 In today's podcast, I'm joined by Chris McIntosh, author at Capitalist Exploits. Chris has founded and built several multi-million-dollar businesses in the investment arena, including overseeing the deployment of over $30 million into venture capital opportunities and advising family offices internationally. Chris, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Hey. It's great to be here, man. Yeah. Right before this, you and I were talking about the second order, third order effects of what the government policies are doing to the economy. And you were mentioning you were working back in 9-11, and they shut down about three to four days, the trading floor and everything. But the interesting thing that you told me that I'd love for you to share with the audience, you said that for just those three days, it took 18 months to come back to normal and it affected how much? What was it? Like you said, 5% of the GDP? No, no. So, on 9-11, we just used hospitality, as that was one of the most severely impacted. It was airlines were impacted as well. But in terms of usage, so getting back to the pre-9-11 demand, hospitality took about 18 months for people to be like, yeah, okay, I'll fly into New York and I'll stay at the Hilton or whatever. That was in the US. In Europe, it took a shorter period of time, but that was kind of because there didn't seem to be the same risk parameters, it was like, nah, they'll hit the Americans, we'll be alright every year in Europe. It took a little bit shorter. But by and large, you had this short, sharp smack to the economy, it took 18 months for the hospitality index or hospitality sector to get back to those pre-9-11 capacity levels. And what we're doing now is clearly not just a short, sharp, you know, three-day window because they shut down airlines for about three days. So what we've got here is obviously of in order of magnitude greater. And what we, you and I were talking about before we started recording this for viewers was if we took the, if we, if we all shut down for two weeks, that would roughly translate to about a 4% hit to global GDP, which is enormous. And that's over a two-week timeframe. We're not doing that. We're all locking down for longer than two weeks and we're doing it sporadically. So there's this sort of, you know, it's, if you think about that short, sharp hit, it's something that people can, can feel like there's an end to it, right? They go, oh, okay, it's over now. We get back. Whereas in this instance, it's, there's this sort of asynchronous reaction where you're going to have lockdowns in some places and then it'll keep, it literally keeps moving around the world. And so, you know, you go back to just a couple of months ago and we were all sitting out going, okay, China. This is a big deal. Second largest economy in the world. They literally, it's the producer of many manufactured goods just closed its doors. Whoa, this is a big deal. And, and then we were looking at supply chains and that kind of stuff. But then it rolled, right? And then it was into Italy and France and so on and so forth. So it's rolling around. And what it means, of course, is you got this, this grinding, right? And, you know, you were mentioning that the hit to the global economy is going to be profound. Of course, there's a couple of things from our perspective. You know, it's like I say to my kids, how do you, you know, you have to, you have to trade or you've got to, you've got to deal with the things that you have capability to deal with. There's things that are out of your control and you're just going to have to leave them alone and you deal with what you have under your control. We're entering a period of quantitative easing that we haven't seen ever. We thought that 2008 was the hyperinflation period where they're just going to print. But obviously that's not the case. And now most people are talking about we're possibly entering an MMT period. Do you think this to be true? Like do you think we're actually entering MMT where we don't even have to put up any collateral anymore? Like do we make money? 100%. I just wrote a report on it, which went out early this week. So look, there's been two ways out of the situation that we're in. Like you come back and you say, okay, how is, what did 2008 look like? How did they deal with that issue? It was monetary policy. But there was some leeway in monetary policy so that had an actual effect. Because essentially what you were doing was you just screen around with interest rates and injecting credit into the system. Also, the way that they did that was they channeled it through the banking system with the intention that it would be a trickle down into the rest of the economy, i.e. the banks, take the capital and lend it to businesses, businesses, create more business, employ people. And so it kind of feeds through into Main Street. That kind of happened, but mostly didn't. And there's a number of reasons behind that. One is that the banks will always channel to where they can make the most profits, which is where they've got more leverage. So it went, you know, there's no surprise that it went into stock spawns in real estate. And so that's where we saw inflation, you know? So when people say, oh, it didn't have an inflationary effect or we've had a deflationary environment, I tend to think it's the wrong way to look at things. It's more around what has inflated and why and what has caused that inflation or deflation, right? Because this has all been, we've come into this and we went into the GFC on