraid But that you are choosing to practice being afraid That's really important because it keeps you from falling into the trap of thinking Oh, I should be able to do this without being so upset or or afraid or uncomfortable No, you're doing it while you are afraid Upset and uncomfortable and you're doing that for a reason so that you can learn that you can handle that That's really important The other thing that I want to mention in terms of like I just can't seem to make myself face the scary exposure or face My fears. How do I do that? Everybody reaches the point where they are ready to take that leap of faith because it does feel like a leap of faith Everybody gets there in their own time and in their own way And ultimately I think it comes down to the point where Not taking the step forward is more painful than the retreat Right. So if you retreat in that moment of fear and uncertainty and you feel like you can't do it You get some instant relief. That is 100 true But then there's some pain that comes after that because all my life is still restricted. I'm not recovering I don't like this. I want my life back at some point For a multitude of reasons that I could never nail down for anybody on the internet because they don't actually know you And it would probably take us days to try and dig into all of those things in a podcast episode For a multitude of reasons everybody gets to the point where they hit sort of that tipping point Where the pain of not facing the fear is greater than the pain of facing it When you get there you may find that things change and again Everybody gets there in their own way for their own reasons and in their own time So I think it's always important to remember that as well Because I think we sometimes forget to mention that We're asking ourselves to do really scary difficult things that require that be we be courageous and brave And that's not normal or intuitive for a human being So there has to be something in there that says no no no I will choose to do this because choosing to not do it Is not acceptable to me anymore and you're going to get there when you get there So you're going to have to be a little bit patient and a little bit kind to yourself And understand that that's not a thing that has steps But it's a good question. It's one of the the basic questions that most people will ask when they say when they start Can you believe that I just got a notification come through? Anyway, when people hear initially like oh, well, I have a problem here because now I have to face my fear This is one of the first questions they will ask But how do you face the fear and that's the answer? I wish I could tell you there are steps for doing brave things But they were simply not So the second question I want to answer is Is it normal to still have symptoms or say scary thoughts even though I'm kind of far down the road in recovery And this was asked in various forms. Some people asked about symptoms specific symptoms some people asked about specific thoughts and What I want to say right away is it's okay sometimes to get some assurance Like assurance is needed assurance is education assurance lets us know that we are on the right path and we can keep going There's nothing wrong with that There's also nothing wrong with looking to the experiences of others Because some people let us this question We're asking about my particular personal experience because we can use the experience of others to help us get over the rough spots Or give us some encouragement or inspire us in some way So if there's never anything wrong with asking questions like this and the answer to the question is yes It is a hundred percent normal. In fact, it's not just normal to have recurring symptoms or scary thoughts Far into recovery. It's actually normal to have those things even after recovery now When you hear me say that do not freak out because what a lot of people will hear when I say that is Oh, no, Drew just told me that I just have to get used to being like this for the rest of my life That is not true. That's that's what you're gonna hear But but let's step back for a second and let's just comment down a little bit What we're saying here is that the primary lesson that we must learn in recovery Is that it's actually okay to have those symptoms and those scary thoughts we can handle it We can allow the triggered state that fear that uncertainty that this comfort to pee can come back down We can work through that. We do not have to change our entire lives. We don't have to avoid We don't have to escape. We don't have to make our lives tiny We can go forward even when we're feeling those things and when you can learn that lesson Which means that you're kind of saying if I had to experience these things for the rest of my life I could when you get to that point Then the happy sort of secondary outcome of recovery Is that they tend to lessen or even go away for long periods of time? Maybe forever it is possible, but it's not guaranteed because even recovered humans or humans that have never had an anxiety disorder Will be triggered into anxious states. They'll have disturbing thoughts. They'll have scary Sensations they'll they'll experience fear and uncertainty and all of those things So it's really important that you not judge the progress of your recovery based on how you feel You really want to look at the progress of your recovery as being based on how you handle how you feel That's important again really good question So let's do question number three and that is what do I do when I'm not anxious and I have no symptoms or thoughts to deal with Well, the first thing I would tell you is do your best to enjoy You've probably earned that because that means that you've been doing a lot of hard work and heavy lifting And you've been brave and you've been choosing to willfully tolerate and surrender to things that you thought you couldn't do So first is if you're experiencing that now as part of your recovery Congrats. Good job. It