 be doing all this but then this needs to be some diversion. So the best way to do is to try and learn something new or something different. Now this is actually part of an initiative because and I decided that we must go back to basics on the law. So earlier we did the will, we did part of succession. So this is another initiative to take it back and that's part of now land as you know is pervades almost every aspect of our lives and land records is the most one of the most important parts but I intend not to make it into a lecture for lawyers but I'll try to make it as simple as possible even for the layperson to understand what is the record of rights, why the record of rights and why does he need to understand the record of rights. I'll start with why the record of rights I would just for a moment just say the Jammu Mandi which is the most crucial document when you go to buy a property, when you go to sell a property, when you go to lease a property, when you go to take a loan, you may have a sale deed, you may have a mortgage deed, you may have anything but all this has to be reflected in the revenue record and therefore when you go, you start looking for the revenue record not as yet just wait for a little while, no screen share is yet. So therefore the reason for you to all of you to understand what happens is you go and look at a Jammu Mandi but then you forget to look at the Jammu Mandi prior to that or prior to that or even go back maybe five or 10 Jammu Mandis because that's where the lineage of the person comes or the place where he purchased it or he got a decree in his favor. So all these things are necessary but slowly, slowly we seem to be forgetting the significance of land records. Now all land records land in the state of Punjab and Narendra and at that at one time it included Delhi, Himachal as well as Haryana of today's Haryana. All land records starts from the Punjab Land Revenue Act 1887. 1887 is the year of reckoning for land records prior to that there were records, there were land records and the East India Company was ruling India before 1857 before the Crown took it on and their endeavor was to generate income from the land and use it to spend for themselves and of course send it back to England also. So this was the best method they devised that is land revenue. So first understanding is that these land records are actually not documents of title, please understand they are not indefeasible documents of title. They are only evidence of title to which a presumption of truth attaches. I'll explain that as we go on. So this process of making land records actually began in 1848 in the northwest frontier province which is now the unruly part of Pakistan and eventually in India today's India it began in district Mbala as it then was in 1848 approximately they were almost the same time. So we came to this there were a lot of preparations and they were changed, they were dropped, they were things were added and things were subtracted and eventually after about two or three settlements in fact these settlements even continued after the act, they continued till about 19 also. So eventually they began to perfect the system of land records and under this act of 1887 every village in the states of Punjab, Haryana, Naohi Marchal and Delhi has a separate hadbhas number means a boundary number it's like the number of the village it's called the hadbhas number. Can you please share the map of the village, screen share the map? Yes sir we are doing the first map the Jammah the map of the village. What caption has it been given? It says what is it, what is the caption? Field map of village. Field map of village. Yeah we have got it, we have got it. Just share it so that everybody is familiar with what I'm trying to say. Now each village has a special number assigned to it. So when you talk of a village and when you describe your property also you will find lots of time written H dot B dot village Rampura means hadbhas number it's and no in the state there'll be no other village with that number it's like an identification mark for the village. Now this is the village this is a village it's called the field map of a village now every village is divided into basically into two types of land one is cultivated land and one is uncultivated land. The uncultivated land is called it has various names but the major part of it if you look at this I think my internet connection is giving some in this semicircle is fine this is called the abadi de this is called the abadi de it is not abadi abadi de for those who are in Delhi and other cities of the this thing apart from the Punjab cities or the Haryana cities in fact Gurgaon also this is the Lal Dora why I'm saying so is that this is also the Lakshman Rekha for the revenue authorities they cannot enter this area demarket this area I'll just explain to you why this is the abadi de where the village residents of the village live so now today since they did not enter it you have if you go to Delhi you have all these areas around Meroli and Shahpur Jart and all where your village is still existing why because the abadi de of the village is called the land within the Lal Dora where there is no land record and the person in possession is owner now why does this come because under the land revenue act they had a section if you can okay don't share that for the timing let me because I'll be going to this under section three and four of the act the act itself says if you can have three and four if you can have four actually then nothing in the act applies to land which is occupied by the site of a village so the land revenue act does not apply to land which is within the site of a village which is the abadi de so the abadi which I'll come to you later is excluded from the jurisdiction of the revenue officer that means the Patwari or the Kanugo or the Tassildar will not make any entry there'll be one Khasra number one pivot I'll just come to all that so this is the first part we can put the map back please I think your live streaming didn't come on so if you can put the map back Mr Jartar because I'll explain everything from the map itself yes thank you now if you look at this map I've just explained to you what is this lal dora and what is this this area so this is the lal dora and here is the abadi de now please do not confuse the abadi de with abadi abadi means just a house abadi de is which is within the lal dora all right now these if you see these rectangles etc going around all this stuff you can see various parts of the of various things which exist you can see a railway line you can see you can see so so many other things here there's the railway line you can see rastas you can see baseline you can see the road you can see the pond and there is something known as sahadah in the left hand corner slide there these are the village boundaries and you'll be surprised there's even a process in this in the rules for how to make a seertha and the burjis then you have