 So this is a question-and-answer session now, and I wasn't sure where Raymond was going to go with everything So I didn't prepare a list of questions. So I'm here basically we're here without Any props to get started so before we turn it to the audience maybe I'll just look to the the three brothers on my right here to Maybe they have a question or comment to start the conversation with Michael looks like you have a whole list there I Was looking at thinking about this from two angles one is from the leader's perspective and the other is from the non-leaders perspective the rest of the of the brotherhood and The thing that came to my mind and I've heard these kind of comments before of like it's not You know, it's probably proud to try to discern what your gift is or or or the areas that you have to serve It's not proud. It's humble to discern what what God is doing in you and to hear from others and to pursue that in Itself is not Proud it's it's submitting to what God is doing and I mean, I'm sure there's a lot more to say about that Thank You Micah for for that So in my experience in in our fellowship as brother Raymond mentioned We did have some meetings where we sat around and talked about the giftings that we number one believed that we have but then Number two what we see in each other and there was a lot of congruency between The discussion of what each brother saw on himself hit himself and also what the other brothers saw on him though it brought a fuller picture when the brothers Mentioned when the brothers basically Confirmed and expanded the reaches of that of that gift and for me for myself my testimony with that is I found that liberating It gives freedom to serve within that capacity the other angle is is is the context of Ephesians 4 is Is for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry and so that those leaders The goal isn't that that they're finally the leader and people get to follow them and they get to call the shots But that their job is now to to be the chief foot washer to to be equipping all the saints under their watch for the work of the ministry like that being the goal of Of that job the job of the minister so I was thinking about that as well It's how important that is for the for the life of the body I'll make a comment on that The Apostles are called the foundation of the church were built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets and revelation The foundation has the names of the Apostles When you go to look at a new house Nobody exclaims over the foundation Nobody exclaims about the two by fours inside the walls They're looking at the paint and the home decor and that kind of stuff And I kind of think that that's a little bit the role that the Apostles and the elders and some of these people took They were a foundation. They were a framework But everybody else was getting the attention the saints who were ministering on the front lines were getting the attention And there's nothing wrong with that like there's something wrong when that is reversed when the people on the show on the stage are getting all the attention and Yes, I would just encourage that be okay with that Be unrecognized Let the people in the church get the glory Okay, thank you. Thank you Raymond for that. Amen. All right, let's open it up to the audience if you have a question stand up and one of the ushers will bring a mic to you and and We'll field the question. My name is David from Wellesley, Ontario My question is should we be identifying gifts within ourselves or should leadership or others identify the gifts our own gifts So the the question is should we be identifying these gifts ourselves within ourselves or should the church be Identifying them within ourselves Kevin. Do you have thought about that you'd like to share? Well, when I think of gifts, I think the worst thing you can do is is to be doing Something that you're not gifted at If you ever try something to do something you're not gifted at that's when it becomes really clear That you don't have that gift So I think it's actually really easy to identify gifts. I don't think it's complicated I think we're the ones that make it complicated a lot of that times that comes from within our own hearts I think the gift of what is it of being a prophet is probably been the one that's been abused the most Everyone wants to be that prophet that everybody listens to When you go down that road It's probably not your gift It kind of reveals it But I think one of the best things that that elders and leaders and churches can do is to encourage People when you see a they have a gift. I mean There's nothing greater than that. There's nothing more inspirational It'll take a young person and put him on a on a path for life I was encouraged at 18 and It's put a fire in my belly that I've never I've never I've never lost to this day. I just turned 51 yesterday, so I hope I got another 50 years, so Yeah, I think we make it too good too too too complicated is my thought Yeah, my experience in my in my upper teens early adulthood is that The men who were the elders in the church that I was in I had a lot of questions And I have questions about how we did things from from our the mollic on background I was in and a lot of questions, you know Why do we why do we do it this way? And I wanted to understand and and every once in a while somebody would crack and give me an answer But but a lot of the I remember what specifically one incident this one man now looks at me and he goes Hey, you still got what do you say you still got boogers on your nose? You know, I'm like In mid mid 20s, I'm kind of looked at him and I it didn't help me to be more humble It just didn't give me the answers. I was looking for but there was one man Who ended up? Really strengthening and really encouraging the things he saw and it caused me to stop And really think about that and to go to trust him when he saw that something was out of line in my life to really be able to hear him and And I feel like it really helped me to to gain a confident a quiet confidence Where before it wasn't there and so I think in the context of Ephesians 4 especially 11 to 16 is those If if those fivefold ministry if that's if that's the leaders in the church that that the point of that is that those brothers are supposed to be Equipping the Saints for the work of the ministry and so that context seems like it's saying look for these things Look for these gifts But then it's so I my aunt my real simple answer for that you brothers It depends that that's what I that's my my understanding from the scriptures because in Acts when they chose the seven the Apostle said Choose a choose among you these men who meet these qualifications and so I think they're it could happen It could come in different ways I think the leaders I wrote down a note for the leaders raise up your replacements Don't be threatened by those who are coming up and asking questions and and pressing into something