 Hello everyone Welcome to another Narc Spive a live video. This one is a bit different as it is a live interview With a diagnosed covert narcissist who has become self-aware and He has been undergoing Therapy as well for many years So Please be kind respectful and Supportive. Thank you. I am not survivor for those of you who don't know I have been Researching narcissistic personality disorder for the past six years And I have been making these videos for over five years Daily as well I've worked with Psychologists Psychiatrists lawyers and even some celebrities. I Also have my own personal experience with Narcissus as well. Can you hear me hex? Are you there? I can't hear you. I'm just going to try to add him into the Live video here. So please be patient for a moment Yes, I can hear you Hey, how you doing today? All good. Thanks. How are you? Good So can we begin by You introducing yourself to the viewers, please? Yeah, I Have a channel on YouTube called Narcissus tax. My name is Jack Been diagnosed as a covert Narcissus two years ago and been struggling with it ever since Thank you at this point now in your journey Could you explain to the to the viewers what differences are you experiencing now at this stage in your healing? The differences now is that I know what I'm doing that's harming people still But I still have to Stop myself from doing it And I'm still doing it to a degree But it's like I can't help it now sometimes so Healing from it is like a constant daily battle I don't I don't I don't know how I'm gonna win it but That's that's what I'm working on It's like, you know, you have a double and an angel on your shoulders That's how it is every day like you're fighting the evil side and then You have to stop yourself to remember that it's toxic My therapist gave me a tool called Opposite behavior therapy so you're doing the opposite of what your first instinct is Yeah, yeah, it sucks I just find it funny, you know That the therapist said that I mean, you know, of course, I can understand that that would be very effective but it's just It's kind of comical in a way because it's like, you know The first thought for most of us when we think of narcissists It's like, you know, they're anything but normal They do the exact opposite of whatever is usual or expected or decided It sounds like such a simple fix but it makes a lot of sense Yeah Do you have my most of my life has been spent, you know in that toxic stuff, you know, so Yeah, doing the object thing is normal to me living a peaceful life is not normal so Right Well for me anyway Yeah, because that's it with with narcissists They tend to thrive in dysfunction exactly They don't like functional environments where everything is in harmony. They have to disrupt it Right, it's not that we don't like it. It's just we don't know any better Personally for me, I just I don't know any better You know, my family was extremely dysfunctional. So Dysfunction misery chaos violence that to me is normal. That's all normal to me Right Unfortunately so what do you think when Because I know from my own experiences You know with narcissists that I've dealt with There were little things like when I tried to Put my arms around them or kiss them They were like pull away and turn away You know, it's like they just they couldn't stand it when I just tried to be normal and affectionate with them Did have you found that in yourself? Yeah, it's extremely uncomfortable. I don't know why it just I Think a part of it is all the misery that we heap on others. We feel like we don't deserve Subconsciously, we don't deserve it Maybe that's what it is and it's funny you mentioned that because I was at a party for New Year's Eve and A friend of a friend was trying to hug me and it just It felt weird. I don't know But we're I don't know I can't explain it didn't feel like Normal like hugging a child or my daughter or whatever didn't feel good, you know, I Don't know it just it's like we don't have the human ability to function as a human Unless we're forced to I Know I'm not forced to hug this person. So I didn't want to do it Even though I did it, but I didn't want to do it. I think I can already think of a few reasons Why that is of course, you know with all of my research, but I would like to hear from you. I mean You know, this is an interview and you are the feature and I think the viewers would like to hear from a Diagnosed narcissist You know, why do you think that is but you turn away from affection from intimacy from closeness It's kind of like in my situation. I don't know about every single art narcissist, but for me, it's It was never given as a child So it's foreign as an adult Like when I fell down or I got beat up. I was never Hugged or comforted or anything. Why did people beat me up at school? For example, and my mom would just be like, well, you know That's how it is. That's how the world is, you know So you don't expect when someone's kind you don't expect that Like for me, it's foreign. It's like a foreign concept That someone could be nice and when someone is nice, I Always think they're about the backstab me or something's gonna happen like That's it's so messed up like this disorder It's you need more to it like for any narcissist you need more than just therapy. Believe me You have to really you have to really want to change You need more than therapy It's it's a lot of work to just Function and oh, okay, this person just wants to hug me to hug me, you know for love It's bizarre to me a Lot of narcissists may not admit that though and and that's that's the thing They may not admit that You know, I'm trying to be vulnerable, but like It's a hard thing to admit that it's a foreign concept where you don't have that Feeling of actually loving someone. I know it's weird, but when you love someone you hug them You don't have that feeling as an arse. It's not fully not fully though Like there is love, but it's not like how you would probably feel it. You're you're an empath. I agree I mean, as you said, I think it's it's because you know, they feel undeserving unlovable So someone presents love to them and then it kind of It triggers that injury and they it goes from the false self to where they reflect back on the true self or the undeveloped child within and it's like I'm not worthy of this type of interaction this love right Yeah, like some of sometimes you say things and it's like You're a narcissist yourself like, you know us so well like you're speaking as You did a short a couple years ago you did a short and you said, uh, what the hell was it was? Due to the narcissist what they're doing to you to see how they liked your little I Think it was like a discard game or something like that trauma bond That's what it was. You're like try it with them. See how they like it. I saw that I'm like, oh my god Damn Yeah, I think I I do kind of know a Lot of narcissists more than they know themselves, you know at this point with all of my daily research over the past six years now But then also, you know, I can look at things in my in my past You know, I'm not perfect myself And of course there have been times where I've been a bit narcissistic Even though I do consider myself to be an empath So I can learn from my past as well Yeah, we have such great conversations. Um, I Feel like a good vibe like from you like even even not watching your videos I came across it and it was just something about you like I don't know your You're not like Vokman and other channels on YouTube, you know It's like you really you know us almost like you suck better than us better than we know ourselves so Yes, I've always been interested in human behavior and psychology Just human interaction and you know, just why people do what they do Yeah Like your videos are so clear and concise and your advice is really good for people You know and I agree with like almost everything you say It's it's It's really spot-on what you say Thank you. I appreciate it And I never advise anyone to work on a relationship if they're partners and narcissists just like you I fully agree with that They have to get out of that Yes, definitely I've got some questions here that I would like to ask as well. I think The viewers may be interested in some of these That I want to ask more about the false self Do you remember creating the false self? Yeah, I remember Right around my early part of my teens I started Started the developing I remember bits and pieces of it. Yeah right It it's like a protection protection Like if people know the real me and what I am, you know, it's it's a protection It's to protect my identity basically it's It's uh, it's Not anything I believe in like I know my Like my ex-wife. I was telling her I was a dem I got it points, you know And that's An extreme version of that but I do remember bits and pieces of it As a teenager to protect people from getting to know me. I think you know, like who I really am, you know As a child and growing up and and it just became normal to me You know, it's a part of my identity and it's because Maybe you felt as though the real part of you wasn't good enough Exactly. Yeah, and that's again how you know Narcissus better than we know ourselves. That's kind of what I was trying to say actually. Yeah, you're right Yep I'm sure some people will be watching this and they'll be thinking You know, that's um That seems like quite a normal thing these days You know for kids in their teens. It's like, you know, they're looking at um, I don't know They used to be Britney Spears now. It's Kim Kardashian Yeah, Justin Bieber, whoever it is. I know they all want to be these um, these celebrities now Right Yeah, I was just gonna say that they look up to like people like Trump. Oh my god. Yeah Yeah And they're like the entity of their own now. It's just everything just revolves around You know this this pop culture Yeah It's a shame too Because as as the famous ones are famous, obviously it looks like it's uh It's gonna keep spreading I guess But what do you think it is that separates you from those types of people because you know, obviously that's Very common now these days Um What separates it, um I think I wanted to go on a journey to learn about it, which is why I started my channel I wanted to learn about it and understand it. Uh Very similar to how Vaknin wanted to do that but I think What separates it what's well what separates me is that I'm trying to change it. I'm trying to change the patterns that have not worked and I'm not trying to change it just because I want to change it Uh, I want to