 Welcome back for the second session. Thank you for joining in. Hope you had a good break. Pastor Jakes, we will continue with the second session as well. So over to you, Pastor Jakes. Thanks, Roshan. OK, so I think Sid and Dave has already mentioned that he's joining. OK, great. So we'll just continue with where we stop. So we looked at the importance of what happens when we worship together as a congregation. So we see the beauty of it. We see the importance of it. So how do we bring that about in our congregation? I'm sure you've been to maybe some visited a church or maybe went for a conference. And we saw, you heard, and you were part of this worship time. And you just wondered, how is it so wonderful? How is it so beautiful here? And how can we have that in the place where I'm from? How can we have the same thing? What can we do to have the same thing? So I remember attending a worship conference. And then just seeing people just worshiping God and in an uninhibited manner, just expressing their worship to God. And so wonderful things were happening. So then the person who was sharing the word said that this is not something that happened today or yesterday. It's not because of something that happened today or yesterday. It's been a culture. It's something that has been laid out through the years. And that is how we are where we are today. And I'm sure even in our personal lives, we are where we are because of some of the things that we have done and we keep doing. We have arrived where we are. So similarly, when we look at the church, when we look at the fellowship, that when we want to bring in something, saying, OK, I want to develop the congregation in worship, then we see that it is something that is going to take time. It is going to be a journey. And it involves intentionally putting down something that we call as culture, the culture of worship. So let me just share the text again. So we need to be creating a culture of worship or putting down a culture or developing a culture of worship. Now, when you look at the word culture, this is what the dictionary says. One definition of culture is the ideas, customs, and social behavior. Ideas, customs, social behavior of a particular people or society. So that is what we normally call as culture. So when we say a culture of worship, again, transferring this, you see the ideas, the customs, and the manner in which we worship. So culture, it can be good or bad. It can be misplaced. It can be, it need not be based on truth. You have certain culture and certain traditions that it need not be edifying. It need not be truthful. It can be something that is totally false. It can be something that's even, what do you say, something that's not edifying the body, something that's bringing in damage rather than something good to the body. So we need to be careful what kind of culture that we are building in the church, among the people. And the thing about culture is that it's like an unwritten rule. It's not something that is there as an instruction manual. It's there, but it has to be intentionally developed. But still it's there. You just walk in and then you feel, OK, this is how it is. This place is friendly or this place is intimidating. It's the culture which is there. I remember the place where I worked initially, the first two places where I worked. I was required to wear a tie to office. So wear a tie to office and go. That was the culture. And that was something that was laid down. And then another place where I worked, the last place where I worked, you don't have to wear a tie. You just go and fully wearing a tie and then going all formal. And they said, hey, at the interview, you don't have to wear a tie, you don't have to. So you see that culture and you address people by their first names. It might be a vice president of the company and you don't have to call that person a sir. You just call them by a first name. You say, hey, John, that's a culture there. Similarly, a culture of worship, which is based on truth, which is based on the truth, which is based on whatever we have learned in the last session. This is what can happen. So how do we build a culture of worship? The first thing, we look at four things. If you want to break it down, what will actually bring in that kind of a culture of worship? First thing is the revelation, meaning that an awareness and uncovering of spiritual truth, a revelation of truth. It's like my eyes are open to the truth. This is something that is scriptural. Maybe it could be about worship itself. I remember one person saying, we don't need to have worship. We don't need to have singing before our time of preaching. Anyway, God's presence is there. Just singing just won't bring in the presence. I already, God's presence is there. I don't need to sing. I'm straight away getting to the message. So I know people are there with different backgrounds, different church backgrounds. So it's good to have a common understanding of what worship is. So a revelation about worship. And that revelation, that spiritual awareness or uncovering, that happens when there is a teaching. When there is a teaching on it. Like, if you look at Isaiah 6 and verses 1 to 8, and I'm not putting the verses there, but you see that Isaiah has a revelation and his eyes are opened to the holiness of God. His eyes are open to the amazing way in which God is worshiped. And he hears these things, he sees these things. He has this encounter. He has this encounter. And there's a revelation of the holiness of God and the beauty of God and the awesomeness of God. We see that in Isaiah 6 and verses 1 following. So there needs to be a teaching that leads to an encounter. When there's a teaching, then people see for themselves, okay, this