raise them up help them help them walk with God equip them help them to walk in humility and And and to learn that quiet confidence in in their ability to serve God Amen, thank you. Yeah, I think it's not an either or I think it's both both and I think it can work with both ways All right, another question. I think there was some more questions here at the front My name is Seth Colt from Oregon I had the question in regards to a comment that was made one of the points was that I'm gonna read it here. I wrote it down In relation to either working together Synergistically or being a spiritual parasite in regards to our giftings and I was curious, you know Hypothetically if you're in a church ministering and and obviously ministering in such a way but apart from the church and not really including your body. Is that what you mean by Parasitically is that is that a? Determined to the body of Christ when you're working Apart from your local body in your giftings or you're referring to someone who doesn't exercise the giftings at all Yeah, I think it could be both so cancer is growing actively, but it's not in accord with the rest of the cells It's not getting its direction from the brain, right? It's it's working its own thing and that reeks havoc and But the others the other side is true too if you have a gift and you're just lax and you're not doing anything I think that that actually subtracts from the energy of the body as well think about if you're sitting in church and and Everybody in front of you is is yawning and you know that it's just the surface is dry like there's something missing there's an energy missing and Don't be that kind of person that's Making that kind of energy in the church a negative energy. I think it really does it can be contagious too You can it can take away the zeal of others, but just like you can be an An inspiration to others by your zeal and it only takes one person sometimes or two people to do that to just Create a whole different atmosphere in a church. I think it can happen that way negatively as well I just I'd just like to say that I think everybody has a gift like I mean I don't want this to sound whatever but they don't think you're special Because everyone has a gift and that's the point of the church And now the secret I think is is developing those skills and Giving everybody a place and a seat and a job to do that's where developing church and The the energy needs to go into and giving everybody a job That's that's when you make headway Just because if us four up here sit around and decide what gifts we have if we can't work together and Make something happen and each get jobs and start to move forward. We wouldn't you know It's not much of a church. So yeah, just learn to Look at each one as a positive Gift in the church because everyone is I truly believe that the script the scripture on that is first Corinthians 12 8 I don't know first Corinthians 12 7 but the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit with all And then it says 4 to 1 is given and then it goes on the different gifts So just it's not just brother Kevin's opinion that every every believer has a gift or gifts Yes, I Kind of a statement and a question how much responsibility or not how much but aren't there more Well, let's just say the parents How much responsibility is it for the parents to find the giftedness in their children? I see the this place is full of children so what What responsibility do they did the parents have of finding that giftedness and encouraging it Like the one brother said when he was 18 years old Looks like everyone's scared to answer here I'll just give you my experience I Have eight children. I Didn't particularly sit around and think about What each of them gift my children has I? spent a lot of time encouraging them and being supportive and building their faith because I think as Children grow up. They did they develop into their gifts As they get older you start to see those gifts obviously But I don't know I just never spent a ton of time Making that my main focus Maybe I did it wrong Yeah, I just that's why I didn't answer right away I thought well, I know what I did, but I can't think of a chapter in verse is Actually, somebody had said no brother Kevin said, you know do things that you're not gifted in well I that's the first thing I do with my children as I really try to help them do all the things that they're not gifted in Because it helps them to be more like Christ And I want them to be well-rounded and to learn to do things, but then Over the years, I've actually been corrected and thought actually it's it's good to help them It was it was the same thing that was done to me I started you to them, but then I started to try to notice areas where they flourished in areas They love to serve and and started pouring cold water on that and and actually watched them flourish even more And we still I still like to have them do things. They don't like to do Serve in ways that they kind of chafe under but that's just character parent things Hello What can we do if anything to inspire and encourage those dead members? Breaks the gospel to them But I guess it depends on if they're really dead or if they're just not active I think an idealistic answer is that Everyone I think everyone wants to serve I could be wrong But I think people want to be needed people want to do things of significance people Want to have a place where they know they're needed maybe the problem is they haven't been given that and Maybe we need to lead by example Number one they need to see us Busy active serving. Maybe they need to be served Maybe maybe in serving them and and actually uncovering what their gift is they could be awakened, but Maybe like Micah said, maybe they're just so dead they need the gospel preach to him I suppose there's a lot of nuance to the answer But it does bring up the point they were discussing earlier that John brought up about about the children and and that is it's easy for parents to Channel your children into supporting you or me and making me look good and all of that it's kind of a scary thing to cut them loose and Support their gifts and their callings and there's there's a bit of attention there because I think both are necessary But there's that there's this there's this transition phase where they go from from being our little puppets if you will to or suddenly their full-blown individuals and and they have to be encouraged released and and Strengthened to to be who God wants them to be but I think that applies to the the dead people in the churches too that need to Wake up. I'd like to respond to your thought there. I don't I mean every time I'm up here I'm always amazed how difficult it is to Respond to people's questions because there's such a narrative that they're thinking of that's hard to know what like you sit here And you go around the ring. So when you say dead, that's a strong statement It's a strong assumption when everybody's