 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus CV Africa. We have set for a first major conversation on the program this morning And of course looking at them the courts dismissals the federal High Court dismissing the federal government's request for the extra Extradition of a former supercup abacare Well, the federal government or the federal High Court in Abuja on Monday dismissed the Attorney General out of Federation in midst of justice Abu Kamala Abu Bakar Malami as he ends extradition suits seeking to surrender Abacare to the United States of America to face fraud charges the judge My lord the honor justice in a core said that mr. Malami was responsible for the failure of a case by Instituting the extradition proceedings Despite the pending criminal case against mr. Kerry in Nigeria Miss Kerry's as suspended Deputy Commissioner police is wanted by the American government Overpending for charges filed against him and others at the United States District Court of the Central District of California now reacting to this human rights right is association of Nigeria who Rewa yesterday money described as a Grand hypocrisy the extradition suit by the Attorney General of Federation in midst of justice It said the AGF should know better as a law officer of the country that the case of Kerry is a fair company Which means to the suspended head of the inspector general police intelligence response team cannot be extradited to the United States? Since his facing drug related crimes brought against him by the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency with us this morning to provide analysis of this we have a debola or la rotimi Lemma his managing partner fountain court partners legal practitioners based in Lagos Mr. Debola or la rotimi. Thank you very much for your time. Glad to have you join us now Is this is it possible that somewhere? Yes, is it possible that somewhere in a book above a car Malami assayants world? He never thought it was going to be impossible to extradite Kerry despite the nation's extradition rules Also make laws for his own citizens, however if there are if there are crimes committed outside of the jurisdictions of the Solenity states the request is to can make such a question. That was what they have done respect of the case of the former super cool abacare however There was a section of the law which is section 3 sub section 6 a which provides that In fact, but the general the general section 3 is like a restriction on the right of the Requesting state to request and the rise of the surrendering state to also surrender but the section 3 generally now puts like an incubation now if the I Kids or the suspect is already facing a criminal trial in the surrounding state of legitimate actions or in respect of that Action that is Requesting states also make a request that person is also ready facing a criminal trial for this particular issue Abacare is already facing a criminal trial in Nigeria based on its involvement or it's a leg involvement in the case of Drops and based on that the law the law court only Expounded or expel files the provision of section 3 sub section 6 a which provides that if the Surrender state is already persecuting the Alleged suspect for a different action or a different method that the question is in that surrounding state has a duty Not to surrender the alleged suspect until after he has finished his terms of Imprisoning if he's convicted and if he's acquitted then based on that one. They can still make the request So I think we have in general maybe There was a mistake on the apart on the part of his life to know that a particular section exists or the thought Based on that too, and the judge will still not Prevent them, but like the judge really said is an abuse of copies and a bit of copies is where you use the court process To the annoyance of the other party because there's an existing Prescription and why there's an easy prescription the same course cannot close his eyes and See to the request of a foreign nation when the domestic nation is already persecuting such a Suspect so would you would you agree with those who were saying that this Was entirely, you know a plot to shield Abba carry from all of this because they are a Tony general Malamie should have known better to have prevented the NDLE from going ahead I mean to have Intervened not allowed that process to continue. So do you agree with those who say that this is actually just the disguise It was just a plot, you know to protect him I would all agree with them because the the office of the Honorable to general of the federation is a high office which is a Occupied by someone who was alleged to the constitution who are the young allegiance to the country and who are the young So the citizens of this country, so maybe it was a mistake or a mistake on their palace What are we how we how we conclude in this part? I won't say it was a It was a it was rumours that that was what the Intended to do, but I won't subscribe to that I believe it was a mistake or a mistake on their party Jenny mistake in this instance So if it wasn't, you know intended you say it was a mistake and he understands the law We're talking about, you know the law right here. Abubakum Malamie Don't you think that he should have been very honest to ensure that? At the time that the extra dieting of Carrie wouldn't have happened because he would have ensured that I mean to ensure that the Extradition goes through that the NDLE does not file a case against him It's just like I mentioned If it's a genuine mistake, then Little you can condemn the honey work in general for because like I mentioned, he holds the high office of Assuming or be assumed to have known all the provisions of the law because it's the chief lawmaker and the Legal advisor to the country and legal advisor to the president as well So we ought to have known the provision of the law that if it puts in the Request for extradition why different criminal prosecution for Abba Kiali is ongoing by the enforcement agencies then The extradition request will not fly it ought to have known and I believe It was a genuine mistake and holding mistake for the part of the lawyer who filed the application for Transition before the honorable court. Oh, I mean, it's it's quite difficult for Nigerians to understand how genuine this mistake is Especially where you had a lot of persons predicting exactly what was going to happen And this is exactly the case that has happened. So how You know the law the law the law is written in English Almost every Nigerian have predicted that majority of Nigerians have predicted myself I predicted that this could not fly because we look at the provision of the law The court cannot put aside to the exact and the plain meaning of section three six a of the extradition act that when They are the alleged suspect that is expected to be requested and surrender is Facing a criminal charge even different from the one is alleged to have been requested that the person will not be