the there that side so this is a replication of a map of a village with all these things going through you have the cremation grounds you have the mandir you have the pond etc so all these things are there now how is this divided why are all these rectangular things over there what happens is before consolidation took place there's to be uneven numbers so once this rectangular system was implemented each rectangle if you will see if you can just zoom it a little somebody can you zoom it a little so that it's visible to everybody there are many there are very many numbers below which there is a double line or as you put it double double line you can just see like if you can come to 21 here if you come to 15 there's a double line below that now that number represents the rectangle number rectangle number which is created by the revenue authorities that's the rectangle number like 15 14 13 if you go towards the left then this 16 that's the rectangle number why this is a thing I'll explain to you why it's important it is this rectangle which then has within it each rectangle consists of 25 acres this may not be interesting but this is an interesting statistic and each of these numbers is a separate khasran number measuring eight canals this you need to understand eight canals and 25 numbers and it goes spiral it goes like numbers are loaded spirally from left to right it goes as a spiral it goes and therefore in the middle in the 13th number it's actually a very scientific process and very easy the 13th number will have the rectangle like 15 will be the 13th in this rectangle so that's how land records are mentioned now this is the rectangle number 15 around it is 14 that is the khasran number so you will always find written 15 double slash 14 so lots of people get confused actually in the in revenue terms it's called very difficult to pronounce because we're not familiar with all these terms anymore so it's called mustatil number 15 khasran number 14 15 16 like that and each one is eight canals but then sometimes they're lesser also those also have a word which I'll explain to you lever it's called a jazby number so therefore trying to keep it as simple as possible so each one has 24 each rectangle now 15 will have 24 khasran numbers in it I hope if there are any questions on that please ask me those questions at the end just keep on putting it in the chat box and I'll I'll try and answer everything now if you look at if you look at this on the right side of the screen where the abadi there is just below the mandir these are called numbery plots mean they are not part of the revenue record but they've been kept maybe for extension of abadi or rudies or various various things where they will store their cow dung they will store firewood this is all that so the village actually is a microcosm of society and takes care of everything there's a pond there are toilets there are there's a cremation ground so each village has everything and there's even area for extension of an abadi so what we have done today in cities was done in villages more than more than a few centuries ago so this is the microcosm of our towns today all facilities were provided here unfortunately this doesn't mention everything it was even for kumhar even for the person who made leather goods everybody had a space for him in the village so the village were a self-sustaining community based on on their on the work they did or whatever they perform now coming to the record of rights which we've been saying that we'll be revisiting the revenue record now this is can you just switch this off can you just remove this yes so now that was the site plan I may come back to it later if the need so rises but then we have something called the record of rights now the when the when the East India Company came and the British came here they needed to determine who is the owner of the land who is going to pay the who pays the rent who tells the land what is the nature of the land how much is the produce coming out because they need to make projections also that will it be a in a good year this will be the produce they'll have to arrange for drought in a bad year this is going to happen whatever it is if it's going to be a drought they have to arrange for that water what's the source of water so they fortunately for us I mean they did a good job on this they gave us a complete record of the nature of the land the type of the land various nomenclature they maintain the nomenclature which had been coming right from a long long time for the last almost 700 years before they came in they maintained those nomenclatures but they made this record of rights so as to be sure as to who is to pay and all lawyers on this group would try and understand a little and even who are not lawyers there was no distinction at that time between courts and officers so one day an officer sat as a judge and next day he sat as a revenue officer so he could pass orders there was a lot of confusion everywhere in in land records etc so that is why the need for settlements that's why the need for doing this all over again so then comes the land revenue act which section 31 can you please just put up section 31 of the land revenue act section 31 subsection 2 this is what you call that from here arises the jama bandhi when you go to purchase land even in places like delhi and then if you want a mutation then they make an entry for you I'll just come to that also which is that section in delhi delhi has a separate land revenue act now a marchel has a separate land revenue act and other than the Punjab Act but they all draw from the Punjab Act okay I'll do that so because I just wanted everybody to just read it quickly subsection 2 contains the basically A is the persons who are landowners tenants or assignees of land revenue we didn't go into that so what it means is landowners tenants or assignees of land revenue we didn't go into assignee of land revenue means who is to pay the land revenue you can assign the land revenue if you so like also and the nature and extent of their interests what is the ownership the nature of the ownership conditions and liabilities rent land revenue rate cesses and other payments etc so this will be the description of the owner with all along with his obligations his rights whatever whatever is there this is called the jama bandi so section 31 to A is the jama bandi the description of the jama bandi now I think this is a word familiar to almost everybody because you either may have tried to purchase land or your own land or your sole land or you purchase something then we have a second document called a statement of customs respecting rights and liabilities in the estate now every village had its separate customs it has its had its separate communities it had Muslims it had Hindus it had Sikhs it had Brahmins it had Banyas it had everything and everybody's customs were recorded in this document basically this is a document in if you look at it the terminology in Urdu