is what the Bible says. A teaching on the expressions of worship. Because people think, hey, this is for young people. Hey, this dancing, this jumping, it's for young people. This lifting of hands, it's for the Pentecostal church. This clapping, oh, it's for those people who wear white. All those kind of things, oh, this is so undignified. Because people come with all these baggages or backgrounds, and, but they are sincere. It's not that they have anything against, they are sincere. And this is the understanding. So when there is a revelation, they will be changed. And when they act on that revelation, they will be changed. But that revelation about, we are specifically talking about worship, will come when there is a teaching. When we teach, and that teaching can come in several ways. One, there could be probably a message or a sermon series. So formally, over time. So there is a teaching about worship, different aspects of worship. Or it could be even during the time of exhortation where the worship leader, the worship team is there and there's an exhortation. And typically you look at, let's say Psalm 95, and you see that several postures of worship are there. If you can turn there, Psalm 95 talks about singing, shouting, coming before his presence with thanksgiving, shouting joyfully, kneeling down and bowing down. And we see all those mentioned there in those few verses. So something like that. It can be a short time of exhortation before we actually start to lead people into worship. So it can be a powerful time. One aspect of it, one thing, then maybe that person has never seen that before, never heard that before. Or maybe even clapping our fans and you see that in scripture and then you see that, okay, this is something I can do. Oh, this shouting thing, it's not just an emotional outburst, but it's actually scriptural. And there's something there that something happens. God has laid that there, put it there for a purpose, right? So there is teaching and there is revelation from which the Holy Spirit brings, is the one who guides us into all truth, right? He's the one who opens our hearts, opens our understanding. And he shows us what truth is, right? So there is by teaching. So, okay, let me just put it. So the first thing is, okay, there's speaking. Secondly, it's also by demonstration, okay? By example, so it's by demonstration, which means that it's not enough for me to teach, but I need to do, okay? Now, as a pastor, if I'm teaching on worship, the people will look at me when there is a time of worship to see what I actually do, and maybe as a pastor or as a leader, and if I'm disinterested, if I'm just standing there like that, or if I'm checking my phone, or if I'm talking to someone during the time of corporate worship, then I'm sending a different message, right? Even though we might have a four-part series with audio visuals and everything, we are sending a different message when we demonstrate, when we live it out, right? So it has to be both, it has to be in practice, it has to be in precept, in principle, you know, what we are teaching. So when both go hand in hand, it is something which is very, very powerful. So as a ministry team, as a pastor team, we engage in worship, right? And not just to show others that, hey, I'm a worshipper, but truthfully, you know this is the truth, and so you engage in worship. And there's a lot that the congregation also picks up when the leaders engage in worship. If the leader does not give, I mean, maybe as a worship leader or as a worship minister, as a worship pastor, if I'm on stage, if I'm worshipping God, but then off stage, if I do not, right? When I'm sitting in the church, in the congregation, if I do not engage in worship, then I'm again sending a different message. So teaching comes by, you know, revelation comes by teaching and by demonstration, right? We show, we demonstrate by example. And that's why Paul writes to Timothy and I think it's in 1 Timothy 4 and verse 12. Okay, let me just give that verse. 1 Timothy 4, and this is verse 12. Yeah, 1 Timothy 4, 12. There's a, let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers. Okay, so if you look at the verses before that, he's, and also after that, he's talking to Timothy about the importance of the word and how he needs to rightly divide the word and so on. And then here he says, even after this, right? He says, give attention to reading, exhortation, doctrine, verse 13. But in verse 12, he says, no, let no one despise your youth, but you be an example to the believers. And he writes six things, I think, yeah, in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity, right? So he writes about this, you know, you be an example to the believers. They're looking to you, they are looking at you and it's not enough just, you know, when you just teach, but you need, your life needs to show it. So there can be a powerful thing, you know, when you say, okay, lift your hands and you lift your hands. Or if you're, you know, when you say shout and you're shouting, when you say, you know, whatever, there you are showing by example, you're demonstrating to the church that this is what it is. So there is a revelation which comes, right? The second one, what revelation will bring about is conviction. Okay, so what conviction is that it's a confidence and okay, maybe confidence is the wrong word. Conviction is you know for sure in your heart that something to be true, something to be right is a conviction. It's a deep down in your heart. You are sure that this is what, this is what, it's true, this is truth. So when you're convicted in your heart, then, now that conviction is very, very important for action, right? Because otherwise you might do it because, yeah. Sorry to interrupt, the screen is gone blank. I'm not sure if it's a... Oh, I see, okay. Is it okay now? Yes, now we can see. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, okay. Thanks. I think when I minimize it, it just goes blank. Sorry, sorry. Yeah. So, so conviction, right? So it's something that you are convinced about something. It's something that you are strongly believe in, right? That's a conviction. So, so conviction is very, very important, right? Because we might do certain things because somebody is saying it. And when you move that somebody out of the way, you won't continue in it, right? You might have, you might say something, okay, okay, this guy's putting pressure on me, let me do it. But you yourself personally are not convicted, right? But when you are convicted, then irrespective of whether that person is there or not, you will still do it, right? Whether you're alone or whether you're with, you know, a different set of people, you will still do it because you are convicted. You believe strongly in it, okay? So revelation brings about conviction, right? Internally, and of course we are depending on the spirit of God. And there's nothing like what the spirit of God, how he can expose truth, explain truth to us, right? In a way we understand. And sometimes we don't even know the reasons, but we know deeply that this is true and that's the work of the spirit, right? So it brings about conviction. And when we are convicted, when there is conviction, then there is action. We are moved to act upon it. We are moved to action. We say, okay, I know I don't feel like it, but I'm convicted in my heart. I know this is true. Let me do it. I know people are watching, but I know that in my heart, I know to be true that God is worthy of praise and worship. And I know I'm a shy person, but I don't care here. You come to that place of action because you are convicted. You know this to be true, right? So conviction leads to action. And you see, you know, it's wonderful to see people, different temperaments, different church backgrounds, and they are coming there and they've made that journey, those steps of, you know, having received the teaching revelation and having been convicted in their hearts and having that experience and moving to action. And you see people just opening up, worshipping God. People who I remember in our life group, you know, we used to have a life group those days. And there's one person who will never pray out in public, never pray in public. Whenever, you know, we used to have a notebook, write down prayer points, and then you just pass it. Okay? So you're supposed to, you know, take the next prayer prompt, read it out, pray. Whenever it comes to him, he'll say, pass. He did that for many, many years, till such time that he had a revelation, a understanding, and he was able to, he said, okay, I'm going to take the step. I'm going to pray out loud. There's nothing, you know, there's nothing that's going to happen. There's nothing bad that will come out of it. I'm going to take that step, I'm going to do it. So, and then even in corporate worship, we saw the same thing that is very inhibited, but then was able to, you know, just open up and worship. So imagine if that happens to the entire congregation. Right? And as leaders, we need to facilitate that and not hinder that, not hamper that, right? Sometimes it's like in our enthusiasm, we hamper it in the sense, you know, we say, come on, come on, why not do that? And then people are going further and further into the shell, into their caves. They're saying, no, no, I can't, I won't, right? But when we teach, and when there is a conviction, then there will be action, right? So that action leads to destiny, right? Right, where things were closed and maybe they were headed somewhere, now they are headed to a different destination itself. It changes the destiny. It changes the spiritual level of the church. It changes the spiritual atmosphere of the church. And because here we see people who are maybe indifferent to worship, right? Indifferent to maybe the things of God coming to a place of hungering after the presence of God. You see in your own lives, how did it happen? It was a journey, right? It was a journey, constant revelation, your understanding, you saw it in the world, you experienced, you had an encounter with God and it changed the way you pray, the way you worship, the way you live, everything changed, right? It was a journey. So we need to, we need of course, give time and we need to understand that it's a journey, that it's going to be a process, but we need to keep at it, right? So those four things, you know, revelation, conviction, action and destiny, right? And maybe we should just look at Isaiah chapter six. It's wonderful when we see the kind of thing that happens, Isaiah six, you know, verses one. Let me just read, in the year that King Isaiah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne high and lifted up and the train of his robe filled the temple, right? And then it was, sorry, yeah, let me just read. Fill the temple above stood Seraphim, each one had six wings, with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, with two he flew. And one cried to another and said, holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. The whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out and the house was filled with smoke, okay? Verse five, so I said, woe is me for I am undone because I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips. For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. So Isaiah has this encounter and that results in a revelation, his eyes being opened, he sees the holiness of God, he sees the beauty of God in his temple and he sees