 America, the OK Corral, America daily gunfights at the OK Corral here on ThinkTek on American issues take two. And we have our co-host, Tim Apichella. We have our regular contributor, Stephanie Stoll-Dalt, and welcome you guys. Let me go out of order for this show and ask Stephanie to tell the story she just told about the gun march in Washington because I think it's very, very interesting and it appropriately sets the stage for our discussion. I did attend the gun march in the early part of June. I think it was the second week of June on the mall and they had quite a huge stage set up and the star speaker was David Hogg and he himself is from Parkland and has been involved in a school shooting. He but escaped unheard and ever since he was in that high school, he has sworn to do something. He and his fellow students were going to stay on it and not let it go. I think it's been about a dozen years ago and he's worked hard on it. Now he's a Harvard student and he's a very powerful speaker. So he was speaking about what we have accomplished and how there are gains. There are some gains and so it's a matter of knowing that this is hard work and we'll have to continue. So as he was, he finished up and that he had been preceded by other singing songs and other survivors who told their stories. But as he finished up, then the regular MC came back and was going to start into more local stuff and what was going to happen next. And then all of a sudden, well, my friend with me wanted to leave because of various needs. So we started to back out of the crowd and start to walk over to another part of the mall. We were still within the crowd and making our way out and trying not to get in the way of their view line to the stage and to the screen. But then all of a sudden, there was this commotion and people started to run and run past us. And so the immediate response was to run too. I guess this is our herd response. And I found myself running and then some people were dropping on the ground. I didn't hear anything except just general commotion, but everybody was starting to run. As I was just about ready to dive down when somebody from the stage was screaming from the stage, there is no gun stop running. There's no gun stop running. And so people started to slow down in up and go back to a regular pace and disperse and start disperse. Okay, well, stop, stop, stop there. And Tim, let me ask you what, what did we learn from that about public reaction to the possibility of a random attack? Well, that backs up the whole notion of why people want to carry weapons, not just have weapons inside their home, but also carry it in public, either concealed or open carry. It's fear. And what Stephanie was describing was and she said the herd effect, the herd effect is fear. We're human beings, we have emotions and fear is certainly ranks right up there. Sometimes fear is good. And sometimes as Stephanie described, fear can be detrimental. But this feels the whole reason why people, Americans are fear based, thanks to certain media and, you know, TV shows, we're a fear based society. And therefore we think there's a threat around every corner. We think, my God, I can't travel internationally because there's a terrorist on every plane. It's ridiculous. But that's where we're at as our society today. Stephanie, going back to your experience there, that gun march, suppose you had with 38 in your pocketbook while you were running, would have done you any good? That's such a good question, Jay. And I think that is the point that's being made around all of these crises. For the most part, having a gun does not the statistics say it doesn't protect you because nobody uses the gun in an appropriate manner. Or in the worst case, gets the gun turned back upon themselves. So I think that as we go ahead and even talk about the recent events we've had in gun shooting, those with guns were not able to help at all. I want to do that. I want to go back to, you know, some of the recent mass shootings and in PS there are 11 mass shootings every week in this country of ours. That's the backdrop of all of this. So, Tim, you know, we saw yesterday in the news the use of the word random. And it was used in connection with the IRS and it's, quote, random and quote audit of both Andrew McCabe, McCabe, and, and, and, and, and back back a few years ago. And, of course, the other circumstances show that it wasn't random at all that they were intentionally audited serious deep audit by, by Trump, which is really ugly in terms of where the autocrats might take us if they win for office, the corruption of our, one of our most sacred institutions, that is the honesty of the internal revenue service. And PS, the guy who's running the revenue service right now is the same guy that Trump appointed and who was in office at the time of these quote random, uh, uh, audits. But I'm just referring to the word random, because I think random is important in, in this conversation. So if I live in Cincinnati and there is an attack of mass shooting in Buffalo, uh, am I, do I care? I mean, the honest answer for the ordinary person, do I care? Am I going to, am I going to get excited about this and go to Washington and write my congressman, the