or Persian is wajibul arz it's called wajibul arz this he's put up you put up section 3 if you can come to 31 straight down here 31 please stop stop stop stop this to A is the jama bandi B statement of customs respecting I've written in hand wajibul arz okay then comes to map of the estate the entire estate the map I just showed you it's called shajra kistavar sorry they're little tongue twisters but I like to speak these words because it helps me also in repeating them and on the side I've written the word akshajra my writing is a little bad akshajra now if anybody is familiar with Urdu shajra means map kistavar means estate aksh means a copy if you're familiar with the aksh aksh means a copy or reflection actually so even in Urdu ghazals and Urdu poetry the word aksh is used very often about the reflection so akshajra the copy which you get from the revenue record is aksh is called an aksh so whenever you want a copy you must get the shajra kistavar so as to see the location of your land and then the akshajra what everybody does is you get the akshajra they'll give you your land but you won't know whose land is on the left whose is on the right where is it so therefore please go and apply for a copy of the akshajra but try and get the shajra kistavar they will tell you it's a huge document we can't give it you so no no please do give it you must keep this with you if you have agriculture land or you intend to purchase or you want to go and deal with this sort of land and this is this land is also there in places like Delhi Himachal everywhere still exists those maps still exist it's not as if the maps have been are no longer available it's all there now these other documents that the financial commissioner we didn't go into that let's not waste our time on that so this is this is basically the jama bandhi the vajra bullets and the shajra kistavar so i'm just trying to keep it as simple as possible now can you just put up the jama bandhi okay in the meanwhile i'll just explain to you the jama bandhi is defined here but the columns of the jama bandhi are given in a book called the Punjab land records manual and that continues to apply everywhere those are actually instructions issued by the financial commissioner it's to be a senior officer he issued instructions and the format of the jama bandhi is there and that's where i'll just explain to you what is the kevard katani khasra number quickly i'll try as quickly as possible this is the form of the jama bandhi i've taken the english one out purposely because i think a lot of us will understand in english land if you understand the Punjabi one now if you see column number one this is how the jama bandhi originally was in Punjab what they've done this is the jama bandhi in Haryana and in Himachal and even in Delhi what they've done is if you can just put it the other way it was better that way yes thank you and yes yes that it that way it's better so in Punjab what they've done is if they've left only eight columns because they merged a few other columns but before doing that i'll just tell you now if you can read column number one is kevard number column number two is the katani number and now what is this kevard whenever showing you that village map if you remember i told you that there's a number in the center of each each rectangle which is the 13th number which will have the rectangle number written there and below that there's a double slash and then followed by khasra number that word which is before the double slash is the rectangle number so it is in the given in the 13th column always and it is written in red if you see the original documents it's given in red and as this rectangle proceeds it proceeds like a spiral from left to right and it goes right down till that now kevard number very put very simply is your account number remember that if you don't have a kevard number you cannot be an owner meaning thereby you can't have an account in the bank so when you are looking for land you have to tell him please how you're going to purchase land or you're selling land or anything looking at land in any manner you must have the jama bandhi and is extract with a kevard number that is his account number i hope that is quite clear i can repeat it again kevard number is the account number i'm not going into further details putting it very simply so katani number come to column number two katani number is the possession number now in case you're a single owner there'll be only one katani for you but in case you're a co-sharer that's your three of your owners and you have all not partitioned but for convenience you are in different parcels of the land you will be assigned a separate katani but that will not be deemed to be a partition that's only for convenience so like suppose there are four people two people ramsing and shamsing they're equal owners they will add one code kevard but if they are both cultivated land together then they will have one katani number but if they are cultivating it separately but without a partition then they'll be given two katani numbers so i think that that should be quite clear it's as simple as i can put it it's rather complicated but i'm trying to keep it as simple as possible then comes name of pati or taraf now pati is another unit of of of the village it may be you see it may be caste-based it was never religion-based but somehow over a period of time it has become religion-based also now it was caste-based there were people of different caste they own different common land like it if you come across it'll be written pati bhamana it'll be again there'll be the caste written there so only brahmans were a part of that pati and they alone could hold that land this was common land which we known as shamla but there was one shamla which was owned by everybody that's a separate separate thing which actually i did in the morning today the entire shamla thing in the morning so this is pati taraf is also similar to that so we didn't get confused this is not very important but today there's a huge dispute on pati land in and around Chandigarh in and around Gurgaon because these are the lands which are actually now left pati and shamla land or forest lands these are the lands now which are being targeted by the builders by people so everybody because there's no particular owner so five people will pati get together and sell it and then the others file a suit so be very careful on what you are buying what you're putting your money into then column number four is owner so if the owner is Ram Singh he'll come with description Ram Singh son of so and so Singh resident of so and so that entire thing will come in that this column this is the next crucial column number one and number four most crucial column is who is the owner you may have a case where we'll take you later ownership is a different person somebody's got possessory title and he's trying to sell that to you so be a little careful on that also but this document will reflect