the back of an increasingly globalized world, right? And globalization was hugely deflationary because we were bringing back in billions of people into the global marketplace that would work for 10 bucks a day. That's always going to be inflationary, at least in terms of the goods and services that were produced by those people. And so there was a deflation in many of those goods and all of those goods and services at the same time there was an inflation in financial assets, right? What they're doing this time, because monetary policy has kind of reached the end of its life cycle, so to speak. And we can see that in the feed speak and the ECB, they've realized that that's kind of reached the end. And so that's why we've been, and before we went into the corona crisis, we were expecting fiscal policy. And it had already been, you know, the ECB had been talking about it. It was in our minds, it was coming regardless because it was the next inevitable step that needed to be taken. Or wouldn't say needed to be taken, that would be taken by governments. So we kind of felt that was going to happen anyway. This thing has just accelerated it. And so you've got to understand how fiscal policy differs from monetary policy. And also given this impact now, because this impact is not primarily being financial, it's hit Main Street, right? This isn't being a leverage issue or anything like that. I mean, sure there's leverage in the system. Yeah, I know there are a whole lot of corporate buybacks and all that kind of fun stuff. But it wasn't equivalent to the GFC or anything in that nature. So and the person that's been hit most in this instance is the man on the street and it's the small and medium businesses. And so that's where they're going to inject the capital to. So they're kind of turning that fire hose away from the financial sector and the banking sector and they're channeling it here into the man on the street and into fiscal spending. Because one of the things, they're going to funnel it towards the man on the street. But that's not going to, that in itself I don't think will be necessarily inflationary. And part of the reason that all kind of failed is that when you, if you've lost your job, firstly, if you've lost your job and the Fed drops rates, 50 basis points, you don't give a fuck. You don't give a fuck at all. What does that mean to you? It doesn't, you're not going to be like, oh honey, let's take the kids out for a dinner. Like, so and you hoard because you don't know when the next paycheck's coming, right? So there's that fear. But what you will spend money on are your necessities. Okay, so food stuffs and all of the components that go into producing a lot of that. And incidentally, quite a lot of that is all the deep value stuff that we've been investing in which has gone through supply constraint set up and that's being exacerbated now as we speak. So that's kind of the direct capital injections into main streets, so to speak. And what they'll do also is they'll look at that and go, okay, it's not having the effect that we needed to have. And they'll be like, if you bastards don't spend the money, we will. And they'll go out and build bridges and highways and airports and stuff. Okay, so that will be, it does two things. It creates demand for resources. And secondly, it actually, it has the perverse effect of crowding out the private sector. Because in a utopian capitalist world, you would just let the chips fall and you would have the resurgence would be as a consequence of demand and supply. In a capitalist environment whereby one person wants something and another person can make it. And so in this instance, you're creating something that isn't the capital savings there to actually bring it to fruition. There's only debt. So they're just going to increase their debt. The government's going to do this because they want to stimulate demand. And I also want to bring more people into the workforce. But it's really, it's a mirage because they're doing it on the back of increased debt. And the problem that you have now is we've gone into this whole environment with the largest debt levels the world's ever seen. We've got like 250 trillion in global debt. And every time the markets try to correct itself, they've just increased the debt load. And you can see it only, you just pull up a bond chart. It doesn't matter if it's 10-year, 30-year, it doesn't matter if it's bonds, guilds, treasuries, it's the same chart. So now they're just going to take that to extreme measures. So you've got this huge debt load. How do you solve that? And that's where I think MMT comes in. Because you could, there's two ways out of it. You can default on debt, right? Or you can just cap rates and just inflate it away, right? So we also know that central bankers have studied the Great Depression. Like there was Bernanke's entire thesis, right? And he's not the only one. So they know, and that's like, you know, the general always fights the last war. So the last major war that looked like this was the Great Depression. So there's a high probability in my mind that they've looked at that war. They know that they should use helicopters and gunships and all these sorts of things, right? And so they know how to fight that war. And that's what leads us to MMT. And really MMT just means that your creditors get hosed and your debtors get made whole on a nominal basis. And so I think it has the real potential to be wildly inflationary beyond what anyone could imagine. But that's more or less like medium, medium