 Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining. I'm Kellen Betz, a course lead here at MIT CTL for the MITX MicroMasters Program and Supply Chain Management. I'm co-hosting this live event today with my colleague, Laura Aleya, also a course lead in the MicroMasters Program. Today we're very fortunate to have Mr. Dennis Lete, Chief Financial Officer of Bertelsman Printing Group. Welcome Dennis. Hey guys, welcome. Thank you for inviting me to join. Awesome. So before we get started today, you know we like to make these interactive with Q&A, live Q&A and polls. And so if we could launch our first poll here, we want to learn why you're here today, why you're joining us and what you're hoping to get out of the event today. A few of the options to learn about the impact of supply chain decisions to finance, to learn about supply chain finance in general. You know, there's a few options there if you could take a minute there to complete our poll. And while you do that, my colleague, Laura, will go through the agenda for today. Thank you Kellen and welcome Dennis. You're all free to open your camera any time you want. So everyone in the audience for the next 30 minutes, Dennis will present and we will all discuss then why speaking the language of finance matters, how SEM professionals can partner with finance to either get buy-in for new projects or get into the conversation on how to improve our supply chains and overall how to better communicate with finance stakeholders. In the last 15 minutes, we will have this time for you. It will be safe for you. So please use the webinar Q&A feature to ask your questions. Do not put them on the chat because we will not go there just on the Q&A feature and be sure to be logged in with a name because we usually do not read anonymous questions. Of course, be prepared to answer our polls and have this being an interactive session. So let's first check in that poll. Hopefully, yeah, most of you have answered the poll so we can end it now and share the results with everyone. We want to make sure that you are here with the right expectations and that we also share those expectations with Dennis here today. So Dennis, most people here is just to learn about the impact of supply chain decisions in finance. Also, most of them are about finance in general, so probably they are very interested in your background and to know more about the language of more executives. So how do you see that, Dennis? Do you think we're going to cover all of those? Yes, I hope so. I'm so excited to have this discussion with you guys. It's really nice to be here, try to share a bit of my experience with you, and I hope that we can have a very good discussion. Awesome. So let's start things off. To start it, let's get to know a little bit of our speaker. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background, how you started your current role, and your journey to get where you are today? Sure, sure. Well, I'm a finance profession, of course, that's more than 30 years of experience. I do not like to say that so much because it's making a bit older, but that's the life, right? There's no way to change that. So I'm from Brazil. I start working, I have moved from many different businesses, but the most important one in my career is the energy business. I started to work for Alston in Brazil. Alston is a French company, a big French company. And after that, I moved around a few other segments like mining, like automation, and now I'm working for Better's Man Group. It's a medium company. It's a German medium company. I joined four months ago. I'm really enjoying a lot to be part of this new world that for me is completely new. And as my background, I'm a bachelor in economics, and I did two MBAs in the University of OUSP in economics and finance. And I work around the South America mainly, and now the last five years I moved to the West as an American CFO for LM Wind Power, a GE company. And now I'm here just trying the new experience in the new segment. Let's see if in the future I can learn a bit more and teach a bit more about my new experience. Awesome. Well, thank you, Dennis. You did have a background that we're very excited to learn from your experiences and have the discussion today. Maybe before we jump into your presentation, now you have a brief presentation for us, but before we jump into that presentation, if you could just start out with a quick question, something that's on our mind, we'd like to start by asking the question of why finance matters. This is something we talked about earlier, but why finance matters in a supply chain role. I think many of our audience here is from different supply chain roles or in our MicroMasters program. In our previous conversations, you shared that it's not actually speaking the language of people in finance, but it's actually speaking the language of the executives and the board of executives and board of directors. So maybe if you could share a little bit more about that, why finance matters in a supply chain role. Sure. Of course, that if a good finance, if I say that finance does not matter, of course, that the numbers at the end means a lot. But I would say that this is more or less the old fashioned the way when we look for a project. Because project, of course, if you present a project that financially speaking, economically speaking, does not make sense, this will not approve. But what I'd like to highlight here is that project is a that you need to be aligned with the strategy of the company. If you are not aligned with