 I would like to call this evening at the Parks and Rec Advisory Board's order of June 15, 2020. We please have the roll call. Ms. Erin Angel? Here. Mr. Scott Cuddle? Here. Mr. Jeff Almondy? Here. Mr. Manult Sparemore? Here. Ms. James Lewis? Here. Mr. Nicholas LeVon? Yeah. Mr. Don Olson? Here. And Mr. Tim Walters? Mr. Wilmette, to the agenda. Does anyone have any additions to the agenda? Yes. I would like to propose that we add a discussion about a field trip. Under a new business. Under a new business, yes. Okay. Any discussion on that? Any other additions to the agenda? If not, can I get a motion to approve the agenda as amended? Can you approve the agenda as amended? I'll put some paper. Okay, we'll move on to the minutes. Just this morning. But didn't anyone have a chance to review them fully? And did you have any changes? We didn't have any changes. You came yesterday? Yeah, yesterday. You did? Yeah. Oh. Okay, so we need a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the eight-ninth parts of the budget for the minutes. Okay. Sorry. Oh, it's a favor. Excuse me. We don't have any public invited to be heard. Great. No, please. You can make comments if you want. No, I'm good. Great. Okay. We'll move on to the whole business. I just wanted to make sure that you all heard about the proposal from the city manager presented to Council about the quality of life tax. Has everybody heard about it? No. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So at the meeting, it was towards the middle of May, he presented this info. And what he has talked to Council about it, Council has, at least without voting, shown some interest in trying to go to a quality of life tax that would provide support to the library, recreation, museum, parks, and the performing arts. And the thought is that all of these areas need additional operating funds, as well as some additional space. The museum has a plan that would add square footage to the existing museum. The library is part way through of a feasibility study. That study has identified that there should maybe be two or three branch libraries along with the central library. We all have talked about a new recreation facility. Parks needs operational dollars, as well as some support to move projects up on the list instead of all of us being told three or five years before something is done that maybe, just see if you're listening over there, David, to possibly move those up sooner. And then some form of funding also for the proposed performing arts facility. This is another, basically, it would provide both dollars to build these facilities, add on to the facilities, and operational dollars. And then of course with recreation and museum, the potential to bring in additional revenue into the city. So funding options, and of course not doing anymore is always an option, or even reducing services. That's something that is always a possibility, but certainly not why we want to try to move forward with a tax. Tax would be dedicated for those areas that we just talked about, or another option would be to create a district that would possibly encompass all of those areas. Part of what's going on with the library feasibility study is there also is a group interested in the library not providing services through the city anymore, creating a separate district that would offer library services. What would be the difference between the dedicated tax and the general tax? The general tax could be used anywhere in the city, or if it's dedicated to those areas, it could only be used for those five museum library recreation parks yesterday. Do they say this is a real living tax of property, or more like a sales tax, or another tax of nothing? I believe they've talked about property tax, but this is very early on, and so it really is just in the early discussion stage right now. They didn't talk about how much of a tax there is. No, because we don't know the numbers of what it would cost to do all those things yet. Staff are meeting monthly to start developing those costs. What's that? The previous facility is funded in this way or through like a bond? So like the recreation center and museum was through a bond election. It's a sales tax, yes. I'm not sure the city has no property tax, you know? Yeah, yes, okay. You pay property tax to the city right now. I thought it was through the schedule. But it would expand the levels of service, maintain services in economic downturns, and this election would take place in November of 23. So we have some time to develop what the costs really would be, and if it's realistic to ask for that kind of a tax, meaning how much it is. Does that mean a vote on the tax? Or does that mean a vote on all the things we'd like to do in the tax? Is it all in one package? It'd be all in one is what you find out. You'd vote for the tax that would make all those things happen, including bill to the rest of it, yes. Well, if we get our ducks in a row. Yes. But again, it's November of next year. This is kind of what we have discussed as a red center. Yeah, I agree with that. Yes. So are you still, I know last time we talked there was a funding item for the feasibility study, that was going to be considered as that. Yeah, it hasn't been, it hasn't gone to council yet. I thought it would be done by now, but it hasn't. As soon as that is completed, we will then go to an RFP to hire a consultant. We need to step up there and make that happen for council, instead of having to go to council. No, it's in finance, in finance deals. They're closing out all the books for 2022, so they can't do an appropriation until that's done. They're at the very end of that, I believe. So, possible community involvement, identifying projects and costs, operational needs. We want to make sure that the community is involved along the way, so that they know what we're proposing, have a say in what we're proposing, and hopefully that would encourage them also to vote for it. And then there'll be some later in the year more of a formal direction from council about how we move forward. And then I think they have to put it on the ballot by August of 23 for it to be in the winner, which is the only time the city can do this kind of election. Does anybody have some meetings? Yeah, I think four columns is an example of this type of task. When does the sunset on the current rec center, museum, senior center, vote run out, bond? It already has. It did. It did in 2018. In 2018, voters continued those dollars to be used for the city center, fire stations, and some golf projects. And that's a sales tax. Yes, extension of what people were paying for the decision 99, which is museum, rec center, and Roosevelt property in Russia. So again, very early stages and we'll keep you informed. I'm sure that at some point in time we'll be bringing the different advisory boards together to get everybody's input and their thoughts on moving forward. David, do you have anything you would add? No. Okay. Any other questions? Again, early, early on. Are you nervous that it's just a big conflict? Yeah. Everything? Me, especially the performing arts center. Yeah. The vote on itself. Right. And it's my understanding that the performing arts, there is another study going a little bit deeper than the first study that really identified that private public partnership. I think it was 158 million or something at the first one. But again, we're so early on, I don't know what the number is. But the challenge is whoever goes first may get funded. Or people might say, well, I'm not going to vote for the library because I want a rec center. So coming all together, we feel like it offers something for everybody. I guess my major reaction feels like competitive by its time. A little bit. The performing arts center is a giant piece compared to the other ones. I would agree. It's something that hasn't been really sussed out in public. So it's something that could kill everything else. Because it's its own same-of-one viability that looks different. Yep. I would agree. But again, it's fairly... So what is the path for continuing with this process? I mean, for the council, if we want to provide feedback to the council, it's too bad for Tim's not here tonight. Right. We can talk about it again next month when Tim is here. I don't have the answer for that. Staff is meeting and talking about what we need to identify. And my guess is that then it starts going out to boards and to the public to start getting the comment. Are you guys crazy or like the idea? It would be great to do some really robust early polling. Thank you. Thank you. I think I have the next two. In my way, let's sit right here and... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can still use it. Thank you. Just throw that. So the first piece that I was asked to talk about is the implementation. I think of the passing of the ordinances or the change in park hours in the neighborhood parks, the shelter reservations, and the definition of the connecting. I think we went through those all as a group pretty well. But that really went to effect on June 4th. And it was kind of a scramble because we didn't... We had a way for council here as direction to do that. We got that done. And staff that went out and had to... We actually got our little comic signs to take to change out. And I think you remember we had a number of... We changed all the signs to the base of $5,000. We actually went with the fact that we know we have to do branding coming up in the future and we'll be new signs. So in the interim, basically the final text to go over the old language for the park hours and put that up onto the sign. So it was taking a little bit of work that after we got that figured out because we think of all the years that we're in science, I think we have 12 different fonts, 12 different sizes of characters. So we've been trying to match that. I think we're going now with individuals who are working in those parks that are going to have those stickers and take them out and do them up on the signs. So even that went into effect on the 4th, the goal for the DE and the radius particulars to have to be on the ring, people take us for violations, rules of rights, really is a really separate conversation to talk to people about whether we're trying to make our parks a little safer by keeping people to use in the most effective, quite possible, for those lighted areas after those hours after the one hour darkness that it really is going to be some of those other behaviors in the park. So at this point I've had no rangers come back to me today if you haven't had that conversation with anyone yet. So we'll see how that goes. So if you want to take one at a time and ask questions about that, if you have neighborhood parks and you've either seen the stickers go up yet or you haven't or you've seen or heard feedback from your community about how this is really impacting the use of those parks. I haven't noticed it yet. Okay. She's living too. But okay, so Friday night I got Bob told to stay and then to use it at the museum so that it wouldn't be randomized and did sleep very well. And wake up and look over some kids that were like show hope and fence investigating TV's. There's toys that I like. It's too popular and I'm not analyzing. But then I'm like, these are really cool. Hey, let's go to the park and swim on the swings. So that's my input. It's what teenagers want to do. It's at 2 a.m. going to swim on the swings and I'm all for it. Just to kind of reiterate the fact that, you know, even before this change that would have been in schools I think most of our PD and Rangers and stuff that would be up there in the morning, there really is going to be if there's something happening that looks like they're on the swings with alcohol in their hand or a spray can, you know, the susceptibility of talking to people. And then they, something drives by in the morning and sees someone or not and says, oh, we're after something. So it wouldn't be the ability to contact those people and make sure that their pet was really something we hope is happening again to our system. I just hope it doesn't disproportionately affect people or their color or minority status or different age because if they saw me on the swings, I doubt anybody would say the same thing. Right. So we can definitely age the tough thing. I definitely have my rangers keep track of stats of how many contacts they made for a dog at least after hours of alcohol violations. If it was a verbal warning, if it was a written warning, if it was a citation. So we have some of that information. But again, unless it's a citation, I'm going to be asking people there there are three agents out there. So there'll probably be some conversations we have if I start to see certain parts with certain numbers of contacts that are disproportionate to other areas. We can definitely start talking about breaking the chubs. Is this looking like something happy, a certain demographic or not? But at this point, it's really not good. We can definitely do those conversations. Could we have an update at the end of the summer on your position? Yes. Yep. Just like you and I can talk to you. I think that would be great. The next one was the camping piece. And that one really, we had no signs in our neighborhood parts that said no camping. So right now, that's really what we have. We have a sign that says no after hours camping in some of our other parks. As we went through the territory, there's nothing that said that there. So right now, it would just be as if there are now people who have to kind of know the rules and rights. And again, let's see the idea of what we're seeing out there that would have a negative impact on the system. So we, again, would be having these conversations. So if people are out there and we're using the park and those that are setting up to kind of move in, the Rangers have been trained as part of the training. The first thing you're doing is asking, see if people need services, whether they can get that help. And then they give them that time to even, even if it's over two hours, they're going to give them that one. So you have to point for hours to either move on or try to take some of those services. So again, I'm not seeing that in the neighborhood parks at this time. So the questions did come up again about if it was being used for youth sports and stuff and people out there in the shade tense up. And I think Jeff just talked about that, that those typically don't have a lease on it for some of those or a rental agreement, but the contact person won't be there. Most of those are done within two hours. So we haven't seen any of those challenges yet. And then the last one is the shelter reservations. And that was really the same, if you're going to have more than 15 people or if you need more than two hours, you need to have that reservation. The same way, if you wanted to have first priority, I didn't have. You just need to be sure you get that reservation. Jeff, I don't know if you've seen any reservations coming in. The front reservation does our park reservations for the city, the parks staff involved are going to put the reservation sign up saying that this shelter is reserved for this group at this time. So that way, if someone is using it, you have the ability to ask them to leave because you do have the priority. I haven't seen any impact. The little bit later, those are paid. And Jeff, a lot of that graduation weekend is before the regular leave. Is that okay? I think I saw several. Prior to COVID, we had around 1,500 shelter reservations in a year. We're heading back into that direction. And Jeff, do you know on hand, I have looked up the Medi-Council what the reservation prices are? 65. 65. And a council member of the Donald Bering was kind of concerned about that impact. And having her come from California, she was kind of shocked at how low that price really was to be able to take a shelter for the whole day that's going to be two hours of the whole day. I think you can have that change. Just to clarify, you're saying the whole day? 65 days, you're saying two hours? If you need to have reservations more than two hours, if you have any graduation, it's only one hour, but you want to guarantee you have it for that hour. It's the same piece. You need the reservation. And that reservation really does give it to you the whole day. I'm not sure if you can put a time slot in it because I know we do get multiple reservations in one day for one shelter. The site still has a different hour. Yeah, the group shelter, that's a bigger pavilion, so that is an hourly rate for that. I'm looking right now. It's day A and day B overall. Right. And we don't usually do multiple because it's too difficult to clean up and do right between the branches. So what I've probably kind of heard right now is as we're going through the season, kind of looking for the sayings that, you know, in that XE land is how this is impacting the community and also being ready to give an update at the end of the year on how this really was used throughout our education, our enforcement and our ability to help manage the parks today and then the season. Yeah, I think it would be great to just have an overview and hear what works well and if it were any time to listen. Right. Yes. There's no reason. Right. And again, that's one of the reasons that I think you know that as they looked at doing this CY, I think Harold and the group