 The data center is here. And here. Even here. Why? Because innovation has taken it there. Innovation in the form of mobile devices, the globalization of IT resources, data hungry apps, virtualization, and of course the cloud. All of it pushing the data center to the very edges of the network. But it takes a lot more to make it happen. It requires a network that's scalable, one that's automated, and most importantly one that's reliable. At Brocade, that's the only kind of network we know. By combining our 15 years of fiber channel heritage with the best-of-breed Ethernet fabric solutions, we're helping companies worldwide simplify their architecture, increase network availability, and dramatically reduce their total cost of ownership. The result? Cloud optimized networks that deliver business critical applications from the data center to the campus land. Right to the very edges of the network. It's why two-thirds of the world's financial transactions already travel across Brocade. Why one-third of the world's internet exchanges run Brocade. And why more than 90% of the global 1,000 rely on Brocade. When the network is the data center, the answer is always Brocade. Okay, we are back live here in SiliconANGLE.tv's theCUBE special broadcast. We are live at Brocade's headquarters in Silicon Valley, California, San Jose, California for a special broadcast for Brocade's Technology and Analyst Day. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE.com. And I'm here with Stu Miniman, the analyst at Wikibon.org, breaking down what's going on with Brocade and the tech trends. And our next guest is Tony Underwood, paper, cloud, EVP, CMO. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. Good to be here. So we go out. We're talking to, you know, executives, entrepreneurs. You're a customer of Brocade. Yes, we are. And you have a really interesting solution that's really kind of hitting the sweet spot of the market. We've seen companies like SuccessFactors get bought by SAP. People are moving stuff to the cloud. Tell us first with your company what you guys do and how Brocade's helping you get there. Sure. As paper cloud, we provide infrastructure as a service and software as a service. And then the managed services that wrap around that to help businesses and that SMB space go from an on-premise solution to a cloud solution. And they can take advantage of either individual SaaS offerings or fully dedicated private cloud environments. So give an example of a typical client engagement. Typical client, actually, there's nothing typical about any client. Give us a, well, not normal. A good size problem that you have to solve. So we have customers that sit in the space that we really want to be in. Our target customer is that mid-sized customer that maybe has 250 to 1,000 employees that have solutions that are costing too much, that are too difficult and complex to manage on an ongoing basis. And they need their IT staff to be focused on solving business problems, not dealing with IT infrastructure issues. Like operations, managing the mail servers and the application. Exactly. There's no reason for a business of that size right now to have an exchange solution that's sitting on-premise. I hear that all the time. That is one workload of many workloads that makes sense to move out into the cloud. But what we're finding our greatest success right now being is finding the managed services that help that customer migrate so that they can have, it's not an all or none answer. And some companies are looking at moving to the cloud as being an all or none. Yeah, yeah. There's some liberation involved because you're essentially taking away a huge pain point for them because stuff is breaking, they got to upgrade servers at such cost. So you've got this OPEX kind of threshold where it's costing them some money. And then they hit this point where they go, wow, we got to either buy more gear and keep it on-prem or so they got to do the economic analysis. Is that fair, accurate assessment of what's happening? Absolutely. My background, I was a CIO for many years. And the decisions that really were important to me was, can I solve my business problems and not spend a bunch of money doing it, right? And so there's a couple of ways in which you can do that. And I kept having my IT staff come to me and say, I need another $100,000 or $200,000 in order to buy additional storage or additional servers. When you can turn that into a monthly cost, and you can control and manage that cost as a CIO, you can make better decisions. And back in the day, in classifying that environment, you were the no person. Everything was no, right? Exactly. The no ops was a term that would kick around for the ideal operation, but they called the CIO a no op because all you would say is no to operations. So again, this is the OPEX problem. A lot of money goes into the operations. So talk about some of the challenges that you need to execute on to develop this because obviously infrastructure as a service, platform as a service and software as a service is cutting edge. That's really a big part of the infrastructure now. So as you do your job and want to scale out your client base, you want to keep your marginal costs down and appreciate revenue, right? So okay, it's a nice economic situation. What are some of the technical challenges you have there? Well, one of the key ones and part of the reason we're here is in our old infrastructure, we had a problem being able to scale and control the costs. Our customers need speed. They need the ability when they're putting up either a private cloud that has VMs inside it, or virtual machines, they need the ability to be able to get speed and move those and provision VMs quickly, right? Yeah, Tony, can you talk to us a little bit about kind of your growth profile? What are you seeing in your environment? And specifically on the network, you know, what do you see both from a network standpoint and kind of a virtualization standpoint is this virtualization part of your environment? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Well, so where I was going with that is, we had an environment that had the ability to have eight servers in Iraq. After we deployed our new infrastructure, we had the capacity of 12 servers in Iraq. Okay, so I have a cost structure that can support now on the same footprint, 12 servers. The real magic, though, wasn't the number of servers, it was the number of VMs that I can support inside that. It grew from around 100 to 500. There was a significant improvement in the ability for me to sell virtual machines or resource out to my customer with a cost structure that stayed in the same footprint. So the economics for us as we look at our growth prospects, if we can continue to grow the business without the cost growing in direct proportion to that, we have a business model that becomes very interesting. Can you walk us through the decision process on how you ended up partnering with Pro-K? Absolutely. And what tell us what's the technologies you're using? So we looked at a number of different solutions. There's a lot of good companies out there, not going to knock into the others that we looked at, but they didn't come out. You can tell us. Inside the queue, we keep it quiet. Absolutely. As we're broadcasting out to the World Wide Web, right? It's okay, Cisco. Yeah, okay. Microsoft. We are a strong believer in the solution that we put in with Brocade, because it wasn't just a matter of whether or not they had a technical solution. It was, did they have a technical solution that made sense from a cost perspective? And did they have a service and support capability that was going to work with our business? And so they helped us deploy this new solution. We had Esquia, who is one of the engineers who helped us actually roll it out. We had a live customer base. It wasn't like we could just pull everything out and switch over. We had to migrate while we were live. So my question for you is one for the audience that might not be in the inside the ropes around the Brocade stuff that Stu goes into great detail on, but more of around Ethernet fabrics. And so everyone knows about Ethernet. That's in IT. Ethernet's great, and it's fast, and we all know going back to the legacy of the internet. But explain what Ethernet fabric is, because the word fabric is tossed around a lot. It's been obviously in the networking landscape. I got a fabric, I got v-fabric on VMware. So what what is fabric? What does Ethernet fabric mean? Doesn't fabric sound cool? It's a great marketing term. Is it polyester? Is it cotton? We said, you know, I know people that have their cloud security blanket to kind of fabric, but yeah, this is something different. So the fabric is the ability, and this is from my interpretation. I'm not the IT guy. I'm not the CIO. I'm a marketing guy. You were a CIO. And plain to yourself, what a fabric is Ethernet fabric, the core message. The fabric is the ability to have a layer across your, your networking infrastructure, where it looks as one solution to you. You don't have a bunch of pieces. You have the ability to look at a fabric or a holistic view of your networking switching routing. It looks like a standard. It looks like a standard, in a way, because not a lot of complexity, right? Sure. That what you mean? Yeah. Okay. So what is their fabric? When I put, I'm sorry, but when I put resource into that fabric, or when I add components to it, it just expands the fabric. Got it. So automation is a pulled resource. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Great. So what about brocade fabric? Because we had Mike on earlier, and all their top executives and some geeks here, deploying fabrics and what do you say in seconds, minutes, you know, the high school kids up here deploying fabrics. Well, in that fabric. So that's simple. Sounds almost too good to be true. What does that mean? Well, I must confess, we didn't deploy fabrics in a matter of seconds. Now, maybe the fabric could have been deployed in a matter of a few minutes. We were really more interested in a holistic solution. Because at the end of the day, our customers don't care about a fabric. What they care about is, are you solving my business problem? So we had a whole bunch of other decision points that needed to be brought into this whole analysis beyond the fabric component. The fabric enables our ability to do something. So how about the impact to the, let's get back to the meat and potatoes of your gross margin, which is basically your managed services, a lot of gross profit involved in services. So does that fabric help you deploy services faster? Absolutely. Yeah. And then the latency that we experienced dramatically improved when from milliseconds to nanoseconds. So the speed and the performance of the back end allows us not only from the scalability standpoint, to put more load on it, to add more VMs, but to be able to manage that infrastructure more cost effectively, takes fewer people to manage the infrastructure. Tony, I was wondering if you could kind of share with us what you're seeing from your customers. You know, how is the adoption of all the, you know, infrastructure as a service, you know, software as a service? Are CIOs, you know, readily adopting it? Is it still something that they're, they're fighting and the CEO's telling them, you