 Well, I would like to call to order the self-growing in city council meeting of Monday December 6th, and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Instructions on exiting the building in case of an emergency Great, thank you So for those in the room there are two doors at the back of the building at the back of the room You can go out either one and turn left or right to Exit the building altogether For those in the room there are assisted listening devices available in this room if you are interested in those please see Andrew and Finally for those on go to meeting just a reminder that I will be monitoring the chat for folks who want to Turn their cameras and mics on to make comment during those appropriate times But otherwise we will not be monitoring the conversation in the chat Item three is agenda review are there any additions deletions or changes in order of agenda items? Okay, seeing none. We'll move on to any comments and questions from the public not related to the agenda So anyone in the house who has anything to say? Okay. How about online? Okay, seeing none We'll move on to announcements in the city managers report so Matt do you have any? Information from the I Just wanted to say that I spent Saturday An hour Saturday afternoon with Tony Justin and Betty of the dog park committee over at Feral dog park Listening to some of their concerns, which I do think are legitimate. Yep issues with drainage mud pit, it's an icy mud pit and there are a lot of Individuals that live in apartments that don't have yards That live in that breach for the Senate day and even when we Hopefully break ground and open up the Wheeler dog park this summer that park is still well used well loved but not very well maintained and Certainly, I think we could do a better job and I'm looking forward to working cooperatively with Anyone who would that same idea of that goal? Great. Thank you. I Just have one this Sunday is the fifth annual ugly sweater run hosted and managed by the South Burlington Rotary, so I hope you all are looking for a fun outdoor activity out of the FHTMS the middle school Sunday I think it starts at 10 a.m. But it's for a great cause and I'll be there wearing my ugliest and I'm not actually gonna run in it So that'll be psyched to see I also met with Betty Melitia and Justin I don't recall his last name of the dog park committee and I will second that's comments Right, I met with her too So I would agree there's the work that needs to be done And I'm relieved that I didn't miss the ugly sweater because I thought it was Son this past Sunday, and I wasn't feeling well, so I couldn't run in it But or walk I don't run but so I will be there too I met with Jesse and I met with the school leadership and we had good conversations about moving forward with developing budgets and That presentation on behalf of the Climate action plan I mentioned to them that in our conversations and I'll talk about this next Last week that they had identified It would a need for someone from the school department or students to be part of that conversation and Bridget and Superintendent young were very amenable to that so that was good, and I think I can't remember what else Can we talk about? We talked about budget process and the steering committee meeting at January 24th Anticipating working together cooperatively on the Charter Right demographics That's right. Oh a good point. Yeah a good point. We we did they raised their their concern about the demographer and wanting to get better numbers and Jesse kind of shared her a Vision I guess of really working together in ways that would really help the city and the city's planning With better demographics and sharing that with the school department so together we look at where the growth is What's happening? It's effect on all of our budgets and then So sharing that both cost and Process so they seem really amenable to that and I think it just Makes a lot of sense when we think about future planning actually having some good data about you know where we are and what the expectations are of New school children and so forth The climate action plan was had our first meeting and I'm very excited about the people who have joined that I'm probably the only one who doesn't know very much Everyone else brings to the committee a lot of technical expertise and interest and And I think that's will be really really helpful and particularly if we get some voices from education there too because education and having conversations with the public about Climate change and what can or cannot be done or that engagement I Think can be Augmented if not led by children So it was it was a wonderful Meeting we had a presentation by CCRPC about Melanie needle talked about how they're planning to kind of pursue The design of the committee there was a little pushback with transportation being such a big piece so I think we will Get to a an agreement meeting of the minds on on really what the climate action plan should focus on But it was very good and at the meeting. I did recommend People read this book saving us and I will lend it to anyone. It's excellent and It talks about the climate scientists Case that she makes about how we really need to have Conversations with people and better understand different Perspectives in order to move together ahead and not just be in camps that we never chatted about So I think that's pretty much all I did this week So Jesse Just a couple of updates for you tonight one you have likely heard that the Kimblav and Marshal of bridge is reopened Excellent work by the engineers and public works. It's an enormous culvert if you take a look at one of our old City news and look at the size of the culvert compared to the little teeny people next to it It's pretty awe-inspiring So just a the work will continue for about the next two weeks And then they will be back in the spring for a final paving and for the rec path Finalization, but it will continue to be open Today we learned that we received $17,700 municipal planning grant from the state for The government operations section of the climate action plan. We were back in front of you a couple of weeks ago With that grant application request That's a subset of the climate action plan that will really look at us as a municipality and how we address our Climate goals. So thanks to the state for that grant. There will there is a small local match With that as well I want to give a few more sentences on the raise grant that we got for the bike ped bridge Over 89 so just as a reminder. We got 9.7 million dollars from the feds for that project We are currently working on a request for qualifications for firms to do a design competition in 2022 to really make it a a place a Destination as well as a transportation route And we hope to be ready to go to construction in the fall of 2023 We will need additional funding from the TIF district for that is modeled in our TIF plan And we'll look to go to the voters for that authorization in 2023 as well You may have heard that the building homes together campaign is re-upping after its first five years iteration for another five years they have really aggressive Goals of 5,000 new homes in the next five years 25% of which are affordable across the county So I wanted to bring that up and make sure you all were aware of it and also Ask the council don't need an answer about this tonight But if we would like to sign on to that campaign at some point and I'll be sending around additional information to the council about that Just Acknowledgement that the November tax installments are now complete and the delinquency notices are out and Martha Lyons Who's here with us tonight wanted me to share that if folks are in Delinquency and struggling financially to please quietly be in contact with Martha Lyons for contact information on our website We can put together payment plans and we have access to other relief as well So for those listening, please be in touch if we can help And then finally on fun notes the holiday lights are up at vet park They will be up and on from five to eight every evening through january third. They are beautiful We've officially launched them for Holly's birthday on friday And I'll bet And the registrations for the community residential holiday lights competition are now open and the judging will be december 14th Great, thank you. Any questions? All right, then let's move on to the consent agenda We have two four six items the Consider and sign disbursements approval of minutes from november 1st November 8th and november 15th city council meetings We have approval of an application to the vermont bond a bank for voter authorized debt related to 180 market street approve the 2021 errors and omissions to the grand list Except the ridgewood and the indian creek storm water permit under the city's ms4 permit And authorize the city manager to execute that agreement And lastly accept the stone hedge storm water permit under the city's ms4 permit and authorize the city manager To execute the agreement I'll move that we approve the consent agenda Is there a second? second Okay, is there any discussion? All right all in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. So the motion carries four zero with one absent There's one person on Line who would like to make public comment and while we are beyond that we are where it would usually be Well, we haven't actually reached it if we had started at our regular time. Are you open to her? Oh, that's fine. Yes. I am Louise Hammond if you would like to Turn on your camera and make comments Well, Louise if you don't have a video we can hear you but you need to turn on your mic There's a little picture. It looks like the mic. Oh, there you are. Good Okay. Yeah, so sorry. We we tried at six o'clock We weren't able to connect with you what we could see you So I just wanted to make a couple of quick comments about the climate change And yeah, I've done some research and the world health organization says that climate change is the single biggest health threat facing humanity The impacts are already harming health through air pollution disease extreme weather events force displacement food insecurity and pressures on mental health Every year environmental factors take the lives of around 13 million people and I just want to know that south burlington has A real handle on climate change and and what we're doing going forward and you know I had an idea of I don't know how much those fireworks cost that they Used in april but maybe instead of using the money for the fireworks. We could plant more trees I think we need to put south burlington on the map and and Do more than what would be expected? Okay, thank you very much And actually I have two other people here with me that would also like to make a brief comment Okay, if they would please give us their name first Yeah, um, yeah, this is dunia partilo You're also in southern and we're just um, uh, louis is um, yeah, we're just a quick Note on the first station too that is really linked to the climate change. So When we over build Communities, uh, which is happening here in south burlington. We just before stating They're we're cutting trees and so they're critical These are critical for for the environment for providing oxygen into Um And you know for for the climate so they they really are key for Humanity and so we get rid of them. Uh, which is gonna You know destroy the earth so I won't go any more details because you know, this could be lengthy and I'm not a scientist, but Um, it's been it's been talked to me in the in the world. Um Meeting that um happened in europe recently So the first station is one of the the important things that we have to really take into account and and You know, and so I just uh When when they build houses and developments, you know, this is really Hurting the the earth and the environment. So I just wanted to say that Yeah, thank you. Is there a third person in your Kitchen or wherever you are? Yes. Yeah, we're in the letter carter. Basically, it's really simple. It's carter carter agey. Yeah Every guys issue a permit you're contributing to climate change and they're just building way too many houses in the city of south burlington Uh, city of wilson is the same problem just development everywhere And the only way you're going to get climate change is to keep issuing permits to develop things So I think you should slow down on the number of permits you issue Okay, that's all Thank you Is there anyone else did Linda noris we started at six linda. So she's here for the next agenda. Oh, she's for the next agenda Okay, all righty, and I meant to start the recording at the beginning. So we're just going to do that now. Okay All right All right, so this conference will now be recorded um, let's move on to item seven then which is the Uh interviewing candidates and consider appointments to the parks and rec committee and we have Three candidates Two three candidates and two open positions So I believe linda and robby are both on go-to-meeting. Is oliver here Oliver I don't think he is here Okay All right, so we start with linda Linda you're muted. You're muted linda. You need to You mean you really wanted to hear me, right? Yes Well, we'd like to see you as well. So thank you very much for your interest in applying um I had a little hard time reading your handwriting. I have to admit so um It appears you've lived here for about 26 years and you've volunteered for a lot of rec department programs And you've done what sounds like a lot of coaching um and so those certainly are um Experiences that would lend itself to parks and recreation Are there other? Um aspects of your career or experiences that you think would would be helpful To the committee Well, first of all, let me apologize on the handwriting. I've had a cast on for Okay, I'm sorry The hen scratchings are not my normal. I apologize. Yeah I have a daughter worse so What's that I have a daughter with much worse handwriting. So this actually is a little easier to Breathe than hers I'm honored and flattered. Um, but anyway, I thank you all um for the opportunity. I just I'm on the economic Council committee also And I heard that there was a vacancy here and I have been here as you know, or some of you may not know for 26 years now raised my Family and our two girls were born here and I've coached Soccer at the high school level and then back in Tom Hubbard days in the rec department and I coached basketball and soccer There and softball and then I started the Girl's soccer program at tuttle school when I realized I didn't have one So I started boys and girls for equity back then but in addition to the sports because I'm a big recreation fanatic in general where I Ski hike bike and do whatever I can to keep moving um, and I am in probably Hubbard park or red rocks Or feral or eastwood parks Every day one of them is on my list every day to go visit. So they are I'm very honored and So happy that we picked south burlington to move to from silicon valley and The outdoors here is and the parks that we've had and continue to have Are a treasure to me and I just want to make sure we continue Along that vein and if I can help I'm happy to help along with the committee if needed Great. Have you been to any of the meetings? Um, I have I had yes, okay, so you buy it buy a video with holly. Oh, yes, sure So you understand when they meet and kind of what the time commitment is? I do I was looking at the um There's an opening. I believe a vacancy that goes through june of next year and that's the one I apply to Oh, okay. So you want to fill that? Okay All right, um Any other questions by people? I think we've interviewed you once for the economic development committee. So we know who you are Um Just I guess what she would like to bring specifically to this committee's work Would like to keep bring specifically to the committee. Oh, they're yeah Because you know that they're they're actively working on A recreation center. I don't know if that's in your thinking or if you are thinking about other possible projects that you'd like to At least participate in I would be very interested in the recreation center. Yes. I I think there's a A big need for that and I actually was selected to help out with the foundation When we started working on it, I don't know was it seven or eight years ago and then And then it got stalled when it was voted on along with the school budget So I do I do believe strongly that we need recreation more recreations indoor space here for our community Thanks There's no further Conversation our process will be to interview hopefully all three candidates If we have time we have an executive session tonight Depending on how long the rest of the meeting goes if we have The time and energy to make a decision on this tonight and then we'll let you know No problem. Thank you very much. So it might be a couple days from now It may not be tonight, but we'll see we'll we'll aim for that No problem. No problem. Thank you very much. Well, thank you very much for your continued and expanded interest in this community I could never thank all of you enough for your dedication and time and hours that you put in for the city So thank thank all of you. Good luck. Thank you Thank you um, so next Robbie I'm gonna destroy his last name. So I won't Hey, Robbie. How are you? I'm good. How are you? We're good. Yeah, so You work this is I thought this was interesting you work um as a town planner for the city of rich for the town of Richmond But you live here. So you know how important these community committees are and as an avid runner this one seemed to be of interest to you so You want to share with us? Maybe What you would bring to the committee and projects that you think you might want to work on and why we should select you Sure. So in Richmond during my tenure there I've helped to restart their recreation committee. So I actually staffed their regular meetings um, so I'm getting up to speed and now I feel very comfortable with uh, with recreation and how it works from the minutia but as a newcomer in Burlington is something that I wanted to I I want to be more involved in the community and I just to get to know the community better and I thought went out recreation to to learn more about recreation and also help out in any way that I can from my experiences with pork and Also, my chances as a planner I am really interested in the indoor rec facility. I think that will be a benefit for for city folk and community members But I'm I'm open to any projects that are on the slate and Interesting, but interested to help out in any way that I can right So, you know when they meet in that time commitment, it's not a concern It's not that long Okay I used to teach the camels hump. So I drove there every day for quite a few years Any other questions from people Well, I think it's very intriguing to have A candidate who's who's working on this in a different town and I'm sure that there will be some cross palanation Which will be very I think enriching I was just going to ask you too about the recreation center about your level of interest in it Or if there are other projects specifically you talked about programs in your letter that you would like to help create here in south Burlington Um Yeah, I'm I guess the rec center really drew me just as a as a runner who's suffered injuries from slipping on ice running in winter Uh, I know that I would appreciate it and I and I would think other runners would appreciate it too um with with programming Enrichment at least we're thinking about recreation and So I guess in the largest and most holistic sense in order to make programming as accessible as possible and also to capture the entire idea of well-being is well-being isn't just sports it encompasses Meeting in a third space and socializing to an extent So that's that would be part of my goal with any programming. I I don't have any specific idea at the moment that I I think that with any anything that I would think would do a lot We want to make sure that programming is is accessible for all ages all abilities all income levels And and make sure that it's it's well rounded that we're not just uh Focusing singular singularity singularly on one aspect of recreation that recreation is is Far reaching and and comprehensive great Any other questions man, you know, uh, you said you're a runner Where do you like to run in the city or what was your favorite part of the city to recreate? Uh, I have a normal loop right now where I go basically a long switch Down dorset Through the path between dorset and 116 Back over past the overlook and back and I end up Running around seven to eight miles one of the weather is good Okay, we just get some nice views there, too Oh, it's gorgeous Okay, any other comments or questions? Okay, I think you heard before what the process is and we will Let you know And did you um, maybe he could pronounce his last name. Yes, that would be nice So my name is rugby vankat ramen Vankat Dharaman Venkat ramen Venkyl Robin Okay, thank you. Well, thank you very much. Yeah Thank you. I appreciate your interest. All right. Great And then our third candidate just arrived. It looks like Oliver Pearson so Oliver if you're There he is okay Yeah, just joined good evening Good evening Good timing indeed All right, so it sounds as if you I I don't I only had I only printed off your Little letter and I can't remember how long have you lived in south Burlington? I've lived in south Burlington for about two and a half years. Okay, and let's see You're interested your natural resources management professional And I like to recreate and you coach your frequent users of fields bike paths and programs Um And you also are excited about the possibility of establishing an indoor rec Facility and you'd like to be part of that effort. Um So where do you particularly like to recreate in south Burlington? Well, we spend a lot of time at veterans park or dorset park both in terms of coaching a coach Baseball with the blue some girls or south Burlington little league and I've coached a rec soccer as well as soccer with the greater Burlington girls soccer league and we we hang out there for Rocket launching and just you know throwing the Frisbee around we use the different bike paths quite a bit We live in a neighborhood called butler farms and so Getting from butler farms through south Burlington into the Burlington city we use the bike path quite a bit there's some other open spaces that we try to use for Cross cross-country skiing and mountain biking outside of south Burlington places like mud pond and saxon hill, but I'll try to limit my comments to to south Burlington Areas so yeah, that's that's principally it the the small park between a veterans field dorset park the small wooded area And our neighborhood is is a place we go to quite a bit both You know for for hikes walks runs as well as to get the kids out into into a wooded area so Yeah, I think those are the the principal Places in in the the city of south We're not going to come to mind when we first moved here. We Live closer still in south Burlington closer to where the high school and the middle school are And so we use that new at the time in 2019 that new I believe it's called city center Park with that nice wooded area in the circular park in the center But we've moved a little bit further south and east we've used that a little bit less Great, so it sounds like you really use the parks near where you live That's great. Keep moving around and you'll know the whole city Yeah, good idea Are there any questions are are you familiar with the time commitment for the Have you have you attended or listened in on any of the meetings? Yeah, I've listened in To some of the meetings. I'm not super familiar with it. Um, I I'm assuming it's I'm more familiar with the time responsibilities of members of the school board and I've served on some of the Budget advisory committees of the school board and that you know, we're trying to get the the budget passed in 2020 That was a significant time commitment So I'm assuming it's equal to or less than what the school board members and different budget committees associated with them put in But if if I'm incorrect on that and it's a greater time commitment, please let me know I think it's probably less but But they are looking for three good people to run For the school board. I just want to give that one a few more years before I So I go ahead But that is a large time commitment. I think Parks and rec is probably more doable Any other questions or comments? All right, you weren't here when I just described the process and we will have an executive session at the end of the meeting tonight And if we still have the time and energy, um, we will take up the these applications and Select two we only have two openings Which is unfortunate because we have three excellent candidates, but um And then we'll let you know Okay. Yeah, sounds good. I um, hopefully I'll have the opportunity to serve if not, I'll I'll try again in the future I I currently work with the department of environmental conservation and and involved in a lot of natural resource management and fresh water Um resource management planning regulation And so have some skills in the day job like geographic information systems and running like consultation processes and dealing with implementation of regulations and and compliance as well as doing a lot of planning developing Lake and watershed related plans that some of those skills might be of use for the Recreation committee. So if it works out, I'm able to serve that be great And thank you for your time. Thank you very much for your interest and willingness to Donate time and energy and what sounds like a lot of experience and expertise So thank you Sure. Take care. I'll sign up then You know when it rains it pours sometimes Okay, we'll move on to um item eight. I know everyone's been waiting for this This is the mass main mandate Discussion and possible action. Did you want to go over the three options? Or you want me to I'm happy to do it What I Would like to lay out for the council. I'm sure you're well aware It seems as if we sort of have three buckets to consider One is to do nothing just Encourage people to wear masks In city hall and other places and hope that they do and wear your own mask if you want to and Not make anyone else. Um We also have the option to pass um Something that would just require would limit the requirement For wearing masks to city buildings So if you Come to city council meetings You'd be required to in in person you'd be required to wear a mask and in the building and in the library and The senior center and then I guess there's some parks and rec Opportunities or something that where you might have to Parks and rec does the majority of their inside activities at the school Already has a mandate that we adhere to okay and and then the third option Is something else and that could be um any number of ways to require Um and mandate the wearing of masks In all public areas both public and private Um where the public a private business or whatever where the public is allowed in It also the language we have Um also includes the kind of standard exemptions children under two If you have a physical disability Or medical um condition and can't wear a mask you're excused But other people regardless of your immunization status Would be required to wear a mask into different businesses And then tom had some Um variations on that theme Um, do you want to share them and then we can have