that was leading this neighborhood impact team, look at it. If we did this place, we would be comfortable and change over there and try to address it there. This way it really is hopefully CY we can address it as it happens. We are working with those individuals on some waters to see right here. He's over there. He's here with me. You're next. Oh. Yeah. I'm just curious, I'm not looking and I'm just wondering, I see a bunch of fields on here and it says you can reserve fields for an hour to time. It's done a lot of things. If you try to do it, it says in Korea only reservations cannot be made online. So if people constantly call up and say I want to baseball, I guess it's not called a field. Baseball finished. I'm just seeing on this website it's not just shelters. You can book all sorts of other amenities at the parks. Yeah. You can't do field reservations because we have so many user groups that you have to talk directly with our athletic staff to reserve those. Okay. So they're listed here but they're not actually reservable. Not online. Okay. Is this ever waived? No. I don't have that authority to do that. And there's no scholarship program or anything like that? For... Like no grant program or anything like that. I don't know. Somebody from California sent $65 as a bunch but somebody from my neighborhood including me, I would not have been able to... $65 was on the entire budget for my kid's birthday party. Including his private. So that would... Those people are just trying to get it right. Yeah. Both they leave at 1 hour and 59 minutes. I agree with you. Yeah. The people that have the money for that are going to, you know, the jumping place or whatever. You know? Yeah. I think this is a lot. I think $15 is not right. Yeah. I think the C.H. Tram hit that compromise because part of what that really does is it does include it's done talk about without the reservation on Friday and Saturday and Sunday. It really is staff coming in cleaning those, changing trash, getting restaurants ready in and that C.H. Tram is going to be on the close of coming to this talk. So there is a C.H. Tram trying to to write the balance between making it equitable for the community but also trying to cover some of those costs. Any other questions? But before we move on to the new business, welcome, Trams and Wards. Thank you. I apologize. Somehow, I'm more focused on tomorrow and I guess there's too many. I don't know. New business then? Yeah. I think the new business then is the New Guinness at the NSC Great Forest Health Partnership and I'm sure all of us heard about this partnership. I think your chairs, the one that saw some of the information out there, either online or hard copies of what some of the tours are up to around the button rock. It really has been we're looking at, it's a forest, you know, this forest shed that really, fire shed that doesn't have really clear jurisdictional lines. Fires don't respect those living wildlife the water does. So we've been working since 2019 is one constantly directed to see how we do better job working cross boundary and cross our fourth boundary to try to help preserve our watershed. One of those pieces is sometimes people don't get as something that a lot of different communities are working on. Denver is calling a forest to faucet. We'll be on how they manage their watersheds through that connection of if we have a devastating wildfire up in our watershed, one button rock, well that impact could be in our drinking water. Button rock is a significantly challenging place for forestry because of the topography up there and how long we've done some good forest work up there. To do this we were able to work with the same brain left hand water conservancy district and some of those individuals here were using the water bottle and then work with them to really build on what was already in place as far as it was building Colorado FireShed Collaborative which is more a regional piece. There's a Boulder County FireShed and then out of that we built some of these documents. I think this is more for next time. The piece is at the range of a button rock on top of doing all the rangering, all the managing of the water. He's been working on all these grants and working on trying to make sure we stay involved and engaged. So we've got more detail on some of these pieces. Price can come back in and it's on. That button rock FireShed is left hand water shed center Boulder County U.S. Forest Service USDA is a left hand water concerned city district left hand water Lawnmont Boulder Valley Soil Conservation Districts Lawnmont and the Colorado State Forest Service. So in that partnership it really was an accomplished thing. So if you can look at the fact and say we can do a grocery project that's going to include the Forest Service Boulder County and Lawnmont and it's going to be a 400 acre project and we don't care about what boundary lines are we care about protecting the forest and the water health. That's the reason we want you to place state advantage and those who work with these different agencies but in the meantime we actually put in for a grant to do it which is 440 acres of forestry up on Lawnmont and that was a winning grant so I just got that last week so we will have a project that we'll be doing over 400 acres of Lawnmont to try to mitigate some of the high impact fires that catastrophic fires. One of the grants that we received from the line that's going to give other groups I'll not talk about that but a lot of alliance or some sort that allows us to get in the water county we also have a marathon from from that group of young people too. So a lot of really good things coming out of this collaboration from Boulder County Commissioner to City Council to the Forest Service along the front range that Button Rock area really has risen to the top as an area that we really need to do more for our Forest Health or Watershed, our visitor experience and for a wildlife worker. And I think the last thing was that there were a couple of ways you can get online and register for some events that I've talked about, people doing this work. And we wanted Button Rock, unfortunately, was June 7th. The next one coming up is in Raymond and that's going to be July 19th. Old stage, Lee Hill, left hand canyon on August 9th and then final spring is being held on August 18th. And we just include those in the notes in a minute so that as you walk on and kind of look at this a little bit, that's really a nice thing about this collaborative because it really is all those municipalities, communities that are really interested in helping to protect this forest and really gain a lot of voice by doing this. So there's also, so this larger same-grain forest health partnership, they put together a story map that's pretty cool online to make sure that we send out the link. It kind of just talks about the purposes of the whole partnership, what kind of forest route they're doing. And then working with the US Forest Service, they've actually, so this collaborative is looking at work on forest service land as well as associated jurisdictions. And for the Forest Service, all of these different partners are helping them with the, it's called the NEPA Analysis, National Environmental Policy Act. And so they have a proposal for projects throughout their whole partnership area that is open for public comments from June 8th to July 8th. And so I wanted to make sure that you all knew about that in particular if you wanted to promote public comment because it will have relevance to the forest service lands in our watershed. And I appreciate you saying that, because there's so many pieces to this and it really could be something that's been at a price or can't be some doctor to do a little bit on this, Joint Chiefs, really the Chiefs of the Forest Service, USDA, they really came out to say we want to do more but we recognize we've come in at the top level chiefs of these divisions. You come into a small community and say, we're here to help you and we're going to clear this forest, we're going to do so, prescribe burns and we're going to make the forest look different and be healthier. They get a lot of pushback on that, especially mountain communities. So what they have really done with this piece is trying to do more bottom off. They're really trying to reach out to those James Townsend as wards and lawn moths and lions so that they can build that grassroots piece and say, here's projects that we like to see in our community in collaboration and forest service. Can you help fund that? And that's opposed to a coming of dollars when we do a project in the backyard. So that's a little bit of how this really got set up. I think they learned some lessons up