 and welcome. Excited to have you here. Another episode of the non-profit show. Today I'm really honored to introduce to all of you Danny McGregor and Danny serves and started the Charity Design Co. Excited to talk to her and excited for her to share these six donor avatars you need to know. So stay with us. We want to remind you, our viewers and our listeners, who you are looking at are possibly listening to. Hello to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransom. You're a non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. We are so very honored day in and day out to have the ongoing support from our amazing presenting sponsors. So thank you to our friends over at Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, and again the non-profit nerd. Thank you, thank you, thank you to these companies. We encourage you to please check them out because the cool thing is they're here for you. They're here for your mission and they want to help you do more good. So if you missed any of our episodes, you can find them all on many streaming platforms, including this one that we're recording now and sharing live with Danny, but you can find all of our episodes on Roku, YouTube, Amazon, Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And for those of you podcast listeners, go ahead and queue us up there too. Wherever you stream your podcast, you can find the non-profit show. Danny, we are so excited to have you. I'm so excited. You reached out to me via my website. As I shared with you, I did my reconnaissance. I looked you up, you know, dug into your website, your LinkedIn and I was like, this woman is amazing and we need to have her on the episode. So Danny McGregor joins us again, the Charity Design Co. Welcome, Danny. Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. I also enjoyed learning all about what you guys are doing and I've become a fan of the show as well. So thank you. Well, you know, your website's amazing and I loved learning about you and seeing how you communicated to everyone. And when we had the opportunity to have you on to talk about avatars and how important they can be and should be on our websites, I was like this, we got to have this conversation and we need to have it now because so many of us look at our websites to redo and rework at this point of the year, right? I mean, it's like one of those resolutions. I know it is for me. So let's get going. But before we do, Danny, talk to us about what an avatar is because we have six of them. So let's get started there. Absolutely. So the way I define an avatar and obviously anybody that's taken marketing would kind of define your avatar as your ideal customer. So we're going to reframe that in the nonprofit world as our ideal donor. And all of your marketing communications should all kind of be developed for them and what they would be interested in. So with that, we have six ideal donors that are going to be coming to your website and how do you frame and create a website around that that will capture their hearts and get them to give. And historically, we really only have six types of donors that will come to a nonprofit website. And so what can you put on your website? That will get them to click and get them to donate. Let me ask you this. Are these six very distinct, separate folks or can they have pieces that kind of blend or overlap? Absolutely. Everybody's kind of a blend and an overlap. And we have a really easy way to add these layers and these onion pieces, if you will, to a website that captures all of those things and really creates this beautiful storytelling of what you do for your cause, which makes it really seamless and easy for a nonprofit to really get their message across and to make somebody want to give. This is exciting. So let's dive in. We have six to go over in a very short amount of time, but we are excited to start with number one. Donor avatar number one is social connection. What does that mean, Danny? It's literal connection. People want to see names that they recognize. So that means putting up your board members, putting up pictures of your staff, putting up and connecting your social media. They want to see faces of people or names that they recognize. Putting names of supporters or brands that they recognize. They want to see how they can be connected and who else is connected to create that legitimacy to get them to click and donate. Simple as that. It's so interesting because sometimes that's a bit of a mystery. Sometimes nonprofits don't do that enough and so even just the board piece, I mean, just saying who's on your board and if you can have images even better, hello. But aren't you amazed, Jared, how many folks don't do that? You know, I always search websites to see who's the leadership of the organization, not only internal staff, but that external governing body, the board members. And when I cannot find it, it's like why am I, why am I hunting and pecking through a website, you know, and trying to figure this out. So I see that social connection as a really main one. There's no doubt that that's number one. That's for sure. So yeah, that social connection. I love that you said, Danny, it's as simple as that. I know, I do. Now, along those lines, you have number two is impact. Talk to us about that. Right. So for a product, you would put up the return on investment, right? You'd put up your ROI. Your donors want to see what their impact return on investment is for that donation. So put up your stats, put up what that impact will actually be for their donation. So you're looking at the change in results that you have. They want to see numbers. That's what that impact donor avatar is. They want to see money for effort. And if they're giving you the money for you to make the impact on the cause, prove to them you can do it with legitimate stats. Are you suggesting this on the donate page, on the program page, on the homepage? I'm curious where you might put that impact. Absolutely. Great question. So my favorite phrase, and probably my client's annoyed how many times I say it, but content dictates design. So if you do not have enough content to flush out a beautiful page of impact