 So We do have four members of the board here, so I'm going to call us meeting to order John said he would not be able to make it a gather So It's a regular meeting of the town of Berlin development view board. Welcome. Thank you You have four members of the board myself Bob one chair to a Nelson On the screen. We have Carla Weasel who is a vice chair we have And we have our recording secretary Carla Preston So Before we begin, let me swear in Anybody who tends to give testimony before this board tonight, please raise your hand. Thank you Square tell truth not the truth and as before this board tonight on the penalties of perjury. I do I do Thank you All right, we might as well proceed immediately and ask you to give us a Overview of the project so we understand it. I'm going to probably ask you to walk us through the map a little bit But why don't you give us an overview of what you won't propose to do here? So we proceed rapidly sure So I own this piece of property. It's just into Berlin over the Montpelier line on Northfield Street route 12 from our route 12 and It's actually two parcels of land that are connected together. There's two lots I own them both one lot one lot two of a subdivision that happened a few years back the Front lot has a it's mostly an open field It has a log cabin or a log structure in the middle of it that was originally built in the 1970s is my understanding. It's about a thousand square feet a thousand four square feet And my intent is to the reason I'm here tonight is that put an addition on that building a 36 by 40 addition More or less the south end of it That We can increase the square footage of the space and I'm a woodworker by trade I have a cabinet shop and my intent is to move my business into that those two that expanded space Matter curiosity, are you used that existing log building now? It's rented out rented out Yeah, I see very little activity there So yeah, there's a couple guys in there that use it to store mostly store stuff There's electrician that stores some things in there, and there's not a whole lot going on And you're a resident of East Montpelier resident of East Montpelier, correct. Gotta get in the move I didn't know if you were in that just the house lot to or not I don't live there No, I rent that out as well. Okay. So that's rented still old lot to go correct Questions members of the board Yeah, I have a question. I didn't catch it if you said it What is the front building that you want to expand? What's businesses in there? The both with a current existing structure and the addition will both be a woodworking shop Okay cabinet shop Okay, thank you That must be a busy trade right now I Okay If there are no other questions by board members Tom, do you have any comments you want to make? Mr. Chair, okay. Well, we have a nice narrative from you I'm sorry Okay So the Criteria are the site plan reviewer are clear starts with parking and loading And you've given us narrative, but perhaps you want to paraphrase it for us. Sure parking and loading is mostly in the In the front of the building I'm planning on a to what I proposed is two parking places on the Front the driveway side, I should guess maybe of the addition Plane room for deliveries turn around it's a pretty flat area, which is really nice snow can be pushed either direction And a gravel Gravel drive which is fitting without leading up to the house is currently back Talk about your your narrative here. You say our regulation. Yeah, yeah, sure So the regulation I think based on square footage of the two structures together would require three parking places Based on just though, I know it's my business. I know the space I need I'm proposing two two spots instead. There is plenty of room there I'm happy to add that third third spot if you guys would like it, but it is less Impermeable surface to have less parking places and Less interruption of the field that's around You are expanding the access drive a little bit to accommodate your new building correct Right for the parking on the side along the side as well. Yeah, and that's also partly for means of egress out the side That's gonna be a gravel gravel. Correct. Yeah, which is of course impervious. Yeah Of course don't know I Don't be a circle circulation parking and loading Yep. Once again, we you know my business takes probably You raise hard dress parking So just loading loading is there's adequate room to pull the trucks up alongside of the building as well as to back up a larger truck In the very maybe once a year in frequency that it may happen but access To the facility For off of route 12. Yeah. Yeah, so there's currently a road cut at route 12 Which services the? Existing log structure as well as the house that's behind it So it's one drive one road cut off of route 12 and I'm proposing to keep that exactly like it is Probably would improve the driveway some in here just to help it not get as muddy if they're going to increase any traffic on there But it's actually really nicely drained soil. It holds up pretty well with its current traffic So no no amendments to the actual road cut area itself It is a right-of-way apparently to a lot number three. Is that right? I believe that there is a right-of-way to lot three Actually, yeah, there may be a right-of-way a lot three. He goes the great western property members Western did this subdivision a couple years. Yeah, he retained I think lot he retained lot three Right, I kind of which continues with his acreage his residence Yeah, is in the structures in a city of Montpelier, right, but he wanted this this lot Yeah, but he this is his access to that. I think he also has access to his other he does. Yeah access both ways Yeah, I raise that only