it yes if there are mistakes in this document then your goose is cooked so as long as the document is correct you have to inspect it and examine it from the original record what most people do most of us also do we find a good parcel of land cheap rate going on and we quickly take the papers from him which may not be correct also and we go and purchase the land later on you find that two Jammu Mandis away it was somebody else they made a change in the Jammu Mandi and made the owner who sold it to you and he's actually not the owner so please be a little careful in examining the record get somebody to examine it and give you a certificate like the bank people do when you go to take a loan so this is the owner with description there are all various sorts of description i'm not going into that that will have that in itself is a completely separate lecture then we have cultivator is column number five now cultivator with description is complete details cultivator can be a tenant can be a mortgagee can be a licensee i have you should be aware of a difference between a lessee and a licensee licensee a person who holds the property at the will or at the wish of the owner and he does not have any rights per se except in his license lessee is a tenant so there are different ways somebody pays one third somebody pays half there are different words for all that that will come later now can you see well or other means of irrigation so this is where water will be defined what is it is it nehri is it chahi is it brani is it banjar all this will come in here as well as later also it will come in here kuma nehri too well nowadays you have too well also so there are so many things which will come in this information actually if you all you have to do study this jamani is probably one of the easiest documents to go through because everything is written in such plain simple language then we come to the field numbers now this is where lots of people make mistakes here will be given in field number will be given the rectangle okay rectangle then double slash under that will be the khatsara numbers so please look at these tally this with the map with the shajra kish tevar tally them with the akshajra and then and only then go to look for the lab don't just look at this this is one part of the document one part of the record of rights i just read out to you there are so many documents you needn't go into other documents but this is the document that is there so therefore it will be written say rectangle number 24 which is called mustatil in urdu there'll be a double slash and then two three four seven eight he may not own entire and below each one will be given the size of that land now you'll immediately say there's a contradiction you said each khatsara number is eight kanal so why have this size of the land because at some times there will be khatsara numbers which are less than eight also which i told you are called jasmine numbers like a road comes in it cuts the number but they maintain the triangle so it's like a virtual part of the triangle so they remove it and it comes less than eight so if it's less than eight canals it means there is some structure around or there is something or the revenue estate is ending or there's a pond or there's something but and there's another thing if it's less than two canals then it'll be added to the next number so that number may be more than eight canals so these are small little revenue column revenue tricks to understand where the land is if it's less that means there is something around it either the obadi there is there there's a pond around it there's a road around it there is something or the it's ending there in the next village is starting net next at bus is starting so then we come to the area is the field numbers i've said area and classification of land now classification of land land you all have heard the word nehri you all are familiar i think everybody's familiar with the word chahi barani banjar kadeem and banjar jadeed nehri by itself means canal irrigated so it'll be given here so the classification of the land you must be very sure what is written chahi is well or too well irrigated barani is rain or without aid of irrigation either rain or without rate of irrigation now banjar kadeem is called which has remained vacant for eight harvests and banjar jadeed for four harvests and then there is something called gear mumkin this is a word you should all be familiar with because gear mumkin is land which is not capable of cultivation it's a house it's a pond it's a road it's a factory so in the revenue record it will be written gear mumkin makhanath it'll be written gear mumkin sarak sarak gear mumkin pahi means a path gear mumkin kanal means it's no longer part of agriculture land now why is this important because this land will not pay land revenue though you may also say that nowadays there's no land revenue yes there's no land revenue but assessment still takes place but the government exempts it but the assessment is there every year so these are the types of land i'm sorry i'm rushing through because this can go on and on and on and then we come to so nehri chahi barani gear mumkin banjar kadeem and banjar jadeed these are the types of land which we have in the north of the country this is panjab haryana deli and chandigarh also in deli you still have surprisingly some cultivated land some cultivable land although or most of it has been changed and then you have gear mumkin pahad gear mumkin pahad you have gear mumkin janglath which is the forest area which a lot of it in deli in the ridge you may have that entry in gurgaon all around gurgaon you have gear mumkin pahad you have gear mumkin khads there are all sorts of words which are used like this so because those land those are the lands which are being targeted fortunately deli is protecting it but haryana unfortunately there's a huge pressure to divert forest land and all these gear mumkin khads etc for builders and luckily because of the crisis in construction things seems to everybody seems to have taken a step backwards so with this then we come to rent i'm not going to go into the various types of rent column number nine is rent rent means the rent the tenant pays so a dispute arises many times between a landlord and a tenant he says no he's not my tenant so then you look to the rent column this will contain batai it's called batai tehada means one third nisaf is another word used i don't want to explain going to all this and then sometime this rupees so and so also so all this comes here can then we come to uh share or measure of right minion go into this and then we can leave all this out then there's land revenue and remarks column now remarks is a very important column if you are going to look at the title of land remember this jama mandi is for title of land in that all changes which are called mutations that have taken place will be recorded in red ink in this column in column number 12 they'll record it