 forward to this. We're going to be, we're going to be waiting for, we don't have, we're going to be waiting for Tomas who's with Hyperledger and he's our lead at Hyperledger and he's going to be live streaming this on YouTube as well. It's going to be recorded on YouTube, on the Hyperledger YouTube channel. So let's take a, we'll just wait a few more minutes here and see what, see who shows up. Lots of, lots of people participate after the fact and get into the recordings of this. Yeah. So there is, yeah, you know, it's, I think the, with Zoom, you get invited to 1400 different Zooms a day. And if you, if you, if you had to attend everyone you were invited to, you probably wouldn't have a chance to do anything. Right. No lunch, no dinner, no breakfast. So it's, yeah, but you have, so having the ability to, to record them on video is, is pretty awesome. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? Siobhan Porcus. Did we pronounce that directly? It's Siobhan. It's a very Irish, Irish name. Very nice. Are you in Ireland now? No, I'm in Canada, actually, in Ontario. I'm not Irish. My mom just likes me. Oh, you're my, oh, very nice, very nice. Where are you in, where are you in Ontario? What area if you don't mind me asking? I'm a couple of hours north of Toronto. Okay. Just kind of customer skokas. Okay, good. Good, good. I'm in the calling, I'm in the calling wood area. Oh, great. Yeah, I'm like great by Barry. You're by Barry. Okay. Okay. I'm just, we're in Thornberry here just north of, just north of calling a few minutes. Oh yeah. Oh, nice to meet you. Could you pronounce your name again for me one more time? Siobhan. Siobhan. Okay. That's good. Thank you for coming and attending today. And there's Tomas. Good morning. Good afternoon, Tomas. Good morning, Brett. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. And good morning to Cheryl as well. Oh, good morning, Cheryl. Hi. I'm just staying for a few minutes. I wanted to get an idea about your talking about and then I'm back to all my workload. But thank you for having me. Yes. Well, thank you for coming. I'm just going to go off camera because my Wi-Fi is not the best, but I'm going to start with the live stream in a couple of minutes. Yeah. Okay. You let me know when that's up and I'll start with my intro here. Thank you, Tomas. Sure. Brett, could you give me the host permissions please? Oh, sure. Did you get that? I'm hitting the make host on the participants. Yeah. Okay. Is you not getting that? No. But let me just try to log in with different accounts. I'll be back in a second. Sure. Randy, you could probably start with some of the housekeeping here while Tomas is doing that. Okay. Okay. Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good day. Depending on wherever you are in the world. Thank you so much for coming and attending today. And I'm going to be posting our code of conduct in the chat as well as our antitrust policy. Okay. Statement. Also along with, we ask that if you could please follow us on LinkedIn. So I will post that link as well. Also, you can follow us on Discord as well. Shall I explain about the drawing now, Brett? Yeah. No, you go ahead to introduce that. Okay. Two participants in today's Zoom event will be selected to receive an autographed copy of Karen Kilmore's recent published book, Blockchain Tethered AI. Another five participants will receive a PDF version of this must read so that we have your consent and contact information. Those who are interested in the drawing, please use the Zoom chat and send a direct message to me, Randy Givens, with your name and email address. I will add your name to the list. In the coming days, we will use artificial intelligence to select seven winners and you will be notified by email. The list and associated names will be used for, will not be used for any other purpose. And Brett, that's all that I have for housekeeping. That's excellent. Thank you very much, Randy. I gave, Tomas, I gave that. It asked me if I wanted to give you permission, I answered yes. But we're going to, I'm recording it here now. Yeah, maybe that's the problem, Brett. Maybe if that's the case, I'll keep trying, and if not, I'll just upload it later so it's still on YouTube. Okay, that's great. Thank you so much. Excellent. Okay, everyone, welcome. Thank you, Randy, for that. And hello and good day to everyone. Today, we're going to delve into the hot button issue of artificial intelligence as it relates to the entertainment industry. It's a good time to discuss the problem and any possible solutions we can arrive at in the future. I think it's a good time to discuss how we could help the entertainment industry from our hyper ledger perspective. By the looks of things with the writers and actors on strike, we could be out of movie and TV content for a while. For some that means we'd actually have to talk to each other after dinner. It could be a start of something good, who knows, but today we're here to discuss how media and entertainment can build trust in AI using blockchain. Artificial intelligence has been used in the entertainment industry for some time, in animation, special effects, production, etc. AI has been adopted the same way other technologies are adopted and used to bring efficiencies to the business side of Hollywood. The current Hollywood writer's strike is about a number of things. One is protection from AI and its potential to replace jobs. Some of the concerns that industry members have with AI are that they may lose control of their likenesses or share credit or lose credit to machines. In some ways, these writers' concerns exist outside of AI as well as protections exist for intellectual