because the intersection with 12 is a terrible intersection I mean only because you're sort of kitty corner crossing down river. Yeah, you're very close to 1st Street Yeah, and so if you were proposing something that had a higher volume of traffic This would raise some real concerns. Okay, you would be looking for a second road cut perhaps. I would be asking you to perhaps Righted a world. Yeah. Well, it's the state of Vermont highway. I understand still They would get involved if we yeah, I understand It was a high traffic thing. Obviously you're talking about yeah one or two additional employees Yeah Questions Here we know Tom Tom, what are we classifying this use as It's a it's in a mixed use Location now Carla, right, but what is this but what are we what did you? Classify this as far as the zoning rise. I'm just curious. I think it's commercial retail Okay So it's permitted use This zone Further questions Carla No, no, that's fine. Just Go ahead I've had a chance to read everything. I'm not sure everybody else has but basically pedestrian access I'm not planning any specific stuff. There's not there's no sidewalks along route 12 at that point There's not a lot of by-school or pedestrian traffic. It's not the buildings I don't have a retail showroom or anything like that. It's gonna bring people in It's strictly it's kind of a woodworking wood shop just for the employees of myself So I'm not imagining any pedestrian or bicycle traffic Really up the drive to the structure at all Everybody Landscaping Landscaping I'm proposing the you know the in that area the other structures that are there right across the street is the U-Haul dealership and Flywheel industrial arts and kind of commercial building there that Jason Merrill owns And then Morse auto on the other corner The screening there's already screening like a natural head row Both the I'm calling at the south end of the property but heading towards the trailer park towards 1st Street There's a natural head row that screens those Residences that heads rose on your property isn't that I think it's probably pretty much right on the line But it is there's plenty of it that is it's not just one narrow bay It's actually several feet wide and then the same thing is true going toward to the north There's a residence that is several hundred feet away more than 400 feet away But there is a natural barrier and screening both of landscape on that so proposing to preserve the existing Screenings that's already there Well the under 3204 C Landscaping plans. I normally a landscaping plan is required Okay but under the 340 C the DRB can wave that requirement if the This minimal no changes existing landscaping so You really are requesting in fact since you're not provided with a landscaping plan. You're asking for a waiver. Oh, yeah Yeah, I just bring that up that 32 before sees applies Does they be objective waving that requirement? I Just kind of have a concern because you know what I I look at the property. It doesn't seem to be that screened To me and you know, maybe it's just me and I I don't know, you know, I think This is an opportune time to actually meet the regulations and screen it Well, it's actually set back fairly far from the road My view is that set back from front of the road It does have screening north and south as you grab along 12, right, but it doesn't have it along the road along the road No On the other hand, I'm not sure that I know those buildings are any more Objectible than any other building in that area. In fact, they're probably the least objectionable buildings in the area With all due respect to anybody else's own property there So I hear you I'm not sure I agree with you Well, it would have been nice to have seen a landscape plan, but Um and to have some proposed landscaping, but you know, if I'm in the minority here, I understand I'm strong on landscaping. Yes, you are We appreciate that Carla to our house are you Fine, but can I go Kim? I hate just I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but on the application that says light industrial and I just light industrials conditionally you so I just want to make sure we do this, right? procedurally So that everything's kosher Those warrant is a mixed use I think maybe iris thought it was But it's been worn as mixed use Carla No, I mean the On the it says application is made to extend and it says like light industrial is checked which I can see why this might be considered light industrial. I guess, but I mean, I have no problem with the with what you're doing I just want to make sure that we don't mess up the process Okay, are we in the mix of your zone? We are I thought I thought I looked it up and we were on the mix here so Really doesn't matter what the application says. We're gonna mix you so And I'm not referring to the zone. I'm referring to the activity I'm not following you to to the use Because if you go to mixed use light if it's if it's in fact a light industrial activity, it's like conditional use I see what she's saying. She's saying that the the work this the Workshop is a light industrial use Potentially, I mean I can see it Very I think if the scale is larger it's definitely larger than what what The applicant is proposing that that it would would fall. This is such small scale. I don't okay I don't think we fall into light industrial Okay, I'm not like I said. I just want to make sure procedurally we don't Do anything that we might Does the applicant agree with that? I would agree that yeah, I think it's mostly my ignorance as to what you know Categorizes as which and I frankly don't know specifically what the Letter of the law difference is with a letter of the code, but I would consider it more commercial than