the strategy of the company, of course, these will not be approved. Sometimes you have a project that economically speaking make a lot of sense, but that's not aligned. I saw a lot of projects, very good projects that was not aligned strategy that at the end was never approved, was never approved. They had sometimes a very good economic return. But at the end, this does not make any sense to the company. Let's try to make a simple example here. You want to be the number one producer in your business, but you have as a main or a core to be zero emission of CO2. Let's just take this one simple example. And then someone presents a project that's economically speaking make a lot of sense, but it's not connect with your strategy. So at the end, this will not be approved. This is wasting time for everyone. You need to understand what is your strategy. This, for me, is the key before you start any project. And it does not matter if you are talking about surprising projects or if you are talking about any project that you want to care, you want to present, you need to make sure that you are aligned. Thank you, Denise. And I really like what you presented because you bring it from the experience. We sometimes share this in a more academic perspective, but we usually talk about supply chain as one of the many enalers of the company strategy. So if our strategy is not aligned, as you just said, it's not only that you're not getting the buy-in, but it's not going to be a successful management of your supply chain. So thank you for bringing that from the industry perspective. And then talking a little bit more about the project as you just started bringing to the table. One of the many reasons we know we connect with the executive is to get that buy-in off a new project. And for us in the supply chain could be for incorporating a new facility, buying a new asset, achieving a better agreement with our suppliers for additional or different inventory availability based on our needs. So we would love to know, and I know you have the presentation on the topic, how to proceed to earn the internal support, how to get or what tips do you have to better communicate with executives and make those projects go through and become a successful or achieve a successful outcome. Okay. Again, it's more or less what I have just said, right? You have to make sure that you know what is expected from your project. If you understand well what you need to deliver of course that makes much more ease when you go in front of the board and try to present them the projects, right? Of course that for sure you receive a lot of questions, thousands of questions about the projects they want to see. The board in general they are, I would say that they try to take minimum of risk possible. And by the way maybe risk is one of the words that you will hear more from me now during this 45 minutes, one hour, because this is really a matter of management of risk for me. Any project that you have to make sure. Because things happens, right? And you have to be prepared to, you have to present mitigation plan. You have to have plan B. You have to understand that the word is not like we would like to be. There are a lot of things that happens in the middle that you have to have a plan to mitigate that. For me this is the key. When we are in front of the board, you have to show them that you are the owner of the project. You understand what could happen in your project and you have a way to mitigate that. Of course that sometimes you will not mitigate, but at least you show that you have a plan. This for me is key. Okay, in projects, usually we have five phases, right? That you have to care about all of the phase. You have to make sure that we are, you are the owner of each phase. You understand your project and very well how to deal with any problem that could happen in this of your project. So of course, that the overview phase is where you define your goals. You create the business case and you move forward your planning. You have to make sure that you have everything that you need for this project. We are well-organized execution that this must complicate to one, but it's not the only one that you have to care. Secure should have to have a located the right resources in the project. And of course you have to understand you have to monitoring your project. You have to understand if you are moving the direction that you expect and the comprehension, right? The comprehension is to revise the results, make sure that you deliver what was asked. This is the only theory, as I said, is just to guide us in the discussion. In this slide that I guess is where we have to to expand a bit more time. I understand that in each phase you have to care about few items, few things that is really important for the board or for the company, right? Sometimes we say finance, sometimes we say board, but at the end is the health of the company. We have to make sure that the projects are delivering what was agreed and what is expected. Let's talk about the overview. Again, projects need to be aligned with the business strategy. You need to convince the board that your approach makes sense if it's aligned with the strategy. After that, of course, that you need to bring data. You need to make sure that you have the right best data and then this will guide you for the future that you are looking for. This is the stage where the approach is to be approved or not. So show your arguments and try to make sure that everyone understands what you want to do, right? And of course, you