statements, don't put it. It's going to look weak. It's going to look disingenuine. It's going to look non impactful. So put it on the donate page. Great. If you don't have a lot, but that'll give that donor a little bit more, oh yeah, that's great. They helped 10,000 foster care kids or whatever. But if you have it for a whole page, flush out that whole page 100%. Great. Yeah, that's really good. I've seen it off it on the donate page where we'll say, $25 will make this impact, $50 will make this impact. And I'm just as guilty to say, in my head, I anticipated putting in $40, but then I see what an additional $10 can do. And I think, why the heck not? If that increases the impact, then let's go there. So thank you for that. One of the things that we have mentioned, Julia, with our guest, is the donor avatar number three we're about to talk about. And this, as you have it outlined for us, Danny, is trust issues. So that donor avatar number three is all about trust. Talk to us about how we can show that on our website. Absolutely. So we've already kind of touched a little bit with this regarding our first one with the social connection. But it's essentially proving your legitimacy. Again, with names, photos, board, staff, but it's also proving with your transparency, your awards. Are you uncandid? Have you gotten a bronze or a platinum award? Like what other things have you proven your legitimacy and your authenticity and your morals and your ethics as a nonprofit? You need to make them front and center. Because, yeah, nonprofits can sometimes get a really bad rap as far as how they are managing their funds and putting that front and center along with donor or volunteer testimonials. Again, you're just going to catch them in the fields. You can be like, oh, these people are fantastic. They're doing this. They're doing that. Look, it's my friend on the board. And so it's going to make it hard for them to say, oh, they're not doing well. I think those should be on your folio page. If you have any certification, if you have any of those seals of approval, personally, I think, and I'd love to get your opinion on that, but there's a folio at the bottom of every website page. And I think that's where it should live. What do you think about that? Absolutely. I totally, I encourage all my nonprofits to put them on their footer. So yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing. I'm sorry. Absolutely. No, that's a publishing word. Yeah, the footer. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you want them there every single time. I encourage my nonprofits to also put their subscriptions or to sign up for the newsletter there as well. That should always be visible. 100% totally agree. Yeah. And you know, I love that you brought up Candid, formerly known as GuideStar, which I still find coming out of my mouth. And really, you know, those charity watchdogs have these seals of transparency. It makes it so easy to look into it. Now, before we got on the show, you said how the previous avatars kind of rolled into this one that we're going to talk about donor avatar number four is altruistic. So how does social connection impact and trust roll into the altruistic donor? Right. So our altruistic donors are the bleeding hearts, right? They're the ones that just want to give. They care about so much. And really, these want to hear your stories. They want to hear these testimonials. They want to hear how your cause is doing well. They want to see those beautiful pictures. And really, as I'm sure you guys can attest, you have nonprofits really aren't doing those graphic in your face images anymore. We're really going towards those beautiful storytelling, hopeful imaging. And so that sort of donor and that sort of avatar really just wants to hear beautiful stories. And that again, yeah, this is all building on on it on itself. Everybody, all these donors, all these avatars are people that just want to see your legitimacy. And you can hit on all these things in multiple areas of your website. But ultimately, they are small little checkmarks that you can add within a week to your website to make sure that you're touching base. I think I'm guilty of this number four, which is the altruistic. And I don't know if that's a bad thing, right? To be guilty of being altruistic. But really looking at, you know, as we said, so we're going through six donor avatars. The number one was social connection. Number two was impact. Three was trust and how those really stacked together to provide this altruistic. So my question for you, Danny, is how often should we be changing some of the content on on our website to keep touching on these? And I know we still have two more to talk about, but I'm curious if you can address that. Good question. That's a great question. Obviously, as a web designer, I say you should go in as often as possible. Definitely do not keep up old content, specifically for our trust issues avatar and for our impact avatar. They want to see current stats. If you have a stat up that is two, three years old, if you have an annual report that is two years old, you have lost them immediately. And so you need to have that information up. I would recommend at least monthly going in and updating your information. If you can go in more, that would be fantastic. But monthly, I would say is my bare minimum that you should be. That makes a lot of sense. And I know we're talking about website, but I'm sure when it comes to multi-channel marketing and communication, we're also speaking to these donor avatars in multiple ways. And so talking about the impact and changing those stats, maybe month over month, is that where you see? Yeah, hopefully. I mean, necessarily, you won't necessarily see a change in every single stat level and every single item that you're tracking, but you can certainly add a testimonial. You can add a new image. You can keep things fresh and showing that turnover and showing that breath and liability in your nonprofit keeps things moving. And it also shows that how you are working. And it can be something as simple as an image change out or something as simple as a color switch that keeps people