change it, you know for my children and Well, that sounds great and all but I'm not going to be able to survive unless I change it It's a self-destructive um behavior mechanism totally Self-destructive and I wanted to leave my legacy on youtube as well So my children can understand it and what I was or what I am Hopefully they don't become that way um, it's it's Kind of like hereditary like caribos or whatever You could pass these traits onto your children and it'll just never end like If I treat my child very toxic and horrible He's going to do the same thing as he gets older and it's in the never-ending cycle. I want to end it And it's not only just for my children. It's for me because if I don't change it I'm going to end up, you know, I could end up like um Deleting myself and and that's actually pretty common with narcissists There's a high rate of that I mean, I don't want to say the word, you know what I'm saying You know Uh, somebody said it was like 20% I don't know if that's true, but I I know I've had thoughts of that Quite often That's really amazing though, you know to hear a diagnosed narcissist Being able to identify that the disorder is self-destructive Because it's like a lot of them. They don't seem to realize it or they just don't care And that's where they continue on with their behavior Yeah, it's it's um, it's like Like going into a lake of fire. You're gonna destroy yourself eventually You self sabotage and I have to keep I have to keep stopping myself from doing that all the time Like anything good or anything that happens Like I want to sabotage it like all relationships every relationship I've had. You just want to sabotage them Right But it's not like I I have to do it. It feels like I have to it's weird I don't know if you understand that I can see Graham whiting in the live chat is saying You was weak and became a false self Yeah, I know quite blunt, but You know, you've watched my videos and you know, I do stand by that With and even in my my own experience in my past I can see it you know where I I couldn't be vulnerable myself before That I felt like I kind of had a false self of my own at one point and And yeah, I found it without weakness myself It's because I was too weak to be vulnerable because vulnerability is strength To just let go of the ego and to be our authentic self static strength and courage Well, yeah, yeah, but I I didn't know that Growing up. I didn't know that I didn't understand it, you know Right Half my life was spent living this way and I knew there's something wrong with me And I don't know what it is or what it was. I read so many self-help books, but Yeah, I guess I was weak as a child. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Yeah But you're strong now. I mean, you know, how many Narcissists in the world are taking the steps as you have where you've become self aware And you're changing your behaviors You're able to be live on youtube To speak about it. How many narcissists have the strength to do that? Right, yeah Yeah It took a lot though, like, you know to become this way self aware and um yeah Like I wish I knew this, you know when I was younger to not develop this but It's like I had a choice. I don't feel like I had a choice You know, it's just my personality So you think this was something outside of your control? Yeah, but I didn't understand what happened to me. I didn't understand it like, um When I was um young I was I was abused a lot in many many different ways I didn't understand it, you know And it's it's just normal it became normal Although as I grew up I started to realize I wasn't A human almost I guess you could say I know it sounds weird, but like you don't fit in anywhere You you don't feel human But then I'm sure some people are watching this and they will be thinking You know, they've been through a lot of abuse in their childhood and they didn't become a narcissist They became Yeah, like you right Yeah There was a guy on youtube like a few months ago Like six months ago. He's called the anti-narc And I used to go on his dreams and talk to him a lot You know, he's very similar to you and he was telling me his story His father and brother beat him up and it was like a lot of abuse, but We were like so opposite. I was like it blew my mind away, you know, I couldn't believe it Well, obviously your story too, you know um and your your uh empath Which you always say is one to three percent In the world right now two percent. Yes, that's the statistics I've seen yes And uh locked in says that narcissists are anywhere from one to six and now 50 percent So I don't know How do you know if it's a covert narcissist? How do you know that though? That's the thing because the the statistics show Up to 15 percent is npd narcissistic personality disorder Which you know, that's the grandiose narcissist, but that does not include covert narcissism That's something right Yeah Yeah, because they don't want to admit it and when my therapist told me that I had it I dismissed her and I got rid of her and um I didn't believe it. I'm like, oh, she's an idiot, you know I actually thought I was smarter You know, I'm like, I should have been a fucking therapist, you know, I mean The false self again Yeah, that's really a typical response. I think that a narcissist would give to a therapist I could be a therapist as well Yeah, you probably could though because you have empathy And then I apologized to her and went back And the only reason I did that is because my friend said well She was like My friend katie was like, well, you know, let's think about this, you know And really made me think about it And I'm like, well, okay, my therapist said it My daughter said it My ex-wife said it Okay, so Maybe they're on the something I gave my therapist a second chance. I've been going ever since right It logically if you think about three different people telling you the same thing but don't really know each other Obviously, there's got to be some truth there and it's great. You know that you did Pay attention to what was being said because You know a lot of times with narcissists it's like No matter how many people try to tell them they just don't listen Right I knew something was wrong with me. I just I couldn't figure it out though My daughter was like telling me, you know, believe me, you don't want to be this And I just thought it was somebody like looking in the mirror and You know being cool and shit Yeah, I didn't know I was like destroying everyone's life and you know, what's even weirder is while I was doing it I didn't realize I was doing it. I know you don't believe me, but Like I I knew it and I didn't I guess like I was hurting people but I didn't you know It's hard to explain. I can't explain it Like you weren't fully aware of it Not fully. No, not fully So can we talk about the the void as well? Yeah Sure How does it feel to have this uh void inside of yourself? Where You constantly need a source of supply Yeah, we rely on external sources for supply Very similar to the matrix matrix movies Like we plug into other people and we need their supply. Have you ever seen the matrix matrix movies? Yes, yes, of course I have Okay, it's very similar to that. So we rely on that And When we don't have it we have to face the void That's that's kind of what happened to me sort of like a couple years ago when when it started I was alone for a long time So I was having to face that The void is also the knowledge that kind of like you're nothing Your um You don't really fit in the society And you know that The only thing that can make you happy is um, I hate to say this but harming others to a degree You feel a little bit of happiness because there's nothing inside to fill you up to make you happy Uh so like I was getting supply from someone and it was gone Right and I I was having to face the void alone It's like a giant black wave crashing in on me, you know And it was relatively new to me. I wanted to um delete myself so many times Um just the knowledge of of the nothingness I guess, um you feel Say you win the lottery or whatever good happens you feel good for like a moment But you're constantly scanning For the bad of that aspect whatever the aspect is Win the lottery Yeah Yeah You know, you would be happy but like for us we're like, oh now we got fucking taxes, you know I mean, I've always said that it's like, you know, even if an artist says wins the lottery You know, they have um, they could have mansions around the world private jets super yachts Perfect partner perfect family children everything They're still not going to be happy with that Exactly I had a lot of money at one point and a beautiful fiance. I had a house I had so many things that a lot of people would would wish for And it was like I couldn't help it like I I had to destroy it I didn't feel anything like I only felt good when it was like bad. I know it's weird. It's a weird concept There's a numbing inside like A void is like you you can't Get satisfied. You can't get like happy. It's very fleeting fleeting Put it that way like when my child was born things like that It's very fleeting, but you're on to like something else in your mind. Your mind's not there You're like you're like almost numb your numb and hollow It's weird. It's a weird idea for for you know, many of the survivors who are watching this right now, it's like That's all they've ever wanted. It's just you know, a normal relationship with someone Loves and cares for them, but it's like the Nazis they were with Just were held back from them and they were probably craving it so much I've been thinking as that was someone else Right Yeah, it's a shame But they don't of course Are we allowed to cuss in live stream? Um I did it on accident already once I try to avoid it, you know just in case there's any families watching this I'm sorry Yeah, I'm gonna try Sorry Go ahead. Sorry I've got another question How does it feel to get narcissistic supply? It feels like your life's complete, but only temporary It feels really good again the only time Hmm Because you feel a level of relief Like oh my gosh. I got my supply finally, you know There's a level of relief there But then it's gone it's over and you're gonna start Degrading that person very shortly Are you getting Uh, no, I'm not I probably don't need it right now, you know Seriously, like I had a good relationship. I messed it up like I you know, that's been my lifestyle I I don't need a I don't need it though, man I don't want to you know, I need to focus on myself and fixing myself. I think you