term. That short term you have like a honeymoon effect, but then that would happen like, yeah. Yeah, it's going to feel good. It's going to feel good. This is similar to like I was doing deep research on Brad Johnson's milkshake theory. Yeah, no, Brent. He's a good way. So, and I think we agree broadly, look, you kind of got to look on a, on a fiat currency basis. I think this is where we're hating globally because across the developed world, they've all got the same problem to deal with. Okay. How they go about fixing that problem, there'll be nuances around it. But essentially, it's one big problem. And there are only really two solutions to it. So it's, it'll be slightly nuanced, but they're like, if you just simplify it down, there's only really two options. So on that basis, you say, okay, fine, you don't really want to be in currency. Right? However, in the, in the medium, in the short to medium term, there is no other exit valve for capital. It has to sit in currency. I know. So when people say to me, oh, the dollar's going to get blown to smart, get smoked and, you know, whatever. I'll often turn around. I go, why are you so bullish on the euro? And they'll be like, no, euro is shit too. And I'm like, okay, well, your dollar index, like half, nearly half of the dollar index is the euro. And so if you, if you bearish the dollar, you're essentially synthetically bullish the euro. And then if you look at the other currencies that make up that basket, it's very difficult to actually make the call that you would want to belong those in a credit contraction. And you find you can have countries that got pretty strong balance sheets and all that sort of stuff. It largely doesn't matter. And you can go back and look at like the LTCM crisis. And you look at the ruble crisis, the dollars, the reserve currency, it is the currency that has been utilized for global trade. Everybody needs dollars. We're not contracting. And that just creates, so if you go back and you think about the 97 crisis, okay, I was too young. I was just cutting my teeth in the investment banking world then, so I didn't trade through it. But I've studied how that transpired. And essentially, it was a collateral issue. You had silly values that got placed on certain assets in these fast moving and fast growing Asian tiger countries. It was typical bubble stuff, got out of whack. And then they found that the collateral wasn't quite there. And then it created a run on the currency and then it spiralled downwards. And then as the demand, so like, let's say you got a developer in Bangkok, right? And you couldn't make your payment on your loan, you'd try and sell some assets, right? But then there was a market for the assets. And so you had to write them down, which put more downward pressure on those kind of collateral, which meant that the guy next door to you, who kind of was all right beforehand, suddenly wasn't because his collateral went down by 20% because you, you know, and then it created a knock on effect. And eventually, the currencies all broke. So we've got a similar situation this time globally, except this time it's actually all about cash flows, not about collateral values. And so when you get that contraction, because GDP is contracting at a fucking horrendous rate, I mean, everybody's sitting at home on the, you know, watching Netflix. So GDP is contracting. And I don't even know what those figures are now, everyone's just like, you know, sucking their thumb trying to figure out what it's going to look like. We just know that it's going to be large, very large. Again, if you go back and you, we ran the numbers, if you did a two week lockdown, that's 4% here to GDP, global GDP. And we're past that. So it's like, well, what is that? I mean, we just, we don't know. But what we do know is that the ability to serve as debt immediately right now is a problem, which is why the Fed's opening swap lines and everything else, but it's not going to, I don't think they're going to solve the problem. It's just too big a problem. So in that environment, you get this massive demand for dollars, and it can quite quickly spiral. Like we went into the short, the South African round, we've been short them for a year and a half. And now it's really paid. Do you think it's going to happen like this, the inverse relationship? So for the short and medium, the US dollar, it's the premium run where everything's hedged in the US. People will sort of get to the United States military Navy, the dollars backed by military might. And short term, you mentioned liquidity is cash problem, dollars, a premium and everything. Class example was, you know, for example, the Australian dollar versus the US dollar in the last week or so, even the Canadian dollar has dropped. And so the United States dollar becomes this vacuum sucking all the liquidity around the world because of the premium. But that's a benefit for people in US short term. But then long term, with all this liquidity sucking, you eventually get massive inflation. Yeah. So look, the dollars are coming. There's a demand for dollars now. At some point, it gets extinguished and it's going to be painful. And I think we'll have corporate defaults in emerging markets. I think it's going to happen. But then let's go, where do we go from there? Let's paint a picture for long term forecast. Like, where do you foresee? Like we just talked about short term, mid term, but what your best hypothesis for like long term? So, you know, on the short term, short to medium term, we're very long