average person, or do I see the randomness in Buffalo, um, as completely random and not affecting me? I think this is very important in terms of galvanizing public opinion. You can have any number of, um, you know, anti gun organizations around the country, but people only seem to get excited when the random points at them, when they are in the okay corral. What do you think of that? Why aren't people, I hate to use this term and I'm going to use this term. Why aren't people up in arms? You heard it here on think tank. I did. Such a pun. Such a pun, Jay. Why are they not upset? Why are they not? Well, this is true for, um, anything that occurs in life. It's always the other guy, not me. It's not affecting my family or my, my immediate neighborhood or my immediate community. But if you watch all these shootings in these rural areas, in these cities, the first thing I said, or they do say is I would have never imagined this could happen to our town or our city or are this still in the blank? Um, it's, it's disassociation. It's always the other person. And I think a lot of, you know, the need for people to, um, have a gun on every street corner and in every pocket and in every car, um, glove box is that need for, you know, again, as I've already said, it is a fear based thing, but it's, um, it's extrapolating, if you will, it's the some to more argument. Some of this crime takes place here. Therefore, it's going to happen everywhere in America. And so you, you look at the some to more argument and it's, of course, it's faulty. I mean, you could poke holes all through it. But that seems to win the day on a very superficial and generic basis. No one questions that argument. They ought to. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, maybe it's a matter of, am I my brother's keeper? I mean, I think there was a time I wasn't around necessarily, but there was a time when we cared about what happened in, in the next city in the next state over. Um, you know, that time might have been around the time of my favorite musical, the music man, which is an expression of American caring, the American, the development of the American ethic and the, what, early 20th century in rural America. But you know what, it strikes me that part of this, I don't care about what happens in Cincinnati is part of a drift, a cultural drift in the United States, where we really don't care what happens elsewhere. I'm reminded of a guy that I had a conversation with back in 2017. And we were talking about Trump's tax reform act that he, he pushed through Congress. I mean, he just pushed it through Congress without any hearings or anything. And I took the position that for the country, it was a really terrible bad bill. And it is, it was and it is. But this fellow said, no, no, no, my company is going to get a big refund. So as far as I'm concerned, it's a great bill because it helps me. And I saw you only interested in you and your company and your refund, those who care about the country. And he said, and he's a smart guy and all this, he said, no, I don't. I care about me. I care about my company. I care about my refund. Isn't that the American ethic? And I said, no, it can't be. We have to get together on this, we have to care about each other. Do you see in all of this, you know, not caring about what happens the next town over, not worrying what happens in Buffalo as part of a drift away from caring? Stephanie? Oh, you know, what you're saying to me is that the corporate attitude, I mean, that that's, you know, capitalism, you know, so maybe he was speaking out of that side of his head, but I want to point out that, and looking around a little bit at the news today on this, Texans are the majority of Texas, according to the latest polls, want gun control. And only 14% are interested in loosening gun control. And 28% are really great with what's going on. They like what it is now, and they don't want to loosen it. They do not want to loosen the gun control. So I think that maybe the this this lack of empathy is not is just calm down because we're so we have so much of it, that people are not in an outrage unless they're actually involved in it. And people are now maybe operating at a different level, where they will go and vote when we get the chance to vote for this. And then on the other hand, everybody's grown, many people have grown up around guns. I mean, I went to high school in South Texas again. I and everybody had guns and I mean, but there weren't any ARs or anything. But you know, it was not a nobody paid any attention to that were just guns. And they never got misused at that time, even among the high school people I was with. So I just think it was a living in the culture. I think people think that we're safe if you're in that culture and know how that culture works. But it's all been changed because of the introduction of the assault, the assault rifles and also these people. Well, it's more I think, you know, when you went to high school, and I'm not I'm not going to discuss on the air when that was very early days of the NRA. And in the very early days of the NRA, you know, they would they would talk about gun safety. And you come and have classes about gun safety and