 And welcome to the first Personnel Subcommittee hearing of the 118th Congress. I am pleased to welcome all of you here to this hearing to receive testimony on the military and civilian personnel programs at the Department of Defense and the military services in review of the Administration's Defense Authorization Request for Fiscal 2024. All three of my brothers served in the military, so supporting the military and military families means a lot to me. And I am particularly pleased to be chairing my first hearing as an Armed Services Subcommittee Chair. I'm honored to chair this subcommittee, and I look forward to continuing its long history of bipartisanship and working as a partner with ranking member Scott, and with all of our members on both sides of the aisle to improve the lives of our service members, of retirees, military families, and the civilian workforce. Our annual posture hearing provides the department the opportunity to discuss their personnel policy priorities for the coming year. This year marks the 50th anniversary of the All Volunteer Force. In today's hearing, I would like to focus on how we welcome young people into the military, how we support families who continue to serve, and how the military contributes to our communities. The Administration's National Defense Strategy gets it exactly right in prioritizing service members. We must do this to address one of the military's greatest challenges, the ongoing struggle to meet its recruiting goals. Today, only the Marine Corps and the Space Force are meeting their recruiting targets. Meanwhile, the Army is set to miss its target by tens of thousands of soldiers, and the Navy has recently lowered its requirements and standards for many ratings in order to address anticipated shortfalls. The most direct way to address this shortfall is by making sure that we are taking care of military personnel and their families. This is just as much a readiness issue as our supply of tanks and missiles and material to fight on land and at sea. So, where to start? Well, I have a lot of work that I want to propose for this subcommittee, including protecting and enhancing health care, continuing to build on Senator Gillibrand's leadership in addressing sexual assault, and combating the corrosive impact of the revolving door between senior Pentagon officials and defense contractors and foreign governments. I also look forward to working with the Readiness Subcommittee to be certain that U.S. military families are not living in unsafe and unsanitary housing conditions. I've done extensive investigative work here, and I have worked with other committee members on bipartisan legislation. For today's hearing, I have picked three items to begin with. Access to Child Care, Medical Debt, and the Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps, or JROTC. First, child care. Accessing child care remains a problem for all families, military and civilian. We must modernize and improve the way that DOD ensures that service members and their families have access to child care. And I am happy to work with any member of the committee, Democrat or Republican, who has good, smart, creative ideas on how to do that. Second, I want to take a good, hard look at medical debt and how it affects both members of the military and civilians. I want to ask specifically about implementation of my amendments along with Joaquin Castro, the 2021 National Defense Authorization Act, to provide DOD the authority to waive civilian debts from military hospitals, a bill that was intended to keep our doctors sharp without sticking patients with big private bills. I won't get to cover it today, but I am also concerned about service members who have tricare, but who still get stuck with medical bills they're expected to pay on their own. And finally, I have questions about the Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps, or JROTC, particularly about reports of sexual assault of our children. We have much to do to better support military families. I look forward to getting to work on these issues and many more. And I will now turn to Ranking Member Scott for his comments to open this hearing. Thank you, Ranking Member Scott. Thank you, Chairwoman. As this is the first meeting of the Personal Subcommittee of this Congress, let me begin by saying that I'm very much looking forward to working with Secretary or Senator Warren as we continue the bipartisan tradition of the Armed Services Committee in developing the National Defense Authorization Act. I'm on four committees, and this is my first subcommittee to be the Ranking Member. And I want to say that the Armed Services Committee is the one committee that actually works well together. And I think we're going to continue to do a great job with the National Defense Authorization Act again this year. Every member here is united in supporting our men and women in uniform and their families. This subcommittee has a long history of prioritizing the well-being and morale of our service members. I'm eager to continue that work as the new Ranking Member. Today the military faces, as we all know, a recruiting crisis. If current trends continue, the Army, Navy and Air Force will fail to achieve their recruiting missions this year. The Army and Navy look like they'll miss the mark by over 10,000 recruits each. Well, this would be the only the third time in history that the Air Force has failed to meet its recruiting mission. This situation is unprecedented in the 50-year history of the Army, the all-volunteer force. And this subcommittee must make it our top priority to do whatever we can to fix it. I'm concerned that in the midst of this challenging recruiting environment, the Navy has decided to lower enlistment standards. We've seen this approach tried before. It had disastrous results. I'm a Navy veteran myself. I joined at the age of 18. I probably did more swabbing the decks and clean the routines than I did being a radarman. I'm also the son of a World War II veteran who fought, who was one of 3,000 people that did all four combatant jumps with the A-2nd Airborne. I also fought in the Battle of the Bulge. I know that no job in the military is easy or unimportant. When ships catch fire or in collision, as has happened repeatedly in the recent past, every sailor must know how to respond to safe lives. When enlistment standards drop below certain levels, we have seen increased morale and discipline problems, which are accompanied by lower unit readiness. These are not acceptable outcomes. I hope to use this hearing to learn more about what the Navy is doing to avoid the mistakes of the past in this area. The good news is that as difficult as recruiting is right now, retention levels are generally quite high. That means once people join the military, they tend to like it and want to stay. Military families in particular have higher retention rates than single service members. This is supported by DOD surveys that report married service members with children have the highest levels of satisfaction with the military way of life. So we need to ask ourselves, why is there such a disconnect between recruiting struggles and retention successes? And what can we do to bridge that gap? As we continue working to ensure service members and their families enjoy high quality of life in the military, we need to do more to share their inspiring stories with the rest of the country. Effective use of marketing and advertising must be a priority right now, and we need to resource it accordingly. The Department of Defense should also be an advocate for the many benefits that come with military service. For example, we know that veterans have lower unemployment rates and higher rates of home ownership, marriage, educational achievement. Military service sets young men and women on the path to a great life. We need more people to know that. So we have major issues facing our military and this subcommittee stands ready to tackle them. That's why I was excited to take the position as ranking member because there are real issues