means you're doing a good thing for yourself. So do the best you can to enjoy it However, the best you can do there is just try to engage in your life as best you can Now a common response to that is well, I want to engage in my life when I'm starting to find little periods of relief But I keep having a thought but it's going to come back But I'll be anxious later the thoughts are going to come back the symptoms are going to come back And the answer is yeah, you may have those thoughts and yeah, especially when you first start to experience those little glimpses of recovery The odds are really high that the thoughts and the sensations are going to come back Maybe in an hour. Maybe in a day. Maybe in a week But remember look at the primary target that you're aiming at in recovery recovery is primarily about learning that virtually all states are permissible And handleable even when they're not desirable So I'm going to repeat that one of the primary lessons of recovery is that all states are permissible and handleable Even when not desirable So if you're not anxious now and you're getting a glimpse of like maybe life as a recovered person That's awesome live as best as you can while not anxious But also simultaneously may be worried that you will be anxious again And if you are in fact anxious later because the symptoms and thoughts kind of came back Then do the best you can to work with that Work on sort of abandoning or stepping away from the need to find meaning in every state or to somehow Manage it all the time. That's a big ask. That's really not fair of yourself You're learning that you can handle all the states that humans experience. So go experience them the best you can So next question which comes first scary sensations or scary thoughts and the answer to this honestly It's a little bit tongue-in-cheek. It's both Now this might be debated hotly if we took a bunch of anxious people and hooked them up to electrodes and slid them into functional MRI scanners We might have a big debate among neuroscientists and folks like that That say well, no, it looks like the sensation first No, it seems like in these people the thoughts come first We don't really know it's both of those things at the same time. That can be true, right? Some people in our community will say that they are triggered by physical sensations Others will insist that they are never triggered by physical sensations only by thoughts and guess what? Both of those things to those different people will feel special And like this is my special kind of trigger. Can you tell me more about that? But really they're the same trigger Both scenarios the thoughts come before the symptoms and the or the symptoms become Come before the thoughts are accurate and valid and for any individual person that might even shift from day to day Or maybe even hour to hour or week to week So that being said both of those things are sort of accurate and valid But does it actually matter because in the end the approach to facing a scary thought is the same as approaching a scary symptom Or a scary symptom triggered by a scary thought or a scary thought triggered by a scary symptom It doesn't matter like maybe just start from the from the statement. I am afraid And go from there. That's a good starting point And that's where you're going to work from anyway regardless of how that presents The sequence of the triggers be they thoughts first or symptoms first or sensations first Is largely irrelevant from kind of that general broad brush point of view that I can give you guys on the internet and a podcast So I hope you found that helpful Let's see. Let's do three more questions How can I be sure that this is just anxiety or could it be a gut feeling that I should follow or my intuition? Well, the answer is you can't no one can ever know that whether you are in a state of disordered anxiety Or a completely non-anxious person or recovered person no one can ever know for sure right you can't so that's Probably the most important part of this answer But when you are sort of in the the grips of a struggle with an anxiety disorder and trying to go through the process of recovery And this in this situation we're talking about anxiety triggered by your own thoughts and physical sensations that are indicative that there might be something wrong gut feeling air quotes and intuition are two things that in my opinion my approach to this Need to be set aside for a while Not forever if you're a big believer in intuition. Maybe it's just part of your culture. Maybe it's part of your faith There's nothing wrong with that but gut feeling and intuition While you're in a state of disordered anxiety is something that I think needs to be set aside because when your body and mind are in that constant cycle of of being triggered and sending out false danger alarms and then dragging you up and down the street against your will and Making you follow those false alarms as if they're not false Then every single alarm is going to give the appearance of Just a strong feeling of intuition my gut tells me that something is wrong here But it's always wrong Like the gut feeling or the intuition when it's driven by disordered anxiety is always wrong So if I lined up a thousand people struggling with anxiety disorders and said how many people here Have felt over and over that their anxiety was was a gut feeling or intuition that they should follow It feels like something is wrong. I really should pay attention to this And then you discovered that that was wrong and it was actually nothing But a false alarm of a thousand people 900 people would instantly raise their hands So if there is such a thing as gut feeling or intuition and I'm not passing judgment Whether there is or there isn't only you get to decide whether those concepts work in your life Disordered anxiety is a thing that's sort of like Just jams jams a monkey wrench in those works and renders them. I'm not going to say useless But far less reliable than you otherwise