 So, hi everyone, good afternoon. Clearly the paper in my hand states that I'm the moderator for this session. I'm really excited to be hosting such a diverse panel. We have only nine of us, that's half the audience on the podium today. But I think the topic that we're discussing is something which is very, very relevant. It plays a very key role in ensuring that your businesses have flourished and they deliver success in the ever-changing times. We're going to be discussing about adoption of agile marketing. They need for a mindset shift. And before I start the discussion, I want to understand, how many of us in this room today remember what the Zuzu ad was, or the Jagore ad, or which brand it belonged to? Anyone? Vodafone, correct. So I think what's brilliant is even after so many years, these ads stayed relevant to us. And who knew back then, we did not label it as agile marketing. But according to me, it's a fantastic example of agile marketing, simply because it speaks about reaching out to the right audiences at the right time. If we talk about the Jagore ad campaign, it was during the election season. Zuzu hit the chord with cricket. And they created a differentiator by striking a chord with emotions with their end users, right? To me, this is what agile marketing is all about. So keeping this in mind and the ever-changing landscape, I'll move and I'll start the session by asking each of y'all, what, according to you, does agile marketing stand for? And more importantly, how is it different from traditional marketing? Maybe you want to start? So I think the biggest challenge is not only the mindset, right? The thing is that most brands know what the customer does with them in terms of transactions. But there are no platforms that give you real time insights of what the consumer is thinking. So let's say one of our things in the platform was that we identify trends. AI tells you why it's tending and how you can link your brand to it. But the thing is that most people know that transactions, but they don't know what cuisine they prefer or what they like, why not beer? They like comedy as a genre, action as a genre. So if somebody could create something which is real time, that helps as a base for all kind of decisions you take on media buying or creative strategy or content creation and selection. So I think the biggest challenge is data on a real time basis to take these decisions. If we can solve that problem, then agile marketing can be better. Isha, you want to take it? I'll take in the cue from the real time piece that you talked about. And for me, when we do agile marketing, it's all about responsive marketing. Yes, real time, yes, very nimble. But more importantly, I feel it requires a mindset shift. Agile marketing I also feel is almost like an organizational structural change where you have to completely pivot yourself from the traditional cues to the modern cues. It's so much about consumer interactions and what they think over your documents and plans because you're re-gearing, you're re-shifting. It's also so much about acting on the change and sticking to a plan and details. So for me, agile marketing is so pivotal, which requires so much of buying across the organization, otherwise it's a failure, right? So that's for me on agile. So I'm a bit old school, okay? I think the role of marketing for me is to be able to add value to the consumers and customers that we work for, period, agile or not agile. I think for me, what agile really does is to be able to answer and be relatable and addressable to those needs quickly and faster. Also because the consumer needs are changing and evolving more and more with digital and more information. It also for me as Castrol, for example, means when COVID strikes and nobody's taking their bike and car out, how does an engine oil brand still remain relevant and I'll probably talk about it later. So that's really for me agile, customer consumer centricity at a much faster speed than what it used to be traditionally. So it's safe to say our consumer mindset first, then the platform or the channel? Yes, consumer first at everything we do. Nikhil. I think e-commerce brands and the young age D2C brands are built on the principles of agile. So I'll just quote an example specifically to our category. So lingerie used to be sold in stores by retailers and they used to stock in two or three sizes or fits. So it used to be more of a push model than a pull model. So we, to solve that problem and to address that issue, we started production in small back sizes of say 500, 600 units and catering to various sizes, fits, colors, and varieties. Then based on the customer feedback, the iterative product process took place and then we refined our product category. So the premise of our business has been agility and that's how we have, we are functional. Sapna, what do you? You know, we are storytellers, so I'm going to start with a small story. When I started my career some 20 years back, I came from an events background and I shifted to marketing. My then marketing had told me, you know, you have to do this campaign and I didn't know how to do marketing. So I asked her, I said, what do I do? She said, go figure. That was traditional marketing where I started figuring what to do. And agile marketing is where I'm still figuring. Yeah, because as agile marketer, I need to keep figuring what my consumer wants, where he is, and chase him, speak to him wherever, whatever he wants, and still be connected to him. So yes, for me, agile marketing is keep figuring, keep experimenting, keep being in touch with your consumer wherever he is. That's such a lovely story. I think keep figuring, keep learning is something all of us should do. But for me, the difference between agile and traditional marketing is speed. I mean, all marketers keep consumers, customers at the center of what we do. But agile marketing to me is about listening to what the consumer says and giving your brand story in the way that they want to hear it. Not the way that you want to say it. And I think to Isha's point, it requires enormous empowerment. It requires organizational buy-in. Because if 10 people have to sign off on an ad brief, you're not being agile. Let's be clear about it. So