a discussion and we'd be Happy to hear from the public and then I will also share my findings from my front porch forum Survey or whatever So I'll just make one comment and then I'd love to actually uh put my amendments on the shelf And I heard from counsel barrett a possible very small tweak to simplify a lot of this that I'd rather hear from him before I even waste our time on my amendments But I just want to make clear that what I didn't hear in your setup just because it's in the packet But I want the public to know we're talking about a time limited 30 days Maybe 45 I forget what the specific legislation is But we'll have to renew this every 30 days and it can't go past this coming april I'm sick of these things just like everybody else's and with the discussions tonight Are really just looking at these winter months during the second year of this pandemic So whatever we pass it's nothing in perpetuity. It will have to be renewed by us And it's not going to be here again this coming year So as much as i'm going to support some mask mandates of some variation tonight I'm not going to support it a year from now because I just think we'll be at a better place with all of our kids vaccinated I just want to state that from the outset that this is very time limited I'm happy to introduce my amendments, but I don't know if counsel barrett would feel comfortable with what you communicated to me via email I think it's worth putting on the table Sure What were you thinking? Well, thank you. I just wanted to make sure that we all review what the history of the mandates are in south grovington. First of all right, our original mandate was Decreed back in april of 2020. Is that what it was or? People are made and it went through june 30. Is that does anybody recall? I think so And I think it required masks everywhere indoors, right And I just want to remind people also that the the reason that we're here is because the legislature passed A bill that was signed by the governor giving municipalities the ability to pass their own mandates if they believe they would like to do that, right? And that burlington has already taken action on this, right? And and they have mandated masks in all indoor places In burlington, right? So that's restaurants retail city buildings everything right everybody has to wear a mask regardless I mean, maybe there's a provision for people with medical problems. I think there is okay But that's that's kind of the current status where we're at right now So that's important to know so in in conversations with a couple of retail owners I mean one possibility is that I think the retail owners are really leery of getting into the same type of situation they were back in april 2020 with Customers who who didn't want to wear and were being confronted that they had to wear And there was you know some animosity and then you know the employees felt uncomfortable So one possibility is that The sign could say that if you are fully vaccinated It's optional, but if you are unvaccinated it's mandated you have to wear a mask along with the other exceptions, right? So that's that's a possibility We're are we going to have further discussion among ourselves here? Yeah, okay. Is that now or do you want to wait till after the public weighs in? well, whatever I have some sort of responses that I am happy to share and if Other people have comments if not we can hear from the public So I'll go ahead. You know, I put this thing on front porch forum understanding that this isn't a beauty contest issue It is a tough question and And I guess my reaction to some of the comments that were like well, thanks Governor Scott you put us in this position I guess my feeling is this is really local control and everyone's all belly aching. We don't get enough local control So here we are we can decide what we're going to do in south burlington I also understand it's a difficult decision and you're going to annoy A certain group of people for sure It's it's not an easy decision, but I guess my reaction to that is Well, don't blame governor scott You know, if you don't want to make the decision as an elected leader then don't run This is a tough decision and we'll make it tonight and we've made lots of decisions But I just I'm not angry with the governor of him foisting this on us I reached out to across all the front porch forums and There's probably some more in my inbox, but about 188 people responded So I get it. This isn't the whole city Voting it's only the people who Are members of front porch forum But I did it because I just wanted to get a sense of where at least those readers are Where that those public members And of all those numbers there were 151 who were pretty emphatic about we really should have um a mandate everywhere they felt that the science and the success of Wearing the mask last winter cut down on lots of other diseases and um, they felt that It was certainly appropriate to continue that There were 20 out 26 people who were Very definitely don't do this. I'm tired of it. It doesn't work. Um, we don't need it Trust me. I wear them, but I don't want to impose it on anyone else There were nine who were a little cautious Who said well think about the tone and how you're gonna um follow up on this and Just make it simple and easy And then there were two people who said don't do anything Um, I thought there were a couple comments that I'll share with you that Um, I thought were sort of interesting. Um, I will say out of the 188 there were a great number of medical providers There was a handful who were in the no column Which in some ways surprised me, but they had said they had read different Um articles and research and weren't convinced that masks make a difference um And I there was a 84 year old woman who I thought kind of Captured what a lot of people were saying and she said, you know, I hate the masks. They fog up my glasses I can't stand wearing them But if it means it's protecting myself and others Then it's no big deal And we should all wear them so those were kind of two different sides Some people suggested vaccine passports for inside dining Just do it on the city buildings and let business make their own decision um So it was, you know, a real breadth of comments and I think Many of them they were long. This was a lot of reading game because people didn't just say yes or no But they explained their thinking and included quite a few links Some of which were really excellent. I didn't go to every single one of them But some were really very excellent. So if anyone wants some more reading, I can share them with you But that was the um Result of innocently asking the public. What do you think? um Any other comments that people have Okay, I'm sorry Well, I I just uh, want to say that I I do believe in the science I do believe that masks do make a difference. Um, therefore I wear a mask every time I go out and go grocery shopping um, I have to say it is hard for me as a legislator to impose things without data and I um You know, uh, I would say Not poised to impose enforcement on minimum wage workers um, given the the passion surround surrounding this issue, but also uh, given the fact that grocery stores tend to be big wide open spaces Where shoppers can choose If there are people there, I am going to keep my 10 feet distance from them And I I'm also You know very wary to be honest sorry for all the restaurants, but I would rather order out than eat in a restaurant I think that taking off masks and speaking and eating that is a very and that has been documented likely way Or a place where where infection can occur as well as social gatherings So Therefore I'm very careful in my private life and in my my social my social life I I tread lightly uh when it comes to Imposing something that I think is fairly under control in south berlington Um, if we look at the data that you did provide in the memo We see that infections are incurring in locations where There are fewer people getting the vaccine Um, and south berlington has a very high rate of vaccination. Could we do better? Yes, and I encourage everybody to Be fully vaccinated and to get the booster and if you have children at five or over You can now vaccinate your children and I do believe in the science. I I believe in the safety of these things so Um I have a 10 year old daughter and she just got her second dose on saturday Um, and my sons who are 21 and 23 are vaccinated and boosted As are my husband and I so I I just That's where I I sit it's it's something that I would consider for the city buildings because we do have Like story time where there are I think clusters where children can get together um Or the senior center, but again, I I do Look at the data in south berlington and I Would be interested to know if infections have been linked to our 180 market street or to other you know Locations where the public goes into a public building um And if not, I I could leave it as is That it's it's it's a tough call. It's a very tough call, but I I think that Fear is is not a way to legislate You should not legislate from fear and I think that the data that we do have indicates that um Our numbers in south berlington are indicative of the sense of responsibility And and the sense that we are all in this together and we care for one another just like the 84-year-old woman Who wrote to you? I think that is the sentiment of a majority of south berlington residents and we're very fortunate for that So it sounds as if you would at a Maybe maximum Have a mandate in city buildings But not in the in public buildings. Is that after it? I I think yes, and I would very much Encourage Places of business that you know, of course serve the public that they post their policy And I think though as users we kind of know what the policy is By going in and and using and we make our decisions and we make our decisions based On that and because of the high level of compliance in south berlington. I think that our residents are making good decisions Good, okay Tom, where are you on this? So I'm happy to hear from tim, but I think you skipped over one of the options the city manager laid out too Which is we can collect more information and consider this down the road in two weeks from now Oh, yeah, that's sort of doing nothing, but yes So I I'm actually comfortable with that as well. Um, I I agree. We shouldn't make decisions out of fear The one of the exceptions was going to be an opt-out exception to that I was going to propose but I don't think we need to use the time on that tonight But if the numbers or if the city manager comes back to us with concerns that It is being transmitted in public spaces two weeks from now. We can maybe consider this then So I'm uncomfortable with that same position that councillor emory just outlined But I'd love to hear from other councillors Matt Yes, thank you Mass helps slow the spread of COVID Very vaccines reduce the risk of getting COVID And in a breakthrough case is the severity of the illness Mass enforcement is incredibly complicated Incredibly complicated And we cannot we should not Put that burden on private business owners and their employees So that's out for me Whether or not we pass a mandate for this building and other city-owned buildings We are putting the burden on the manager of that building, which is our city manager, Jesse Baker I'd like to hear from her Yeah, would that be a onerous to Carry out And enforce To the extent that you would enforce it So I think our team has thought a lot about this for city-owned buildings specifically 180 is the one that would get the most public traffic Um, and I think Our staff is divided on whether there should be a mandate or not I think that it makes some sense to model that behavior if that is some a culture We want to set for the community that we would model it. I will say quite frankly It is something we are more or less doing anyway. Very very few people are coming into this building Not in masks So I think we would be comfortable with that. I think we would take an education Approach, you know, we obviously provide masks at the front door If somebody came in not wearing a mask, we'd ask them to put a mask on and really use that Education approach rather than a strong enforcement approach, which is also the approach that Uh, municipal officials have used throughout the pandemic when the mass mandate was on Under the governor's authority as well So if if the council decides to go with a mandate for city-owned buildings that are open to the public Um, we can do that and we would request doing that without strict Uh, ticketing or police enforcement but through education of our neighbors That sounds like a good plan Okay, kim So I have this really great article that peggy noonan wrote for the wall street journal a couple weeks ago I just want to just to make a statement and then quote a section of it So I'm really thankful that we have the vaccines that we have today And she says but it doesn't completely protect you from infection as we know from the percentage of people that are vaccinated who Who actually, you know Become infected but have very reduced symptoms. She goes what the vaccine does is crucial It seriously reduces the chance you will become ill and if you do it dramatically reduces the chance You will be hospitalized or die That is an achievement and a blessing for the aged who have been slaughtered by the illness If you don't get the shot you are in my judgment foolish And if you don't fear long covet and its effects you are not paying attention But the number of breakthrough cases is something most of us have begun to factor in A few months ago such cases were surprising quote joe got the virus and he got vaccinated twice Well now it's fairly common occurrence abc news two weeks ago reported that vermont Which has the highest vaccination rate in the country seeing a surge in new cases And breakthrough cases among vaccinated residents were up 31 percent that week The point is is that Even if you're vaccinated you can still spread this disease The whole impetus of our scientific approach is to stop the spread of this virus as much as possible Wearing masks indoors in closed spaces can help reduce the transmission So it's up to us. I think to take the steps that we can To promote the best public health policy in that respect Now it's not going to be perfect. Nothing we do is going to be perfect and every retail establishment is going to have different Amounts of of their own type of enforcement, whether it's like in a public building where it's educational and they're masked the front door But I also would want to allow Retail owners to make their own decisions and say they could raise the bar if they want to whatever we decide And they could say everybody has to wear a mask and then that that's their business to manage it on their own So I just I wanted to make that point and and the point of the mask is to protect yourself Even if you're vaccinated from getting infected because you could turn around and spread it to your family Who spreads it to somebody else who spreads it to somebody's grandmother? And then that grandmother's not around anymore, all right So that's I mean that's our job It doesn't have to be tonight and we're going to hear a lot of input from people But I think it's really important that we know now a lot of things we didn't know in march of 2020 We have a vaccine. We know how it spreads And we just need to be vigilant about the steps that we take to make sure people don't give it to each other That's all So you so just so I understand you Are you interested in not requiring it anywhere but letting city hall? Encourage and yeah, so city not require but encourage as well as businesses the city hall I think I think we should require it because it's it's there. They are the city's buildings and we can set that mandate But for retail establishments where the public is invited in I think that those owners should be able to say if they want to everybody has to wear a mask Otherwise we would say if you're vaccinated, it's not required, but if you're unvaccinated it is required And then the enforcement has to be left alone because there's no way we're going to be able to provide any enforcement for that around the city Okay, yeah, yes jesse. I'm sorry Point of clarification. Maybe it's the city manager knows this But my understanding is that stores and establishments right now have the right to to require masks and we are doing nothing They have that ability if we could just confirm that and other than that. I agree with everything the council bearer just said Yeah, that's my understanding. Yes Just like they can say if you don't have a shirt on you can't come in Right or shoes I'd be curious when if there's any business people that come up how they handle no shirt no Shoes know whatever it is, you know versus a mask Okay, if Okay, I haven't weighed in and I'm actually Of the thinking that it would make sense to mandate the mess But I mean clearly I'm in the minority But I do think since that will carry If we do anything I guess I think we have gotten kind of lax with All the steps it takes To really prevent the spread. No one's really talking about washing their hands very much anymore I do when I come back from the store and I but you know a couple months ago I seem to be washing my hands every 15 minutes We don't really talk about staying six feet away. You get in line at the grocery store and You know, it's almost a challenge to keep Six feet in front of you because the person behind you are right next to you So you move up a step or two and then they move up and I find that Kind of annoying and it's also another indication of People really don't think potentially that it's It's really that bad that we've nailed this sucker. You know, we've had two jabs and a booster and We're okay So I think if we go the route of letting everyone make their own decision including the public I I hope that we can continue and I don't know in what format but this Kind of encouragement and education of Yeah, but still don't go into a room where there's 30 people in a teeny room Without a mask because that's really putting you and everyone else a danger Not that we can stop them from doing that but just kind of reminding people wash your hands, you know clean surfaces and wear a mask if you're concerned that you might be carrying covet or You know don't want to um Get it from somebody Or think about, you know, if you're going to an old Kind of a senior event. Maybe you should just wear the mask And because they're um really at risk or you go into the children's section of the library and you know darn well that They're under five. They're not vaccinated And that's kind of being thoughtful So that's kind of where I am Yeah, and I'll also being thoughtful to the medical personnel who Your life depends on if you do get critically ill We've seen At least I speak for myself. I've seen news reports where the medical personnel nurses in particular they're quitting It's too stressful And and it is I think Something that we as a society Have to consider that there Our personal decisions lead to how Outcomes that could determine how well our system works And the system is in place to to serve us All of us And so I I just I I cannot be More adamant that when people Say well, yeah, but if your glasses steam up that means you're you know, some of the Terms are being released. Yes, of course. This does not take out 100 percent I've seen a hundred percent and it's truly like wearing a gas mask But it's taking out a significant amount Of that breath that's being expelled And and therefore reduces the risk and that's what it's all about. It's reducing the risk And same thing with the vaccine. It reduces the risk. We all React differently to vaccines. We all react differently to to the the virus And we've had viruses before we know our children don't have anything but they've given us a whopping cold, right? We all react differently and so we have to I think really be thoughtful And and try to educate ourselves. So I really appreciate That approach that you've suggested Jesse educating the public and And it hits all kinds of fronts the impact on our society and on our healthcare system Also, how viruses work. I think that's a really They're darn hard to to deal with As we know So It's it's something that should humble us Tom and then if no one else on the council we can Just want to say one other thing I want to echo councillor coda's concern my other amendment if we were moving forward with requiring it citywide Was going to speak about enforcement and to not put the burden on our frontline retail employees They they already do so much and I would want to shield them from that if we do break this up at a future discussion So the two amendments. I don't think are worth bringing forward in full detail But if we come back to consider a citywide mask mandate in the future I would want to have those considered All right, are there any public members who would like to comment? Okay, michael And if folks could come up to the microphone to speak you can just line up And and do please stand six feet apart. Yeah Madam Madam chairs are tight time limit per speaker. Pardon me. Is there a time limit per speaker? Yeah, just two minutes Two seconds. Okay. Um, my name is Michael Mitter. I live in South Burlington for the last 20 years I'm fairly old and And even immunocompromised I'd like to pick up on something that the councillor emory said which is Let's get the data I can't for the life of me imagine how somebody would say let's wait until everybody gets sick and then do something It's coming. We know it's coming. It's coming from where I was born in a hurry So you can't you can't in good conscience say well, we don't have the data let data. Let's wait and see if People get sick because they're not wearing a mask Um Mandating it for businesses I don't know. I don't have an answer for that Uh, councillor Cota and councillor Chittenden Don't want to impose that on on businesses so be it I've just come back from visiting my children in Canada You can't get any in anywhere. That's public a restaurant or a bar Without showing a vaccination certificate and your id so they know You're telling the truth Um And they haven't done too badly in Quebec particularly and also in hontaria. So Um, I know you can you can tell I'm in favor of a mandate In all public buildings Restaurants and businesses some of them have good Good policies which they enforce Whether you choose to ask them to enforce it That's up to you, but in in my opinion you should We're gonna get Omicron here We don't know how bad it is But I'm not going anywhere where I'm going to be Exposed to people without a mask And you shouldn't either Okay Hi, good evening council. I appreciate you guys taking up this discussion tonight. My name is dr. Michael Summers I'm a business owner also a health care provider. I serve on my state board And this is a difficult conversation that you guys have been It's been passed down to you, but I think it is the the town's responsibility I personally I think that when we take a look at the data we look at our vaccination rates in south berylington 70 plus 90 percent have had a one So I think it comes down to doing the right thing And when we take a look at south berylington residents, I say we're doing the right thing One of the the councilman I heard you say, you know, we shouldn't put it on the the business owners to take responsibility for enforcing protocols Right, and we've been serving on the ground The whole pandemic we've been Following protocols. We've been implementing mandates We've been doing all the right things and I think that shows so To say here today, we need to implement a further mandate. I think we're taking a step backwards You know, we're telling promontors that what you've been doing is not enough I think You know me personally, I think that we've been doing everything we can I think it's enough I think when you when you go out into the community people are doing the right thing 90 percent of people at the grocery store are wearing masks I don't think this needs to be something that you have to tell people you need to do this because you're telling them that Hey, we don't trust that you're doing the right thing when vermonters are doing the right thing Thank you. Thank you, michael Well, thank you for Putting this together and inviting us in my name is dean roland. Some of you. I know you've been in my store I'm the owner of dave's cosmic subs just right around the corner So I come at this as a um a business owner concerned citizen um And I look at it from a broad picture and I've got some notes here to give context from a restaurant Dealing with staffing challenges a variety of things. So I think a mass mandate certainly I can speak from a restaurant retail standpoint Is not recommended first that will reduce business Which I've seen people come and go And we serve the public we serve the public following health department protocols as well And I think it also will when we had this last spring when everything hit Business got hammered by 50 percent Which in result reduces the tax revenue. So this is also a tax burden to concern The businesses get crimped and people stop and shrink you'll also get Less tax revenue from things because it directly impacted us the check that we wrote to the state every quarter was off Significantly because we had less receipts um It directly Looks also it from from our standpoint Our customers aren't in there longer than five minutes unless they eat And they eat and they eat without a mask because you can't eat without one. So it's a kind of a dichotomy um We wipe everything down we sanitize we have a serious Fan in the back that is circulating air and pulling air out all the time. It's also very hot I'm more concerned about heat exhaustion wearing a mask next to a 386 degree oven Than I am with this and I have employees You want to talk about the stress on businesses hiring people maintaining people From that standpoint Someone mentioned the minimum wage workers. We don't pay minimum wage businesses I worked my butt off to make it happen. We treat them very well However, they've worked in other restaurants in and around south burlington burlington So I hear things firsthand of how that works. So It actually hurts us trying to actually hire people and sustain employees with the turnover and everything going on um So for me What I've done is I put up a sign Early on this is if you have covid symptoms from a policy standpoint back to education Please don't come in Now it's an honor system But if you're feeling you'll find you don't have you you're welcome to come in you can you can wear a mask you don't We're standing six feet apart anyways of people in the back are six feet So by the default the way our business is set up. It's following a lot of the safe practices to begin with So i'm looking at it from a Kind of a mid-ground From not a mandate and let people choose the way they go and our employees everybody's cleaning their hands It's safe and we've been fortunate. We've had no issues through the whole pandemic We complied with the mandates that came down earlier back last year where you had to serve outside. We have take out It's crazy. We have four different Revenue streams just trying to stay functioning between all the online stuff the delivery stuff It's insane. So I have some people who can't handle it and they quit So as a byproduct of all that I have a business infrastructure that i'm trying to serve the public That's a