like housing, childcare, recruitment and health care that demand our attention. These aren't Republican or Democrat issues. They're things that this committee has and must continue to work on by person basis to fix so military members and their families are taken care of. This committee did this last Congress to better protect against and prevent sexual assault. Working together on these important issues allows us to best serve those who serve and protect our nation. That's why I was incredibly disappointed when I finally received Secretary of State Snow's prepared statement of several witnesses last night at 10 p.m. and found that a major focus of Pentagon, I'm sure, probably at the origin of the White House, was prioritizing DEI, basic cultural war issues. I've run big companies. I know the importance of ensuring that we have a workplace, whether in the military or elsewhere, where people can come to their jobs without the threat of being disrespected or discriminated against. But when it comes to our armed forces, the top question should be, is every person who wants to join solely focus on the mission of intimidating the hell out of our enemies and defeating them if necessary? It's not about hitting diversity quotas, it's about being the most lethal military fighting force on the planet because the folks who wear the uniform are warfighters, unapologetically devoted to protecting American values, putting that above all else. Our commanders know this, and I'm greatly concerned that this administration is forcing them to move away from that to achieve some diversity metric that isn't based on enhancing the lethal fighting capabilities of the American military. We're creating nice talking points for the administration to tout race and gender instead of fighting power and strength. Do I believe that our military should reflect America and be made up of fighters as diverse as places like my home state of Florida? You better believe it. But to assert that diversity quotas and pronoun training are more important than the basic needs of recruitment and retention are caring for the needs of our current force by ensuring proper access to child care, good housing and health care is outrageous. And I think everybody in this room knows that. So I look forward to getting to the real issues, solving problems, taking care of our members and their families. That will be my focus as ranking member of this subcommittee. Thank you to each of the witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee today, and I look forward to your testimony. Senator Ricker, I understand you wish to make a statement. Yes, ma'am, I do. And I appreciate that. I had intended to attend the subcommittee hearing to talk solely about junior ROTC, but I do have to address the matter that the distinguished ranking member of the subcommittee just raised. And that is the submitted statement by the Undersecretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. I do hope that this statement is not a reflection of the department's priorities because if it is, I'm very concerned. We have a military recruiting problem, as the chair mentioned, as the ranking member mentioned. It should be at the top of our list. And yet this statement of some 26 pages, let me make sure I've got it right. Some 26 pages does not get to recruiting until page 20 of the statement. Instead, topics like abortion and diversity, equity and inclusion are addressed in those first 20 pages. I don't understand why the department feels that is necessary to change the culture of the military by, quote, inculcating diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility DEIA principles across the department efforts. As a veteran, as a ROTC commissioned officer, as a former member of the Air Force Reserve, I can tell you the United States military has been decades ahead of the rest of our society in inclusion. And I've said publicly many times the United States military is the greatest civil rights program in the history of the world, and I'm proud that they've been ahead of our society on that. When some of my colleagues criticize the department for misplaced priorities, Mr. Secretary, I think that's what this concern that I have and the ranking member has are what they're talking about. Now, with regard to junior ROTC, in my home state of Mississippi, the program is a pillar in the development of future leaders. Over the years, I've passed legislation to expand the number of JROTC units as a part of the NDAA, increase funding for the program and grow the population of veterans who are eligible to be junior ROTC instructors. Junior ROTC helps our nation's high schoolers reach more of their full potential to become successful citizens. A RAND report, a RAND Corporation report found, and I quote, there is consensus that JROTC participation has both academic and nonacademic benefits for students, unquote. According to this very comprehensive and scholarly report, most of these benefits go to economically disadvantaged schools and the students of those schools. In addition to these benefits, the report noted that JROTC provides, quote, volunteer opportunities that allow students to benefit the larger community, unquote. In my conversations with superintendents, principals, and parents, when I ask if you would like to have junior ROTC in your school, I've never run into a superintendent or a principal that said other than yes, I very much am glad we have junior ROTC or I would like to have a junior ROTC program. This moment presents us with an opportunity to address a claim in recent news articles about JROTC. This reporting suggests that JROTC instructors commit sexual misconduct at much higher rates than civilian teachers. I very much doubt that assertion. There's simply no data available to support that. Sexual misconduct towards students is never acceptable, and the JROTC program understands this. In every instance of misconduct involving JROTC, the military immediately suspended the instructor. But I will also say this to my fellow senators, junior ROTC makes an easy target in this area because the Department of Defense is a central repository of information and is subject to strict oversight. So there's a lot of information about JROTC. On the other hand, the information in public school systems is diffuse since the systems are large, sprawling, and decentralized. We know school districts often do not publicly disclose cases of teacher sexual misconduct. It's just a fact. It is such a problem that last year the Department of Education released a report on the issue and found only 20 states have laws on the books that prohibit suppressing information regarding school employee sexual misconduct. And so we don't get all the facts, but no one would suggest that we do away with public schools simply because there is some misconduct on the part of a very few members of the faculty. If anything, there is every reason to believe that junior ROTC is a safer environment than others for our future leaders. Junior ROTC instructors receive twice the screening of a normal teacher before they enter the classroom, both from the military and the school district. Given this extra scrutiny, I'm highly skeptical of the idea that JROTC instructors are more likely to commit misconduct. Congress should be mindful of the highly positive, highly positive impact of junior ROTC. In fact, it is celebrated on both sides of the aisle on this committee. My colleague from Massachusetts, Senator Warren, is to be thanked for raising this issue and has taken a substantive and helpful interest in JROTC. And so as she re-enters the room, I thank her for that. I will carry our shared work forward by introducing additional legislation this year that would further expand junior ROTC to the hundreds of schools currently on the waiting list for a program. I hope to have many partners in this effort and I look forward to working with Senator Warren and the ranking member, Senator Scott, as we approach this year's NDAA. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Thank you for appearing. We have two panels today. The first panel consists of officials from the Office of the Secretary of Defense who will cover the full range of military and civilian personnel programs. The Honorable Gil Cisneros, Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. Dr. Lester Martinez Lopez, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs. Ms. Sean Skelly, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Readiness. Mr. Tom Constable, Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower and Reserve Affairs. And Ms. Elizabeth Foster, Executive Director, Office of Force Resiliency. Welcome to all of you. Appreciate your being here. The second panel will consist of the Assistant Secretaries of the Military Departments for Manpower and Reserve Affairs. We'll have Ms. Agnes Schaefer, Assistant Secretary of the Army. Mr. Franklin Parker, Assistant Secretary of the Navy. And Mr. Alex Wagner, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force. Again, thank you all for appearing here. Under Secretary Cisneros, I understand that you're going to deliver an opening statement on behalf of the first panel. Is that right? Then you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Chairwoman Warren, Ranking Member Scott, Distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Department of Defense's greatest strength, our people. On behalf of the entire team, I thank the committee for your support of the 2.3 million active and reserve component service members and over 900,000 civilians who defend our nation and the families who serve alongside them. This year is an especially momentous year as the department celebrates the 75th anniversary of President Truman's order to integrate the armed forces as well as the 50th anniversary of the all-volunteer force. Both of these events are responsible for creating the most unrivaled fighting force in history. Near the beginning of his tenure, Secretary Austin laid out three priorities to ensure our military is capable of meeting any current and future threats, defending the nation, taking care of our people, and succeed through teamwork. I have established four overarching priorities that are foundational to all the P&R's efforts. Change the culture, promote the health, well-being, and safety of the force and families, cultivate talent management, and advance strategic readiness. In changing the culture, the department understands that trust is key to preserving our all-volunteer force. We thank Congress for its support to providing the full amount of the department's FY23 budget request in support of the recommendations of the Independent Review Commission on Sexual Assault in the Military. We are making progress towards implementing implementation of all approved IRC recommendations, and your support for FY24 budget requests would ensure we complete this historic reforms to military justice, build a specialized prevention workforce, train and equip response personnel, and empower survivors to recovery. We are also ensuring diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility principles are applied across the department's efforts. We want to leverage the strength of all of our people, advance opportunity, remove barriers, and ensure everyone within the Department of Defense is treated with dignity and respect. With regard to promoting the health, well-being, and safety of the force and families, we know the global pandemic economic pressures such as inflation and operational temple make it more important than ever to focus on training and taking care of our people. Thanks to Congress's support, our service members and civilians received a 4.6 basic pay raise at the beginning of this year, and the FY23 President's budget includes a 5.2% pay raise for 2024. These pay raises are critical to recruiting and retaining the all-volunteer force. Secretary Austin directed the creation of the Suicide Prevention and Response Independent Review Committee to conduct a comprehensive review. This committee's report was published in late February, and the department is carefully reviewing the recommendations. Every death by suicide is a tragedy and weighs heavily on the military community. We are tackling these issues with focused attention and dedication. With regard to cultivating talent management, recruiting challenges will persist, but we are looking for ways to galvanize our future service members on the values of military service. The department is implementing a comprehensive outreach strategy that includes partnerships with other agencies such as Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, and Selective Service that touts the benefits of public service to our nation and our communities. We are also working on efforts to dispel inaccuracies and educate both our youth and their influencers through a national military advertising campaign. We ask for your support in the FY24 Presidential Budget Request, which includes $40 million for a joint marketing campaign. With PNR's fourth priority, advancing strategic readiness, we are ensuring we can build, maintain, and balance warfighting capabilities and competitive advantage to achieve strategic objectives across threat and time horizons. This includes updating our professional military education to make it more effective and relevant to the national defense strategy. As we look to the future, it is imperative that we do not take for granted what makes our U.S. military unparalleled and unmatched. It is our people, the active, reserved National Guard, DOD civilians, and all of their families who are willing to serve this country. They are the bedrock of our national security. So thank you for your continued support of our service members, their families, and we look forward to your questions. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Secretary Cisneros. I like to start. I recognize myself for opening questions. All across this country, families need high-quality, affordable childcare in order to show up at their jobs or go to school. Military families are no exception on this. In fact, because of nonstandard work hours, sudden changes, significant deployments, the need for childcare among our military families can be even greater. And that's why our military has long recognized that childcare is essential to supporting service members' ability to protect our country. DOD runs the largest employer-sponsored childcare program in the United States. Military and non-military families should all have access to high-quality, reliable care, which is why I based my bill for a universal childcare system on the DOD model. But the DOD childcare system still faces its own challenges, a top one being finding enough workers to care for eligible children. Secretary Cisneros, workforce shortages have been a major problem in the childcare industry for years now, and of course it's been made even worse since the pandemic. Are military child development centers facing this issue as well? Thank you for that question, Senator, and really thank you for your support on the childcare efforts, not only in the military but throughout the nation. You are correct in stating that there is a national childcare provider shortage in the country, and we are feeling that as well. Since the pandemic, we have had trouble, difficulties trying to hire more childcare workers to work in our child development centers. Last year we were able to raise the salary, the minimum wage of our workers. We're going to talk about the money in just a minute, but you do have a problem. Let's start there. And I just want to make sure I got this on the record. What it means for military families when they don't have access to the childcare that they need. Can you just say a word about that? Well, ma'am, it does create difficulties. We, as you stated, see childcare as part of a readiness. We want our service members to be able not to really have to kind of think or worry, to be able to have the ability to drop their child off for childcare at a child development center or using one of the other options