I'll talk a little more about how at Mastercard we try and do this. But to me, it's about listening to the consumer and giving them what they want to hear. Hello, everybody. It's lovely to be in Mumbai. I'm Vanda. I work at Vowskin Science. And I come from Bangalore, which is the startup capital. And I think there's nothing better than a startup which embodies agility. We don't have the luxury of time. And I really love what Sapan said. Because that's what I live on a daily basis. I go figure. I've cut my teeth in legacy FMCG. And there we had the benefit of business cycles, right? Two, three decades where you learned over time. In a startup, you're figuring out your business model. Consumers are changing. Time is changing. Product is changing. In that heady mix, what do you do? And how do you get revenue is very, very important. And I think, yes, Mansi, time is the essence, the quickness of speed. And over the course, I'll give a couple of examples of how do we do and how do we grow. But I think speed is very, very important. And measurement is key. Consumers are changing. And therefore, if you have metrics in place before you start a campaign or you have a launch, and in real time, you can make changes to be able to drive that revenue, I think, then you're home. So it's all about time. It's all about measurement and understanding your consumer. Yeah, thanks. I have a slightly different take on agile marketing. Just back, I read a book which was called Fail Forward, Fail Fast, and to me, agile marketing is about failing forward and failing fast. Can you keep on creating constantly new POCs, trying it out? Does it work for my business? Does it work for my brand? If it works, institutionalize it. If it doesn't work, throw it away and move on to the next thing. To me, that is really what is agile marketing. Thank you. And I think what I take from this is that customer's key, you got to be open to change, rigid does not work fast pace, and I think most importantly, we all need to be okay with failure, keep trying, keep evolving, and measurement is very, very crucial, and if you do that, each and every stage. I think taking cue from this, my next question would be, today with multiple advertising platforms, channels, formats, it can become a challenge to adapt quickly while you want to ensure that you're staying relevant to your consumers, right? So how is having an agile marketing strategy help your respective brands overcome this challenge? I'll start with you, Mansi, from a BFSI perspective, A, do you see this challenge, and if yes, what's the strategy that Mastercard has adopted to overcome this? Sure, thanks for that, and I'd like to see one marketer who doesn't have this challenge. We are living in an incredibly cluttered world, but I think the key, and I'll just sort of take a minute to speak about Mastercard. So we are a payments brand, and we are a very behind-the-scenes payment brand, because let's face it, all of us pay every single day with whatever mode of payment. We want it to be seamless, we want it to be safe, and we want it to be efficient. Actually, the success in this is not to think about payments, because if you have to call up your bank or call up somebody, then it actually means we haven't done our job. However, the trick here also is to find out what our consumers really interested in, and we are a multinational organization, US headquartered. But I think the great thing about this company is they've listened to people like me to say, here's what works in India. And to the point that I made earlier about understanding consumers and integrating your brand into what they want, we've adopted a very India-centric festival-first strategy. So as a simple example, Rakshabandhan, all of us know it. It's a season of gifting. How do we tie up with an e-commerce player on Mastercard to bring brothers and sisters together? That's telling the brand story at a moment where people are thinking about a sibling relationship. So to your question, I think it's about first getting that consumer's insight, acting on it. Yes, you will get it wrong at times, and that's where Harish, to your point, the organization has to be willing to encourage innovation and get that none of us are Superman or Superwoman, and therefore, mistakes will be made. But then it's about getting the real insight. And once you get it, then tell it in an evocative way. Now, I know this seems a bit like motherhood, but I think that's really what it is. The insight is crucial. If you can find that differentiator, then you are absolutely fomentary. Yeah, and I think that's something that can be adopted across verticals. It doesn't limit it to just BFSI. Absolutely. Perfect, perfect. Thank you, Mansi. Would be interesting to know, Sapan, how would this play for a very different verticalized yaw, which is primarily mass entertainment? How do you see this challenge, and how do yaw strategize on overcoming this? So you know what? Television marketing has seen a paradigm shift from when I started back 20 years to now. We are a typical mass GEC brand. And we cater to across categories of audiences, right? So it's not that I have a specific TG, yeah? We are TG fans from the grass root level who lives in the heartland, to a niche person who's sitting, say, in a Hyderabad or a Bangalore or a Mumbai, right? And similarly, when our audience set is so vast, our marketing has to pan across to all those people, right? So we say that, I like to say that while we are a mass general entertainment brand, but we actually look at our consumer in a very pyramid format. So right from starting from the grass root level to the masses, to reaching out to that niche audience, we cater to all of them. And believe you me, we have to be agile enough to understand what the language the consumer wants to talk to us to. Because the way I will talk to a woman of 45 years of age sitting, say, in an Anabad will be very different from the way I will speak to somebody who is sitting in a metro and is very educated. So one will have to evaluate and see what one reaches out with, right? And the beauty about us is that I say that I come from a land of snake charmers, literally, right? Colors as Nagins and Pisachines of the world. Yeah, but the tune that