 We moved to presentation on Digital Sri Lanka by Mr. Arunesh Preeter, Chief of Project Information and Communication Technology Agency of Government of Sri Lanka. Mr. Arunesh Preeter has over 20 years of experience in Information and Communication Technology. He started his ICD career straight after school as a programmer of business systems. A diversified career in ICD has followed covering systems development and implementations. Solution sales, brand management, system integration, project management and ICD consistency. He has worked for leading international and local technology companies. He currently leaves over 40 projects in the Digital Sri Lanka initiative, covering infrastructure, capacity building, citizen initiatives, digital government, security and private sector gathering. His passion is people transformation and his current slogan is transforming a nation by transforming his people. Over to you Arunesh Preeter. A couple of things that you need to understand, I am not going to go into detail. Detail is a discussion that covers a couple of things. So let's not go into that. What I would like to do is talk about what Digital Sri Lanka is all about and what is the thinking behind. And how we actually looked at the approach and how we approached it considering the Sri Lankan context. So please forgive me, I am not going to talk about architecture also. To a very little extent only I will talk about it. But I will not talk about what we are doing and why we are doing it. Because I think that is very, very important. So the most important thing is I believe that a nation has to have a vision. I believe that if you don't have a vision, you perish. That is the fact that is proven again and again. And it is important to have a correct vision. In most cases the nations look at different types of vision. But the most important asset the nation has is not its geographical location. Not the commodities that it has. Not agriculture but its people. And it is actually very hard to know that the government has a vision that is based completely on transforming people. Which again is very close to my heart as you said earlier. So the vision is towards a creative knowledge based society. The government wants to have its citizens to have creative knowledge based capability. It is not just knowledge based. Sri Lanka has over the years delivered a lot of content through teaching. But not very effective. So how do we transform it? And that is by bringing the creativity in. So let me go on to the next one. So what is our vision within this? How does the ICTA actually do it? To give you an idea of the ICTA, the ICTA's main role is to be the advisory and implementation body for ICTA's Sri Lanka. So the government depends on us for advice, direction, policy advice on ICTA's. So how do we as an organization actually deliver the vision of the government? And that is by bringing the technology in. So our vision is a digitally inclusive Sri Lanka. Transforming Sri Lanka through creative knowledge based society through digital empowerment. The word transformation is key. The reason is key is we cannot, we don't have time to evolve. Sri Lanka has not moved forward in a lot of areas for the last couple of years. And therefore we are now currently playing catch up. Just to give an indication in the ego index, the UN. In 2012, we were under 12. In 2014, we jumped to 75. And that is basically a lot of things to do with someone's services. But you need to understand it's how you actually market it and make it available in terms of making it up. Now we move back to 79. So this is actually an eye opener for us in terms of what are we doing, where are we going. And as a nation, how are we going to actually transform? So how do we actually get this technology right across? So what we've done is we looked at transformation needs inspiration, right? You cannot do transformation by yourself. You look at others in terms of how have they transformed. So we looked at two very clear examples of transformation that we would like to emulate. But of course with Sri Lankan play, one is simple. In 1948, this is a funny case study, but a rather painful one for Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka was the case study for Singapore's transformation. So in 1948, in 1954, we came to Sri Lanka to study our systems. It took a lot of our brains also. The first qualified judge in Singapore was Sri Lankan. Actually this was told to me by a Singaporean, which made me very embarrassed and very uncomfortable. But they also studied the government systems. The civil service deeply. And they actually took some of our civil servants, took some of our educators to set up their education system. The unique thing about Singapore is the fact that they don't have a single asset except the geographical location. So they learn the lesson very early that people are the most important asset that we have. And they develop the people. That's why they are the powerhouse they are now. The size of Singapore is the size of Kalam. So the reason we look at Singapore is they've taken civil service and transformed. And that civil service is a model based on what we have. And it's actually an inspiration for our civil service to say, No, this is how thinking is. If you look at a lot of technology that they can implement, we can implement it quite quickly. The challenge we have is people. How do we make people think differently? How do we make people be transformed in terms of service oriented government? That's the challenge that we have. And that's what we look at Singapore as one example. The other example is South Korea. One way I keep people awake in Sri Lanka is I ask them questions. Culturally in Sri Lanka, people are not very comfortable answering questions. So if they know that I'm going to ask questions and I may ask specific people, So what do you think about this? They kind of stay awake. But in India, I can't do that because if I ask a question, I have a hundred of your unique different answers. So there's no chance of me asking you