that we have available to them. Really kind of relieve some stress from them and it allows them to focus on their mission and performing their task. So that's a part of performing your mission and being able to concentrate on your tasks. Now, it takes a lot to recruit and retain staff for anything, but one significant issue is pay, which is where you started a minute ago. When was the last time you updated your pay scale for childcare workers? Well, last year, ma'am, we were able to raise the salary. I'm not asking that. I'm saying when did you last update the pay scale for childcare workers? Well, raising the salaries of our child development workers last year when we raised the minimum wage was when we were able to do that. You got the minimum up, but I'm talking about the scale overall. Not everybody's down at minimum. I understand that the last time was 30 years ago. Does that sound about right? It's probably been a while since we looked at it, ma'am. And what is the highest level of pay a childcare worker in the military system can receive under your 30-year-old scale? From what I've been told, ma'am, it's allowed Mr. Constable to answer this question. Mr. Constable, you want to answer that one? I think that was known as a lateral pass. Chairwoman, thank you very much. The top of the scale is approximately $55,000 per year. Yeah, $55,000. That's it. That's the top. So DOD runs a school system for military families called DODEA, or DODIA, right? How does the pay scale for DODEA teacher compare with DOD childcare pay scales for people with similar credentials? Secretary Cisneros, unless you want to call on Mr. Constable. Ma'am, they don't really have similar credentials. The question I'm asking is when you've got people with similar credentials, maybe I should ask it this way. What is the top pay for DODEA workers? Allow Mr. Constable to answer this. Mr. Constable? The top pay is approximately $110,000 per year. So approximately $110,000. I think we understand the difference here. $55,000, $110,000 for the very top. So if we had two workers with the same credentials, same education, same experience, and one was teaching four-year-olds at a DOD child development center, they would earn only about half as much as one teaching six-year-olds at a DODIA center. So I just have to ask, do you think that makes any sense? And are you surprised to find out that you're having trouble filling these spots? Ma'am, we know that as you stated, right, we are having difficulty filling these spots. It's a national problem. And I think being able to pay a competitive salary is part of that. That has to be there to get the solution to resolving this problem. So that's why we're here today to talk about this. Look, childcare is infrastructure. We need roads. We need bridges to get to work. In the case of our military, sometimes you need an aircraft carrier or a cargo jet, but you also need a functioning childcare center. And if the federal government is serious about military readiness and national security, if it is serious about retaining families, then we need to invest more in childcare workers. And that means within DOD it's put money into these workers. And we need to start by updating these pay scales and doing it now. 30 years is too long to go between. And it is a statement that we don't care about those people. If we care about this system, we'll update those pay scales. Thank you. And I now call on Senator Scott. Thank you, Chairwoman. All right. Secretary Cisneros, you know that we talked about the recruiting numbers. Tell me what you think of your marketing plan and your advertising program and is it very effective? What should you do differently and is it properly funded? Thank you for that question, Senator. I will admit, we need to do a better job of telling our story. The benefits of military service, what it could provide. You know, I was at, just last month, I went out to go talk to a group of college students as well as a group of high school students about the benefits of service and really how it changed my life. Like yourself, sir, I joined the military 18 years old. It put me on a different trajectory that I couldn't even imagine, that I never would have imagined for myself that I'd be sitting here. So there are benefits to that. And I think as our senior enlisted, we're over here on the hill a couple weeks ago, testifying is that we do, we agree that we need to do a better job of telling our story and marketing ourselves. We're working with our public affairs department to do that right now. But as I said in my opening statement, for OSD and the services have their own budget and they can talk about that in the next panel. But for OSD, we are requesting $40 million that's in the budget to really help us with a joint marketing campaign that will allow us to go out and do the research with jammers that we have as well as to kind of go out and market to the influencers, whether it be teachers, grandparents, parents, to let them know about the benefits of military service. So I'm in business. I've spent a lot of money on marketing in my companies. And so we tested everything. We tested all of our marketing plans. We tested what worked, what didn't work. And so we'll talk about how you do that with regard to your advertising and how you market the military. Well, we do have a firm. We have jammers, as we call it, that we work with to go and to help us prepare the marketing campaign that does the research for it. With that, I can turn over to Mr. Constable who can go into more depth about jammers and what it does for us. Thanks very much, sir. Senator, thanks for your question. Jammer is the joint advertising marketing research group that does our work is very similar to what you'd find in industry and works closely, in fact, with industry. As you probably are aware, it's a highly fragmented marketplace, so really testing and piloting is key just as you've said. So to that end, the additional funds requested in the President's budget request for FY24 will not be focused on closing deals with service members, the contact to contract as the services can speak about. What it's really focused on is building the brand, making sure there's more public awareness, and making sure that when the time for a decision comes for a young person to join or to not join, they are at least aware that military service or public service even is an option to them. And then the services can speak about what's in their budget separately for then going in and building on that baseline that we will provide through jammers to actually close the sales with each of the contractors. So, first off, if you could send us a copy of your research, I'd like to see it. Second, if it's not successful, are you using the same people? Have you changed firms? Are you using the same people that got you where you're way behind? So I'd have to get you, along with the other information of the background with whom we've worked over the different iterations of this effort. But has anything changed? Significantly. So, again, what you're going to see in the FY24 request is one of the biggest increases that we put into this because we have our investment in that baseline awareness that the marketing targeted towards those influencers has waned over the years. So we saw the need to, again, not leave it all to the service ads or the service online spots or whatever medium they choose to do the whole job. Again, what you're seeing now is based on the data and understanding that rebuilding the brand and getting awareness to all of our target populations is where we're going. So if you're asking for $40 million, I mean, do you have research to suggest if you got there and if you start trying something and it doesn't work, are you going to stop? I think we will have to see how the market responds to the investment like everything else. But the intent is to sustain over time that baseline marketing to keep the brand out there, to keep the awareness of public service, military service out there. And then I suspect that as the