property rights now. These topics go beyond the scope of our talk today, but we'll pick up the IP aspect in the near future. So how does AI feel about a reputation as a big meanie and the destructor of all things? Well, we decided to ask AI directly about whether the entertainment industry should be concerned about it. Not surprisingly, AI was not shy about warning us mortals. It replied, yes, the entertainment industry should indeed be concerned with the advancements in artificial intelligence. AI has the potential to impact various aspects of the industry in both positive and potentially disruptive ways. AI gave us eight pretty good detailed pointers on where we should expect disruption. I won't give you the details of all of them, but here are their headings. Content creation and automation. We know about that. That's a big topic right now with the writer's guild. Personalized content delivery. This is the studio. They're going to be benefiting from that if they're not already, which they probably are already. Data-driven insights. Again, this is information that's available within seconds of any online streaming activity, et cetera. Virtual and augmented reality. This is obviously for production. Corporate and ownership. A big issue right now. IP rights, et cetera. Ethical considerations. Another big issue. Job disruption and innovation and creativity. We know that AI is going to help writers in some ways. It's going to help all participants in the entertainment industry, but can we actually harness it and protect the industry from its evils? Then we decided to pull one of the smartest in the AI industry and one that we could actually have a human-like conversation with. That's our friend Karen Kilroy. Karen is an AI researcher, author of a number of blockchain books, a full-stack AI and blockchain developer, an IBM and AI champion. I won't go too far back, but to demonstrate how connected Karen is to the industry, she led the team and won the 2017 IBM Watson Guild. Karen Kilroy's most recent book, Blockchain Tether AI, is what some participants today will receive. I think if you want to participate in this, and from a privacy perspective, we're going to ask that you send your name and your email address directly to Randy Givens on the chat, and that will give us the opportunity to contact you. We're going to run your names through AI and have them select the winners here. Hello, Karen. It's good to see you again. It's great to see you too, Brett. Thank you for having me. Well, we're all wondering just how all of us, including all of Hollywood right now, are wondering how we can get AI to work for us in how the entertainment industry can get AI to work for them. Tell us a little bit about your book Blockchain Tethered AI, why you wrote it and what it's all about. Sure. Blockchain Tethered AI, what it involves is making AI and machine learning so it's trackable and traceable. There's no mystery as to what went in it or where it came from. What we do is we break it down into each element of what creates the artificial intelligence and machine learning, all the data, all the algorithms, all the people that are involved, and we make sure that there's identities that are traceable and that then there is a tamper evident audit trail. That's where hyper ledger fabric comes in because anything that is done through treating the workings of AI as a supply chain also leaves the trail on hyper ledger fabric. That's very good. We happen to have also one of the developers from the hyper ledger fabric team, Janish. Would you like to say hello and could you give us a brief description on how difficult the challenge this has become in your view as a developer on the building of fabric, hyper ledger fabric and its application to AI. Go ahead Janish. Yeah, hello everyone. I've been working on this hyper ledger like it's been four years plus working in this hyper ledger foundation. Mostly I've been working on this hyper ledger fabric and working with this hyper ledger fabric with AI. It has been a challenging one and it was also most exciting journey working on this BTA project. We have carried out different there were different challenges that we had faced and we used by the help of Karen and order our teams. We managed to get this blocks in and with the AI. Yeah. Excellent and are you having fun with that? Yeah, it's quite a lot of things to learn. Good stuff. Thank you, Janish. Yeah, thanks. Karen, in your book, why did you choose hyper ledger fabric as your blockchain platform? I became familiar with hyper ledger fabric way back in 2017 when I started learning about AI. It was kind of both things at the same time. I was going to Mark Anthony Morris's meet-ups in Austin, which were excellent. Anyway, I learned about it then. We have been using hyper ledger fabric at Kilroy blockchain for quite a few years ever since then, really. We have a few applications that are in production that use hyper ledger fabric for schools. We have Flow, which is a forms management system for K-12 schools. Then we also have Casey, which is a behavior intervention system for K-12 schools. Both of those systems use hyper ledger fabric to leave an audit trail. We have been using it for years and knock on wood. We have never had a hiccup. Even though we may have had even other variations of hyper ledger products that maybe might have been a better fit, our team was so small, we wanted to take what we knew work and implement that alongside AI. Excellent. Karen, the entertainment industry wants to put guardrails on AI. Will they be able to put a saddle on this fucking Bronco or will their efforts stifle innovation? What do you think about that? Well, I think