have to have your budget. You have to have how much this will cost, the cash flow, the contingence, the timeline, the resources that you need for the sproaches. Again, the risk involved in the sproaches and how you want to overpass each of them. Okay. So in the planning phase, you need to make sure that you have a very good scope. You define very well your scope. One thing that for me is very important to you. Make sure that you have a doable timeline. I saw a lot of broads that sometimes you want to be fast, but most of the time fast, of course, that's important. But it's not the only thing that you have to look for. It's better for you to spend a bit more time doing it and make sure that you execute that in the time that you promised them later. You say, okay, you have to move to months or you have to move or you have to move a few other months because we had this kind of problem. This is not one thing that the board likes to hear. They can understand that you cannot manage 100% of the things, but there are a few things that you can try to make sure that you deliver in the time you expect. So be careful about the time that you promise to deliver your project. And one thing that this is a bit what you intense is to try to deliver something that's perfect, right? Sometimes the perfection is really good, but sometimes it's not required. What you have to deliver is what was asked. So look for quick wins. These keep the motivation of the team. And this helps a lot in order to get engagement from the team and the board and see that, oh, the results start to come. And this is really, really important as well to everyone. So during the execution, one thing that's the space, everybody says that you have to have the right people more. This is really important. But I can assure that most of the projects forget to care about this point. This is really sometimes you overestimate your team capability. Sometimes you think, okay, this is, I need someone that's specialist in a different type of business. You are trying, you are planning to move for a different product. And you do not know about the product and say, okay, but it's more or less the same that what we have now. Most of the time, that's not true. You have to find the right resource. There are some particulars in each project that you have to make sure that you understand very well. Don't overestimate team capability. This is really, I saw a lot of projects fail during this phase. And again, define a clear mitigation plan. Since happens, you need to have money because for sure you have, I never, I do not remit a project that went as planned. And you have to make sure that you have a right plan to mitigate that, right? When you go for monitoring, of course, that you have to deliver the bus. Sad, you have to deliver the bus. So you have to make sure that you report any big deviation in the right moment. One thing that I thought a lot, and this is one thing that you have to avoid. Sometimes we do not like to give bad news. We try to avoid bad news. And do we think that we can solve the problem in the middle of the course of the project? And the trial, okay, this happens. This, let's say that it's time. You delay two months or you'll cost a bit more. But I believe I can solve that. I do not need to report. Why are you bringing this to the board? They will be so upset. And these will not work well. I will solve that. If you solve good, no one knew about that. And then, but if you do not solve, you'll be worse. It will be worse because you have to report that you knew the problem since months ago. You will skip, you will skip to report that. And now you have to say, and there is no reaction most of the time. So bad news happens. Report in the right time. Do not procrastinate reporting. You need to tell to the board. Of course I'm as well like only to give good news. Sometimes not possible. And the completion, right? The completion is, you have to make sure that to deliver what was asked. Sometimes you deliver part and that's not 100% what was asked. But you need to be clear, okay, we could deliver half. The other part was not possible because this happens or it was not like we managed it when we start the project. Again, we have to come back to the phase. You have to define what needs to be delivered and the completion phase, you have to make sure that to deliver what was asked for, right? And the other big things is lessons learned. Because for sure in the future we have some similar project. They do not need to reinvent the wheel. They need to learn with the mistakes of the first project and try to move from there. This is how the process moves and how you get material in the organization with the learns. You have to share what you learn. And of course, for me, most of the projects never ends. The project is one thing that you keep going, keep going, keep going. You have to define your KPIs. You have to make sure that you have the right KPIs. Sometimes you are using wrong KPIs and you are taking wrong decisions. Make sure that you make cross-reference about KPIs. Sometimes you have just one KPIs and you say, okay, this is showing that this trend into the direction that I want. But when you cross-reference with the different KPIs and you see that this, because sometimes not the right one that you are using. This is what I think. And when you are approved for your project, you go to the board, you approve your project and then this is only the start. This is only the start of the nightmare because the project is still to go. You have to show up every