questions. But South Korea, why do you think that we consider it a model? A model of transformation. So there's a very clear similarity. So the similarity is a civil war. And they had a terrible civil war. And they came out of the civil war. Now, they are world leaders. They are showing all of us how to do things. Especially on the economy. Also in education as well. This is an example. Most of my colleagues don't ask me not to talk about it. Actually, I'm inspired by what Korea is. And it's an inspiration for us. The word Korea has a connotation in the single language. When we were small, when we said Korea, the word directly meant slums. But look at them now. But that was based on Korea actually. They studied Korean. When we say Korea in single language, it means a slum. But now, when you look at it, you look at the inspiration that they give us. We can actually tell our people, when we tell our people after a war, this is the modern transformation that we can achieve. Nothing is impossible. As long as we believe. And if you look at the two approaches that Korea and Singapore had, completely two different approaches. But effective, because they looked at the cultural context. So those are two countries that we consider our inspirations. So some of the visions that we have, I don't know if you've heard about it, we want to do something called a megapolis, which is actually the complete western promise to be converted into a complete smart city. Reason being very simple. 60% of all services are generated by Columbus. Columbo is not big enough. I think if you come to Columbo, you realize that they're getting more and more contested. That's one challenge. The second challenge is the effective space for investment from other countries. By the way, Sri Lanka's competition is not local. We don't have a market space in Sri Lanka for us to actually live off and grow as a nation. Our competition is international. So we cannot actually depend on a local economy to survive. Survival is one part of what we try, is the objective. So as an international, how do we do this? How do we position ourselves as an international leader in innovation? How do you do that? So one of the strategies that we have is to convert the complete western province, all of it into a smart city, with equal living spaces, with the international locations. We're looking at take embassies, or embassies where countries can actually have a plot of land where the laws of that country are used within that specific space. So you can set up a technology park belonging to, let's say, India. And you have India law in act of that. So that gives us a lot of comfort in terms of the fact that you'll be able to, your investment is protected. So there are processes that are thinking that are going on right now. So this is the vision that the government has, and that the government wants to implement it as fast as possible. So how do we do this? It's a big challenge that we have. And so we have a roadmap, not set in stone. We also understand it's very, very agile. My CEO is a serial entrepreneur. He started his first business when he was 16 years old. I come from a more formal kind of environment. I find it very difficult sometimes to keep up with him, because the way and the rapid rate of change that he brings, but he thinks. And every project that you go to him, he comes up with something and then every time you go to him. So it actually keeps you on a toes and also gives us a different perspective. So there are eight pillars that they're going to talk about. One is digital content, digital society, digital commerce, digital government, digital security, digital legislation, digital connectivity and infrastructure, digital jobs and all. There's a thought process behind all of it, by the way. We have currently, we have 60 projects last year that we had technically not projects, they'll come from combination of programs and projects. We have added another 15 this year. I need about, this year's one I need about 40 days. So the reason I lost a lot of hair is obvious. So my job is basically to either execute the project or get executed. So I'm always on late terms of the line. So let me just talk about some of the thinking behind all of this. So if you look at digital connectivity and infrastructure, that's a foundation. So Sri Lanka has, is a leader in terms of cellular technology. We have, we implement the 4G long for India actually there. And it's implemented either way. But we have challenges. Though the telcos get up and say, you know, everybody's connected everywhere. When you go to the gram and it's the other ones who actually are on the street with every single person in the society. They say there are certain regions in Sri Lanka the only way you can access their voice is you have to climb a tree. Right? It's not funny because you have the gram leader falling from a tree answering phone call. And you know what the papers will say. So our challenge was how are we going to bring this up? When we ask the telcos, they'll always say, what is our oil? They're not going to put up our oil. They're not going to get the money, right? So the first thing that we decided is okay. We need to push connectivity everywhere. So it's a government initiative to push fiber to every single government location including post offices. By default. It's a three-year project. We'll be doing 7,500 locations. The first one, we are just finishing the final stages of signing up. They'll start rolling up next week. The reason being, we actually have an earlier implementation which wasn't very successful because it was only focused on government. And therefore, because services were not delivered in every single location, a lot of it failed. But here, it's focused on the nation because when we push fiber to every single location, we are going to be able to reach the cost of telcos to actually go and set up the algorithm much cheaper. That is one strategy. One thing that we also want to do is we want to give internet access to all. So the policy is internet access to every