 But today we are going to talk about why and how we can evangelize Muslims. And I'm be known to him, actually Curtis gave me a little introduction yesterday. We've never met before and he doesn't know my story. And I felt like it was the Holy Spirit kind of giving this little introduction for me. And as he said preaching the gospel, not only to Muslims, of course, but to everybody in our life. You know, starting with our family, close friends is paramount to not only their spiritual life, but our spiritual life. Because the more we talk about Christ and share him with our lives, not just talking, of course, then the closer we get to him. So today I want to start with seven tips on evangelizing Muslims. My friend there has handouts if you haven't received one. I just wanted to give you this one. And after these seven tips we will talk about the difference between Allah and God the Father. Because I think it's a really important part of understanding the differences between the two religions. But let's start with this. So one of the things I think I will also mention it tomorrow. But when I first, for the first time met a Christian missionary, she wasn't Catholic. She was a Protestant missionary in Turkey. We were talking about how Christianity is a Western invention, right? This is one of the things we are brought up to believe as Muslim children. And she's like, it's not Western. So she turns around her Bible, opens the back. And of course, there's a map of Turkey in there, right? Of course, it's before it was Turkey. And I'm like, this is such a lie. I bet they have a map of China in the Chinese Bibles, right? Because like we are taught to believe that nothing a Christian says is believable, right? They're always trying to like trick you with their missionary trickies. They're trying to bribe you into becoming Christians. And they're trying to subvert your morality. So I'm like, oh, there she is. Because I knew nothing about Christianity. So if you encounter a Muslim either online or here, or you travel to a Muslim country, which is becoming more and more common. And some of you may have encountered Muslims already. Also, Islam is a very missionary religion. They want to spread Islam. As you know, if you truly believe it, you would want to spread it. So, you know, let the best man win, I suppose. And they want to spread Islam. So what you will see that there is an increasing Muslim presence online and they're very good about it. And a lot of youth, especially in this relativistic culture, they are drawn to Islam. Like that's one of the most common emails I get from the parents of kids who grow up in Catholic families. They go to college, meet a Muslim community, and they feel very attracted to this religion because it's very simple. It doesn't require you to make these heart changes, like serious internal conversions, like Christ asks. And of course, it's very worldly attractive. And my husband was a corrections officer for a long time. And 25% of his prison in America was Muslims because, yes, it's very common. If you know of anybody who works in prison ministry or in prisons, they would say the same thing. They have a completely different schedule during Ramadan because it attracts that worldly pride and masculinity, not the true Christlike masculinity, but the false masculinity that the world teaches. And it's also they are very community oriented. So as Christians, we just need to be aware of what we are going up against. So we will talk about a little more about what kind of religion Islam is, but also we need to remember that it's a very community oriented people. And it's like regardless of what country. I was talking to Steve Ray earlier and he said he lives right next to the biggest, I can't remember the town right now, biggest Muslim community in America. And Dearborn, yes, thank you. And like really, and he was telling me how they come together more and more and try to change the culture. Again, we are all on board for that, but they are doing it, you know, small ways in more efficiently. So you will inevitably, probably, encounter a Muslim either online, work job, when you go to vacation, you know, they're there. It's a global world and keeps shrinking. So and because most of the Muslims believe that Christians are subversive and liars and, you know, and there isn't much you can do to change that. So as every missionary effort, every evangelization effort, wherever you go, should start with prayer. And this is even more important with Muslims. And here is what St. Paul says in Romans, brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. So I was thinking about, again, Curtis Martin said about St. Therese, like you may not talk to Muslims ever, but if you just keep praying for them, praying for them. And this religion has a lot of spiritual components in it, a lot of superstition, and I believe a lot of demonic activity, which requires a ton of prayer, a ton of intercession and fasting. If you could put aside a day to fast once a month, once a year, you know, an afternoon, you know, there's so much power in it. So you always need to be prayerful and start there and assign a patron saint to this person because there's just there's a lot of unseen, invisible struggle going on there. So and secondly, be faithful. So again, one of the things, as I was growing up, one of the things was we had all these old Turkish movies, right? So of course, the Turkish men are very strong, handsome, you know, very, it's just very likable, and they are heroic. And all the bad guys were Christians wearing big crosses on their chest. And they, you know, they lied, cheated, plundered villages, raped, awful people, and all Christian women were, you know, loose. And they were trying to tempt the, you know, virtuous Muslim men. So as we grow up, we see this over and over again. And of course, what they import from the West, since, you know, this secular culture became dominant, I mean, consider what you see in Hollywood, and consider now living in a Muslim country and watching all this stuff and thinking that's what Christianity is because they can't tell the difference between authentic Christianity and secularism. To them, it's all kind of a big, big mesh, right? So one of the most important things before you can even consider talking about Christianity or theology or arguing, discussing or whatever, is that you have to have a solidly virtuous and faithful life. Because then they're like, oh, look how much he loves his wife, serves and cherishes her. Oh, look at the wife. She's