himself for who he is. He sees himself and he says, oh, I was doing the right things, I was saying the right things, but I see now that I'm a man of unclean lips and I see my environment and we are, I'm in the midst of people of unclean lips. I've seen the King, the Lord of hosts, right? And from then on, there's something else happens. Then one of the seraphim flew to me having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar and he touched my mouth with it and said, behold, this has touched your lips, your iniquity is taken away and your sin purged, okay? And I also heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send, who will go for us? Now, first he sees, he's a man of unclean lips, he's dwelling among the people of unclean lips. He says, woe is me, oh, I'm actually cursed. Bad things are gonna happen to me, woe is me, I'm undone. But then he has, he receives this word, he receives this message and he has this experience of the coal being touched, the coal from the altar touching his lips and the word that this has touched your lips, your iniquity is taken away, your sin purged, okay? And that results in something in his heart that there is a change. He's no more saying, I am a man of unclean lips. He's coming to the place of confidence and he's saying, here I am, send me. What resulted in that? What resulted in that? He says, you know, in response to the question, whom shall I send and who will go for us? Then I said, here am I, send me, okay? There is a complete change, there's something deeply, deeply, you know, something has happened in his heart. And he's received that message of cleansing and purification, sin being taken away and he suddenly, there's confidence, confidence to serve the one with whom he has had an encounter, with whom he had seen the beauty. And he says, here I am, send me. So, you know, just transferring that to worship or worship ministry and, you know, building that culture. When people have that encounter, when people have or receive the revelation, revelation by teaching, by demonstration. And I think the third thing we can add is also by encounter, there's nothing to replace that, you know, they just encounter and that's the best lesson ever. That leads to conviction and that leads to action. They take a step and you see more and more of people participating, engaging, going after God. It's not just an enthous crowd. You can have an enthous crowd, but not really deep happening. You know, people are not really engaging with God. You know, enthusiasm doesn't mean that they're engaging with God. Something deep has to happen in their hearts. In their hearts, they're there pursuing. In their hearts, they're going after God. In their hearts, when they sing, they're really meaning it, right? So, they're engaging, they're going after, okay? Okay, some other practical things when we're developing the culture of worship in our own lives is, of course, to study the word of God, which results in revelation, teaching, right? Praying, which results in encounter, which God again, reveals his truth to us and gets ingrained in us. And what really helps us as worship ministers is to expose ourselves to different styles of worship, and saying, okay, there's a place here. There's a place in worship for this as well, right? Which is rooted in scripture, which is not something, it's not a fad, different forms and styles of worship. There is a place for maybe reading of scripture, reading of prayer. There is a place for spontaneity and overflow of the heart. There is a place for declaration of truth, you know, powerfully, vociferously. There is a place of, you know, being in that, being in awe of God and there are no words, right? There are no words, there are no songs, there are no music, and there is that moment of just contemplating and looking at the beauty of God. There is a place for that, right? Well, we know that some churches can be very, very expressive in their praise and worship, praise, but not really so in terms of adoration of God and then some, maybe, so when we look at our own churches, places of, places where we are fellowshiping, we know, okay, this is something that we can go further in. These are something, this is one area where we are strong, right? So when we study, when we study the different expressions of worship, when we study that different form, the different styles, we understand that, okay? And maybe we can take the congregation, you know, into that. Yeah, okay, so I think we've come to the end of chapter seven. So we've kind of understood what we need to do to develop a culture of worship, you know? I just wanted to say that it's going to take time. Okay, it's going to take time. You know, if it is a church which already has a certain form of worship, then it's going to be even more difficult, right? Whether it's a church that is being planted and something that has started afresh, then it's going to be so much relatively easier in comparison, but you know, because you're starting right with, you know, you're starting from the first step with the right foundation. So, you know, you're just laying the steps there. But it's a journey that we all make. And as our understanding of God deepens, as our encounter with God happens, then we see this culture of worship getting deeply ingrained, okay? And flourishing and thriving. Will there be attacks against the culture of worship? Yes, we need to guard, we need to be on guard. It can come in various ways, like, you know, discouragement or, you know, maybe, you know, maybe a certain coldness towards worship itself. So we need to guard ourselves personally and guard the ministry team itself. You know, when you notice it, you know, just encourage the people, share people. And maybe, you