dollars. I think it really applies. Again, it has a consequence of liquidity and credit contraction. And the fact that it's the reserve currency in the world, everyone needs dollars in a liquidity crunch. And there's almost no asset that is uncorrelated. Even gold gets smashed because in a liquidity event, correlations all go to one. That's what's king. But when you come out of that car crash, that's when balance sheets matter. That's when solvency matters. And so, like, there's that window now. But, you know, and we're already positioning for the next. And we'll be too early. And that's fine. I don't care. But the next is we're balance sheets matter as we solvency matters. And it's, and then the following step after that is where all of that liquidity comes in. And, and it has to find a home. And, and it's not going to find a home in financial assets, in typical financial assets, because people are going to be scarred from this. You think about a baby boomer that's got like a year or two away from retirement, and they've just lost 30% or 50% in their 401k or whatever the fuck it is in whatever country you happen to be in. There's no ways they're going to dive back into the into the market. Like, you might, because you're young enough. But when you're 65, it's like, no, I'm gonna have to just cut the losses. I'm gonna, yeah, what's what's the safest thing that I can that I can own. And so, the the traditional financial, if you think about the SMP or the NASDAQ or something like that. Look, I think they could go up really just as an on a nominal basis. But on a real basis, it's just that's not where, well, it's not where we want to be. So, and then on a even longer timeframe, I think in that capital is going to rush to the US because it's going to be the most liquid markets, it's going to appear to be the safest with respect to rule of law and all that kind of fun stuff. But ultimately, the biggest pools of capital are going to move towards resources, essentially, amongst other things. And then in that space, when you're looking at governments and balance sheets and solvency, the way that the West is dealing with this today, and the way that the I'll loosely call it the East is dealing with it looks on the surface to be similar, but it's not. And what I mean by that is while you've got enormous amounts of debt being taken on by the Western governments, that's not true in the same to the same extent on a percentage basis at all in many of these other countries. I mean, it's on a very basic level. Like if you if you live in, I'll take a country, Thailand, I used to live in Thailand, a place up there. When when the shit hits the family, and you have a bigger recession, we have something like that take place. People look after the family looks after you. It's a fact. So the social structure in much of those countries is a familial structure. Nobody's looking at the government to provide health care, education, the whole social safety net. They're anti-frigerated. They're not dependent on the government. It's a look at it's like almost like blockchain. It's a decentralized system. And I'm not saying one is better than the other. It doesn't really matter what you think at the end of the day. That's the structure. And in that environment, what it means is that the government doesn't just go into enormous amounts of debt and put themselves at risk, because they're not socially expected to in the same instance or in the same manner. Whereas in the West, it's like they're going off the deep end. They just like throw the kitchen sink at this thing. It doesn't matter. Deficits don't matter. So and then again, that's why MMT I think is going to look so attractive on that front. So at that point, then you literally have had a shift of wealth from the West to the East, where people will be so caught up in the smoke and in all the chaos. And we're going to come out of this in like 10 years time and they'll be like, fucking hell, look at that. Look at what the world looks like. And so that's my sort of long term view. Right now, I'm like, I'm not going, I'm not buying assets in those countries, but I'm very excited to do so at some point. And the assets that you're referring to, are you still talking about like Mazel Hayekirni assets or is any specific domain of assets that you're looking at? Look, for the foreseeable future here, our own deep value stuff, which look, going into this, we, the most asymmetric deep value opportunities were pretty much in resources. And I'm not a resource guy. Like I'm not, you know, you'll have like plenty newsletter publishers or whatever and their whole slip is either gold or it's like in whatever. I'm not that guy. I'll buy baked beans if they make sense to make money here. Go global and we'll buy whatever. So that's just where the market led us to. Right. The extremes in value on a relative basis just with air and part of that is just because it's cyclical. And we come out of a bull market in sort of to turn in 12, 2013 period. And so there was a whole lot of supply and destruction as there always is and across many of these sectors. And so now coming out of it, that's also definitely where I want to be. I want to be invested in those, in those sectors. Like you asked about sort of where it would be in Asia, I'm going to, I'll wait and see. I'll see what the global marketplace looks like at that point in time and what presents the most asymmetric value. I don't know what it might be. Indonesian government bonds. It might be real estate. It might be hotels. I don't