in reading so if you'll go somebody will go to inspect particularly when you go for a loan the bank lawyer goes and he inspects this so this will be written in red and there's a mutation change of ownership change of possession change of various things it's been mortgage the bank gets your mortgage entered into column number 12 but lots of times the bank forgets also to do it but that doesn't mean that the land is not being mortgaged there's a little penalty for the bank to do it and they can they can do whatever they want now comes to that why should i bother about a jama mandi if it's only for payment of land revenue and if it's only meant to for me to pay land revenue then why should can you please remove this can you please remove the jama mandi and this after sometime i'll just ask you to put up a another section now what i'm trying to tell you is this is a document the revenue record is not a document of title please underline the word not as much as you can it's a document of presumptive title lawyers here would understand those who are not loyal presumptive title means a presumption of truth attaches to it it is believed to be true till somebody comes and disproves it so the other party will have to come and disprove it that's why it's such an important document in india we do not have any other document of title but you'll say oh no of course there's a sale deed there's a sale deed yes there is a sale deed but then a sale deed remember is again based on rights which you draw from the jama mandi so if the jama mandi is incorrect even the sale deed will be incorrect therefore when people challenge their rights they challenge not only the sale deed but they also challenge entries in the jama mandi if your title is based upon an entry in the jama mandi and that end jama mandi is wrong or held to be fraudulent or illegal then automatically if you purchase land from somebody of that in that nature everything else will also go so it's a presumptive title under section 44 can you just put up section 44 straight away of the land revenue act section 44 and then we deal with section 45 which is a lawyer's delight after 44 so lawyers on the group would be happy they're 45 there's a section called 45 can you put up okay anyway if it's some problem 44 says an entry made in the record of rights in accordance with law in accordance with law for the timing in force or in the annual record now please do not mistake the annual record for a khasra vizabi okay in accordance with the provisions of this chapter and the rules there under shall be presumed to be true until the contrary is proved or a new entry is lawfully substituted so once you have got your name in the jama mandi you will be presumed to be the person who's going to pay the land revenue you'll be presumed to be the owner the word qualifying word is presumed to be owner till somebody comes and proves by way of other evidence that you are not so so it's a presumptive evidence this is the only document we have in this country in fact about 15 to 20 years ago there was a huge debate in the government also in everywhere in fact all over the world there was a debate that you are trying to move to a first world country but you don't even have a document of title so the government I believe did set up a team to decide this but I don't know whether anything is how to make this presumptive title into an actual title so till today nothing has come out of that and I think there will be many reports made by many people and this this is the problem in our country that and then you have these cases of lots of frauds false entries being made people making false jama mandis false reports so that's the reason why it is and eventually even in the case of a will suppose you have taken a property as a will even in Delhi they will ask you to get a mutation though Delhi is no longer a village but the NDMC or the DDA or whoever it is will ask you to make a mutation now since I'm dealing with this presumptive title here I'll just quickly shift to the Delhi Land Revenue Act everybody should know those who are from Punjab and all that Delhi has a separate land revenue act called the Delhi Land Land Revenue Act 1954 it came in the year 1954 and it's not as if they've suddenly decided their independence from Punjab last year or something or when when the present chief minister came in though it's been earlier is since 1954 they have a separate act called the Delhi Land Revenue Act 1954 so can you just roll it to section 2 now just stop stop stop all everything earlier in Delhi and some parts of Delhi have come from UP and some have come from Punjab so I'm treating this entire area as one unit all records were prepared under the Punjab Land Revenue Act or the UP Land Revenue Act so what happened was when this act came they have saved all revenue records all rights orders record of rights you see subsection 2 notwithstanding such repeal all rules appointments assessments partitions transfers made notifications proclamations and orders issued etc etc farms granted record of rights issued authorities powers conferred liabilities incurred rents fixed shall remain the same okay that's what I'm trying to say so what happened before 1954 continues to be enforced till today until it is changed and now that change is in section 20 please come to section 20 I thought I must give a little listening idea of Delhi also because I'm in these days I'm more in Delhi so I must section 20 yes yes I think it's there no 20s up there up there yes just pause here pause here pause here I just read it out to you it's almost identical to Punjab but there is a big difference also yes there there shall be a record of rights of each village subject to such acceptance as may be prescribed this the government has to keep on the record of rights shall consist of a register of all persons cultivating or otherwise occupying land specifying the particular was required by section 40 now you will immediately say this is cultivation of land yes but then all land initially was cultivated and that diverted over time so therefore I was emphasizing that banjar kadeem meaning thereby it became banjar kadeem sadaq it became banjar kadeem makanath it became banjar banjar kadeem factory etc etc they were all agricultural lands worst most of delhi except the central portion of old delhi was not agriculture the first diversion that took place was luteans delhi diversion from agriculture land was luteans delhi when they made this the capital of the british made it so a lot of land was taken away and the the area around mehrolli and all still has these record of rights continuing like this and everything is recorded in that now can you just turn to section 40 required by section 40 it's down there I've sent it to you what is missing can you just roll it up yes sir it's only up till 37 what you have shared with us okay okay my mistake my mistake okay just open section 40 I'll just read it out section 40 again has all those things which