know, sometimes it could be a misplaced focus, a focus on, you know, maybe on something else, right? Something else, maybe a focus on, maybe a focus on the form and not really the heart of worship, right? So those are times when we can encourage the team, encourage the ministers to slowly just come back here. This is what it's about, right? Yeah, so any questions here? If, oh, Roshan, if you want to share something more. Thanks. Oh, this is a book called Leadership Pain by Sam Chan. Okay. Sorry, I think I muted myself there. Leadership Pain, is it? Yeah, Leadership Pain by Sam Chan. He says about culture that, you know, no matter how good a vision is, if the culture is not healthy, you know, people will not like being around. And the example that he gave was, imagine serving a delicious food on a dirty plate. Like, so no matter how delicious and how beautiful the food looks, you will still not eat off a dirty plate. And so you're referring to culture as that. And so I think individually, all of us, you know, wherever God places us, we just look, okay, you have a vision for where God places you for the ministry that you're in. And then, and if the culture, if you don't set the culture as a leader, and I think the culture will be set for you. You know, you might like it or not like it. So I think, you know, it's beautifully put across, you know, and so, yeah, that's the only thought. Yeah, yeah, so true, so true. Yeah. Yeah, and then we sometimes realize, you know, where is the struggle, you know, we're doing all this. And then, but then you look and then you see that we need to, it's, we need to change the culture because it's something that you, it's unwritten, something that you, everybody picks up, right? Maybe somebody just joins new, they just pick up because that's what everybody's doing, the custom is that. So we need to be careful, yeah. Okay. Any questions, anyone? Okay, so, so I would just say, you know, just be aware of this, okay. And you initiate this, you know, as a leader, if you're there, you know, you initiate it and then establish it and build it intentionally. Maybe the culture's already set, you know, maybe you're serving in a team and maybe some of us are in that place, you know, serving there, there is a culture, just maybe one of the exercise that you can do is find out what is it, you know, what is healthy about this, what is unhealthy about this. And, you know, that would be a good way for us to be, you know, for us to get exposed, for us to become sensitive, become aware of, okay, these are some intangibles, you know, that I see, you know, this is a culture here. And so, you know, wherever you can bring in a change, change is always brought up, we can do a bit, right? But it is, it needs to be set by the leaders, right? So that's, that is something that, you know, you can do as a leader, or you can have a conversation with a leader and say, hey, we need to, this is not healthy, right? Of course, we're talking about the team and so on, right? Okay, so let's continue. We are going on to chapter eight, which is, yeah, which is about indigenous and regional languages and expressions, right? Indigenous worship, meaning, you know, worship in your own language. And, you know, how will that help? How will that help? Let's look at that, okay, let's look at some. Okay. See now, when we look at our country, you know, our nation India, you know, we, it's a very complicated place, right? Complicated in the sense it's a complex place, you know, like if you look at our own classroom, we see people from, you know, different parts of our nation and yeah, maybe I'll just minimize this. Okay, we, different parts of our nation, like, cities from Mysore, princes from somewhere up North, you know, Kiran is in Calcutta, Kannan, down South, Tamil Nadu, you know, and we hear we are, you know, sitting in Bangalore and different languages, you know, we are aware of different languages, we speak different languages and, you know, we feel comfortable worshipping the Lord in a certain language, okay? Now, let me tell you my comfort level and whatever, you know, I speak, my mother tongue is Tamil, right? So we speak Tamil at home for the most part, I speak Tamil with relatives and so on. So that is my mother tongue. But when I, the church that I went to, right, we, it was an English speaking church for whatever reason we went there and when I accepted the Lord, I prayed in English, okay? It was not in Tamil, I prayed in English and the songs that I sang to him in worship were in English, everything worship was in English and so on, right? So it's not that I cannot pray or I cannot sing in Tamil or worship God in Tamil, but I feel much more comfortable in English, okay? So that is, so you see, that's one complexity, okay? The level of complexity. Though I know the language and I'm from a different language background, I speak comfortable, I am comfortable in this language, worshiping God. So in, yeah, Kiran and I, I'm just putting it back. Okay, so in our congregation, especially in a country like India, we need to understand, of course, where are we? First of all, where has God placed us and who are the people who are coming to worship? Okay, who are the people? And, you know, God has anointed you and, you know, given you a vision to reach a people with a message and you're the messenger, you're the man, you're the messenger. And so we need to understand our congregation and see, okay, you know, what is the kind of congregation? What is the demographics, you know, their age, their language, et cetera, okay? And it's a little more, it's a little complex because like I said, you know, you might be from a certain part of the nation, you might be speaking a certain language at home, but you