know. But that'll be an easy enough equation to figure out at the time. But I do think it'll be an extraordinary setup and one where you can probably largely put that trend trade on and just sit on it for the next 50 years. Let me ask you this though. When that opportunity does arise, whatever it is, do you think at that point the US dollar would still have that premium for that 4x currency exchange? No. No. No. The dollar will have, where I want to get out of the dollar is when it's when everybody is thinking that it's got nowhere to go but up. Right. So as you have this credit contraction take place, there's going to be more demand for dollars. If you, you can literally pull up a whole lot of the EM currencies and we've been watching them break one after the other. And this is before bat flu came and landed on our fucking doorsteps. And the one that's been holding out against it, sterling a little bit mostly the euro. And we were seeing one after another these break and I'm sitting there with my pet trader, Brad, and we're like, fucking hell, this is, so we went into this very long dollars gratefully. Not because we knew bat flu was coming along, but yeah. And that's worked out well. But if that, and look, anything is just probabilities. Good investing is just probabilities. I don't know for sure what's going to take place and nobody does. But that's a very decent probability and worked. And then you have psychology takes over. Because people build narratives around what's happening. You know what I mean? You have to, your brain has to solve a problem. Like if I showed you something that looks like an apple, but it's not an apple. I'll be like, what is this? I mean, and you'd be like, cool, ours is sort of an orange. Like your, your reference point is whatever you know that looks like it. And you have to try and solve what that looks like. And you come up with a story about, Oh, it's like, maybe they're, maybe they crossed an apple with an orange. And it's a whatever the fact that is, right? And in the same instance, when you have these events, let's say like the dollar runs, people will, will have to solve their problem ahead and they go, why is it running? Oh, it's because the US is they'll be, you'll see CNBC will come out with all sorts of shit around why the, why the dollars, the best place to be and why there's nowhere else and why it's going to, you know, there'll be justifications for why that exists. And, and most of the people will never even see it coming in the first instance. But, but when you get that, that environment, and then on a relative basis, when I look at these other currencies and other markets, you're going to start looking and you'll see, Oh, there's a country balance sheets strong, like you've had or a whole lot of bankruptcies, corporate bankruptcies, because of the dollar issue. And guess what, they're not going to be going out and using the dollar anymore as a funding mechanism, right? Because they've been torched, torched by it. And so they'll use something else. I don't know what that something else is. I'm going to ask you by default, something has to substitute it. So, but there will be look, I mean, there's a potential that this is a really massive game changer in terms of financial markets. Well, this is my question. This is my thinking. So you mentioned blockchain. So, and the ECB talked about it, even the monetary policy in the United States we're talking about is Bank of England, not Connie's been talking about it. So digital currencies, digital ledgers. At this point, even with MMT, this can't continue the free money printing unlimited debt. There has to be, let me put it a better way. Do you ever see, like I, my thesis is will eventually all go digital? How that looks, I don't know, each country will be a little bit different. But at least with digital, do you think we'll ever go back to a type of pegged digital dollar what has some type of deflationary or some type of interest bearing economic principles? Look, I, I don't know that what I do know is that our money systems archaic just in terms of functionality. There's a few things that it does all right, but there's a lot that it doesn't do well, custody, for example. Just wiring of funds internationally, like I wired some funds yesterday, some additional funds into my brokerage account. So I wired them from a Singaporean bank to a brokerage account. And they're still not there this morning. And they won't be. It'll probably be like T plus three maybe. Yeah. But I could send you Bitcoin now, and you'll have it like within seconds. So that's just a functionality issue. And we do it for fractions of a cent, depending on our volume and hash rates and all that kind of nonsense. Yeah, it can get more expensive. But then there's side chains and there's all sorts of different mechanisms to actually solve a lot of these problems. But basically you've got an entire financial archaic architecture that's already been built. It's already been built. And so when you've got the pressures in this system here and stuff breaking literally like on a daily basis, fucking breaking. I mean, you just look at like comics now. They're struggling to, you know, the physical and paper markets is a big disconnect. And a lot of the gold bugs are probably going, oh, see, we were right all along. I think probably a large part of it is actually just because of supply chains are broken. Like how do you move around the world? So actually getting physical settlement, you know, I've got a mate who works at one of the mints. And