 Valerie Amos you've had a fantastic career as a cabinet minister in the UK the first person of African Caribbean descent to occupy that role You've been high commissioner to Australia, and of course you spent what six years in the UN system as leading the humanitarian Dimension of the UN's responsibilities So let's begin with the the multilateral stuff and in particular you were quite critical of the big beasts in the UN jungle for Lack of transparency accountability in their participation and decision-making Can you say a little bit more about the hopes you had when you went into that UN role and what you found and what you disappointed by? Well, one of the things that I think really struck me when I was at the UN looking after humanitarian affairs is that of course across the world everybody Understands that humanitarian affairs is about helping people who are most vulnerable those people affected by conflict by natural Disasters and that you try as much as possible to take the politics out of that My experience at the United Nations was that it was all about politics if you look at something like Syria Yemen Iraq many of the conflicts we've seen across the world South Sudan elsewhere That where you could not get the permanent members of the Security Council to agree on the action that needed to be taken politically It had a damaging and very often negative impact on what we were able to do on the humanitarian side So it took almost two years two years with Australia New Zealand and Jordan playing a key role as members elected members of the Security Council Then before we were able to get our first resolution on the humanitarian situation in Syria You know looking back on it. It's an absolute scandal. This was about helping people Most in need so that's why I'm so critical of the role That they can play the negative role that they can play because of the politics of a situation But when they work together it works extremely well How much worse can the politics of the situation now get with the new US administration which is frankly? visibly walking away from any kind of even notional commitment to Global public goods pursued through Multilateral institutions, I mean, I think one of the things that everybody's learned from The time that President Trump arrived in the White House to now and it's still early days Is that you have to read the Twitter feed? You have to read what said but the actions that are taken can also be different So I think it's too soon to tell clearly there's a working out of what the role Is going to be in terms of foreign affairs. It may be that there never is a great deal more clarity it may just be that as One person said today in a very interesting debate on global security that it's ala cart In terms of of the role in terms of foreign policies, so The actions the actual actions that the US takes in different situations is I think the thing that's going to count Because one of the things that matters most in terms of actions is financial support for the UN system Which is hugely dependent on the US formal contributions and indeed voluntary contributions on top of that How well are you going to be able to survive at all in that humanitarian space in particular if the US really Abdicates any sense of responsibility there a lot really depends on Congress and the extent to which Congress fights the corner for the United Nations and particularly for response to humanitarian action for the development side of the UN's work, I've been very concerned about what has been happening to UN FPA, which is the UN's population organization for example and The proposed pullout there. We've seen over the last few years even before The Trump administration what happened to UNESCO? So this is not new and the role that Congress plays in pegging back Proposals that come from the White House will be critical How much confidence can you have about the better angels of our nature prevailing in the US Congress with the Republican majorities being as they are if you work in the United Nations One of the things that you learn very early on is that you have to find the people In Congress who support what you do may be critical of aspects of it But have a degree of influence on the hill that they're going to be able to use on Both sides of the house are a Republican and Democrat and I'm absolutely sure that my former colleagues at the UN are doing that as we speak Of course one of the reasons the US is in the position that it now is with its leadership as a result of the kind of populist Forces that have also been at work in Europe and particularly of course in Britain with the Brexit referendum last year What is your take on the implications of this for Britain's future the former cabinet minister? You must be with a strong multilateral and strong internationalist disposition You must be in a condition of almost despair about where the UK is at the moment. Are you worried deeply about The referendum decision and the fact that we're going to pull out of the European Union I think the long-term Consequences for Britain for Britain's future both politically economically and socially I don't think a good for for Britain But the thing that I worry about the most is that I think that that referendum vote Was not so much about Europe but was much more about people feeling excluded from our Political process about people feeling that the concerns that they had were not being listened to That people talked about the benefits of globalization when they weren't seeing them on the ground and that the people who Actually they felt were as it were listening to them had a degree of empathy at the local situation that they found themselves in poor housing Real challenges in terms of the health sector and what was happening to their hospitals To their local clinics. What was happening to housing that the people who were listening to those concerns Were people from the right from parties like UKIP for example I think it's a real indictment of our mainstream political parties including My own the Labour Party that people are feeling like this have the left recaptured some of that constituency now on the evidence of the recent election with Jeremy Corbyn's Move back from the dead to position the Labour Party in much stronger Outcome than most people had expected or is that just a form of sort of left-wing populism rather than signaling a return to The kind of politics with which you and I are familiar. I think there are a couple of things in there that are important one is that There was a lot which was anti the austerity measures in what Jeremy Corbyn Has been consistently saying and what was in the Labour Party manifesto and I think that really spoke To people and what they wanted to see but I also think that the recent Election was what's being called the revenge of the Remainers and there was a very clear correlation between The areas where you saw a huge boost in the Labour majority and people who in the referendum Voted to stay in the European Union what that means for us in the longer term I think we'll be tested as we move forward Do you see any prospect at all of a second referendum and a retreat from the Brexit decision at the moment? I don't I think that what we would have to persuade those people who voted to leave is that this is not in Their long-term interests or in the long-term interests of Britain. I fear that we are very far from that right now Very it's been terrific having you back in Australia back in Canberra and back at the ANU What's been your take on this Crawford leadership conference? We've tried to use as a vehicle for getting more informed debate perhaps Developing a degree of consensus among those who influence policy makers on the move forward. What's what's been your experience at this forum? Well, it's been great to be here and have the opportunity to talk to friends Who I was with when I was here in Australia before but also to meet new people and also to be In a place where you're bringing together policymakers politicians and people from the business community what I was really struck by however is that Although we're talking global the focus very much was on the big powers was on China Was on the United States? To a certain extent the European Union and what was happening here in this region? hardly a mention of the African continent of South America of the Middle East and I think that if the Forum is really going to look at the global challenges We talked security this morning then it needs to tap in to those areas a bit more as well But a great opportunity to talk about Current challenges well absolutely fair comment and we'll take that into account for next year's agenda And I hope that one of these days before too long We'll have you back to participate as brilliantly and constructively and as helpful as you did at this conference Thanks so much. Thank you, and always good to see you Gary