 I have Doctor Kibata in the studio with me. He is an eye specialist. He is going to tell me the exact name also, because these medical terms become complicated sometimes, but Karibusana is a doctor. What is your title in particular? I am an ophthalmologist. Try spelling that. What is an ophthalmologist? An ophthalmologist is a doctor first of all. So you may find a basic medicine. Meliza, you have done internship one year. You have been registered by the medical board. Then you have worked a bit so that you... Experience is also very important. Yes, then you go back to the university for masters over minimum three years, usually three to five years. Then you come out, you work again for two years under supervision. Then now you are registered as a specialist, as a nice specialist by the medical board. That is an ophthalmologist. So an ophthalmologist is an eye surgeon who has also consult you out. If you find a pregnant woman, they can sort out. You know, if you break a bone, they'll sort you out. But they have decided they will specialize in eye care, in eye health. But there is also now several other people who are also in that space. The eye space. The eye space. Because we know opticians. We were told who treats the eyes optician. Exactly. And we found even in textbooks. That is how textbooks are. Yes, especially in primary. Yes, that's how they are written. There is an ophthalmologist. Then there is what is called an optometrist. Optometrist. Optometrist is the person who determines whether you benefit from glasses and if you do what power, what lens and how the power of that lens and what kind of lens. That is an optometrist. And in developed countries, they also taught some basics in emergency so that they are able to tell you, chief, you are going to lose your eye, go. So optometrist, is that a doctor or a physicist? No, no, no. Optometrist after high school you go and do a B.S.C. 3 years. Alright, so you study light. You study lenses. You study the optical system of the eye. Okay. Because you see the eye is a camera. So you just study the optics of that eye. So a little bit the technical side. Yes, the optical. The optics. How do we get you in focus? Assuming that your eye is good. So the ophthalmologist is the one who will tell you is your eye good. Fast. Fast. And then these guys need to determine that. Yeah, they tell you your eye is good. Everything is fine. But you are not focusing. Go and see an optometrist. They will sort your focus issue. Alright. Then there is an optician. Then there is an optician. Yes. Now once an optometrist tells you this is the lens you need. This is the power you need. The optician takes that lens and cuts it into the frame of your choice. So an optician is a technician. Do you recall it too? I see. He's a guy who cuts because those lenses come big. It's a big lens. But now the frame you might decide it's rimless. You might decide you want to wear. Does cutting it change the dynamics? No, no, no. He has to cut it in such a way that it fits the frame so that the field is well centered and does the job. So that's an optician. That's the one who fits that lens into your frame. Okay, I think we need to revise the syllabus in primary. Yes. Then there is an ophthalmic nurse. An ophthalmic nurse now is a nurse. They've done nursing. Then they go back and do a diploma in ophthalmology nursing. In eyes is very different from... Because the eyes are very, very sensitive. They have different animal law together. Then on top of that is also clinic officers. So you know the clinic officers, they do a diploma in medicine. They can also decide to specialize in eyes. So there is an ophthalmic clinic officer. You find a lot of them actually they are the frontline workers in government hospitals. When you walk into an eye unit, most probably you're going to find an ophthalmic clinic officer. The frontline workers. Very, very important cadre of workers. And in that they can also decide to specialize in surgery, cataract surgery. So you become a cataract ophthalmic clinic officer. They operate cataracts. So they are levels to all this. All right. And you all work hand in hand. You all work together. Yes, we all work together as a team. Everybody needs that. Yes, but you see now the problem now is to the general public, to the consumer. Everybody is the same. Everybody is the same. And everybody is an optician. Because every corner of the street there is a big sign, an optician. Can you see where all words are all over, we see billboards. Yes. So that's the... And unfortunately because of ethics and lack of regulation, anyone can open an optical shop. You need a business license. We need a business license. Yes, you enter city council, you pay business license. Then you can open an optical shop. I can start selling glasses. Yes. Yes. Without no training. You just need a computer status and you're in business. And because of that there's a lot of mismanagement. There's a lot of fraud. There's just a lot of wrong things. Because that industry... All right. Who's in charge rather? Who's in charge of legislation that controls? There's no one in charge of the optometrists. Yes. It is a bad situation in this government, in this country where this cadre of people who are offering care to humans but they are not regulated. Without proper training, without regulation. Yes. So that is something that needs to be sorted out because there's a lot of problems in that. And unfortunately