he's like, yeah, look, it's not a problem. We've got like, there isn't a problem in terms of availability of physical. They just can't like move it. Like an airlines are closed and everything else. So, but the point, I guess, is that when you think about how digital our blockchain solves that it literally solves those problems. So, so you've got all these pressures, you know, existing. And at the same time, you've got assist, you've got an entire as loosely connected at the moment, because it's all just a bunch of entrepreneurs who've built all sorts of different applications and everything else in this world over here. We've probably never had a greater opportunity or a greater potential to flip from one to the other than we do today. And then we will have going forward because we're a long way from. I have a thesis on this. So, pre-circuit the fed or centralized fed and the decoupling of gold. Early United States history, each state had their own currency back in the day and it used to compete. And so in the blockchain space, you have similar analogies. Bitcoin is King's, it's the first one and has the strongest hash network and censorship resistant, but you have the long tail. We could possibly see a very similar analogy where it's an opt-out system for people. Like right now, the companies I have, we don't even use wire transfers. We just pay people on crypto. It's just faster, cheaper, easier. You mentioned Thailand, we have a lot of freelancers in Southeast Asia, India. They don't want PayPal. They don't want, they mean like, what's that? Venmo, whatever. They want crypto. They want it right away. They want in your hand and for me, whatever, I'll pay you a dollar to send you 50 bucks. I don't care. It's right away. And so I think this is Bitcoin's also first ever exposure to a real economic situation because when it came out, it came out post-08 and it was a baby. And so now it's matured and it has mental mind share. A lot of people know about, for fuck's sakes, Bloomberg has a ticker about it. I remember when I got into Bitcoin, it was just Bitcoin and it was five of us in a fucking meetup group. And now I'm looking and I'm like, holy shit, all this in a couple of years. Like when people talk about Bitcoin's going nowhere, I'm like, I'm actually shocked it's here, like at what level it's at. Like I'm still blowing away. I'm like, I can't believe it's, we're at this level in a short period of time. So I think we're actually entering this possible opt-out option where you have all these digital types of value, you can call it, that people can have access to. The other thing that's interesting around it, when you have a lot of capital go into any particular sector, stupid money, yeah, you can have a lot of infrastructure that gets built and you have a lot of waste, but you also have a lot of things that get built that form the very foundation for something after it. To give you an analogy, the fact that you and I are speaking for pretty much close to free is as a consequence of that dot-com bubble, where money went in like the fiber optic cables that got laid, which were damn expensive, got laid at, people had the biggest visions around that, which were crazy, right? But at the time, it's like the whole pet Scott dot-com type of thing. There was no price to pay and I actually remember I was working at RFM Co in that era and you had these, what I thought were smart money managers, guys managing enormous amounts of capital that I was working with and I vividly remember this one situation, we're sitting down at lunch in the canteen and there was an IPO coming up for Orange. Orange is one of the telecom carriers in the UK and this manager at the table with me, he's like, yeah, we've got a certain allocation to that and it was like a lot, I can't remember what the sum was, it doesn't matter and it hadn't yet been priced. And I was like, well, I don't understand, how can you have an allocation when we don't yet know what the price of the share issuance is so that you can actually quantify, get your analysts to sit down and figure out whether you want to buy this thing or not? And he's like, no, we have to have an allocation. Our clients want an allocation, we have to have an allocation. And I realized I was like, fucking hell, it doesn't matter what the price is, they could come out with any price and he's going to buy it. And so that was the exuberant sort of period, money just going into all sorts of crazy things. What was interesting was that those five optic cables that did get laid and a whole host of other infrastructure laid the seeds and the foundation for what we have today, because everything got written down to cents on the dollar. So the people, the companies that picked up that infrastructure could then offer Zoom conferencing, Skype, whatever for nothing because their optics are so much lower. And we've had that experience in the crypto markets already. A lot of that should happen with all the altcoin boom. And it's been happening so much faster. It's like it's just been a compressed. We went through five economic crashes. Yeah, two, three years. Yeah, so that's kind of how I think about the you know, that sector has been through and the infrastructure is there and it's cheap and it's better and anyone can participate. And that's so there's the other thing behind it, of course, is that what we've been working through is this huge reliance on these godlike people at central banks. When that breaks, what are you left with? Yeah, well for starters, you can have government's