 Okay, we're back. We're live. It's a five o'clock clock and I'm Jay Fiedel here on ThinkTech and we're doing community matters about Hank Stackpole who was a Lieutenant General of the Marine Corps and who died 10 days ago or so and the community in the military and local community is mourning him. And both gentlemen knew him, knew Hank Stackpole, and both gentlemen had, what do I say, a connection in the service and out of the service with him, part of the flag officer group, may I say. So can we talk about his life and times, Tom? Can you give us your impression of how his career was going for him? Well, let me say first off, you know, Hank's death is a tremendous loss to the community and he impacted Hawaii in so many, many ways. You know, I first started to work with him in 1999 when I came out here and took command of the Pacific Fleet. And of course, Hank was the very first director of the Asian Pacific Center and he came in, stood it up, made it the key part of our outreach throughout the Pacific Command and that was just one chapter of a fabulous career as a Marine who served in Vietnam, who obviously was injured very seriously in Vietnam, who rose to the ranks to command of all of the Marines in the Pacific, had a very distinguished career in the private sector for a number of years. And then of course, ran the Asian Pacific Center. And after he retired from the Asian Pacific Center, I think it was in 2004 or so, he continued to contribute to the Boy Scouts to the Armed Services YMCA. Everywhere you look, you could find Hank Stackpole's fingerprints on this community. Yeah, although he left, you know, chief executive position at APCSS, he stayed with the APCSS, the Daniel Gayanoi Foundation that surrounded that. I think he stayed in that for some time. But he was instrumental in developing the whole system, wasn't he? At APCSS, he brought people together in a kind of diplomatic way from various places in Asia. It was like a super east-west center for executives, for military, and he put them together in condo rooms in Waikiki. They had to live together, even though they were from different countries, that may not have been all that friendly. And then they got friendly personally. But the notion that when they went home again, they could pick up the phone and call their roommate. And I met some of them, I interviewed a number of them. And that was all his idea. That was the way he was setting this up, and it worked really well. Well, the mission of the Asian Pacific Center is to deal with a part of the civil-military relationship within the national security establishment. So, as you know, the Pacific Command and all the components, the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force go out and exercise and train with their counterparts throughout the Pacific. But, you know, those are more traditional war-fighting constructs. The Asian Pacific Center filled a real gap, and that is, you know, how do members of the military throughout the Pacific, whether they're from Indonesia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Japan, Korea, how do they relate to their governments? And of course, as you know, we believe in control of the military. Well, this allowed those senior officers to come in and understand how key institutions of government work. You know, the rule of law, for example. How does the military interact with their respective communities? All of the things that make the military a key and supportive element of their interagency, the different government bodies within their countries. And so, Hank understood this, you know, to suit the nuts. But the way you make that work is you have to bring these officers from all over Asia and the Pacific together. And as you pointed out, some like the Indians and the Pakistanis may not have always had great relationships. But the Asian Pacific Center brought them together to understand these key aspects of government and to build relationships among themselves going forward. It was a perfect job for him, wasn't it? He was so well suited. You know, General Gardner was telling me about his job as a as a PAO back out of Princeton, was it as a lieutenant? Yeah, so he did develop the right background for where he ended up as a, you know, he was an English major, graduated out of Princeton, initially assigned to, you know, as a second lieutenant, he was a platoon commander for a combat engineer platoon. And his first job right after that was as the public affairs officer in Camp Lejeune. And I cannot imagine General Stackpole getting those orders, these are the orders that every any hard driving infantry officer dreads being a public affairs officer, Camp Lejeune. And then from there, though, he was assigned as a PAO to Iwakuni Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, where he worked for the Far East Network, which was the armed forces network at that time in there. And I think that's where that was his first of four separate tours in Japan. And already here as a first lieutenant, obviously an articulate individual as an English major out of Princeton, he's interacting with the community. And we know how fraught the relations are between the US military and Japanese and the Okinawans. And in this case, he started out at this young age, and it just carried through his career. And he, you