know, I read about this, you need to go do it, you know, where are we in this process? And, you know, as a former CIO, you know, what advice do you give to the CIOs out there? Yeah, there's a lot of shift going on right now. It's all over the map, quite frankly. And so I personally don't know of the specific trend. You have a lot of people that are viewing the cloud as a very, very big security hole. Until they understand that the cloud is a buzz term, talking about something that's already existed for a long time, it's just evolved. And the way it's being consumed is now different. If you look at making a decision to put your enterprise class ERP system in the cloud, you shouldn't be putting it in a public cloud. You can put it in a very highly scalable secure private cloud environment. But it all depends upon the workload that is being put out into the cloud, which is where we as paper cloud come into the mix, and where we excel is finding the right solution for the customer. It's not a all or nothing type of solution. So Tony, we're wrapping up our day here. We got a couple more minutes left. But I want to just ask you some more, you know, it's more personal business oriented questions around your business and and to share experiences with the audience out there. A whole new breed of entrepreneurs are entering the marketplace leveraging, especially the rapid agile capabilities of the cloud with this massive surge of SaaS, etc. So you know, it's fairly easy to program to get off the ground. But also, the scale of business requires some discipline. You guys are doing that. What advice would you share the folks out there that are deploying on the cloud to doing these kinds of roles? A lot more boutiques and or new service providers are coming into the market. It's a huge opportunity. They're faster, they're nimble, they've got lower costs, and can generate still some good sizeable revenue. So you know, I see you're doing a lot of great things. What advice would you share with folks out there in that regard? It's a very interesting question. As a technologist, you would think that my first response might be something about some cool technology. The advice is as simple as this. Technology is an enabler. And if you're not solving a business problem, and if the customer is not your ultimate focus, you don't have a business, no matter how cool your technology is. And you know, Brocade comes in, there's a great new tool, a set of tools that you can put inside your infrastructure to make things faster, better, smarter, cheaper. If you lose sight of the end goal, and that is solving a customer's problem, you have no business. So the advice is stay focused on solving business problems for customers. And how do some of the cloud things that you've learned lower your cost to do that? I mean, is there some tips you have? That's how you technology, but you know, business practices could be hiring, outsourcing, using other applications. I mean, what core competency should someone develop if you had to make a call, like, okay, like, not so much a tech feature or this virtualization, but like, also you got to get that customer, we got to get in a way that lower costs, you make more money. It's simple, black line, red line, keep the cost lower than the revenue, right, and still serve the customer. Is there a core competency relative to cloud and or these, these new technologies? Core competency. You know, I wouldn't say I specifically had an answer around core competency other than to go back to what I just said and all business success is based on making a customer happy and solving a problem. And if you don't do that, again, it doesn't matter what you've done. And it doesn't matter if you've got the greatest business model for staffing and or the greatest, hey, I can control my costs here or there if you're not solving a problem, none of the rest of that stuff matters. All right, so my final question for you is this, so as an ex-CIO and someone who's out there deploying some cutting edge stuff, solving business problems, try to imagine if you were a CIO today. What's going on in your mind today? If you're a CIO today, what's going on in your mind? Obviously there's a lot of pressure on the top line and bottom line, but what's the psychology right now of a CIO in 2012 going into 2013? Always up, always available, low cost, got to have more. Always up, always available. And now you've got environments that must be up 24, 7, 365. There's no downtime. So in order to be successful and sleep at night as a CIO, you have to have solutions that you don't have to worry about. They have to always be up and always available. How are those CIOs, just to follow up on, how are those CIOs motivating their staff if they have staffs? And who we know? What's the challenging around the management of the people? I'm not sure if this is where you're going, but let me just say this. The challenge sometimes with the cloud is there's a perception by IT managers that the cloud somehow eliminates the need for them. It doesn't. It actually, if employed correctly, will enable them to focus on more business oriented or business needed problems rather than things that don't really add economic value to the business, either revenue or cost savings. Great. Okay. Well, we have one minute left. So I'm going to let's answer one last question. Really, it's really the final question. That is, what's going on for your businesses next year? What are your goals? And what do you hope to do in the next year? Well, we're really excited about the next year. We're going to be adding a lot more products and services and expanding our partner network. The partner network we see