that maybe kind of think about it differently than the old ways of having to watch for your rights to be violated and then to chase after them because, I don't know, I had a very good friend named Steve Popovich. He was a record industry executive who went to court with Sony Music for years and years to try to get his rights for Meatloaf bad out of hell. Meatloaf also went to court, but long story short, he died before he got anything. Even though it was clearly his rights were violated. To me, that's not the answer. Litigation isn't the answer. Instead, I believe it's time to really flip the script and make it so the creatives, the writers, the actors, the producers, the musicians own their own digital likeness and productions. They own their own AI and then they decide what the distributors get paid and the brands, the legacy brands, if they need to use those. I think something like Hyperledger Fabric is just so solid and reliable, it can actually be used as a way to keep track of who owns what, who has what kind of share, who has what kind of royalties coming to them, really the whole thing. I envision even performers having wallets with their property in it that shows what they have and what percentage they have and what money they have come. That's interesting. You have an effort on going for South by Southwest. How is that project going? Oh, that's really a lot of fun. We are in competition for a spot to present at South by Southwest and I actually have a few of my fellow presenters on the line here, Ethan Kuehl and Orson Weems and I'm not sure if Melissa Taylor is on too, but I know Ethan and Orson are on here. What we've done is we've gotten together here in Northwest Arkansas. Orson is from the music initiative, the music education initiative and that's a nonprofit. I met Orson because he was out teaching people, hey, there's all these productions and there's nobody to do the work, so he was out teaching and then Ethan is a senior data scientist from Walmart and Melissa Taylor is the manager of the Center for Innovation at Fayetteville Public Library. We have put our heads together and we're trying to figure out how to flip the script and how to make this all work. We've already done a series of workshops to get some community input on how creators might get paid for their work in advance, but what we hope to do is take this workshop to South by Southwest and really get some public participation and figuring out exactly how this needs to work. Well, what's it looking like? Are you getting the votes you need to move it forward? I think so. We're hovering. I'm not sure that the page rank shows you where you're at, but we do pop up to the top once in a while. We have really good LinkedIn shares. I noticed we've had like 85 or so LinkedIn shares and that's one thing we can see is that number, but maybe one of my colleagues might throw that link into the chat so people know how to vote for us on South by Southwest. That would be fine. Throw that in there and let's see if we can't get you some votes. I'm interested in moving this discussion to what the building blocks would look like like for us to get blockchain to address the entertainment industry concerns. We have, from a technological perspective, understanding how blockchain works. We were using data, so we have acoustic and video fingerprinting, which is already used in the industry, but in terms of satisfying the needs of writers and actors who are concerned about AI duplicating their works or AI expanding on their works, using hashing, a perceptual hashing, which is a fingerprinting algorithm, and also cryptographic hashing, which identifies exact matches. Persexual hashing matches closely to what some type of media or audio might be. What are your thoughts on how we could build something using Hyperledger in using this data that can get created by the fingerprinting process, as well as how do you think it might benefit actors and writers, etc. Do you think it might alleviate some of their concerns? Your thoughts on that? Sure. It's possible to not only identify where the data comes from, but also identify it after it's out in the wild. There are organizations led by C2PA that it was started during the big misinformation surge during the political campaigns a few years back, where a bunch of organizations got together and they came up with standards for identifying misinformation and faked content. These are big organizations like BBC and Microsoft. Then there's a smaller implementation called the CAI, which is the content authenticity initiative. That actually allows the signing of files and the claiming of credentials within individual files. Let's say someone uses an AI to generate something, and it has particular attributes with it, then those attributes can actually be stamped into the end product. When it is run through a verifier, you can just see who owns it and trace it back. That's one thing that can be done. When you combine something like that with blockchain, then you make sure that it's tamper evident and that no one has changed the signatures on the files or you can at least get back and say, look, this was signed at this particular point. Do you think there's any progress being made on the IP rights to any AI-generated content? My understanding is that there is no copyright. It can't be copyrighted. What is your understanding of that? AI generates content and there's no copyright to it. If AI generates content based on someone else's work, with that not, no, you're not a lawyer, but just your exposure to AI, that content, would that not fall back into the domain of the original content creator in your view? I don't. I think copyrights are just