know, the leadership is obvious, he commanded a unit at every grade, every rank he added in the Marine Corps, second lieutenant, first lieutenant, and he was a company commander as a captain in Vietnam in 66, 67. And that's where he received this, this previous injury with a 50 caliber round to the leg, and then survived a crash of the Medevac helicopter and was actually triaged as, you know, permanent routine or not, not necessarily was not going to get the priority of the doctors. And it's his, his chaplain, who is another story in itself, Chaplain Vic Krulak, who's the son of one of the most famous Marines, Bruce Krulak, who had been commander here, then, you know, pushed hard with the surgeons to change his triage status and treat him. And then, and of course, he survived and was assigned and went back to DC area to recoup. And once again, even in this recoup period, in the late 60s, he went and got a master's degree in political science in his off time at GW University, and was then assigned to command the, the Marine portion of the NROTC unit at Stanford, got another master's degree. And of course, he is setting himself up, as you can just see now we're in the, in the 70s and the 80s, and he's getting this background of developing and going back and forth into various jobs in the Marine Corps, coming on. I had the honor of working for him in 1986 and 87, and one of his, and his, I think his third or fourth tour in Japan. He was a one star, he was 15 years my senior, I of course served for 37 years. He was 15 years my senior, I was a young major, and learned a lot from General Stackpole, from his very courtly, gentlemanly manner, and a very tough, tough, tough master. Well, Marine Corps in the days, the formative days there was the Marine Corps under Chesty Puller, who was a tough commandant, wasn't he? And he was kind of a symbol of it in those days, in the days of Vietnam. I remember hearing about that when I was in the service. And the Marine, Marine Birthday Ball was really special. Yeah, it still is, and it's around the world event, and we're proud of that, of course. And you know, of course Chesty Puller, I was actually stationed here in Hawaii in 1950, when he, as a colonel, lived over at Pearl Harbor, I had the privilege of living in his house. He called away to Korea, and then, you know, had been very famous in World War II, and then also, when he was called away to Korea, he was called away from his house here in Pearl Harbor, and then, you know, led the Marines and chose some reservoir, etc. But that predates General Stackpole a bit, and General Stackpole had a reputation in the Marine Corps of being this very stern and thoughtful, extremely articulate leader, and of course, very erudite. I felt that the moment I met him. I had him on a radio show 15 years ago, and when it was over, he stood up to leave, and he said he had to go. And I said, it's okay, I'll follow you anywhere. And that's the kind of guy I thought he was. So Tom, you know, he worked for you. He was the head of the Marine Corps for the Pacific under your command, right? No, he actually preceded my time as the Pacific commander. He worked for me as the head, the president of APCSS, because of that time, APCSS reported to the Pacific command. You know, I want to go back to something Emo mentioned, and that was that Hank got a second degree at Stanford. You know, we sent Hank Stackpole to Stanford right at the toughest period of time during the Vietnam War, you know, the early 70s. And we've talked about how articulate he was and his diplomatic skills, that no job in the world could challenge you more in that particular period of time, because you can remember what the unrest was like on US campuses. And he went in there, he actually had command of the ROTC unit. And he had the really unenviable job of to try to explain to faculty and students like, you know, the non military students as to why serving your country was important, why what we were doing in Vietnam was important to our national security. And why they had a value, these marines and naval officers or future marines and naval officers in this ROTC unit, because it was a tough period of time. And, you know, the Marines are in midshipment are walking around with hair that looks like yours and mine right now, Jay, they had short haircuts, and everybody else had hair down to their shoulders. And so they I was away. So I was in an ROTC unit during this period, not at Stanford. And I had short hair, but we did not. We could only wear uniforms, like a half a day a week or something. And, but you're absolutely dead on this was the period Kent State, you know, pepper gas on the campuses, really tough time and the leaders, I mean, you're right dead on by the leadership. And he was he was very effective. I mean, you've ever spent any time with with Hank. He's hugely persuasive. I mean, he and he he does it in a manner, you know, without offending or challenging a person's ego as he is as he is reinforcing the key points of his argument. And he could listen. And he listened very effectively to which was a skill you certainly needed during this period of time. And you know, I was looking back at his record, they gave him a Legion of Merit as a professor of Naval Science and an NROTC unit. And I don't think I've ever seen it before. But