a devoted wife and a mother and loves Christ. So, and again, I will share this tomorrow, but that was one of the biggest witnesses, like, because that peace, joy, and love that comes from Christ, it cannot be seen in a Muslim family. And like most Muslims grow up, all Muslims grow up with this against slave master kind of relationship, constant hierarchy, and that love and peace our Lord offers is nonexistent. So when you see it, it kind of slaps you in the face. So you're like, okay, I want that. I don't know what that is, but I want that. And there is just enormous attraction to it. And of course, you need to realize that the first victim of Islam as a religion is Muslims. You were, most of us were blessed, well, I wasn't, but blessed to be born in the West, right? So you had the opportunity to learn about Christ. And not everybody had equal opportunity, of course, but they were born in a Muslim country. They don't know anything different. So as they grow up, they are stuck in this, you know, bubble where there is no joy and love as Christ offers. So when they see it, it's just an enormous witness, a good, faithful, Catholic, prayerful, devout life is an enormous witness. So always be faithful. So then that should come before any conversation, if possible. And be joyful. Again, it's similar to being faithful and like the king, like the king of Assyria that's mentioned in Ezra, the Lord had made them joyful and had turned the heart of the king of Assyria to them. I was talking to someone earlier today, I don't know if he's here, but he mentioned how his friend goes to these conferences and when he comes back like there's this like violence and vengeance in his eyes, right? Because Islam is not a religion of joy. And the true authentic Christian joy, not like, you know, happy bubbly always kind of because we can't be and life is hard. But the true joy that comes from Christ is again, it's so unheard of, like they don't understand like how we can accept suffering, right? And then be joyful within this suffering or we can be joyful in our like in daily mundane tasks like folding the laundry or doing the dishes or going to work, right? So always, you know, remember that the joy you have everybody can see. Again, this is of course true when you're evangelizing not just Muslims, but everybody else. And one of the things is this being faithful and being joyful. It makes you very like spiritually attractive that they want to spend more time with you, they want to get to know you a little more and then slowly that mistrust that they grew up with will start to shatter and they will bring, you know, bring about a friendship where they're ready to listen to, right? Like, I am not inclined to listen to a complete strangers, stranger on the street, like, I don't know you, why should I take your advice? But a good faithful Catholic friend, yes, I will take their advice. I will answer your questions and then that I will open my heart to them. So that being faithful and joyful will bring you to friendship. And the Eastern culture, the Muslim culture is very different than Western. Again, they're very community oriented and it's very hierarchical and there are a lot of rules around the house or the way you talk to people, like, you know, growing up if an elder, like somebody who is older than me came to the house, if they didn't have to be elderly, five years older than me, I had to get up, leave my place and then, you know, do my best to serve them, which is a great, you know, way to show respect, right? So there's a lot of rules like that. So, you know, I will start how to properly carry a glass of water, right? How to be a good host when you have guests. So these are very important things. So it's not like as relaxed as the American, you know, American culture. So it's like our Lord talks about how when you go into a house, you don't like sit yourself at the head of the table in case you make yourself a fool. You wait until you try to sit at the homeless place and you will be honored if they ask you to go to the head of the table. So there are a lot of rules that you may not know in a Muslim household, especially you are personally interacting or even in your speech, you need to be a lot more, you know, kind of respectful and remember. And I like this verse from Sirac, the foot of a fool rushes into a house, but the man of experience stands respectfully before it. So you go into people's house, you know, they take their shoes off all the time because house, their homes is a clean, sacred kind of place. So always be respectful to their traditions and be purposeful. Now, while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question. So like clearly Jesus knows everything, why is he asking a question to the Pharisees? So again, we will talk about the servile fear here in a bit. But it's very hard to understand for the Western mind to understand that they kind of, as they grow up, they grow up in the servile fear that they are not supposed to question Allah. They are not ever supposed to question Muhammad. They can even, you know, draw pictures of Muhammad, like let alone question it. So you kind of grow up with this fear that you may go to hell, you may be struck or whatever. As they grow up, it builds a very strong wall. So to break that wall, it's almost sometimes you need like a read a traumatic experience. And it takes a long time to come to a place to question Islam. And of course, they don't trust Christians because, you know, we kind of lie and cheat and all that stuff. So what happens is like you need to be very purposeful with your questions, right? Like, you know, ask them about their own religion, try to tell, get them to think about what they actually believe. Because what happens is Islam, once you start questioning it, is a house of cards. It's just like, you know, collapses. So there isn't, you know, there isn't much substance there. But the trick is to bring people to question. And if once they start questioning your own religion, you know, they talk about Bible has changed. And then you're like, okay, when, who, why, how did this happen? So be purposeful with your questioning and reasoning and listen and try to make them dig deeper. So they can come to that place where their question will help them break that wall of fear. And then, you know, then they can see the, see the truth. Okay. And be peaceful. Right? Yes, did I? Yeah. Yes. So Muhammad is the man, their prophet. Right? So he's more like Moses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Be