know Yeah Yeah, because that's it isn't it I mean You know with the narcissistic supply you've had small it's the false self You know, it's not really you focusing on your actual needs Right It's a it's such a sinister self-destructive disorder Did you ever feel bad for hurting your victims? Victims Yes This is an interrogation Well, yeah, I want to talk to my tourney first Uh, yeah, yeah I didn't always like my all actually most of them I'm not I'm gonna lie here like most of my life. I didn't but only the last couple years. I did so what had happened is um I'm older and um I started to look back on what I'll just give you my recent example my ex-wife So I started to look back on it. I'm like, oh my god. I did this I did that And I went down a list and I was telling my therapist and she's like Oh my gosh, you gotta be careful. She's you gotta you gotta stop dwelling on this, you know There's nothing you could do. She's already with someone else but Now the other part of this my other victims were my family, you know, like my daughter So it's it's uh She could almost do anything to me now and I like forgive her and get over it But like I know I treated her like crap too. I I know I did so I already know that And it and it brings out To sum it up. It brings out depression. So I for myself preservation, I try not to dwell on it and The only people I could control now is my family and myself I can't stop my ex-wife or you know I can't do anything about it. She doesn't want to speak to me although we're we're sort of friends now we're friendly now but You know, she doesn't want to like hang out or anything. So I just kind of friendly to her because I think a lot of it's guilt. Honestly, I do feel guilty about that Yeah, I get that You know, you you couldn't control too much You know before you became aware Right through therapy So now you of course you would look back and think differently about how you were before Yeah, it made me cry a lot. Honestly, it really did. I know it sounds weird that I'm a covert narc, but There were so many nights. I I didn't want to live and I just cried so much because I didn't Like she did things like, you know, she did things that were wrong or whatever But like the punishment for the things she did was so extreme It was uncalled for so Looking back on it now years later. I feel really terrible about it But I don't know what I could ever do about it But again another part of my youtube channel when I started it is um To spread more awareness of it. So hopefully someone else doesn't go through that That's that's just the way I look at it, you know That's that's another reason why I started the channel right And um, I will say one more thing real quick. I don't want to dominate you or anything, but like My daughter was dating a narcissist. So she was getting it from me and her um girlfriend at the time So she was Toxic sandwich, you know Like I was like bad at her and then her girlfriend didn't want Her talking to me She's like, you know, that's my dad you know So her girlfriend was abusive towards her. That's another reason why I started the channel to spread more awareness So my daughter can can watch it too, you know And hope hope to god this never happens and I do pray that it doesn't happen again to her obviously I don't want this actually to happen to anyone It's so worse So that's the last thing anything anyone wants here really is um you know for their their child To end up with a narcissist as well Well, yeah, but you know with you you and me having those good intentions for like anybody though Is it not the worst form of abuse? outside of murder, you know It's the one of the worst forms of abuse you could do to someone is is narcissist abuse What do you think? But it's definitely yes Yeah So how did you feel after discarding a victim? um discarding is is basically bs discarding is um I'll come back to you basically We don't really discard people who always come back because we have no loyalty to one person You know like I could discard a girlfriend now and go back to her in 50 months and cheat on who I'm with Because we don't care to be loyal Loyalty is not one of our uh strong strong features. So After discarding you feel good for the moment Honestly, that's how I felt Like I felt really good just for a temporary fix Or supply I guess yeah, it felt good but I Yeah Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yep And it feels good if if only for a little while it feels good to discard someone because you feel in control and it actually The core the core feature of npd is control I think So we're controlling this person and if you unexpectedly dump them They're most likely going to come back to you. You're just controlling him. It's a form of punishment too When you discard someone you're most likely come back anyway What do you think? Yeah, definitely. I agree You know a lot of it is just control it comes from just their own insecurities You know they feel insecure So then they want to discard the victim Right And they want to get there first Right Yeah, and the problem you did a video recently about um when you The one way to drive a narcissist crazy or something is to discard them first I I remember you It's the worst thing you could do. Seriously, you were right Because when my ex-wife did that to me it it frickin it drove me insane I mean, I'm already insane, but it drove me insane her So I mean whatever they do to us That is typically what would hurt them the most Yeah, how they know to do it to us because they it's probably been done to them before Right And it makes them become obsessed too Yes, definitely if they're discarded first Yeah, that's what happened to me. Uh You become obsessed with with them because you want them back to control the outcome Even if they move on you want it you still want to have that control again It's it's all about control mostly That's how you know You you automatically know then You know if the narcissist felt rejected If they felt unloved and appreciated and wanted and needed You automatically know that because they become obsessed They try to hoover you bait you in entice you just so they can reject and punish you Just so they can translate you with someone else Or whatever else they're doing to hurt you It's all because they feel like they're not good enough. They're unlovable They're not wanted. They're not needed That's why they do it Exactly. Yeah Exactly But at the time they're doing it, they don't realize it probably You know, because I know I didn't they may not be conscious of it Right Yeah Have you ever triangulated someone with a new source? Yeah, everybody Well, I'll give you a recent example of my ex-wife. Um, she did my taxes Uh, uh While she was doing um, um I was saying well, maybe your numbers are wrong, you know, obviously I'm starting a fight but also Triangulation is just another strategy to make her feel bad And that's the goal. That's the goal so I was honored all these numbers are off, you know, it's 160 thousand or whatever it was and then I was like, well I'm gonna ask someone else about this. I'm gonna ask katie and she's she's my ex I'd bring her into because she had a tax business And he made my wife feel like an idiot and that's that's just a goal. It's triangulation is to get Jealous get her jealous I know, um, one girl I was talking to and Um, we were seeing each other and I kept mentioning someone else I just wanted to get her jealous to make sure she was jealous, you know And uh, it's again right to make your Well, because another aspect of it is uh, narcissists are so insecure Super super super insecure and It made us feel good to know that we can get this person jealous, you know It's more more fuel or more supply I guess What do you think you would do? Rather than make them feel jealous If you were not insecure, that'd be a normal I'd be a normal person I'd be a normal person, um, did you thank you you would love them? Yeah, but The problem is I I don't Maybe I don't really know what love is like with a partner, you know, maybe I don't know Let's say that So I guess the answer is yes and no Because if you love someone you don't do all that, you know You don't triangulate these people You don't cheat. You don't make them feel bad. Um So and as I always say to my viewers, I mean you know the way they Go off and they flaunt their new source on social media They make it look like oh, I'm happy now now. I'm in love when it's like no Punishing someone and trying to make them feel jealous That has nothing to do with love That's the opposite of love. That's hatred So that's a projection of shame envy jealousy These are all just projections So there is no love there Yeah um I I don't know man. It's it's hard to say like I think I feel like inside All the women I've dated I feel like I was in love maybe one time in my entire life like really truly close to it. Anyway but At the end of the day, I still did Everything conceivable to her cheating lying triangulation So Maybe I don't really fully understand it. I guess you know as far as uh relationship I would like to someday I would like to understand it I would like to feel that I would like to have a drama free life and live a normal life And and have a relationship. I don't know if that's possible like as far as um My family might be different, but a relationship with like Marriage and all that I don't know if that's possible I think it could be possible. I mean From what I know NPD does not have a cure at this time But the behaviors can be changed It's just takes a lot of work And consistent therapy Yeah Yeah, that's the thing um I Kind of believe there is a cure I believe that But I'm not gonna you know Go out of my way to bash people that think different It's just my opinion It's just for me and just what I think might happen in the future I don't think I'm there yet. I think I'm on the way there But I think it's way more than therapy A lot of people that Think therapies and affix everything. Oh, I'm going to therapy. Well, no, it's not just therapy It's behavior changes. It's books Um, it's learning more about it so you can um Understand what you're liable to do to people It uh, there's books. There's videos. There's meditation There's a million different things you could do Um therapy is just not the answer Matter of fact, I never ever ever advise a relationship With a narcissist to just if they agree to therapy that fixes it because that's not going to fix it It's gonna take A lifetime of therapy probably I think so I think so Definitely. Yes. Yes Because it never goes