it was it was in recognition of just how difficult the task and how effective he was in, you know, a troubled period of time for our nation. Well, he got a lot of awards. Of course, he got the Purple Heart. He got something from Silver Star, Silver Star, the third highest award for, you know, he got two awards in Asia from Asian governments, from the Japanese government. And there was a second one also. So I mean, he's been around. He he'd he'd he'd done statesman like things. He'd made friends among people in foreign in foreign service. And the result was, you know, I perceive that in you and you gentlemen will both have seen this happen. Sometime probably after Vietnam, the American military became statesman. Their mission changed. And they were they were part of soft power, smart power. They were connecting on a diplomatic level. Am I right about that? Yes, I think so. And and of course, Hank participated in one of the very significant soft power efforts of of of our time. And that was remember the flooding in Bangladesh, Bangladesh. That's what I was trying to think of you have Bangladesh, flooding in Bangladesh, which really tremendously devastated that country. And and they put together Operation Sea Angel, which was essentially a maritime operation to provide humanitarian assistance to to that country. And and and I'm sure that was that made a mark on him in terms of what he became president of AP CSS. You know, how do we how do we teach those soft skills also as well as the military skills? You know, how do you how do you help your your fellow man, whether it's in a flood like that, and earthquake in other countries, the tsunami situations we've seen in Southeast Asia, and how the military and not just as a part of a single country, but as as a multilateral force can bring their capability together in a disaster relief or humanitarian effort. Well, that kind of power in yours to the benefit of the country for sure. And the other metal I was I was referring to is the Vietnamese cross of gallantry. So he had friends there too. And he had done good things there. So it's a statement. I'm sorry, Ema, please. No, I was just going to say the the the Sea Angel operation actually set the pattern for even how those sort of relief operations are done today in the area. He was a joint task force commander, went forward with a very small headquarters to figure out what had to be done, had different kinds of assets here and there, special operations people and air force and bringing those all together and dealing locally with the the population. I think it was like 140,000 debt. It was a type of a cyclone, I guess they call them there. And the, you know, a predecessor of what we've seen with the tsunami and sort of almost routine disasters here in the western Pacific. Sorry, I was going to say that that kind of background, Jay, allowed him essentially to write the curriculum for the agency. Because, you know, he goes in with a clean sheet of paper. And he has to he has to figure out, you know, how are we going to put a faculty together and put a curriculum together that will make a difference in the ability of these countries to support essentially democracy throughout Asia and the Pacific. And a lot of these countries, the democratic instincts at the start, you know, weren't as well-formed. Certainly not as well formed as they were after Hank spent six years there teaching in the way a military operates properly within, you know, a liberal democracy. Well, you know, there have been emerging liberal democracies in Asia in that same period. And I believe this was a really good diplomatic move to establish a PCSS. It was Dan and no, I wasn't he was behind it or supporting it anyway, right? Yeah, it was very much Dan and away. And, you know, he we picked that land down there in Fort Darussi, you know, that it it sits right where the old club used to be when I was I think a junior in high school down there at Fort Darussi. And I remember spending many happy hours there with an emphasis on the word happy. Yeah. And and it was it was Dan's vision to put that together. There were there was something similar in Europe, you know, the the Marshall Center that had been established to provide some of the same kind of civil military training, but there hadn't been anything in the in the Pacific. And another reason it was particularly important is that, you know, multilateral institutions in the Pacific, you know, are not are not like those that had been formed in Europe, like NATO, and where there was a very strong tradition of bringing all these countries together and then sitting and collaborating, you know, as one. So a PCSS that the vision of it from Dan and no, and the execution of it from Hank Stackpole built a a lasting and important, you know, multilateral institution here in this area of responsibility. Well, definitely an achiever and achiever in in the service and out. And you know, you you fellows have like a club of flag officers that you must see each other, or at least you remember collaborating with each other during your careers and all that. So this must this must have a significant effect for you to lose him. He was 85, but you know, you would have hoped to he would live longer. I mean, how do you feel about it you admirals and generals people? I mean, it's only