going to be turned on their ear, because I think that it's, you know, back to my point about my friend Steve Popovich, you know, copyright implies that you're going to try to litigate to me, as opposed to just making sure that the ownership and the direct payment always goes to the artist and I guess, you know, I lost my point of what I was going to exactly say about it because somebody started mowing outside. But the point is, really, that it all needs to be reexamined because you can't tell he made something. It's like having soup and, you know, figuring out who grew the cucumbers or who grew the zucchini that went into it, you know, it's going to be kind of impossible after the fact for everybody to get paid for the produce that went into the soup. And so it's got to all be switched around to where people get their compensation up front and it's all established up front as far as how people are going to get paid. And your model flipped the script. What are you changing about the compensation side of things? Well, what we're hoping to do is develop a way for everyone to collaborate on their own. So artists, musicians, filmmakers, videographers, scriptwriters, everyone can come together and say, we want to make a production. I think one of the big mistakes that the studios made, we're getting rid of their physical studios, getting rid of their physical, you know, if you, I know you can watch on YouTube, you can see all those sets where like Bewitched and every, you know, everything in the whole world was ever filmed, they're tearing that down and they're putting up big sound stages there instead. And that's so they can produce things digitally. Well, if they can produce things digitally that way, anybody can. So it's really just a matter of being able to put the right people together and the right technologies and then cemented in a way where you have people that don't already really know each other or trust each other can actually trust one another. And I believe that they can form new brands and they may need to include the legacy brands for certain things. But I think that the old brands may be a thing of the past and that the stage is right for new brands. And I believe that they could actually own their AI. And I'm so sorry, I got to put you on hold because the person cutting the grass needs me to get my dog. I'm so sorry. Go right ahead. Go right ahead. That's very interesting. The Karen's effort to put on a presentation at South by Southwest should be good. I don't know if we got to let me see if I can dig up the, did we get that in the chat? Did anyone get that in the chat? Yes, Brett. It's in the chat. Is it in the chat? Okay. Okay. So spend some spend some time spend some time looking, having a look at that, everyone. We're going to talk about at some point in in this discussion now, you know, what are what the next steps could be towards developing a starting the development of a project that that could be a benefit to the entertainment industry and seeing if they say after and the writer's guild would be interested in possibly participating. Karen, you got your dog okay? I do. And he's back. And you see my plan was to put the dog outside so he didn't bark. But apparently the best laid plans, you know, didn't know the lawn mowing person was coming. Of course, of course, of course. So we're, we definitely want to see what what can come of the of this AI blockchain marriage and what where do you think we could start in terms of developing something that is is compatible to the needs of the people that are currently on strike. There's not going to be any way they can put guardrails on this AI. Is there? I really don't think so. Because the problem is, is they're going to be using this for hundreds and hundreds of years. And we only live so long. And, you know, even if it passes on to our kids, you know, who wants to give your kids a lawsuit? You know, that was one of some of the words that Steve Popovich told me, he said, Karen, never, never get involved in a lawsuit because it'll kill you. He says, don't don't do it. Think of a different way. So anyway, so, you know, I think the very first place to start is with design thinking sessions. And I don't know, are you familiar with that term? But it's it's it involves holding like a group of workshops that are really focused on the person who would be participating. So we would focus on the on the on the writers and the actors and the and the people writing the soundtracks and the, you know, all the supporting crew and and and talk with each of them and really get them involved in designing the system. And and then when you're finished with a design thinking type workshop or session, you know, probably be a series of weeks, then you have a requirements document when you come out and then you can hand it to someone like Janesh or Ethan and say here, this is the requirements for the for the system that we need. That's interesting. That's something that we should start. And we should we should commit to starting that even today, and possibly invite some of the people that are attending here and some of the people that are going to that are going to see the video of this. So I would I would ask anyone that's on here if there is a if there is an opportunity for you guys to get involved, then please put your name up in the chat. We'll have all of the information that we can call on later and get a hold of you and see what puts something together with Karen and we'll start building a group. We have some questions in the chat here. I don't know. Let me see what. Okay. This is from I'm sorry, Savayan, Savayan, you know, Savon, you know, there you go. Would the people using