were there in the land revenue act basically nothing nothing very very different but what I'm trying to say is that delhi delhi does not have all those particulars that are contained in the Punjab act the Himachal act has everything similar to Punjab except for they have that section that you can't go and purchase anybody can't so section 40 contains the particulars in the Jama Balvi now all everybody has and then section 41 is the presumptive title presumption as to increase in the record of rights same as in Punjab which I just read to you section 44 so basically this area of the country similar provisions in Punjab, Haryana and Himachal and now we have a latest judgment from the Supreme Court that's by Honourable Secretary of Justice Heman Gupta on the presumptive value of these documents that they can be tended into evidence per se and it's for the other party to report them presumption arises as to their correctness under sections this is slightly for the lawyers 35, 74, 76 and 79 35, 74, 76 and 79 of the evidence act so they can be tended into evidence straight away and you don't need to prove them they don't have to call a padwari etc to prove them you don't have to court that the sealed are all the deputy commission who signed them so there's a presumption as to their truthfulness under the act and then you can tender them in evidence as proof of your presumptive title till somebody proves it to the contrary so I think that should be fairly clear that you have to read the evidence act and then of course there is section 114 of the evidence act which we apply as lawyers we apply it to everything again a presumptive presumption but it's there so therefore please have a look at these sections this is it's difficult for me to keep on screen sharing all this otherwise I'll only be screen sharing so now coming to the Jammabandhi in today's times in Punjab can you just screen share the other Jammabandhi it's only it's very small I've given you yes sir no no the other one which you made yes sir yes thank you what they've done is if you look at this this is a slightly brighter copy also in Punjab they've left made it into eight columns which was 12 originally this is for computerization they had some problem with their with their software so Kewar number remains there under Khatani number in column number two if you will see they've made rent also there Lagan also there Lagan is rent many of many people somehow tend to believe that Lagan is land revenue because of that movie we had some years back Lagan is not land revenue Lagan is rent owner's name same cultivator's name same irrigation source same area and Khasar number same area type land same and special commits that's all so what they've done is they put a few chapters here and there so that's how it's done but in Haryana it continues to be the same there's no difference in Haryana Haryana country be the same Delhi continues to be the same Imarchal continues to be the same Punjab has made a departure so you can if you can take this off and please start preparing if you have any questions to ask on these because in a little while I'm going to open it up for any questions that anybody wants then there is something very important which you all may have heard of can you put this off called the Khasra Gidavari Khasra Gidavari is not to be confused with an annual record Khasra Gidavari is only a record of who is cultivating and what is the nature of cultivation I hope that's very clear it does not have a presumption of truth attached to it the word record mentioned over there annual record again is referred to a Jammu Mandi because initially they thought that the Jammu Mandi should be prepared annually now it is prepared after every five years because then they realize that preparing such a huge document every five years updating it would be a problem so they can put it to five years now Jammu Mandi does not have a presumption of truth but since it's a document prepared in the discharge of official duties by the Patwari duly authenticated by the Tassilaar and the including in Delhi including in Himachal including in Punjab therefore it can be led into evidence and presumption will apply under the evidence act and not under the land revenue act it'll apply under the evidence act and then somebody can rebut it why these documents are important to possession I'll tell you why possession is important even for the criminal case if there's a case of trespass how will you show that the other person trespassed or the accused came and beat you up you have to first show that the land belong to you or you were in possession of that land and then that man trespassed and whereas the occurrence took place in your land or if you are gone and beaten up or shot somebody in somebody else's land so it'll be his land so therefore these documents are not just confined to land records these documents are important even for criminal laws because we have a lot of disputes regarding land possession of land water the Banna the what of the this thing there's a lot of disputes possession when people come to take possession so therefore that's the time when all these questions come unlawful assembly 144 45 then self-defense that he came to attack me so you will have to show that he was in your land that you were in possession of the land he came to attack you then you have a right to defend but then there's a question of proportionate force etc etc you can't just shoot anybody you and everybody who enters your land so this is one these significance importance of a Khasar Vizagri now all of you must have seen sometime at least a Khasar Vizagri so can I briefly just touch upon the harvests since farming is such a big issue now in our sir I have received section 40 you want for a minute I can share it no no it's okay it's okay and that lawyer's delight part is in section 45 which says that anybody who's agreed by any entry in the record of rights can file a civil suit so the record of rights are not final so all suits challenging right title or interest actually filed under section 45 of the Punjab Land Revenue Act if there's an entry in the revenue record so it's section 45 which is the mother section of all disputes and not the CPC we tend to write order 7 order 7 is the frame of the plate not the provision so we don't write section 45 we don't write it like in a red petition right article 2 to 6 obviously article you just write it petition but we've got so used to writing article 2 to 6 as ever it petition is under some other article before the high court so I'm just now there's a type of can I just give you the type of harvests because farming is a hot issue and there are two harvests actually you may take out four crops of five crops or do whatever you like but the harvest remain two one is Khareef and Rabi Khareef is called Sony and Rabi is called Hardy these are difference in different states now Khareef is sown in summer inspected by the Patwari in October and harvested around October