month, every week, depending on the frequency that you have defined and show how it's going. Because this is the most important part. Get the approval. It's only theory. In the first moment you are in the theory. You are showing a lot of excels. You are showing a lot of data, a lot of PowerPoints. Beautiful. You do PowerPoint like art, a lot of arts in PowerPoint and get approved. But the project is not there. The project is coming. Make sure you keep the board update about how the project is moving. So the last slide. This is my two cents here. What I think that we should care about doing the project. First for me and the most important or one of the most important, make sure you understand what is expected from your project. Because this is key. If you do not understand what is expected, you're not delivered the right project. So if it's not 100% clear, ask. Ask again. Because you need to understand very well what means your project. What means, again, the strategy. If your project is aligned with the strategy. Sometimes we're talking about the board. But sometimes, of course, that there are many different layers in the organization. So your manager asks you a project. You have to develop something like that. Ask questions. Ask if it is aligned with the strategy. Because you are wasting your time. You are wasting money of the company. And you have to avoid that. The second one that I will say, you have to make sure you have the data to show. And you have to show that on top of your guess, you know as well the information. You have the information. So bring that. Create scenarios. Show your commitment on the project. The board likes to see that you are engaging your energy in the project. Again, remember, garbage in garbage out, right? Make sure that you have the right resources, tools and people in this project. Do not overestimate capabilities. You need to have some time. A lot of people's work in the same sense to make sure that the project should be your achieved result that you expect. And again, do not underestimate the risks. I can assure you that balance happens, risk happens. So have your data. Make your scenarios. Make sure that you have mitigation plan because this is really, really, really important for you during the project. So to be really, to make a summary here, I hope that I have covered all the points. I know that probably you have a few questions for debate a bit more about any talk. And when I talk just the last word about that is when we talk about project, it does not matter if you are talking about soup supply chain project or any other type of project. At the end it's the same, right? Project is one objective that you have, one objective that you will have to deliver such results. And we have all the path to go there. Make sure you are really well-organized to deliver what is asked. Okay? Awesome. Thank you, Dennis. I appreciate your presentation for sure. One of the things that really resonates with me is the idea of keeping the board or your stakeholders kind of up to date. And sometimes that involves sharing bad news. And I think for many of us at least, maybe a natural hesitation to want to share bad news, but sometimes it's better to share bad news and to avoid it. And then to have that bad news come out later when things are probably worse to resonate with me for sure. No one's like to share bad news, right? Managed you are the leader of the project. And for some reason, you forgot to consider some variable or something happens. And you try to avoid to go to the board and say that, right? This is a big mistake. It's a big mistake. Don't do that. Don't do that. Feel of the time you can solve the problem by yourself and do not have to report. Great. But you are assuming risk, big risk. Because when you go to the board, most of the time you do not have any reaction. Yeah, that's a good tip for sure. Awesome. And I also want to maybe give a reminder to our audience. We'll have time for Q&A at the end. And so definitely start thinking of those questions if you have any for Dennis. And please put those in that Q&A feature. And we'll take a look at that as well here in just a few minutes. Before we get to that, maybe you want to kind of jump in or kind of dive into one of the topics or one of the concepts you mentioned in your presentation there on timelines. I think that also kind of resonated with me as well. So you mentioned project timelines. I know there's also operational timelines. There's many different perspectives on timelines really. Sometimes, especially with public companies, we often hear about the financial quarterly timeline or quarterly report or quarterly performance. Definitely with public companies. It seems to be a cadence with finance to a certain degree. And then in supply chain, we might have different cadences. So it might be day-to-day trying to get customer shipments out the door before cutoff or it's the project timeline where we're thinking from a network perspective when we need to add a warehouse or remove a warehouse from our network. I'm wondering if maybe you could just expand on this idea of the different perspectives on timeline from the board's perspective, from finance perspective, and from the supply chain kind of operator on the ground perspective and how maybe those different perspectives can gain a little bit better alignment or maybe ways to approach that conversation around timelines, project timelines, and operational timelines. Yeah, sure. Of course, that I said that the risk is one of the most important part in the project. But