challenge. We're working through it. We're doing the best we can But thank you for listening to what what we have to say and I think it's certainly A personal choice, but I understand closed quarters long spaces people sitting next to each other for hours It's a completely different context because of the exposure But our exposure is five minutes or less and the doors are open and closing. Thank you again I appreciate that and letting us speak. Thank you. Good luck Eli can you hold on just a moment because we have a woman online and she has to go pick up her daughter So jennifer skinner sissy Yes, thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, we can thank you Yes, thank you council members for opening up this discussion for the public One of the things I constantly think about when we talk about masking mandates is When you buy a box of disposable masks, it says right on it not intended to prevent the transmission of covid and you know, I understand You know, if I had a cold and I would go out and wear a mask But the asymptomatic spread I haven't seen any data to really support that Clearly, you've probably figured out by now. I'm not in favor of a mandate for people I believe we need to let them choose I think that there is valid science on both sides of this issue There's data that shows that masks cause kids harm You know, there's data that shows that it can help slow the transmission But what it really comes down to is placing unconstitutional restrictions on commerce For people, um, you know, and I think the governor is is doing the right thing by not declaring another state of emergency because I think a lot of a lot of our Life and liberty and pursuit of happiness was completely trounced on and covid I'm recovered from it. It was no joke But we also need to remember that covid here is stick to stay There's articles that are coming out of south africa that say that omicron has mild cold cold symptoms There's tons of like I said, there's data on both sides of the fence I look at it from a from a constitutional perspective that we really should be letting people decide what to do with their own bodies In terms of no shirt, no shoes. I don't breathe out of my toes or my Other areas that would be covered by a A shirt so covering the breath covering the airways is it's it's a big deal So I think that we need to let people choose. I think we need to uphold our oaths um support the constitutions of um the state and That's that's it. That's what I have to say. Thank you very much Thank you okay, elah Eli Lester goldsmith Local business owner 35 year south berlington taxpayer A lot of talk um of grocery stores tonight. So Here I am to answer any grocery store questions you may have I just would like to start by saying I want to thank everyone Up here. I've talked to each one of you between Last week and now and I really appreciate the ability to have an open and an honest dialogue with each of you It's so refreshing. I feel like in politics these days. It's Either people don't write you back or they just ignore you but in south berlington I really feel listened to and heard and I just really wanted to say I appreciate that and I thank you for that You know, we've been open Throughout this we've never closed down. We've never been a remote workplace. We've served the public Every single day We also have three stores in two states thousands of people through our door every day. We have 350 staff We've never had a single Case of covet transmitted And you can check contact tracing In our business and i'm proud of that Um You know the thing I want to stress the most is that what the way it is now Works so well from an operational standpoint. It's calm. It's peaceful. It's happy for staff and guests When there's a mandate It creates a confrontational Angry nervous. There's all these other adjectives that that come into the fold and for People that are making 15 16 17 dollars an hour It's kind of like they didn't sign up for that and to have them have to enforce that it's just The during the last mandate it was some of the toughest times operating our business in the in the history of our business and It was really hard. We lost a lot of staff people were scared There were people screaming at one another and the way it is now like other people have been saying for the most part Everyone wears a mask. Everyone's cool. Everyone is respectful I don't think in vermont you have a large population of People who are Going to blatantly do things to Annoy other people. I think there's a general level of respect and calmness with vermonters and i'm proud of that too so I am advocating tonight to to leave it as is Um And uh, because I think it's working well now Thank you Hi, welcome. Thank you so much. Um, my name is dr. Susie Harris. I'm a natural health physician And I have a practice in south burlington and I want to echo the sincerity of thanking you for this is a dialogue It feels like a respectful dialogue Which is um burlington was a hot mess. That was not fun Um, but I'm here because I have patients in my office. I've been in business for 20 years and um One size fits all for medical choice of what you do for your wellness doesn't work for everyone I'm in a style of of health care that most of the people that end up in my office the protocol typical medical protocols Didn't work for them. So they had to kind of look outside the box um I don't know. I think dispelling fear is like my biggest heart moment here I feel like I'm trying to do my part Educating people about early treatment prevention Like we're saying don't forget wash your hands, you know The masks. I'm not a big fan of the masks. Um, my staff I actually witnessed their immune systems drop a bit When they were using them all day long But we wear them when people are nervous and when we have people who are getting chemo or elders You know who are in our space. We are respectful And um, you know take care of that in that way um One thing I do want to say is when we say we believe in the science And we're giving a tone of that masks work and vaccines are great I worry about that tone because there are data sets To support my mentors who have helped me stay on the edge of helping people for 20 years would disagree with That science You can always find a paper to support your position, right? At all sides can do that. So, um, a healthy uh public health forward Dialogue about the middle ground and how we try to help. I do not I can't imagine your jobs just to say it's got to be hard in these positions But I am quite um I wanted to speak to the fear The divisive fear I hope you don't vote for a mandate and if you did I would certainly stay So far away from if you have your vaccines you are exempt from wearing a mask There is no science to show that you transmit less um It's just not showing that as far as I can see um If you're someone who thinks you want your store to have people wear a mask, please just say on your door My business I'm comfortable with you wearing a mask in here And if people don't like that they'll go to a different business that's not feeling that way You know, it's a little touchy, but The other thing I wanted to say is most of the people That are so against masks are because they are so convinced that this is a greased slide for map for mandating vaccines and that I will be Calling and emailing and probably standing out your driveway with coffee for you in the morning to say one more time Why I think mandates on masks or um vaccines are a terribly bad idea. I'm helping people through Vaccine injury in my office. I have many people who didn't vaccinate and they're doing great Who've had covid and recovered and are doing great. I have people who got vaccinated and are doing great Some of them are more of my vaccinated people seem to be getting sick quicker right now I don't know why that is. Um, they're not going to the hospital Because we're doing early treatment and all this good stuff But I have people who are very injured. I had a 23 year old young woman who experienced a tear and an artery From her vaccine and her doctors did feel it was from her shot Mostly it's brain fog fatigue Lack of endurance the athletes, you know, who and these are the people who are having a hard time Many people are not Thank you. So, um I just think one size doesn't fit all and I think anything you can do to take our public health into consideration, which does include These lockdowns and things like that that are causing increased poverty food insecurity domestic violence suicide rates I mean, it's so complex Thank you for listening to me. Thank you Okay, is this two people two more. Okay, we've michael and then two other people um on Line, is there anyone else in the audience who wanted to speak? Okay, all right Good evening, uh, mike someone else south burlington resident business owner Uh, also member of the uh, board of our local south burlington business association Not here in an official capacity from the business association But I I can tell you that uh, many on our board received a number of phone calls from business owners who were expressing their thoughts and opinions and then we spent time determining whether or not We wanted to take a position ourselves And uh people's attitudes towards mandates and the uh, you know, how severe they might be were really different a great deal And there are occasions when uh, you need to you know, kind of respect that if you've got differences you You can't have uniformity with your approach to problem solving. You got to figure out a way to reconcile your differences. So Uh, personally I don't mind wearing a mask everywhere Uh, I mean somebody walks into the door of my business and we're not wearing masks right now We're not normally wearing masks if I see somebody wearing a mask. It's it's amazing just about everybody will grab a mask And I'll we'll put one on to you know, show respect For the concern that people will have Uh, I have a lot of empathy for the business owners particularly in the in the retail and the restaurant And uh, I have faith that they are doing what they think is the right thing We're really not confronted with the fear that we had a year ago about what could happen And I think we're in a good place maybe to measure our response and to uh, Uh, you know consider the concerns of people in our uh, Retail business community so no on a uniform mandate But I have no problem putting on that mask when I walk into our municipal offices or any place else where uh Somebody says hey, this is the way we're doing business. So thank you. Thank you Why don't you come and then we'll get the two online Good evening. My name is Christopher Regiro. I'm a South Burlington resident Um, I also have served our my country for 31 years. It's going to be 32 in February Um, soon to retire and um, I would just like to say that I serve my country And try to I mean what I think that I've been doing for 30 some years is protecting everybody's freedoms And I think it's very important that we and I think that you From what I've heard so far you've taken this very seriously and and are thinking about um Different repercussions and the second and third order effects of the decisions that you make and You know at what level, you know, we're here because we're concerned that we're at a certain level What's the next level and what's the next concern and the thing that can be taken after that? So if there is a taking of of asking people to or mandating to do something, where does it go? And when does it end and how high, you know, what what will force you to do something else and as somebody who Has dedicated his life to providing and making sure that everybody in this country has their freedom I would like to keep mine because See start taking them away. They go away and I've seen it overseas and I don't want us to become a country like that and the fact that this has been Pushed down to at your level is concerning to me But I also feel that we have a good team here and I believe that you'll make a good decision. Thank you Thank you We have Gina Barnaby on line Gina if you turn on your Mike hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Thank you My yes, good evening. Thank you so much I am a resident of colchester But I am a faithful patron of south berlington shops and businesses And so I'm very interested in what you're doing Um, I wanted to say thank you so very much for having this meeting about the possibility of masking mandates And I just have a few points to share with you And then I'm happy to provide my email if you'd like further information or documentation So number one, I just want to say that I shop in berlington as I said and I feel very welcomed as a vermonter Who has a medical mask exemption? To those who have special health conditions Should work with their medical provider if they need a respirator to filter or purify their own individual breathing The size of coronavirus particles are between point one and point five microns A surgical mask is a class two medical device And it does not and i'm quoting from the fda website The surgical masks do not provide a reliable level of protection from aerosolized particles And they are not considered respiratory protective devices I hope that you heard that and it's very clear to you So although people may feel very comfortable wearing a mask and it it allows like A social distancing aspect by putting the mask on Really in reality someone who truly needs health respiratory protection needs something much more than just a surgical or a cloth mask or a gator or whatever kind of masking So each individual has their own needs Um, I will say personally that um, I've done a lot of research about the united states And there are 28 states currently that do not have masking mandates for their states. That's 28 states So there are 22 states that have either recommendations or mandates either for schools and or businesses And so i'm happy to provide that information as well And I just want to say that i've done a lot of research as well in terms of vermont kids because i'm a teacher I've been a teacher for over 20 years in public schools. I've never worn a mask until this pandemic I recently received a medical mask exemption in the spring of this year So I masked the entire time until I realized that it didn't work for me It also doesn't work for my family and we have asthma as well as respiratory conditions And all of us either didn't have covet or we had mild symptoms My husband was diagnosed with covet and we didn't catch the virus or the illness or we had symptoms that we didn't even know So I just I hope this information is helpful to you We realize that blanket masking does not suit everyone It needs to be individualized because one size does not fit all and i'm so thankful for your heart of service And god bless you all for your hard work, and we thank you so much. Thank you Madison Hi, can you hear me weekend? Wonderful, um, I'll just echo what a few other folks have said already. Um, I really appreciate you taking the time to Hear out various individuals and you know the various perspectives here um while I did not participate in the burlington city council meeting I did Unfortunately hear how it went um and to take away citizens right to speak on a decision that is going to Significantly impact their day-to-day life is um, Apparent I think so I really do appreciate you taking the time to hear everyone out I'm a patient of dr. Susie's who spoke a few folks ago And i'm also the daughter of someone who has experienced pretty severe vaccine injury from this vaccine specifically There's so much to digest here, and I know that this Council meeting in particular was or is meant to make a decision around mask mandating However, um as another individual spoke on this is a very slippery slope And I think that we've seen that slippery slope in you know various ways in various cities counties states You know all over the country for the past almost two years now And to use science and if I was in person there I would definitely be putting air quotes around that to push a decision when it's also become very clear that The science is not being recognized um in the same way depending on you know who it is that you want to listen to I think dr. Susie mentioned that you can find You know a white paper probably even um for to support anything because a lot of this is very new But a lot of it isn't very new I think that we know or we should know at this point how we can protect and who we need to protect and then how to protect various Citizens, you know who are going to be more significantly impacted by a virus like covid We also know and this has been proven that uh six foot social distancing rule is arbitrary We know that the masks um and the person right before me spoke very very clearly on the data around that Does not actually do anything to block the viral particles and I've heard a few people talk about how you know, well it blocks the droplets and we also know now if you take the time to speak to Individuals who spend their lives studying this that you actually aerosolized those particles when you use a mask so I would just echo everything that dr. Susie said To be very very careful about how you use that term science and that you are listening to the science Until you have actually done the work to listen to both sides of the science and potentially also listened to You know more folks who have been negatively impacted whether it's psychologically or physiologically Mentally, you know buy these masks and also buy the vaccines before you make these decisions Which is obviously what you're doing right now And I just really appreciate that so i'm also confident that you'll make the right decision to not impose a mask mandate Okay, thank you very much All right, it looks like we managed to listen to everyone who wanted to speak so Sure No, not a second time michael just Do the running a little bit late and we've got the Another minor issue with the ldr wasn't sure if I wanted to speak or not, but um This gentleman right here. I want to thank you so much for your service. I came prepared. Would you please give us your name? I'm sorry. My name is catherine metropolis. I am a property owner here in south berlington Do all my shopping here in south berlington I want to speak about the rights of people and the slippery slope that someone's talked about with our military I have here a picture of my uncle john regal operas who was killed in 1944 In the war this picture of him dead That was taken in 1944. I want you to really Do your research on world war two in our history and understand that this is a very slippery slope And i'm very concerned about the united states of america. Thank you very much All right, so council. What is your pleasure? I feel comfortable moving to adopt the resolution for the city buildings Okay, would you like to make that motion? So moved second Okay, is there any further discussion? It was in the packet. I don't know if we really need to read it all. Do we it's the one that um Limits the face Coverings for all individuals in the city of south berlington to wear a mask covering Um That covers at least their mouth and nose within city-owned buildings in the city of south berlington that are open to the public it also includes the Exemptions that are they're not required for children under two A person with a disability who cannot wear a face mask covering or cannot safely wear a face mask for reasons Related to their disability A person for whom wearing a face mask would create a risk To workplace health safety or job duty as determined by the workplace risk assessment Or any person while eating or drinking Inside a city-owned building that is open to the public And then it's I mean that's the gist of it So so we have a uh motion to um And a second for this resolution so that's the resolution without any requirement for other uh public right it's limited to city-owned Buildings which includes city hall the library city center or excuse me the senior center and works this building Yeah, public works Oh, okay During this time It's 45 days and then we have to um if we wish to extend it We would have to have another meeting To take another vote to extend it for another 30 days is my understanding And that would continue until If we so wished um April I think it includes the month of april You heard april 30th by recall correctly until 30th All right, what i'm worried about is that we have a post vaccine complacency And then you added that the delta variant right forget about omicron for now And that has increased the infection rates And that's why our our surges through the roof compared to the previous two surges, right? And and I worry that there's some component of that where the complacency is happening inside Spaces where people are not doing what they did before back You know before the vaccine actually arrived and if we do nothing about that and and i'm not asking to um to somehow you know Take away our personal freedoms for this right but we have a collective public health issue that we all have to contribute to To help solve for those people that get vaccinated You're doing the right thing for those people that don't you're taking a chance and a risk And I wish you would reconsider But when you go into a retail space You really need to think about whether you should have a mask on or not And I at the very least I would love to see a revolution that said that every You know open public retail place in south brine has a sign that says Masks are strongly encouraged for everyone period And I really enjoyed the the business owner that said that you know They probably have 90 compliance as it is right now Which is really great for south brine and I'm not surprised at all that people behave that way But I'm worried that complacency has has given people what they think is the You know the ability to just take off their mask and forget about it And it's like that's just going to spread the virus some more our intent is to stop the spread the transmission as much as we can So I mean at the very least every business should have a sign that says masks are strongly encouraged I don't know if we can require that but it seems like it's a small thing to do to at least remind everybody That that's what they're supposed to do in enclosed places social distance and wear your mask I mean I think though there are ways to educate just like jesse said with regard to how the policy that We've had a motion on and a second on would be implemented and I see no issue Um with us taking those steps to educate at spba meeting uh at You know other other meetings That we could gain entrance to in some way I I think that it's important for us to continue that culture of being mindful of others and and and realize That this is not over yet. I agree with you. We are still in a public health emergency I agree with you Well, can the city? Oh god, how many businesses are there that are open to the public? I mean, could we send a letter that I include this resolution and then a request a plea to um Should we deal with that separately and should we should we pass the motions on the table? I mean is that it's a that's not part of the motion Okay, so you weren't making an amendment. You would just make you want to vote on the motion We can go ahead and vote and I'll just not support it but Because I think that we should take some other step above that But not I mean, I don't we can't require you really can't require People to wear a mask I understand that what you need to do is to remind them of the responsibility Because they're a citizen within a society And trans and viruses spread from person to person right as long as this thing keeps spreading We're going to have it for quite a while Are you proposing an amendment to get you so we could have a unanimous no I don't know how we could yeah, we could You know Do that and and have every business put that sign on their door I mean if we mandated it and said that you know if you're Vaccinated it's not required if you're unvaccinated is required that would be the mandate right we have the sign It's on the front of this building here We certainly could share it with spba and with the business community Mandating every business put it up though and face a penalty for not placing it something No penalty, but he was just saying just request them or plead with them or or Encourage them That we have the we have the education materials available I'm sure we get digital copy could be sent to the folks at spba and other business associations other business groups And if they choose to put it up on their sign on their wall We would encourage it Yeah I I completely agree with you tim do you need a formal amendment to say we're asking the city manager to Communicate these materials to all businesses that operate in the city. It's out there linkedin Well, we could just say that afterwards. I don't think it needs to be in the resolution. I'd love to get your vote Because you know, you know, no, no, no, I mean I real real close now. I just I whatever is Mechanically possible for the the city manager. I don't want to put a huge burden to have to The contact every business, but yeah, I can email the pd after the spba spba could distribute it out there We can also easily make that public that PDF available on the city website So folks can go on and and reach for it and download it and put it out in our we'll do a media Release about this whatever you all decide tonight tomorrow. We can include it in that So well, we can ask at another therefore where we encourage all businesses Right to post signage that encourages people to wear masks, right? That's Okay, yeah, yeah, me too. Is sue online. Did you get that sue as an amendment? So it'd be Third Before it says the rule in addition to all our other ordinances will in applicable It would be now therefore be it resolved So I think we should use a result or something I will tell you honestly. I hate wordsmithing on the fly Yeah, I resolve now they're board therefore be it resolved between the two at a One one a and b that says The council directs the city manager to widely publicize education information and encourage businesses to Post information Mask Encouraging it's not a mandate So are you comfortable voting on something that isn't printed out before you with the understanding that our City attorney is probably smart enough to remember what to put in it Yes Okay, and and I think we have to go back to what that 84 woman 84 year old woman said in her reply to you Helen She doesn't like it But she knows that it is helpful Right to to ensure that we get through this and and that people are protected and and it It's it's shown even in states where mandates don't exist that mask wearing helps I've seen that Well, I will support this I would have gone a step further and I still believe that that's a better um policy But I think this um gets us a little farther forward Because I agree with you Tim. It's not over and I think too many people are kidding themselves that We can just go back to having big parties and You know go into a bar with 40 other people and take off our masks and No problem Yeah Okay, so you're ready for the vote All those in favor with this resolution with that additional amendment Signified by saying I It passes five zero. Thank you very much public for Involving yourself in this conversation Okay, we're going to move on and I apologize for a little late But it's just the land use development regulations So Oh, yeah, we got the budget too We have a lot going on yes