service numbers have been flow over years and years, they will make larger, smaller investments as they need to to keep their ranks at the right end strength. Thank you. Senator Hirona. Senator. Secretary Sisneros. I'm probably from Mr. Constable too. My office has heard from our service members in Hawaii that they are deeply concerned about imminent cuts to their cost of living allowance by around 50%. That's a big potential cut. Certainly I share their concerns. Hawaii has the most expensive cost of living of any state in the country. Today, the cost of a gallon of gas in Hawaii is $4.85, more than a dollar above the national average of $3.46. A gallon of milk in Hawaii is about $7.25 compared to the national average of $4.41. The cost of housing in Hawaii is higher than any other state I could go on. As we continue to combat inflation, the thought of slashing the cost of living allowance for service members in Hawaii is absurd. Secretary Sisneros, does the Department of Defense have information suggesting the cost of living has fallen by 50% in Hawaii? If not, how does DOD justify cutting the cost of living allowance for our soldier, sailors, airmen, guardians, and Marines in Hawaii? Really, how do you justify this kind of potential cuts? Ma'am, the cost of living allowance that you're referring to is the, well, over in Hawaii they get what we call O-colon, overseas cost of living allowance. And it really is about trying to bring it in line with what the, to make sure that their dollars goes just as far as it does here in the United States and the continental United States, I should say. I'm glad you know the continental U.S. because Hawaii is a state. Go on. What we're seeing here, right, is that the struggles are really kind of with inflation. And inflation doesn't really play into the COLA analysis and how we come up with that. But in order to kind of make it, well, in order to what happened as it's evening, things here in the continental United States have grown as well and have gotten more expensive. But I'll turn it over to Mr. Constable again to kind of go into detail of how the formula is figured out there. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Senator. Well, first of all, let me just get to the, because I'm running out of time. So you believe this kind of a huge cut for service members in Hawaii is justified? And if so, could you send me the justification or send this committee the justification? We could provide you with the information. You consider this kind of cut to be justified? I think the way that COLA is figured out in the system that it is and the way it is, and it's not just, I will say, ma'am, it's not just Hawaii, but it's all around the world. Alaska? Well, wherever you're making these kinds of cuts. Germany, Japan, all these areas are facing the same cut, because, again, the COLA is meant to bring the pay scale or pay in alignment with what it would be here to make sure that the dollar, if they were here in the States, that the dollar would stretch just as far as they are overseas. But as we struggle here or people are struggling here in the continent of the United States, it's kind of even the playing field out. But we can provide you with that information and I'll turn it over to Mr. Constable. Well, clearly I don't think that these kinds of cuts are justified for service members in Hawaii. They're already having a pretty hard time. I was glad to see the President's budget included multiple investments in our service members, like 90 million to expand full day pre-K, 209 million for suicide prevention efforts, and 637 million for continued investment in sexual assault prevention and response. And although we've made some changes over time in how the military would deal with sexual assault cases, it's still an issue. It continues to be a scourge. So I'm glad that this kind of investment is being made to continue to fight the scourge. And I appreciate the Department of Defense's commitment to taking care of its people, but I think there is more to do, especially for service members considering their family planning options. Mr. Secretary, what is the importance of the Department of Defense's new policies to ensure access to reproductive healthcare for our service members? And also, crier preservation is a fertility tool that service members, men and women, could use if they wish to have children in the future. This is something that the British Armed Services provides. So could you give me your views on what the cost of crier preservation under tricare would be? And could this not be an important recruiting and retention tool for the military? All of the services are facing those issues. You know, as you stated, Senator, I believe flaming planning is very important, and we've done a lot, I believe, to kind of help the service members with that. We have walking hours for contraceptives for our service members at our MTFs now that they can go and make sure that they are on a plan there. We initiated the policies there to help support reproductive healthcare for our service members as well, where they're denied access to certain types of healthcare in certain states, where we'll be able to ensure that they'll be able to travel in order to get that healthcare. As far as what you're asking for, I can turn over to Dr. Martinez who can go into depth with that. Senator, thank you for the question. We do provide the services to service members that may have had trauma or are facing cancer. So it's a very limited and only for service members. We are not providing the care for all the beneficiaries. In the tricare system, and I don't know why. You're saying that you provide prior preservation options? We may provide that in the case of trauma or in the case of... That's a very limited set of services. I would ask that you look at what the British Armed Forces is doing in this area and let us know if this is something that we should contemplate. Obviously, I support going forward with it. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Senator Bud. Thank you, Madam Chair. It's an honor to be on the subcommittee with you. It's good to be with the member or former member of the U.S. House. We served together for a few years. A couple of questions. I want to draw your attention, and this is on the heels of the recruiting conversation. I want to draw your attention to an incredible organization called Our Community Salutes. It recognizes and honors high school seniors who plan to enlist in the military following their graduation. They also recognize... The group also recognizes their parents and other members of their family. This is an incredible way to build and maintain support for our military within communities across America. Despite senior military leaders speaking at these events, I'm told that military lawyers have taken issue with official communications to inform recruiters and senior leaders of opportunities to engage or support Our Community Salutes. So, Mr. Secretary, will you commit to look into this and find ways to partner with OCS, Our Community Salutes, and other organizations like it? The bottom line is we need all the support we can get to get close to our recruiting gaps. So will you look into this? Yes, Senator. We could take that for the record and kind of... I'm not familiar with the organization or as to why certain members, senior members have been told possibly not to participate, but that's something we could take for the record and supply you with an answer. Glad to submit that and look forward to your response. Speaking of responses, thank you for getting back on my letter I recently submitted. I received this yesterday. This is a letter my colleagues and I sent regarding the administration's decision to permit taxpayer funding for and authorization of travel to acquire abortions. The bottom line is I just don't think this is an acceptable response. Once again, the department failed to answer the committee's repeated requests for information and instead we got what amounts to a form letter just repeating the new