around the corner, you know, sounds like a sounds like a a very appropriate point in time to to meet your maker. I mean, you know, Hank, as we've talked about before, he contributed on on so many levels. Even even after he left a PCSS and that he was he was a force within the community. And and you know, there aren't a large number of senior retired military officers here. It's surprising, you know, based on the number of folks that come out here and serve and in active duty. But it's a Dan and I reminded me of this, it's a relatively small number. And there's and there's lots of reasons for it because people have families on the mainland. There aren't a lot of aerospace and defense jobs here in Hawaii. And it's a relatively, you know, small community. So when a person like Hank Stackpole makes that kind of commitment, you know, I'm going to live here for the rest of my life. He's doing it for all the right reasons. Yeah. How do you feel about it, Ema? Well, I mean, General Stackpole is active even in the Marine Corps. You know, the Marine Corps, you never really, you're always a Marine, once a Marine, always a Marine. But we had often had retired general officer convocations, second of all sites to call them. And General Stackpole participated up until just a couple of years ago, regularly in those annual events, and was up on marine issues where he had served a number of years in recruit battalion, you know, alternating between infantry jobs and sort of you've done so many different things in the Marine Corps. And once again, his ability to articulate and get to the heart of it, you know, and always had that little kind of wry smile when he would say something sort of made to think, right, sort of sarcastically and a great leader. And certainly we miss him and, you know, the council that he had provided. Yeah, you know, I saw in him, we've been playing pictures of him during the show. And I saw in him a Marine, you know, I mean, you don't get to look ordinary people, ordinary mortals don't look that way. It's something about the parade ground is something about the uniform. It's something about the stiff neck. And the special character, you know, how does that compare with the Navy Admiral? Well, I would tell you, we, we love the Marine Corps. And the Marine Corps does a couple things that the Navy, we don't have in our skill set. And one is marching. And the other is handling small arms. They do it really, really well. You know, sailors have a lot of great skills too. But the Marines, the Marines are the first folks in and we recognize that we try to support their maritime efforts and obviously, you know, back to amphibious warfare. And today, in terms of expeditionary warfare, but it's a, it's a partnership. And it has been, you know, for, for decades. And Hank understood that, you know, Hank, Hank was part of the fleet Marine Force. And, and he and he not only enjoyed, but he appreciated that particular role. So yeah, it's, you got a Marine here and a sailor on your, on your video right now. And, and we're joined at the hip. I know that. But you know, one thing we've been talking about is Hank Stackwell's connection with, with Hawaii. He made a decision to stay here. He invested himself, you know, it was no small thing to build a school that way with, you know, everybody watching and making sure that he hadn't navigated and negotiated his way around to create that and be very, you know, innovative in the process. So he was truly invested. And then he was part of Pacific Forum. He was there every time I went down there. You were there too. You know, hearing out all the diplomatic people and the military people who showed up at Pacific Forum still do. And so, you know, what, what I wonder about, I'd like to ask you both is, you know, when I came here, the military was a huge leg in the stool. Of course you had tourism, you had agriculture, and you had the military. That was it. I mean, the rest was accessory. And over the years, we've seen all of those things change, agriculture changed, tourism got to be a mono economy. The military maybe is not as numerous as they used to be. I really don't know. And, you know, and then you see the passing of Hank Stackball, the passing of a senior officer, a flag officer who was committed. And you're part of it too, both of you. And I wonder where that's all going. Is it, you know, we need to reimagine our economy now. We need to see what stools are on the legs are on the stool. We need to see what the military is going to be like here. It wasn't too long ago I conducted a program downtown about, you know, about what the Navy was doing, what the military was doing in Hawaii, and what kind of engagement we could have the business and Navy community. And there were protesters outside. What is this? They were protesting the military. That's what they were protesting. So a certain amount of resistance and pushback here. And I wonder, you know, somehow Hank, Hank's passing raises the question of what is the future of not only the retired part of the military, but the whole military here. I mean, the United States Navy has been here since 1850. So question, where are we going? And, you know, does this raise the issue with you? And how do you feel about that? Yeah, I think it provides a time to reflect, right? And of course, you know, you've