person in every location is the objective that we want to try. The only way we can actually do it is, is the reason that we signed up with Google loan. We will first come to sign up with Google loan. Technically, we should have been well ahead of the curve, but we have an organization called ATU which defines frequencies which has its own processes of approving frequencies. So we have slightly challenged on that. But within two years, the objective is anyone in Sri Lanka, any mayor, can access internet. The third one is adopting internet. So to start the law, we have what's called a free Wi-Fi locations that are already set up. We have a few challenges. The good news about having a lot of criticism is that people are very, very interested in technology because if they're not interested, they won't give you any criticism. So that will go up to about 400 locations and people are already using it extensively. So we need to have people actually deliver the technology and also have them to allow feedback. On terms of global connectivity, because they are going to be a global hub, one of the plans is that we already have about seven different cables connecting up. We want one more cable connecting up to the Silk Road through India. So that's been studied. Hopefully within the next two years, we'll have that as well, connectivity to the India government as well. Information infrastructure, we have a couple of major challenges. One is we have information silos all over. Even though there is a legislator that says that ICTA has to define all of this, it never gets implemented fully. So we have a challenge there. So what we've actually done is we've got approval to have a single government cloud standardized, which has already been awarded. That's the first phase. So what happens when that happens is that currently one of the challenges that we have is interoperability standards across applications. We can't, as they said, you can't force yourself on government institutions. So this is a subtle approach of getting everybody into one space. Once we have them within our space, then we're actually able to define standards. That's one problem. The second problem is within the government infrastructure, people get transferred every three years. We train someone. We put him up as the CEO. Three years later, he's gone out going doing something else. And we lose that kind of person. So actually from an infrastructure perspective, we have a central location to manage all of that. So that's what I was thinking that we actually have on the infrastructure side. Sri Lanka, by nature, have identity. I think Indians, you're still learning the concept of having an identity card. In Sri Lanka, if you're going to take a whatever exam, you have to have a national identity card. We don't have a choice. So all Sri Lankans have 16 years and over, have to have a national identity card. The challenge is the digital identity. So you already started the process of creating a digital ID that will incorporate biometrics in terms of fingers, iris, voice, and face. It's a tough challenge, but it's something that the government really wants to do. That's one thing that I already implemented. Hopefully we will award that in another month or so. That will come through. Digital privacy, because the next question that's obviously asked is, how is my privacy going to protect me? For that, we have already legislation that is already being enacted. Plus we have the public and private key being implemented as well. I'll go into that later. Digital education is something that's very close to my heart. Although the education system was wonderful in its day. There are a couple of Britishers here, so I'll be very careful what I say. But it has changed. The world has changed. You have what is called, if I ask most of you, what do you remember about the teacher? Is it the content or the character? What is the primary role of the teacher? So the first school, the objective of a school, the start of a school was to take children off the street. So that's character building. Because you don't want people actually going the wrong way. Not to deliver content. But we have become a society of content delivery and certification. Not character. The challenge is how do we go back and build character? So in the normal article, article of all information teacher delivering information as the current end for students, retention is actually between 5 and 10 percent. In a flip classroom, where the student comes up, to actually make presentation in the subject, retention goes up to 90 percent. So that's one challenge we have taken on. And we have multiple approaches to it because it's not giving a device for digital. It is a transformation of people and teachers and an ecosystem that we actually take on. That alone I can talk about for half a day but that's kind of strategies that we are actually done. We are implementing digital classrooms across the nation within the next three years. We started the process of preparing teachers for training. It has to be given for all A level students within this year and next year. Content is already being developed. There's a different approach to how we take on the content because we won't have an open standard for content. I will talk about that later. So that's the kind of transformation we understand because if you don't change the people and it starts with school, it starts at home, you're never going to have character in the long term. So that's what we really want to focus on. Digital wallet and authentication, we want everything. The vision of the technology is all transactions to the digital. And so as a part of the car, of the digital ID, you will also have a wallet so the digital wallet also has to be provided so that you can actually do a transaction with the digital wallet. E-debracy and participation, there's a huge project that is going on where we are going to the grassroots and getting them on social media. Very successful divided. We've already done, as a pilot we did 80 and then followed up with 400. We're