you can't take them to... You can't take them anywhere. Take them to... Because there's no law. There's no board. There's no law. The only law is it's a business and they pay the city council. They have a license. Yes. And we're trying to grow the economy. Yes. We're trying to grow the economy. That's why we have the Wild Side Day. To raise awareness on this particular topic. Yes. To raise awareness on the providers, to raise awareness to the general population that look without sight. You are done. All right. A lot of things can go wrong. From your experience, what is the biggest problem when it comes to eye care? Let me start on the side of the patients or potential patients. What is the biggest problem? I think the biggest problem from the patient is ignorance. Ignorance. Yes. Lack of awareness. Lack of awareness in the sense that you just think that nothing can go wrong with your eyes. You always see. Yes, you always see. You wake up. You always see. You overlook that. You just think that you'll always see. But you can fail to see. So there is that ignorance that eyesight needs to be taken care of and you can lose it. Then there is the ignorance on, okay, so when you need help, where do you go? As you are saying, the first point of call is the optician. Who may be complete quak? Am I in business? Yes, in business. Yes, you work in there, regardless of what you have, you will work out with a pair of glasses. Yes, he is a salesman. He has to sell glasses. Then there is the ignorance on what are the common problems with our eyes. What are the things we need to look at? Yes, that is now from the general population. But there is also a lack of service. As well. Yes, you are somewhere in a town. Your nearest eye care provider is 200 kilometers away from you. I see. So even if you have a problem, it just takes so long to find help that you have a problem. So care providers are not enough? They are not enough. No, no, no. By any stretch. So people who are atronomaliza form force should join this? Yes, but they need to be prepared for ajani. For ajani, na kusomansan. Alright, thank you. Stats show that more than a billion people cannot see well. Yes. But let's bring it home. That's a billion people worldwide. Across the world. In this country, it is estimated that about 250 to 300 people, 300,000 people are blind. No, they can't see well. They are blind. Blind. 300,000 people are blind. Yes. Alright, so that can give you a rough idea of how many people cannot see well. And remember, once you're blind, there is a family member who has to stay home. It affects the old enemy. It affects the family. It affects your neighborhood. You are not productive. You are dependent. You have lost income. And it's statistics show that once you go blind, your risk of death is five times more than the average. Somebody who is blind is five more times likely to die earlier than you. 300,000. That's a big number. And then there is another like a million or two who can't see well. So we say they are visually visual impairment. Yes. There's a very huge chunk of this a million that drives on our roads. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. There are stories that I can't say on television. But a good case was a guy who operated on and he says, actually I'm just so glad. Now I can see. So I tell him, what do you do? I was a truck driver. I was a bus driver. Yes, we kwanza. Those are the worst ones. The other one was a watchman. I was just thinking I was pitting his employer. No watchman there. It's ironic. Can't see during the day what about next. This should not be funny. This should not be funny whatsoever. All right. What is the way for it? Now that we have this day, world site day. I think the way for it is to talk to the listeners and say, look, you need to understand that eyesight is very critical to your life and please take care of it. So how do you take care of eyesight? Number one, if you are hammering something and cutting something, we always recommend put protective glasses, especially artisans, grinders, carpenters, things like those. Things can enter your eye and damage you. We see all the time, we see nails, we see grinding particles, we see stones, we see all manner of things. So if you are dealing with high velocity stuff, buy a pair of glasses. Objective glasses. Yes, you just need something barrier so that if something flies in your eye. Doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. It's a barrier. That's kind of the basics. So protect your eyes. If you are in a field where things can enter into your eye, protect your eyes. Then you have the normal eye, which you are told from primary. Wash your eyes every morning. When you wake up in the morning. Yeah, wash your eyes. You want to protect your eyes. Then we have people who have diseases that can affect your eyes. What are some of these diseases? Top of the number one, two, three, four, five, is diabetes. Diabetes is number one, two, three, four and five. Diabetes affects people's eyes. But it does not need to. But people, you see the problem with diabetes that you see well until almost when you go blind. So you never see coming. Yeah, you don't see it coming. You also don't feel it coming. No pun intended. There is no pain. There is no pain. And you are seeing well. Until one day you wake up and you can't see. And then when you come to us, we tell you, sorry, it's too late. It's too late. But then you say, but I was seeing