we need to play to make them sway is not our tune. We have to play the tune that the consumer wants to listen to, yeah? And that tune could be very different for everybody. And I will right now put something very straightforward here that while we talk of agile marketing, a lot of people mistake it as digital marketing. Yeah, agile marketing is not digital marketing. Agile marketing is reaching to your consumer wherever he is. So, chahe meh mehle meh jaun, ya meh meta meh jaun. So, mehla to meta, that is the journey that I'm talking about. I advertise a lot in Nachandi Melas where people come with their families. I'm engaging with them on a ground level. And at the same time, I have created a metaverse for one of my shows, Dance Devane Juniors. Where I have created digital of stars of audiences, made them interact with our star cast and stuff. That's the diversity and that's the agility of agile marketing. Another thing is that as brands, we need loyalists. And how do we make loyalists is when we engage with the consumer on a very regular basis. How do you do that? You build communities. Now, building communities is also agile marketing. One way of building a community is where I have created a colors Golden Petal Club where I have created a loyalty program and I'm engaging with the woman on ground. The other way to build community is social media. Where I'm engaging with the consumer on a day to day basis. And today, I'll be very proud to say that we have somewhere over 80 million audiences who are in touch with us on our social media platforms. So that's another way of agile marketing where you are adjusting yourself to the needs of the consumer. Whether it is on ground, whether it is online, whether it is physical or digital, merging yourself into a very digital world is what agile marketing for me is. Back then when I started, there used to be influencers in small towns. You know, somebody who's an influencer, key influencer in your city, whether it is a district magistrate and all. Today, the meaning of influencers has changed. And how you interact with the consumer has become very different. Earlier, there used to be one big Bollywood star who was an influencer and people used to listen to him. Today, they are micro influencers. How do you engage with these micro influencers who are sitting amongst your audiences, amongst your consumers? And how do you make them speak your language? On that vertical, we built something known as social squad. We built our own community of influencers. We reached out to people across cities, got them on board. We make them interact with our stars. We take them on a set of our shows. And you know, they talk about us. Rather than us storm-tomming about our products, we've got these loyalists who now talk about our products and they engage with the consumer on a daily level. You know, earlier we used to do one, two, three campaigns in a month or maybe in a year or so. Today, our campaigns happen every day. Every day through different mediums, we are actually engaging with the consumer and back to agile marketing. Whether it is catching on a viral trend or you know, it is inviting a person, say earlier we used to do door knocks, right? Yeah, we used to do leaflet distribution in audiences' houses. Today, we are creating augmented reality to invite people. We created an augmented reality video with Ranveer saying where he was personally inviting you. So he, you had a video where it said, hey Mansi, I'm coming on TV tonight. Will you come and watch the show with me? I have created personalized invites. We have created anamorphic videos where, you know, the digital of ours of our artists have interacted with audiences. But that's what to me is agile marketing and we continue to do so. And like I said that what we need to do is we need to keep on unlearning every day and learn newer and newer things. And be connected with the consumer at every given point in time. So like I said that, you know, for me as a mass brand, I am reaching to Dadi, Chachi, Kaki, Nani, the two bubbly, all of them, right? But do I speak the same language to them? Do I, you know, only reach them through TV, which is the mass media reach medium? No, I will talk to you in a mailer and I will also talk to you in a digital avatar. I will talk to you through my stars and I will talk to you through micro influencers. That to me is agile marketing and I think that's the job of every market here to continuously engage with your audiences and be with them in every step of the journey. Awesome. And I think what that's quite the point that you said that for a mass entertainment brand, right from male us to augmented reality, right? You can't be picky and choosy about your platforms or the channels. But you have to focus more on your audiences and wherever they are, strike a chord with them. And if I may add a line to this, I think what's also important is wherever you're reaching out to your audiences, you have to ensure that you're measuring it constantly. What is it and how much of it is benefiting you? What's the quality of that particular space where you're reaching out to your audiences as well? Because you're going to be parking your revenues on it. I would just like to add something here. Sure. Since you've been talking about measurement, a lot of mediums that we actually deploy are not measurable. But does that mean that we stop engaging across those mediums today? Measurement of digital, it's questionable, right? The only measurable medium that you can have today is TV. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that you will only go through TV. You will have to expand the scope of your interactions. So for me, it's not about measurements so much, but it is about quality interaction with the consumer. I need to reach out to him, speak to him. Whether I can measure that eventually, it will end up giving me results. Maybe today it's not measurable, but at some point in time it will yield results. So the measurement is to me a little bit of a question mark here. Yeah, it depends again, like you said, right? Where you can, you shouldn't, where not, you don't limit your scope to it. Perfect, so I think very recently we also ran a four fundamental shift report at our company. And we realized that there has been a huge shift in the bi-pattern for shoppers in the pre-pandemic and the post-pandemic era. Of course, we all have been not just witnesses, but also victims for this increase in shift in the shopping. And an interesting number would be that actually it's highest among Indians at a whopping 74%. So what I want to understand is, Nikhil, maybe we get a scope on this from Claudia's standpoint. You guys are a relevantly new brand. I want to understand if you've seen the shift in the consumer buying pattern for your vertical. And if yes, or suddenly with this pandemic era, how did you prepare yourselves in terms of agility to ensure that your teams are well prepared for this? So I think I would like to break this into during pandemic and post-pandemic. And during pandemic, all categories shifted to online. And we saw consumers buying rampantly online because one, it was the need of the second more and more categories were available online. For Claudia, we saw exponential growth in loungewear and active wear. So because people were at home and people were trying to get healthier and also fitness was a way of life, people adopted active wear sales zoomed up. But on the contrary, the bra sales fell flat. So we saw a huge dip in the sales of bras. So accordingly, we had to adjust our working capital, deploy our production accordingly, deploy our marketing budgets from one category to the other, as per the requirement of the business. While I say this, post-pandemic also, in 2021, we saw that search of shoppers coming online. But in 2022, that search has now plateaued. So people are back to the offline stores. And maybe I think it's the pent up demand or something, but I was just going to a few days back that 93% of India is still shopping offline. So while we have always been online digital first brand, we are ramping up our offline presence now. So right now we are at 65 exclusive outlets across the country. But in the next 12 months, we want to go to 300 touch points across the country. Now here also, we are leveraging our knowledge of 140 million user data points. And how we are leveraging it, for example, I have three point of sales. They can be SIS, EBOs, within a radius of five kilometers. But I understand very well that a person in this locality is demanding a certain category of products, certain styles, certain color of products. So those three stores within a radius of five kilometers will also have different products stocked in their stores. So this is how we are leveraging data to be agile and also keep our offline presence as buy-in as our online presence. That's quite interesting. Vanda, what's your take on this? At Bow Skin Science, we are always an idea of first company. I think what we did prior to the pandemic actually kept in good stead to extract the maximum. So our agility comes from identifying trends. So what we do is we always keep an eye on search volumes. What are the ingredients which are coming up? Is it argon, is it under eye rollers, is it onion and black seed oil? So our entire range, right? Innovation is fueled with interesting formulations in great looking packaging, smelling wonderful, and they are fantabulous formulations. So we have the entire innovation funnel set up. What happened during the pandemic was that people couldn't shop. And over 80% of our sales anyways come from online channels. So what we did during this time was we really cranked up our entire marketing engine. We go to nearly 4,000 influencers on a monthly basis. So what do these guys do? Because ours are new interesting ingredients. They actually tell consumers how to use it, textures, usage, results, et cetera. And this we can directly check on how our traffic comes to our channels. So we cranked that up, we saw an increased interest, we kept on fueling our campaigns. And then we saw huge uptake of all these interesting formulations. And I think during the pandemic people were at home, they were willing to experiment. So that's the time we actually got into households. What happened post the pandemic is because sampling happened. People tried new ingredients and we are really confident about our formulations. Consumers loved it. Our intentions were all time high and people actually kept on buying it again and again. So post pandemic also we have seen our curves have not flattened and it has actually grown. And we continue fueling this in real time to be able to grow. So I think a little bit about our innovation funnel also of how we are agile is having worked in companies which take a year if not more for innovating a product where you get your entire mix, right? In a startup we are so agile, right? We have an idea, we know the formulation and we don't wait to tick all the boxes. We launch MVP products, we isolate a geography, we isolate a channel. We launch it and we see how the mix is faring there. We devote our monies onto concentrated efforts. When we see the mix working, right, we have increased confidence and then we scale it to a wider geography and we introduce new channels. So this also helps us to experiment and also tweak the mix along the way. So I think this agility including the tailwinds of the pandemic also has really helped us to go to increased our households by around 5x. Both also has come and I think it's been a good time. Great. I think 5x is a remarkable number in such a short span and correct me if I heard it right. You said 4,000 influencers in a month. Wow, that's quite an example of agile marketing. Yes it is. I mean to say, so we do it across different categories, CATA, BEC and the beauty is we can actually track it and because we sell on marketplaces, right, there is a mechanism to see how traffic comes, how your GVs increase, we track CTRs and ROAS very, very closely. Being a startup, right, everything comes in real time unlike I was actually speaking to Aisha and also UJIT about how data comes in for you to take corrective action. If you're selling in brick and mortar stores, it's a lead time of at least three months before the data comes in and you can take corrective action, but for us it's far more real time. So I think that's the beauty of how we actually operate. Correct. That makes a lot of sense. So I think so far we