policies and we knew the policies that's why I asked the questions. So here's a few of the questions I'd like for you to answer for the record. First, how many women or military families have refused to be stationed in Germany, South Korea or any other country because of those nation's abortion laws? I don't have that information for you, Senator. If it's zero, if it's non-zero would you please send information on that? Would you commit to sending information on that? I'll commit to looking into that and seeing what the information is if that's available but that's not typically a question. Please let us know if there's zero information or if there is information let us know what that is. Does the department have any data on women who felt deterred from joining the military for fear of being stationed at an installation or base in a state or nation that has restricted abortion laws? We've had discussions, listening sessions with service members who let their folks know. Secretary, any data on that? We also have a RAND report that they published and that the effects that they believe would happen from, well the effects that the DOB decision would have on recruiting and retention. If you would send that to us because we've repeatedly requested it it seemed like that would be a good report to have sent. We can share the RAND report. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. What actions, if any, would the DOD take against a commander that refused to facilitate the abortion of an unborn child in keeping with their sincerely held religious beliefs? Well, Senator, the commander doesn't really know when the service members are making a request they're asking for reproductive health care, reproductive health care, and that could come in different forms. The commander should not be digging into what the specific reason is why they're seeking reproductive health care. The assumption was that it was known and it was against their sincerely held religious beliefs. Would the DOD take action against such a commander? Well, again, the commander should not know. They shouldn't be digging into that. In the case that it was. But I will say that the commander feels uncomfortable with kind of approving such a request. He can move it up to chain a command, but it is not the responsibility of the commander to put their religious beliefs onto service members. Yeah, that really wasn't the question. But, you know, millions of Americans, myself included are rightfully against the use of taxpayer funds to facilitate abortion. So we'll submit some more questions for the records. But in my final time here, what's being done to ensure that those kicked out of the military due to the vaccine mandate are able to rejoin should they want to continue their service? Senator, that would be a question that could be better answered by the services. They are the ones carrying out those tasks, but the secretary made it clear in his memorandum that service members that had put in a request for accommodation, whether it be administrative, religious or medical reasons that those, if a decision had been made, those requests would be pulled if it was basically for COVID-19. And if other members that were separated request there is a process for them to apply to the board, to apply for one of the boards that the services have to ask to come back into the service or to have their DD 214 adjusted, whether it be their status adjusted as far as their discharge status. Okay, thank you for being here. I'll hand over to the panel. Chair, want to yield back. Thank you. Actually, you can't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, we're in the middle. We're in the middle of a hearing here. Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and good afternoon to our witnesses. Two years ago, gentlemen, I introduced legislation that ensured Guard and Reserve members receive the same monthly incentive pay for maintaining the same critical skills and taking on the same hazardous duties as their counterparts in their active component. Reservists who qualify for these incentive pays work hard to maintain the same skills to the same standards as their active duty counterparts, often on time when they are not technically drilling, yet they are only currently paid one-thirtieth of the incentive pay that their active duty counterparts receive. So the situation is, for example, jump pay. You have to do three jumps a month as a paratrooper. A reservist goes out, he does his three jumps in one day. An active duty troop goes out and does his three jumps in one day. The active duty troops gets $150. The reservist gets $5. For the same three jumps. This is an equity issue, and one that I'm glad that my colleagues in this committee voted in an overwhelmingly bipartisan way to address by including my bill in the FY 2022 NDAA. Before implementing this section of the NDAA, though, DOD must submit to Congress a report on its plan for providing equal incentive pays along with a certification that it will not negatively impact force structure. This report was due six months ago, in September 30th of last year, yet Congress is still waiting for this report. Last October, after the deadline passed, I led a bipartisan and bicameral letter to Secretary Austin urging the department to expeditiously issue its report and certification to Congress as required by law. We are still waiting to hear from DOD on this. We're still waiting to pay our reservists equitably for the critical skills and risks that they take to contribute to our military. Under Secretary Cisneros, how close is the department to completing the report? And more importantly, how much longer would you like our nation's reserve component to wait before it is afforded incentive pay parity with their counterparts on active duty? Senator, thank you for the question there. And I know I was a former TAR officer, and then later they changed the name to full-time support in the United States Navy and working with our reservists. I know how hard they work and how dedicated they are to defending the nation. For that, I'm going to turn over to Mr. Constable. Wonderful. Why are you six months late? Senator, this is a conversation that has started many, many working groups, really, so we're very much aware of the requirement and apologies for the late report. We do anticipate meeting with the staff soon to talk through some of the impasses based primarily on the realization in all camps that not all special skills, not all special pays are created equally or should be treated the same. We just have to find the right mix of places wherein we seek equal dollars versus equal consideration and, of course, cognizant of creating incentives to draw people from one force to the other as one report has warned. But we do owe you a report, and we do believe we're nearing a solution to propose. Can you tell that in ordinary people's speakers opposed to DOD speak? What's nearing? Six more months? A year? I believe we're... I think you guys are slow rolling this because you don't want to implement it. Not years, not months, Senator. I think the answer is weeks. Obviously, faster when I go back than before I left the building. Less than two months. I want to know. I'm going to return back. All right. You call me back within a week to tell me when the report will come? I think it's ready for staff. I don't believe, Senator, it's ready for the members quite yet. When will it be ready for the members? When can you commit to? I can commit to meeting with the staff in weeks or less. I'll give you four weeks. Senator. You need to do this. And this idea that you can slow roll this and that an active duty troop is going to leave the active duty to go through the reserves because he's going to get $150 extra a month for three jumps is an insult to the troops who are on active duty and it's still an insult to the troops who do those same three jumps every single month in order to meet those standards. I'm going to move on to my next question. The military services face challenges in meeting their recruiting