industrial I guess I'm okay with that Yeah, I I think it falls into permitted use under several categories very frankly Under in the mixed use district So, you know, you characterize it as storage you characterize it as a repair and service It all falls in the same category. So Okay, so I just wanted to raise the issue because it I just want you know, that's fine. Thank you We're on landscaping. I know it's gonna ask you to do more on landscaping. I'm okay with the landscaping whatever waiver I am too. I mean I always like to see more landscaping but This project we're still kid. I'm okay with it. Yeah, I think given the location given its Type of structure it is Now having said that we'd all probably wouldn't mind you planted a few bushes out in front to break up the landscape in front of the buildings, okay, so I'm not prepared to make that a criteria But uh, I think there would be a step in the right direction. You've heard the morning. Yep. I agree with the chair on that noted Hours of operation We run pretty standard hours of operation sometime between The earliest we're there is six in the morning, but that's very very rare Mostly it's seven till six at night something along those lines every once in a while we're there in the evening Now are you operating out of the existing structure now? Are you I'm not you're operating a different structure in the small player? I'm actually in berlin. Yeah Yeah, I'm up off right off the east. Uh, I'm sorry off of route two Just past the gmc truck dealership in where the wig goddess is the anisoresis. Yeah, I rent from steve ribollini up there It'll be a little bit of a drive to work. It's gonna be a little longer. He's moving. He's moving. Well, I'm moving I'm moving to berlin You know, there's space on the drb The Well, we could use the first on the air Setbacks you've shown that you meet the setback requirements. Anybody have questions about setbacks? No outdoor lighting outdoor lighting I Intend I know like all night long security lighting just for safe egress and access to the building It'll meet the Dark sky requirements. I brought a couple of cut sheets with me of the style of thing that I'm considering If that'd be helpful Now those are going to shut off at night. They will be shut out. Yeah, they'd be shut off So they're motion activated motion activated based on your testimony. Yes. Yeah, okay And no yard lights no yard lights. I gather you're gonna have a light over the garage door Correct and one over each person door each. Okay Yeah Questions done lady Stormwater drainage storm water drainage, uh, it's the Not really changing the landscape so much. So there's a large swale Or drainage that runs right along route 12 and we're close enough to that that I think most of the storm water will run that way the driveway is also well drained currently is in above above the Land on both sides and there's also a drainage on the south side of the driveway. So I think What the existing drainage is will adequately take care of any storm water And you're not obviously disturbing a large area. We're not disturbing a large area at all Questions don't want to drainage No utilization of renewable energy resources municipal service impact I see no municipal service impact per se You have good access for emergency vehicles And you indicated it's not a flood hazard You do provide us with an elevation of the buildings Yeah You wanted to just quickly explain what you're proposing there. Yeah, so the gable of the existing log building runs I'm gonna say parallel with route 12 and my plan is to make the A Ridge of the new building run parallel with that So basically extending the existing structure, although the Edition will be higher. We taller than the existing log log building Natural wood siding on the outside metal roofing Garage door on the south end of the building for deliveries and access and then person doors on the Next to that garage door and then one on each of the long sides of the one on the long side Log structure one on the long side of the addition And what type of material is the building going to be made of it's wood framed wood frame and siding is siding's wood wood Wood paneling or uh, like a natural like boards. Yeah, tongue and groove or ship lot. Yeah, okay Nice Hope we could find a good carpenter What I got it. I got it. Ashley. I'm curious. So the log building is in good condition. It's in great shape Really? Yeah, the found the you know that soil is really well drained right through there and the um The slab that it's on is in great condition There's a smu few hairline cracks, but the slab itself's in Great shape in the log buildings that has big overhang logs. It's been there a lot. How much does that build? I want to say early to mid 70s is what I was told and um It's in great shape. Yeah, the bottom logs. There's a couple soft spots, but nothing that I'm concerned about at all Yeah, it's in great shape Any questions about the buildings No Do you have anything else you want to tell us about the project? Not in particular. I'm excited about it The um Any information you want to share No, not it. Mr. Chair. I think it's a pretty self-explanatory application Welcome to the town of berlin. Yes Questions by the board No motion to close the hearing I have a question I have always wanted to learn woodworking and I I can't find any classes around. Do you know anybody that teaches? There I do know a couple there's a couple different schools actually in vermont that teach woodworking You can take class down at yester morrow school down in the weights field area So a combination of yesterday and tomorrow and yeah, there's another one called the vermont school of woodworking Which is up in chitlinon county And both offer pretty good introductory woodworking classes. I used to teach a ton down at yester morrow I haven't taught there in years, but I did teach there for many years and um The folks up at the vermont woodworking school are really are pretty good as well And then there's a guy the shop teacher at u32 dav basis Is has always made noise about wanting to teach woodworking In the off hours in the summer. So he I bet if you yeah, they used to do it at spalding. I think but they don't do it in in berlin. They don't do it anymore Yeah Yeah, interesting. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, good. It's a good backup career for an attorney No, I just you know, I see these things My boss had a had a really it was just a piece of wood that was made into this You know bowl and it was had it was flawed, but it was just gorgeous and I'm like, how do I learn to make that kind of stuff? It was from it was from uh, what's that expensive place in quichy, um Simon pierce. So it probably cost fortune. Yeah Yeah, I have nice stuff down there I just went to portland, oregon and the hotel was um Accented with these big strips of wood. It would be hanging like the separate areas. It was gorgeous. Uh The uh high school that serves Um willis then in that area they offer night classes in all they do full turning they do All right, thank you Just don't get so involved. That's good. That's good. The important business. Yeah, really Just don't get so involved that you have to quit the board you're on Well, you know That time may be coming up Um Okay That we close the hearing. Thank you second Seconded by tour. Um, is there a discussion at motion? Hearing none all those are paid that motion. Please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye And uh, since it's unanimous, this hearing is closed So how the process works likely this board will go in the deliberative session tonight and discuss this project. Okay, uh From from that outcome. I'll contact you. Okay, and then we'll go from there. That's great Thank you all for your time. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you neighbor Thank you neighbor. Thank you. Yeah Take care. Thank you. Good evening We have one other item on agenda And i'll call it right now. It's the approval of minutes of august 2nd 2022 and um I submitted comments on those minutes and and others have I can't apologize. You have some comments on that I may have but I think she submit then submitted a revised version, right? Correct. I only in the only in the findings. Yeah, she she incorporated the comments into the findings But the minutes need to still be corrected Um I can tell you what I understood from comments if you like I know that would be appreciated um Buildings is is five not three. Yeah, that was mentioned in a couple of places. Yeah, correct. Um, and then I added the uh Size of the two buildings that were on the ends there. Thank you. Um With the dimensions and then I read numbered the exhibits so they made more sense Okay. Yeah, that was my concern and then um polly I think it was your comment where I added the access to the lower units was from but the phone Yep, um, that's all I really Recall as far as the minutes go Yeah, I that's it I don't have my email to you, but I also mentioned the lights on the uh, this is under section um 3205 that the lights on the building are Motion uh, activated I do think you included that in the findings Okay They're motion activated lights Do you want that in the minutes as well? Uh, yes lights on the building are motion activated Okay so, um I'll make the motion to approve the minutes subject to those amendments I'll second Discussion Hearing none all those in favor of that motion, please say goodbye by saying aye. Aye Aye Opposed sorry. I I was muted We saw your lips moving Um, so Uh, we we wrote it. We have four eyes. Uh, we're good All right, uh Does anybody want to go into a little procession on the matter we heard before the board tonight? Yeah Pardon I guess. I mean, I don't know what we have to discuss. It seems pretty straightforward Yeah, I I don't feel that we have to but if anybody wants to go into a little procession, please just say so We take action here outside of delivery session Pardon, will you take any action outside of delivery session? Um, you know what let's let's go into a little procession because it it facilitates our process of um, editing uh findings So, um, I'll make the motion go into a little procession second most been made seconded Uh discussion that motion Is sad thinking by going into a little procession that we can continue the new recession outside of the open hearing and and come up with uh Findings that we're all support 7 28 p.m. Yeah 7 28 p.m Do we have a motion on it? We have more on that motion. I don't know. All the things that motion please say by saying aye. Aye Aye I need to And we are in the loop session. I need to close everybody off I'll do an obsession at um 750 7 50 55 30 more and 750 750. Oh, yeah, that's being stupid We need to fix that clock you we fix it and it just Goes right back to not being fixed. Okay Okay, I would intend a motion to adjourn before we determine just I was gonna wait till the We had the results of tonight's meeting there. So the next meeting of the drb two weeks now is cancelled so That is the 20th, right 14. Yeah the 20th of september that meeting is cancelled Okay That's all i have mr. Chair as well as we don't bring in in october This is i know Okay, now i'll add the motion to adjourn so It's been made by two words seconded by folly. Okay All those things that motion please signify by saying aye. Hi. Hi Hi, and you're adjourned. Thank you all very much. Thank you all Good night garland. Good night garland