are comfortable worshiping God, you know, in a different language altogether, right? So all these are factors, so we need to understand it. Now, we may not be able to, just because in the congregation you have 20% of people speaking Tamil, we have 20% of people speaking Malayalam, you have 20%, you know, maybe 50% speaking Kannada, or, you know, we cannot cater to everybody, you know, it's going to be difficult, right? But at least you know that, okay, majority, you know, 90% of the people are comfortable or pray in this particular language or okay with this language, then, you know, let's have the worship in that particular language, okay? So language is one main thing that we need to consider, okay? When it comes to worship, okay? The second thing is also the genre of music, okay? So you see, this is another layer, like language, okay, you have so many, you kind of decide, okay, this is what, this is the language we can go with, right, for most, for the most part. Then there is a genre of music also, you know, which is, which is again, not a major factor, but it is a factor, right? Maybe you're, let's say, karnatic music or Indian classical and you as a leader, this is something that you're exposed to, this is what you can relate to and this is what you are, maybe the worship team is skilled at and if you see that, you know, the congregation is not really engaging with that, then maybe it's time to re-look, right? Or maybe the congregation is something, you know, it can engage with this, are familiar with this genre of music, you know, maybe the instruments that we use and so on. Then by all means, we can go with that, okay? So genre of music also, very important, you know, like sometimes people say, you know, you're an Indian, what is this, you're playing all, you know, you should use tabla, you should have Indian instruments, you should have Indian instruments, well, nothing wrong, definitely we can, but, you know, is it something that people can relate to? Like I'll tell you, for example, you know, in one of our locations, North, APC North, I was just thinking about it this morning, you know, I went to lead worship once, okay? Then I, when I went up, when I went up front, I was wondering, you know, is it India or some other country, right? This was at a time when we had a lot of African students from Uganda, from, you know, other, lot of African students and they would come, we had a, you know, like we had a bus facility arranged and so on, so I went up and I saw, you know, 50, I think you guys, most of you, you know, you were here, you would help out in North location. I went there and I saw about 50 or 60 students and they're all Africans. I felt that they were, you know, I'm in a different country altogether, all Africans. And, you know, and so a Hindi song will not make a, you know, will not cut things through, right? Of course, you know, they were very, very accommodative and we used to do songs like, you know, Eshwati Ranaam and, you know, other songs. They were very, very into, they learned the songs and so on. But, you know, the minute you see, I was there, you know, I used to go there on and off and I saw a bunch of African students leading worship, right? We used to have some friends, African students who were part of the worship team, maybe you've met some of them, Rebecca and Ruan. So they were leading worship. So they sang, they sang a little differently. The beat was a little different, the percussion was a little different and they sang one of, I don't know which African, Swahili or something, they sang that and the place exploded, right? I'm at the back and just watching the place just moved. You know, it was different to when I was leading, you know, how, why didn't this happen? You know, it was not that, you know, the God's presence was not there, God's power was not there. But it's just that people were open, people were, you know, engaging differently. And the same thing happened when we went to Siliguri. We went to Siliguri, we sang Hindi songs, okay? Now these were, we went on a mission trip. And these were people from West Bengal, actually, right? So they were from Calcutta, they were from other places, they had come. Now we said, okay, we're going north, as far as, you know, anywhere from the Southern state we are pushing up, that's not, so we'll sing in Hindi. Okay, so we sang Hindi songs and we went ahead with the Hindi songs that we knew, like the songs that you guys would have probably heard, you know, Eshwati Ranaam, you know, Hotheri Stuthi, Rarathna, you know, Hamgaya Hosana and all those songs. And then something was not happening, right? And then there was a group which came from, I forget the place again from West Bengal somewhere, they came and they played, the place, people who were, you know, finding it difficult to lift their hands, we're now dancing, right? What was the difference? One, they sang in Bengali. Two, the genre of music was different. Like here we were, even though we were singing Hindi, like the genre of music was very, very Western, right? That is what we knew, that is what we were exposed to. So we would build up, you know, dynamically, we would build up, we will bring it down. Here there was only one dynamic, level 10 throughout, okay? They will start and then the beat would be, you know, typical folk beat, you know, that is how it would be the whole song, but the place exploded in worship. So it's not, you know, whether it's good, bad, whether it's, you know, it's just that people are able to engage. This is what they're exposed to, this is what they bring them out and they engage. So language, genre of music and genre of music, of course, helps us in, you know, choosing what instruments do we use when it comes to