November and then they replant the land and Rabi is sown in November December that's your wheat crop which you all know and then harvested in March April that's the time they inspect it also so this is inspections take place twice a year they make entries twice a year so why are these entries important it's not just important for you of to know who is in possession it's also important for the government like I told you they must have statistics as to what is likely to be the production of food grain what is likely to be the shortfall of food grain suppose there is lack of water and the food grain is so this is where the government gets his statistics that this is the production because if in a if in a hectare of land so much of wheat is to be produced and this is the wheat hectare age under so and so they will calculate this is the production so they will account for that that well this is going to be a good harvest it's going to be a bad harvest same with rice same with millet same with or bajra same with all sorts of crops though now we are we are a agrarian economy that fluctuates only between wheat and rice and that's another story the disaster of rice and wheat as far as the environment is concerned but then that is it that's what the government to consider and so therefore we have these two types of harvest only now when you write the java bandhi i'm sorry i didn't send you the kassar aghazabi you but you all may have seen it i'll just try and signal what's the kassar aghazabi uh they are calling for different this things in it and then there is a line diagonal line one diagonal line like this and one you can ask uh mr saini to share it on the even i will do it immediately then wait wait that somehow we missed out on that my fault there are two diagonal lines like this these diagonal lines are called vatars vatar means line in urdu so giving you a little lesson in urdu also if you are interested vatar means line and in haryana and punjab they use opposite sides of the entry in punjab you come from left to right for one harvest and right to left for one harvest so if the two lines are there it doesn't mean that there's nothing grown it means the same thing was grown in the last harvest i won't go into this left and right that will confuse you that one harvest is left and one from left to right corner right to left corner so then it is the same but if one line is missing and there's only one line then it means somebody else has come into possession this is another way of looking at who is in possession if one line is there and the other line is missing means in that harvest in that harvest somebody else is coming and his name will be recorded in that column of the kalsar gizabi so these are not actually if you look at them they are they are like signages we now have in malls in airports etc you don't have water written anymore you love the signage of water you don't have fire you don't have exit written anymore you'll have the stairs going down etc so these were the original signages which they made that time when they were making these land records so that they would be familiar even to a illiterate or a semi-literate person but somehow we just don't look at them in that light we look at them as something which you know we are just we just refuse to try and understand so actually looking at it it's i've been able to encapsulate almost the fundamentals of the of the jama bandhi the record of rights and the kalsar gizabi though each one has a separate method of writing and each one can take much more time than what i've taken but this i just thought we can just go through this quickly if there are any questions now i am wrapping up any questions this is jhatrat yes sir we have received one on the youtube it says this is by shweta mohit how does the transfer of land takes place when an abadi day in absence of record of ownership of an individual proprietor yes in abadi day actually they cannot transfer they cannot make a registered sale deed because nobody is the owner the entire body of original persons are the owner you only transfer possessory title in punjab and rana if you go back say 20 years or 30 years or 40 years you will you will notice that there'll be malkana kabza sale deeds means possessory title being sold within the abadi day but let me not accuse anybody of anything but over a period of time unscrupulous officials in the revenue department and people have started getting registered sale sale deeds registered within the abadi day they are not supposed to be at all so basically they are illegal but this is going on to a large extent in delhi to a large extent even in chandigarh we have huge abadi day areas in chandigarh which unfortunately were not acquired because there was a policy not to acquire abadi days of illicit so basically it's illegal but it's going on and everybody's happy with it you have multi-storied buildings within abadi yes yes Mr. Bansal unmute yourself I will just ask oh johnny Mr. Sudarshan Bansal unmute yeah say he's unmuted himself yeah yeah yeah so so I must thank you sir for giving a very great insight into the land laws so what I mean just add so as a lawyer sir of course I'm very happy with section 45 and so on sir but please tell us one thing sir in Punjab and Haryana the Punjab and Haryana high court especially so there is so much litigation that is received pertaining to land laws I think the entire high court if it was to devote all its judges just for doing the the discourse that the land the land issue throws up I think the entire so why is it so sir when everything is seems to be so clear forward everything is there but even then sir I just it just begs to reason sir please could you just share your experience with it both as a lawyer and as a judge see more the lawyer the disputes I like I said are lawyer's delight and the more disputes the better but socially they are disasters for our families for other things and the foundation of every dispute is greed act yes is greed it's not need so till we don't realize what's our needs and do not work as for greed because everybody's looking at I should get this and I should get that so I mean we haven't I haven't taken you to the partition which is another huge area of dispute of how to partition the land so all these things are you're right absolutely right the courts are inundated but me it's the high court is not so bad as far as this litigation is concerned the high court is inundated with a lot of other litigation also but yes Punjab and Haryana has a lot of land litigation yes lots of it is under the village common land act I see it's the village common land act which is because I like I told you that Shamna land is the one which everybody's looking for now but that's land for free so everybody's enjoying it everybody's selling it off the panchayats have a tough time protecting it the courts have a even tougher time protecting it because even governments are guilty of that all Gurgaon if you start appealing