as something that is going to allow us to be a strong backend infrastructure and service, software as a service provider and managed service provider, delivering solutions to MSPs and consulting firms where they can now have high availability solutions that they can provide out to their customer without all the costs and infrastructure needed to build their own. And partnering that way becomes a win-win-win because it becomes a multi-tiered touch to the customer and that customer gets a closer connection to the person solving their problem. Okay. Tony Underwood with Paper Cloud. Great success story. Entrepreneurs out there making new things happen. Fabric is an expanded resource. It helps drive revenue and profit. Great stuff in the networking space. Thanks for joining theCUBE. We'll be right back here with SiliconANGLE TV special broadcast here at Brocade's headquarters right after this short break. theCUBE is this conceptual box, if you will, and we bring people inside of theCUBE and then we share ideas. theCUBE is a comfortable place. It's a place where people feel happy and are happy to share their knowledge with the world and we're happy to be ambassadors of that knowledge transfer. To go the video news business believed the internet was a fact. The science has settled. We all know the internet is here to stay. Bubbles and busts come and go but the industry deserves a news team that goes the distance. Coming up on social angle are some interesting new metrics for measuring the worth of a customer on the web. Every morning we're on the air to bring you the most up-to-date information on the tech industry with scrutiny on releases of the day and news of industry-wide trends. We're here daily with breaking analysis from the best minds in the business. Join me, Kristen Filetti, daily at the news desk on SiliconANGLE TV, your reference point for tech innovation. Hey, welcome back to Silicon Valley live at Brocade's headquarters for a special edition of SiliconANGLE.tv's theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal knowledge and share that out on the internet live with live web TV. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. I'm joined with Stu Miniman, analyst at wikibon.org and we're here with Mark Allen Obt. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. So we are here for a special broadcast with Brocade, so obviously networking's all the buzz, but the top story in the world today is the iPhone 5, which is dominating the internet at the moment, which really is a great, you know, consumer way to point at the future, which is, it's, you know, software everything that we've been talking on theCUBE. So, you know, I've got better screens, I've got better bandwidth, LTE, putting on huge amounts of pressure on the engine of tech, under the hood. Yes, it is. So under the hood, there's networking. Yes. The last bottleneck in virtualization. Agreed. So, yay. Right? Yeah, exactly. So what's your take on all that? Well, what do you see going? So we have tried, as a hosting company, we've tried from the day virtualization came out to virtualize, again, everything under the sun that we could. We were even taking servers that weren't intended to be virtualized or supported and virtualizing them. We just, we knew that that's the direction where things we're going to go from a reliability standpoint, from a scalability standpoint, we knew we had to virtualize. Okay? Well, that, as you just mentioned, that doesn't do us a whole lot of good if I still have a physical switch sitting there that only has a specific amount of ports, right? It's going to allow me to grow to a very specific amount of size. So with that, we're starting with Brocade and we've worked a lot in a lab as we start talking about, you know, the SDN and we start talking about how to start managing the actual infrastructure on a more virtual basis. That's very exciting to us because that's the, again, like you said, it's the last rung to taking the shackles off to where we can grow unrestrained. We can grow without the limitations of worrying about certain physical limitations. So, Mark, you said you do hosting. Are you also providing services? Can you lay out kind of what kind of cloud and service offerings that OBT does? Sure. OBT does the whole spectrum of, as a service. So infrastructure is a service. We do SaaS, so we do software as a service. OBT's bread and butter had traditionally been VDI, so desktop is a service. OBT acquired and merged with Prometheus Networks, which is where I'm from. We started quite a few years ago, a six-year-old in particular, we took Microsoft's OCS and turned it into a PBX replacement, a virtual multi-tenant hosted solution. It was completely unsupported. Microsoft was a little taken back by it, but now that has developed into what is now a complete unified hosted solution. And so, as OBT analyzed the industry, looked where it wanted to go. They wanted to come A into North America very strongly, and Asia very strongly, with the UC as a service. And so, their approach to that was to acquire us. And so, that's our primary focus, is the UC as a service. I wonder if we could dig into your virtualization, and I want to also get to VDI in a second. So, when you say you're virtualized, are you like a VMware shop, Microsoft, or Unix, what are you doing? So, in our North America infrastructure, we're a Hyper-V, so we're a complete Microsoft shop, we're virtual end-to-end. We literally have no services running that aren't virtualized. However, out of Australia and Singapore and the other side of our house, as we're merging these technologies, we're bringing in Citrix, VMware, and some other technologies. Great. So, you