I shouldn't, you know, do silly things with your 22 rifle. There were no assault rifles at all. And so there have been, you know, dramatic changes in the availability of these guns. And, and the of course, the NRA boy, the NRA 180 out from where it was when you and I were kids. But you know, but the thing the thing, Tim, is we are living in this okay, Corral where these events happen 11 times a week. They happen at random all over the country. They happen with, you know, deaths of all these people who never get to talk about it. You know, history is told by the survivors, not by the ones the victims who were killed. And so my question to you, Tim, is over the past few years, and especially during the Trump administration, we have seen a dramatic increase in gun violence and assault rifle gun violence and mass killings in school killings. It's extraordinary. What as a country have we learned from watching this every day? I'm many times, you know, it's like two a day, every day, we mean, I see all of it in the paper. But every day, what have we learned? Well, it's what we haven't learned. And, you know, remember, we had a 10 year assault weapons ban. And there was a correlation statistical correlation to the decrease of murders and in mass shootings that went down as a result of that weapons ban. You know, Mitch McConnell did say something I didn't have the issue with, believe it or not, for the first time. And he said, we have a huge mental illness problem in this country. Yeah, that's obvious. Because almost everyone that is, you know, conducting these mass shootings, they're mentally ill. The problem is how do the mentally ill gain access to these assault weapons? What about mental illness? What about mental illness in the Senate? Yeah, well, that's obvious. Look at green. Marjorie Taylor Green. I mean, that's that's a, that was a setup question, Jay. That was a rhetorical question. But I'm saying this, you know, even the Republicans should realize that, yes, mental illness wins the day with a lot of lot of troubled use and a lot of troubled individuals in this country. Why not stiffen and toughen up background checks to include strict mental background checks to really, really toughen up the red flag laws that make it so much easier to to notice someone who's having some issues, and they have access to assault weapons. Why not do that? I mean, yeah, I know the NRA tells them don't think about it. But you know what, strike out from the NRA, grow a set and do something about it. Well, you know, the father of the latest shooter on the fourth, you know, he they had problems, but he actually filled out the void, the firearms ownership registration card for his kid. And he's now kind of sheepish, sheepishly saying that maybe there are a few problems. But that what you're up against there is how would you like it when somebody walked up to you and said, you know what, your son is really goofy. And I think we're just going to have to take him under control here and report him. Yeah, people, we don't have the tools. We don't have the system set up. We don't have the diagnosis of reliability or validity for making these kinds of of statements about people and putting them in that situation. And that just it's just we're not actually going to take a little exception to one of that statements that you made, Stephanie, we do have the capability. And during Homeland Security, if there was a terrorist suspect, all agencies were alerted to it. There was a communication process. That doesn't apply to background checks and people who are applying to get a weapon, or not even have to apply for a weapon. They just can get one to loopholes and gun shows and all that stuff. Well, the new the new law, we do have the system in place. It's do we have the money and the willpower to transfer that sophistication of background checks to the gun, the gun issue? Are you saying or either of you saying that the system we have in place is adequate? I'd really like to hear an answer on that. I'm not saying that. Nobody says that the bipartisan Safer Communities Act law that was recently passed in June has now put 750 million on the table for more education and training in in the extreme risk protection that that's needed most of the time, otherwise known as red flag loss. So there there is that's a big gain in that bill that was recently passed. So there's a bunch of money to make that happen. And that and it hasn't and they agree that there isn't enough out there that enough training or enough education or enough practice with thinking about applying the red flag loss. And we've got to get much, much better at that. Okay, I'm saying, Jay, what I'm saying is we have the capability that capability actually isn't used as it pertains to a terrorism or would be terrorism acts in this country. We just don't have the the capability or the financial resources to transfer that that technology and that and that energy towards background checks and gun safety. We just don't we don't choose not to do that. Yeah, well, you're not talking about the divisiveness in the country. It has some people don't want any gun control at all, including those on the Supreme Court of the United States of America. And in the