Gurgaon almost 80% of the your high rises will have to be demolished sir so they are all somewhere on the other they are on Shamla's land so that's a matter of policy Mr. Bansal I agree on this so what I was there is the laws are there everything sir but there is so much social unrest that is coming out of these land issues sir that next time open the land revenue act okay just go back there's a chapter 19 in 87 they had arbitration there that day I see sir in 1987 arbitration by the collector and his decision was final and since there were no high courts that time yes sir so those decisions were final the problem is actually the problem is we have too many for us now in Punjab let me give you an example you go up to the financial commissioner then you come to the high court then you come to the Supreme Court and then the law is this is not final because Jammu Bandi he's decided this is not final this is presumptive title then he goes and files a civil suit yes sir why because a judgment of a revenue officer even if upheld up to the Supreme Court does not operate as desk duty cater before his civil suit in a civil court I mean this is another debate yes a huge thing so he goes and files a civil suit yes sir okay sir so we'll take the courts and other people won't be asking on a private chat yes by this is by Navneet land belongs to all government is just a trustee government is just a trustee in a manner of speaking nobody should really be required to buy land this is a general comment we are not taking that comment we have Mr. Preetam Saini who is himself expert himself a very good that's what I want on the revenue side yes Mr. Saini what is the question read out his question no he was just there I thought that he should have his insights also any any other questions I have this is one is asking the by Vishal Sharma what is the meaning of this NISF I'll send it to him separately by mail it'll take me five minutes to explain I don't want to take so much time okay last question you can send his bail to me yeah last question is by Khurana family on the youtube it says can demarcation take place in area which is constructed no demarcation cannot take place in the area which is constructed but they've got to understand everybody has to understand that demarcation though it's a separate I can explain everything to you all before consolidation this pukka point kacha point story used to be there why because a khasar number could be of 20 canals it could be of two canals because sorry their time it was bigger this was there was no there was no particular measurement now after the consolidation first he's got to be sure whether it is consolidated land or unconsolidated land because once it's consolidated then it becomes into hectares acres meters etc etc so if I just showed you the rectangle can you just put that back the I'll explain from right from here so what do you want the map the village map meanwhile Ravi Rajgar says how can one prepare or expertise itself in a land revenue matters you see there you it's you just got to work on it you got to read for them on these you got to read the khasar avarice and you got to try and understand the it's actually very simple in almost in an hour I've taken you through almost everything well nobody may have understood that's a different matter but some people are asking what are the good books for understanding the land revenue history and working on land land record office sir the best book is please read the plan Punjab Land Revenue Act these sections which I've told you please read the land records manual and then there's one very interesting book which is called the land administration manual now surjhwan judgment of justice I'm not I'm not commenting no no no that I'm saying he should read that also because all judgments have been dealt with all the revenue entries khasar kardawari everything has been dealt with in that judgment my younger brother should read that judgment that even I my lord referred it to constitution bench my lord had it for a month or three months then it was referred to constitution bench then I demitted office therefore it went to that place but you can tell them also to read Prakash Singh for Punjab yes my lord Prakash Singh for Punjab Surat Ban for Haryana both that clear that is also applicable to Punjab also surjhwan no no mostly the that's a municipal committee municipal land but but really the entries have been interpreted how the entries should be taken basically there was a confusion what is the surjhwan and this and that all entries have been interpreted in that and you say that I say no anyway it's up to you no no that's right that's right my lord Mr. Singh all right no because Prakash Singh contains a lot of other things as to why the matter should go to the civil court as far as Jumla Mr. Kamalkan yes we should have a actually Mr. Chathar we can have one on land record this common land also separately so we we will do that and Mr. Saini will sit with me the Anurag is asking for unmuting but the issue is that we had specifically posted that that the session would be over by 7.15 so we will take we will ask Anurag to come on the second session part two and to the followers who are following us a part three on probation is due and we will be coming shortly on the that succession part which we have promised part one and part two on succession series we have done on Hindu Sucession Act and anybody who wants they can share their comments upon the YouTube we will share their questions and meanwhile they can share like and subscribe to the YouTube channel of Beyond Law CLC and the part two Mr. Chathar you can send all their questions to me I'll respond as long as they are civil yes civil means civilly addressed civil and civilized and so tomorrow just like we are doing this series on the land of news we tomorrow we are having a four-part series we will start tomorrow on the Limitation Act that is by Justice K.T. Sankaran a former judge from Kerala Iqut and he has already his YouTube channel by the name of K.T. Sankaran which is quite popular and he was kind enough to see to our request but tomorrow at 6 p.m. the first part of the Limitation Act and everyone stay safe stay blessed and rather on the invites we have also stated saying that maintain social distancing and we have asked this was a brainchild of Justice Bala on these aspects so do stay connected with us and on behalf of all those who are watching us live on this YouTube Facebook and Instagram coupled with on this platform we thank Justice Bala who has taken his precious time to take things forward and make us understand in a lucid manner and to all those participants who have been encouraging us to take these sessions forward so that we can and which motivates us to bring good speakers like Justice Bala thank you and Mr. Anurag you will have to connect next time since the time is over thank you stay stay safe stay blessed and thank you very much thank you very much leaving thanks a lot