topple for sure. But you have this massive need to trust in something. Now that's dangerous from the perspective that it's a time when it's entirely possible that you can have autocratic dictatorial types of leaders get voted in. But outside of that, just in the economic sphere and in the financial sphere, the fact that you've got this thing there, where you don't have to trust anyone, like Bitcoin's a trustless system. Like I don't have to trust you. I could sell you my house, right? But you're going to have to trust the legal system here. You're going to have to hire an attorney to make sure that he checks the title, that everything functions. And the reason that you would buy a property from me in this country is because there is a legal infrastructure where you can trust that, as opposed to, say, buying something in Pekina Faso, which is like, whoa. And in the crypto world, like all of that's eliminated. You don't have to go through that whole period. And it happens like that. You got, oh, I want to send, I want to get, but boom, boom, and it's, it gets resolved without anyone having to trust anyone else. That's completely fucking, it's mind blowing. Mind blowing. There is an interesting study, not study, but survey. So the video game, you know Fortnite, the video game? Yep. I'm not a player. I don't play video games either, but interesting survey I read. So they had a billion dollars of value go through that game. It was huge. I still think it's huge. And the simple question was, what do you want to get paid in the US dollar or the V bucks? That's their own digital currency they have. Overwhelmingly, everybody said V bucks. And so the mentality, these are, these aren't, these are like, what's below millennials? I forget. Anyways, the generation below millennials. And so they're bred already in the type of Web three psychology where I want a digital value over any physical value. In fact, a good friend of mine in New York, his first bank account was crypto. He was too young. The banks wouldn't want to give him a bank account. So he got into crypto very young, very young. And he's like, this is so much easier. It's intuitive for him. Download an app, get a password. Oh, cool. I'll tell you, I understand this. Like for me, this is like speaking English as my first language. And so bypass all the institutions that would say, no, you're too young. We can't work with you. Okay, I just don't need you. Here's something else that I care about that. Yeah, here's my phone. I'm done. See you later. I mean, it is that you grow up with it. It's like my kids, you know, the teenagers. Yeah. And, and they're just the digital natives, you know, I mean, I made them two years ago, three years ago. I said, I said to them, I'll give you 500 bucks. And they're like, whoa, great. I was like, but I'm going to give it to you in Bitcoin. And you need to go and research and find out how you would, how you would accept it, how you would store it, how you would, like, you need to know the whole process behind it. And then you're not allowed to sell it until you're like, until you're like 21. But so you and they're like, oh, well, it's pretty good. I get 500, but they're still one of the 500 bucks. Okay. So they, you know, they went through that process and learned how to, you know, how to download wallets, how to store it either on paper wallet or in a treasure and all that kind of stuff. But they're like, they took to it really quickly because they're really on these devices all the time. And so that's a whole component. And it's not just them. It's like the generation ahead of them that are much, much more comfortable with that world than any other. And, you know, it's the rest, the older guys, they just get dragged kicking and screaming into it anyway. You know, I've seen so many guys that are in their 50s and 60s that are into crypto now. Like, and they're coming around because they're seeing they kind of needed to see a lot of that infrastructure built to see it function to go, oh, yeah, I can see how that works. And it kind of took, you know, it's look, it's risk averse. Whereas when you're young and crazy, you'll take risks with anything. And so there's been an evolution, but it's been actually really rapid. I mean, 2008 wasn't that long ago. No, no, I'm actually dumbfounded at the speed that the whole ecosystem has taken off. But I think it's also, it's accelerated. Like, and if there's anything that's going to accelerate it, this is it. Oh, yeah, totally. This, I mean, you think about what would you want to own in this environment that that's uncorrelated. And that gives you autonomy, right? You think about it, like, I don't know what it's like in Toronto at the moment, but like, we're locked down here. Like, I can't leave my state. I'm allowed to go to the supermarket. I can't even go to the gym. It's closed. Same here. We're locked down here. And that happened so quickly. And then you look at other countries in history where they've had the same thing happen to all their banking, to their finances, right? And you start going, hmm, okay, how do I be anti-fragile in this environment? And it's very difficult. Yeah, you can go and buy physical gold. But it's not quite the same thing. It's not quite the same thing. Yeah. Well, this is a great segue for my last question is what advice would you have then for like regular people, people who are listening out there who might have been affected by this pandemic economically speaking? What's the best thing they should be paying attention to right