goals in part due to a historically small pool of eligible recruits. This year I'm introducing the Enlist Act. This legislation enables the Department of Defense to expand its recruiting pool to include individuals like DACA recipients and other longtime residents of this country who can pass a DOD background check and meet the service's high standards for enlistment. While maintaining the Department's security standards the Enlist Act will aid the service's recruitment efforts by allowing highly skilled and motivated individuals to succeed in the military. Under Secretary Cisneros, Mr. Constable, I'd like to hear from each of you whether you think the Enlist Act's expansion of the pool of possible recruits would benefit military recruitment efforts and as a follow up for either of you what other actions has the Department undertaken to recruit diverse talents from across the nation? Ma'am, Senator, we've tried this before to try so we are in support of trying to diversify our enlistment pool in order. I know there are a number of kids, young students that have grown up here in the United States that consider themselves American citizens that have really done nothing wrong, have good lives and have want to serve. This is something that we've looked at in the past that we tried to move through in the past and we will continue to try and do it again. You didn't answer my question. How about Mr. Constable? Senator, the Department would support any effort to expand the recruiting pool so we look forward to reading the details within your bill. The $40 million that we spoke of earlier that's contained in the President's budget request for jammers in one part is really geared toward getting at some more diverse populations. We don't like leaving any money on the table or any population unchecked, especially with all the skills that they bring us or the opportunity to better reflect the American public. So to that end, you should expect to see and demand to see more marketing, more advertising geared towards a broader population. And we look forward to the legislature bill. Thank you. Thank you. I'm over time. That's fine. Thank you. Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good to be on the committee. I want to thank the witnesses. I'm going to follow up on Senator Duckworth's line of questioning for Mr. Cisneros, Ms. Scali, and Mr. Constable. And if this has already been talked about, I apologize for getting in here late, but we have this recruiting problem right now. And I don't have to tell you, but the Army's 2022 recruiting goal is missed by 25%. So far this year, the Army, Navy, and Air Force are projected to miss their 2023 targets. And I'm really interested in what you think is going on. There's different theories. It's economy. There's, you know, I think there's cultural issues, right? If you tell everybody every day in the Washington Post and the New York Times that the military is full of extremists, which, oh, by the way, it isn't, okay? It isn't. Let's just get that one right. You're going to have people go, well, geez, I don't want to send my young son and daughter there. Right? So the Army deserves some credit developing its soldier prep course, which I think has been successful. The Navy seems to be taking a different approach, which is dropping its standards to as low as they can go. Not really wise, in my view. The Marine Corps hasn't missed its recruiting goals, but I don't think they're out of the woods yet. So what do you think is happening? And how do we need to get on it? And I do think that the average man and woman, young man and woman in America who wants to serve, they want to deploy, they want to defend their country, they want to fight. Right? So I think we can't lose that aspect of trying to recruit for the men and women who want to do it. We don't have to go too far afield to say, oh, we're going to do all these other appeals. We should appeal to the patriotism and desire that's been in this country for 200-plus years to deploy and fight for their country. I think that's how you get good recruiting numbers. But what do you guys think? Senator, thanks for the question. And again, for the opportunity to kind of talk about recruiting. We know there are some challenges out there right now. And one of the things that we are seeing in the research that we have is that there is definitely a military civilian divide. You know, as Senator Duckworth said, right, the recruiting pool is getting less and less smaller and smaller of those who are qualified. So they're not qualified because they're overweight. They have a low ASVAP score. What is it? Well, those are two things right there, sir. Right there. They're not meeting the academic standards. They're not meeting the physical fitness standards. But then we're also seeing that 30 years ago, 40% of people between the ages of 16 to 24 knew somebody who had served in the military. That's only 15% right now. They don't know what the military is. They don't understand what it's about. And that was why earlier we talked about, you know, we have got to do a better job of going out and telling our story and the benefits of military service. Great story. It changed my life. It put me on a different trajectory. I know it's done that for thousands of people. So are you viewing the soldier prep course as an answer that other services can maybe emulate? I think the, well, the Army could probably better talk about that later on. But that is one of the things that they saw. They saw there was a need to help students academically, to help them get in better shape, nor so they can meet those standards. I understand from what I understand is the Navy is talking about emulating that program as well. Any other thoughts, Mr. Constable and Ms. Kelly? Senator, I want to point out one specific initiative we've had, and that is the Medical Assessions Review Pilot. And this is where we're questioning conventions that have constrained us over the years just simply because we know more than we used to, especially with electronic health records. And that is where we used to say, if you have had asthma at any point, you are not eligible. So we questioned all of those working closely, of course, with the medical team to define where we can assume a little less looking at the data to where these people would qualify. And that's brought thousands more in. Good. What about, this is a topic I've been, on that topic, on mental health, right? Right now I know for a fact that certain services, and I've been asking this question through the Armed Services Committee, but we disqualify young men and women some services if they've seen a psychiatrist or if they've been on medicine for mental health. And yet, we want them to try to improve their mental health. How are we thinking about that in a way that would not just say, oh, you were on medicine for six months, you saw a psychiatrist, young high school kid, you're disqualifying? Because then, that's just the wrong message. Is there anything going to lie or they're going to not seek help? There's, as Mr. Constable said, there are a lot of things that we have looked to re-evaluate that we're trying to work with the services to expand that. Is that one? I believe it is one. You know, one of the things that we are trying to do within the military is destigmatize mental health. The Secretary says all the time, mental health is health. We want people to come forward when they need, to feel the need they need to talk to somebody or they need to see a professional. You know, we don't want them to, you know, you used to almost be if you said you had a problem and they would just automatically take your security clearance away or ground you from flying the aircraft. We don't want that to be the case anymore. We've been working hard to change that and to make it, you know, so that people will come forward and deal with their health issues. Good. Thank you. Senator Blumenthal? Yeah, thank you very much, Madam Chair. I want to follow up on exactly that question. Because frankly, I can well