peaceful. In me, you may have peace in the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world. So again, the gospel, the gospel sounds like foolishness when they first hear it. Again, because we've been living in it, we don't realize how crazy it sounds is that, you know, God became man and he died on the cross. And then he resurrected like all the stuff Christians believe is crazy. And not to, you know, not to only eighties, but to Muslims too, because it's a very like worldly carnal kind of religion Islamist. So they cannot just imagine it. So it sounds insane. And so in the middle of this, you know, constant battle, you, as you preach the gospel, should find your peace and stay there. And, and they will be very argumentative and feisty often. Most of the Muslims are very, they're very hospitable and caring and kind. But when it comes to Islam, they will argue. And this is nothing, nothing bad, because it's not like, it's not like here, you don't talk about politics or religion. They're like, what else is there to talk about? You know, these are like utterly important things. It's my eternal destiny. Of course, I want to talk about Islam. So they will get feisty and argumentative. And within that, you must always remain, you know, restain your peace. And even that peace and joy you show in your argumentation, that is going to be a witness in itself. But lastly, again, this kind of goes back to being prayerful is be hopeful. Because in the end, no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit, right? You can't change anybody's heart. You can't change anybody's mind. So I will talk about this tomorrow, that like how long it took for the Lord to like, kind of chase me and slap me and give me people and just show me all these things. And I still didn't get it, right? And finally, in the end, he's like, okay, I'm going to just slap her upside. Like I look back on my conversion story, I'm just completely the sidekick. It's not like, you know, it's just the Lord pursuing people. So that's at the heart of evangelization. There's so much we can do. And often we are like, you know, little kids who are trying to help their moms bake a cookie in the kitchen, or making more of a mess than an actual nice cookie, right? And at the same time, the Lord doesn't need us, right? I mean, we have to do it for our own salvation, salvation of the others. He chooses to let us help in this kitchen. And he gives us like all the tools, everything we need, the Holy Spirit, all of that. But at the end, he's the one. He's the cook. He puts it in the oven and bakes the whole thing and gets it out perfectly. So we just like, we do as much as we can. And that's it, you know, we're just going to be hopeful that he's going to carry out his own work. I mean, that's one of the things again, Curtis was talking about, you know what, there are no Catholic, it's so hard to find Catholic missionaries in Muslim countries, because, you know, again, we will talk about it kind of because of universalism. Hey, you just be a good Muslim and you'll go to heaven. Then there are no Catholic missionaries, but the Lord is like, okay, fine, I'll give them visions and dreams. There are just scores of Muslims becoming Christian. I met this young lady. She was, she's from Egypt, and she grew up Muslim. And during Ramadan, she's praying every, you know, she's fasting every day and praying. It's a very kind of a holy time for them. And she started to, as she read the Quran, she started to kind of question and she's like, all these suspicions and questions are getting in her head. So she prayed that Allah, I don't want to have these suspicions anymore. Please send me a dream of Muhammad. So I don't have to have these suspicions anymore. Like they want to be at peace with their dream. So she goes to sleep and she has a dream of our Lord with our Lady standing behind him. So like she was not exposed to Christianity more than, you know, your average Muslim, Egypt is, you know, there's a little more exposure because of Coptic Christians. So she knew that she had to find a Catholic church and she went and the Protestants were ready to baptize them there. Like, do you believe in Mary? She's like, no, no, no, no, they're like, we don't do that. We don't do the Mary thing. It's a Catholic thing. But the Catholics were not, they were not willing to baptize her, initiate her in any manner because they didn't want to get in trouble with the, but, you know, that's one of the things. Our Lord institutes the sacraments. So we can, unlike Protestants, you know, we can't become Catholics without a priest. You know, we need the sacraments to continue this fight. So we need, obviously Holy Spirit is doing his job, but we need to do our part, you know, which, again, we will talk about it. So he will send, you know, visions, dreams, and all these like amazing stuff. There was a sheik in Iraq and he got hurt in the leg and it festered and it's like, he's about to die. So in his like delirium, he saw somebody touching his leg and he saw that he kind of woke up and he said, who are you? He said, I'm Jesus, son of Mary, healing you. And this guy wakes up, his leg is completely healed. The guy became Catholic, escaped, escaped Iraq and living in hiding because, you know, it's not taken very kindly when you convert. So like the Lord is always working in people. So that's why being prayerful, being hopeful is just so important because he is going to do his good work. So now let's go and talk about, let's talk about Islam a little bit. So do Muslims and Christians believe in the same God? Again, it's in the Lumen Gentium and it's one of the documents of the Vatican too. It says, together with us, Muslims adored one merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. So this was a very important sentence along with another one, Nostra Tate, again in Vatican too. So the thing is, yes they do worship the same God because they profess one God, right? He's the creator of all things visible and invisible, omniscient, omnipotent and, oh my goodness, I did not, I don't know. Yeah, sorry Lord, going to get struck here in the sanctuary calling God impotent, omnipotent, sorry, and omnipresent, right? So these are all the attributes we believe. So, and I know, can you skip? It's like, I'm so sorry. This is just, I can't unsee it anymore. So, I know, right? It's not my fault. It's not Turkish or English. This is as much as I can do. So we all believe in these attributes, right? So they believe all of these and you need to remember most Muslims, they