Senate, they just don't want any gun control at all. Well, I mean, Thomas, I think I think we're going down the street about, you know, okay, mental illness and safety checks, and, and, you know, red flag laws and all the things and they've been in discussion lately. But I want to suggest to you that maybe all of that is is is is soft, soft. And what we really need is a strong gun control policy. Now, in this, in the country of New Zealand, I think it's New Zealand, a few years ago, they were concerned there were too many guns. And by the way, there were only a few guns compared to this country. And they said, we're going to buy them back. We're going to pay you fair value for every gun. And, and we'll give you money, send you a check for the gun. And if you don't sell it back to us, we're going to put you in jail. So it's a good deal. Honestly, it's good deal. Why don't we do that? I mean, if I were king, I would say we cannot tolerate even one school shooting, even one crazy shooter. All of these soft steps are not really going to help us in the long term, because people don't abide by them. Because in fact, on a daily 11 times a week basis, they don't really work. And so we need really strong steps to stop every single mass shooting there is. And that means get all the guns out of circulation, every bloody one of them. Why can we do that, Tim? I wouldn't I wouldn't support it. As king, would are you going to guarantee every rural community that has no police force or a police force that's an hour away or half hour away? You're going to guarantee that community that there's no crime? I'm telling you right now, the reason people own weapons is to protect themselves in the absence of any active police force interceding before the crime takes place. I'm one of them. I do not believe that, you know, that a police will be there on my front door to stop a perpetrator from breaking in my house and doing God knows what. So it's up to me. Wow, we haven't actually heard that on the show before, but now we know. Stephanie, you know, you grew up in Texas. Do you agree with him about that? Well, I'd like to give a shout out to a father of a shot teenager son in one of these high school students who I think has a real true answer that is perhaps more powerful if we could do it, then find the guns back because I think as Tim says in this country, people are not going to be as amenable to that as they were in. Was it Australia? They did that too. I think both, but New Zealand comes to mind. And by the way, it succeeded. It was successful. Yes, it's absolute and it's fabulous. So yes, I'd love to do it, but I don't see that that's got much traction for now. Maybe it will, but this man said and he wanted attention. I'd like to give him some attention for it. He said what we need to do is not take our kids to school. Let keep kids out of school. I got a better one. Let's go a step. Let's go step back. Let's not have kids. Well, no, that we wouldn't have a problem here. We're talking about every we've already done it for the pandemic. We already know how to keep the kids out of school. Everybody's done it. And if the whole nation got it together and most of the kids that were not in school, how long would that go on? Okay, what are you saying? Let's get rid of schools. No, we're saying out of school until you pass a law that will stop school shootings, protest, no ARs or whatever test your description. Well, that's an interesting idea. But what about the truant officer? I know they have them in Texas, who comes around and and gets your kid takes them to school. Well, this is a national protest for the door. I think this is as good as it gets. I think we could make make something happen if that man's idea would get some traction in the country and just have the whole nation have a stop attending school until you make them safe. And there's only one way to make them safe. And that's get the guns out. Okay, all right. Okay, get the guns out. So let's assume there's a national protest and people don't send their kids to school until something happens. Of course, you know, there are 330 million people in this country, not all are going to agree on exactly what should happen before they send their kid back to school. But let's let's again, make you the monarch here at them. What should happen before you send your people send their kids back to school? Exactly what what in the court, including the Supreme Court of the United States of America? And and the Senate, what should happen? What kind of rules and well, great question, it's hypothetical, but it's a great question. And I suspect that it would be similar to what we have here in Hawaii. And that is if you feel the need to have a to open carry or conceal permit to carry, you better have a really, really great reason because you're not going to get to permit to do so. And if you're caught concealing or open carry, there's going to be heavy, heavy criminal penalties. So it's it is access. I mean, there's a correlation. It's a cause effect. Access to guns will relate to more more shootings. That's just that simple. I'm not a big proponent of allowing people to carry guns on the open street, nor concealed unless you have a real good reason. Like, you