now? Oh, man, educate yourself. This is going to be, if I'm right, the biggest transfer of wealth in our lifetimes, and possibly in the from over a hundred year period, we're right in it now. There's going to be massive opportunity here. Like, and you don't get these opportunities. Most people don't even get these opportunities in their life. Right? So if you're in it now, like just start paying attention and start educating yourself around what's actually taking place. What are the ramifications to that? Because look, there's, I manage money. So that's what we do fine. But there's plenty other ways you can do this because many people be like, Oh, what do I do? You know, I've got $5,000 of savings. I'm like, oh, fuck it. Just forget about your say, like, yeah, you can go and buy whatever I could, I could explain to you what you should buy. But really, that's, it's meaningless. Your biggest value is within your head. And if you can understand what's going on, you can position yourself and you can set up businesses like there's going to be enormous opportunity coming out of this. That that would be my, my advice. I mean, I'm I got more ideas than I've got the ability to execute on, right? So unlike, it's always a constant sort of battle of what I need to focus on, on what I need to focus on. But look, you just, just educate yourself. There's going to be huge opportunity. I mean, simple stuff. Like everybody think about it. Everyone right now is being forced into working as best as they can in a digital environment. And they're going to do it for a period, a long period of time, maybe four weeks, maybe three, maybe six. And there's probably going to roll and it'll, you'll go out of it and you might come back in. It's going to change behaviors. And what it's going to do is it's going to cause people to rethink about how they run used to operate. Like think about universities. This is going to expose universities for the ridiculous fucking waste of capital that they are. Yeah. So, um, digital learning, it's always been around, right? But it didn't click example, then, then we can go. You take Uber, right? Before Uber, there was a company, there was another company that was just like Uber. But it was about four, five years prior. When it came out, the availability and access of people had to smartphones and the data capacity they had was, was nowhere near. It just, it didn't reach the tipping point. So that was just too early, right? But by the time Uber came along, everyone had a smartphone, everyone had that capacity so you could get that viral explosion of usage. This, similar things are going to happen now because you're going to, there's this concentration of a number of things happening, a concentration of people working at home. There's also going to be a lack of supply of all sorts of goods. Start paying attention to that. What's not getting produced that's critical to humanity. Like there's, there's huge areas there and you can see that there'll be massive asymmetry there. And so, you know, if you're of an entrepreneurial mindset, man, you just, it's like the Pandora's box and stuff. I've been looking at our organic urban farming for a very long time. There's massive upside in that right now. Like ridiculous. Even the land appreciation in Canada, the value for land farming. It's the best performing real estate asset class. Yeah. And the interesting thing is it hasn't, people have been looking at it for years and years and years. And if you, if you, there's something else that I've been looking at for some time now and a good buddy of mine who's a private banker in Singapore put me on to it, which is solar cycles. And solar cycles. Solar cycles. Yeah. Monder minimum, monder maximum. There's, look, there's a, there's a professor. What's your name? Zoccova Valentina Zoccova. People can look at her stuff. There's a number of outlets out there. But basically, you go through solar cycles and this is just science. It's just like, like I said, we go through. And we are going into a cold. Yeah. Monder minimum. I've been studying this for a long time, which always results in a number of things that results in crop failures that results in cooler temperatures, which results in more viruses as a consequence of cooler temperatures. It typically results in some, every, every pair before is resulted in high inflation of, of heart assets of like things like foodstuffs. It's also often resulted in toppling of governments because when people are hungry, they get pissed off. And so, and it's, if you, you can pull up like the softs, they've been smashed like they're nobody has paid any attention to them for a long, long time. So that's an error that we've been looking at. Natty gas comes into that quite tightly as well. But yeah, so, and that's kind of on top of all of the other fun stuff that we've just been talking about. We can go on for hours talking about this. I love this, but Chris, there's one thing you so much for coming on the show and sharing us your, your thoughts on what's happening. If people want to know more about you and the resources, what's the best resource for them to check out? So there's, there's an answer management company that we run, which is called Glen Orchie Capital. You got a Glen Orchie Capital.net. Otherwise, there's capitalist exploits, which is blog that I share my thoughts on and all the research that we do for our clients we put on there and sell that. So that's where you can find me, campus exploits.com.at. And yeah, Chris, thank you so much, man. I appreciate it.