don't read the Qur'an, they don't read the Hadith. It's a religion that's passed down to you from your parents, from the, you know, Imam. So like, you're not, even when they read the Qur'an, you're supposed to read it in Arabic and if Arabic isn't your, you know, mother tongue, then you're kind of just reciting this stuff that you have no idea what it is about. So because the Lord had put this desire, when you take notes, please fix, fix my awful, awful typo there. But because the Lord put his, you know, it says in the Romans that he put his law in our hearts, right? We are all born, even if, you know, we are in this remote African tribe or clueless, you know, Muslim country, we are all born with a desire to worship him. So like, one of the things Bishop Sheen said that, so it's like, if the complete truth is a circle, every religion has a little bit of it, right? So if it's 360 degrees, you know, I don't know, Hinduism had three degrees, right? You know, so they all, because we are all born with that desire because we have the same Creator. So I think most Muslims, in their ignorance, direct their worship to our Lord. So, you know, in that sense, it's yes, right? We believe in the same God. But the problem becomes when it's like, it's a little bit no too, like, it's a very qualified yes. So you need to be very careful. It's a no because it's like this. So you go to, two people are talking about a man named John. And one person has like, oh, I know John. He's six foot tall. He's a brunette. He's a big beard. And he's a drunkard and beats his wife. And this other guy says, oh, I know John too. He's six foot tall, brunette with a tall beard, but he's the kindest person I've ever met. And he's a wonderful husband and a wife. I mean, no, husband, I'm sorry. I should go listen to the guest woke speech right after this. And he's a wonderful husband. So it's like, which one it is? Is it like, okay, you know, they're talking about the same person, but the person they have like opposite witnesses about the character, even though they get the physical stuff, right? So I think that is what the problem is with between Islam and Christianity, God of Christianity. And we will talk about the differences, but this section in the Vatican do to together with us, they adore the one merciful God. It kind of pushed a lot of Catholics to believe that, hey, we all believe this in the same God like, why should we go evangelize? Why should we even like bother them with this? You know, it's a lot of work to go all the way there and talk to them and then possibly get killed. And, you know, these are kind of hard, hard choices. So I mean, then we really drop the ball same Francis is not happy about it. But the thing is, it's not just it's the eternal life, right? It's not just the person's eternal faith. Like, I don't think I would be here. I was a suicidal atheist when I met these Protestant missionaries. I don't think I would be literally here if I didn't, you know, if Christ didn't completely change my life. And all you need to do read a few conversion stories to see how much the Lord completely transformed people's lives for the better on this earth, right? So it's not just, you know, the afterlife or eternal, which is obviously very important. But also like, he makes our lives for the better on this side. And look at the societies. I mean, it's funny because like, since I moved here, I look at these feminists, I'm like, you're not going to say anything about the stuff that's happening in the Muslim countries to women. No, it's very anti feminist. But what they don't understand is women have women have this many rights because of Christianity. It's not because we have progressed, or we have lived long enough that we have become better, like no, look at everybody everywhere else. No, but nowhere except the post Christian countries, women have this much right, this many rights, because we believe that we are all created equal before the Lord. And we have equal men and women have equal dignity. We have completely different but equally important roles in the family and in the society. You'll look at these awful medieval times and look at all these, you know, abysses along with the abets and everybody else changing the course of history. You look at Catherine of Siena giving, you know, a piece of her mind to the popes, right? Like this just happened before because of Christianity. You talk about slavery. You think slavery is extinct because we became more civilized, like we don't live in a Star Trek world. Like as technology advances, we are all going to be post-religion and sterile and perfect. No, slavery doesn't exist anymore. It's because of Christ, because we are all equal before the Lord. I mean, who were the most famous abolitionists? They were Christians, that they believed that there was human dignity and, you know, God's own image and likeness in every person. Like basically everywhere else, slave labor either legally or illegally continues in all Muslim countries. I mean, look at China, you know, supposedly in a communist country everybody is equal but apparently some are more equal than others and there is, you know, de facto slavery in these communist countries. So that's what is not seen is that Christ, Christianity transforms entire societies. It's not just the person's life. So what you're saying when you don't want to evangelize, well, you're not good enough. The Muslim woman who gets raped and killed because of that, you're not good enough to live, you know, hear the gospel. You just live a Muslim life and you will be okay. No, they won't be okay. Women suffer terribly in Muslim countries and men too, you know, in different ways. So preaching the gospel not changes, but it changes the society and the world eventually. That's why it's too selfish to keep it to yourself. So hence the universalism, it's my piece about it. I am not very opinionated about it, can you tell? So the biggest difference, so Islam, you know what, I think maybe I should talk about this after that, but one of the biggest differences is that Islam denies the Trinity. So, so, so Mohammed claims that their book, if you're not familiar, their book, the Quran, came from Allah, like not the way inspired by the Holy Spirit, but literally dictated, like he would go into this seizure. So I think he was like half epileptic, half demon influenced, right? So he was going to these like seizures, lose himself and he would wake up, oh, this is what Allah told me. And then like it's written down. So it's like literal dictation