interested, especially for your return visitors. Sure. I love it. Before we move on to number five, the field goods, I've got to ask this question and it kind of piggybacks on the question that Jared asked. And that is, to what degree, we have six of these. Are we saying one's more important than the other or when we're navigating some of these changes like color or photography or video or testimonials or impact metrics? Do we consciously say that's for the social connector or, I mean, how do you do it so that you're kind of covering all the bases? Oh, that's a good question. I think you kind of make sure if you have this list and you're watching this or whatever, but you're taking notes and you say, oh, we're missing that. As long as you have it to your site and then you keep those pieces updated, I think that's kind of where you should approach it. Ultimately, especially when we get to the last one, there's really no avatar that's more important than the other. We just want to be helping all of them to get to the final click and donate. But there's certainly one avatar that has a little bit more financial mobility, I guess you should say. Let's get on to donor avatar number five, the feel goods. Yes. Yeah, so these guys are our blend. These guys are our blend of our altruistic and our social and our impact. And so this is where our regular updates really kind of come in. They want to see all of our updates to our stories and our news and our blogs and where all you are being seen in the community. What sort of community partnerships do you have with other nonprofits in your area or in your field? And they want to see all those things being updated regularly because really they kind of touch on all these other parts, right? So as they feel good, yeah, they want the storytelling pieces, they want the testimonials, but they also want to see how their money is being used as impact and they also want to see their friends or names that they recognize. So they kind of really encompass multiples. Yeah. I like the feel goods one as well. And I could definitely see how that's how that's a blend of them. Is this also where the storytelling comes in, you know, like the success stories, which does build in that impact, right? But like really telling the stories of the clients or whatever it is that community as story, I can imagine the feel goods love to sink their teeth into those stories. Yes. And adding them to your newsletters. I've seen really great use of using a page as literally just stories. And it's a slideshow of your impact stories of your storytelling. So say it is a child whose life has been changed or a sex trafficking victim whose life has been changed. All those things you can just put up a testimonial and with some code or whatever, you can change out that picture each time it's selected each time it's brought up. And it's a whole new interactive and a whole new experience. And yeah, you can be really creative with what went to do that. Yeah. Well, let's take us to number six. And I know we've touched on a lot already. And again, in such a short amount of time, because these are the six donor avatars. And this is the one that you did such an eloquent tease to Danny. So a nod, a nod of congratulations there. Donor avatar number six, tax benefits. Tell us one. These are our financially mobile. Definitely, we should not say that any donor avatar is more important. But we all love in the nonprofit sector, the the nonprofits that are the foundations, whatever they shall be that just need to offload money. And we want to make sure that they see what they need to see. And that includes putting your EIN in the footer. That includes making sure you have your nonprofit status also available and quick and readily accessible for them to see. It's really super simple to make them super happy. They also would love to see transparency badges. But honestly, they're going to check your EIN, make sure you're good and standing and write you a check, make it easy for them, make sure you have your mailing address available. That's what they want to see. We love these two. We love the tax benefit donor avatar. And they do exist, especially with this, you know, wealth exchange that our nation is seeing. Julia, you remember when we talked about, and I think it was even a couple of years ago, when we were doing these episodes in IRL in real life, but really talking about this transference of wealth. And so to me, when you speak of this donor avatar, number six, the six benefits, that's exactly what I think about. Yeah. And they're honestly the simplest thing. They're an easy check off, check your website, make sure your EIN is very visible, put it in your footer and your folio like you mentioned and just crush it. Like that is a simple thing to check off today. Yeah. So go ahead, Julia. I was just going to say, you know, Danny, we always talk about this, but 1.8 million nonprofits. There are a lot of choices in this country for donors to make. And so there is a competitive set. But at the end of the day, this is the donor that's going to want to make sure that their donation is verified. It's actually going to count against whatever their tax liabilities are. And yeah, super, super important not to overstep that. And then, you know, especially, pardon me, Jared and I are very fortunate to live in a state where there is a tax credit issue that goes through our state. And more and more states are picking up on this. And that can mean some really serious money here. So you need to look at that if you're a qualified tax credit partner with whoever your state is. That's like free money, I think. Yeah. It is so much so, Julia, that I've heard so many nonprofit leaders saying that's not a true donation, which gets a little iffy, right? It's like, well, but it's still helping the bottom line of this. But you're right, many states within our US do contribute to that qualified charitable organization tax credit. And so speaking to that tax benefit avatar is so important. I imagine to you, Danny, you had mentioned these people just cut you a check. They're also doing gifts of stock, gifts of so many different assets. And so having, how might you talk to