know, from 12 o'clock, I take a bag of diamonds, and I go from this location back to to my safe deposit box. I need a weapon in case I'm someone's gonna try to steal my bag of diamonds, or your your private detective, or your, you know, your policeman, that you know, off duty, you may need to act as a policeman off duty. My friend was a police chief, he always carried a gun. And of course, there's areas where you can't carry a gun. And he didn't. Actually, to get on that point, sorry to make a little left turn here. But in Justice Thomas's opinion, he recognized that guns are not always suitable to all places. And that would be courts and schools and state capitals and voting facilities. He said there's something called sensitive areas or set sensitive places. Now that's a broad category. And I'm hoping that Hawaii and other states will say, Well, we're gonna also include bars, we're gonna include stadiums, we're gonna include sporting events, and the list could go on of what constitutes a sensitive area. So that's how the states I think are going to try to address this Supreme Court decision as far as New York, and opening that law up for gun carry. Why is it a similar circumstance with regard to there very much in the circumstance. And I think what you can see is a heavy, heavy emphasis on training, not only how to use the gun, but when you are allowed to use a gun, what what constitutes a threat, be certainly mental background checks, fingerprinting, all sorts of stuff that's gonna be a gun only to perceive them as onerous and cumbersome, too bad. Well, you guys, when do I send my kid back to school? What will satisfy you? Well, first of all, we're talking about a general category of guns. I think that the nation is committed to guns, some kinds of guns. The issue is the assault weapons. And we had that law on the books. And that expired, and that Congress did not re up it. And if we could get that law re up that you cannot purchase an assault rifle, ie, AR, I mean, they are that what those do to people. It is just unacceptable. Well, there must be somebody has a reason. There must be somebody has a reason for wanting or permitting an assault rifle. And I wonder if you could take a little of our time here today, and tell us what those reasons are. I see no reason for a war, a weapon of war that you would use in warfare. Are you trying to say it's ridiculous to have ordinary citizens carry assault rifles around? Absolutely. I think we ought to go back when I was in high school. We didn't have a soul. You can have your rifle. You can shoot the javelina. And my God, the snakes, you know, the poisonous snake needs to be shot to every now and then. So we have, we have lived with guns. And we've lived with guns in reasonable ways. In fact, in the West, in the West in Dodge City, their gun laws were tougher than what we've got now. Marshall Dillon didn't put up with this. He was grabbing people's guns all the time. Okay, okay. So I think that we need to be or, you know, the other saloon, as you walked into the saloon, and there was a place where you'd have to hang your gun right a little hook, have to hang your gun before you came in, shoot you. I think that we need to be more specific and and be reason reasonable about the variety, the diversity of American experience and thinking and can and values about gun ownership. And you know, we're stuck on it. I don't hear it. I mean, if I had a kid who, especially in Texas, I'm not sure what would satisfy me. I'd be I'd be pretty tough about that. I want Congress to take affirmative action. And the dishwater bill that was signed about a week or two ago is dishwater, I'm sorry. And the action of the Supreme Court was, you know, on the flip side of that much, much worse. So right now, where, what is it? We're we're naked, we're going naked. We really don't have reliable gun control in this country. So my question to you, Tim, is what is going to happen? As Stephanie says, we have a gun culture, we have shootouts, it's the okay corral 11 times a week. Is that number going to decrease increase? I mean, if you take all the regulation away, if you let people carry with or without permits, if you you know, I mean, when is the last time you heard of somebody being arrested for carrying a gun? Those days seem to be over. Now, I mean, even if it's against the law, who arrests anybody? What police forces are resting? What prosecutor is arresting people for simply carrying a gun? I'm not sure anyone is. I think we moved across the Rubicon here. And it's a free for all. But my question to you, Tim, and I don't mean to make it easy is where's this past going to lead us? Well, it's gonna lead us to more okay corrals, particularly when we have a polarized nation based on a number of social wedge issues, and tempers are hot. And the more you're allowed to carry a weapon, the more the likelihood it's going to be used in haste and in on the, you know, the passion of the moment. And I hate to say it, but it's needless. It doesn't have to happen. And I agree with Stephanie, I agree with you that there is no functional purpose for an AR 15 to be carried. I don't even think there's a need for an AR 15 to be used in the household. But that's a