from Allah. So it's not inspired, right? So, but he lived in a very polytheistic society. So they had, you know, you know, the box that they, you know, they kaba. So it was filled with idols. So he just went in there and cleaned it up. So he was very afraid of polytheism. But he was illiterate and he heard a lot of stories from Jews and Christians. So if you read the Quran, which is not like very readable, like the Bible, it's just bits and pieces. It feels like a broken bits and pieces homilies and it's very hard to read. But if you like some penance and like to read it, you will realize that there are bits and pieces of stories from especially the Old Testament put together to make his point. Does it make sense? So he's trying to establish a continuity here. And he says that it was Archangel Gabriel that dictated the Quran to him. So this is what Islam teaches. So Allah, you know, so I'm referring the Muslim God as Allah just for clarity, but Christians in the Middle East, they call God Allah. But I'm just trying to help differentiate. So Allah sent Moses and Zebra like the part of the Old Testament and those evil Jews corrupted it. And then Allah sent Jesus and the angel, which is the New Testament. And the evil Christians corrupted it. And then Allah said, Muhammad, and he's the seal of the prophets. And Quran was like kept pristine in the most amazing way. And because Arabic is the dictated language, that's the only way to get browner points. So the book itself is very sacred. So he was very afraid of polytheism. And he didn't understand the Trinity. And there is like good good reasons to believe that he was he was surrounded by Nestorians who were kicked out of Asia Minor and they ended up in Saudi Arabia. So like there was a serious confusion about the Trinity in him. So what like there's this is this is the verse from the Quran. Oh Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, take me and my mother as gods, apart from God. So it's like, so it's God, the father, Jesus, and Mary. So like there was serious confusion and and Jesus in return, he says, to thee be glory. It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, thou knowest it, knowing what it what is within my soul. So the God knows what's in Jesus' soul. He's mere human, right? And I know not what is within thy soul because like Jesus is mere human. How can he possibly know what's in God in God? So what when they imagine Trinity, it's not like the way the Catholic Church teaches, but it's more like three actual deities like the idols. So and so it's a big no-no to Trinity. And of course, incarnation is completely unthinkable, right? Because Allah is infinitely good, not good, infinitely holy. And like Islam is a little nostic in that sense that human beings are like inherently kind of on the evil bad side, right? They're kind of dirty and unclean. The same is true with like sex. It's like they have to purify themselves right after after it. So like there is this like uncleanness and disgustingness about human beings. And it's like to imagine, to think that God will become one of us, it's just like it just brings them from these heights. Like it's completely unthinkable, blasphemous. They start, you know, kind of ripping their their clothes. So obviously they're against Trinity, the incarnation. And of course, you know, crucifixion and resurrection, which is odd because I'm like, you know, a lot of prophets died. Like why are you so against the crucifixion? So again, Muhammad is kind of a messed up guy, right? And he was persecuted in his hometown because they're thinking, hey, aren't you the Muhammad who was, you know, who grew up next to us? Like, why are you acting like you're the leader of this big religion? So he was persecuted there. And so he really identified with Jesus. But he was very worldly. Like if you read the Hadith and Muhammad's life, he'll realize that, you know, he loved women. He loved the money, the power and all that stuff. So he's looking at Jesus. I'm very much like him. But his end wasn't good. So he couldn't imagine that Allah would let his prophet die in an awful manner, right? So because he he wanted to be always victory. Victory is. And again, because it's a very worldly religion, he said, if you're a good Muslim, Allah is on your side and you will never lose anything. So that's why he kind of changed the crucifixion and resurrection. But obviously they are they are very much against it. Okay, so those are the we worship the same God. So it's a very, very qualified. Yes. So when you say yes, you need to be very careful because the way they see God is just completely different than ours. So the major difference is I will talk about what Saint Thomas calls survival fear and filial fear. We kind of touched upon this a little bit. But again, I think it's very important if you want to evangelize Muslims to understand this concept. So survival fear is the slaves fear of a master who would punish him. So I took this class about history of the American South. And there was just a bunch of, you know, obviously, Americans taking this class with me. And one of the things that we read that the the northerners didn't understand one, the slaves didn't rise up against their masters. And I'm thinking, I don't think you understand slavery, my man. Like I don't think you understand how growing up in bondage and with fear, and you like it paralyzes you on the inside. I opened my, I opened my book from Islam, the Christ with with this anecdote, I was a little girl, so six, seven years old. And, you know, we kind of your taught our prayers and memorized everything. And one of the things we taught were never to ever try to imagine Allah in like, like picture what he may look like, right, you know. And because like you would, you know, you would go burn in hell and you will be struck and all that stuff. So one night I'm laying in bed, I'm thinking like what Allah would look like. And I'm thinking this like cloudy kind of shape with rainbow eyes. And then suddenly I was struck with fear. I'm like six, seven years old, at least seven because I was going to school. And I'm struck with this fear of punishment. Like I was so afraid I couldn't sleep that night. I wake up to go to school. And we lived by this creek and there were these huge boulders there. Like, oh, those are the children who try to imagine Allah and I'm going to become one of them. So like four days I left with, I felt with this fear every time I passed the creek, thinking that I'm going to become one of the boulders because