around Goldville. So will there be volunteer opportunities with us? That's a good question. I'm not sure in this if there will be. My thing is every time, I actually think in terms of past Taylor's office, I don't go past it, because every time I go past it, I have a new idea for her for another volunteer project. So I try to give her a little bit of room, but that's one of the things that, as I told you walking her today, I was going to help myself sit down and just chat with her and say, where do you see this program in five years just got some great ideas? I mean, even middle school owners can fill the slot fives. Yeah, exactly. So somebody else has to have two slots fives or even collecting for a sale of a firewood. Yeah, and that's to say a great piece too, one of the collaborations we have with going to council all these four is that for years, we've been, you know, long mountain forest service, long mountain bold economy, I'll sit there and we'll have some of these challenges. You know, you can go into a bigger spot, you can do the forest work, we can build a slash pile, but again, the slash pile is really just rearranging fuels unless you get a chance to burn those in some of those areas it gets very challenged to how do you mitigate if that fire goes out of control. So the best thing to do is get that wood out of there and that really means going across another landowner's property. So we will be collaborating for the county to use some of their access roads to take it out on a tall ranch and they will use that part as their firewood sale project comes to you. So some of those, the volunteers are working probably, this is really a lot of really positive things pretty quickly in how we're looking for a neighbor to work on this. I'm hearing that note, one of the things we're really important for all counties, they do need to have that area of man so that people come up to buy firewood or they have it for how we can access the new place for them for some additional help is how we demand that firewood get out of their houses. There it is. Yeah, look at it. Look at color, they're not. Yeah. Look at your group, they fund a lot of stuff for the firewood sale. Yeah. Other questions? Any questions? All right, thank you. Great. Thank you so much. Do you want to take those? You can't just pass them to them. Maybe you can. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. I know my daughter. That's really interesting. I'm really excited to be walking home. That's good. I'll take it for a while, though. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any items from the package? Is there any questions? I have a question and I think David is going to be directed to you because Kathy isn't here and you're welcome to say it. I'll ask Kathy. Oh, okay. I don't know. The only reason I'm really asking is because I recently visited Carpark on page six. They talked about Carpark playing around with placement and it says warranty work is complete and file acceptance has been issued for the project. I think never visited before, just last weekend when they went. There's a really cool playground feature that looks like it's been taken apart. So I guess I wanted to ask her slash you. Does anyone know? There's like this giant zip line looking cool thing that looks like it's been disassembled. So I guess I'm wondering has it really, is the warranty work done because it doesn't look done? People at the park were talking about how it used to work and then it got taken apart. So we had some bangles and all but I know at one point but it was called the zip line piece. I'm not sure if that is... I'll have to ask Captain. Basically it looks like a roller coaster. The whole thing you hold onto is gone. Yeah. I'm just curious. People at the park said it was there like a month ago and that's not the way it was. So I did hear from the team of the group about we had some bangles and all of that already. The parents were assuming it was just too dangerous because it looks crazy. It looks fun. It looks really fun. I've never seen anything like that before. I'm just curious. Yeah, I've never seen anything like that before. I get to analyze that. I'm not sure the purpose of it is people that I don't know what it is. Why? I think a lot of kids use it. Yeah. It looks like it was used for everyone including an adult. It's a pretty massive looking thing. I just realized we put last month's wreck update in there. So we only used it for the rest of the day. Is that what I'm saying? That you want to show it to us? No. Anything of note? The sunset pool is really busy. The weather's gone from 60 to 90 degrees. Any other questions from the packet? Thanks. Were you going to talk about the field trip? We amended it in the link for both. You can bring that up on your items for the board. Yeah. Let's just. When you've got about that. Field trip. Those are the view that I found on the board. Many of you, only Dan and I, I think a number of the old field trips. But we did do a field trip last year. We had a new impact with us. And we did sort of looking at some of the continuity. We went to Dickens and some of the other areas of the lifetime. So I think it's generally a great opportunity to get out and see some of the things that we talk about regularly. Before I started the board, the last field trip was maybe a button rock. That was cool. I think I should go into the game now. Yeah. Oh, cool. So is there any idea of what people would like to see? I'm thinking of going to a button rock tomorrow if anyone wants to go and go and take a video of that. This is not the retreat. This is the field trip. Now this is just. Steve's not here. But I'm curious about all the various parks that are under construction, are about to be just finished when we've talked about them and picturing. I can't even say all the names, the one by the one on high. Steve and Dave has done that trail out to the new res. You know, we've just discussed these various things. I don't know if it's the moment it's going to be south of the rec center. Maybe there's nothing to see there yet. There's just a lot to it. Did we go there? Oh, I was wrong last year. At this point, it was a field, so you know, Gallo is. That's the one I was thinking of, but I didn't realize the guys went through last year. Never mind. And a movement led us to the one by one on high. I just said it better not to start. Right. I just couldn't figure it out. Well, and then the one that's by the southwest most, just east of 75th. Yeah, whatever that one that Steve talked about there. I mean, I know all of these are just getting going or, you know, maybe that's what we did last year, I missed the trip. I don't think we didn't do. We didn't do a global matter. Bride Creek is as far, I think, to the west as we went last year. So, but we're moving on that and making some decisions as well. All right, it was just an idea. Yeah, it was you, Jaffet. Actually, I think you were joking about it. I think it's interesting that the idea that we visit, like, other recreation centers. I wasn't joking, because I was talking about, like, APEX. You know, it is the one in our body that's combined with so many really cool things. It sounded like that was the direction we were sort of maybe expecting to be going. That was joking in a real way. Right, right. Jaff, do we have any idea what they pay tax-wise for APEX or does something we can find out? Yep. You see, pardon? You see, you know. But, I mean, it's publicly funded. It's not a private thing. It's like, go down there and put a tennis and it's, what, a facility? I mean, it's two different things. There's a tennis thing, and then there's the rec center. Well, it's like two miles apart, yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about going around more to that team. Yeah, I mean, it must be big money. I'm just curious what it is, what the, or maybe what the district size is. You know, how many people are we talking to that pay for that or get to use it or? Yeah, that's about the eight-part thing I mentioned. It's going to be, I don't think they have that. I'm always starting to be careful about which thing I put in Google, because I'll end up in a long place. Jaff, if you're going to follow up with our data, just building on Dan's question about the size, because I know that's a record screen. Yeah. Or I have to stick the, the, the footprint. If there's more information you can get, like assess evaluation, I'm assuming that, that they're, they're funding that would give you assess facts, whether, however it's being funded. But I know our data has a number of special districts. I think they have a fire district, a public safety district, very differently than how Long Line has approached these