of course, that the timeline is the timeframe that you define in your projects is also very important. You'll have to look for any project like a chain. There are many other decisions that will be or is being taken based on your project. Let's talk about supply chain. Let's take up the basics of your life. You are developing a new chain of how material, where we are exploring new opportunities and then we are saying to the board or to anyone that you bring some savings or you reduce the inventory cycle or you do whatever it's important to the company. You'll have to understand that based on your project there are many other decisions that is about to be taken. The production, of course, will change their schedule based on what we are saying that you deliver. The prices will be revised based what you said. If you reduce the cost, the price probably will be revised. The market sometimes so you need prices is really important. There are many decisions that have been planned based on your timeline. Just manage so that everyone is expecting to get their results based on your projects. Then you'll not deliver the project in the timeline expected. You'll have to tell them, okay, you are planning to lower your price. Okay, wait a bit, wait a bit because I'm not delivering what I promised to you in the time that I said. Or if you cannot wait because the market is so tight, okay, you have to understand that you make some losses during a period until I deliver the project. Do you see why it's important to make sure that you deliver what you promised during the expect? Sometime I trend, I know that may be fine. It's more or less like that. I try to not be, but sometimes I am as well. I try to have some umbrellas in my timeline. I prefer to deliver everything that I promised in the time that I said, then to have a lot of slippage in the project. So I cannot deliver any more. I have one month more. I have because I know that there are many other decisions that's been taken base what I promised. This is what I believe from the timeline. This, for me, is one thing that you cannot move timeline. So you cannot move in any way you cannot because there are many other decisions following what you promise. Thank you, Dennis. And before jumping on another question I had in my mind, I wanted to connect timeline with also we talk a lot about the value of time when we are talking about money. So a difference in timelines, what kind of impacts can that bring to our project? Not only in terms of deliverables or in the commitment or in the conversation, but in global supply chains could be an impact on a currency exchange fluctuation or it could be an inflation rate at some point in some places in the world. It could be about an extra cost of holding inventories. So do you have any other thoughts on the impact of time from that perspective? Yeah, yeah. Well, when we are doing business now globally, you have to understand that many factors that can happen, you have to try to mitigate, you have to try to work again to mitigate risks, to mitigate any problem. We know that there are many differences. When you go, for example, if we talk about one to buy some material from a different country, that's not only a matter of price. You have to understand how the country, how works the politics in the country, the currency, as you said, currency, you can try to make some finance arrangements, do some hedging, do some kind of operation that can try to offset the risks. But at the end, it's not only a matter of finance. Finance is one part of the problem that most of the time you can understand, you can try to make your decisions. But there are politics as well. There are some port conditions sometimes if you are talking overseas, some material overseas, you have some these times in the ports, you have to expect some delays and sometimes you need that material in the plant. So you have to balance. You are proposing that you can bring a lot of savings to the company. But in the same time, you have to understand that sometimes this is like the investments, right? If you want to get more money, you have as well to understand that you have more risk, right? In the business, it's the same. If you want to bring some savings, be careful about the risks that you are bringing together, right? This is really important for any business that you do with other countries who have to understand very well how works the politics, the finance, the economics and try to mitigate risks again. Right. So in terms of, I love the fact that you brought risk mitigation a lot of times. So I bet there's a lot to talk about that. And hopefully there are a lot of questions from the audience on that too, because there's a lot to cover there. And thanks for bringing all the layers of complexity as we go on. This is not, as you said, just about one goal or one decision, but the impact that can have in all the stakeholders, the impact that all external stakeholders will have on us, including as you say, regulation. So thank you for bringing that piece to the conversation. I would like to give back to the presentation again in terms of KPIs, because you said something that is real, that is first, not all projects go as expected or most won't go as expected at the first time. And then you also said this doesn't end when it's delivered or when you think you have your first outcomes. So I think there's also some conversation on the audience going on on the KPIs. How do we understand which are relevant KPIs for a project or for any piece of work we're doing? How to understand