all agree that digital is becoming an increasingly important channel across all verticals. I think let's address the elephant in the room and I'm going to look at Vivek to help us answer this question, the post cookie world. I think the post cookie era is definitely fast approaching and it's making it hard for brands to deliver and to also measure their data, which ultimately has an effect on the ads, right? So I know that your company, ProfitVille, was built exactly for this reason. So can you help us understand how are you all helping brands overcome this? For someone like a D2C brand like a Clovia, how can you all help them prepare better for a cookie less future? So this will give you context, right? Most of advertising is to always focus on sort of collecting data on a 1P basis. So you're going to enrich your CDP with one-to-one data. All the activation platforms, the advertising platforms took that away, right? So you cannot target one-to-one anymore, right? GDPRCC prevents it and then cookies getting deprecated has suddenly created this void because now you don't know how you're going to understand your consumers. So when we started the company, we were very clear, we'll work with the genome of the best customers of the brands because that's what they know, right? So let's say if you would say, Nikhil knows who the best customers are, how many times will they transact, which times, like, what are the markets they come from, the returning products or not, all this information is there, right? So if you could actually just take these cohorts and segments and upload it on a platform like ours, right? So you can get the psychographics of that customers within seconds. So you'll know that these are your high value, this is the psychographic, these are your low value, this is the psychographic, these are people who return products, these are people who buy five times in a month, these are people who buy this kind of active wear, this kind of lingerie. So very quickly, you understand the audience. So you understand people who buy lingerie, you understand your high value audiences, and this then actually helps you in a lot of decision-making on a day-to-day basis, right? First of all, because it's on a cohort or a segment basis, you can activate against it, right? You can get, okay, you want to build a community, this is the psychographic, this is the kind of content you should create for the community. You want to choose an influencer, right? So I'll give you an example, I think this would be amazing, Vanda, that just imagine you have high value customers, you have an influencer, you take a psychographic of your high value customers, you take a psychographic of your influencer's audiences, and what if you could identify the overlap? So now what happens is, maybe your influencer has a million followers when they post something, right? My daughter's an influencer, you have 1% organic reach. That means only 10,000 people will see that post. But you have, let's say, 50,000 people who are overlapping. What if you could actually boost the influencer's post, only targeting the 50,000? So not only you reach 5x, but these are people who are similar to your high value audiences. So influencers are going to love you because you're adding more followers to her, but over a period of time, the influencer will become more and more effective for you, because you're adding the followers that you would like to add to her, but they are your high value customers. So I just believe that this has been a tailwind for us, both cookies and that, but I think the key is that intelligence platform should be used for things that we have not been able to guess for the platform. It should be used for market research. It should be used for understanding consumers to even make changes in the product, right? So if, let's say, I can give you a psychographic to Victoria's Secret and Clovia, and if Victoria's Secret has a lot of affinity in a certain market, maybe the kind of products that you have that compete with them head to head, those should be launched in those markets. So just imagine, right? You can do this for every single competition. Like we have a trending tool, where we do is that every day we tell you trends on TikTok, Snap, Google, and YouTube. Then AI helps you say, why is it trending? Can you link your brand to it? If yes, it also creates the creative. So a creative engine takes the psychographics of your best customers, puts it into a multimodal AI model of ChaGPT, Kohair, Bard, comes back, compares an AI, creates the creative construct for you. So what brief you should give to the agency as well as the creative? So see our purpose is, brand should give it to all the ecosystem partners. So when the brand license the platform, they should give it to the creative agency, give it to the media agency, give it to the marketing agency, give it to the consulting company, give it to the teams. So and because our reports you can give comments, so everybody can come and collaborate, right? So the purpose is, there should be one North Star that North Star is our most popular customers. And for that North Star, all the teams should work instead of silos collaboratively together to acquire and retain the most profitable customers we have. Because the bottom line of our company's profit wheel is that 20% of our customers give us most of our profits. But we don't know what they look like because that aligning different departments, the companies and our ecosystem partners towards that one direction become extremely difficult. So that's the problem we are trying to simplify. Completely agree with you and I think the future holds the reality that brands and marketers will have to move away from cookie targeting. And they will have to start relying more on their persistent identifiers. I think that's where I see things going. And incidentally at double verify we've always had our solutions that never dependent on cookie targeting. It was more audience targeted and segments is understanding their behavior. Isha, your point of view I think because it will be a great learning for us to know. At NEPA, how do you guys ensure adopting agile mindset will be able to help your brands drive growth through the learning that you'll