away And in the moment, you know, they don't always have that awareness of what they're doing exactly. I mean Well, they do but they just can't stop themselves because Now there's so much pain And they already know Now to resolve this pain What I have to do is just hurt you provoke you And then instantly I'm going to feel much better. I've got to have that relief As for if I just go off on my own Just forget about you It's going to be far too much pain far too overwhelming for me to deal with this on my own It's so much easier. Just hit you right now And then it's done Yeah Yeah, I'll give you a really a good example is like my My day-to-day is just about trying to hurt someone Um like two well a few years back. That was my that was my goal So I would go down a checklist Like oh, what did she do? Did she leave the dishes, you know, like my ex-wife? Oh Well, maybe my daughter did something wrong or yeah, what did my friend do, you know, what did my friend do? So you go down this list like you have to have everything to be wrong Yeah, oh my god, it's horrible. It's a horrible way to live man. I'm telling you simple trivial things around the house like You know, did they forget to clean the dishes or Did they forget to turn the washing machine on or something like that? Yeah And you're kind of hoping and praying You know, you're like, oh my god. I hope they forgot it, you know Because you you absolutely need that And a lot of people call it supply. It's drama. It's you know It's only a temporary thing that makes us happy. It's not permanent and what about in public like if you go to the the store or A restaurant where you already go in there with like some agenda You know ready to provoke someone to irritate them Or to point out something wrong with them Well, yeah, but culverts are cowardly, you know So they're only gonna pick on like friends and family and people they can get away with so like I'll give you an example like I would hide my ex-wife's purse We'd go this was years ago Like we I'd be like we'd shop and she'd leave it in the cart I'd be like, well, someday that's gonna get stolen And she'd be like, yeah, yeah, whatever and we were in a really good area a really good neighborhood But I would take it and hide it under my jacket or whatever. I'm like, look what you did you idiot. I'm like, you got your So It's terrible But like it was like a a public way to degrade her, you know Right And also proved my point to make sure I'm right Yeah, that's all they really want isn't it it's just to Provoke someone make them feel bad about themselves so that they can feel better And to just prove that they're right That's what that is. Yeah definitely Yeah, it's it's a very sinister disorder because At the time you're doing it, you think you have good intentions. You really do you believe it That's how stupid Coverts can be I'm just gonna teach her a lesson in the long run She'll know never to leave her purse out So I'm just gonna teach her a lesson and it's all coming from a good place, but it's not At the time you believe it I said every abuser has an excuse. They always find some way to justify it Yeah, definitely. Isn't that called gaslighting too? Like yeah, they gaslight themselves Yeah, they're in denial Yeah, because we have to believe something Even if we fool ourselves, we have to justify our behaviors Yeah, we can't just say hey, we're a jerk Yeah, it's the same with anyone you know No matter who they are or you know what mental illness they may have We can only really do what we feel is right if we don't feel that it's right. We can't do it We may know the difference between right and wrong But some people think that they are the exception So it's okay for them to do it Because life was unfair to them or because someone did something to them So they justify it in their minds That's what they make it possible Yeah, that this this order Is so sinister and sneaky that If it wasn't for my daughter and if it wasn't for my friend trying to push me into therapy I would have gaslighted myself You know, oh the therapist is an idiot, you know, I know more than a therapist So It's there's so much to it like so much you don't get like I mean you you understand us, you know in a lot of ways, but you're not a narcissist But you understand us, you know, so You don't have that The same motivations for the things you do that I do You know or that narcissists do Right true. Yes I want to ask another question about New sources Were you ever happier With the new source for real Or was it just an act? I was never happy with anyone like fully Until I lost them, you know, I thought I would have been happy When you're with someone You're not happy you start degrading them and then when they dump you and leave you And another man takes over then you feel bad You're just not going to be happy no matter what like no no matter what you do So like with the new source Maybe in the very beginning You could kind of fake that happiness there because you're you're love bombing that person You know You're doing that love bomb and you fall into that yourself. Well, I do. I mean as an arc, you know, I fall into that Into that love bombing and it feels happy, but but it doesn't last It won't last so to answer that question. No, not fully not a hundred percent You've done several videos on that yourself. Like is the narcissist ever happy with the new supply? It's just an act It's bs Yeah, then they're never really happy It's just an act. I mean they they can make it look like they are But it's you know, it's you've got to look at it like Why are they trying to prove it so much? Why is it that important for them? To go out of their way to show you That they're so much happier with this new person I mean if they were really happy would they really need to do that? Probably not It would exactly what you think about it Exactly The fact that they care so much it just shows that they're not happy at all Exactly But I can just say for me, I've never really fully a hundred percent been happy, you know Like with the new supply But I obviously I really really positively need everyone to believe that Even if it's temporary Yeah, have you ever felt like you wanted to return To the old source While you were with the new source All the time. Yeah, because we have no loyalty But were there times where you know, I don't mean where you then hoovered. I mean Where you're with the new source And you're going ahead with them At the same time you pretend to be happy and you're wanting to go back but you don't um Not really Not really If I'm if I'm with somebody I don't know. I don't I don't feel like I need to be loyal. I guess I don't feel like if I'm in a relationship. I don't feel like I have to be loyal Although I know that So what I meant I'm talking about more You know, when you found a new source you've discarded the old person You know, you're moving on portraying it as though it's a better situation To you know, the old source. That's what you want But in spite of that Have you ever actually felt like it wasn't a better situation? Even though yeah Well, definitely, yeah, of course, you don't want people to know that You know, that's what I've seen of my own experience. It's like You know, I've been with narcissists and you know, they look so comfort and going off somewhere else and I'm I'm like Can't place it in my heads thinking How could this be a better situation for you? It's not Yeah No, definitely There's been situations that have been worse, but nobody nobody needs to know that, you know But you you knew that at the time Well, yeah Right But you you were misleading the old source at the same time Yeah Yeah, but you know, we always will try to hoover of course. Yeah, you know Like I was leaving a lot from this I'm sure a lot of people who are watching this they never would have thought That a narcissist, you know, they're going off in one direction Acting as though they're living their best lives. There's so much happier with this new source Not always A lot of times they know that it's worse. It's just because of their pride and ego They'll still just go off even though they know it's worse They will sell for a worse situation Rather than it being at the expense of their pride and arrogance right Definitely Which is just crazy. What do you think about it? But that's what they do Yeah Yeah, definitely like Financially, I'll just give you one example like uh one of my exes was was completely wealthy and then one was completely broke Like but I didn't want I wanted to put on an act like oh, it's not so bad, but it was terrible like Maybe not terrible. Just a different situation. It's not as good as before um even though Hmm Definitely. Yes. Yes. I agree Because we know it's bad or we know the new source is is a cheater or whatever it is, you know And we know that and it's worse, but we're not going to admit that, you know Could we have a lot of pride? It's kind of like the same thing as um I don't know just Go in from a five-star hotel I just pretend like that's nothing. That's not that great But then you just go and check into a one-star hotel and you're like, oh wow the bed's so comfortable here Right Rubbish I Yeah I remember when I was young I had a girl that had a bunch of brand new cars They had all this money and then I was with someone that was broke Well, the thing is like To go back into hoover and cheat was not a problem for me not a problem at all But the thing is like Right. Oh, it's terrible. It's terrible. I admit it's terrible Man I I just want to say I've never seen anyone on youtube that knows narks like you do You know even voknen Uh Like you have you you say things that like I've already done. I'm like, oh my god. How did you know that? I don't know Would you believe that he declined to do an interview with me as well? Yeah, yeah, that's him to do an interview through email We had a few messages back and forth Some long paragraphs, but in the games he declined Wow, you know, what's even funnier is that I emailed him a couple years ago when I first got my diagnosis He didn't respond to me So at least you got responses I think with me, you know, because I I have quite a few subscribers maybe But um, you know, I I wanted to Really dig deep into his Claim of being a self-aware narcissist And I was trying to say how can A narcissist be self-aware You know, I at the time I was I was thinking isn't that One of the main traits is that they are not self-aware And he just didn't want to discuss that then But um, you know, I don't believe that so much now You