know, Microsoft can criticize that they've been a little bit behind on the virtualization front. One of our writers actually is a Microsoft expert, said Hyper-V3 really did close the gap, and in some ways it has, you know, the kind of monster VM that VMware has, Hyper-V has a larger VM that they can do in that. So, what's your experience been as a Microsoft Hyper-V customer? Well, you know, and I don't, by saying what I'm going to tell you, I don't mean to bag on VMware, I think they're a good product. But in our personal experience, what happened was, as many years ago, when we opted to go completely virtual, we were at a crossroads where Hyper-V did not do anything. Okay? I had to go 32-bit. I had, I mean, there was a lot of limitations in Hyper-V, as you just mentioned, and I didn't have a direction I could go with that. And so we said, well, let's go to VMware. Because Microsoft's on the server side said, for exchange, you have to go 64-bit. For this, you have to go, oh, by the way, our server doesn't do 64-bit, you know, type of thing. So, we decided to go with VMware. We went and deployed our entire production environment, and just as we were about to go live in production, it corrupted. VMware had corrupted our entire infrastructure from the Active Directory out. And we got cold feet. We, we, what are we doing? This is bad. I mean, we had to rebuild from scratch. We lost weeks and weeks of labor. And in the meantime, in our labs, we were playing with the initial release of Hyper-V, even in beta. And we had never had a problem. So, so we went live with it, and we've never looked back. And when was this that you deployed Hyper-V then? This is on its beta release. So, I'm trying to think of the date on it. So, you're saying v1, you're saying. v, v almost one. Yeah, yeah, almost one. Okay. And then we upgraded our productions by moving the machines from machine to machine to the actual production release. And we've never looked back. And so we've stuck with VMware. I mean, excuse me, Hyper-V. Yeah, we'd like to dig in your desktop as a service. So, I saw, you know, two years ago, you started to see everybody building out desktop as a service. VDI is going to be next. And to be honest, I've been, from what I'd surveyed, I hadn't seen a lot of adoption of desktop as a service. We're starting to see VDI adoption as a whole is starting to grow. But you know, what's your experience been desktop as a service? What metrics can you give us as to who's deploying? I wish I had better metrics, but what I can tell you is, first of all, we're using Citrix on that delivery engine. Second of all, what I've noticed is, again, we come from an accession from North America. As I've traveled around internationally, I'm finding partners in the space, the adoption of VDI seems to be a lot more popular outside of North America. I'm trying to figure out why that is, and I don't know if it's cost of infrastructure or my guess is it's availability of data center services, etc., and cloud computing here in North America versus some of the costs of the other locations. But we're finding, at least what we've seen, the adoption rate is a lot higher in Europe, especially Australia, especially, than it is in North America. We're not, we personally haven't seen the adoption in North America. So Mark, handicap the horses on the track, as we'd like to say. So you have the software defined networking, it's been kicked around on a lot of the, you know, inside the trenches or the inside the ropes, if you will, of the big guys. But now with VMware putting down the acquisition within Sierra, kind of sets the table. HP was doing some open flow stuff. They got some shipping open flow stuff with Pro-K. Okay, all that's great in Dandy, but you know what? Now, within the Sierra, everyone's kind of put on notice. The bell has been rung. So just your perspective, handicapped the players out there. You got a lot of disruption coming down the pike. Finally, the shackles are off. I love that phrase. Yep. Can't wait for the liberation and innovation from this. But how do you stack up the existing incumbents? What do you think is going to happen? Just stack them up and give it a little forecast. Honestly, I think we've got a ways. I mean, I know that the shot was fired and I know it signals that there is going to start to be some consolidation in the space. But I still think it's, it's still really young. I think we've got a long ways to go before maybe a industry standard is set. I still think there's probably going to be multiple standards. You're going to see, I think, the large players either acquire or create their initiatives in that space. You'll probably end up with a, I think, long term. You'll end up with a handful of them. We're seeing Cisco in Juniper, for example. A lot of people leaving the company to go to SDN startups. Not that that's a good move or not, but you're seeing the talent move around. Silicon Valley and the industry. It's what happens. But what do you do if you're Cisco in Juniper at this point? Are you feeling antsy? Do you just calm? I, again, I think it's so early. I think they're, I think it's on their radar. I think it's an initiative that everybody's focused on. I mean, you hear today it brocade what that was, I think the primary buzzword, right? I mean, that was kind of, I mean, other than their new product launches. That's what everybody's talking about. So everybody knows it's going that direction. I don't think anybody's worried yet. Typically in Silicon Valley, when you see people scatter and startup start, it's because they know it's an emerging technology that's going to be acquired and you're going to see consolidation and