well last month. I said, no, no, what was happening in your eyes has been going on for a long time. So diabetes, and I want to speak to diabetics. Every diabetic who is listening here, you really need to get your eyes checked and please go to an eye specialist, not an optician. Regularly. Once a year. Once a year please. The standard of care, what we call standard of care, is that every diabetic should have his eye exam on the day the diagnosis was made and every year they are after. Every year they are after. If they did that, we can prevent 95% of diabetic related blindness. And the problem with diabetics, they go blind in their 40s, 50s, at the prime of their life. At the prime of their life. You know, you have children in high school, you have just at the pinak of your... It affects everybody around you. It affects everything. You have mortgages, maybe you have just retired, you want now to kind of enjoy. Sight is very important for the hassle. So there are diseases that affect eyes. Then now they are issues now of just growing old. So we say once you hit 40 or at least 50, have an eye check once a year. The eye has pressure and pressure is the second leading cause of blindness. That's why your eye doesn't collapse like a balloon. You know, it has a pressure inside that maintains that eye so that the atmospheric pressure doesn't just crash it. And so it has to balance that. That pressure sometimes goes up and the nerve dies. It's called glaucoma. Or glaucoma. That is what we call glaucoma. It's a second leading cause of blindness. Is it correctable? Can you correct it? It is not treatable, but it is preventable. It is preventable. But then it means we have to diagnose it before you go blind. Otherwise once you go blind you're blind. So most of these things are preventable. They are preventable. But they cannot be corrected. So it's very important to check. Some of them cannot be corrected. Some of them. Let's say some. So it's very important to get your eyes checked. Yes, once a year. Once a year. Just go for an eye check. Especially once you have 45 there. Once you start putting books there and here trying to figure out. Or you are found there. Yes. Then you know it's time to see somebody. Alright. Another thing that happens is you just walk into a shop in town. Yes. You buy glasses for swag. Not for sight. Yes. You just buy glasses for swag. Yes. And I remember my dad used to tell me you don't know what you put it in front of your eyes. Yes. It's a risk. You might be distorting your vision somewhere. Yes. Yes. Would you advise people to just buy whatever? So first of all people have to understand. They see with their eyes. They don't see with their eyeglasses. In fact I've always thought I should have an advert. You see with your eyes not with your glasses. And you put a big glass in front of you. So you see with your eyes not with your eyeglasses. So you have to make sure that your eyes are good. First. First. Look at your eyes before you figure out that it's your glasses. So you need to go to somebody who will tell you who will look at your eyes and tell you it's a focus problem. So go and get glasses. Alright. The problem is that it's easy because it's so accessible and easily you know you just walk into any optical shop. However having said that a well-trained optometrist and an ethical optometrist should do a basic eye exam. They should check your pressure. Look inside. Look at your nerve. Look at a few things. Just make sure you're fine. And if they detect something they should refer you immediately. Unfortunately that's not what happens. Then they're looking at sales. They'll sell you. They don't even do the basic test. And that is why we have all these problems. Alright. But not all of them. We have a few well-trained. Yes. Let's not spoil all the fish. Alright. Would the dark shades affect my eyesight if I wore them over time? No. Not really. Not really. Yeah. So there is what we call UV protection. And a whole host of other things that we talk about eyeglasses. And I say look unless you are a fisherman or a seafarer or unless you are in snow UV protection is just doesn't really matter. Doesn't really matter. Because unless you are looking at the sun why do you need UV protection? During on land you don't get reflection of UV once light reaches the ground. But on the sea and in snow it reflects. Next time you are going for holiday in the coast you better call me some UV protection. Yeah. We are going to be out there in the ocean. At the beach nothing is happening. The other big thing is also we find a lot of you know now during COVID everyone is on zoom everybody is on online classes. And there are a lot of issues about eyes because people are on a screen 24 seven. 