Welcome Jessica And Paul So while they're thank you for coming While they're getting set up because I think Paul's going to plug in I also I really appreciate the positive respectful nature of that discussion I know you guys aren't monitoring the chat, but even in the chat. It was very respectful. So thank you community Should we just get started when we're ready? Sure Yes, please I think we were waiting for okay. Yeah, but if you would like to start talking Yeah, you only have in the interest of time. I get clearly we don't have Tim is the only one of the timer Okay, so I'm Jessica Luisos. I'm the chair of the planning commission. I'm here with Paul Connor the director of planning and zoning To give an overview of the draft land development regulations. So as you know, this is Hundreds of pages long. So, you know in the interest of time, we're going to Summarize and give the high points and be available for questions Um If you move on, um You know, the big picture here is that um, you know, we've been working for for multiple years here And on an ongoing effort to implement the comprehensive plan goals We had had our last big overview of that in 2016 So we're still kind of working through a lot of the recommendations from that comp plan amendment Um, we've also been working towards the implementation of the goals of your interim zoning Um, so specifically, um, we've been working to accomplish the planning commission task to complete the planned unit development and master planning piece of the interim zoning study which specified that we should Include a study of density of development in open spaces um, we also have been working towards the um The interim zoning goal to implement protections for open spaces. So we have multiple different types of open spaces newly protected under the draft and you know as part of that we're trying to be good stewards of the land and um Come up with thoughtful and efficient use of our land by prioritizing our open spaces As well as then, you know, efficiently using the land we are developing on for um You know really furthering the goals of the city So I think one of the things that I'm excited about with the these goals is the it's going to really put us at the forefront Um in the state on multiple different levels both in the inclusionary um affordable housing Area hazard mitigation conservation as well as in specifying smart neighborhood design So one of the things that counselor emory would ask about is is what is walkable and you know in all of our development Throughout here, you'll One of our big goals was walkable And the idea there is that wherever development occurs The design should be so that neighbors really can know each other So walkable means walkable within the new space the new neighborhood As well as walkable to services and that might be a little different depending on what part of the city you're in It might be walkable to your nearby park or adjacent neighborhoods or You know in our more developed areas, it might be walkable to many different types of services and businesses that are nearby Um So within our process, um, we've had over three years of planning commission meetings a significant committee input Specifically working off of the findings of the interim zoning committees We then commissioned a study on habitat blocks from arrowhood wood kind of building on the interim zoning committee recommendations We had two sets of public hearings receiving over 200 public comments As well as taking input from the standing committees and the public during our normal meetings. So This has been a long process with a lot of different input along the way so we are We've broken up the Kind of amendments just for discussion purposes into four different areas I'm going to start out with the environmental protection standard. It's something that we've presented to you on in the past So, you know, there's a little bit of foundation there in our discussion There are some zoning district amendments um Paul's going to help me with the more technical pieces of the master planning subdivision and PUD standards So you don't just hear me this whole time And then there's some standalone amendments that we just felt like we needed to highlight So they weren't kind of lost in the mix. So Starting with the environmental protection standards Can I just jump in briefly we're aware that the There's a lot of text. There's a lot of information on the presentation It will be provided to all counselors posted on the website tomorrow for everyone So don't feel you need to try to read every single word while Jessica is presenting Yes, good point. So it's it's word heavy. So someone looking at it Would be able to glean more information than the highlights that I'm going to point out along the way here. So We did have a detailed presentation back in april and a joint meeting with with all of you counselors. So There's a few changes since then but this the structure is mainly the same In that we have a a new structure for our environmental protection standards including reorganization and restructuring into chapter 12 And expanding to include new resources We have the the the resource itself listed in a column Showing the status so Quite a few of those are new Including regulating the 500 year floodplain for the first time Regulating steep slopes for the first time Um As well as habitat blocks and connectors So large areas of can particularly mostly forest We've had a few changes to Expand protections of our different natural resources including Larger buffers for our class one and two wetlands in certain districts Um And I think that's the general overview. We have quite a bit of mapping associated with all of these changes We have a map of current and proposed standards Comparison up there So for um Reference the kind of orange yellow color Is the the areas of land protected under our current regulations under chapters 10 and 12 The kind of cross hatch and black is our natural resource protection zone which Has very very little development allowed within it And then the blue areas would be the areas that would be newly protected by the land development regulations under the new chapter Or article 12 and that includes red rocks Why is red rocks blue? Yeah, I was thinking the same thing Red rocks is blue because it is largely forested the regulations say that For properties for city-owned properties that have a management plan That activities can be done that are consistent with the management plan So it includes it, but it encourages the city to have a management plan for areas which red rocks does So because you ask for numbers we have a lot of numbers here And we have presented Essentially this same chart to you back in april. So this isn't a totally new Format here. I'm not going to read all of them off, but I'm going to focus on kind of the lower end of that chart there so Restricted by articles 10 12 outside of areas in a form of conservation. So so this means that These are areas that are protected by the regulations But are not already conserved in some way such as public land private conservation or third party conservation So so there's no other Mechanism that's also protecting them. They're protected essentially solely by our regulations. So under our current regulations You know, we have some percentages there because they're a little bit easier than acres. So we have about 17 acres of land currently protected under our regulations and that would be expanded to 26 city-wide. So it's about 938 acres So then when we kind of bump further down the page and look at how that adds to the lands that have an additional type of protection Such as like I was saying public land private conserved or third party You get kind of a bigger picture of The lands that have various levels of protection in the city So, um, you know bumping up from 41 percent under our current rules to 51 percent of the total city 135 acres with And then because the southeast quadrant has been a big focus of discussion and questions We have that broken out as well. So about 70 percent of the southeast quadrant would have some kind of protection As well. So, you know, these are planning numbers, you know, there's at least Plus minus five percent here, you know, not all of these resources are perfectly mapped in existing mapping So this is to give kind of a general overview of of the context here So moving on to a little more detail Our habitat blocks are One of the the biggest changes here kind of adding the most To that to that chart those new protections And the habitat blocks what what it's doing you can see a map of in the green areas in the map there are the the habitat block areas So we commissioned a study by arrow would environmental to help us figure out where The the most the best habitat in the city would be generally focused on forest areas And they identified kind of a network of 26 areas and then we added Four connectors. So those are areas where there wasn't an already in existent River corridor or flood plain or some kind of connection Based on our other protection protected resources connecting those together Areas so we did find that there's some parcels in the city where these new habitat blocks Cover a very large percentage of the parcel. So we have provisions in there so that Any parcel that has more than 70 percent of it covered with with this resource would be allowed to Kind of cut into the habitat block to get back to having a developable portion of their land of 30 percent. So You know to make sure that we're we haven't taken Um more than 70 percent of any particular parcel But we have made some adjustments over multiple mapping exercises and discussions within the planning commission. Um, so the so that there's a total of 1,954 acres included in the habitat blocks In the proposed draft That has removed some portions of of what was in the original arrowwood assessment But there's 98 of what they recommended included in in the draft. So it's about 2 change from The original mapping and we do have a story map that it kind of goes through what those changes were and the recommendations and the reevaluation of arrowwood of our kind of initial changes But i'm gonna save that for if you really want to delve in you could also look at that story map on your own How do you want to handle that? We have supposedly An hour So, I mean they're moving along. So maybe it would be helpful to ask the question if it's right on the screen However, you'd like your let's go off on 17 tangents. However On what? 17 tangents. I mean, you know ask a question and Let's not have a build and build. Okay Okay, so then on this slide no tangent whatsoever habitat blocks. I've got a lot of questions So we've never had them before. Um, I'm concerned that there's not a lot of legal precedent for these Uh, we've been receiving correspondences from attorneys now two different landowners And I also was advised today that one of the concerns outlined by one of the letters has been resolved So i'm looking at a letter from uvm's dint's attorney about article 12.04 Which I was told today. This is dated from september 14th that we have corrected it Could you give me an idea of um, where Conversations stand in in resolving some of the concerns about habitat blocks and in that same vein are there Is there any precedent with neighboring communities that have used a similar methodology to the arrowwood report to take 20% of developable land of parcels or are we blazing a trail with this? Well, I guess let me let me answer the last question first. Um, I think the One thing to consider is that communities all around the state of ramon including ourselves Have for a long time had regulations that recognize natural resources. They might call them different things Some towns might call it a rural residential district Some towns might have conservation districts in our in our case in south burlington We've had for the last 15 years the natural resource protection district which encompasses A whole bunch of different resources. So from that perspective, I wouldn't I I would say this is not unique identifying the resource as habitat blocks is um A little bit more direct than some communities have been Historically where they've just said that's a rural district. So we'll make it one dwelling unit of every 25 acres or something like that Whereas in south burlington as jessica had indicated hiring arrowwood environmental to pick up from the work that the agency of natural resources Uh, natural resources atlas does to then make it more specific to south burlington Tried to tailor it to south burlington specific resources um In terms of responding to community concerns, I think jessica noted a couple of them One was is and was to Ensure that anyone who is any property that's over 70 resources Gets to bring that down to 70 percent There's also a couple of different methodologies to modify boundaries um, and so for either common sense or For a strategic reason. There's a couple of different ways that you can balance out a property or a habitat block um, the last thing that I would mention on this Is um And then my brain just completely escaped me Where does 70 percent come from? 70 percent comes from it was recommendation from our consultant. Um, it it's it's not a hard Exact number different communities to different things. It does come from research done by uh, a uh a planner And author and consultant by the name of rando errant who started it in pennsylvania and has done a bunch of research on What's called conservation subdivisions of different ways of how do you reallocate development from a From the entirety of a property to a smaller portion of a property It works in south burlington. Well, especially in the southeast quadrant um in the sense of The underlying zoning setting aside tdrs for a second is 1.2 dwelling units per acre If you were to take that for the entirety of the property and put it on 30 percent You get four units an acre, which is the scale of development of most south burlington neighborhoods So it works well in that sense that that's what On uh, the orchard's neighborhood is that's what Um chamberlain chamberlain neighborhood is it's what our southeast quadrant zoning Has espoused for the last 15 years to be the the net and so it works in that sense But there is a range that could have been chosen So last thing on this one. I just wanted to be clear that I don't support these habitat blocks I we don't want this to be a surprise when we come around. I do not support these habitat blocks I'm very concerned that we're picking a fight with the Largest landowner in the city of south burlington and the state's land grant institution the university of vermont And with the legal documents that we've been receiving from them I'd love more assurances and maybe you can offer that to me before we have to vote on this in january That we have resolved all of their concerns. I'm glad to hear that one of these has been corrected since the september 14th meeting But I am very concerned. This is setting us up for years and years of litigation that in the end We're going to lose and it's going to harden their position to not want to work with the city to then do with this property What might not be aligned with what our best interests are. I just think of the jam golf result So I just want that to be known. I have serious concerns about these habitat blocks and I'll leave it at that certainly and the the only other thing I would add then is that uh council We'll certainly have the opportunity to Have some dialogue with the uh city's legal council s e l To talk about issues like that Because there was a letter from an a from attorneys We felt that this may be a dialogue that you'd like to have in an executive session to discuss Some of these things but certainly And we have made some adjustments based on the initial the letter that I think you're referring to We've made multiple adjustments that have been included in the draft. So Okay Matt I have a series of questions that I'm not sure now is the appropriate time if there is time afterwards I can ask it then I also want to send it to you in writing because You deserve time to research them and look into them and I appreciate all the work you both have done Um Particularly Jessica who's a volunteer. I just want everyone to remember that she's a volunteer He works for for the city But but I would just ask this brief question before you continue your presentation Definitions mean stuff here riparian areas riparian corridors This was a big issue with when I was on the development review board regarding map seven and what we're calling these protected areas so when I when I recall The discussion and the lawyers talking about riparian areas What is that defined in the new ldr's or is riparian areas riparian corridors in your definition? So it might make sense to go back to the table So one thing that we have done is remove the reference to that map Because the map that it's actually referring to no longer actually exists within the comp plan. There isn't a direct link So we everything everything is in the ldr's is referring to the ldr's with specific recommend like specific Definitions so areas is gone replaced by corridors so what we have is river corridors and river corridors are a State defined and state mapped specific resource field delineated It can be field adjusted, but it is it's like flood plains in the there's In that case it's a federal source, but there's there's a map with a line That's defined by the state And that's what it is but But when it moves who determines where it moves to it doesn't move So this is so it's a state defined and maintained map source So if the state updates it in x period of years just like flood plains if every now and then fema come through then the map Then it would adjust with it automatically, but it's not something that is It in and of itself doesn't move it's through an action by the state to move the map lines um As opposed to something like wetlands where each individual property owner would have a wetlands consultant Come out and walk along and define the wetlands and they may move over time or they may have a new delineation done The river corridors are a Like a set zone. Is that the same with habitat connectors? They're not field delineated The habitat connectors are completely different. So the habitat connectors, there's only four of them and those are um Drawn on our map And then there's some provisions in there about Kind of adjusting them one way or the other on a property to make the connection and maintain the width of them But they could if if someone came forward to the drb, they could say You know the habitat connector map shows it right here, but you know, that's actually on top of my driveway and we want it It makes more sense to be shifted over a little bit. So there are um some provisions in there for kind of Maintaining the connection, but adjusting the location. It's not a hard line on a map. It's not a hard line on the map. Thank you Okay, we keep going then. Okay Um, okay, I think we might be done with this one So this is complicated. We don't need to go really into this. The idea is that if you have a parcel first you would Define your your hazards Your your level one resources And then you have kind of the the white area that would be left for kind of your development In the case where you would be applying a conservation pud You would have a larger percentage of the parcel that would be A natural resource or or a non developed area. So potentially so just kind of Working through now we're going to kind of get towards the the remainder of the parcel What happens in the areas that have not been defined? as one of the environmental protection areas It's fine with this map too. Yeah, go ahead the transition Areas I saw that in your in your maps that there were Or your terminology transition areas, could you explain what those are? In here or the next well, it's not and I was looking through your materials a couple weeks ago that are online and I saw Transition areas. I'll cover that when we get to subject. Okay. Yeah, so that's we're going to get to that Yeah, we're not there yet. Okay. Can I have a question about this slide? Sure um area excluded from density calculations that's in the That doesn't currently exist in the LDRs, right? Isn't the entire parcel included in the density calculations? Yes, yes and no So yes, um because most development in south brollington is a planning a development today And so you can use the entire area if somebody were to choose to have Uh just done a straight subdivision straight subdivisions is always based on the lot itself Most commonly in south brollington People have used puds or they have incorporated a portion of a wetland, but if somebody were to have said This lot is all wetlands. I'm selling that to the vermont land trust and then My remaining lots. I'm uh just creating a subdivision even today that would not have but you're generally correct So so our density is reduced by not including the areas that are excluded from development in the in the calculation No, the density is increased Isn't it? So it depends how the development occurs. Um, we're actually separating density from Some types of development and then paul's going to get into that in the in the puds. So some of the pud types Are based on the carrying capacity of the land Not a density in the traditional sense. So it's it's a little different Maybe they'll be answered that'll be answered later. I mean when they get there Okay, so some zoning district changes I think here it makes sense to go to the interactive map because it's it's hard to see Um what these changes are there's a few and we have this nice interactive map And you can just go down to the shelburn road one Okay, so the first is um Near shelburn road. Um, this is to adjust the zoning on two parcels to Follow the property line. So essentially, um You know the area that has the blue rectangle around it and the orange inside would become blue And the area that says the orange rectangle with the blue on the inside would become orange So it's it's really just like a little bit more of a technical Um adjustment of the property lines for reference. This is the davis studio property there So it's an oddity amongst all the rest of them where the line cuts partway through a property Well, those two Okay, the next one is um On heinsberg road i 89 area. So the gray area is currently industrial open space and the the Number of parcels on the west side of heinsberg road Um, we're proposing to rezone to residential seven neighborhood commercial Um, this was an area where it was identified in the comprehensive plan Um that the the underlying zoning there didn't really fit Kind of the vision Which showed more kind of green or um conservation type area On the west kind of moving through residential to some businesses along Um heinsberg road there So we've chosen kind of a middle density uh Kind of residential area that can have certain types of commercial in there As the zoning change Then the next one is so this is a zoom out of the southeast quadrant. There's a few things going on here The areas that are outlined in a green outline are Uh, we are proposing to become additions to the natural resource protection zones So there's a few of these where the habitat blocks kind of had jutted out a little bit beyond the nrp area And it seemed to make sense to kind of align those two boundaries Um In the kind of southwest corner, there's a few pieces there that are part of south village to Kind of align the nrp area with the um The plans that were approved for that area. So it's it's a little bit more of kind of adjusting The boundaries to match the reality And then we also have an area along the Great Swamp South of Nolan farm road here Where the area outlined in green Was identified as not being It's been it's separated from the public roads by a north south corridor of of river and wetlands That would need to be crossed to kind of access that area. So kind of the middle inaccessible or lesser accessible area We're proposing to expand the nrp With some additions of the village residential At the north and south where it is adjacent to the public roads I'm sorry paul. Can you just remind me? Oh, how many how many units per acre on a village residential? Uh, the village residential is up to eight units an acre And then if you're more than four acres, you'd be a traditional You'd be eligible to be a traditional neighborhood, which is also in that eight units an acre range. Thank you. Sorry Yeah, yeah, no problem And I think that was all of them So this mapping is available, um Publicly in the story map, which is linked to the presentation for more detailed viewing at your leisure I have a question about the the the rezoning of the i o 2 On hindsburg road. So what prompted that within the commission? How did they Achieve that decision? um The part of the reason it came up is that this is one of the areas that back in 2016 we had Talked about how, you know, the the existing zoning wasn't matching Kind of the landowners means as well as any particular other need of the city um The i o district industrial open space Uses quite a lot of land With kind of spread out buildings, you know, we we are retaining quite a bit of that as well Um But at that time our future land use map was changed in the comprehensive plan to have A residential piece As well as some additional or remaining commercial type Development so, you know, if you look at that comprehensive plan future land use map, you know We show those different land uses on there, which doesn't match industrial open space currently Picking up on that if i may So, uh, this actually will increase the housing stock capacity of southeast quadrant Do you have a rough estimate of how much additional housing this will this change will make we do the um The there's a couple of parcels in there. There's I think there's four parcels total. They're about 135 acres um A lot of the density as jesco is alluding to a minute ago Will come through choices that an applicant makes about designs of neighborhoods, but as a very rough number Uh, we're estimating somewhere between 300 and 500 homes could be in there I know that's a huge spread, but as an order of magnitude, it's a substantial neighborhood potential together with The uh, and we'll speak about this in a moment, but integrated civic spaces the habitat block Is accounted for in those numbers Right because you know, if you overlay the maps about 40 or So acres of that would also be a habitat block which would not be built on so that number Assumes that that habitat block was not built on um, so moving on then I think we are Paul's up all right So i'm going to speak uh briefly about um, the three sort of core tools being used in this aside from the environmental protection standards So master plan subdivisions and planned unit developments um This largely follows what was presented to the council Believe it or not about three weeks before the pandemic started if anybody has any recollection of a world before that Um vaguely remember sitting in a room with people nobody knew what a mask was it was a whole different universe anyway So um master plan we currently have master plans in our regulations today This is a rehabilitation a update Uh to those and a sort of an expansion of their purpose um The main all properties that would be having multiple phases or having a subdivision of four more acres would be subject to A master plan the purpose of a master plan is to look at the context