they're going to make money. A lot of hype. A lot of hype. I mean, remember when virtualization was the buzzword? Yeah. I mean, everybody started out making a virtual way something and then now it's all kind of consolidated. Alright, just take a step back now. Let's pop our head up and climb Mount Everest in the industry. Look out over the horizon and see what's going on in the landscape. What's your assessment of the current customer environment out there in terms of like vibe, in terms of demand? Where's the real demand right now? Obviously, there's pressure to drive revenue with all that, you know, drive, solve business problems. We love that lower cost. Sure. Been around since business was started. But right now, what's what's on the demand side? What are people really looking to do right now? Do you mean overall or in the networking space? Overall, to tech, networking, and we're networking. So the shackles are coming off networking. Okay, we agree this is a good, good step. Right. What's going to be enabled on top of that? Where's the big demand coming from? Is it just blocking and tackling cost reduction? Is it mobile? Is it cloud? Well, I can tell you, from my opinion, and again, my perspective may be a little skewed that I'm in a certain industry. But that being said, I'm watching how much money is being poured into the UC space. And this is cloud UC. Cisco is in the same space. We were just talking about their SDN initiative. Well, let's talk about their UC initiative, right? Microsoft and Link, their initiative, their acquisition of Skype. I mean, billions and billions of dollars are being thrown around. We're in meetings all week as OBT with telcos, big global, the top 10, you know. They're looking at UC saying, how are we going to adapt to this? Are we going to embrace it? Are we going to go with it? Are we going to bring in something that's sort of like it? And you're seeing these partnerships being formed. You're seeing the money being spent. That, to me, that cloud UC is going to be a big one. Yeah, and UC traditionally has been, you know, started with from, you know, the PBX being digital. That kind of created the whole void size of business. And all of a sudden, everyone's misfiring on that market. And next scene there over here, they got attacked. So describe what cloud UC means. Because UC was, hey, I got a voice over IP and I wanted to create the collaboration. That's kind of, that's been a false summit or a rainbow that chasing. Exactly. And now they got to get back. Where are they getting back to? Well, so what happens is we actually never went. And it sounds like no one went. They went. Right. Microsoft went. Cisco went. Voice over IP is a myth. And that sounds funny, but voice over IP is a really myth. Because what you did is you threw in a gateway and you took the voice traffic and you hurried and threw it out the gateway. You didn't go anywhere. You shifted the traffic off to a gateway and sent it back out to the PSTN. But everybody you talk to in a phone scenario or you see you're still having to know their extension and hunt group. And these are terms that exist only in the phone world. Why are we still using them? Yes. Because it never went anywhere. We masked it. We threw a cute name on it with voice over IP. But in reality we're still... That was done. They throwed UC on top of that. Exactly. And so then, and then what is that? Well, that's the phone world sending you an email back into the IP world until Microsoft's link came into play which has got people really rattled. Now you're not talking about devices and extensions and trunks anymore. You're talking about ID. You are you. You're finding you. You're calling you. And that's when the voice and everything is staying... The notion of presence is changing. Exactly. Right? I mean... Exactly. So you're staying inside the IP network. And you're not leaving until you desperately have to get out and with the acquisition of Skype and other things like that and other players in the open federation market where you can start calling without ever leaving the IP server world. So now with virtualization what you're saying is you can now redefine in a good way what UC means. Yeah. And voice over IP. All that stuff under a new environment. You're truly voice over IP. You're truly UC. Yeah. You're not having to go out to PSTN. That's where Telcos are starting to now consider it because they don't want to lose the minute revenue that they were traditionally used to. Okay. Final question. Then we have to wrap Mark. What do you think about Brocade right now and this technology day and given all the pressure in the marketplace and the demand for great apps, mobile, etc. Cloud you see all this stuff. Where's Brocade fit into all this? You know Brocade's in a tough market. They're in a very tough market. It's it's it's a dog eat dog in this one and there's a lot of changing standards. A lot of movement especially with the like we talked about the cloud initiatives and things. I think what I like about Brocade I will say what I do like about Brocade is they are aware and they seem to be engaged with where the industry standards are going if not setting some of those or trying to. I'm always impressed with their technical staff. They're we work heavily with their labs to see what they're working on. So I think they're positioned well. It's just a matter of where the cards fall sometimes. Okay. Mark Allen with OBT. Thanks for coming on the Cube. This is so look in the angle dot TV special broadcast live at the Brocade headquarters in Silicon Valley for the Technology Day Analyst Day here at Brocade. We'll be right back with a wrap up right after this short break.