like you're, you're kind of this intense fear from an early age, like a slave. So that's the servile fear. And it's like St. Thomas says it's not necessarily bad. Like I have a toddler, which she's this big. And I told her no, don't touch the oven. She's looking at me as like, she's really much bigger than me and she can, you know, she can take me. So I'm going to listen to her. If she doesn't, I'll slap her hand because guess what? I don't want her to burn on the stove. Right? So that is servile fear. She doesn't understand, oh, my mother loves me and she doesn't want me to get burned. All she understands is like, this really big lady told me now. And it's really staying a little bit when I hit them. So like that's the servile fear. So it's the beginning, right? Like when we say the act of contrition, we say we fear hell, but more, you know, we are afraid of disappointing you. So fear of hell is imperfect contrition, right? That's servile because because we don't want to be punished by this all powerful just being. But if we filial fear, I don't know if the, is it the next one? Filial fear is what it needs to turn into. It is the fear of a good child who fear dishonoring a loving parent, which is completely different, right? When you think about in nature. So my toddler is going to, you know, hopefully grow up to say, oh, my mother told me to not to touch the stove top because she knows that I'm going to be burned. Or I was talking to my 11 year old and he did, he did something he wasn't supposed to. And I said, I'm going to tell daddy. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. And as, you know, as kids say, I'm like, you know, your daddy is so much more lenient and forgiving than me because like I'm the harder parent. My husband is like this big marine teddy bear kind of guy, but he's scared looking. And when he does the daddy voice, it's like, sometimes I'm like, okay, what did I do? You know, so, but they are more afraid of him because they are so afraid of dishonoring this father because they don't want his disapproval. You know, I wish I had that power. But yeah, I was, you know, when I tried to scare them with my voice, it comes out as a shriek and they're like, stop talking. So that's the biggest thing, right? That's the perfect contrition. When we mortally sin, we are not like, oh man, I'm going to burn in hell. You're like, no, I'm sorry, Lord. You know, I'm so sorry. I tried to do better, but it didn't happen. That is the contrition we want. That's the filial fear because we just, we just don't want to disappoint. We don't want to disappoint our heavenly father. And that's a big difference in understanding of who God is. Like on the one side, we're talking about this guy, John, who is six foot tall, brunette and abusive, right? Like God is very capricious and he's a God of vengeance. And he's a God of, like they say, he's a God of vengeance and mercy. And I'm like, I don't think they go very well together, you know, and he puts good and evil. And if he, like, if, and he tempts you to do something, to do bad stuff. So it's like the Zoroastrians. I don't know if you're familiar, familiar with that religion. They have a good God, everything good comes from. And they, they have an evil God that everything evil comes from. So Allah is like, combine them, like combine them both. You don't know, and you can't kind of attribute, you can't even say he is all good because then you're limiting God. For instance, sin is a sin in Islam because Allah says so, right? It's completely different understanding of sin. And in Christianity, we call something sin because it's bad for us, right? It's an absence of goodness. It takes away our creation. And God cannot look upon sin because he's unable. So you're limiting him, but he's now because he's all pure. He's pure and good, and he can't look upon sin. So it's like on the one hand, you have this John who's an abusive husband and a dad. And on the, on the one hand, you have this John, they seem to look the same, but a wonderful loving and caring father and husband. So that is an important difference between servile fear and filial fear. And it's so hard to bring, take Muslims out of this mindset of servile fear and make them accept, accept God as, as their father, because that's like unthinkable. And within that, they are so convinced and, you know, that only Muslims will go to heaven because, you know, everybody else is, is, is unbelievers. So in, so they are surrounded with this immense servile fear. And they also believe that for you to go to heaven, you need to be Muslim. So they can, but in to be a Muslim, all you need to do is to say the Shahada, which is the, you know, Allah is one God, Muhammad is his prophet and ambassador and all that stuff. And then you're Muslim. It doesn't require you to do anything else basically. Whereas in Christianity, the Lord demands that you amend your life. You know, it's like this constant struggle towards the good. It sounds really hard. And it is hard as we know that we fall and pick up again. But this is what a loving father does, right? He wants you to get better. He wants to be closer to him and he wants to have a better life. Like one of the, if they ask a bunch of, I think in Pakistan, Pakistan is school children, no, India, India, I'm sorry, Indian school children where their mother Teresa would go to heaven because, you know, even India, she was really well known because she's helped so many people. And the kids say no, since she was not a Muslim. And the teacher says, but she saved thousands of lives, right? Like, why can't she go? Well, she wants to be rewarded for that in this world, but one can't enter heaven until he, she says the Shahada. So evil Muslims, you can be an awful evil Muslim who said the Shahada and you may burn in hell for, I don't know, a couple thousand years, then you will eventually go to heaven. But if you're not a Muslim, then there's no way you can go to heaven. And they will do whatever it takes for your eternal, you know, destiny to take you there. And if that means that they're going to make you say the Shahada at the end of a sword, so be it. That's why they don't care, right? They're doing you a favor in their minds. But again, it's like this combination of extreme conviction and the survival fear, right? And that's the biggest, biggest difference. And of course, now, Scott Hannell always tells this anecdote that he was, he was having an argument, discussion with a, with an Imam, and he referred to God as God, the Father. And the guy