24 seven. Yes. And so you will find now there are glasses written blue filter. I don't know the glasses for computers. And I want to say there is no evidence for that. That is just marketing. That is just marketing. However the way God made us bury God didn't make us to stare at something all day. That's not the way I... It's not natural. It's not natural. In fact if you stare at something you don't blink often because you are concentrating. And blinking is part of the care. And blinking helps to moisten the eyes. So what happens is you get dryness of your eyes. That is what gives all these problems you hear. Sensitivity to light. Niske kama kumuchangu na dani. Na umuahu ku. Na umuahu ku. Your tearing, your eyes are red. It's because you know you're on a laptop then you go on your WhatsApp then in the evening you're on I don't know what. It's very important to take a breather. Take a break. Yes. From your computer. And don't take a break and go to WhatsApp. Don't take a break of wine. Close your eyes, walk around and count butterflies, see the trees. Okay, another question that people always ask is it good to watch my TV in the dark? To turn off the lights? No, that one doesn't matter. That one doesn't matter. I can still enjoy my idea. An eye is designed to accommodate various light levels. It adjusts. So the eye is quite gifted. So from here I see this day was created to raise public awareness of blindness and vision impairment as a measure international and public health issue, influence government and ministries of health to participate and designate funds for national blindness prevention. I'm focused on this. A lot of funds was directed to COVID. A lot of funds has been directed to education now that kids are going back. Are we getting a substantial amount of funding when it comes to eye care? No, no. That one you can say outright? Yes. We don't get anywhere where... We don't get very little. We get very little? Very little. And I'm not faulting the government because when you have limited funds, you take care of what can kill people. Priority. Yes, eyes don't kill. They can just survive. Without your sight it has been shown on an economic study that the investment you put in eyes, you get back a fourfold return. Fourfold return? Yes. 400%. Let's do a simple case study. If you have a person who is blind from cataracts at home, the grandchild has to stay there or somebody has to be a caretaker. So first of all that caretaker has lost time and revenue. Yes? Taking care of that man. And that man is not generating nothing. And that man will hit his foot and form a wound which then has to be taken care of at the dispensary. You keep losing money? Yes. If that guy gets their sight back by investing 10,000 bob for a surgery, sites restoring surgery, the person, the caretaker is freed, that immediately becomes income generating. Even if he is just taking care of the animals. That person is no longer dependent in fact. He now becomes a productive member of that society. In that one year, that whole homestead and village changes. Just because of one? Yes, that investment. And so site restoring interventions are very, very, very impactful. Much more impactful if you look at just investment per dollar or per whatever it is, then any other condition. It reduces the stress on the person who has. This is a huge social return and an economic return. Wow. Yeah? Number two is being shown the worldwide that 30% of road traffic accidents are caused by eyesight problems. Yes? So investing in eye health might even impact our road safety. In the long run. So it has a lot of impact in different aspects in different fields. Across society. All right, so we need to take care of our eyes more. Yes. And we need more funding in this area. Yes, yes. All right. So somebody might be watching and they want to be like you. Yes. So you studied your first degree six years at Nairobi University. Yeah, yeah. Then you did your masters. Then you did the masters for another three years. And in between you have to work a few years. And then for me, I was a specialist in one particular part of the eye. It's called the retinus surgery. It's another two or three years of school. I mean my children told me we don't know what we want to do but we know what we don't want to do. All right. You've been in school your life. You'll enjoy nothing. But at least your health in the general public. It has an impact. I say bari without fear or shame. I give glory to God because what I am was a prayer answered. My dad went blind from diabetes. So it's a personal thing. So I know diabetes from both sides. I have lived with somebody blind at home and I have seen blind patients. And I prayed and I said, this is what I want to deal with. I don't want anybody's father going blind like my dad did. And God has answered that prayer. He's opened doors. I got scholarships that I didn't even apply for. And really I give him thanks. But nevertheless there is a road and a journey. And people who aspire to do where we are need to know and come to the cost. All right. But it's a very rewarding career. Very rewarding career. To give sight back to somebody is just heavenly. It's just heavenly. When people tell you, thank you, doctor. When they open their eyes like this and they say, wow. It's very fulfilling. Wonderful. So you ran now an eye hospital? We ran, I had a private clinic which then grew into an eye hospital. So it's called CTI hospital. We also have outreach programs. We go and find people who are blind and bring them in, operate them. At no cost to them. We meet that cost. But now we have partners. We had the Hilton Foundation was one of our partners. Fred Holos was one of our partners. And it's, well, those programs now have come to an end because of COVID because now we can't congregate. We can't bring people together. We also have a program that screens. It's a camera based screening program for diabetics. We have a special camera. It takes photographs. We're able to know immediately whether you are at risk of going blind and not. In fact, that program is probably going to grow digital so that now we then use artificial intelligence. That's where all this