have on data? I'll weigh in on a couple of terms that were thrown from the panel. We are talking about cookie less. And I think the cookie less world has as much posed a confusing situation for measurement. But also I think it's a great opportunity. For us, if I double click on NEPA, we offer consumer research for agile, brave marketers. That's what we say. But what is it doing? It's actually a great opportunity for us to have a shape shift sort of form for market research at this point. Because every time we're getting a RFQ or a brief, it's followed by cheaper, faster, better wins, right? So what is cookie less world really offering us is a lot of sometimes budget less, resource less. So you're doing more with less. So when we are giving advisory to a lot of our brands, it's coming in, what can I do now? What can I do with less? And that's becoming a very important part for us. In terms of our mindset shift, we are trying to democratize decision making a whole lot more as an agency. That means not every decision has to be taken by the complete team on the project. That means a project manager, a person who's selling, the top management, they all are equally empowered in terms of guiding the clients. In terms of the kind of shift and form that we are seeing in terms of types of research which is happening in the market, I'll take a moment on that also because we talked measurement and we talked about getting consumers from Meta to Mela. I think you were giving gems there, Sapan. And that's become very imperative because for us it's become more about outcome over output. So imagine once for a time we do like campaign evaluations, you've won so much of impressions on one campaign, but if today one of my say active year brand is pumping in three million unique ads, there is no way we can look at brand recall and the matrix the way we used to. It would be more about has my positioning shifted in that much time. Has my imagery been called upon? Not necessarily the funnel. So I've seen that shift that most of our clients have gotten used to outcome over output. Secondly, one would believe that post pandemic era research will become ad hoc and be like dipsticks once in a while, but always on community research is the future. You always have to be connected to the consumers and we are seeing a huge uplift in continuous work by clients where by brands where we're having continuous consumer connects. We're always looking for what are the white spaces. We're always having the same case of content, changes to scripts, changes to episodes, this is what's happening on ground. The last piece I would say also is that in terms of agile research apart from always on, behavioral studies are also coming to play. So less dependency on a lot of claim data, more dependency on what the system A and system B interactions are in terms of research, that is also to go. So I feel that this is a great opportunity for our sector because for agile marketers, you really have to tweak down the spirit animal of vanity research to something useful and actionable because that's what the brands are looking for today. Thank you. And I think that's quite a fresh perspective from a research standpoint. It'll be unfair to talk about. I just wanna add one thing here. And I was speaking with Isha before that this quick research is the order of the day that becomes very handy. And especially for a product like us where we are making the product every day, this kind of feedback is really helpful because then you can implement changes. Yeah, and I was telling her, she said, and she said, yeah, we do that these days because that's what the requirement is. And especially for brands like us. It'll be irrelevant for say two months, three months and sometimes used to have segmentation studies where we are looking at the segments for four years. And I've seen a drastic shift because pre-pandemic and post-pandemic, the stability of these segments have changed. We don't get studies on that frequency now. It's actually micro segments. Yeah, I think a lot of times, a lot of times, you know. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I'm saying in real time data, right? I mean to say measurement is so important. Once upon a time, my campaigns, I said, okay, my brand track metrics will shift on response consideration. Then it came to online track. Now people don't have time for online track. I have to check my scores every, okay, at least a week to see how it happens. I mean to say it is that agility, not only in execution, it's also in measurement. So I mean to say like in a startup, right? You tell investors that, okay, my Tom's point will increase and they say, okay, in how long? Like, can you show me results in a week? So we actually have surrogate metrics to see even equity scores in addition to traffic and ROAS on a weekly basis. Wow. You're very important, you know, because like we also have an ongoing track and I was telling Isha sometime back that by the time the results and the reports of the track come to us, a lot of times our shows have shut. So they'll say, this show is very good for your brand equity. Rates very high on your scores and we say, sorry boss, this show is closed now. So you know that's the requirement of agility because you need to take quick action. That's what is... I think that's what differentiates NEPA as a research company because you guys are not a post campaign, but while a campaign is ongoing, you'll have providing solutions. So you can actually apply that and get benefits of it while that particular campaign is ongoing. Awesome. So I think now that we've touched base about agile marketing from a consumer point of view, it'll be unfair to discuss agile marketing without we understand how is it important to have internal stakeholder support without which it's not possible to adapt to agile marketing keeping in mind of consumer requirements, right? Harish, I'm going to direct this question to you. On LinkedIn, you call yourself a serial entrepreneur. We've seen you play a crucial role in growing multiple businesses, including your current company, which is Mirim India. So if you could just share your expertise or a piece of advice to all of us, how being in the leadership position, you can