the material be the ones to pay or would everything be a subscription based and percentage go to the artist on a platform? For example, Karen, what is your would the people using the material be the ones to pay? I guess that's, is that? Yeah, I can clarify. So I'm wondering because you were talking about how, you know, blockchain will track the process so we know who gets like pays for material being like say it's artist music. With that then through the platform you guys are developing to track that would it be like big corporations are paying for it or if I wanted to do a music video that I created with AI using Eminem, it would track that eventually I got Eminem so I would pay a portion to create that video or would it be like how a lot of AI has subscription based now it would just be if you're an artist on that platform and you're using the AI then it would be a percentage goes to. I mean, it could be that the that I think the big win is for artists to work directly with the consumer because remember the consumer is going to be generating things based on what they want like I might see a music video with my dog in it you know because that's really going to be what gets me happy or whatever you know but but so so those the real goal though like if I've said nothing else that matters take this as a takeaway the real goal is are those consumer statistics that's the data that's what they're all after that's why they're all in business is to get and by them I mean the distributors the the studios everybody that's working with these technologies that's the nugget is the is the behavior data what do people buy what do people do when do they watch when do they you know what combinations of things do they see so I think that when the artists start to own that data even a fractional share based on you know something that's a collaborative effort that's when you're going to really make money because then you can market that data in addition to marketing your creation it could be that the marketing of the data will make it so you can give the creations away to the consumer for free and it could be there's that much money in it but but I think that's the big that's when they shuffle everything around on the table the shell game and you don't know where the pee went you know that's that's one of the big secrets is that data they don't ever talk about it but that's really the valuable thing and I'll give you another example when they put scooters everywhere remember scooters scooters everywhere that was nothing to do with hoping people had a better time getting around that was everything to do with tracking where people were going and they would make deals with the governments to share that data it was all about data nothing about scooters so so so that's how big like data is the new gold good point uh go ahead uh sandy you're there yeah can you have me okay you can hear you fine oh well i'm good thank you thank you uh so question for karen so i think just to actually chime in on uh the question from sharon uh and then sorry if i'm butchering your name too uh so i think has a follow-up question on that point so karen the question i have is basically uh i know there've been a a multitude of other similar projects uh like in in different industries and i guess where we for short on a bunch of things is for any of the like like like you said tank product tank design of which i of course i agree with um and and i guess why some of these products actually don't really end up being super successful is if the market isn't there right and and i guess the question then becomes that um so so that's where this is uh i think this is a follow-up on uh sharon's question this day like how so so you could actually have a product which basically says okay well every bit that comes in whether there's data or that's the original production is going to be uh you know it's going to have some sort of a traceability there right but then the question that comes uh like do you have some sort of a market economics or market dynamics in place and are you actually as a part of you know promoting this product working even more than just technology working on the logistics side of the product to get the buy-in from different stakeholders because unless you have that buy-in and unless you have the the consumer and the producer side of the market things would be out of balance and when things go out of balance they don't really go forward yeah i mean i i agree with i agree with all of that you know i've i've run a company for a lot of years and i know it's really hard to get buy-in and attraction and especially if you're outside of the uh of the silicon valley inner circle and you're not going to get millions of dollars and but what i believe is that businesses can be run the old way with customers and uh and it would seem to me that the star power behind this if if if the industry does decide to go this way and i say if because it's really the industry's decision you know if they decide to go this way then it's their own star power that's going to make it win because people are going to want to see things that they are involved in not you know some ai-generated character that has nothing to do with with anybody that they know and like so i think that um you know this is the kind of thing that the um i don't see this as some big outside company having a project i see this more as a collaborative effort and a way to bring together a marketplace of a lot of smaller uh uh companies and someone like hyper ledger can uh can kind of set the the infrastructure for that so uh and then the other thing i would address that you said uh you mentioned market dynamics and and