whole another issue. But we're gonna have more, we're gonna have more intimidation, we're gonna have more violence. Just to offset the story, I talked to a gentleman who lived in Tucson, Arizona. And he takes a different viewpoint. He said, Everyone in Tucson carries and there's no crime, because everyone knows the other person has a weapon, and it could be used. So therefore, people think twice before they start a confrontation with somebody, because they know even women carry a little peace shooter in their purse. And they said, So people avoid conflict. I don't think I buy that. I don't think I buy it on fact or policy. Yeah, I don't think I buy it either. But that's how people who want to have this law enacted. That's that's kind of where they're coming from. Well, but do we should we build that into our national policies, Stephanie? Because in fact, you know, the recognition of the red, what do you call it, the red line law, red flag law, and the need for, you know, addressing mental illness, those things recognize a an essential element of the human condition. That is, we are mammals. And we get as Tim says, we get excited, we get emotional. And when we do, we get murderous with or without a gun. And don't forget the case of Vincent Chin, who was beat to death by the baseball bat because he was Asian. And ultimately, the people who did that to him really didn't suffer at all in our legal justice system. But but you know, the justification was I got really excited, really angry. And I felt I had to kill him. And so if you have a national population with that particular flaw, and we recognize it does exist for a number of people who knows how many, then we are going to have mass shootings and deaths and killings, simply based on an inability to control your emotions. Well, the bipartisan, safer communities law is, you know, funding and and promoting understanding of how they work and the provision for an extreme risk protection act by police or judges that where they can take weapons away from people because it is known that there there is an extreme risk for them to have have a weapon. So I mean, I think we have got some some things to work with in that what she says a pretty milk toasty law. But that's what we could get through. And they've they're they're shouting it out that it's bipartisan. So we've got a bipartisan effort here to toughen up some of the red flag laws and and others background checks for gun gun buyers. And some of these are already on the books in in states and even in states where they're on the books like Illinois where that Fourth of July shooter was they they they're not known about or they're and people are not educated and able to work with them as well as they should have done with with somebody like that that shot those people on the Fourth of July. So over the over the years over recent months, especially Tim, we have talked on this show and your show about the possibility of violence in this country and and as we get closer to November and you know the way the divisiveness will express itself and the lack of full and failed voting will express itself in November. There's a possibility of violence. What role does gun control play in the you know the realization of that violence? Well, thanks to Supreme Court decision less. I mean, it's a perfect storm. This couldn't have happened at a worse time because now people feel emboldened to open carry open carry wear on the street. What if it's a political rally? I don't think Justice Thomas took a political rally as a sensitive place. I don't think he defined it as a sensitive place, so it's fertile grounds for someone to show up at a political rally with an AR-15 as long as it's not concealed or a Glock 17. It's it's really bad timing. That's that's my answer. Yeah, that's why you're you're you're you're done control meeting that you spoke about in Washington. Stephanie is so touching. It's just as just as well. There could have been a shooter there. Sure. Just as well. It could have been something like the Las Vegas incident a couple of years ago. Well, it was televised. It was a perfect opportunity for somebody with those needs to expect that. We can expect it at a parade on July 4th. We could expect it at a political rally by somebody who doesn't necessarily agree with what's being said at that rally. I mean, this is coming down the block. I mean, the other thing I want to mention, we haven't talked about what we should before we close. Not only do we have a gun, you know, gun control problem in a gun culture in the country. We have an ongoing exacerbation of that in our entertainment. In other words, I give you five hours of entertainment every day or more on cable and everywhere on the network channels of movies that are filled with with gunshots, filled with guns, filled with guns. We're all experts in all these guns and shooting people up, usually on the basis of violence or hatred. And, you know, it's pulp fiction is what it is, but it surrounds us. It immerses us. And I think for a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people, it has the effect of making them extol the violence and embrace the vengeance and the hatred and say, well, this is justified. And in any event, if