submitted to the requesting country so everyone All right, the portion of that knew that this was going to be the exact Response of the court when the matter was filed before the court So but if every common Nigerian including yourself understood all of this Then why then the the one who should understand the law? I mean the chief protector of the law did not see this. He didn't understand it What then is the excuse you said common Nigerians including yourself, which I know you're not come on But we say common Nigerians understood this and Abba carry. I beg your pardon. Abba Baka Malami did not understand this How is this possible? Well, I mentioned earlier it must have been a genuine honest mistake on the path of the lawyers in the Miss you know the answer is you know, it's not the only person that's for scooting He asked lawyers in the department who does criminal who does civil who does some other department in the in the in the Ministry of Justice of the federal federation. So it must have been a Honest mistake of the lawyers who find the process before the honorable court They could have they could have waited for Drug law enforcement to finish its own prosecution or They haven't because it would have been a mountain to abuse or process to if they have allowed The end really to if you have activated the only to suspend this person because I Duty to domestic countries much more bigger than due to the following country. So the quiet I think they should have allowed And to finish some prosecution and get a conversion of otherwise before filing the extradition a request So I believe it was a genuine mistake. I refuse to to condemn the for this mistake All right I mean the the the history of this this case this issue has been well documented And the LA comes up catches the man in a situation, you know holds a press conference in front of the public about it Demands that he should be submitted the police also come up and say a couple of things against the NDA is a back-and-forth The public is aware the public outcry and then the hand of the police are forced to do certain things The man is handed over you have the police also say no But some people in the NDA who are guilty there's some food dragon There's a committee set up to investigate we wait for the committee to come out with his report The report comes out is handed over to the attorney general and then for legal advice And then he makes a statement. In fact before the report was concluded. It took a while He made a statement saying I just want to go back basically Exonerating his courted to have exonerated Abba carry though he came out to say that he didn't exonerate it and he was misunderstood But this is the legal advice by your Leonard colleague of work. I'm alumni say and that is what he said quote that there exists a prima facie case of conspiracy collaboration receipt conversion transfer and or retention of the proceeds of unlawful activities contrary to the provisions of sections 15 17 and 18 Of the money laundering prohibition act of 2004 and section 17 of the EFCC act cap E laws of the Federation of Niger 2004 against DCP Abercarion other suspects in view of the overwhelming evidence showing the nature of his disguised financial transactions and activities with a bus Hush Poppy if he Martins and some other persons who are all confirmed members of an International fraud network He said he continued to say yeah to just a Cut some things are cause of time although the facts of and circumstances of the case of this case as contained in the case file Suggestive to money laundering Offenses against this if you have a carry in his accomplices. He names them To successfully prosecute them. There is a need for a more thorough dissecting and tracing of the suspected 33 proceeds of Crime received by DCP Abercarie directly or indirectly through the set of complices So this this is in relation not to the NDLA case but to the issue regarding Abercarie and his involvement with Hush Poppy and correct that and some people interpreted this to mean an Exoneration of Abercarie though Malami came out to say no, we didn't exon but look at this statement statements saying that There needs to be more thorough dissecting despite the preponderance of evidence against the gentleman Some would say the history of trying to protect Kerry is already there to lay ground for suspicion for this move by The Minister of Justice and you can't divorce him. They are turning general from what his ministry did this suit Just like I mentioned earlier the the fact that he has gone ahead to file And this tradition request before the call his office has gone ahead to fight on this tradition request before the court says that he is not also protecting him But it may have been like I mentioned is a may have been Yes, sorry to interrupt you said the question been trying to ask and I know you get it What is the the point? That's what I asked is there any? In you any possibility in Abercarie's world that he is not aware because you can tell us That the Minister of Justice will file this suit and the minister doesn't know about it. Sir. It's impossible so is there any Reason in Abercarie's world where he's not aware that he cannot file such a suit Yes, like I mentioned to you that As your only way to generalize for versus several departments and boost evil and criminal It's not the actual person Even if he's going to be the person that will authorize it It may not be the actual person that will sign the process that will go to the court and to The process may have past through some must also pass through some other procedure It's not legal person in the environment going through the process before getting to him I'm sure if he's the one that's trying the Require that went to court Dependent on some other persons who must have done the the nitty-gritty and the Leg walk of the of the matter before getting to him and like I also mentioned to No one is above mistakes even judge. That's why you have appellate appellate procedures George is Make mistakes and what you get to the appellate call appellate calls may also make a mistake But when you get to the supreme when the supreme code makes a mistake it becomes a Permanent thing for every mistake the supreme code gets if you never get to the supreme code And the supreme code has to look at all the means the law called me the mistake And that's why the supreme code is there to correct those mistakes So I think no one is above mistake and I still believe Family that was a mistake or a mistake or a genuine mistake or the part of those who file the request because the fact that I Was already facing a criminal charge Escorpate anyone who finds a request from getting a confirmation from the court and the good thing is that section 3 of the of the app Makes it like the court like the clearinghouse for every explanation request are going to fire But the court can also look at it and say oh demand the action has been It's a state because the demand has committed an act action for maybe 30 