know, I recognize that yes, they can be self-aware Yeah, they could still be jerks and still be self-aware about it You remember when him and uh, Richard Granin were like a tag team for a while there You know, I'm talking about I think they're still doing it No, they hate each other's guts now Yeah, I hope we don't get like that Hopefully this doesn't get too many views and then Richard Granin watches it Oh my god, man, that's true. I didn't think about that. Oh my god Oh, man, I just ruined you I didn't do it on purpose this time. Wow. I just thought of that Because he was Oh my god He's from not too far away from me. He's in Liverpool Yeah, I'm from Wales You're from Wales. Okay Yeah, he's he seems like, you know, he's a stuff too. I I think I think maybe you And then maybe Vaknin know more about it than anyone else on youtube anyway that I've seen You know um, the reason I'm saying you is you're able to explain it much better and more concise and clear Then Vaknin, I think For the most part Oh, but I love Vaknin. Don't get me wrong. I don't why I'm coming after you He was the first one I found on youtube to learn about myself I was Oh, Sam Vaknin What's that? Who was the first one that you found on youtube? I found okay, uh, first one on youtube was a guy called, um Early morning barking And he Huh Right. I'm not You've heard of him No, no, I I haven't heard of it Well, he was the first one And I think he he has a bpd and npd So it didn't quite fit me So he wasn't quite what I needed And then I saw a youtube short that you did This was years ago about Let's see how the narcissist feels when you do it back to them something like that I was like, oh, wow, was this guy and then I started watching your videos from there It was that initial short it was a A short video you did and you're like They want to give you the silent treatment. Oh, that's what it was. It was a silent treatment Like why don't you do it back to them? See how they like it? I was like, oh my god. That's what I need. I need someone like that Then I started watching your videos And then I found lee hammock Oh lee hammock, yeah Yeah, I like um, uh, what's what's all the another one? Um Mel robbins is another one And she did a live stream with um romany Dr. Romney dr. Romney, yes Actually, I like dr. Romney believe it or not She's really good Yeah, she's great She's been around forever too Yeah, she started around The same time as me I believe Yeah, but I mean she was a therapist for a long time like The youtube thing I don't yeah, I guess it was around when you started 2018 right Yeah, it was um Yeah, it was sometime in In 2018. Yes, and I was watching her videos and not long after I began my channel then Your first video is was narcissists are haters No, no that was um That was about one year in maybe more Oh video was on the 16th of august 2018 Okay, something like the narcissist Doesn't want you to look or feel good Okay That's the first one I see on youtube for some reason always comes up I don't know why So someone in your live chat says Can you pronounce my name? Arnav chat Chot I can't I don't know if you can Arnav chelhan Is that it? Chot chelhan. Oh, yeah, you did it chelhan. Yeah Okay, they wish that we would talk about emotional intelligence I don't know emotional and mature I I do have just A few more questions that I would like to ask Which I think this is there will be very helpful for the viewers And it's about um smear campaigns Okay, you've begun any smear campaigns No, I have I um, let me think here. Um Yeah, I did um with my ex-wife a few years ago. I did actually I started uh Going to going to her parents and Why did you do that? Why Yes Um Well part of it is to shift blame So I wanted to shift the blame off of me And make her look like a bad person. That was a real goal of mine at the time We were having problems completely blaming her for it So that was that was one of the big things back then To make myself look good. I wanted to make myself look perfect You know, this is all her doing it. So I would smear her name. Oh, you know She's going to delete herself. She's crazy. She's this she's that Then I would go to my friends and do the same thing That's all that is that's all it really is is shifting the blame Narcissists, they already know that it's them. They know they're bad. They're wrong They're just trying to shift it on to you through the use of the smear campaign And it's like Many of you get confused when they devalue you you're thinking up All of these things are wrong with me. Let me improve. Let me become better And then I don't know. Maybe you get a good job They get you fired from your job You start a new business. They ruin that for you That's very confusing. It's like I thought you wanted me to be better No, they're just shifting the blame on to you. They know it's already them They already know that Exactly, yeah And it's to also make ourselves look better too You know, because we are we are perfect. We're perfect. So We're trying to make ourselves better The flawless free from blame Exactly, yeah It's all fake None of it is real No, absolutely not Like uh, the only one is the victim that is real in the smear campaign Yeah That's true I remember going to her boss at the time and I remember I was Messaging her boss, but her boss didn't respond to me so I was like I was like, oh man and then I I mean this was years ago, but I remember doing that um I was like you want to be careful around her, you know and Trying to smear her and get her in trouble at work or whatever it was at the time Um, yeah It's pretty terrible it is I mean to be a campaign, you know that can ruin a person's life and it's like Yeah, just so the narcissist can preserve their false image So they don't have to look bad for all of the things that they've done And they could have been late in lying abusing future faking someone For 10 20 years And then and again they dropped the smear campaign on them When they start to figure things out Yeah, it's That's a messed up tactic Gosh, I'll I'll never do things like that again. I know I won't But looking back What? It's crazy, you know when you think about it like Someone could be in an abusive relationship their entire lives it could be for 50 years of abuse Emotional manipulation lying future faking all of these tactics And then even at the end of it they start to figure things out They think oh Now I realize I've been abused all this time and it's not my fault now. I can finally be free. I can finally live my life And it's like No Now the narcissist will drop a smear campaign on you Even though you may have been abused for 50 years It's not the end. It's just the beginning right It's uh, it's just a pain game Basically, it's crazy Just like it never ends For some of these victims Yeah I know I'll never do that stuff again, but like at the time You justify your actions You justify it at the time I'm just trying to tell people what she did I don't know You're making the steps to change so You know, it's definitely a step in the right direction recognizing that it's self-destructive And you're trying to be better Yeah, I have been for the last few years. Yeah, definitely It's it's not easy though. Um, it's a daily battle But I know I'll never do the things I used to do. I know that for sure But what did you think of your enablers and your flying monkeys, you know, these people who were running around doing your Your bidding acting on your behalf What what did you think of those people? Did you? Have any respect for them? Did you care about them at all? Yeah, they were a tool that I used to um further my cause. Yeah I manipulated them too, of course, you know They're victims too They're all just tools Yeah, unfortunately Yeah, it's uh Another person that you manipulate they think that they're helping you out, but they're Part of the smear campaign or the flying monkeys or whatever. They're part of that, but they They don't always have evil intentions either They're just being manipulated too because I come out as the Person that was the victim even though the other person is them It's a real victim. Yeah, but no one realizes that so they're all being tricked. They're all they're all In some warped false reality and they don't even know it the only person who is actually in the real world Is the real victim who they are all targeting You can't even see it Right, and you know, that's a good point. I want to point out what's something real quick though I always tell people to never go to therapy With the narcissist because they'll even manipulate the therapist they were Lawyers is everyone Yeah, that's one of the biggest mistakes people make. Ah, they want to go to therapy. I'll go with them They'll use the therapist as they're flying monkey As a tool that person And the person is a victim The narcissist made them a victim and a therapist a victim Definitely, I mean I've said before in one of my live videos a narcissist was Manipulate the entire world and everyone in it Making them all of them They're flying monkeys and enablers Before they ever even think to change anything Bad or negative about themselves right They would change the entire world if they had the power to manipulate everyone in the world Making them all they're flying monkeys. They would do that creating A literal fake world by that point They had the power to do that of course definitely Yeah, a lot a lot of people want to go to therapy and that's that's one of the biggest mistakes That can make in their lives. They don't realize what they're going to get into If you want if a narcissist really wants to change and really wants to go to therapy They have to do it for themselves With themselves and only themselves for themselves You know So how did you really feel about your Enablers and flying monkeys? Did you feel like these people are your your equals or your Your subordinates you you felt subordinate to them Subordinates So they're like beneath you in terms of position Definitely in terms of everything. Yeah, definitely Makes sense. But then what about the victim? Is the victim you see them as your subordinate as well? Definitely. Yeah Almost like But that that confused me because then I think You know if it's you as the narcissist and then you've got all of these enablers and flying monkeys Against one person How can that one person be a subordinate? If it takes all of these people just to target the one person I don't know we don't see that though It doesn't make any sense people man. Come on I mean if it was just you against one person no one else involved