of what's around it uh to look at compatibility within the uh the master plan area and to its adjacencies To look at connections and make sure that it's well connected to its adjacent properties And when I say connections, I mean street connections. I mean path connections I mean sidewalk connections, and I mean natural resource connections all the things that tie it to what goes next to it and it's about proper phasing and um Having an applicant present The order in which they would be going about doing things um often this does already take place today Which is good news. We have a lot of very smart and thoughtful developers in our communities In our community. Um, but this sets a bar for everybody Um, the big thing that is given to applicants in a master plan Is the development of view board has the authority to uh upon approval of a master plan vest All or part of their approval in the regulations in effect that they submitted their application in So that's that's a big piece. So what it means is that Uh, they they show the the master plan and then they know they have certainty to say These regulations that the city adopted for all the things that I provided sufficient information on I know for the next Six years and then renewable up to four more years That the city's rules won't change on it And so they can go through their individual phases of design Not being concerned that Um, you know, I thought I was going to be able to do a four-story building now I can only do a one-story building or Whatever it might be It's a drb authority because the, um Regulations Have certain minimums that need to be met But a lot of it also is are you prepared applicant to show enough information about your Uh concept of design To be able to say yes, we're satisfied with that at the board level Therefore this concept design carries through It's a um The whole point of of a master plan and of all this work is to Have a collaborative discussion with the development community There are things that you will see both in the master plan and and what's coming up next That um set a pretty high bar for the community for the community for developers to come up with well-designed neighborhoods This is a piece that is given to them of some level of certainty Which we've heard over and over again from the development community is a really paramount subject Oh, can I just ask in terms of that certainty? um, if the state were to increase the um You know energy requirements in the building requirements um Too much different than it is now far beyond our stretch goals would that Override this so that You know you your third phase of your development now needs to have um, I don't know ports for electric cars because That's what they want or um, you know this the legislature has deemed that or heat pumps versus You know fossil fuel Yeah, that that's a great example. So um, I'll answer two ways one the state's regulations are the state's regulations. We um if Separate from any city approvals if something requires a state approval like an act 250 Then they're fully subject to act 250 standards. So in your example if the Act 250 refers to state building codes and state building code says that um, all buildings must have an electric charger Then they would be subject to that regardless of what we do at the local level As I was saying the the the regulations Are intended to incentivize somebody to to give a lot of forethought to to a subject And so somebody could say On the on the subject of energy. I'm going to make this I'm going to meet the city's minimums The board as in their decision could say Very well, you'll meet the city's minimums in whatever rules are in place at that time But somebody might come forward and say, um, I've done a bunch of work and um, I'm going to do a lead platinum neighborhood of meeting the You know the federal rules for that and the board might say boy, you're really you're really hitting this out of the park You're exceeding what we do today We will accept lead platinum as what you're going to do throughout the Throughout the rules and so We're then testing you with that as a condition of your approval So it sort of incentivizes people to go upwards, but to answer your specific question States rules are the state's rules I guess I don't understand the incentivization I mean, is that like locally we would or is this the Belief of a builder that I need to start making net zero homes because That's what the community is asking for Well, it comes down to certainty again So, um, let me give a a non-energy example that might be a simple one. The city doesn't have A whole heck of a lot outside of the form-based code standards of construction materials in city center. We say that it needs to be Um, can't be stucco. We want it to be brick or metal or things like that um an applicant in their master plan could say as Say tillie drive has done Our plan is to have all the buildings that we build in our master plan be largely brick And we're willing to commit to that on day one so this the DRB would have the authority to say In so far as sort of consistency of design goes Um, you've shown us that your uh, approaches to have buildings that are predominantly brick Therefore, we are vesting you in these regulations as it relates to how the buildings relate to each other design wise if the city in Four or five years comes up with architectural design rules They would have been vested under having made a commitment earlier. Does that make sense? Yes, that was that's a way to incentivize us. So if we really want to go somewhere with You know increased energy efficiency if you have your master plan You got your master plan unless you want to Right, but if you just change it to make it more efficient, it's up to you But if you don't want to then you know Well, yes, but also the board could say if all you're committing to is to meet whatever the city's minimums are Then what then you are approved, but we're not vesting you in the rules This is this is a negotiation point for the DRB They can say if all you're saying that that you'll do is meet the city's minimums Then you are approved to meet the city's minimums at whatever time you submit your future applications But if you're willing to go to a higher bar today Then we would Authorize that higher bar and vest you in today's rules. Does that make sense the way i'm describing that? Well, I guess I understand that I just don't understand why someone might want to do that I guess I was curious about the fourth point And you use resources I assume like you use resource land if you could define that as well as what it means to provide an analysis Sure. So they're required to So there's a couple things one As part of the master plan, there is a required neighborhood meeting That invites people With I can't remember the exact distance, but it's more than just a butters to make sure that neighbors have had a chance to weigh in In terms of analysis of the context It means looking I believe it's a quarter mile out in all directions And identifying what those resources Um natural resources roadways paths connections are So that when you're submitting it and the boards the board oftentimes today looks at a plan Excuse me with just a an artificial boundary of a property line And it's up to the board to you know, do some homework and figure out what's next to it This is about looking Further out to to explain why did you Um Later on as you look at the master plan itself Why did you put the park space here? Why did you put a street connection there because this is what it's connecting to? Okay, so when I see resources, I think natural resources, but it could be a park it could be I see roadway. Yeah, I see paths What else could resources be Well in this case, I meant natural resources, but it could be It could be roadways neighborhoods themselves and then the character of those neighborhoods the scale of the neighborhood paths sidewalks parks and when we get into especially the traditional neighborhood there's There's discussion about as as you asked about earlier transitions about how do you how do you make an effective transition? that Connects neighborhoods rather than walls them off from one another and when you use connectors You didn't mean between habitat blocks. That's a connector for a sidewalk or for a road or for Or yeah, I'm using in this context. I'm using the word connectivity in all the ways that it could be meant So connections of streets connections of natural resources connections of habitat blocks connections of Parks and recreation paths all the things that make a parcel not just isolated From that which is around it and and for the natural resources Would they be using the city map of the habitat blocks as a reference point? The habitat blocks and the rest of the environmental protection standards. So as jessica was was alluding to a few minutes ago the the Habitat connectors. There's four of them that are that are drawn in there There's only four because when the planning commission looked closely at all these 26 different habitat blocks the vast majority of them were Linked to one another via water resource already And so by looking at that water resource, whether it's a stream or a wetland or or what have you and protecting those resources and the buffers there too That by itself is connecting habitat block one to habitat block eight so what you what you what you get is a web and the four That we're missing were ones where the habitat blocks are relatively close that in working with I need to stop doing that Working with folks like Jens Hilke to identify Where is there a possibility a strong possibility of a language of habitat But there isn't a water resource doing it today Okay, matt did you have a quick question? Yeah First of all as someone as a former dr. Beer Projects with master plans always are better projects The idea that the dr. B is the authority to invest those parts of the application well done Boy, I wish I had that authority when when we took on a number of projects because we got a lot of Trust us and the applicant looking at us going. How do we trust you? You could all change all seven You could be gone in the next year This makes a lot of sense giving the dr. B the authority to vest makes a lot of sense my question We currently have projects going going with master plans one very large project The o'brien project How would this would the dr. B? Would the dr. B we're talking about lot line adjustments with the phase three of the o'brien project would there be a Would the ability to for the dr. B to vest the master plan be be carry over In order for because they have an old master plan. They don't have a new master plan about existing master plan For existing master plans In order to take advantage of this they would need to submit all the materials of a of a proper master plan Meaning proper meaning the updated standards thereof I would say that most of the ones who've done master plans frankly have done 95 of that work So it may be a submittal matter The other thing I would say in sort of as a practical matter is that the the projects that have master plans The dr. B today has worked really hard as you're alluding to to help Create certainty through the tools that did exist even if they were sort of slightly messy and so For o'brien for instance there was a master plan and then a preliminary plat for the Buildings that are now beginning to be under review and in that preliminary plat the board tried to give some Some broad guidance for when they come into final It's not formally vesting, but it was giving approvals for certain things I think that the major projects that have master plans today Likely won't need to come in for a major change But but you get my question though, there's a lot line adjustment on something that they haven't even filed sketch for yet Are they are they doing it under the old rules or the new rules? Uh, they would If it's a lot line adjust if if it was something small then it's not going to be triggering a brand new master plan It's just triggering an adjustment to a final plat if they were to come back in and say Now we're really changing our vision then that would trigger a new master plan I'll give an example of that um back just before I had started Uh many eons ago um feral street, uh all the housing that's there was actually originally all approved to be commercial Over time that was converted over to being Eastwood one eastwood two cathedral square That would have triggered a master plan change at some point because it was literally All commercial and then became 90 percent residential. That's a substantially different neighborhood But smaller changes wouldn't just trigger a master plan I'm what I'm getting at is is the master plan that was passed prior to these regulations taking effect Would that hold for Permitting for for parts of that master plan that haven't even gone through sketch yet If the zoning has changed through an area that there's a master plan they've they've they've said we're going to put Commercial here we're going to put residential here. We've changed the zoning since that master plan was set Now are they vested under the old master plan or the or they have to file Or they're not and essentially even though they filed a master plan, but they haven't Gone through preliminary plot yet Gone through that process yet. What standard do they have to follow? I understand a question. Um, I believe math that All of the master plans that we have approved in the city have at least a preliminary plat Okay, um in place and so while I understand your question I don't know that it needs to be directly answered because it's my I don't think it I think it's not a relevant point But it's not a relevant I don't think it has moved the word I'm looking for. Thank you. Thank you, but I will double check that because I think it's an important question for the future Hey, can I just ask you we're we're running over which is fine because there's some good questions How many more slides do you have? 58 And I was curious about the transition Pardon me. We have more. Okay. And the transition areas too since we're okay. We'll keep going We'll be well. All right. Let's go on to subdivisions. Okay Your point chair really can we continue this at the next meeting as well? I have a lot of questions about conservation beauty. So I just would like to keep the agenda open for a continued discussion on this before the january Well, we're scheduled to have the conversation and that's why we started it early today Knowing that we couldn't get it all done in one I just don't want to be on a midnight. I'm just suggesting that we can continue this if paul and jesson Well, let's let them make that let's let them go a little bit farther. Can can I Make one point that I should have made it as a table setting So one of the things that would be helpful for us in tonight's conversation Is to for some guidance about what you would like to talk about on the 20th Whether that's a portion of this presentation or a specific other content area So guidance on that so we can be prepared for effective conversation that night too would also be helpful Okay So and to your point about something like conservation beauties if the council Has a sense tonight that that's a longer discussion then we'll just give the overview tonight and you can Save the questions for that night. Okay. Why don't you get the overview? I'd recommend getting through at least the overview presentation tonight so that you've got All of it in mind for your next meeting Okay Oh, I'm sorry, but would it be helpful? Uh, because you're asking questions and you're you're doing great responding to our questions But there's some things that we want some at least I want specific answers It's going to take a little bit more than research and you might not be able to recall and we have a limited amount of time Would it be helpful if we submitted it to you that way we could get it back all in public way And that way maybe I don't have any questions the next time we meet or maybe I have very Want to drill down on specific issues. I think that might be helpful for me I don't know if it's helpful for us the council or helpful for staff, but If I may helpful for me I'm fine with that, but I just don't want to blindside you with my serious concerns that are going to prevent me from voting for Either this as a bundle or if we take it up as pieces So I'm fine with that approach councillor coda, but I I want the public to know my concerns because they have a right to Know that so as long as I can frame my other Conservation pudies concerns tonight so that we can either bring it back for further discussion at the 20th Or I like councillor coda's a suggestion where I can send this in advance We can have you respond in written form I just want the public to know my concerns because they have a right to frame the Issues to poll in questions. They will be public And then he can address them Right Okay, uh subdivisions. So, uh, this is a little bit drier than some of the other pieces. This is um separating out subdivisions from puds which today it's all sort of intermixed um They uh, it lays out a process It places hazards and habitat blocks in their own lots Whether this is regardless of whether ultimately you'll become a pud or subdivision This is just this just the division of land Uh establishes block standards that are essentially based on the seq standards That would apply. Um, again regardless of whether you're a pud or not Um requires regular shaping of lots Um so that you get these sort of funky weird things that are just trying to avoid our our regulations The most significant new thing in here and this is sort of going back to Um history in south berlington is to require that a minimum of 10 of developable land be dedicated to civic spaces Civic spaces is a new term that we're using to mean um Spaces that are designed for active public use as opposed to the word open space which might be a farm It might be a forest. This is intended to be a gathering place for people. There's lots of different kinds But that's the simplest way to describe that so paul. We've got to eliminate You know if you drive through butler farms, there's a couple lots That are not developed. They're mode. I mean there's one in Your your place too. That's just I mean they couldn't build there. I guess because there's a little wetland or something But it's not a public place per se. I don't know who moves them That wouldn't count for this civic space the civic spaces are very clearly defined as to what they are What the function is, you know, whether there's benches and the size and okay, and so there's there's standards But the plan might eliminate having those lots. I mean you just move the houses You share some of that ravine. I guess what I would say about a place like butler farms is Had and not to pick on anybody who's involved with designing it or anybody who lives there today But had those lots been more thoughtfully designed as to where they were And let's say they'd been at the corner of two streets And then instead of being just sort of this piece of land that nobody knows who it owns It was an active use little park at a couple of key corners Those could have been real neighborhood amenities. Okay, and that's what you're kind of aiming at for this 10% Correct. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's exactly The drawings on the right are just showing some some Research that the planning commission had done around block sizes This was measuring all sorts of different block sizes all around south burlington to show that What was being proposed matches South Burlington and you know pretty traditional neighborhood block size I'm just going to skip by the slides very quickly except to make reference to as councilor really indicated on the right hand side there That's a little diagram of how One could design civic spaces in a thoughtful manner And that comes most specifically into the traditional neighborhood, but it really applies to all of the All the types of subdivision Um, okay traditional neighborhood. So jessica, I believe presented on this in april to the commission council The focus of a traditional neighborhood is to create a strong sense of neighborhood a sense of place for the people who live there It has a center is focused on connections both in terms of natural resources and Um and people it has in this in the in the drawing that I'm showing there But but also built into the regulation a focus on civic space a place in the middle of the neighborhood where people can really convene Um, it enables a mix of uses to take place as long as it's of a of a certain size And in exchange for all these things um, what is done on the development side is that uh The regulations, um incurred smaller lots Density to councillor coda's question from before is done in a completely different manner rather than density being a question of units per acre Density is based on each building type so so thinking of The way that villages were built historically Uh throughout new england where there might be a single family home next to a duplex And then the building next to it was once a victorian house But now is a fourplex and they're all on essentially the same size lot But they're of the same scale and they fit together That's what the traditional neighborhood is trying to do And so you can have a single family home on a lot of five to ten thousand square feet You can also have a duplex on a lot of five to ten thousand square feet um There are some design standards that come with it in order to Achieve some of these things so as you get down to a smaller lot Your ability to have let's say a front facing garage Might be a little bit trickier. So if you're really on a five thousand square foot lot you may be um Doing an alley like in south village But that's a developer's choice to come up with a design that works for them In the traditional neighborhood, there's a minimum of three different types of housing that need to be integrated Um, and so that assures that it's not all single family homes built are all multiplexes built The traditional neighborhood also and this is to counselor emory's question Focuses heavily on transitions And so there's a center of a neighborhood, especially a large one that where it's intended to be a little bit more intense and then there are standards for the Applicant to review to to consider and then the board to review as to what's happening Adjacent on the next property over so in some cases what's happening on the next property over is a natural resource That's um in which case That would be a good place to be mindful of Where you're putting your natural resources and back to this slide here the top right drawing of a Civic space you might choose to attach your civic space to that natural resource so that it Has an active use part and then it blends into the natural area next to it So the feeling becomes a larger one overall and that's um What they did in this example in the top right you see the green that's up against the natural resources Another property might be very intense development next to it in that case you might want to transition downwards To where most of what you're doing might be single in two family homes but it might make sense to do a multiplex or town homes next to the three or four story buildings so that you're stepping downwards into your neighborhood a third one might be single family homes on large lots the Applicant can actually apply. I gave the example of five to ten thousand square foot lots If what's next to them is large lots With single family homes the board actually has authority to grant larger lots To give a transition upward Or downward, I guess towards those neighborhoods. So it's never a jarring one up against the other And there's inclusionary zoning potentially in there too Correct So across the board and i'll get to that in the standalone amendments But the planning commission has proposed to expand inclusionary zoning citywide So all All neighborhoods involving 12 or more housing units would be required to have an affordability component Regardless Um, I'm going to just keep pushing through here. Please do. Yeah, keep going Uh conservation pudes So the conservation pud has a different starting purpose. It's starting purpose is land conservation first and foremost so Its arrangement is that a minimum of 70 percent of the parcel is when somebody is a is a conservation beauty Would be conserved. It can be more than that if the applicant chooses It includes all hazards All level one resources and anything in the southeast quadrant that's in the natural resource protection district Similar to the traditional neighborhood, there is land allocation, but the land allocation is mostly resources Residential is a component of it and then there's a small civic space requirement similar to the other ones In this case densities calculated differently. So density in a conservation pud is the Is the acreage Of the entirety of the parcel less hazards. So that is a change. Uh, council of coda um Based on the underlying zoning Reallocated to the 30 percent. So if you had a 10 acre parcel and it was four units an acre That would conceivably be 40 dwelling units. This would reallocate the 40 dwelling units to The three acres That's a mathematical number. I understand as the density goes up Just like under today's rules in practice that may not be fully achievable So a better example might be somewhere like the r2 district at two units an acre two units an acre times 10 is 20 20 on the three acres The commission is aware that it will lead to Compact development in those areas However What is being returned to the community is 70 percent conservation In the southeast quadrant, um The commission had to figure out how to tie in the tdr program and how to tie in um the Uh inclusionary standards and so The in order to make to to make the tdr program work They capped the net density in that 30 percent buildable at six units an acre So you can buy tdrs Depending on the property depending on the amount of natural resources that exist But you can't overload the property so that you wind up with You know, uh, something that's completely out of character of the southeast quadrant. Sure Tdrs can be used Um under in in the draft that is in front of you right now Um in any of the receiving zones So, uh, the same zoning districts it can be today If it's below the threshold of a of a pud So below four acres they can also be used Uh either in a conservation pud up to the six units an acre Or in a traditional neighborhood Uh, though I said density is not calculated. Um based on units an acre if you're choosing to go above 1.2 You would buy the tdrs up to whatever the neighborhood design allows Not only within the seq For now Yes, there are two Aren't you discussing or will you be discussing in the future expanding that So there are two expansions outside the seq right now One that you adopted last year which was to allow for some additional lot coverage along shelbert road And one in this draft When I described this, um Six units an acre that's also included in the R1 and r2 pud districts So it's allowing places like along allen road or um There's a portion of swiss street and in theory old farm road But it's already been approved for development that would allow tdrs in this draft It's the top of the commission's work list for the remainder of this fiscal year to identify additional receiving areas Yes, so I really appreciate this time and I I know that I haven't