percussion? Do we use a drum? Do we use a dohlak? Do we use a mirthangam? Do we use, you know, having said all that, I know that, you know, God's presence will cover, right? God's presence will cover everything, but we need to be, it's good for us as worship ministers to be aware of that, to be sensitive to this so that we can facilitate, right? And sometimes we need to make some sacrifices. I mean, I, you know, I'm thinking of William Carey. William Carey, when he came to, from England, like, you know, he worked in a cobbler shop, cobbler by profession, you know, making shoes and studied theology on his free time, during his lunch break and everything, studied the Bible and then came here and learned the language. And he ministered, you know, by the Bible translation. Of course, God has called him, God called him for that particular unique call, mission, right, translated the Bible into several Indian languages, including Hindi or South Indian language. He learned it, he translated it. He had someone teach him, in fact, I think it was a Hindu priest who was there who taught him Sanskrit. So he did all that, you know. So it's going to, you know, make us uncomfortable, right? See, I've never sung Hindi songs, you know, for me. So it's really an effort, you know. And I remember the time that Roshan and I, we went to Chandigarh for a mission strip and then the plan was that we'll have a half night of prayer and worship. But the thing is, it's going to be in Hindi, you know. We went with a lot of dependence, a lot of fear and trembling, because none of us were, you know, Hindi speakers, right? But we had to kind of improvise. We had a translator, thankfully, who could speak in Hindi, when who was translating in Hindi, who could sing in Hindi? So that helped. So we would sing something spontaneous. He would not only translate, but sing that same thing, a prophetic phrase or utterance, he would sing it in Hindi. So that helped. So we had, I'm saying that, you know, it is not a comfort zone, right? It's great to have people who would actually do it, I think. But as, you know, people, as worship ministers, to be sensitive, to be aware, and to facilitate others in that, right? So here are some practical things that we could look at. Okay, I think we'll just go through this quickly. One is to have the language service, okay? Let's say, okay, you have a lot of Hindi-speaking people or people who speak Kannada or whatever language, and you say, okay, we're going to have this language. Okay, since the majority, you know, we have a lot of people, there is a need, we have a Kannada service or we have a Hindi service, then, you know, we are able to help better. If that is not possible, then we could have the songs that we are doing, we could probably learn the language and then, or, you know, learn those songs and sing it. Or we could see if the same song that we're singing, is it there in Hindi or is it there in another language, like a bilingual, so you could sing that as well, use that in worship, right? So, yeah, since not all songs have translations in the local language, we might have to translate it, we might have to do that, and we might have to sing a few songs, maybe a new song, learn a new song in that language alone, which helps, you know, and time and over and over again, you know, we've seen that it really opens up people's heart to worship God, right? Which is really the objective of every worship minister. I mean, you're there to worship God personally, but you're also there to facilitate and enable the church to worship, even as you worship God, right? So, that's the objective of the worship minister. Okay, another thing to keep in mind, if you're singing a song in another language, be very careful, like learn to pronounce the words the right way, because if you learned it the wrong way, if you're pronouncing it the wrong way, it could be, you know, a totally different meaning in that language, and it'll be embarrassing, and people, you know, people will be hindered more than helped, right? So, learn to pronounce the words the right way, and say it in the right, sing it in the right manner, then it won't be distracting to the worshipers, right? And it will also help if the worship leader knows the language and can transition into exhorting in that language, not only just singing, but exhorting, right? Leading the congregation, saying God is good or come, you know, why don't you lift your hands and worship? Saying those words or exhorting the congregation in the language greatly helps, right? So you could do that, we could probably have someone else on the team who can speak and you can exhort the congregation, right? So this is something for us to be aware of and to be sensitive to, especially in a country like us, right? I don't know how many other nations have this, you know, have this as a challenge, but definitely in our nation, we need to consider this and we need to be sensitive to this, okay? So that brings us to the end of, you know, this session on worship and especially corporate things which are pertaining to corporate worship, okay? Back to you, Roshan. All right, thank you, Pastor. Thank you so much. Hey, can we just take a minute and just thank Pastor Jakes for taking his time off the only day where he doesn't have to take Bible calls classes and it is just good, yeah. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you for sharing also. I think there's so much to learn from just your experience and everything. So thank you, everybody for joining in. We'll meet once again for a session next week, okay? Until then, you guys take care and see you all soon next week, okay? Thanks, Pastor Jakes. See you guys next week. I say, bye, friends, care and take care. Bye. Thank you.