going to roll up to about 8,000 in the next few days. So what it does is it goes to the farmer, brings them as a collective under the law, they work together to address their problems using Facebook and social media. We have case studies where a person who is to do small wooden tools, etc., using discards in terms of old things, who is to sell on a payment, and he got on Facebook, now he's sold out on Facebook. And we have entrepreneurs, a lot of them like that. So whatever we want to actually create. And future, if you have a digital identity, if you like to do elections also, which is everything. Imagine the lost nation has to suffer because you've got to give at least one or two days holidays. People basically have to go to vote. Here you can do the election. It takes care of all of that, plus prevents fraud as well, which is one of the objectives. So the education portal is an open portal. We are going to open it out for anyone who wants to deliver that content to the portal. You connect it to it and deliver your content. And the method of delivery can be defined by actually a separate portal in terms of whether you want to do adaptive learning or standard method of delivery. You can charge people, or not charge people, that's up to you. But we want to keep it open because innovation always happens. And we can always depend on Sri Lanka to be the most innovative. So we want everybody from international level to actually become a part of it. The common content, one of the curses of being under the British system is because they were so organized, they've got departments full of documents which we have to visit us. If you look at the folio of the land folio, some of these folios are about 100 different, maybe sometimes 200, 300 trans-Festive land folios. And each one has to be done. But we are in the process of doing it. We are planning to roll it out in the information act. By the way, India, I don't know whether you know that you are the best type of information act in the region. And you can actually applaud it because it's brilliant. We are very close, but we can't take the final step. The final step is if you don't respond within the stipulate at the time, every additional day, you think you'll lose 15% of your salary. I don't know whether you know about this. Sri Lanka, we can't do that. I wish we could, but we can't or we can't do that. So, RTL allows us, we will demand information to be delivered. And therefore, because we have a 14-day to maximum 28-day life cycle, if the information is not digital, you can imagine what it will look like. Local language support is something that we are working on. I won't go into that in detail. We want to get a device to be able to interact with the local language both in terms of speaking as well as the mind. And of course, optical character recognition as well. Security is a major problem for us. We have different, different enhancements in different, different government departments. But the worst, culturally, is the people. I think any secretary expert will say the biggest problem is usually the person. Because if you look at even America, if you look at the Sony inclusion, it came from the person. The other person didn't know about it, but he was just not wise enough. Spear fishing, et cetera, is something that I hope you all know what it would like. So we are doing a lot of education of people. We are also doing a national stock on the lines of Korea or Singapore. Within the next two years, we'll have phase one implementation. The consultancy already has been given. And we should have it implemented ASAP. We already have our SIRC, which is just a lot of the post-modern and the advisory part. So I won't go into it. National digital certification, we already have partial infrastructure in, but we want to be able to provide the certificates to the airport. So that it's easily consumed and it is available to all. So legislation, we already have the data security act. We have the ICDAC already implemented. The challenge we have is the fact that it's not disseminated. People are really not aware of it. So we are doing a lot of work on that part. Because our competition is going to be international, the number one problem we have with international transactions or international agreements is trusted. So how do we make sure that we are a mechanism that is trusted? If you look at a lot of the investors, they say if I invest so much of money and something happens, your boat system is so difficult and we have come to Sri Lanka, etc., nothing is going to happen. So the government may be difficult to sign up for participatory, really sectoral agreement. Where any organizations, any governments that have signed up, let's say with Singapore and Sri Lanka, and there is a business agreement between both these countries. Both the two organizations within these two countries. If one defaults, you raise the request in Singapore and he gets prosecuted in Sri Lanka for many reasons. Sri Lanka is the first world. It was the second nation in the whole of Asia to sign up. I think now currently Australia is signing up. Singapore is the first. That shows the kind of commitment. By the way, our legal system has been set up to handle this. And also to be able to fast track Second one is on the on the Budapest Convention on Cyber Security. Sri Lanka was the second country in the world to sign up. We did it in six months. It was a record. One of our experts actually sits on that convention now as an expert in terms of how it will be managed. In terms of regulation, we already have a lot of frameworks already in place. But one of the challenges that we have in the past is because of different changes and different approaches, we have not been able to fully implement. So under this current government we have what's called inter-ministerial commitment which has the same powers as Canada. The right ministers sitting on it who actually approve regulation and make sure that it's implemented all the time. So that makes, that we have a process that we can actually get them to meet