vote Voice these concerns prior to uh this meeting so so forcefully But it's because I I I recall that meeting two weeks before the pandemic started and I remember you presenting those puds And I remember very clearly throughout the process that there were four and it was always going to be sort of an option for Landowners, but I understand now that this is more Mandatory that this is the only conservant only pud available to seq landowners or that this is the by de facto standard for lands in that part of town My my fundamental concern is that this council has committed to this is my long question and then i'm done I promise um that this council is committed to whatever the vermont climate council comes out with from the global warming solutions Act their report just came out a couple of uh a week or so ago And one very important passage from page 29 of their report which we are committed to to following Which was not information that I don't think the planning commission had when they drafted these conservation priorities Is that this is quoting from the report lack of infrastructure chiefly community wastewater and waste systems which the southeast quadrant has Okay, many parts of vermont do not Makes compact settlement a challenge thereby causing housing development to follow the path of lease resistance Which is dispersed single-family home development on large lots along rural roads This is emphasized this de facto development pattern will only Exasperate energy use patterns that will make achievement of many of the goals of the objectives of the gwsa a challenge And underscored the need to create an effective land use planning and regulation rubric that can achieve housing development and accessibility compact settlement smart growth and just transitions policy imperatives My concern is that we are going to be working against what the gwsa is putting forward that we need to foster here in the state So my question is say this does get passed by a majority of counselors The conservation pud puts the easement to the city I'm guessing not a third party I'd like clarification on that and then my my second part of that question is if a new set of counsel or a new A state regulation a statewide zoning that looks at available wastewater and wants to overrule A unit which I believe the state can do what the state wants to do can overrule municipal constraints such as conservation pud Is restricting housing on land that is arable and near sewer and so on What would it look like three years from now if these regulations passed five years from now If there was land that was forced into this conservation pud and that was then Changed the rules changed with those landowners Whoever they are at that time have the right to get those That that right to the 70% of the land that we have chosen to force them to conserve back That's my big question and where I have I wanted this tonight so that you all could hear my serious concerns Because I'm not ready to support these land development regulations for the habitat block concerns raised earlier in these conservation puds So if we don't have time to answer tonight I still feel like I've done justice to my constituents and clarifying these concerns as to why as of right now I'm not going to be supporting these these did land development regulations with that. I'll be quiet. I swear And you know, I'm not going to do a full answer because some of that was legal but um You know, I think the point that's up here about the minimum plan density for units per acre Really was what kind of balanced the requirement for a lot of us commissioners in that In the areas that are being developed Um, we are getting an actual neighborhood with an average of four units per acre. So um in the areas where these happen um You know, we're really efficiently using the land that is developed by transferring The development that would have happened in that conservation into the neighborhood area And and essentially ensuring that we're getting that level of development in any area that someone's choosing to develop so um What it doesn't do is require A development for the whole 30 percent that's left someone could say um I really only want to develop a very small portion of my land At this time And what they do need to do is for whatever portion of land that they're developing They need to develop in this efficient manner With the planned density of four units per acre Even if they're choosing to reserve some of that development for the future, they need to at least show a plan that says Um, we could develop At the four units per acre. So so instead of getting that kind of spread out large Lot development that isn't using our our infrastructure very efficiently We are setting aside some additional open space But we're retaining kind of that Development potential on the areas of land that we are In some people's words giving up to development. So, you know, the footprint of land that's developed is Developed efficiently kind of in exchange for um, you know, reserving You know, we're conserving some additional space. So it's it's really both. So you're really getting the neighborhood As well as the open space and you know, we have a map I think it actually might be on the next slide here that shows. Um, it's not all of the southeast quadrant where These conservation PUDs are required um It's only portions of the southeast quadrant the more rural existing zoning districts so within the the village Village area it was it's still choice As well as other parts of the city. So it's it's only Some of our most rural zoning districts where that that requirement would be in place And I think I'm going to take the opening that was given to us The other half of your question on the legal items I think would be a good one for us to not give an off the cuff answer to but Come back with a thoughtful answer to Um, one last thing I just wanted to Make note of quickly, uh, because they they look slightly different in the in the style of the design but intentionally this, um Theoretical parcel and this parcel are the exact same parcel So it's showing how The same exact land with the exact same circumstances around it Could function as a TND or could function as a conservation PUD This was a parcel selected by the consultant. Uh, it is an actual parcel in South Burlington, but it's not intended to imply anything to anyone Uh, it does happen to be in one of the zoning districts that allows either or but it's really just illustrative But I think you just quickly flip back to the other. Oh, okay Yeah, so it's so it's interesting that both are responsive to their context But in different ways and can show How to expand resources how to expand housing and how these things are both community goods I suspect some of the saved property here addresses other issues from the climate report To take one statement There's the whole thing page 219 is more so well Okay, well we're gonna keep going here This is this is Matt. Do you have a quick question? I just think we've we've gotten a lot of feedback I'm sure you have as well about these mandatory minimums on the conservation PUD And I think of it in a very simple way and I'd like you to correct me if my thinking is wrong um A 10 acre lot Where it's a conservation PUD it's been designated by the LDRs as a conservation PUD 70 percent seven acres Has to be kept in conservation Three acres can be developed at four units per acre. That's 12 units that can be developed If a rich person says I don't want 12 acres. I want one big mansion Can't do it correct. Well, that's actually not true. So we didn't get into the carve out option. So essentially to address that kind of concern Um, a landowner can do essentially whatever they want. Um, well, that's I shouldn't say that so so there's We'll allow a landowner to use a carve out option the carve out is to take up to two acres of the property And and do what you're saying maybe maybe split it up into three lots for their children put one large Thing there, but it has to be contained to that carve out area um To give more flexibility essentially so Before triggering a PUD where you have to get into the whole PUD and the minimum density and everything you know, there's this option of You know containing what you're doing to the two acres and not triggering the whole process So so that that is illustrative of saying even though we're saying we're giving to give you a bonus We're gonna allow you to go four units per acre on a conservation PUD The landowner doesn't have to build Four units per acre right, so there's there's really um Three ways that somebody who didn't want to do all the development could do it one is as jessica's saying Let's say you had a 10 acre parcel If you would like to take up to two acres of that and not trigger a conservation PUD not trigger any requirement to conserve any of it You can you can do that and then you're just under the subdivision regulations no minimum density Do as you choose Right, so you're only doing the two acres nothing else is happening with the rest of the parcel that's been designated as a conservation PUD area In a parcel that would otherwise have triggered a conservation PUD It's a carve out from the conservation PUD. You don't need to do a conservation. That's option one yes, it's It's one carve out of two acres Of up to two acres so it can't be one carve out and then two years later you carve out another two acres It's it's a one-time thing The second option of somebody who chose to do who wanted to do less Is they could choose to conserve more of the land so somebody could say I have um 10 acres. I'm conserving nine and a half of those acres And i'm building two homes and those two homes will get to enjoy nine and a half acres of Conserved land around them what they're committing to in that case is conserving the bulk of the land the third option as Jessica alluded to is um It's a planned minimum density of four units an acre So you would need to demonstrate in a master plan. Let's say you've got your 10 acres and you've got three acres left over You'd have to show How you can build your 12 units Let's say phase one is only two homes unless you take the two acre carve out Correct. Yep. Yep. So I was just moving on to if you chose to go into the conservation beauty You could choose to have a multi-phase project Phase one you build two three four homes whatever And then future phases if you choose to do it you can and if you choose to let it expire you do that too And then somebody else can pick it up In 10 years time if they want under whatever rules are in place at that time So those are the three ways that somebody who wanted to to do less than the minimum could Thank you All right, what's up on the screen now? Is a simplified map showing three colors This is the draft PUD applicability So the green are areas that would be if you have four acres in the Seq neighborhood residential neighborhood residential transition or neighborhood residential north Must be a PUD must be a conservation PUD. So that's your mandatory area The orange represents areas that could be if you have four acres in in those districts Either a conservation PUD or a traditional neighborhood And the blue are areas that your choice would be to be a traditional neighborhood The little dots that are on top of this are Not an exhaustive list, but it is our best Quick review of all of the parcels that would actually fall into this So, you know, you see a huge amount of the cities in the blue. That's because that's our our four neighborhood There are one two three four Five or six dots of properties that would actually be um Potentially a traditional neighborhood I'm not being where there's more than four acres of developable land on that a map parcel Um, this as with all the other maps if you click on this It's a it's an it's a link to an interactive map so you can zoom right in on them change the background, etc um What did I want to mention here other than that carve out? um We talked about The uh, so a couple of very minor little quick things Um, the current zoning has sort of this odd quirk where In the r1 and r2 districts if you have five acres And you're a PUD but a PUD doesn't really have any standards with it. You're granted A density bonus that gets replaced with how the traditional neighborhood works here where it's a it's additional density but based on building type rather than just being Granted um, and then in the southeast quadrant um Many parcels are below this four acre threshold of a Of a PUD the commission wanted to make sure that if somebody somebody who owned a 3.9 acre parcel Didn't build more homes Than somebody who had a 4.0 acre parcel and were required to be a conservation PUD as such They have adjusted the amount of TDRs that can come into the smaller properties Down to a maximum of 1.8 units per acre That is a little bit of a drop from what is today theoretically able to be four However, our analysis of it is that most of these properties are parcels where there's a house on two and a half or three acres and What we have seen as development in the last 15 years is Nothing anywhere near four units an acre somebody is choosing to build an additional house on it because these are largely, you know Pseudo neighborhoods that already exist places like Meadowwood Drive and Highland Terrace and so While conceptually it's four units an acre in practice. It's nowhere Nowhere near that Uh, this is the most text heavy slide I promise this is um Trying to do a summary based on what counselor really was asking for us of what's actually changing in the development potential So we identified 22 parcels that would be required to be a conservation PUD um Of those total Approximately 460 acres in the southeast quadrant um Under the conservation PUD that would mean that Uh 139 of those acres would be able to be built on And 324 would need to be conserved Had there been no conservation PUD and we just stuck to the rest of the regulations it would have been 265 acres were undevelopable because they're either wetlands or natural resource protection district or it's permanently conserved And 198 would be developable. So it's it's a difference of about 60 acres worth of additional conservation and this was um, the commission's debate about how to address Other natural resources that there was a lot of advocacy for in the community grasslands ag soils things like that and by um, the way that they chose to do it was rather than to regulate additional resources Make for this mandatory PUD to Be context sensitive to each individual resource. The result is about 60 acres of difference in development potential Um, we tried to look at what this means in terms of number of homes on putting all sorts of asterisks is all over the place with this um in theory The current regulations in the southeast quadrant on the on these 22 acres would allow for a little under 1200 units um, I say that in theory because We've never seen a development that hits its maximum potential Invariably there are wetlands. There are design considerations um Jessica spoke to Right sizing neighborhoods in accordance to the resources One of the challenges of our current rules is they say x number of units in acre Regardless of the resources. So if you have 10 acres and nine of them are wetlands in theory You can build in a You know in a our four district 40 units on one acre, but in practice you can't do anything close to that So I give that as a number the proposed regulations We came up with about 834 which is mathematically a Drop but those 834 are on land that is actually buildable So I don't know that it's even that that the difference is as much as what it shows there Can I just just to show your math here the 834 is that assuming The rezoning of the hill farm and 500 homes. That's only the southeast quadrant Not the hill farm. Okay. So hill farm. We don't it's not in part of the seco farms Right, that's at the bottom of the screen there. So the hill farm I put in there industrial open space change That's okay. So 834 does not include the change in zoning to hill farm because it's not in the seco correct Yeah, no, it was part of interim zoning, but not part of it. It's yeah So it's calculated at the bottom of the chart separately. Yeah, it's it's a little bit confusing because it is in the seco As far as the set the comprehensive plan divides the city into four groups, but it's not part of the seco zoning district So It's industrial open space. It's not So the numbers up above do not include the hill farm property the number at the bottom there My 300 to 500 homes. That's The new in theory it's one home every three acres today could be built in the industrial open space district In practice as I said, it's not the highest and best used because if you could build a Something that wasn't residential rather than a house on three acres. You wouldn't do that So Megan and pal Jessica is the number that I've heard of 1400 homes that are currently in the pipeline. Is that accurate? Uh, I think it's about 1200 city-wide About 1200 city-wide. So then we add these numbers on to that right, you know 1100 to And this is only the seco whereas I know that there are any develop Development opportunities outside of the seco Um, so I guess I should note that of the 1200 I I broke this down a few months ago for some folks The vast majority of that is either O'Brien area or city center Or some in quarry hill road. There is obviously A number in the southeast quadrant in other places, but that sounds like a really big That's probably about right. Um, but you know, just as a matter of scale There's a building that's been approved behind Healthy living that has 131 homes in that one building. So there's 10 percent or 7 percent of the total that would go into one building So something to make note on these numbers specific to that is that um The number of homes in the southeast quadrant would not be going up There's no there's no new TDRs being created and the TDR program is still in place. So um You know in order to kind of have these denser Like in the village area like paul was saying you would need to buy TDRs to You know Get above that base density and We're not creating new TDR. So So as all this shakes out, there's there's not More development in the southeast quadrant than under existing But it's rearranged into more compact neighborhoods In order to have additional open space. So that's the idea of balancing Kind of efficient neighborhoods and more open space and and not winding up with more development And you know, I was going to mention it later But I mean our our plan like we alluded to is to continue to work on the TDR program and additional receiving areas and other parts of the city that might make sense as well as the neighborhood commercial Additional pu d type that's not included here So, you know a lot of these blue areas and other parts of the city Um, you know, I think our goal is to have an additional pu d type the neighborhood commercial type that would be A choice in in those areas. So You know, that's the piece that that we don't have in front of you today because we're not finished with it And just one last quick thing on this. Um, we talked about the southeast quadrant and and the term mandatory I think it's it's important to note. I think um For everyone that Uh, the village residential and the village commercial areas have the option of being a traditional neighborhood or a conservation pu d And that's all the areas in orange here. So just to be it's not the entire sq Either way Okay, we're almost done with our slides. Good because we're an hour over This is my last one very quickly. Um, I can go into as much details any counselor would like Here is a series of standalone amendments that are not directly tied to the puds solar ready roofs For new commercial buildings and acts this option under the commercial building energy code to design a solar ready zone We've already talked about expansion of include of inclusionary affordable housing Residential design would set a base of some some basic residential design features that currently exist in southeast quadrant to be city wide The nrp district It tightens up the language a little bit to make sure that the housing that does occur there is in Smaller areas or small ish areas not necessarily smaller than today, but there's some there's some lack of clarity in there today accessory dwelling units matching to the new state law that was passed last year expanding opportunities for accessory dwelling units accessory structures This is separate from dwelling units Opens up a little bit more allowance. Um, right now those who have small homes are disproportionately, um restricted because the size of your Uh, accessory structures like a shed is a percentage of the size of your house so the smaller your house the less of a Of a shed that you're allowed to have this tries to straighten that out a little bit more And a whole series of small amendments of just being tidying up the regulations last slide Oh, yeah, okay, I'll So Monica pointed out it's actually not I just said that we weren't expanding the number of tdr's But that's actually not true. I did show some areas where we're expanding the nrp in a few spots. So Um In some of those locations it would increase the number of tdr's I think except in south village where they've already used those areas Um Yes south village used the entirety of their density under the old old rules. So so not all of the areas where we expanded the nrp Did it create more tdr's? Okay, so as a wrap up here, so we um We did achieve a unanimous vote to bring this forward to you as a package And I think the fact that it was a package is a big part of that um We So not everyone agrees on on each individual issue, you know, and I think we're hearing the same from counselors You know, you talk about one issue that you're maybe uncomfortable with and we we really did the same thing. So um As individuals I asked all of the commissioners to identify areas That influenced their support of the draft, you know, and that was both for for and against just their comfort level and um Knowing that each of us had to set aside items that we were particularly passionate about to get to you know, one cohesive package here So as part of that I did ask commissioners um To kind of identify areas and we had a big discussion about this and As part of bringing this forward, um You know, I agreed that I would talk through some of the issues where we did have either split votes Or a lot of discussion and not everyone was comfortable. So um, you know, I'm gonna kind of list off some of these Items here where you know, we we weren't um necessarily completely unanimous in the item, but um, You know, I think some people in balance were comfortable because different items were balancing each other. So um, some commissioners wanted the individual protection of agriculture soils and grasslands While others felt that the chapter 12 covered the most highly prioritized resources And that the expansions of the nrp and the conservation puds Would protect protect some of these other resources and open spaces that weren't individually protected in chapter 12 Um by requiring conservation puds in the more rural areas of the city and expanding the nrp Some of these other resources Would be conserved So as a compromise the areas for development in the conservation pud Have a minimum density requirement to efficiently use the land and the city resources With some of the exceptions that we noted such as the carve out which was a big point of discussion So the conservation puds In higher density areas would only apply when resources on the property Make up over 50 percent of the property. So on that map you saw there were some blue areas where Um, a conservation pud wouldn't be necessarily a choice until you had multiple resources on the property And some felt that the conservation pud should be applicable everywhere So Others felt like the 70 percent number was maybe not the right number. So that number Was a debate And some of the habitat block adjustments were not all unanimous The zoning changes to expand the nrp near nolan farm road And the change in zoning to the r7 in the industrial open space were not unanimous Um, the wetland standards we adjusted and had significant debate Some felt we should really match the state regulations And that we were being too strict and others wanted expanded buffers beyond what we even put forward. So expanding some buffers on wetlands As well as removing the class three very small wetlands were some of those those um, you know debates and compromises we made Um, and I think, you know, there were a few commissioners that, you know Expressed it with the word of like more time and more vetting and more images But you know, I think that that's always the case when I with our review So, you know, a lot of these issues are related. Um, and I think You know, some of us may have felt differently about the whole if some of these items are pulled out. So I think, um, you know, everything works together And, you know, some of these different things we felt like we're balancing each other Um, so I think that's something to keep in mind as we're kind of talking through individual items And, you know, I'm really just very proud to present That we were able to come together with so many varied opinions along the way Um, we also have as part of bringing this package to Forward, um, we've identified specific items in our 2022 work plan Um, that commissioners felt were very important to kind of compliment what we've brought forward now with Our ongoing future work. I mentioned a few of those Uh, one is the tdr program update, you know, really looking at additional receiving areas additional pud types including the ncd And, you know, just general other tools to incentivize development and redevelopment in the built areas and areas where we We know that we do want development As well as, um, there were items from the public comment and commissioner comments that we've identified to Kind of work on more as part of a future round And one of those was the potential to change the name of the document to the land use regulations To really show that we're as a community not just only focused on development, but we're regulating Kind of the the use and the layout of our open spaces Both resources and parkland as well. So, you know be a little more, um, specific to what we're doing in the document, so I think that's the overview there Well, I I want to commend your work and compliment the entire Commission and the staff that really put this together. It's very complex. It's covers an enormous amount of Information I appreciate that we have Some differences of opinion on the council. You surely had them on the commission But the bottom line was you looked as a group at the the whole And felt that for the most part this was a real improvement. And so I have to say I hope the council can Um, approach this in a similar manner But thank you very very much. It was countless countless hours and You're a wonderful reflection of a city that cares and has Residents who go the extra mile when they're asked to do something this hard. So thank you very very much And you're very welcome to work through difficult questions with passionate opinions Right. Really you deserve I second Helen's comment I feel obligated not a question, but a statement. I just want to say I do like some things in this So I hope I didn't come across as too negative I just wanted you to hear my where my concerns and my hang-ups are