things. But this quality of life tax, if it, it's like, this should look a lot more like Arbada than the Long Line over the next half decade or so. So, you know, building down on Dan's interest would be helpful. Okay. Jaff presented the quality of life up to where you arrive. So we're now coming up to speed with your discussions. Building the golden, there's also the, I don't, I don't know that. Yeah. I mean, it was one year ago, but it was still, it pulled up to me. I was like, how did you time it down? Like, how did you turn it, that I saw? Public or private? It's public. It's a, South Suburban. And it's like, huge facility. They've got, like, It comes from the, it's a spiety. In their, indoor soccer, they've got hockey, they've got tennis, they've got, like, a wrestling, they've got a bar. So we get a helicopter for this. Yeah. Yeah, that would be worth, yeah, that would be a long trip. That'll have to come out of the parks. Yeah. Okay, Dan, you're on it. So I think we do, maybe we're still sort of talking about this lightly, but I do think there is some interest. So it might be good if we could at least get some more background, starting, you know, maybe with our data or if there are others that we think are similar. Do Carbon Valley just build one, or did we shoot it? A new rock center? Yeah. No, they just, Approved. No, failed. Oh, failed. Birthed a new one. Birthed a new one. Birthed a new one. But that'll be part of whatever RFP, I mean, whatever consulting we hire will, I mean, I remember last time, they generate all the, Hope competition slash, you know, Comparative. Comparative. Yeah. Maybe this is Epic or Carbon Valley or Lafayette or, you know, the ones around here, yeah. Any other thoughts on potential field trips? I mean, I heard talking about the parks, that like, you know, maybe visiting the parks that have been recently upgraded or near completion. That's another more traditional field trip, you know. I'd be interested to button off as well, but. We always hear about how great it was and I also just, I don't remember where to start, I want to go and I'm like, I wish I could go on. Well, I think I definitely cut that off on this. Is that the place, city spent most of the money at Badundhav? Most of the money spent on the Badundhav? What money? I mean, the money allocated to the parks, most of the money goes to Badundhav? Oh, no. That is right, that's it. We're alone. Was there a dam expansion up there? Was there a dam expansion? Was there? No, it is there. Well, I don't know. Was there a dam expansion? Yeah, gross has it. So I think the city of Longmont has a decree that at some point there could be an expansion up there. Real did that happening. Those permitting processes are decades long. So I don't know when that happened. I think what, you know, the city participated in the Windy Gap Chimney Hollow Project. I think that was, you know, the route that was chosen to really try to achieve the water needs of the city for, you know, the next kind of growth period for the near term. But there is a right up there, but that reservoir could be expanded as well. But Union Rez is supposed to expand and we have done lots of things out there. That's another possible idea for, unless that's where you guys went last year. Right. No. Cause we were now, you know, we changed the hours, you know, that trail that I can't do. You know, Spring Gulch goes, I mean, maybe there's something there. I don't know. Worth our time, I'm not sure. Well, this is the end of the trail. Yeah. Well, eventually all the way around, right? But that's, is that part of the expansion or previous to the expansion? So there'll be two phases on that part of the expansion where we call the J trail. We kind of go up along, head towards the north and go towards the gym ham area then come down and go around towards the south. On the west side. Yeah. So on the west side of that way then kind of look down at the bottom and go towards the south of that. And then the long-term plan has been approved is the full route around the reservoir. And then over to same rate, right? Pardon me. So there's potential from, so. Spring Gulch. Spring Gulch can get you down into sandstone. There's kind of a final phase of that one. But then as you go from Union Reservoir going straight east along the time road 26, that is now all city on property out until you get to the Adam Dairy, which we're in the process of working on closing that deer right now. That will get you, I'll just say part on that side too. So it'll be a loop up on that side as well. So yes. Interesting. Spring Gulch is still, the expansion isn't happening yet. We own the land or have our. Where's Spring Gulch? Yeah, down to sandstone. So you're in the CIP or proposed project. Yes. So that is it in the next phase. It's actually now in Steve or Kathy's queue on that one. That is actually an engineering group trying to get projects moving over housing capacity. So that next phase is going through Jim Manstead's an engineering group, but that is proposed the next year here. So, okay, thanks. Captured. So for potential ideas, one would be put in a rough, I can make it like a forest management, water management, recreation and house. A second would be visiting parks, but you have either been recently revitalized just like classic does or new parks that are near completion and development. And I don't know, maybe we could combine that with Union Reservoir or I don't know, maybe Union and that whole connectivity would be its own. So maybe that's three and then four would be some kind of visit to our battle or somewhere else to kind of compare. I think this is something that we can't do on our phone. That makes sense. So I can always go to Apex Center on my own, but if we were going to go to Apex Center, which I think it's valuable, I want to see a side of it and talk to people. I wouldn't be able to see. Yeah, does that make sense? I don't need to go to all the parks because I already do. You know what I mean? But I need to go to the parks with the eye sometimes. So I'd like to see something that we can't do on our phone because I feel like as a committee we should be making an effort to get to a park and small for something like this. So any, any preferences? I mean, I can offer all of these to Steve or you guys to take it. I feel like the Apex idea is a little early based on what's the timeline of everything you heard until the second half. I'll start getting some information. I don't think we're anywhere near designed to represent our physical. I mean, do you think for the whole day or the pop day? You should go to get pop day. Yeah, the day could be good. Okay, five to eight. Yeah. That's how it was instead of our meeting, I think. Did I want to do it? I mean, what I thought like last year, and this is my billing when I went, I've gone to, it was valuable that, you know, we can do it in these places. It was, I think it was valuable for like, seeming to go through and say, hey, same-grains properties over here and have to work with them in this neighborhood and this neighborhood once, when you just talk about the mean of gal. Except, I'm just like, it's in there for 10 years. Why don't we have a park here? He's like, well, we've got all these parts moving. This is all these other players that are involved. Then you go to another place, you have that same reception. Like, you have to wait until we acquire something and then there's this whole other thing. You kind of put more of these areas in context. You're saying you have the expert there. Yeah. And then just here, here's the park, right? Busters, yeah, that's what I want to feel. I mean, it sounds like maybe the sort of union reservoir combined with like that sort of larger build-out plan is for building connectivity to the park and the sandstone. We do have, I can talk to Danielle because we do have to go after our final couple options we'll be taking out to the public for the final connection from Sandstone Ranch out to the state park. And that's an area that people don't get to, we probably get out to that area and that this could look at that, so we could do that. I asked about that a month or two and you said, no, I can't go there. You can't go there, but we can get you there. I don't know, that's exactly. Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, something that we can't do on our own where we're like, you know. And then we can maybe come up on the, by the new Adam Derry to kind of talk all that, how it fit into the, kind of that northern loop that we're able to make that happen as well. Well, where did you choose? Very good. Bring the bike. So what's that? I would be interested in that. The union is a very combo. Yeah, east side stone. We've been talking about that a lot over the past few years. I mean, between this room and Dan Wolford's and the open space, that all has come into play a lot. Yeah, and you can see how it's springed out. Like, well, phase two, just got a hand. Yes. You know, see where phase three will go out and underneath the railroad track. I mean, it's gone under 119 for 15 years and it's gone nowhere. You know, you just go under it. Like, I'm gonna back up onto the highway. All right. So there's a harder question. I guess we get to set up our meeting. We need to do it sooner rather than later because the peak light is this evening, right? So, next week. I think we did in September. I think that's August or September, yeah. I think we ended about eight o'clock. So, we're at August eight. Actually, we're going to university, I'm sure. August 12th, because I overrided left early. Oh, yeah. August eight. That's not to be hard on others. It was easy. I don't know. I'm not arguing, I'm just saying. August eight. No argument. August what, eight? Yes, yeah. That's the second Monday in August. Gotcha. And the good thing about being able to do that is that we've got a collective, by the way. Yes. We may not have a long meeting. No, it sounded like we aren't quite sure. Yeah. Okay, well, that's pending conversation with staff. Okay. Let's just say tentatively, obviously. Good. That works, yeah. I'll work with Dan and Dan Allen. Yes, I'm going to stick it up. Okay. Steve, Ed, do you have this? It's a lot easier to look at if you're good. Yeah. Okay. No, you're not. I am from the staff. Any other items? I'm good. I'm good. Ed, it's from the floor. Do you have a question? No. I have a few, believe it or not. You want to go first? I have an answer to your question. You didn't ask me. It was vandalism slash mischews. It was people probably too large, adults, you said everyone was using those. What happens when we get that larger weight on it, slams on that other end and stops quick so the wheels are damaged so we have the new wheels on order. It will be fixed and I don't know how we keep it from happening again. It's just a major element of the whole part so it seems like if we invested in that design we need to be prepared to maintain it. It's the biggest thing there. Exactly. I got so many other questions about that. Can I ask? Yes. My first one is random. These are all Jeff's random questions. I noticed just now when I was investigating Budrock that it claims that you can enter the park at 3 a.m. Is that really true? Why is that so different from all these other hours from all the other parks? Budrock is a unique property. It's purchased water funds. It's really considered, we mentioned all these other parks and Ken Cusin would be the first to tell you that it's not a park, it's a preserve so we really purchased that property to store water on but knowing in that area we have that unique cliffhills ecosystem. I also want to know who goes at 3 a.m. That's exactly it. There's a lot of historical uses up there and we're trying to make sure that we can accommodate that, make sure we meet the needs of the wildlife and the preserve and the water quality up there and that was Ken Cusin's always piece that if people wanted to get out and be fishing on the backside of the reservoir at 6 a.m. when the sun came up or at 5 you'd have to be moving in at 3 o'clock from down below to get up there so that was one of the reasons that we did not have the same hours that we did with the parks and palaces. I wasn't trying to correct that. I was just shocked that people go at 3 a.m. Yeah, it really was. The real thing is we would be working long term on some better ways of doing this but you can start up at Johnny Park and you can hike down and through and into Lions actually. You can come down through go up Sleepy Lightning and go into Hall Ranch. There's a lot of people that do camping at Forest Service and are moving through and it's very Tuesday. Johnny Park down to the lake and back just did that. Well, it's actually Colson Gulch was a 7.5 mile long trip to the lake. So my other question actually, David and I already emailed about this but it was interesting enough that I thought I'd bring it up so I have a colleague at work who lives in your Macintosh Lake who said, hey Jeff, I know you're on the board tell me what Macintosh Lake is going to get filled because I want to use it and the water's too low so I called David and asked and he gave me the information I had never even thought about which I thought maybe was the board would be interested in and I looked online and found out that the short version was I had no idea that there was this prioritization process of what gets filled when it's based on when it joined the system and I thought it was super cool and I did nothing about it. I'm just saying, hey guys this is cool if you don't know about it because I just have this long email that has like listing of 1910 on Macintosh Lake and the week before we apparently took on unions and unions before Macintosh. Is that online? Sorry to interrupt. I'm not sure that there's that much detail in line but you know, Kent Houston and West, they both do that stuff, we want a presentation and really what that is is prior appropriations where are you from Jeff originally? I'm from Dallas and I'm from Michigan so in Michigan we have, it's called Spring Hill Farms and we try to get water off our farm all the time in Colorado it's how you get water on it and every drop of water is really owned by somebody and they have to write to that first in time, first in right and yes, if you have a priority you can have water from the way past your reservoir and your farm and someone downstream has an older right on that water and you just have to watch that water go by and by the time you get the priority it may have all dried up and there's no water coming down so you could have watched lots of water go by not had an opportunity to take that Macintosh is pretty low on that however just today we actually had our meeting because of this really warm water unfortunately this knows nothing out really fast, I mean those no packs up in the mountains are our biggest reservoirs and people sometimes don't realize that those are our biggest reservoirs and when they melt out fast we get a lot of water coming down Highland Ditch up in Lyons is the one that can sweep the whole creek you can actually have water from another creek and Highland Ditch can take it out we actually didn't think we were going to fill Button Rock we didn't think we were going to fill the union and we definitely didn't get anything into Macintosh this last weekend we filled Button Rock, Button Rock is spilling and we are starting to fill the union so we may get some water into Macintosh but it's a really complex system we have some amazing water resources people that keep track of all that we work with the state every day we talk about Price and the Forest Beast he's on the phone every day he's an engineer saying who's calling for water how much we're letting out how much we keep in and where is it going it's kind of very interesting so if there's something that the group would like to hear a little more to see on half work I don't think we can do a half hour presentation but on half hour presentation we can probably do something it really does impact our parks and how we do our raw one thing to see if we're committed to is using raw water to irrigate our parks so when we build new parks we can pump out that pond store that water and use it for irrigating our parks I think the fact that some random person asked me there may be more people in the public who wish they understood it also so maybe it would be worth some level of communication about that kind of stuff people can understand it for what it's worth I interviewed Ken, Houston, and the general manager of the northern water is it's available if you want to not online it's on YouTube under the back story but we set it up when the emergency declaration occurred on the lower power base assuming that there's a fair amount of public interest what does that mean for us in that interest test we're going to particularize how do we find it we'll send an email and we'll send it to the link I don't like to say it to you so maybe we can just have it out of its mind and we can pop it or else I'll send it to the chair okay I just think it's interesting the color of water loss is unbelievably interesting and crazy complicated it needs to be revised the thing that Ken gave me was really cool because it showed the percentage of fill of everything and it showed the hierarchy of everything what really helps is going into the museum and doing the thing about they should revise it for water loss you can't take that water