the ability to catch on and and i think that's all tied in with with um with connecting to existing efforts uh like i mentioned the uh the content authenticity efforts aren't new and they aren't they weren't even for ai they go back to uh being able to tell whether something was fake like you know whether you photoshop someone in that that wasn't there um and uh but they're they're perfectly applicable to ai and so the fact that those standards have been around for several years and that they're evolving and that that they're very active uh makes me have hope that this is is solvable agree well yeah thanks thanks uh thanks gavin i i agree i think cei like like for example from adobe and a bunch of other folks uh they've been working on to this uh like like you said uh is being also like like in the spy circles if could see something authentic or not so that's been out there for course some time uh i i guess just to if i may add up on my question is that like i guess what i'm wondering is that see uh the only way uh you can kind of like i mean i could be wrong on this but my thought was that uh let's say if you if you want to if you try to make some sort of a little production uh or like a movie or something and you need to use assets like the the video assets the audio assets or anything right and let's say it becomes a norm that you uh you wouldn't be able to sell your production uh to any other distributors unless you can prove authenticity of of the content that you used then the owner starts to fall on the only producers to make sure they're taking authentic content right but unless we have that point anybody can just use any thing and says okay well i've got something cool yes it's my real dog but who proves that it's my real dog or is the real you know whatever like jlo uh like they can basically oh yes like i got the real jlo video here uh it may be a completely fake version of jlo right so so uh the point then becomes that like i think that's where i was talking about the market dynamics and and the demand and and you know requirement balance where if you have that balance where you say hey uh if you can somehow even buy grass roots of fruits and fruits that uh the only way uh you know people can sell things and and then it's almost like saying you know like like these days uh people like like i work for bank and people actually take very serious uh people make really serious efforts to make sure all the software running in their shops is fully authentic because if they don't do that we can get fined for millions of dollars so like in a few years ago like anybody could grab a copy of microsoft office uh or do anything else but uh nowadays people don't do this because no they know this uh you know don't start to using uh you know uh like a uh like a freeware version or like a hack version right so so that's what i'm kind of coming to so i guess basically yes the product design and and the actual technical inflation is absolutely important because unless you have a solid product uh you know you can't really make it useful but at the same time unless uh their efforts to enforce uh the the use of the product in such a way that you know like like uh unless you have uh you know like authenticated uh authentic uh content you cannot really sell your content yeah there's also ways that you know i mentioned the the credit claims that are being done the cai credit claims there's also ways to flag files as do not use uh you know do not include in uh training data but i you know my answer to that would be all that is being worked on um the you know the the companies i believe that are serving out this content don't want uh liability either you know so i think that the the traceability will end up winning that's where uh uh and sandy and karen is that not where we get uh some fingerprinting acoustic and video and watermarking and all that sort of stuff that can protect the uh the product which and the ownership of that product the issue becomes what when ai is recreating that product can we get can we find a way to ensure using uh the perpetual uh perceptual hashing which means that the the the media can be identified if it's closely resembling any previous watermarked or fingerprinted media audio or um any kind of media so there's a lot that we can do using blockchain once the product is uh is run through the original works are are watermarked and fingerprinted that uh industry participant be it a writer or an actor now has some tools that they can use to help them identify who's messing with their with their stuff i guess is maybe the simple way to put it shavon you have a you have a question go ahead uh yeah thanks again uh i'm sorry this is newer for me i like love using ai so i'm on the user end of it so i've heard about a lot of lawsuits and stuff starting though because of like people using content and it's like you know then the artists miss out and stuff so i'm curious about the actual like i guess the logistics of it um so if you're if you guys have designed the software that can track like the blockchain that can track it would it be the type of thing if it's with artists like they go to their producer and their producer would come to you and then get set up with their own specific that's where they get their wallet with all their information on it and then if anyone wants to use their content or use it for any purpose it'd be almost like the producer and the blockchain would kind of work together and that would be all through that like is that just good with the tracking and all that yes that's definitely one way it could work and see there's um what goes around the blockchain is normal software so it's like what i