very regularly and implement policies and regulations. I will go and give us, I think, a cover. How long may I have for time? Anybody? Nine minutes. Okay. Enabling electronic transactions. So one of the decisions of the government is to reduce currency printing. I think you understand the fact that when you bring currency in an economy, it costs the GDP about 2,000. So the challenge was how are we going to do this? So we can't take the Indian approach to that. So we had to have a different approach to this. So there was two things that we actually implemented. First one was with the National Payment Platform that we had implemented which is something similar to PayPal where you can have any to any transactions. You can sign up with multiple ventures to actually store your information that you're not stuck to a bank. There's a reason why we don't say bank for the bank because it controls a lot of the economy in their own way so we want to change that. And enables transactions to go across and all government transactions, the moment it becomes digital, you will have to do a digital version. That's one standard. So it will force people to actually digital. Suddenly, if you withdraw anything for 1 million which is actually being the law is being enacted, there's additional tax. So it's about 2%. So I don't think people would like the idea of doing that. Maybe that'll come down later. So that's the Sri Lanka flavor of demonetization that we are implementing here. We obviously can't go the same way that we may deal with riots in Sri Lanka. But I mean, you guys did a wonderful job of it too. I know there are fans and not so happy people about it but there's an objective I think that has to be met then. Innovative finance. The biggest challenge we have is since we want to be a creative not a business society and we want to create startups, innovation. The problem with Sri Lanka is if you go with an innovative idea to the bank and say, hey, can you fund this? First thing they'll ask you where are you at? I don't know about India so I can only talk about Sri Lanka. Or they'll say, bring your parents' house and stuff as an asset. But these young startups don't have that kind of asset case to it, right? It's a non-education. That's an innovative idea. How do you create an environment for that? So we are actually working with organizations and even the national payment platform is being set up in such a way that it allows only organizers to connect who actually understand this specific domain and are able to support it. By the way, Sri Lanka does very well on the innovation side. Our only problem is that we are not as articulate as you guys in India. We know how to do the talk, the talk. Our guys don't, our guys are struggling in that specific area. We are working on it. We won a lot of international awards by the way. We won quite a bit of Intel awards, Microsoft awards. But we have not been able to take it out. What happens with most people? So they are innovation overseas and come back. There's really no opportunity in Sri Lanka. We have a company that actually, very young company that has done a hammer which analyzes brain scans, gamma radiation. Identifies which locations are working. So, and he wants to use the gamification. So, I said, why are you using the gamification? He said, well, that's the one that I'm comfortable with. I said, have you look at stroke? Right? Microsoft, et cetera, actually creating products that allow the Xbox to be used as an exercise tool. Right? Actually knows what exercises and he tells you this is the exercise. He monitors it. But nobody can monitor your brain. Right? If I can link off it, I can actually give the update to the doctor and the doctor can monitor you often. You don't have to come possibly. So that's the thinking that we need to actually bring up and change. This is the biggest challenge that we have. Well, we are approaching in a very different way. So, video conferencing is standard that we're implementing across all of them, starting with 20. Across government, workflows have begun across the system. The vision of the government is any government service has to be delivered to a device or from the nearest government location and that can be a post office. So, to do that, we since we need all of the government connected, we need up setting up the standards so that the workforce etc. are connected. Application standards are being defined by existing applications and that's a lot of work. Because, as I said earlier, we have a legacy system sitting inside. So, we are currently doing that process right now. We have national special data is a very key initiative that we have actually started off. It was started off three times before and it failed because it went to either under the land domain to take it on but because people don't like different domains taking it on, finally they have actually agreed to work with ICP and ICTA is the one that actually going to manage that domain. This is going to cover disaster information. So, there is basically certified land from a prospective public, private, usage, soil content, agriculture. The potential is huge. Disaster, flood levels, what we call future crop management, market trends. So, you can imagine the market thinking that is going on behind it. But that's what we actually do. We have already started the process yourself. So, the RFP will be out by end of this month. For a complete system in a unified way. For hospitals, we are still going to provide free healthcare for all. So, the challenge that we have is the systems don't support it. So, we've actually gone from patients coming and spending the whole day in the hospital to get treated for one hour. The time it comes in and works out with medication. Right? So, the hospitals that actually implemented this have done it. Again, 45 this year, 45 will be completed this year. 100 balance is certified to be started and another 300 of the next three years. That is the first part of it. The second part of it is basically capturing information. We want to get it when