cultivate a agile mindset for your team and encourage them to adopt a marketing approach. Yeah, thanks. That's an interesting question, you know? So we all seem to agree that agile marketing is the way we need to behave, but how do you change an organization's mindset from doing things in a certain way to doing in a different fashion? And let me give you an example of something we are doing for a very large global brand. We do creative work, media work, production work, CRM work, everything for them, and it's a global brand. A couple of years back, we set up an agile pod for the organization. Now what is an agile pod? An agile pod comprises of resources from like a copywriter, a designer, an HTML programmer, a creative technologist, a brand strategist, this becomes like an agile pod. And the agile pod is run by a scrum master. We borrow this term from the technology side of the business. What is a scrum master's job? His job is to keep on throwing challenges to the agile pod and seeing how they can come up with solutions. So this scrum master runs three week long sprints with the agile pod. He goes and identifies challenges. From where do you identify challenges? When you speak to brand managers globally, they keep on telling me that this communication is a problem. It's not working for me. Or how do I make this happen from the communication route? Or he goes and looks at campaigns that are going on to see which campaigns are not performing. Or the person picks up new innovation. I mean, chat GPT has come, right? We all know it's a brilliant thing. But how do I use it in my marketing? So he identifies these kind of challenges, creates three week sprint. In that sprint, the challenge is thrown to this team of five, six people. And these people don't need to be like dedicated resources. You can have 50% of a copywriter, 25% of a strategist. That's how the team is comprised. In this three week period, that team will come up with different kind of solutions, what to do. They will do test runs. They will try it out. What works well, they will institutionalize it across the organization. And what doesn't work well, you throw it out of the window. So say for example, one problem given to the team was how to use chat GPT. They started looking at all kinds of content. They figured that for this kind of content, chat GPT is okay. It kind of serves the purpose. But for this content, it does not. And once that happens, the process put into place, so everybody across the company actually starts using the solution. There are another experiment using metaverse. They figured as a brand, there is nothing we can do in metaverse, out of the window. So every three weeks, keep identifying something new, keep working on it, keep making the changes and keep putting it back in the organization. That's how we bring in the agile mindset. So fair to say that you think testing constantly and the most print approach would be the way forward. I believe the concept of agile marketing comes from agile software development. We should do waterfall development where you would build everything and then the customer said, they don't need it. But when you keep on getting the customers buying in shorter cycles, you know exactly what you're creating is going to create value for the stakeholders who need to do it. So at a company level, you need to create these kind of agile parts who can bring in that thinking. It's literally like changing the wheels of a train while in motion. You can't change the entire train. But you can start working on it bit by bit. Thank you. I think that's a good perspective and it really helps when the leadership comes with that mindset. But there are instances where we all have to balance, playing a balancing role, right? There are requirements of change ever, ever constantly from the consumers. But at the same time, we also have situations where it's important to balance it with the internal stakeholder requirements. So just trying to understand how can one balance this role and get your teams to understand the requirement of agility and adopt it internally. Jaya, do you think you want to take this? First of all, thank you. You've made my job an answer much simpler. Just picture this, okay? Castrol in India is about 130-year-old brand, iconic brand, but it also means that they have people who have worked in a certain style and fashion and which is the traditional FMCG automotive style of working where you do seasonal campaigns and cyclic marketing and all of that. Also picture this, that you have a sales force spread across the country, which is kind of, I don't know, 1,200 plus people in the ground. And picture this, that we are a product which you cannot develop overnight just by looking at trends, because it meets testing. Some of our products are in fact tested on Mars. Some of them are tested underwater. So what do you do, right? And then you see, when you meet your colleagues and ex-colleges, you're like, are you guys going agile and you suddenly feel like a rock? You're like, where are we and what are we doing? But luckily, Castrol is part of BP, British Petroleum, which is also a global organization, and we've got a young, dynamic CEO who comes in and says we will all go agile. Now, there are two kinds of people. One said who's going all helter-skerter, trying to understand exactly what we heard. What is a scrum master? What is a standing meeting? Technology is saying, how do you expect us to develop a product in four weeks? It's a year long, what do we test? How do we put it in the market? And the risks are high, and we are a listed entity. So we cannot just go ahead and do whatever we like and say tomorrow we'll undo what we've done. I think three things when I reflect on the journey. One is really literally getting the organization not just the marketing team to adopt agile. So at Castrol, we don't do only agile marketing. We do agile ways of working, which means we don't have project managers anymore. We have scrum masters and we have product owners, right? And we do standing meeting. There are, I think, three things that I feel when I reflected on this question. I think the first piece is, bite only what you can chew. Don't look at large campaigns, don't look at massive launches. They