would call a workflow so somewhere you know one thing goes to another to another and then there's agreements there could be contracts that are coded into the workflow software so you know when certain conditions are met payment can be released all that can happen and what the blockchain gives it is is a tamper evident audit trail so if anyone ever tries to go back and cook the books which you know i'm sure that they probably that probably happens a lot someone goes oh you know we we didn't mean to pay them this much you know we better fix that and and but they can't touch it without leaving a trail and so that's what you want to do is set it so the critical touch points if they touch anything that's important it leaves a trail and so uh anyone can always go back and look because any blockchain never gets uh the cells or the the blocks in the blockchain never get deleted so they're they're just always there and uh even when some information changes it just posts another block so an auditor can always go back and figure it out okay so could you actually connect the software to a platform like chat gbt if chat gbt you want to take that on so then every time someone prompts anything it's always just tracking it or like i don't know if chat already has that but okay that's very cool yeah yeah you can connect anything to blockchain yeah that's very cool thank you kramer yeah the the question uh shavonna about the wallet and uh would the wallet be the permission touch point for a creator to release that product is very interesting concept i mean we're not talking about in this particular meeting today we're not talking about current existing technology in blockchain with hyper ledger or any public or private blockchain permission blockchain we're talking about what we can do and that is a very good point and that is something that you could have multiple ways of a creator or an author or something who's giving permission to use a particular asset that they have and having having it come from a wallet uh using keys uh you know using the public from uh private key uh technology etc etc so yeah i like that good good point shavonna good good stuff we've got a question here from sharyl grossman sharyl thank you um i'm uh reading this so far i've seen a good use case for the music industry there have been odd initiatives for tv and film refinancing but they haven't worked out yet can you see any use cases for film and television sharyl if you're still there can you um do you mean that uh i think sharyl's gone but for the purposes of uh i'm i'm i think i don't i'm not sure what the question is relating to if it's a matter of of payments or financing um the music industry has in in some cases tried in fact with hyper ledger back in i believe 2017 ibm was deeply involved with uh prs and some of the major music uh distributors and uh they uh were working to build a hyper ledger fabric blockchain that would track all of the um the music uh metadata uh against ownership and that that project was dropped and i don't know why but it was and i've asked some people within hyper ledger um and some ibmers if they could tell me why and no one seems to know why but uh the music industry is a mess from a from a from a the perspective of payments and residuals and things of that nature these millions of dollars sitting in and vacant accounts waiting to find out who owns these rights these the so that's something that certainly uh with the cooperation of the industry it can get fixed but whether the industry will cooperate is another story altogether but uh so that is um i know that that is in the in the music industry but i think that that this can be payments or investment in film and television a lot of it is is government driven a lot of it is tax credit driven which means that accounting is a very critical component to it so there is definitely a use case for blockchain in that side of it and that's in fact something that i'm a pet project of mine for the last couple of years to build out a uh a um uh blockchain the hyper ledger fabric um based production kit out of them uh that you could then open and close a a corporation in terms of uh building a film production series or whatever and then closing it at the end and then using all the same uh components companies that have been identified and you know to to just join your way back into a new production so so that's something that Cheryl is uh maybe uh maybe helpful to that question you had if i could add to that yeah go right ahead it's the whole multimodal type aspect too you know for production uh maybe even if a production you had its own blockchain and that always travels with that particular piece of production you know it could be that that production will be turned into a game or it'll be turned into a uh um you know a a screenplay or a book or a you know it could be turned into any number of things um it could be turned into something that we're not even thinking about yet but uh but the uh there's all kinds of things that can happen with this uh that that wouldn't be in the past because it's generative so so someone could say i like this particular show make it a game you know or uh or make this a social a social experience where i'm chatting with the show and i actually get to talk to the actors and you know but it's all pretend and and uh so that whole thing they call it multimodal where there's all different kinds of of aspects involved with a production so i just thought i'd throw that out there and say i think that kind of fits with what you just described uh oh i lost your audio that was my fault the question from iphone here could the emergence of ai imply a reduction in demand