just, you know, he said, no. And if you're going to refer to, you know, God is God the Father, we can't talk, they can't even fathom God as Father. Like it's unthinkable to them because like you're bringing him to your, to your level, right? Like it's whereas in Christianity, I think one of the best descriptions of who God is, is the story of the prodigal son. So we have this God, right? He's a great Father. But he's, you know, he's just like this kid comes, he's like, I want my inheritance. I want to go away. He's just and he gave us freedom to choose. So it's like, here's your inheritance. And we leave. And what does he do? He waits. He probably the prodigal son. I mean, God doesn't need to pray, but he, Father, the, the father of the prodigal son prayed for his son, or it's like, you know, goodness. And so that he can return, return home. And in his love, he waits and he waits and he loves his son so much, even after he kind of spent all this money, squanders this inheritance and comes back, you know, stinky and smelly. He still loves him so much that he opens his mind. It's like, he's a wonderful father who's full of love. And this is unthinkable for Muslims to bring them to this place. It's so hard to, you know, just praying God, you know, our father, it's like, no, you're making God so small. You're making him dirty and unclean and so like, impotent by making, by making him human. It's like this ultimate for them. It's like, it's, it's an immense insult. So they just, they cannot think about it. And another thing is St. Thomas says this, that it's, it's like very carnal religion, right? This very, you know, Muhammad was really obsessed with women. So when you say God, the father, they think, oh, it's like Zeus, right? Came down to earth and, you know, have intercourse with women. So they cannot like, again, their understanding of imagination of God is so limited that, no, he can make things happen without, you know, like he is God, like you're limiting him to be, you know, to have, having to do, do this. So like when they think God the father, they're like, no, no, no, he didn't have sex with anybody. I'm like, of course he didn't. Are you crazy? Like, but they have very hard time on understanding that. So they're thinking, oh, God must have taken a wife if, you know, if he begot, if he begot a son. And another thing that makes this God so like unfathered, like an approachable is that he like, he doesn't love anybody. Like this idea, even like, if you try to talk to Muslims about love, it's, you will realize that they're mostly talking about liking something like, oh, I like eating pineapples and tacos or something, right? So it's very like, kind of weak and sensual and pleasurable, not like this love that we feel deep within our souls. So like in Turkish, the word for I love you and I love bananas is the same exact same work, right? Like, I mean, you know, like you will say I like and enjoy bananas. I mean, you will say love, but you wouldn't mean in English too that I love bananas like I like my, I love my wife, right? So it's like a very weak kind of love meaning. So of course, saying that God is love is again limits him, it's, you know, all that stuff, not good. But when you, when you read the Quran, you realize that he doesn't, Allah doesn't love anybody unconditionally. It's just he loves some people and he doesn't love others. So he kind of picks and chooses. It depends on your performance, right? So like his love or favor, I would say his favor is dependent upon our performance, how well they are doing. For instance, he loves the virtues, the patient, those who keep clean, the God, the one who fears God, those who trust them, the just and those who fight in his way. But he hates the unbelievers and he makes their heart, he turns their heart from him. So they, they never can choose to follow him. So does it make sense? So his love or favor is so conditional, whereas like we are, we are like prodigal sons, we can never, ever earn God's love because we're so limited and little, but God, the father is like that father. He gives his love unconditionally. You know, he loves, leaves us in the like, in the pit and muck of our sin. You know, he just sees through all that dirtiness and yuckiness and then he loves us despite everything because we are his sons. He loves the, you know, he loves the, the Muslims who like reject them so awfully. I mean, he's of course grieved about their sin, right? Like there is, we say this, you know, hate this and love the sinner. And of course he's grieved so much about their sin. And you know, if you are, you're a parent, you know, how hard it is to see your kid fail even like stab your toe when they're little, let alone, you know, fail in such a, in such a big, big way. So there is just this huge contrast between this, this God who is really kind of temperamental and capricious and then God the father who just loves us so unconditionally. So now, why does it matter that we know about this, right? She fell asleep. I know it. Wake up Meg. I'm almost done. Hang in there. So why does it matter, right? So as I said, universalism did a number and missionary efforts in Muslim countries is almost nonexistent. But at the same time, you go online and Muslims are hard at it. And they're winning souls either, like, you know, my own country, Turkey, become a lot more radicalized since, since I left. Actually, my Christian friends told me not to ever come because I could be arrested. So like they are very hard at work. And they're becoming more, because the way the world is going secularism is not attractive to anybody, attractive to anybody. And the many souls are lost. So most Muslim countries, they're choosing to become radicalized because Islam offers a sense of purpose in a community. And then remember how God hates the unbelievers. So open doors is, I didn't mention it, open doors is a Protestant, Protestant group that they record and track persecution around the globe, persecution of Christians. And seven out of top 10 countries, they're Muslim. Christians are, you know, murdered. You know, of course, they're ostracized by the society. They're imprisoned. You know, they're just in house prison. They're imprisoned. I got an email from a, from somebody in Saudi Arabia. He's so interested. He's like, he's convinced that Christianity is the truth. So he read everything. So he goes, he tries to go to a Catholic church and they say, no, no, no, you're going to get us in trouble. You can't come in. So he goes back home the following day. The