technology then comes. So that you take a photograph and AI process tells you whether you're normal or not. Also I can do it from home. You can do it remotely. Yes. All right. So the future is bright. The future is exciting. All right. Do we have enough innovators in this particular field in the country when it comes to... First of all, do we have enough doctors? All right. We need to start with the doctor. Before innovation, we have a problem. We have about 160 ophthalmologists. If you take a population of 50 million, that is even if our 200, that is one doctor for every 250,000 people. That is humanly impossible. That is not possible. Even in your lifetime, you can see 50,000. Out of those 60% are in Nairobi. So when you now take that ratio for the up-country, it's even worse. I get the point. Yes. There are some counties that don't have a nice specialist. There's a lot of improvement. So there's a lot of work that we need to do and that's why we have world-side day. To bring to fore such imbalances, such needs so that we govern nice resources to be able to do this. And then we need nurses. We need optometrists. We need opticians. We need clean co-officers. So the workforce needs that. But I always say, look at what M-Pesa has done for us. It has helped us leapfrog very many years and achieve a lot just by that technology. And that is what we actually need in healthcare. We really need to leverage technology to be able to serve a lot of people quickly. As if we wait for organic growth, the normal traditional ways of solving problems. We don't have that time and we are too far behind. We are too far behind. The world is so much for... Keep moving faster. So we need to use technology to get this process going. And I think one of the things that COVID has done is shown people that innovation can happen, problems can be solved, life can go on using technology and we should not now go back. We should use this to leverage, get 4G everywhere, get healthcare on the digital platform. Because people have phones now. The population of Kenya is with mobile phones. Actually smart mobile phones is very high. I'm told it's more than 80%. Kenya is laughter in the world because when we go to conferences, people say that country that has more phones than toilets. You have had this first time. Yes, on the world platform. Information is more important than toilets. Anyway, on behalf of the people you represent, what are you doing to commemorate the day today? We are supposed to have a work. We are supposed to blindfold people from parliament to work to the minister of health. So that they see. So that they understand what it means to have. Unfortunately, today's COVID and the CS and the whole group of minister of health they are in Kitale. So the work can't happen but there is going to be an emphasis on ICA from the CS, from the highest level of health. We are going to commemorate people, partners who have worked with us. Standard charter, standard charter marathon. Seeing is believing. Yes, yes, yes. That money raised went to ICA. They did a lot of work. We need more initiatives. Yes. Fred Hollows, Operation Icite Universal, CBM. There are many partners who have worked with us and helped us. And so there is going to be also a launch. There is a strategic plan that is being for 20, the next five years in ICA which should be ready this year. So the CS is going to lead the nation in commemorating outside day and highlighting the achievements and also enumerating the challenges that we see. I'm glad it's happening from the top. Yes. I'm glad we are very able gentlemen like you. Yes. Yes. Another body. Yes. This right there. Yes. But for those who are watching and would like to get in touch with you. Yes. Because they probably have a relative Yes. who is suffering or they are suffering themselves. How can they get you? Well. The camera is that one. So CTI hospital is on Gongrod opposite traffic police. It's a street for a place. That's a general hospital. There is no, you just walk in. We open Monday to Friday. Right now it is 7 to 1 PM. We have a private clinic which is by appointment. You can get us on social media. We are on Google my business. We have a website. Facebook. Just go there. You will find us. Alright. You are everywhere. CTI hospital. CTI hospital. Alright. Thank you very much for coming through the time. Thank you Barry. And keep doing what you do. In an exciting discussion right there. Alright. Say hi to the kids for me. Yes. Wambiyo, do you happen to listen to hip-hop music by chance? No. No. What is your kind of music? I am a gospel man. You're a gospel man. There's gospel hip-hop. Very good gospel hip-hop. I like jazz. Oh, you like jazz music? But most of the time ninafanya wakenya kasi. Ninafanya wakenya kasi. There's no time for music. But say. Alright. Thank you very much for coming through. We appreciate you. We are still having that conversation on Facebook. We are asking you to tell us Calligraph Jones favorite line. Your favorite line from Calligraph Jones. Let's vote for him. Let's help him bring this award in Mbani. We already have the world record for the marathon. We already have a world record for so many races. Let's bring this BET Award home as well. We'll be back with some more hip-hop Thursday and try to do something to help commemorate this world site day. It could be a tweet. It doesn't have to be so much. Just a tweet and create awareness. We'll be back with some more of this.