parts. I don't know what that definition means to you exactly but the thing that I thought about is The best way to inspire somebody is that you become That best person that you can be and a best example and a witness of God if you're gonna wake the dead That's how it'll be woken not you chasing them down and pounding their doors and screaming at them and Telling them how dead they are To wake the dead If you're alive They'll see that and want to be attracted to it If they're not attracted to you and they don't want the gospel and there are people that don't want it It's okay Let them go. I think there was one over here yet Luke Yeah, I'm Luke Martin. I'm from New York and I have a Question and a comment concerning the question back here as to whether you should wait for the ministry To recognize your gift The comment would be and the question would be how could the ministry recognize your gift if you're not exercising it so Now it seems to me like it's pretty obvious that you need to Exercise what you have and it's very helpful when somebody else recognizes it as well Thank you. Oh, I'm Orion from Queensbury, New York. My question is about New members to the church because if we are Evangelizing and we'll certainly have people come into the church who need To be fed more than to feed there'll be parasites for why you know they've just heard the gospel and that can be a rough transition to go from New believer to active church member, I guess you'd say and I think many churches have different approaches to it Could some of you speak to? How that transition can work is it like after a membership or church or a baptism or is it gradual? Is it sudden is it? They wouldn't have any thoughts on that When I when I think of an if it's talking about a new believer not a church transfer, but a new believer They're babies when I my newborn babies I don't look at my newborn babies and say ah you parasite get out and mow the lawn I think of this is a tender soul that needs to be nurtured and and with its mother and those kind of things I'm assuming that's what you're talking about like like newborn babes in Christ They they take a lot and and our household shifts with a new baby our whole house order changes now My baby our babies don't guide the house They're not the leaders, but so much of the household changes to nurture this new this newborn babe and Yeah, that was the one thing I thought about I Think too, it's a process. It doesn't happen overnight and Paul says to the Corinthians that I think it was after a couple years when he writes the letter to them and says by the time you should have been teachers You're still drinking milk. So he's saying there is actually this time. We can be gracious during this time Expect carnality and immaturity Expect those things that we need to work on but there's a time frame when you need to be working toward You're going to be to be You're changing your life. You're you're you're working through this period of time when Yeah, perhaps it just it's a more of a Intake than it is an output, but I think it must we must keep the focus on turning that the other way Look look for the small ways in which they serve like I'm always amazed after fellowship meal There's always like a church when the church is together for a fellowship meal always amazed at the brothers that just Immediately begin to to pick up the trays to grab the broom and sweep the floor You know those those small acts of service are service nonetheless and they're extremely important And I think that's a place where where new members new people can when they come Or if you are that like it let's say that you are that new member like begin to serve in those small ways Do those little things clean the bathrooms, you know Do the things that nobody else wants to do and doesn't get any glory or credit But just just serve in that way and if you know if if you're not the new member if you're Observing new people coming in look Watch for those signs of service and if you see them actively doing those things like encourage them bless them In that and I think that's how how service grows in the in the church Minister or to teach if you feel like the Lord is calling you to minister or to teach or to lead or do some You know things like that great type gifts And and if you're younger or you're newer in the faith I recommend and encourage Find find a find a floor to sweep find things to pick up find simple ways of service And and it works at deep a depth of humility into your heart to do those things I don't think I don't think Jesus would just saying You know wash your feet like when you're ruling over a bunch of people. That's like washing their feet I think he was showing us the way to to have a foundation of humility in service That's so as one being a leader being a teacher being a speaker or something like this could so easily Elevate us inside But when we're when you're when we're serving when we're doing real practical Service or oriented things. It's easy to say well, I'm a I'm a prophet. I don't pick up trash I'm not the I don't have a gift of picking up trash that brother's got the gift of service But you know, I'll just wait till I can prophesy It's easy to do that But it's better for me and for my own soul to serve in that way And it and it yeah, like I said it works something deep in us to do that I just wanted to make a comment yet about women because I think in our conservative cultures or Anabaptist manites You know people look on us and they say your women don't speak in church They don't do a lot in church and it feels like an oppressive culture But I like to say it's actually the complete opposite When we sit in church on a Sunday morning work together for maybe an hour or two out of the week But God has called you sisters to prophesy as much as anybody else when you go out through the week You've got all week to speak the word of God. You get asked more questions than a lot of us men do God blessed every one of you with that Just feel that that commission that God has given you to speak forth for him. That's prophesying and Do that? Yeah, that's your calling Mothers if you feel like you're too busy to serve the church There's a time in life when you're rocking babies, but remember the hand of rocks to cradle rules the world You're doing one of the greatest services that anybody could do on this earth for the kingdom Amen. Well said brother Amen, I'm sorry. I just want to respond to that that I just think of the sisters who got chained To their to their kitchen tables. Those are the prophetesses. Those were those them who prophesied They were they were busy. They couldn't hold back. They were they were in the market They were meeting with their friends and the gospel was just coming out from their hearts. That's amen Amen Well, I think we're gonna bring this to a close. I think we need to wrap this up. So Thank you so much for your attention. Thank you for your questions. Thank you for your input