for highly skilled writers or creators thereby potentially enabling anyone to assume the role of a creator or writer thanks to the capabilities ai introduces well i'm going to before you jump in there karen i'm just going to add my point about the fingerprinting and about the about the uh the fact that you can actually use blockchain to prove you own a product and then you can use ai to determine whether or not that product is being uh will use the word fraudulently exploited so that's that's my one of one of the responses to iphone's question but the the important thing is that is that blockchain shows who owns the product and blockchain can show who owns a product that's similar to that product and prove that and there's obviously some other legal implications and costs associated with that go ahead karen what are your thoughts on that oh no that's okay my my first thought was that over time the quality will dilute if you don't have real writers and and real artists and real creative people it's already been proven that the drift and ai makes it so then the quality starts to drop and uh and i i really do think that most of the content in the world isn't already in ai it's it's it's in our heads it's all over our studios you know it's laying around on the floor it's you know it's yet to be introduced so um that's why i was thinking that you know uh it's time to really change the way it's all done and and just turn it all around so the ownership stays with the people who own their creativity and the terms are are set up front before you even go in the content um so um so to answer the question yes it is true right now today you can sit down and you can uh you can write amazing things and do amazing artwork just like uh you know i like to i like john michel bascat and that has been one of my big things i've played with on dali and it's astounding how well it does his style and uh but you know of course he doesn't he'll never see a penny nor will his estate um but but that isn't gonna last that way without more content more real content it'll dilute that is uh something that i've come to learn from the uh from this industry that for sure ai has only got uh can only last for so long and from a creative perspective it's got to be built on top of the real human thinking the real human participation which is why i think it's important that uh it's you can first identify the the fact that it's been a it's a copy or it's a derivative of a human production and then from there you sort of have to start testing the legal body to and the legislation to figure out whether or not the uh you can enforce certain rights so the way things are today isn't necessarily the way things are going to be tomorrow in terms of the legal side of of intellectual property so we just have to hope that um you know there's some changes and there's some there's some real um progress in terms of uh in terms of making it so that there's fair compensation for everyone and i you know from from what i've seen with respect to the writer's guild and the uh the actors on strike and some of the things that i've seen from the studios it really is a huge imbalance and that's uh that's hopefully gonna get fixed now but let's hope that uh one we can spend more time talking after dinner than watching movies and two that's uh let's uh let's hope that these people that have not been fairly compensated find their find their stride with this uh with this strike so with that do we have any other questions in here it's um i don't see any others any other comments from you folks out there great participation thank you so much to all of you and uh how do we get the tools in front of sag afra is what ethan asked yeah well that's um that's something that let's pick that up in our you know in a discussion after this and let's um let's hope that everybody who wants a a copy of your book has sent an email into into uh randy and uh we're going to get we're going to get a couple of those copies out and plus the plus the uh plus the digital pdf copies of caron it was uh it's uh we're up in a couple of minutes here but uh do we have any other comments from you on oh um shavon you want to just send she should be right in the um yeah just send it just send your contact info shavon to randy in the chat here just randy should be in there under randy givens though yes i'm in there yeah you're in there and then there you yeah if you want to do that got it thank you shavon and thank you everyone for participating caron any closing comments here what uh what's the next thing for us in terms of ai and blockchain i think that the uh design thinking sessions it would be good to hold a few official design thinking sessions and get some real input from people because uh as was pointed out you know you can't just build it and hope people come um it has to be useful to people and it could be that this could be started very small and tested and then then expanded in a way that makes sense so i'm i'm really hopeful and i thank you so much for having having me here today to to talk about this and uh and i look forward to hearing everybody's uh feedback uh you can find me the easiest on linkedin caron killroy yeah hopefully all you guys can jump on linkedin and follow our uh our uh hyper ledger median entertainment special interest group and from there we'll start talking about the design thinking group and uh make some progress thank you all for coming thank you caron for participating you're a you're a you're a you're a wonder in the ai world and uh we'll see you all at our next monthly meeting thank you everyone thank you thank you bye bye everybody bye bye take care everyone thank you okay take care