it comes to healthcare. So, the next phase is actually going and meeting of the government, the health officers, giving them information tasks, letting them monitor people. I say some of the challenges in healthcare, sir. 25% of the top, that's in Singapore, in Sri Lanka, is more. 25% of all patients have check out a positive check back within three months because there's no aftercare. So, how do we put that in the digital perspective? How do we activate what we are really doing? All government services have to be electronic. That's a long part and a difficult part because there are so many services. But we are mapping out every single service. We already have a revenue license in place and if you are looking, things like wildlife, looking, et cetera, everything, that's already in place. We plan to roll out all services starting with the main months this year and I think they have about the last count they have about some of them are redundant and complicated. Efficient public service delivery, I think, is a must. The concept is that we should be able to get finally our passports, you can get it within one day. So, that is if you want an urgent pass. Technically, it's about if you go in the morning at 7.30, you can get it before that. That's a service that you want. Obviously, in terms of your size of people and space. So, that we want to change. We want them to be able to actually go to the nearest post office, process their documents and get the passports delivered. Obviously, you can't do it in one day because it's a delivery. But, that's the kind of service that we are looking at for all the governments. We are going to actually do a kiosk service. We are looking at studying it at the moment so that most services that you can deliver to a kiosk you want to deliver. That includes telephone payments, services, real payments, information. We want requests for information or request for services we want to do for kiosk. So, the tech startup program is we currently run our own internal program called Spiralation, which is incubated at home accelerator because we've not had the private sector really stepping into the start of the process now. We are going to be on the private sector because we actually create interaction. We are actually working with the private sector. We are going to I don't know whether it's something called Make a Space in America that similar concept is going to be used to Sri Lankan and we are writing it that they are going to create locations for people to have startups where you can actually have a desk or an innovation center services, etc. It needs a specific kind of culture. Innovation is cultural. So we need to actually create that culture location once. All the problem that we have is everybody says we are going to put it next to a university and I have said no because I said university is not a location like what they do in Singapore but we need to create that unique ecosystem. So that's going to be set up in all the major locations in Sri Lanka. We currently identify one but we're voting for every location running out of time. Capacity building the number one department for us is security as is in India. I know you guys roughly I think because the last time they said your need was without digital India it was 500,000 security experts of which you had only 8,000 and with digital India you got to go 1 million so I would like to know how we do that because we have 12,000 security experts within the next two years and we are looking to see how we can accelerate because it's not a person a counselor we need a practitioner how do we get practitioners out and that's a huge challenge that we are facing. Data science is another area we really want to do by the way Sri Lanka produces enough doctors enough accountants but they don't think in the line of data science is not something related to IT specifically it is domain and I think it's just a small of thinking that is required that's one area that we've been actually we're going to look at there was a there was a huge outsourcing company that came to Sri Lanka and said if you can give me 100 today I'll take all of it because finally we didn't have so that's one area so capacity building we identify specifically in this area where Sri Lankan we don't have we don't have the kind of scale that you guys have that China has Philippines has in terms of being able to turn on people so whatever we do we have to have a certain quality level that is that's obviously a certain standard so our objective is to identify specific areas and develop that and one challenge obviously that we always have is that we train people and they go and it happens to you guys as well and there are reasons for it but we are we are we are looking at how and that's the make up what is this channel people like to stage Sri Lankan but they don't because they see potential outside children education outside so that's that's how the challenge is every time country branding we have done quite well we have talks for outsourcing in the region there are also other metrics that are going on we are currently going to Saudi and in terms of the outsourcing we do a lot of work with partner we have focused on Australia Canadian countries we are looking at expanding into other countries in the next couple of years there are a lot of companies that are already set up in Sri Lankan quite large ones that are only set up in big US states plus there are also Sri Lankan companies that have gone up like in my opinion now so that's one area that we are really focusing on in Sri Lankan time so so digital inclusivity does not look at gender or from where you are from which school Sri Lanka the problem is I come from this school you come from this program is inclusive irrespective of where you come from what is gender there are a lot of females in the tech space but we have still have a learning of challenge in terms of perception because people still look at it in the old way but that's changing rapidly we are leaders also coming from the public space so I'll start from there