And you know, you've got the better of them I can kind of see it then that you know, they would be your subordinate if it's like 50 flying monkeys and just one target I would see it as though no matter what happens to that one target That person is in the superior role because it takes all of these people just to try and manipulate and control them Yeah Yeah, but we're on opposite sides here because you're you're the empath on the narcissist So we see it differently How do you see it now? Now that you're awakened How do I see it is that? Well, I wish I was like you You know, narcissists are not happy, right? Of course. Yes. I am aware of that. I mean I've said before How a person treats us that's a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves I mean a happy person They're going to love you. They're going to treat you very well. They're going to respect you. They're going to appreciate you Yeah What is the old saying that those who try to bring you down are already beneath you That's it definitely They have to be beneath you first to be able to bring you down Yeah I just don't want to be like that anymore. That's all I know. I don't want to infect my children I don't want to I don't want to bring people down anymore. I don't I don't know what's going to happen I just know I don't feel the same way anymore. That's all I know I don't feel that desire But I don't know what what'll happen in the future if it'll ever happen again, but I don't feel it anymore. I don't feel that desire I know it sounds weird, but I actually like peace and quiet Really? Yeah, you can't believe that, right? So you're okay being alone with your own thoughts Right Just the peace and quiet what I didn't have as a child Well You appreciate as well now I do more than ever, but as a child I never had that Every day was a fight. Every day was a beating or something So, right So maybe you found some way to regulate yourself I don't know what it is though. I I just don't feel the same way I think I think God helped me a lot Well, I believe in God Um, even though I called myself a demigod years ago I do believe in God, you know Do you ever feel like maybe You didn't have a soul before But now you do I don't know about now, but yeah, definitely I agree with that Because if I was wondered, I mean, you know, that would be the only possible conclusion really for I mean for an artist to to have a void And then suddenly they're full of something It's like where did that come from? The void No, well, I mean You know what fills this void What fills it now you mean I have no idea. I just don't feel the same way Like I don't think I'm doing it even for my children in some ways. I think It's such a harmful self-destructive Disorder. I just don't think I Would live much longer going the way I was. That's all I know I think it is something connected to to God or higher power. You know, that's what I believe It might be yeah, maybe Because there is no other earthly explanation for it When if a person has a void and it's like nothing can fill it They're always looking to external things and then You know, they go through a process of healing and then You know something Exists from where there was nothing before How is that possible? If there was nothing there before how could there be something there now? I don't know. Maybe it is God Well to tell you the truth like I didn't start really fully believing in God until The last two years I guess I believed in a spirit and a power But I didn't fully grasp it or understand it Maybe that might have something to do with it having that belief in God, maybe maybe maybe Uh, I mean, you know, there's other factors like therapy books videos meditation Opposite action therapy um I don't know. It could be God. It could be Uh, because there was nothing there There was a numbness there like a Like a shell like a blackness like nothingness It's come on. I know it's like I I was raised as a Baptist and I know about God and religion, but I didn't really turn to it until I got diagnosed You know, I thought well Maybe maybe God would help me through this, you know Maybe God would help me and that was like my initial thoughts When I went back to therapy that was my initial thoughts Because I don't think when you're trying to solve a problem as big as npd I don't think it's just there's one answer to it. I think there's got to be multiple You can't just do one thing to fix it Because it's such a massive problem. It's a part of my personality The void of the nothingness to numbness Never being happy never being satisfied So me maybe You might be right. Maybe it is God. I don't know But I was like embracing it more. I started going to church with my son after my diagnosis Well, maybe that's what it was Yeah, I could believe that I haven't actually thought about it until you mentioned it too much I think God has the power to do anything really I mean I do believe in God's and I believe that God can heal anyone Yeah Higher power. Yes, of course I mean that that's what it means to be a believer All things are possible through Christ And I think that anyone You know if a narcissist is becoming self aware they're trying to change the going to therapy And You're standing in the way of that and trying to prevent them from changing To me that is demonic if anything You know From elevating and being better Definitely nothing to do with God I mean God would allow their growth and their development So You know that's that's my belief on it You know, there's some guy on youtube Danish, I think his name is and he says that We're possessed by demons like He's a lot of weird things on his channel like that I wonder I wonder if that might There might be some truth there or something like that. I said that myself in my own videos I did a live video just the other day on that I've only been seeing it recently But yeah, I do believe that It could potentially be a demonic possession, you know, especially for some narcissists I've seen it when they rage And it's like you just can't get through to them. You can't reach them, you know, not like how we're Converting now You know, you're very easy to talk to You understand a lot of what I'm saying. You don't get triggered You don't rage. I mean right It's not like that with You know regular narcissists I wouldn't be able to talk to them like this at all and yeah With your body of work, I know It has to be difficult for you, you know to To converse like this, you know, it has to be Because everything you've been through with with narcissists, you know Um, it actually isn't difficult for me as you know, as people may think Because um, I guess, you know, because I I do believe in a higher power. I believe in God Of course, I believe that people can change That they deserve the right to change About anyone who is standing in their way In the beginning, I can understand, you know, people may be a bit resistant To their development that may be thinking up. What about all of the things they've done? But at some point it's like, you know, you just got to get over it and accept it That this person is aware now. They're trying to grow. They're trying to change I mean, you know, we we do have to forgive At some point if someone is really trying to change for the better Yeah, they're trying to make it right. Let them make it right Yeah, it's a shame. I get a lot of emails and questions about npd abuse and um, That was why I started The channel, uh, narcissists x when I started it That was the name of it because we're cursed That's the hectic part. That's why I named it that Because that's how I felt when I first got diagnosed with it it's like, uh Narcissist hex and then the hex part is the curse part because we're cursed And we don't know it. We don't understand it. We don't realize it So we're doing these things to harm people because I don't know people say we're possessed or whatever, but we're cursed. That's what I believe uh A lot of people go through as culverts and overt narcs and they don't realize what they're doing They're they're they're hexed and cursed. I believe in that I believe in that really strongly Because I was only doing this to preserve the relationship But I was killing my partner in so many ways, you know By degrading the person Right You don't want it to end But at the same time you're harming them And you're harming yourself I believe it's a it's a form of death. I believe A death by a thousand paper cuts a million paper cuts I believe that But you want to bring the person so far down. They'll never leave you That's the goal That's why we're cursed with that Yeah, no matter what they do They'll never Do anything right ever So we have to drag them down as far as possible But I don't know I don't know if there's a cure. I don't you know, most people think there is I think I think it can be cured but um I don't I don't think it's an easy road. I don't think it's uh, something that can happen overnight I don't think a marriage could work through it. I don't I don't know if a marriage could survive it, you know It's such a sinister disorder It is And only that it's the way that um Well, most narcissists they tend to get worse with age From yeah before research I mean, you know As with um, you know, there's so much research on bullies and how bullying affects the bully And it actually affects them Far more than their own victims. I I did a video recently on Um House mirror campaigns will destroy narcissists and their flying monkeys And I mentioned all of these statistics For example, there's one That states that bullies are at a 10 to 25 times risk More than their own victims of developing a psychiatric condition Which may include a mental illness like sociopathy or psychopathy I have not heard that one yet Yeah, it's a recent video I did my first pre-recorded video on the channel it's um House mirror campaigns destroying narcissists or flying monkeys And yes, the the bully or the narcissist The abuse that they inflict It's damaging them 10 to 25 times more than their own victims So you think when when someone comes to you and they insult you they they harm you in some way The best revenge is just to let them go and just walk off with all the the damage that they've just inflicted on themselves Yeah So narcissists are basically bullies too So we're doing more damage to ourselves Definitely a narcissist is a bully And yeah, this is real research studies that have shown I mean, you know 10 to 25 times more risk of developing a psychiatric condition Than their own victims that they are abusing and inflicting harm