think they might be So For now you may have to abandon the idea of following gut feelings or intuition And by the way If you decide to turn your back on what you think are gut feelings or intuition that will feel risky reckless and dangerous So let me acknowledge that before you even go into that. That's true. It's difficult But that's what I think you have to do with gut feeling at least for now So let's see. Let's go to our second to last question This is a question about The selfish nature of anxiety and anxiety disorders Several people asked said, you know, my anxiety makes me appear mean or selfish or when I get anxious I take things out of my family and my family is not really understanding of me because I have so many restrictions And I cause problems in their lives because of all of the rituals. I have to do and all the avoidances My anxiety makes me appear very selfish What's up with that? How do I handle that and the answer to that is yes An anxiety disorder is very self-centered. Let me just repeat that the anxiety disorder is very Self-centered it will take all the attention it can possibly get from you It just wants what it wants and it does not care what that costs It is just not interested. So remember that we're talking about the part of your brain That's designed to keep you safe and alive. It has zero interest in your happiness It has zero interest in your romantic relationships. It has zero interest in the dysfunction or health of your family It does not care about your best friend It is only there to keep you safe and alive so that you can theoretically perpetuate the species procreate and do your job In that situation it will follow those instructions at all costs. It does not care about the damage it does So in this situation We can really look at this and say An anxiety disorder is a state that is in fact quite self-centered. It might appear selfish. It might appear mean Some people say my family thinks I'm being mean because I just let my anxiety run rough shot over them Like I don't care about them, but you do. I know you do In fact, if this is a thing that you're struggling with like clearly you do care about that You don't want to impact your family. You don't want to have a negative impact on your friendships or your relationships That's true. That's a hundred percent true The disorder itself can be quite selfish and self-centered and can look very mean Doesn't mean that you are That is critically important in my view of this and again just an opinion I'm just the guy with the microphone here. You can take it or leave it But I like to look at the disordered state or the irrational fear as incredibly self-centered and incredibly mean and Incredibly like all it has tunnel vision It only wants what it wants and it doesn't care what it with that cost But that doesn't mean that you are there's a difference between You and your morals and your values and your core values and who you really are as a person And the disordered part of your anxiety that is just triggering false alarms and demanding that you be safe all the time Those are not the same thing and just because your anxiety is presenting that way doesn't mean that you are mean or self-centered So I did a whole episode of this on this on the anxious truth. It's called it's episode 101 It was done a few years ago But if you check it out on my website or on youtube if you're watching on youtube or whatever podcast app Maybe go listen to that It's a whole episode dedicated to the selfish nature of anxiety and anxiety disorders And it might also be helpful to get some family members or friends or partners to listen to that with you because it kind of explains And maybe they can start to understand also. Oh, that's not my partner. That's not my best friend That's this this is the anxiety disorder speaking And it may help them understand a little bit what you're dealing with and how they can maybe maybe better support you And also can help you maybe open a discussion with them like listen. I know how this looks to you I know how it looks some of it and I talked about that in that episode Some of it is we do have to own that a little bit. Yes. The anxiety is making me things. I wish I wasn't doing Let me admit that I don't want it to be this way So that's a way to open the conversation and maybe check that out again It's episode 101 of the anxious truth speaks directly to this particular question And there's another notification. Sorry guys. I should have turned those off and I didn't Um Google is telling me I have to get out the door because of traffic And so let's wrap up the episode with one more question and this is kind of a big question It's a very overarching question and that is How can I stop doing the things that I do when I get anxious or triggered? Because those things are now causing me problems and I want to stop Excellent question. It's right in the core of the things we talk about in this podcast and I've written about in my books and all of those things We use the word and I want to answer it by framing it in the sort of exposure thing We use the word exposure around here all the time But really I should be using the term exposure and response prevention I should probably never use the word exposure by itself. Why? Because it's the response prevention part that is the most important part of the exposure A lot of people think well, I do exposure. Which means I just do things. I just I'll I'll do the things I still do the things But it's really the part where we Try to not engage in our usual response to a triggered state That's where the magic is and this question is actually somebody asked I get withdrawn I retreat I get in my own head and I just sit and I ruminate and I scan myself And I ignore my family and it's starting to cause problems. How do I stop doing that? Well in this situation If that as an example if that's the way you respond to maybe a panic attack or being triggered You get withdrawn and you isolate and you ignore your family