so it doesn't surprise you But I like the 500 year flood plan planning and definitely the hill farm as well as a lot of those things at the end Those individual bullets so great work. Thanks for all your volunteer hours Okay, thank you very much. Yeah Yeah, and I mean it's it's really all the commissioners and oh absolutely. Oh In the room here. Have you got a couple? Yeah, so much time drafting items. Oh, yeah For sure. So thank you Can we take like a five minute break? And then we'll move on to the next easy topic a budget So thank you And city council meeting of December 6th and we'll take up Item 10 which is our proposed f y 23 budget with a presentation by our city manager And deputy city manager, I suspect and I just want to say before you start that I Very much appreciated how you laid this out. I thought it was really clear and easy to follow and Clearly a lot of work. So thank you So budgets Very exciting So I'm going to be talking through the presentation tonight, but please know that All of the work behind it is really Martha Machar's work Putting together the budget And I'm doing this tonight because Andrew didn't put together this presentation So I thought it was unfair for me to ask him to there then present it But he will be answering questions During the process. I also want to thank the department heads This is really while I have the privilege of presenting this to you in the community This is really the product of a lot of hours of department head leadership team Effort to bring forward a budget that we hope meets your goals We presented I presented this budget to the at an all staff meeting on Friday And it was fairly well received by them as well. So tonight I'm going to spend Hopefully just 10 minutes walking you through the overall the big picture of the comprehensive budget And then tonight you'll hear from Recreation and parks admin and the library as well. So lots of fun things Finally, I do just want to acknowledge that the and some of you have heard me say this before the three most important things councils do Are decide what to do with other people's money what you're starting to take up right now Tell people what to do with their land what you just spent two hours talking about So you're hitting two out of the three in one night, which is really impressive higher manager We don't need to do it again You're good So this is what we're going to talk about tonight. I do want to note that Link to your agenda is this presentation And then we've also included the link to the website where all of the budget materials Thanks to martha and her team are saved in detail At the end of this presentation, we will be asking you to set a public hearing date of this for this budget, which is required per our regulatory requirements So just by a way of reminder on september 20th You get set for us a number of high level council goals You did not take a vote, but you had a discussion So you directed us to maintain current levels of service stay Around under a 3% tax rate increase although again no vote To fund municipal operations Ensure that there's a sustainable level of fund balance for future elected officials And maintain our investment in capital projects that you specifically called out Striping and paving So we made some assumptions to build this budget and I wanted to call those out to be very clear We are assuming in this budget grand list growth of 1.4 percent. That's based on Martha lion's review of the permits permits that are currently in progress in planning and zoning and building We are making the assumption that the local options tax will rebound to pre-pandemic levels and I'll speak a little more about that in a minute We are assuming a cola of 3.5 percent Which is high but not actually as high as it's been month to month in recent months We are All staff all staff Not the what We are seeing a health insurance increase of 8% with other insurance Increasing at 15.5, which is primarily for this building. This building is insured at a much higher rate than 575 Insurance is going on right and beemers has sent us an increase of half a percent So we focused on the leaders in conversations with the leadership team. We focused on four major priority areas That we want to share with you. We focused on maximizing the service delivery of this building We have this great new facility that has all this potential and we really want to make sure the community who is invested in this building sees the Sees that come to fruition. So specifically we're recommending adding two new part-time employees in library And expanding one 28-hour employee to a full-time employee and increasing the sub hours That will allow us to expand the hours of operation of the library and you'll hear more about that from jennifer We are proposing hiring a handy person. He'll hear more about the The physical plant budget in a minute We are also focusing on information technology and ensuring that we have as resilient service delivery in the it field as we can so adding a employee in it but also focusing on modernizing our cruiser cameras and body camera technology implementing office 365 and doing some permit automation And then we are also trying to focus on Investing in capital planning strategy and connecting that to maintenance as you've heard me talk about before So adding one fte to oversee capital planning citywide Which will be split between the funds general fund and enterprise fund This is also a position that is not Hugely mapped out at this point It's there's funding in the budget in the hopes that a new public works director really comes in and puts their Fingerprints on it and and decides what he or she Sees as the need And then our fourth priority Was really maximizing The use of our ARPA funding for one time costs So as you know, we have previously approved ARPA funding for bringing back some of those salary positions and stepping them down over the years So fy 23 Has those staff covered at 80 percent with 20 built into the general fund that will decrease in the out years And then we have about 672,000 of one time costs for capital investments and you see that list there This will Leave us about 4.5 million in our pro funds to still be expended And we have other ideas that we've heard listed here Specifically the million dollars for the housing trust fund As well as business support stormwater and wastewater projects As well as I know there's some interest in the community of having more of a community conversation about how those dollars are allocated And 2024 So here's the actual Presentation again all of the line item budgets are linked on that On that website So we are proposing general fund expenditures of 28.4 million With 10.4 coming from non-property tax revenue. That's a pretty significant increase I will call out that the majority of that increase is the ARPA funding So that is a one that is a over these years increase that will not carry forward into the future So 18 million coming from as the general fund tax levy with an estimated tax rate of 0.4438 And then we've marth has broken down there the if this is approved as presented the impact to the average condo and primary residence taxpayer of 25 and 38 dollars for next year annually Stop me if you have questions That's the 2% So thinking about revenues and expenditures for a minute I'm what's one of the things quite frankly having worked in three municipalities in Vermont is seeing Only 63 of your general fund budget paid with property tax dollars is pretty amazing. That is not the breakdown for most communities I you see the Oh, so I do want to call out the local options tax reverting to the pre covid levels Um, so we are seeing really strong local options tax numbers in the beginning of this fiscal year We are budgeting now. I think actually pretty conservatively to just get back to FY 20 numbers the November The November receipts that came in the Came in 111,000 dollars over the FY 19 rates So the first months right before the pandemic compared to these months More than 100,000 dollars higher in receipt. So we're pretty confident that we will hit this revenue target But we're not obviously going above it either We are projecting still continued lower program revenues in in recreation Specifically where people are still not ready to kind of connect the same way they used to But are seeing pretty significant increases in permitting revenues. So we're projecting that as well and you'll see that a little more later on This is a quick slide on the general fund expenditures and where these dollars go Again, this presentation is in your packet. So you can Zoom up and see those numbers. Um, I also do want to note that Um, one of the things that is Different about how South Burlington has historically done budgeting like this is that the Retirement and health insurance is not allocated out to the service area department. Only the salaries is allocated to the service area Um, so you see that pretty significant HR and benefits administration chunk, which is really where health insurance retirement Sits not out into the into police or public works or whatnot So there are some basic salaries in HR as well for our HR team But um, but the the salaries for all the other departments are allocated out to their departments What in the world do we spend for 73,000 73,000 for city council. Is that all the Publishing of the warnings and things we've had so many meetings warnings public hearing notices town meeting tv Oh, okay town meeting tv's in there. Okay. Thank you In our super duper salaries And then we have the pennies the two cents for Penny's for paths and open space. I do want to call out that with the reappraisal both of those pennies are going up 95 thousand dollars each. So it does have a pretty significant impact on On what they will be able to do into the future It's a 30 increase from last year just based on the reappraisal And that represents an additional two cents on the tax rate So I want to spend a little time talking about capital The capital improvement plan because we have fully integrated that into the general fund presentation this year Again mentioned we're proposing adding one fte This represents a million dollars of increase from our f y 22 spending levels As you can see f y this community really made some strategic smart strategic financial decisions to stay Solving and fiscally secure through the pandemic, but a lot of that was born on the back of the cip So trying to build that back up over time to ensure that we're staying up to date with our infrastructure if we thought was really important Again about over a half a million of that comes from one-time ARPA funding So that's not a sustainable tax capacity funding source, but it does allow us to move through some big capital investments For example buying an ambulance that is it's usually hard to do in one fiscal year Um, so um And then future years just as a foreshadow to you right now The capital spending sits within the operating budgets of each department We decide not to pull those out for this year because it was going to be a lot of work In a in a already transitional year, but in future years We hope to separate those out for you so you can see really what what are the operating costs of a department? And what are the capital needs costs of the department? What is a property tax investment? What is a property tax investment? A quarter million dollars increase in property tax investments for you So 268 thousand dollars Of funds from property tax are going into our our funding the cip and fy 23 above what they funded the cip for an fy 22 That was a really backwards way of saying that but Thank you understood And so more more excitingly talking about what are the projects we've prioritized So this is just a handful the complete list is on the website So we are including 75 thousand dollars for planning for the recreation center We are maintaining the 100 or 860 thousand dollars for the city center reserve, which is The previous rate at which it had been maintained. We are increasing the paving budget by 50 000 We're increasing the park improvement budget by 65 000 Definitely hearing folks talk about feral park the dog park at feral street, etc And then again where we're dedicating some of those arpa dollars for cip planning I do think it's important to call out all of the other funds you know the Obviously the big lift is the general fund because it is what how we how the taxpayers fund our operations But there are also a lot of other funds that we Operate to serve the residents of south berlington Those are also paid by the our neighbors through their utility bills So I've tried to capture here What percent of each fund is funded through either property taxpayers or ratepayers? And you can see that breakdown here We will be asking you to approve the enterprise budgets. It's part of this Budget approval again. Those are on the website As you'll see we have very low Very small rate increases projected for storm water and sewer Under about you know a dollar and a half for storm water increase for the year And six dollars and eighty cents for sewer We don't know the water rate yet because the champlain waters district is still going through their budget process We have been promised. We will have that number by the time. Justin does his budget presentation for you Um, I think it's always important to provide for you in these conversations the tally of where we are with fund balance This is your savings account across funds How we have used previously how we have set aside previously allocated dollars for those purposes Obviously, I'm not going to read through all of this, but I think the Two big things to call out are the 1.7 million you have in our recommended minimum balance for the general fund That's um cash on hand. That's what we need to make what our auditors say. We need to meet to maintain our operations And then the bottom line bottom right hand corner line of 400 000, which is really the The unassigned general operating amount. So that is your savings account. That is Where we would quickly pull one time Funding needs if we have them. So overall, I think this presents a picture Um, you know, you see we have really significant And by really significant, I mean healthy unassigned enterprise fund balances in our utilities. That's really great when you're talking about Utilities that have big capital cost vehicle costs, etc And then I did want to call out just a couple of merging issues in Providing you this FY 23 recommended budget So one we are as everybody in the united states and across the world is tracking inflation And costs of the unpredictable costs of goods We've made some assumptions about that in this budget, but we don't know really where that's going to go Our three union contracts are under negotiation now, but not settled We are still continuing to talk about regional dispatch and what that may look like Into future years as you probably know from kevin that That wouldn't necessarily require new money as the idea was always to use the existing budgeted money to stand that up But it is a kind of uncertainty going into FY 23, although our dispatch is great and can continue on no problem as is The work our volunteers and staff are doing on the climate action plan development that will be wrapping up as this budget kicks off. There is No additional funding Built into this budget for that plan, although there is funding allocated in this plan for purchases that could be influenced Given different priorities additionally, I do think that Through the state there is likely to be grant opportunities for changes and you know and And we will have to make different decisions over time um department heads wanted me to be very Clear that while it was really understandable last year to set a 1% tax rate increase It does still feel like we are catching up Given that a 1% tax rate increase is really a cut So specifically again, you see that in the cip planning and then currently we are Budgeting about a quarter of a million dollars in revenue from our health center partners We are looking to add a fourth that is not built into this revenue budget yet So if that happens that would increase that revenue budget So this is what's next. So tonight you'll hear from those of us who are here He'll hear from public safety public works and community development and pennies and energy Um, we are asking you tonight to set a public hearing on this budget including the capital improvement plan for January 10th 2022 and then approving that And the enterprise funds with the steering committee on January 24th Annual meeting on the 28th and coming day on the 1st. Okay So can we have a motion to set a public hearing I'll move that we set a public hearing for Monday, January 10th at 7 30 second Okay, any conversation or discussion On So this is Monday, January 10th. Yep Okay, uh, just to clarify, uh, I would love at some point pinning down Martin Luther king day and president's day Are we just moving the council meetings to the Tuesday right after into those? Okay. We always do that. Thank you Okay Well, the we'll probably have that would be a meeting so we are we just doing the budget hearing No, there there'll be other things so it'll be 6 30 and then we'll have the budget hearing to start at 7 30 Could we do is this a special meeting? Yeah, this is two weeks in a row. We're doing means so in So in January you have pretty much weekly weekly council meetings for the budget, um as we have What that cuts with the schedule? Um included so the third the 10th the 18th and then The 24th is the steering committee meeting Is that an email? That was in um when we first I guess that september 20th council Memo where we talked about the council goals It was in that sorry Didn't make that clear No, we we we talked about it. We just probably didn't put it down our calendars. Did we So Can I can I recommend a friendly amendment to your motion? Oh sure Can we do the public hearing? Warn it for seven because I anticipate that night you may also have Conversations about the ldr's and it would be good to do one and then the other and not have to bounce Yes Since we have a new manager, uh, I would love to just put something forward that uh I put forward with in kevin's reign if I may say and it was uh killed But we're using at uvm a lot more I would love it if you all sent out meeting requests to our south berlington accounts for all of these meetings So they would just be on there and magically appear on my phone. Uh, that would be awesome But I'll just say it leave it at that via does that for the leadership team I'm sure she would be happy to add you to the Make me so happy Okay, that's very friendly January 10th is oh, sorry That was 2021 2022 I know okay Um So now we're going to move on to Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. So you're ready for that vote. So we have a public hearing on the budget Commencing at 7 p.m on january 10th 2022 All in favor Thank you So assuming you have no questions on that. I'll just keep going. Yes, please Unless anyone has questions. I mean, I think we asked a few All right, so this is going to be really fast to get to the much more fun Library and recreation and parks presentations Um, so this is our fyi 23 Presentation on administration um, you will see So administration is all of those Uh service areas at the city that support all of the departments of the city In support of our operations We'll talk about staffing big budget items emerging issues and some fun spotlights More or less. This is the order that all of the future budget presentations will follow So this is your administration staffing So it represents about 25 of us who support the entire city team. So it city legal finance Tax collection communications and hr physical plant and of course the city clerk Many of these folks are here in the audience and several are also on Go to meeting as well. Um, and again really want to thank them for Their efforts to build their individual budgets and work with the whole leadership team So on the revenue side of things these are the big changes within the admin budget So again local options tax, um projected increases from last year Donna's revenue budget is going up quite significantly based on the vital records changes And the recording fee changes And then as I mentioned the permit revenues are increasing as well. So those are up 12% We do have a number of changes on the expenditure side So you'll see in the complete budget and guys i'm going to fly through these but Mike and greg jump in if I say something wrong We have created in this budget an entire physical plant budget pulling from other lines Across the general fund That's again really to recognize that previously Those those efforts to maintain a building Sat in each department's budget and we were requiring our content experts in Police and fire to know how to maintain their own buildings. So we're centralizing that expertise into greg's department under physical plant So Additionally as I mentioned before Adding to this a handy person or a facilities manager position Again to maintain this building that's getting a lot of use as well as to have that that team start Really getting their arms around all of our physical plants across the city That's one big change on the expenditure side the other two Are really in the it world. So we are Recommending the implementation of office 365 You'll see some of the advantages of that system for us moving to that Again builds up a lot of the resiliency We've seen recently some of the challenges when we don't have that resiliency So want to make sure we have that can be ensured at an adequate rate going into future years What are we on microsoft 10 What do we currently use So for those on go to meeting exchange on premise 2013 This is why we have a mic because a jesse does not know these And then we're recommending the implementation of permitting and development review Software that will allow us to automate that process not only for improved customer service and workflow management by paul and his team But also for data collection and data management over time And then again adding that it person Oh in the clerk's office. We are increasing expenditures for elections We have two big big elections in fy 23 And of course that always comes with The additional costs other than that expenditures are pretty stable And then we are also proposing adding a part-time position in the welcome center This is really to manage with the retirement of Todd um Really went from a two-person assessing and tax collection team to martha lions who managed through the reappraisal transition exceptionally well with support from meredith But as we come out of that really understanding that one person In that team and one person the welcome center is not sufficient to back each other up and to maintain that level of customer service For our constituents, so we believe that with a part-time person Kind of staffing in the middle of the day will be able to be more nimble with meredith in her time And then just a couple emerging issues to call out Martha lions is already working with nemerick on some of the inequities that kind of presented themselves as part of the reappraisal and wanting to ensure that with The next grand less those are corrected We also are anticipating the rollout of new Um camera grand less software at the state level that we will need to interact with this year um the clerk's office is is working on putting all their land records online and Doing that with a subscription fee which donna is doing yeoman's work to manage through with the vendor And then again additionally reappoint the reapportionment that you all know a great deal about May change how we staff elections into the future What is nemerick? nemerick is the new england martha what's nemerick? municipal It's the financial system for the city and for most cities in vermont. So it's it's all of our AR AP budget management technology system The municipal resource center. Thank you Um and they historic for decades have also been the holder of the state's List for the education property tax and the state is moving to a new system, which means that the municipalities have to link Our old system our nemerick system with that system or opt for such change um Almost done here folks promise um We have been having a number of conversations about Data-driven decision-making and how we either hire consultants or work with interns to get The right amount of data collection expertise on the team to be able to make decisions that are based on what's happening on the ground here Not only in kind of demographics and permitting but also in budget management and overtime management and things like that So we are we are Shadowing to you that we may come to you at some point in the future with a specific request for this with You know a 50 million dollar budget and 180 plus employees I think this this is really an investment in future years that could Make us much more efficient and effective I mentioned the climate action plan and future funding the implementation of our captive and and Health center and the addition ability to bring on a fourth partner and then As with all organizations in the u.s. We are seeing pretty significant recruitment challenges Is there a chance of even more than a fourth partner There is a chance of more than a fourth partner but also In want to strategically bring them on incrementally not do a big rush onto the service because we do want to Make sure one of the values of that health center is Folks can get in quickly to see a provider if they want and we want to make sure we keep that right level of level of service So then I included some Fun and great things really successes that the team saw this year Read all of these you know about most you know about all of them Your appraisal And new building. Yeah, we know about those Okay So I just wanted to end by Acknowledging that this has been a huge period of transition for our staff With the return from coveted the transition to andrew and myself The moved for many of us moved to this new facility many of us moving from having our own offices to an open office concept And all the other real life changes everybody is experiencing and the team is really just stepped up and managed that with Grace grace and patience and positive attitudes and curiosity and I am so very thankful for that That is all I want to say So I think next Okay, I like to see that you are working with the businesses on that and how to adapt and The public health aspects that tim raised before I think you I feel that the city you know managed I think that I take Eli at his word that there were no infections at his at his supermarket and I think that's That's really important for just maintaining You know safety and health and all those good things that make for a stable So thank you for stepping up and taking care of that frontline interface with all the businesses Thank you. All right, so Jennifer come on down And are you sharing signs and Ted I guess is helping you Great welcome Jennifer Murray with the public library Accompanied by Ted Lenski. Who is the treasurer of the board of trustees? So I'm assuming that you all have seen the actual numbers. So my comments are more narrative than Here we are So um our our significant increase is as Jesse's already mentioned Some more staffing hours We currently have 10.75 fte at the library And we're open 47 hours and we um In this budget, we would be moving to 12.4 fte and be open for 55 hours Great So when