police come to his workplace and tell him, we saw you trying to go into a Catholic church. You will be in trouble. So he's like terrified. So he knows the truth, but he's extremely terrified. Even, you know, he's like, what do I do? I'm like, I don't know. Right? Like, I mean, how do you become Catholic without priests? And how can I tell him? I'm like, oh, regardless, you go find a Catholic, you know, priests and get baptized. Like, how can I even like offer that to him? This is the situation in most countries. Like in Turkey, Turkey is by far the most liberal Muslim country. And as I said, it's just become worse since I left, but still it's by far. But and I, I, I experienced soft persecution in the sense that, you know, I lost friends and I knew that I could never get a government job because as soon as you become a Christian, you're like a traitor to your country. So it's nothing life threatening. But while I was living there, so there were three Protestants who were running a bookstore in the southeastern part of Turkey. And these two guys came in the morning when they opened the bookstore and slit their throats because they were trying to evangelize, you know, spread the faith. Two of them were Turks and one was a German citizen. So stuff, even like this happens, even places like in Turkey. And a Catholic priest was murdered. This youth came and shot him in the back of his head. Again, this is in Turkey, one of the, you know, the most, you know, free Muslim countries because this youth was, he came and shot him while he was praying because he was a Catholic priest, right? So it's, it's very hard soil. Muslim lands are like their spiritual element. Again, praying and fasting is so important. And hearts are so hardened because of a God like this, right? This is, you know, you, you know, if you know, if you know people who have abusive parents and have like, that trickles down, right? It's not, you know, they say traumatized people traumatized. So it's like that. If you have a Allah is your father, that's all you hear your whole life, this master slave relationship. All you want to become a master, you want to try to become a master of your wife, your kids. Does it make sense? So this whole society is, you know, it's almost inclined towards violence. Like if you ask people, like, is it okay to kill unbelievers? Most people, I'm telling you, most Muslims wouldn't even consider killing anybody, but they would be hard found to condemn people who kill the unbelievers. Does it make sense? So it's like, as long as somebody else breaks the eggs, like, you know, they wouldn't do it themselves. So this is that kind of a religion. And it's like, it's a very, very hard soil. And again, Muslim countries like the transformative power of Christ. And, you know, how did ISIS come to be? Because I thought we were, you know, all advanced and we were moving post this, you know, all this religion stuff. But here, you know, ISIS came to be and it didn't stay there, right? They don't, it doesn't stay in their own land. It affects the whole world. So we have this responsibility to preach the gospel and help change lives eternally and the society that they live in. And so again, we talked about it's extremely difficult to evangelize in Muslim countries. Like people come, you know, the missionaries who evangelized me, they didn't see any fruit for years and years. It's such a life changing decision that people are, it's very hard. So it's very hard work and you don't see the fruit. So it's not like, you know, going to, in a way, South America and then kind of try to bring back people to the faith. And you, you know, you may not see a lot of growth, but you will see it in a few years. But in Turkey, it's like this almost like this thankless job. And we talked about the persecution. But, you know, like Curtis said, yet there is thirst for truth, right? The Lord is calling people whether we are there or not. He's calling people and calling people. So, and, you know, people are reaching out. So there is that thirst for truth. And if we want to kind of give that to people, we need to understand Islam. It doesn't mean you have to be an expert on it, but just know enough to ask these questions and to bring people to the, to the edge of questioning. So what do we do? Going forward, like, what can we do? Okay, we learned about this. Even if you do nothing, we can take example from Saint Therese's life. Just please pray and fast. And there are, there are, again, this Open Doors is a great Protestant organization that they had, they assign a fasting and prayer day through the year for each Muslim country. So it's great. Or if you could just, you know, make a commitment, say one rosary a month for the conversion of Muslims and our lady will hear that. And I believe that she's going to pull and our lady of Guadalupe in one of the, in the Muslim countries and she's like, you guys don't want to come here. Let me take care of that. You know, I'm hoping she's going to do that. And in courage, I gave a talk at the University of the nearest seminary and there were bunch of seminarians who were very, very interested about going to Muslim countries. So encourage the missionary effort and, you know, pray that the Lord will bring priests and the lady to these countries so they can change hearts and touch, hearts and lives. Then I said stay in touch. And I forgot to bring cards and things, but my email address is dadyalittleatgmail.com. So it's easy to remember. And I skipped one, which is more important, most important one. So there's a lot, there isn't a lot of online efforts. Oh, I think, am I out of time? Am I chit chatting too much? Okay, five minutes. Okay. Wow, really? Sorry. I wanted to have a question and answer. So support online and in person efforts. If you know missionaries who go to Muslim countries or like I am about to, can you pull up that website, Meg? Like I am about to launch this website. And there are a few others. There are very, very few websites who are directed against evangelizing Muslims. And she's going to put it up. It's becatholic.com. Anyway, it's not completely ready yet. But it's trying to explain the Catholic faith to Muslims, people who grew up Muslims in that survival fear. Or explain the trinity in a way that it's not like, you know, God, old man, and Jesus, young man, and Holy Spirit, right? That just doesn't quite resonate with them. So that's one of the websites. If you can remember, I will put it up on my website, which is dadyalittle.com. And so if you can spread the word.