onto Wow, and this is just That's just one effect, you know As well as that it involves all kinds of Relationship and family issues and then there's um Increases the likelihood of developing addictions such as tobacco alcohol recreational drugs and also depression suicidal ideation And children who inherit the same Traits of being a bully and then the cycle starts all over again So nothing good comes out of Bullying punishing narcissistic behavior All of this is self-destructive And many psychologists on youtube have stated that as well There's one from islands I believe also dr. Romney Richard granan. They've all said narcissism is Self-destructive and I've said myself Only love wins in the end And it really does Yeah Love and god. Yeah, I think so I mean That makes perfect sense, you know, if you love something you take care of it I mean as within so without How we treat people as a direct reflection of how we feel about ourselves So we love ourselves. We take care of ourselves That means we love other people we take care of them If you love something you preserve it it grows Into something beautiful And if you bully if you harm You're harming yourself at the same time It just produces death destruction Decay Yeah, you had mentioned something about that One of your videos you said a narcissist always gets their karma Um, and then another one was uh, this is the best revenge for narcissists Uh to leave them alone and discard them And then the karma is definitely Because we do get our karma we have to live this way Yes, they are their own karma I mean that that's for anyone who bullies you anyone who wants to harm you You just got to think that You know the fact that they're doing that they really are their own karma And yeah The worst thing you can do for them is just to leave them alone and let them go off on their own Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves Definitely When I um started going to church after my diagnosis I started feeling um Less of that numb numbing void I guess and then like What you're saying with karma That's that's definitely true It's an exhausting lifestyle to live relationship to relationship having to move again By a different house. It's like You can't your body's not ever settled you're not ever Satisfied or happy, you know that isn't that karma enough like what you Preach, you know, you preach that You can't really get revenge on a narcissist, you know What what what can you do? What can you do to us? You just have to leave us alone, you know If you're in a relationship with them you have to leave them alone And they'll get their karma and and it's actually proven And you're right. You did do a video on that I started to watch it I remember the more you talk about it No, you're right. I mean you can't really punish a narcissist. I mean it's like like we were speaking about earlier If a narcissist was in a five star hotel, they went down to a one star hotel They would still just be in denial. They wouldn't really be experiencing You know that that difference in They would just be so out of touch with it that It wouldn't even be a punishment They would just right Yeah, I'm sure that you know, there's probably so many narcissists in jail Who are just having a great time in there laughing joking Making friends. They don't even care Right So it's a waste of time Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that my My older brother was in prison for many years. She didn't really give a crap, you know True narcissists. They really just don't even care they will make do that. They'll find a way to Get used to it You know another part of that is now that you're talking about this is that We absolutely expect the worst so Whatever you could do to us bring it on but we expect it so we We don't have a positive life, you know Expecting the worst thing to happen yet Nothing you can do can really measure up to what they're already expecting you to do really Exactly, but even then they thrive in dysfunctional environments Oh my god. Yeah, they thrive in that they they do not thrive in functional environments So when you're punishing them it's like You know some of them they're having a great time They're enjoying it. They're like, yeah, bring it on, you know less Yeah, because we know that you're dragging yourself down too Yeah, yeah, they love to see To see us go down with them as well You're stupid to our level and we love that That's it It's more control too and we love that like for me like I haven't been like, um Much of a victim. I've always been like the bully. I guess you could say You know So it's hard to see it from what you're saying. It's hard to understand it. I guess Right And then at times when people do try to bully me. It's such a shock But I honestly I would expect nothing else, you know, so it doesn't bother me too much Because you feel like you deserve it anyway, so Right People try to get revenge on us and it's never gonna work. It'll never work It only works if you feel like you don't deserve it, but but they already feel like they do Huh They already feel like they deserve it after everything they've done because deep down they know what they've done, so Yeah We expect to be punished eventually anyway, so But the best thing I think for most people to understand is um Hopefully to just not get into a relationship with them That's the best thing to avoid it It's very similar to quicksand The more you get into it the harder it is to get out of it. It's just better not to get into it to begin with And That's another reason why I started my channel is to Warm people off of the things that we do From the very beginning you could you could tell a narcissist. Can't you by now? Like how long does it take you to tell For for you being who you are chris Um Yeah, normally I can I can tell quite quickly but then You know sometimes if if they're they're quite attractive or charming. It's like I don't really want to know it's like yeah, okay. They seem quite narcissistic, but You know, they're very beautiful Hahaha There might be an exception there I'm sure many people can relate to that saying You know, that's just how it goes sometimes, isn't it? We just like It's like yeah, yeah, I know I know not so I ever said this about narcissists Oh, this one's this one's quite attractive. I uh Maybe I can let this slide Hahaha Well, at least you know what to expect so most people don't your way ahead of most people anyway I always say it depends on how they treat people that Can't really do much to them Like an example would be like if you go to a restaurant with them and they're snapping at the wait staff The waitress or waiter You know that that could be a sign They want control that that's not a not a good sign You could tell Sorry You could tell like how they treat other people You know and how they act how they tell you about how their exes are insane and crazy But it's not their exes, you know, it's them That's another red flag Yeah, they just like to project and shift the blame To protect the whole thing. Yes exactly Should we give the viewers Some time to ask You a few questions Because I'm sure as they've been watching this They probably have some questions of the room So how do you feel about that? Is that okay? You know, yeah Yeah, I could get quite unpredictable, though But knowing my viewers they I know a lot of you can be quite curious And I'm sure especially now that we have a diagnosed COVID narcissist on here Okay, please address the lack of empathy Okay Basically We do have some forms of empathy but Like I have some forms of it. I don't have the amount maybe that chris has But I have some forms of it It's normal to us So to address it would just be like well That's just how it is for us Like I don't know any better, but I do believe that I have Certain amount of empathy. I do believe that Right. Yeah, it's like As I've said in my videos, there's um a cognitive empathy that narcissists have and actually Narcissists have more cognitive empathy than empaths Who actually very have very little of that Which is just reading into another person's emotions Like you know what they're feeling, but you don't feel it as though it's your own That's right a fact of empathy which empaths have a lot have Narcissist don't have any of that We don't have enough to like stop harming people sometimes But I do have some Yes, the cognitive empathy, but with the affective empathy that's like You know, like if you if you were driving down the streets, you saw like a A dog crossing the road And a car was just about to hit the dog For me as an empath I'd probably be like jumping out of my seat You know feeling it as though it's about to Like a car's about to hit me You know, you feel it as though it's happening to you You know, if you have high amounts of affective empathy Like empaths But with narcissists it's kind of They're just completely cold You know, they could just leave you to just Lay on the bed crying And they won't feel anything Right, they know you're going through something You know, they can read into it No, you're absolutely right Because I've done that to my ex-wife like I could see her crying and just be like well That's her problem not my problem It's to be it as though it's your pain Exactly But I think I have developed more Um Gosh, I think I've developed more empathy And I think I have some But you know, I'm talking two years ago two and a half years ago I would say you're a hundred percent correct. I didn't I didn't feel anything You know So ace clean Said how do you feel when you're discarded or rejected? Well, chris you did a video on this not too long ago and it drives us and It's horrible It drives us You just did that the other day Yeah It's one of the actually it's one of the worst things you could do to a narcissist Is to discard the narcissist and ignore them It's one of the worst things because you're taking away all their power all of it Yeah, the video you did the other day is spot on That's right. I mean, you know, that's why if you do rejected narcissists they get obsessed. They stalk It's not a sphere campaigns Because there's nothing to hurt them. Oh, isn't it? Yeah, because we lost control And we need that control Yeah, you're absolutely correct That video you did I I couldn't sit through because it was Kind of scary Now the truth is getting out Because you you're calling us out you're you're telling the truth on us now How to how to hurt us the worst way possible Gosh Yeah I'm so happy you're doing it though, man. I'm so happy. I'm so happy that you did that. I'm