I'm a good guy, I'll go to the hospital and they'll make magic medicine on me. And I'll be I'll be walking around in two hours. Quite something that we have a culture that accepts embraces all of that. And that's got to be a factor in the way people think about guns and the way that they think about using guns and the acceptance of motivations for using guns. And we're getting that. We're getting it every single day. In my observation, it is exacerbating the problem. Do you agree? I do agree. I think they've shown time and time again, the psychological profile of a lot of these shooters, a huge component of that is they're watching these shooter videos. It's not just TV shows. It's the videos that basically put you at the hand of the gun and you're shooting either cops, zombies or anything in between. And you look at Columbine. They were the first one to have a psychological profile of watching shooter videos. So your point is not incorrect at all. I remember in high school doing a speech on the correlation between TV violence and violence in society. And though it's hard to draw one to one correlation, a reasonable, educated person could say, yeah, there is a correlation. And one other point before we go, and that is the fact that when these mass killings, the mass murders happen in Valdee and Buffalo, in Highland Park, in Florida, I mean, all over the country, it's like pin the tail on the map, always at random on the press, eats that stuff up. And depending on how bad it is, you know, you could spend your whole day every day and your whole week and your whole month watching. And as it gets worse and there are more of them, there's more time dedicated to examining what happened here, what was the shooter like, what kind of a weapon. And by the way, we're not only talking about the what you call assault rifles that the one used in Highland Park was a Smith and Wesson 1530 clip or semi automatic, I think it was. So there's a lot of guns that that fall in the assault weapon category that are not the classic assault weapon that are made by big companies, not only the was it the Daniel company, but also Smith and Wesson, which is otherwise a very long term company. Anyway, to get back to the point, and this is something you talk about all the time to him, the press is deliberating the stuff. It's like it's like Bonnie and Clyde. We like them. We like Bonnie and Clyde. And we, we can move like the opposite of can move my shot and Freud shot and Freud is you know, to revel in the misfortune of others, German word. And, and, you know, I think that the press provides news and works that news over and over and over again. Every time there is a mass shooting, is this contributing to the gun culture? Stephanie, I think it's contributing to those who are fantasizing, having these disaster fantasies about going and doing that sort of thing. I think there's a, there's a show that has no guns in it. And yet the largest challenges are placed upon the humans within in the show situation. And may I invite you to much naked and afraid. And they're out there having to find something to eat. They don't even have a gun to hunt with, you know, so that's the place to go. It is possible to be in a world without the gun. And it's just occurred to me that that that's a place where some very macho people go at who are trying to show that they're strong and brave and they can overcome anything. And they're doing it without a gun, America. You don't need a gun. There's, okay, well, let's go and let's go to a final comments. And Tim, I assume you're going to cover that last point about the press also. No, actually, I'm not okay. Okay, well, in that case, let's go to your final comment now. My final comment is three things. One, Ben, Ben all assault weapons to perform rigorous mental and criminal background checks. And three, use common sense when you're passing gun safety laws. I'm trying not to say gun control because half of this country doesn't like the word control. It is about semantics. Gun safety laws need to be enacted and start with the ban on assault weapons and rigorous, rigorous background checks. And add some judges to the Supreme Court. Did I hear you say that? All right, Stephanie, your turn. I'll certainly reiterate your last point, Jay. And I agree. I think Tim has got the magic list that we need to start checking off. And I think we we we can do it or we need to keep the kids out of school until the Congress acts on it. And also, there's the matter of the ammunition. How about let's cutting that off? I think some countries have done that. You don't get any ammunition. So you can have as many guns as you want. There's no ammunition, okay, except under extreme circumstances. So there's lots of ways to go with this. And then there's also naked and afraid. Okay, well, we really covered all the ground here. Thank you very much, Tim Tim up and jealous, Stephanie Stolls- Alton for very discussing and far a far ranging discussion of the subject. I'm sure that by the time we meet next, there'll be more to discuss in terms of mass mass shooting. Aloha, you guys. Stay safe. Thank you so much for watching think tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktecawaii.com. Mahalo.