when a metric is relevant enough just to allocate resources, collect data, monitor outcomes, take actions. And when is it that we need to say, okay, this is not, I'm not measuring the right thing, I should move on to something else. And if you know about any, if you want to share based on your experience about any of those KPIs, where supply chain has a little bit more interaction, that would be great. Okay, okay. Well, for me, the KPIs, of course, that can guide you to the heaven or to the hell, right? You have to make sure that you really define the right KPIs. Like sometimes one thing that I always do, I don't believe in just one KPIs. I just try to do cross-heverance. I can try to make one simple example. Let's talk about DPO, right? Days, payments, outstanding, right? You have the goal to increase your DPO, right? And you say to the organization, okay, we had 100 days of DPO, and now we are at 110. And we start to monitor that. And you'll see that you are moving 100, 102, 105, 110. And then we are moving, we are keeping 110, and then you show, we bet. This is, we deliver what we promise. Good. That's good. You really deliver. But, and then I look for the cost of how much you're for per ton produced. And I see that the cost of how much you per ton produce is double. That's easy. To increase the DPO, say that you pay more, that's really easy. Really easy to do that, right? You can say, okay, I'll pay you 5% more, but you give me 3 days more to pay. That's what, what are you the value that you are adding to the company? There's nothing. This is just one example. You need to cross reference KPIs. One KPI does not work alone. Never, never. Few cases that you can look at KPI and say, okay, you are doing good, or oh, we are doing bad. You have to do cross reference. This is what I mean, right? One example for, for you guys. I know that sometimes in the company, there are a lot of conflict between cash and cost. And, and most of the time, they not move in the same direction. They move in a different direction. If you want to improve your cash cost, or to make lower your cost, sometimes you have to give some benefit to the supplier. Pay you in advance. If I pay you 2 more, how much of discount you can give me? Okay, you have better cost, but you have worse cash. And sometimes you can say, I want to improve my cash. Okay, I want to move later, 3 days later. Okay, but I have a price for that. I cannot, I cannot make it happen. This is a kind of balance. You have to find what's really matters for you. Again, come back to the beginning of our discussion, understand the strategy of the company. This changes, this changes. This is not one question that you asked today. And then, okay, now I know the strategy tomorrow maybe is different. The marks move, do not believe in just one KPI. Try to make cross reference, try to make, you need to, you need to have your critical evaluation about the KPIs that you are using. If this makes sense or not, if you need to have a different one to help you to understand the context, try to do that. Do not say just, I'm doing good or bad because of one KPI. Make cross reference. Awesome. Well, thank you. I appreciate your insights on the balance, if you will, of the KPIs. Make sure they're cross referenced and aligned. Really, the take home message is just aligning with that company strategy and knowing your company strategy and your company value proposition and aligning all the way down to the detailed KPIs that you're using to manage performance. That's awesome. Well, maybe this is one last question. Before we get to the audience Q&A, I know we have many of our audience here today in our MicroMasters program. Maybe they're kind of in a career transition or perhaps just starting their career in supply chain. That's why maybe they're taking these courses. This probably is a daunting step I know for many when you're in a transition like that or when you're starting out a new venture like that. So I wonder if you could just share just any general advice from your experience, Dennis, in your career, where they should start, where they can kind of build on their experiences in these courses and push their career forward or push this transition forward. This is for me the first thing that for me for this is not only for projects, right? This is forever thing you have to have passion. What you have to have passion is the base, the start point, right? There is no right and wrong in projects. You have to understand that if exist one book that shows you how to guide the project, please tell me what this book is because I will buy one because I need you more than 30 years in the market of experience. So that that shows you everything that you need to learn for a project. And you have to understand, for me, it's a matter of critical thinking. You have to understand the project. Again, we are back. You have to have sense of urgency. You need to understand that there are a lot of people waiting for the results of your projects and enjoy. Enjoy what you are doing because it's really important. If you are doing something that you don't like, it's a big mistake. It's a big mistake. Enjoy. This is really what matters in the project. You have to enjoy everything that you do because doing things that do not like the result is wasting time again. Yes, thank you, Dennis. And of course being passionate about what we're doing is a great resource to be fully committed to it and get more and more resources to work with it. So I want to bring one question from Thomas Gibson. They are interested in