so happy you started your channel You know You're helping so many people I wish I had that reach that you do but man you change some you change a lot of people's lives You know, I'm so happy you're doing these videos You could get it You know, I'm sure your channel will grow in the future You know, you just got to keep putting out the content Giving the viewers what they need Yeah Yeah, they need uh, they need awareness and they need the truth, you know And some of them unfortunately they need they need to um, Believe in god that they can overcome it That's what I believe And it looks like, you know, there's there's clearly a demand for this type of video on here as well So maybe we could do this again in the future. I mean, we've got 154 live viewers right now Yeah, someone said kill who'd said chris is amazing Thank you So we're not getting a ton of oh wait you yet. Okay. We got a question Have you frozen eyes turn black when confronted? Uh, no You've seen it Yes, I have I I know what they're talking about where it's like You know, when you confront them You know, you just Hold them up to something they said or did that was hurtful Or were they trying to harm you? You try to hold them accountable And then it's like they just kind of stop In that moment and the eyes just widen And they go black And it's just like you're just looking into like You feel like you're looking Into the depths of the void and you're being sucked into it And then It's like they've sucked the energy out of you and then they explode it back on you with the rage So that's yeah Well, okay, I have to believe it because I've never seen it But I I'm not looking in the mirror when I'm So it's probably a question for you to answer. I don't see my eyes. Maybe they do turn black Yeah, there is some talk about it on youtube. There's a few videos I talk about how the narcissist eyes goes goes black it's kind of like that moment of Of self-reflection, you know, there's like a there's a split second window Where narcissists do self-reflect And you know, that's what causes the narcissistic injury and the rage Is that they've just reflected on their shame and their insecurities? Ah, yeah, I don't see if you resonate with that in your own experience You know, like when someone confronted you or they try to hold you accountable for something It's like that split second you knew That they were right and you were wrong I thought you were bad and you felt bad But then you just had to fight it and say no, no, it's you Yeah, yeah, you're right, but God that's terrible Yeah, you're right Oh my gosh, um, yeah So like I'll give you an example like I did something with my ex-wife and then uh She confronted me. I did something to her and she confronted me on it. I knew she was right and she caught me dead in the water And I started bringing up everything from her childhood to her past Everything I could think of to not take responsibility for this, you know So I was like, oh I was making up stuff to get around it, but you're right. It was like for two or three seconds there. I was like Wait a minute. Damn it. She caught me. Okay She's right. I'm wrong Like first, I'm like, oh my god. I can't accept it because it's um, it leaves the false self without any support or validation So then you gotta hurry up and try and trick them and gas like them So that they do end up validating, you know, the false self and the illusion Because it can't be self-validated Someone has to validate it and that's why it's like if they don't buy into the story Gotta throw all of the pressure intimidation the threats and just be like You know, I'm gonna call the police They're gonna get you in trouble. I'm gonna say you did this. You're trying to hurt me Just anything they can possibly think of to trick you into validating the illusion Because in that when they're so insecure, they can't validate themselves Yeah, I feel like I don't have like my shirt on or something like totally exposed Like it's crazy Uh It's just so hard to take responsibility when you must things up. It's you know Again, like you had that thing with your jacket in the car with the cat urine Like it was a mistake to not clean it or whatever I could never do that. I don't think I could ever That was in one of my recent live videos where I If I had the Like white jacket on As well as like cat pee Yeah, so I had to take it off Yeah, that's totally vulnerable and I don't I don't know if I can ever get to that level, you know So to backtrack a little bit somebody asked how I became a narcissist and what happened And I don't want to veer too off track because it was a question from Swirl 8811 I think it was And they wanted to know How I became this way So to sum it up it was a childhood trauma childhood abuse Being bullied being degraded being humiliated The false self came out as a sort of protection to protect me And Myself confidence to act like I'm something but deep down. I know I'm nothing like that To sum it up childhood trauma and abuse splintered family and abuse And you got a two dollar donation chris Yes, thank you. Pete. Don't repeat. I appreciate it Uh, do you use word seller to confuse? Definitely. Yes That's our go-to tactic. Yeah Yeah, especially if you're trying to like find out the truth about something Uh, if we can confuse you and and keep you off balance all the better word salad. Yeah, definitely Yeah Yeah It's to confuse. I think word salad is uh, correct me if I'm wrong chris. Is it not a form of gas lighting? um Yes, yes, I would say so Okay, it's intended to Make the target doubt the memory or the perception and the sanity As long as you're off balance and we don't have to take responsibility. Yeah, we'll use word salad. That that's good enough for sure Uh manipulation, of course. Yeah Someone say manipulation I think we we need to bring this interview to a close now Maybe one more question If there's one more question there And then I think we will do another interview In the future as well if you would like to Yeah, I would love to yeah Because there's clearly a demand for it Definitely we have a question from the viewers Okay, chris made it happen So a rani, I don't know if you could see it or if you want to take it Is this a humbling experience? Okay, I think that's really a question Were you ever with your own kind? Oh, that's a good one Um Matter of fact, I believe I was yes um I believe one of my ex-partners was a narcissist I'm not sure of what kind but she used Now looking back on it. I understand it, but at the time she used triangulation Um word sale Gaslight all these things, but at the time I was trying to do it back to her Um, so it didn't work out. It didn't last It was only a few months. So We were destroying each other So Uh, I think they can work though. It depends on the type of narcissist I mean that's the thing if you look at the family dynamics and um You know when they move on to a new source It seems like they prefer to be around their own kinds You know people who are fake and inauthentic You know, they don't want to be around a real person who's constantly exposing them all of the time Right Yeah, that would make us uncomfortable It's better to be with uh, you know another maybe like a grandiose narc who's All about fantasies and illusions and just you know living a lie living in denial just presented a false image It makes more sense as I'm to gravitate towards that Definitely um but I know this is off subject a little bit on a narcissist Well, most of them will just take whatever is available for the most part Yeah Honestly, it's not like we have a specific type We have a way of sniffing vulnerability and weakness If you're weak and vulnerable, we could tell and we could feel it and we we could take advantage of that definitely Yes, yes, I agree. I mean that's more um sociopaths and psychopaths They do have a specific type and they will wait around for years In solitude until they find that But narcissists they will settle for anything they can find That's all you have to be alone Yeah, exactly. And if you're vulnerable and you're easy, yes, definitely that that makes our lives easier, but it's not like, um We'll just take what we can get you know, basically. Yeah Yeah So there's that, um Do you want to do another question or you want to get it over with? Um No, I think we should leave it there for today I mean this interview has gone on a bit longer than expected What was the oh my god? Yeah to to Wow, okay, we can we can do more another time Yeah Do you mind if I mention my channel name? Sure. Yes. Yes, you can Okay, um, please subscribe to narcissists hex And god bless everybody be safe out there. Happy new year And chris it was nice talking to you man You're such a genuine. Thank you for being here Yeah, I appreciate your time man. You're such a such a good person a genuine person like that comes across in almost all your videos Unless you have Yeah, I appreciate it man. Um So that uh two dollars. Do I get the two dollars or do you? Are we split that? All right, I'll let you go though. Um, hope everyone has a happy new year Thank you. I think I speak for everyone when I say that you have been, you know a positive representation Of a diagnosed narcissist Yeah, I try Yeah, thank you so much though. I appreciate your time. I appreciate everyone that came in today Thank you And uh chris, uh, don't ever change Keep doing what you're doing. We need more people like you Don't worry. I will Okay. All right. Bye everybody Bye Happy new year Happy new year All right, I hope everyone enjoyed this interview today Something different. I thought it would be beneficial for all of you To see this um live interaction with me and A self aware diagnosed COVID narcissist So yeah, it's a very Unique interview. I mean, I don't think there's many like this on youtube so far. I hope that It was helpful to you And if it was you can show your support down below By giving it a thumbs up It would only take you two seconds to do that So please show your supports And let me know what you thought about it in the comment section below I am reading your comments every day And hit the subscribe button click all notifications So that you will be notified When I upload a new video Or when me and jack go live again in the future And if you'd like to book a one-on-one coaching session with me, just go to my website It is narksviber.co.uk You can also follow me on instagram. It's narksviber youtube. All right. Thank you all for joining me On this live interview I look forward to speaking with you in another live video very soon