the tax benefit avatar when it comes to gifts of stock on the website? Are you able to talk to us about that? Absolutely. So if you do have something, if you do have a robust program where you've already built out that sort of philanthropic additional, you know, gifts of assets, you need to have that available and make sure that that is noted immediately on your website. There's been a lot more of a trend where you're really kind of like indexing your website in your footer a lot more versus really complicating your header navigation and your main navigation. Make that one of your lines, stock donation, stock asset, you know, however you want to phrase it, and make that a whole page and direct them on how they can give. I've also seen nonprofits giving hotel points and airline miles for different causes as well. Utilize those things, but at bare minimum, EIN should be in there, your 501c3 status or whatever your nonprofit status is. And then obviously whatever your donation and your donor management system, that should be included on every single letter you're sending and obviously follow up with all that. But from the website's perspective, absolutely. I love that you mentioned that navigation at the footer because I too have seen that as opposed to the, someone referenced it to me as like the hamburger stack on the top, which has this, you know, three or four lines, which looks like the bun and whatever inside your buns for that hamburger. Seeing that navigation, because I do that, I will scroll all the way down to the bottom and see how can I easily find that. So when we're thinking of these six avatars, my last and final question for you, Danny, is how do we blend the need of all of the interest of these six donor avatars into the multitude of pages? That's a loaded question, I know, but like what is your recommendation to blend what these avatars are looking for? Very loaded question. I think ultimately show your impact, whether that is through storytelling, stats, show your impact, show why you're doing what you do, what the problem is, how you fix it, prove to them your legitimacy, be consistent in how you show that messaging on your website and how you show your impact on your website and make it very clear who you are, what your status is, and what your EIN is. And hopefully with, if those are just your small little things that you do throughout your website, you should at least be capturing four of the six every single page and putting those things on your footer even better. Yeah, I will never look at a website the same again. I will always say, okay, where's avatar number one, number two, number three, all the way through because I would look at a website, Danny, and I would say, okay, twofold here for a website, one, the donor, but I kind of group them into just the donor and then two, the client base, right, like the service that we're providing to the community and just bifurcate into those two arenas. But now I see all of the branches that come from just that one side of the donor. So talking about these six avatars was extremely enlightening for myself. What about you, Julia? Yeah, I love this because I think sometimes, and you and I, we are looking like everyone else, but especially because this is our sector, we're looking at these websites, you know, morning, noon, and night, and they're such a difference. But I never thought about how we could really drill down and be sharing those messages for these different type of viewers. I think it's really smart. And, and Danny, one of the things you've made it very achievable, you know, by, by looking at these six, you know, avatars to understand, okay, there are bits and pieces, but let's not forget anyone. I love it. I think it's really smart and again, very achievable. And the perfect time of the year to be talking about this so that we can get this done and really be ready for the pushes that come forward. Danny McGregor, this has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you coming to us today on the nonprofit show to talk to about to talk with us about something that's very sophisticated. And yet it can be, it's very achievable, like we were just saying, Danny McGregor, check her out, the charity design code. And her website is the charity design.co. Check them out. And again, your website, of course, you're in web design. It's beautifully done. I love it. And so it's just really been a pleasure, Danny. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me. This has been so much fun to get nerdy and talk about nonprofits. So thank you. Anytime. If you want to talk nerdy, you are in the right right along with our viewers and listeners. Thank you so very much. As we start this week, I want to thank Julia. And maybe I'll thank myself as well. I really grateful to be here day in and day out to have these high level conversations with thought leaders, just like the one we just had with Danny. And again, we want to thank our sponsors that allow us these conversations. So thank you to our besties at Bloomerang, American nonprofit academy, fundraising academy at national university, nonprofit thought leader, your part time controller, staffing boutique and nonprofit nerd, a representative from each of these companies. Come on and join us each month to talk about what's going on and what they're seeing and what's trending. So really grateful to have their support and backing in these conversations. Without them, we wouldn't have this conversation of the donor avatars. So again, I will never look at a website the same. I will always want to say like, you know, where are we in these avatars and how are they blending that? So thank you for shining your light Danny on the websites and how we can integrate what our donors are looking for as they look at probably our highest digital asset, our website. So thank you for joining us. Thank you. Absolutely. Well, another great way to start off the week, Jared. I'm excited. I am too. Yeah, thanks for all of you joining us. As we end every episode, we like to remind you and us, ourself as well as our guests to please stay well so you can continue to do well. Thanks Danny and we'll see everyone else tomorrow.