probably need another cycle and traditional way of working. But try and take small chews that you can, and what does that mean? It means that if we know that there are seven, eight, 10 lakh mechanics in India and we want to go and launch an app for them because now they're all digital. They're all sort of creating their own content also. The ambitious marketer in me would say, okay, let's go launch a full-fledged app. It should have training. It should have transactions. It should have everything, right? But the agile marketer would tell me, no, let's first go bite-sized. COVID has hit. They're all sitting free. They don't have work. Let's try and get them basic training, which for which they have time. Let's try and get them business, which means you do demand generation on that app. And once they start adopting the technology and start seeing benefit in it, that's when you sort of get your transaction. So today we have about seven and a half lakh mechanics with whom we transact directly and that's a fantastic relationship you built. So that's to my mind first side. I'm going to take some more time here. The second piece is about MVP. And I think everybody mentioned that. Even though we are an engine oil brand, there are certain things that you can pilot and test. And I think the product idea is what we also do. We thought of a certain set of product for bikes and we said, okay, we don't have time to test. Put it in a market, see if it works. 50% of the products work, 50 didn't, right? And then we launched this set of auto care range, which is not the engine products, but things that you use on top of your bike to take care of your bike. How do you learn in that process? I think the third piece, very important for a retail organization and widely distributed product like us is empowering the sales guys. Because what happens is customer needs are changing every day and with people having more access to information and especially in a category like us, where electrification and mobility and all of that is changing very fast. Specific customers have specific requirements, right? So Castrol has 25,000 odd workshops in the country. Not all workshops require the same, Bombay workshops, for example, say there's electrification happening and we need solutions. So what you do is you form a process in place which allows you to empower your sales guys saying, okay, within this budget, within these creative guidelines, you go ahead and do whatever you want to do as long as it fits into the process that's put in place. I think the fourth piece is about culture and all of us agree. It needs to come top down, yeah? And a lot of people need to be told it's okay. If you will fail, it's fine, we have your back. Put a process in place so that your risk is mitigated and when you sit in front of the board, the board is not making your life uncomfortable, saying how could you go and launch a product without testing it for X many hours. And I think the third piece is being able to put money behind agility. So it cannot be a buzzword, but you need to be able to go back to your top management or whoever your stakeholders are to say that by going agile and by adopting this new change, I have been able to show X million dollars, 100,000, whatever dollars, savings, and benefits to the company, which was then when you will get a lot of buy-in and a lot of training and everything that you need to make that agile engine move in the organization. So I think having a, building a successful case study and showing them the merit of it versus not doing it, right? The cost of doing it versus not doing it. Could I just add, please? I think, Jaya, you made a very valid point about by-talk only what you can chew. And I think one thing in my experience has been under the only large decisions, let's face it, we are not ready to be completely agile yet. So as Mastercard we sponsored, we took up a huge sponsorship of the BCCI, home cricket series, the single largest sponsorship in a single country in the world. I've had to explain to at least 15 non-Indians what cricket means to this country. And there was nothing agile about that, let me tell you. But once we got it, then we said, okay, within each match, because you can't predict the outcome. Are we gonna win? Is Australia gonna win, et cetera? Within that, how agile can the team be? And I think as marketing leaders, it's our job to manage the ecosystem and we all have it, whether it's investors, whether it's senior management, Indian companies, multinational companies. But I think that's the real value you can add to, ensure that your teams can move with speed. You know, just given the constraints of business and reputation and all of that. That makes sense. Yeah, actually, you know, when we talk of agile marketing, I think what is most important is empowerment. You need to empower your team to be agile. Otherwise, if you are stuck in layers and layers, then they cannot be agility. So empowerment, for me, is key for agile marketing. And that's why, like I said, right, it's unfair to talk about agile marketing just one side from the customer centric, but it's also important that we empower our internal stakeholders. Fab, I don't think we could have had a more diverse panel point of view on agile marketing. Quickly, before we wrap up today's session, guys, in a quick one-liner for our audiences as a takeaway, what benefit would adopting agile mindset bring to a company? We can start with you, Harish. Probably getting you more success and making you closer to your customers. Great. Vanda? Agility will give you more revenue. Ha, ha, ha. I think, in addition to all this, it'll make marketing more fun. Yeah. It'll give you an edge over your competitor. Yes, I think speed of execution and room for failures will help the organization learn, also, a lot more about what to do next. Acquire and retain young talent. Quite a relevant point. I was just about to say, but I also think it will just make stronger communities. Vick? Technology for, I would say, insights, real-time insights, and it's not an insight if it's not actionable. Super, so thank you so much to all our panelists, and I think today's session should help our plan your 2023 better. And yeah, that's it from us. Thank you.