years. You have no big request The court can say oh this person Cannot be surrendered to the requesting nation or if the Allegation is flimsy the course also has a duty to say oh this allegation is flimsy I cannot in good conscience allow In the requesting nation to have this person to be charged. So the good thing is that we are in a democracy Unlike what happened in the parliament those days when America went to the media to parliament for drug Related cases and pick the President and took it to America America in this why the court is where the democracy and the court is the bastion of Democracy and the court is enjoying in this particular section of the of the law to put the interest of anyone that was Surrender to the requesting nation to pass through the process of court and that was what the court has just done in this mind this case All right Before makes comes in based off of what you've said I'd like to bring you the words of the the Human Rights Rights Association of Called this action by the Honourable Attorney General a Grand hypocrisy, so just a few words from who Rewa. Now. This is what they said quote The grand hypocrisy and shenanigan of the Attorney General of the Federation and midst of Justice Aboka aboka Malami SEN if the DCP about Kerry case is now obvious It's what they said they went on to say quote the action of the AGF is condemnable since he deliberately filed Another matter against Kerry before seeking his extradition when as a lawyer he ought to know that it is fair Comply since under the law you can't extradite someone already facing Separate charge in Nigeria. We've been responding to this last want you to look at this who Rewa statement now They said it is important to note or to ask the Justice Minister why he why he didn't file The extradition suit about a year after Kerry was declared wanted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation Until the ND L.A. in Bruegelio the whole drama they say Nigerian snow is a planned script That last Sentence I think it should be what you respond to sir Yes, they're entitled to you know, this is their opinion and they're entitled to it I can't I can't put it such that so that I can also and tied to my opinion. Well, I feel like I mentioned earlier It may have been a mistake on the path of it was one of the things that for there to be a traditional request There must be one a request from the requesting nation to there must have been a one of us from the requesting nation We did it probably was a way that was a warrant of arrest But the request actually They may may not come until The Honourable General makes the request to the court if the request does not come for the requesting nation Honourable General cannot just enter the court and and and and may request that because all the request all the request the boundary of the alleged crime against the person in the requesting nation in the court of requesting nation the One of the request all of these things forms Bondo of exhibit that must be shown to the court and like I mentioned and I know section 3 is an addition Preventing the court from just allowing the court to assign its own discretion without just Following that the generous request the most look at those document and show that this person Actually has committed a crime in the requesting nation this person has been charged before a court in the requesting nation Completed that the child before court the requesting nation three there has been a one out of arrest from the requesting nation These are the three things that the court will have to look into Constructing the father you have to cut out to look at their order criminal charges against this place in Nigeria are there in respect of that same offense and they also Criminal charges against this suspect with respect to different Matters or different issues which is the case of abacare in this matter is said that the court went through the activities realized that oh, there is a pending case before the competent court in Nigeria by the Drug enforcement which is under the supervision of the attorney general and based on that It's called a zoom that is general to out how to know that well This is pending case whether in respect of the case to which the person is being requested or a different case pending in We have to You know Look at all the issues because we're out of time I'm sure we have less than two minutes to be on this particular issue now But a quick one you say that it's a journey mistake is a mistake honest mistake in your words I'd like to find out is there any way that this honest mistake can be corrected by the law by any form of appeal you know or Corrected by the government itself. I mean by the system and also been appealed by all the interests party Thank you very much. If the matter is I feel I I suspect This mistake to be corrected. That's what I'm asking Yes, it can be collected in two ways either the prosecution We draw the case a good draw the case Fight against abacca Ali by the Nigerian drug enforcement agencies then another question of a fight in court Or or the way to the outcome of the The drug enforcement agencies prosecution is concluded then they can make a request and he has finished Time of imprisonment and it can make a lot of those are the two ways you can be corrected Okay, but apart from that, what would you say is would be the implication of the court throwing out the federal government's Application to extradite abaccarie to the United States. I mean on the Hosh Poppy case and on abaccarie What does this mean to the case with Hosh Poppy and also with abaccarie been the fact that he's also been Facing some charges with that's been filed by the NDA Lee in Nigeria He does not stop abacca abaccarie case has come to an end We are waiting sentence from the last I read about like a week ago the sentence If not deliver just yesterday to be in the next like a 48 hours Abam Ramon and Hosh Poppy would be sent in so in this case does not have anything to is not tied down to abaccarie being in being in the US Crime crime does not have the time limit Even if it's 20 years that the finishes on term of imprisonment I zoom in the call Convicted him for the crime of drug in Nigeria and expenses Time of imprisonment The only one thing at any point in time can see fire the request because that request is simply from the army from America They can see if the firing and the federal high court at that point in time because there will not be any exhibition Visions at that time maybe for prosecution or some other case then because we didn't really granted at that point in time Thank you so much for your time a day baller or laurel to me lemma managing partner Fountain court partners legal practitioners is with interesting engagement with you this morning reported having you but sometimes Thank you very much. I appreciate return from a short break a look at Investing graduates particularly graduates Nigerian graduates from Ukraine and their issues with the Nigerian medical council all ahead