and your friends And you just actively sit and keep tabs on yourself for the next two weeks after you're triggered That would be the response the exposure would be the triggered state And in that situation I have to turn that off. I'm sorry guys. That's that's that's not cool I should have turned it off now. I'm turning it off. Um, so that it stops reminding So in that situation the triggered state is the exposure However, the way it was triggered whether you did an exposure to trigger it or it just occurred naturally because that's the way your life is going Right now that would be the exposure the response prevention is Instinctually I want to retreat. I want to go and sit on the sofa for four days. I want to get inside my head I want to keep tabs on myself. I want to check how I'm feeling. I want to check my thoughts I want to check my body. I want to make sure everything's okay. That's what I want to do that would be my response But if I'm going to engage in exposure and response prevention It means I have to decide to do something different than that So in a situation like that you can't just say, oh, I'll just do something different I'm just going to never do that again. That would never work So you could try to take a different approach and change things just a little bit All I want to do right now is sit on the sofa for for two days And go inward and check on myself to make sure I'm okay But instead I'm going to go out and take a walk with my friend because that's what we had decided today For example And I'm going to do that while all I want to do is be back on the sofa just checking myself to make sure that I'm safe That's a scary thing to do that feels dangerous. That's going to require courage And while you begin to engage in response prevention, you will get sucked into the old responses. That's okay That's normal. We don't get to just turn off a switch and do things totally different overnight It doesn't work that way So recognize that what you're trying to engage in now if you want to stop doing all the things you do in response to anxiety You have to recognize what they are You have to understand that oh this is teaching my brain that it should just keep firing false alarms because every time It does that I follow along with it and I go along with it and I thank it So I had to start to do things different Which means I'm going to feel like I'm taking big risks and doing dangerous reckless things Which means I'm going to have to be sort of brave and and also remember why I'm doing that and what I'm trying to learn And I'm going to just try to change a little bit at a time Just a little bit so instead of sitting on the sofa for the next eight hours going inward I'm going to try and take a walk or I'm going to call a friend or I'm going to do my crossword puzzle I'm going to read my book while my brain is screaming at me But I'm going to start to break that response habit so that I can begin to prevent The response that is helping to perpetuate the cycle There's no fast answer as you could see I gave you a whole lot of words to to answer that question And there's a reason why there were a whole lot of words. It's complicated It's a simple concept, but the execution could be really complicated because it's going to depend on each individual I cannot give you the specific steps on how to stop withdrawing or how to stop scanning I've talked about that in different social media content broad brush general ideas that you can begin to apply But it's complicated But that's generally what you're trying to do to recognize that the things you do that when you are triggered Are your anxious responses and your job is to try to change those responses So that you can learn a new way to interact with and relate to that triggered state that teaches you Oh, this is okay. I don't like this. I don't want it, but I don't have to change my whole life around it Again, that was a whole lot of words. I hope you hung in there. Where are we about 23 minutes or so into the podcast at this point? That's more than enough We'll do this again from time to time from time to time. Maybe I'll ask youtube for questions I'll ask instagram for questions and we'll do these q&a episodes because they seem to be really popular I do like hearing what's on your mind. I will try my best to answer the questions I can't unfortunately answer all of them, but I will try to group them into categories like I did today I don't know if I answered anybody's specific question But I did try to answer Questions that were asked again and again and again and sort of represented them in the questions that I put Forward in this podcast episode. So that is episode 286 of the anxious truth in the books You know it's over because the music If you are listening to this podcast on apple podcast or on spotify or some platform that lets you rate a review Leave a five star rating if you really dig it Maybe take a second and write a review because that means you like the podcast And then it helps other people find the podcast who are looking for help with their anxiety and anxiety disorders And I really appreciate when you guys do that because it does help me help more people Of course, if you're watching on youtube and you're not subscribed to the channel hit the subscribe button Hit the notification bell so you know when I upload videos Like this video if you liked it and if you have a question ask it in the comment section I try to go back at least once or twice a week answer comments on youtube So i'm happy to hear from you guys and uh, yeah, thanks for hanging out today Thanks to my facebook friends for sending in questions this week. We'll do it again. I promise and I hope you find it helpful remember any step Toward what you value today Toward the life you want and away from that reflective irrational fear response Counts no matter how small it is every little step adds up the top of every other little step You can do this. You can get better. I believe in you. See you next time