we're looking at revenue the projected increase Will be largely determined by meeting room and auditorium rentals, which Of course, all we can do is project at this point So one of the big changes is we have some facilities increases in there in addition to the library staff and The my picture is not there. Oh So I included a picture of mark pushing the Trash can because it was bright yellow and had all this cool stuff on it Facilities staff are very responsive to the library's needs thus far And this budget helps to maintain the library and other existing buildings So we have some money that goes towards that when you note that spending is down Does that mean you've reduced it and there's still things that you need or that last year was the initial purchase so The latter Yes, so last year we had special purchases, but we do not have in the coming year. Okay So overall the library's Emerging issues revolve around Continuing to serve people who are maybe not coming to the library during covet and need service at their home And developing best practices for collaboration and inviting new people in to visit and use library services So that's kind of a summary of what you see there That includes new americans Families and senior citizens who may be reluctant to come to the library, but how can we help them anyway or how can we include them in a way that's safe and providing electronic resources Canopy is very frustrating canopy We'll talk about that. You can't pause a movie and go back the next day and watch the rest It counts it as a full movie viewing Just so you know, that's sorry. No, thank you for sharing that Oh, you don't have to allocate enough time when you rent a movie No, that's helpful information. We'll talk later So Spotlight of course as jesse mentioned is we moved in so that was a big that's a big spotlight And I want to invite all of you to come by anytime and take a look at the guest book That we have at the door to help you understand how happy the residents and the visitors are With the new library Any questions? No, I think it I only get good feedback about the library and it seems to be More and more people are using it. So I think that's terrific Said one. Yeah, so you're expanding to 55 hours. Tell me is that just later into the evenings more on Sundays or weekends? So we don't have this This increase does not include enough Bodies to be open on Sundays yet But we would be opening at 9 in the morning and closing at 8 at night as opposed to being open at 10 and closing at 7 Gives us an opportunity to as needed Perhaps have two story times in the morning instead of just one And most programs a lot of our programs We end up having staff who have to stay after their regular hours because people aren't ready to leave yet And then we have to juggle that with the schedule I think the other key is the incremental staffing costs for the gain in hours the ratio is improving significantly So you're making a small incremental salary investment to gain more hours Than what you currently have. So these small incremental salary investments will start expanding the hours more So as you build that baseline that'll help as well, right? Can I tell one quick cute story? Yes. Well, what I perceive is a cute story About the budget. I mean come on You know how to have a good time, don't you? So we did the budget a little differently this year and that we The department has all built their own budget and then we came together and made decisions about what we should recommend to you Altogether so it really was the budget that's before you is the entire leadership team's budget So Jennifer actually in her initial budget request Called out and was going to add to her staff Really focused attention on it and av and and mike had not included that in his budget request But as we talked at the leadership team level and really realized how critical That capacity was to the entire city Jennifer's request turned into mike's request and there was I think a lot of support on the whole team to Prioritize funding in that way And I think I just really want to thank you Jennifer and mike for the the open-mindedness and the Sense of camaraderie to get to holistically what was best for the community and not just the individual siloed department Thank you for letting me tell a cute little story. Thank you Well, thank you very much Okay, now we have holly Wow Could I report that some of the lights are not functioning at the display it better? Do you know that? No, okay How do you know that I drove by it on the way here and it's there's a blue tunnel Yeah, the blue tunnel was off when I came down just so you know Good to know It's a good thing that we have staff that are monitoring that and I'll have to worry about it I'll have them check in on it. It is rainy. It is rainy. Could be a frozen something So good evening. Jennifer was really prompt and quick. So I will try to do the same holly reese Thrilled and proud director of recreation and parks our small but mighty team So we can start by doing introductions. So there's myself as the director We're thrilled to welcome Rebecca Isham. She is basically the senior center programmer Although she does do some adult recreation programs as well Brett Leonard is our other recreation specialist So he is taking the lead on all seasonal sports right now as well as additional inventory And things like community events and travis lat is our special projects coordinator So he does marketing pieces kind of all design aspects as well as field and facility requests And the like and then we have a vacant position. So Was that ashley? Nope, ashley is independent. She's not while she interfaces with our department a lot. She's not under our umbrella Oh, okay. Yep. So this position was held by Ben McShane two years ago He left during covet the position remained vacant until last July We hired a lovely woman named lauren She was with us for about a month and a half and then got a random teaching position that she just couldn't pass up And so we've been vacant since then So I would just like to give an extra shout out to again both Well, all three of the staff but specifically bret and travis for Really now for two years picking up the slack of being short staffed in addition, we traditionally had always had a Registrar or an administrative assistant and When we moved into this building that Duty got shifted. So we're all, you know, we have a new software system, which is fairly intuitive. We're excited for that And just working through those, you know, growing pains as we go So we're hopeful that the welcome center does get an additional staff person So they can take on registrations in a more timely manner as well So that's us Um, it's just a little bit about our budget expenditures and just I put the actual of 21 just to really impress upon people in the world of recreation The negative financial impact that covet has had on the flip side of that The impressive impact it's had in people really connecting with recreation specifically with nature and being outside So while we don't see the money coming in from programs We have seen a huge increase in people interacting with our parks, which is great Um, and then really any change that's significant is due to the cip as jesse said being embedded into the general fund So under revenues, you're already there reading my mind So under revenues, here's where we would, you know, point out some of the Loss of revenues or anticipated, you know impacts of youth programming adult programming You know, we are still using school services or school facilities as much as we can Those are definitely impacted still although we were thrilled to support a basketball season this year last year We couldn't so we were really excited to have kickoff day on saturday Fingers crossed that that keeps going. We made the decision to do in-house leagues only so we won't play brollington and shellburn and Outside of our district will will stay in house and and hopefully will be successful with that and keep everybody safe Last year because the school couldn't offer driver's ed. We offered four driver's ed programs and It's money and money out, but on the revenue side. It's a chunk of money So it's it's about 11,000 dollars for each session. So I wanted to highlight that We have streamline that breaks even you bring in 11,000. We make we make money, but it is a big payout. Yeah. Okay. Yeah Um, I we make about 6,000, you know in each session, but the payout is about 11,000 to the instructor And that's just the extreme hours It's about 780 dollars for a session Um, as my girls are wanting to get into them. I'm like, oh save your pennies Um, and then so we night out just of you know years of streamlining that event It doesn't cost as much anymore. We have some additional sponsorship Um Dollars that aren't coming in as revenue, but they're taking care of some expenses So that's a little adjusted and then we used to run a discount ticket program For vrpi, so the Vermont recreation and parks association as a fundraiser for them That was basically ticket sales for great escape and now those are at every grocery store. You can never imagine So we don't participate in that anymore and that was money and money out, but you'd see that on the revenue Next So the big piece for us is cip projects. I know it was definitely mentioned that You know, there's concerns at the feral dog park and while that's not specifically called out here I would like to take the opportunity to say that this project list While we're thrilled to support it is a drop in the bucket compared to what needs to be done to maintain our parks And so We'll call that out in the next couple of slides It's just something to think about in ongoing years is that we have a lot of deferred maintenance in our parks And some of those are big ticket items like the red rocks bath house um And other of those that you might not think about as big ticket items have been deferred maintenance on our ball fields And ball fields need to be recrowned irrigation needs to be replaced You know all those kind of pieces and and they add up to pretty significant expenses. So They're lumped together for the 2024 cip ready and waiting But we will have to have a plan to kind of incrementally chip away at those Do do we get any income from the baseball fields? We do. So, um, the the fields that we rent Anywhere between 35 and 55 thousand dollars a year is what we make off of those fields And those go right back into paying for the seasonal support to actually maintain them As well as any supplies so paint, you know Ball field mix like those kind of things have those rates increased We did increase those rates three years ago You know, we did a chitenden countywide survey. So we're on par certainly with where everybody else is It's something that we need to look at and I think you know the The odd piece of recreation and parks is the one foot in and one foot out We don't have any responsibilities for maintenance of recreation and parks or the parks But because we facilitate rentals then from our department, then we facilitate what needs to be maintained in those rentals So we staff the seasonal folks who maintain the ball fields that we're renting But dpw staffs the seasonal folks that take the rest of you know The mowing piece and the garbage removal and you know all the other functions. So For this coming season, this is what we have. We still have the south village recreation amenity, which has long been imagined as a Youth soccer field. So that's coming closer and closer to fruition coming through those specific rec impact fees So not the general fund We have the long deferred skinned softball field at jc park So south burlington doesn't host a skin softball field and it's been a long desire from You know adult league play as well as the south burlington youth baseball softball league So they will work with us to get that done What is the skin softball? It's where you take you take the grass off of the infield of of You know a softball field. So it's you know the red clay So, yeah Highly desired and most communities host multiple softball fields So and then can anyone use it or is it? again limited to bonafide softball team Well, so youth softball would use it and our adult softball leagues would would certainly use it that they're more of a summer and fall Where youth softball would be spring and summer so Yep um The shimansky court pickleball creation as well as basketball court resurfacing So this was something that we had in the fy 22 budget in terms of resurfacing But then there was a pretty strong Uh contingency of pickleballers that didn't feel it was sufficient just to have pickleball lines on tennis courts and we had some restructure um to Designate to I guess there's now going to be four pickleball courts As well as a tennis court at shimansky park. So that will happen as as close to the beginning of fy 23 as we can get So it'll be open for the season And they we do have modest improvements at the Veterans Memorial Park athletic field. So that $10,000 will basically redo the three baseball mounds at veterans memorial And then we put in money for utility vehicle out of that Helen as you were saying out of those gross monies that we collect from the fields And right now we currently have one utility vehicle and we split it between you know red rocks And whatever our needs are at veterans memorial, but oftentimes With issues that have been going on at the parks the fire department needs the gator down at red rocks for rescue recoveries Our parks crew needs it for exploration of trails You know, we want to have it as an option for police as they're doing more policing At the park. So this would offer an opportunity to have a utility vehicle at each location and not have to worry about coordinating with trailer services and that kind of thing And then roof replacements at our two pavilions one at red rocks and one at jc So that's what we're anticipating for 2023 And then you can kind of read through the list of the deferred cip project. All of a sudden there's more zeros Yes. Um, and so those, you know, just discussion points to come so you can read through those at your leisure There's a couple pages of them. So you can just pass through those Whoa um Yep, so the one that I will go back one Yep, and I also wanted to just highlight the need for a parks master plan So this can be pretty comprehensive but as we're talking about open lands and um, you know, we're talking about where are the gaps in our park district And we want to lay out the next 10 15 25 years of growth So we're not looking at the next new shiny thing There are certainly areas in our community that are heavily saturated in recreation opportunities and certainly gaps So I would highlight that as a priority of something that we want to kind of, you know Be thinking about in the pretty near future. Um, and something we've talked with the planning department about collaborating with So next slide. So here, yep. So on the previous one, I thought I heard council memory raising a concern dog park amenities How do we as a council? I just got to say I think we've been neglecting dog park amenities for too long And if we can move this out of deferred into this year, I just as one counselor I want to say we need to do something about the dog parks And I don't know if that $60,000 needs to be put back on the table or not to do that Yeah, so I can say for the dog park, um, because I too have had some conversations with Betty Melizia Um, and so we kind of talked about where are we with current money? um, and I think that there's $20,000 in the current cip Um, and there's nothing in the 23 cip. So that's something you can certainly talk about Um, improvements at ferrule while I know that the common area for dogs committee has a list I don't know that they have a pricing list or if those have been, you know, verified With a civil engineer, for example, they want to hire one So I think there are opportunities for that discussion And you know and where we go from there, I know there are going to be some transitions as Justin vacates his position, so Certainly something to discuss so they have $20,000 I believe that that's the case for for this year, but I don't know where Justin is in terms of that budget Yeah, so that would be something that we would want to verify with him Would would have messed up parks master plan um consider um like bonding, I mean there's I don't know probably a million dollars worth of stuff that is on all these lists that's deferred I mean, maybe that's an exaggeration, but there was I think it's close 100,000 so Yeah, so I'm just curious we we keep Kind of you know, we bring on another park and we have some more open space and we've identified dog parks and I mean the numbers just keep going up and not as much can get done um, and I'm just curious if uh If that would be an output from a park's master plan is so these are all the things we need to do And can we bond for it or something and just get it done I think that there's a lot of opportunities because as we go along We have certainly added a lot of land inventory, but also developed park inventory I mean even since my leadership, we've had city center park come on board We've had a play a playground at baycrest come on board There's also, you know two development playgrounds that we're going to be onboarding and there's potential to onboard other development You know recreation amenities as well So we really do need to get a handle on Right, so what what are our what are our needs? What's the full-time equivalent of maintenance that's going to be required? Whether it's the open space parcels our natural area parcels our pocket parks And making sure that we're not continuing to add to our inventory without adding on the other side of maintenance as well And and a park's master plan can help figure those pieces out as well as suggest funding sources So if I can interject from it, um, I think just add to what holly just said I agree with everything she said But I think a park's master plan is much more about what are our values about Parks and open spaces as a community and to what extent are we meeting those So we did for example one of these in winewski where we said we want to have every resident within a seven minute walk of a park And are we achieving that goal? That's that's I'm not saying that should be our goal. I'm just Right, I understand. I think it's a fabulous goal And so then we then we can start Strategizing about where we make those future investments of new infrastructure I think a bonding question is interesting But I think that's the next step once we know where we are and hopefully, you know What's on the policies and procedure or the policy and strategy document? Is how such a plan would intertwine with the update of the city's complaint? Because those two things really should go hand in glove as we think about You know, what where are we going as an infrastructure city? Parks and open space is a big part of that infrastructure Yep Okay, so on to some of the department highlights You know been really nimble during these really challenging times and bringing our community together even though Maybe there's more of a frizzle at the park at the moment as opposed to spark, but we'll check into that But that was definitely really such a downer He's checking it out. That's that's the mark. I guess somebody was observing which is great So a really great opportunity does, you know, it costs the city only the cost of of lighting the event which is nominal So we've got a great sponsorship with north country and So they did 20 000 last year 20 000 this year And so we'll continue to to build so it's great to see what is traditionally You know sports heavy park be kind of utilized in a totally different way off season And in addition, we had always hosted or traditionally had hosted a pretty significant indoor halloween event that needed to switch to an outdoor We were able to take really great advantage of the You know the the beautiful goose pond water retention pond that's right down the road and bring traffic into 180 market street Ahead of the building opening and so we grew that again this year and a ton of people come through So two kind of new Events that we wouldn't have thought about without kovat. So we're trying to take full advantage of the spaces that we have And then the next one is The senior center opening so really excited that we finally got here and it's thriving So people have been starving for that connection Definitely are enjoying we will be mindful of meals. So we do two meals a week We have the holiday meal for seniors coming up this friday night. So with you know, masking will be extra sensitive But there's stuff happening all the time there. So three and four activities a day Sometimes we see around a hundred people and we're also trying to diversify to use it for some of our community events so you'll see that we had the pumpkin carving event there and We've got a lot of people that are interested in renting the facility whether it's for birthday parties going away parties Homeowners associations. That's a really nice spot. So we're thrilled to be taking advantage of that and having that grow And then last but not least is An opportunity ahead of us. So last slide Is the indoor recreation center So just couldn't miss an opportunity to kind of keep talking about this and have this on the radar So the budget does include $75,000 to kind of continue with the process I know a lot and I were sitting in front of you not too long ago kind of Looking for some direction and giving some options. So we just want to make sure that that's still there There's also big conversations to be had with the school. So As they kind of continue through their master planning and strategic planning and figuring out the the growth or the overgrowth And and what they're doing with their facilities. I think it's a really great opportunity for us to have community conversations about Our community facilities whether, you know, those are school facilities or we we grow them to additional facilities as well, but real opportunities there And I think we're all really excited about the success of the senior center and seeing, you know All the synergy that we could have with an indoor rec center as well for our community Despite where we decide to put that And then also just really trying to be nimble and meet the recreation needs of the community I like to say post-pandemic because I hope that we'll get there And, you know, I think people are just going to be really hungry for that once we can kind of get back to that on a regular basis again so lots going on Amazing staff they are working all the time And I couldn't be more proud of them and and they love what they do so That's us Well, thank you for your great leadership a lot going on Yeah questions. Are there any questions? What's the program schedule for friday night? Um, I know the concert's at seven. So I think the meal is at five 30 These are entertainment A green mountain chorus will be performing here. And so we will leave After dinner and have everybody relocate here. Okay. Yep, and they will be masked for sure So, yeah, what's the menu? Um, I think it's I think it's roast Pork, but it yep, I'd have to double check that that's kind of rebecca's specialty I'm vegan and gluten-free. Will it be okay with somebody? You just need to let somebody know that You may just be getting mashed potatoes. I'm not sure but there'll be an option I can't have any potatoes either. Sorry. Okay. Well, then you'll receive smiles and a concert And then we'll put you to work in fixing the lights is tomorrow too late to respond. I forgot No, I think the only thing that we'll need to do is just make sure that it's warned if um, there's gonna be folks there Yeah, no business I will not sit with that tim barrett. I'll tell you Hmm Well, thank you for your time Thank you Okay Item 14 reports from counselors on committee assignments. Are there any? Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes So I'm sorry. I wasn't here at six o'clock for the other reports, but we did have a queen city park, you know bike scoping meeting with ccrpc and it went very well and We looked at some of the possible configuration plans that they might have and and the relation to the work on the The parkway and things like that. So that was that was productive. That was our second meeting, by the way And they haven't scheduled the next one yet. Um I also attended the first uh impact fee for the school district meeting Last week on thursday, I think it was with the superintendent and the finance person and myself and uh jonathan slayson from rsg So that went really well. We raised some Oh, and mr. Conner was there. Yes, and we uh raised some really good questions and and talked about data and talked about effects and so It was a good first meeting. I really appreciated the effort. So Look forward to the next one too. Great. Well, thank you for participating in both of those Um any other reports? Did you want to say anything about the airport director? You were talking about it last meeting. Yeah, and we've um I don't have anything additional to report. We worked on a Um that description a job description and send it off and what they're going to do with it. I don't know We did get some good updates on the tsa. So I mean the airport continues to get A lot of money from um The faa to do numerous projects It in some ways, it's kind of surprising because it's a pretty small airport But they I guess know how to write a application and get it. So um, they continue to get funded to do um the tsa thing and um, you know some other um Improvements to the runways and where they wait and so You know, it's how about the insulation projects for or noise mitigation They are working on identifying The the process they have a process and they are They I think they have identified the homes. They have to meet with the Homeowners to see if they're interested but that they got the funding for that So do you know when that will start? Do you have a timeline? Um I don't but I will find out for you. I can't remember But that is certainly moving forward and they continue to get the money for it. So do this to them So Um, so if there's no other Count committee assignments, is there any other business? Okay Then I would entertain tim you have all your You may be late, but you got the paperwork. I have the paperwork. So good enough Uh, I would like to move that the council enter into executive session to consider candidates for appointment To the recreation and parks committee inviting in jesse baker and andrew bulldock second All in favor And I also would like to move that the council make a specific Finding that premature general public knowledge of the council's discussions with the city's attorney regarding the proposed LDRs or land development regulations for the purpose of providing legal guidance and advice to the council would clearly place the city at a substantial disadvantage second All in favor I Having so found I now move the council enter into executive session to consider Confidential attorney client communications made for the purpose of providing professional legal services to the city council and inviting in jesse baker Andrew bulldock Collin mcneil paul connor and amanda lappardee second All in favor I Okay, and I need the little red book so I can sign it Yeah, the warrants the warrants. Oh Okay, we will not be coming back into session I don't believe so Okay, well good meeting. I'm sorry