you know I know I said I want to leave early but I have one other thing to do and I keep going and other people know I'm waiting so so just a question for David like we talked forever ago about the DBA and the Rangers having authority or not having authority in the DBA I don't know where that went the question just came up today from by school people on the dismount zones and long one downtime development since you're going to be here easily so their authority isn't in public lands those public lands two years ago we included the breezeways and some of those little parks by the church included in public lands so the Rangers are doing control on a bike and they're moving from Collier Park and going to Roosevelt and they come through the breezeways a lot of people that we meet and have conversations whether they're camping along the creek or bad behaviors in the restrooms or camping in the breezeways it allows us to have some sort of continuity and how we'll contact with people who are talking to so it was a piece we worked with the DDA on how we could make that more a part of what the Rangers were doing but it really does end there we haven't figured out a way to do the sidewalks so, Kimberly I think is working on giving an ambassador out there I think it's one of the things that if a Ranger is down in that area and someone's riding their bike on the street and you know, they have a warning or a conversation or an ask and being in uniform could help with that it's just, I don't know the probability of that happening but we will not be out there controlling that area because it really is not a part of the area they have jurisdiction over I just want to ask at Black Creek there were four containers earlier for the cash now there are only two since last two weeks so what were feeling I got some thanks to YouTube David and Bob about the chance and pickleball it sounds like you guys had meetings it was still deaf and you know they feel positive like oh we're going to do business but we haven't brought the two gurus together they have met with some pickleball folks they met with pickleball folks and we met with LTA I got the impression that LTA and pickleball did talk separately from the YouTube that's the impression that's the impression I got anyway and I also got positive feedback from several people about the new backward car park in fact Patsy the woman who came talked to us a year and a half ago she bought donuts and drinks for the guys who were installing it but she was so appreciative but I got lots of complaints because of the heat about no shade at Quail we had two years ago I want to know those sale things I wonder if that could happen again or if there's budget for that you know what I mean just those candidacy I think the water goes through but the sun gets dappled underneath because the leagues there's 20 people plus from teams there between the two courts and the backside you guys had stuff strung or maybe LTA did I guess exactly well did you do that I keep asking about a shelter I don't know maybe this is something we can do I don't know I mean those nice wind screens are they all back up I guess in the winter when we don't have them that's when we don't need we need them all at the same time that doesn't work we need the wind screens in the summer and we need overhead so that's mine I'm looking at the website that I wanted to learn more about button rock again and I notice it doesn't completely make sense to me so I just want to clarify there are things on here that and departs open space and trail section of the Waumont Colorado dog website it lists button rock and then right below it says like disc golf and then it says dog parks and then it says pickle ball courts but it never mentions tennis courts and it never mentions basketball courts it never mentions like and I guess I'm just wondering is there a different place where someone would learn about the resources that someone in the city of Waumont where are you at Waumont Colorado website directory of parks and trails and that's why it's strange that pickle ball is in there for the first place really so you can I think one thing's in it this is a piece where we have to interface with other places you're not making the website I would say we work with that but I think there's a spot on there once it was on the day you should be able to filter those that way what it allows you to do you can go to a park that has pickle ball courts you can go to a park that has tennis courts and that's where it should be able to maybe that's another part of the website but this is just seems weird because I was expecting things like button rock and then I found pickle ball and I think the tennis isn't there it just seems odd that we'd be listening to some of our resources but not all of them there are, each park is listed separately with the amenities that it has this must be a different section because this is more focused on parks, open spaces and trails that's why it's strange to pickle ball there it is and one of the things I think is you look at websites one is keeping them up to date on the new stuff getting rid of stuff as it becomes irrelevant so again it's fine I was just surprised to see all that that was weird but aspects of the city website that are not very useful we had an RFP for a marketing manager a website manager quite some time we are I understand we offered a job and the person ended up turning it down oh really? I can get a good message so I heard people ask me about dark sky areas and dark sky areas and if there is a chance of having dark sky like city blockouts during migration periods birds does anybody know there is a dark place in Longmont but not first of all yeah yeah like sandstone things like that I was talking in the museum about doing an astronomy program there is but it needs to be in the city and sandstone has unfortunately the sugar mills you can see the sugar mill 5 miles the lights go on to 5 miles away and things definitely aren't going to go on there that union the open space program is done basically from Conning Road to all those water properties for expansion to the open space and we need high school that's going to be up a lot but again the areas we can't protect out there those are going to become subdivisions to the north of those properties too so union right now would be a dark dark first step so somebody overhead lights at union yeah the reason I have to definitely jump and say this is a spot I'm not sure the definition of dark sky is because again the place is probably the most ugly amount of lights but around that area you can kind of go along those city owned properties out in low cap and low volume would it be like home ponds or back back up back the west end the west end almost a pillow but you can't get the pillow yeah there's a neighborhood right by it and then I'm I'll check it out there's there's some open space areas that are but that's same frame is it too close to that? yeah it's just it's just a group you're working with the piece that's going to remind you again hours if it's one hour after sunset or it's 11 o'clock that we just need to make sure that if it's a group be permitted to be out there and these people just also want to know because they want to people just want to know there's a dark sky place that they can just go see like the Perseids or whatever and right now it doesn't seem to be and then people talk about the migration paths that are affected by light and I don't know the idea that maybe the city could shut out the lights shut out the lights twice a year it'd be kind of cool actually but I doubt it's going to happen so good ideas check them out I know that there's a museum we're talking about a strong work that would be cool to do in the stronghold program and then frog trapping that's the other thing I have a question Mark how's the frog trapping going the bullfrog trapping I don't know if I have a update on that recently but I think it's going fairly well and that's been a significant piece of what Scott and his group have been trying to do to protect our native frogs so I personally wish it wasn't happening by the museum because I take kids out to catch frogs there and that's their nature experience and marry the frogs but there are there's a vernal pond right by there of native frogs that's pretty nearby development and I brought it up to individuals like Marsha Martin we're going to have to talk about the museum yeah it's north and west of the museum there's a vernal pond and there should be right now as we speak there should be frogs I haven't looked this year but it's every year there is a property to go well it's going to be a hotel I think even though it's going to be a road that goes through all that