got folks that, we've lost Hank Stackpole, but we gained Emo Gardner, you know, as a full-time resident. There you go. Kind of the next man up. But, you know, I think the military future here is actually very strong. I mean, we all know the importance of Asian, the Pacific, the preponderance for our national security interests are here in this region. The Pacific Command is a foundation of that. All the component commanders are represented here in Hawaii. The interactions with our allies throughout the region is very, very strong. And I think the community support is really great. I mean, we all knew when Dan and I was here that the support was rock solid in the Congress. But today, look at the Military Affairs Council. It's as robust as I've ever seen it. Of course, Connie Lau is the chairman right now, and Dave Kerry was before, and guys like Mike O'Neill before that. But a number of events where we connect the military to the community now is increasing as opposed to falling off, and the interaction with the commanders even higher. So I think the future is bright. I think from the standpoint of their impact on the community and the economy, you're not going to see any loss of importance there whatsoever. And I think you'll see just as we have for years, you'll see military members retire and stay here and make a lasting contribution. I was up at the Pacific Fleet today, and on the way out, somebody handed me a bio of a Navy captain that's getting ready to retire and would like to stay right here. And so I'll help him out. That's great. That's what you did. I mean, you went into business, you served on all these tech corporations, executive and board member and so forth. And now with HCI. So you're committed in the same way. And it's great to have you in the community. So what would you add to that, Ima? Well, the National Defense Strategy or ants are the future. As we begin to prioritize and probably economize on our military budget, focus is going to continue to be on the Pacific. There's a lot of long late plans that were more focused on readiness than ever. So the shipyard is taken on ever more importance. And there's more money going into readiness, which means more maintenance periods and shipyards, etc. Marines are we're reducing our presence on Okinawa itself. First, they're completing the construction of bases in Guam, and they're going to move 4700 Marines from Okinawa to Guam. And when that's complete, there'll be another probably about 2500 Marines coming to Hawaii. But the overall intent is to reduce Okinawa by 10,000 Marines. Currently somewhere around 20,000 there now. So there's no question that, you know, we're in the center of the of action in the future. Regardless of what happens overall, the Pacific region's got to become priority area and Hawaii is is our forward outpost out here. Yeah, and there will be action. I mean, it's huge and it's growing and changing and sometimes it's controversial. And we really have to have a military presence all through the Pacific, never more true than now, don't you think? Here's a memorial that came in, a testimonial that came in during the show from Stan Osserman, the general in the Air National Guard. I met General Stackpole at APCSS. I didn't know him very well. But every time I talked to him, my respect for him grew stronger. He was an exceptional leader, a model Marine and a gift to Hawaii and any of the world he touched. We lost a real treasure when we lost him, Stan Osserman. Well, Admiral, do you have any words you want to leave with the public about the passing of Hank Stackpole? I mean, it's a time to, it's a time to express that, I think. Yeah, I think one thing I'd like to say before we sign off here is, as you know, this Stan and living in Hawaii is a partnership and his wife Vivian was, is a trooper, remains a trooper and she's played a huge role here in Hawaii also. I mean, I've seen her working, you know, non-profit and volunteer activity for the full 20 years I've been here and she's been a tremendous force for good here in this community. And so, you know, we provide our condolences to Vivian. She was a great partner for over 50 years and she'll still be part of this community going forward. I'm sure she will. That's wonderful. Yeah. And Emo, what would your parting words be? What would you express about the passing of Hank Stackpole? Well, we've lost a great marine leader who has, but he has created generations of marine leadership behind him. I actually think I'm, I mean, an example is 15 years, his junior, but working for him and his staff and I, I mean, I carried on and I think that that tradition, such an example, right? And I just, you know, I just keep coming back to this word quarterly and he looked like what a marine should look like and he has, you know, he's left a great legacy. Well gentlemen, it's great. I'm left with a burning question about whether I should join the Navy or the Marines. Maybe I could check in with your recruiting offices. Well, we'll take, we'll take one of each kinds of recruits. You just send their names to us and we'll sign them up and we'll promise them just like Hank Stackpole, they'll have a tremendously rewarding career. Absolutely. Thank you, Admiral Fargo. And thank you, then a general gardener. Great to have you guys on the program. Wonderful.