learning about how is your experience with ERP projects, ERP integration, data management, how do you see communication and data being playing a role in between supply chain decisions and finance results? Right. So I had opportunities to join a few integrations, a few implementations of ERP and for me, if you look at SAP, we can talk about SAP or we can talk about Oracle, any other ERP. For me, at the end, it's the same. Of course, there are different functionalities. You can work better in one or another. Few of them is better for production. Few of them is better for finance. But at the end is ERP. They will deliver what you want or what you expect they deliver. But in the implementation, it's really important you make sure that you define what you want from the data. Because again, if you do not spend time defining what's really important for you, we will not have the right results. You take wrong decisions. For me, the ideal word that I never saw as well is the word where you take 20% of your time extracting data, getting data, and 80% analyzing and taking decisions. I almost see the other way around, right? 80% of your time you are extracting data. You are checking data. You are making sure that the data is 20% you are analyzing the data. That's wrong. But most of the company works like that. So when we are doing any kind of implementation, make sure what type of company you are and what really matters for you. For example, I can tell you the example of mining company that they work. Using the mining, it's not in the big cities. It's far away, right? And the cost of the product is so low. What matters for you is logistic, right? Logistic is really important for you because the cost of the product is low, but logistic is a big cost. Sometimes it's two, three times more than the cost of the product. So if you are doing some implementation, you have to take this in consideration. What's the most important for you? Logistic is important. So if it's important, how can I be strong to evaluate logistic for this case, right? You have to make sure that you are implementing what you use in the future. Awesome. Thank you, Dennis. Just like the general concept of garbage and garbage out definitely resonates with me and my experience and also your balance of the 80-20 balance. I definitely have that experience of spending 80% of my time cleaning data and trying to find the data in the first place. You are not the only one. Everybody does that. Yeah, definitely. Maybe 5% of the time I actually can start analyzing it. So that definitely resonates with me for sure. Awesome. I know we have a few minutes left here. So I want to pull one more question from our audience. We have time for one or two more questions. And one of our questions here from Arvid is a question about a process. You spoke earlier about this idea of balance and then also aligning your project strategy, if you will, your project goals and timelines with company strategy and company value proposition. I know one of the processes in these supply chain professionals might be engaged in this approach to this idea of this synergy or this way of alignment is sales and operations planning. I'm wondering if you maybe could share any experience you have with sales and operations planning in the way that this is a little bit different from finance. The balance of finance and supply chain is more of a balance from the revenue generating side or the sales side and the operations side and delivering on that. But I wonder if you have any experience in how maybe supply chain and finance plugs into this process of sales and operations planning. Yeah. Yeah. This is, I can try to mention a fresh example in my career where we are really, we are trying to reduce our stocks, right? And we define a minimum in stocks. And then this is really, it was, I can tell you that it was, it was really important to generate cash to make sure that we, we are delivering the cash that was expecting the company. But again, there are some risks behind, right? There are some risks behind because we are defined minimum stocks. You have to understand that you have stocks for two or three days of production depending on the items that we are producing. And you have to be really aligned with the sales department, sales commerce. For example, what we face in the company is that we discover that the planning was not the same with the supply chain, right? It means that the demand that was being showed to the supply chain was not exactly what we were saying to the market. What happens? We had big issues like that cost some time or not have enough stocks to attend the market or vice versa. We had a lot of stocks. We are saying we have minimum stocks for three days, but in fact it was for three months or something like that. This for me is really crucial that you align exactly what is in the commercial versus what you are saying to the supply chain finance. Because sometime the problem will be to the company. The company will face the problem because we are not deliver or have access to stocks. And most of the time they look at the supply chain, the supply chain team, right? What did you do? Why did you put a lot of material in the plan to not need that or vice versa? We are missing material. What we can do and then we will pay our freight or you pay double the cost of the freight. So you need to align all the costs. You need to sit together and understand that you have again the right data. You have the right system and you deliver exactly what it's need by the plan, right? I will not talk