it's going to be a hotel or a road but does that require mitigation? I mean that's why I made my note here if there is a wetland there so who do I send the pictures of those frogs to next week with kids and they see that I send them to Colorado Parks and Wildlife it's native frogs they're not whole frogs so send them to me and I'll get them to so Scott Sievers is my wildlife biologist to be the best person to do that to who's Scott Sievers Dan Wolford so Scott Sievers, Jim Crick, Dan Wolford myself if you go two weeks later you don't have to know there's a pond there I'm just wondering since Mr. Waters wasn't here when we had the point where we wished he was here should we circle back and tell other people from this group we're thinking about the combining of the rec center do you want to say that? I'm delighted to hear that we wished he was here and now he's here I was going to go back to that when we were done with the items from before but yeah any other items from before? Great, well I think we would also love to hear so Jeff gave us the overview of what was being proposed and what was in front or potentially to be evaluated from the quality of life tax and folks on the board had some questions particularly about the inclusion of performing arts which might be sort of a different animal than the other things and could potentially be a bit challenging for the overall approach and we all acknowledged that that was property versus sales so it was just a general overview so I would welcome anything else you might want to add from your perspective from the council I have a whole lot more perspective to offer if you've heard it from Jeff or David I'm certainly the authoritative word on this we had two feasibility studies that occurred in the last 36 months right one on the Performing Arts Center and one on the Library both in terms of the Library and in advance of the Performing Arts or members of our Performing Arts community are anxious to move beyond the feasibility study to something right that would result in 25th century Library the Museum has been working with the consultant they've done an assessment of where we should go about what expansion of the Museum it's no surprise that there's growing enthusiasm in our recreation community to revisit what drove us to a ballot question that failed back in 2018 the need hasn't any less today than it was then the challenge is what's the appetite for the amenities that would come out of this among our voters how elastic is the tax base and if you go at this with individual questions four or five questions on ballot what are the chances that any one would pass and the concern is that you pit groups against one another and that you get winners and losers and people are going to advocate the expense of other ideas or other opportunities that's the worst fear the best hope would be of course that if you put four or five ballot questions on you can sell to the community and they all pass but we couldn't do that with one one question it was badly if you go back and you didn't act it's a long list of mistakes that we made we waited too long in the school district the school district wasn't really I don't think behind it there was a lot we framed it all wrong so there's no surprise we want to get back at it I wish we'd done that this is a judgment politics like how do you agree that we're going to do this in a long month how deep our taxpayers want to go and if you were to be successful the complications then with a special district that has all these different interests in it and how do you then set priorities within the special district to make that use of the resources and there are huge issues that the city will have to deal with how we fund parks right now the library, the museum and we don't do much with the arts I would assume that those resources would still be available for recreation, for the museum for the library, etc so there's a fairly complex set of IGAs in the government agreements I would guess I'm going to be more creative but at the end of the day the concern is if you go into some individual questions you get into losing four or five questions or four of five questions or whoever Marshall's the best clean paint had to be expensive that's the view couldn't it also be at this $10,000 and all $5,000? I think the biggest thing would be nothing now if you had your entire recreation community and your arts community and your library all going in the same direction there chances are you could that's the best the other question that asked a lot of people was the discussion about what kind of impact it would be whether it would be property versus social there are some legal questions I don't know if we have the answers to just yet what are the options for mixing and have the law and tax or property tax with the sales tax and the same question I don't know if we can do that and I don't know I've heard that question raised I haven't heard our city attorney give a definitive response to that so I don't know if you can mix that would be kind of cool actually but it would tax people to own property and that would be nice for people that are just visiting well that's the rub on the sales tax it's going to impact people who can at least afford it for some of the things you tax can you give people who are traveling too long a chance to share the burden of servicing debt so but that again is a judgment I do think what we tax is a sales tax like food this is going to call that question if we do something like this I don't know if we could we could add one more burden on those who are at least able to afford to live in lawnmower without making an accommodation or something like that and I think the sales tax would be nice to start a personal life would be a bit of that would you use tax? have you already agreed? well yeah I'm not going to speak well I understand everything there's the idea of luxury tax along with sales tax property tax or something that you would amp up the tax on luxury items what's the luxury item on? automobiles and things like that but those are legal questions that I don't have an interesting idea I'm not a marketing expert but I would probably not call it quality life tax for too long because I feel like that's I mean arts and activities district you know something I think especially with inflation and gas quality life tax seems unnecessary and challenging here will be a challenge among the many challenges there's going to be a bunch of them there's something called that is prohibited from municipality or elected body wanting to put a tax question on a ballot you can't roll multiple initiatives into the same question so you got to frame the question in large enough to accommodate what it is you want to accomplish so a couple of years ago when we passed the the etiquette and sales tax for updating the Civic Plaza, Civic Center the museum and fire stations and justice and the sprinkling system or golf courses we had to do that as three separate questions and personally I was just certain I wanted all those to pass so that the least chance to pass them is going to be the preparation question fortunately it passed and I was lobbying to roll these all up into one question and was told we can't because there's this law against law-growing and that's what that would be and we couldn't frame or we didn't work hard enough to frame that question in ways that you could put all those questions into one all those initiatives into one ballot question so it was new when I heard Harold talk about quality life tax it's the first time I've heard him refer to this way we've been in this conversation kind of on the fly about what a a special district might include cultural district or a civic district and then I heard quality life district and I've got my own concerns about about that label but I do think some marketing some market research has to be done to make this kind of you could walk into the same bus that you did with that's what I'm worried about quality of life tax I mean if I really break it down quality of life is what it's about and that actually got me on board with giving us a good quality of life quality of life fund rather than quality of life tax but I mean there are marketing professionals that fund fund but I mean I I think it's an interesting idea that I think we learned from the that language really matters but I would hate to see this fail Language and messaging and who are your opinion leaders in town that you'd like to have on board and I mean there's so much work that needs to be done it wasn't done so I wish I had more information thanks anything are you leaving your time anything else on the agenda okay okay I'll take that notion to adjourn second next page thank you