about pandemic because it was crazy what happened, right? Minimum stock in pandemic gave us totally different or totally impossible to manage. But in the normal course of business, you need to make sure that you have the right data. Again, if you look at the work out about that you discussed during the presentation, like data, time, timeline, the right people because there are some times you look to the there's some information that you look in the screen. Ah, okay. You say, oh, X thousand units in the month. But if you look the past data, you say that quantity takes four months. And then you have to ask why you are saying that you you say that in just one month, if I took four months in the past to do that. Oh, maybe the answer is there. Okay, we are growing. We have more lines. But you have to ask that that is there. But is it correct or not? Okay, so I hope that everyone tries to do that because this will make the life much easier and avoid some noise. No one wants to have noise in the line, right? Thank you, Dennis, for that. And I, in the interest of time, probably this is the last question from the audience I want to take. But this is more from a managerial perspective, and asking you as a CFO. So we have a very diverse audience here today from different backgrounds and different levels of their career path. Probably some of them have never had a chance to sit in front of a CFO and have a conversation or present anything to them. So we have a couple of questions from Ferris and Chase asking when I sit on the table as a supply chain or could be in any of the positions that get to sit on the table with you. Is it really important to understand a return of investment and cash flow to come with those days of outstanding inventory? As you said, how does it make a difference to know the language, to use the same terms? Because usually for us it's mostly about cost when we work on supply chain and we analyze different tradeoffs in cost level service, but that's where we stay. But when we get to sit with you in that conversation, how can we impress you? That's pretty much the question we're getting here in the audience. Yeah. First of all, don't be shy, right? We are, we are just a different person. We are just having a different opportunity, more experience, more times, and this is the only difference. I'm sure that when I look for young guys doing any, any cost supply chain or finance, the first thing that I think is this guy with my experience, you'll be better than me. Yes, he'll be. Okay, that's good. This is the guy that I like to talk to because I know that this is only a matter of time, right? I have most years more of experience. It's normal that I face situations that maybe this guy is facing right now. This is the first thing. Don't be shy. Don't be afraid to share your concerns. And of course, if you know return of investment, if you know cash flow management, if you know any other finance information to help in the discussion, but that's not necessary. What you need to show is energy. You need to show that you are really on top of what you are talking to. This is really important. You transmit this kind of commitment, engagement, and try to make simple. Try to make things simple. This is really important. Do not try to complicate so much. Do not try to deliver what is very difficult. That sometimes that someone says to you, I want to go to the moon. Okay, I want to go as well. But what's the tool that I have? You have one bike to go there. You'll never be there, right? Bike to the moon. And you have to realize that you need to be simple. Don't promise what you cannot deliver. Sometimes you will not deliver what you promise, but never promise one thing that you are unsure that you will not deliver. Try to be simple. Try to be transparent. And do not be shy. Just ask. Just ask. Awesome. Thank you, Dennis. You know, going to the moon on a bicycle might be challenging, but the idea of making things simple and maybe also kind of resonates with the idea you shared earlier about quick wins, kind of start incrementally and be reasonable about your goals and what you can deliver. That's a great message. Awesome. Well, I know we're kind of reaching the end of our discussion here today. I definitely appreciate the opportunity to speak with you, Dennis. I want to thank you for your time and sharing your insights and your experience with us today. It's been a pleasure to have this discussion. Thank you very much. It was really a big pleasure for me to join the team. I hope that I had some insights to the team. I hope to help everyone to take better decisions in the future. And, Laura, you can share my link in my email. I will be more than happy to answer additional questions. Feel free to reach me out whatever you want. Thank you. Thank you, Dennis, for that. And just sharing here the poll results so that everyone can see it. Are the takeaways what they found more interesting of today's event? So understanding how to better communicate, I think that was the key of the event and everyone also received that. But it's also pretty close to expanding the knowledge in supply chain finance and understanding about specific applications in the projects. So hopefully we fulfill everyone expectation here. And we hope to see everyone joining us in our upcoming webinar, the last of the season. Just stay tuned. And feel free to connect with us, Kela and me or Dennis, any time if you have any further questions in this topic. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Bye. Thank you, everyone. Bye-bye.