envision you'd rather have someone who sought help than someone who denied the need for it. Said I'm fine, but I want to shoot up a classroom or whatever and is not going to talk about that when they come to a recruiter. So you say you're working hard. What are you doing and what's your timetable for specific steps? And I'm not here to sort of put you on the spot, but I would like a written response with specifics as to what you are doing to change those qualifications and on what basis for mental health. Because I think the question raised by Senator Sullivan is absolutely critical. Yes, Senator, we can provide you with that. But you know, there are some great programs that the services had that they implemented. One I always like to talk about is the Air Force in the North where they put in counselors within their squadrons to provide them, you know, individuals to talk to when they need counseling or just to talk about different issues. That's for active duty members. Yes. But what about the recruits who will come to see the Marine Corps Recruiting Officer or the Navy Recruiting Officer and say, yeah, I had, I went for help. What happens to that person? Well, Senator, like I said, we can provide you with that written response. I can turn it over to Dr. Martinez Lopez who might be able to comment on that. But we are working with the services. We are working with them to try and expand. We were able to come to agreement on 38 different issues, whether it be asthma or whether it be ADHD. Okay, I don't have time to hear about all of that. I want to focus on mental health because mental health, as the Secretary has said, should be regarded the same as physical health. So if somebody broke a leg and they said, yeah, I broke a leg. I played football. You know, I was out for six months. I'm fine now. You would take them. If someone says, yeah, I had a problem. I went to see a shrink and it really helped. That's the kind of story that should be regarded in the same way. But I want to relate this issue to a very specific one and that is the suicides of sailors on the U.S. George Washington. Three sailors died by suicide while that ship was undergoing maintenance and repairs. One of them was Xavier Sander from Connecticut. His dad has been pummeling the Department of Defense for information about what is being done to better the conditions of sailors when their ship is not at sea, when it's being repaired. He was forced to live on the ship while it was being repaired, like living in an apartment that's being renovated. He couldn't sleep. He was in bad shape and he didn't get help. The Department of Defense is doing an investigation or an inquiry. Do you have the results? Senator, we don't have the results to the inquiry or the investigation that the Navy is doing. I believe that's still ongoing. I believe that would be a better question for the Navy in the second panel as to what they're doing and the improvements that they're trying to make for the ship. My understanding is that the report has been finished and that it's under review. Can you tell me why it hasn't been made available to the father of a young man who lost his life? Senator, I can't do that right now. I haven't seen the report myself. Can you look into it? We can see what we can do. We can take that for the record. But I believe, again, that would be a better question for the Navy as to where they are with that report and what are they looking into. And they say it's under review. We're coming up on the one year anniversary of his death, April 15. And for all you've said about you're paying attention to this issue of mental health, by the way, these three sailors are not the only ones. There have been other suicides on other ships, similarly situated in home ports for repair or maintenance. This is a specific kind of circumstance where you're losing life in real time. So to wait a year for a report makes no sense to me. Senator, we know any loss of life through suicide or through any means is a terrible tragedy and it does weigh heavily on our military family. But I'm sorry that I don't have the answers for you. The wire that report is still under review. Again, we can take that for the record and try and get you a better answer. My time is over and I just want to ask you to commit that you will provide someone to meet with John Sander. We lost his son to suicide on the USS Washington when he comes down because I'm going to invite him down and I want him to be able to meet someone in defense. Will you make someone available? Senator, we'll try and see what we can do to make someone available to meet the individual. Thank you. Senator Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair. Secretary Cisneros, good to see you. Thank you for being here. Last year we discussed the implementation of section 704 of the NDAA. We passed in 2021, otherwise known as the Brandon Act, which improves the ability of service members to quickly obtain medical mental health care. It also reduces stigma and provides needed training. The Brandon Act is named for fall in the United States Navy petty officer, third class Brandon Caserta of Peoria, Arizona. He was a dedicated young seller. He did all the right things as he was trying to deal with his mental health issues. And he suffered some significant mental health problems. He was discouraged and ridiculed and then tragically took his own life. I've been working closely with Brandon's parents, Terry and Patrick on this issue. They were in my office just about a week ago and we share serious concerns about the suicide epidemic as does Senator Blumenthal and Senator Sullivan and I'm sure everybody on this committee. We need to use every tool that we have to fight this challenge. And one of those tools is the Brandon Act that was in the defense bill last year. So now I know we've spoken about this before, but I'm concerned there haven't been visible signs of progress on implementing the Brandon Act. And I've raised this with you and service secretaries in the past and last year I added to the defense bill a requirement for a formal progress report on DOD's implementation efforts. That was due on March 1st, I think today is the 15th. So Secretary Cisneros, why has the committee not yet received your implementation report as required by the defense bill? And are there any updates that you can provide to me today about what actions the department is taking to implement the requirements of the Brandon Act? Senator, thank you for that question. And as we stated earlier, any death by suicide is definitely a tragedy and it really does weigh heavily on our military family and we are trying to make improvements. Congress has really kind of given the stability with the Suicide Prevention Independent Review Commission that we were able to complete at the end of last year. We can have Ms. Foster kind of talk about that a little if you like, but we are making progress on the Brandon Act and to do that and to talk about it I'll turn it over to Dr. Martínez Lopez who can kind of give you an update on that, sir. Senator, thank you for the question. We need to honor Brandon Caserta. There's no question about that. And the best way to honor is through your putting into effect the law. I'm new at the job, been there for three weeks, but I can tell you that the long call on the tent was the issue of the law brought everybody, including the individual ready to reserve that have no command and control. So we were trying to figure out how to implement the law including all the service members. So I recommend that and I think we're moving forward what we're going to do first is going to break the active duty and let's go, we can move in that axis right away. And then as we come out with a solution set for the reserve components, those have command and command structure next and then the IRR because there's issues of care and there's a lot of... So we're moving, I guess... Mr. Secretary, you're talking about how the Brandon Act will be implemented. Yes, sir. But my first question was we were supposed to get a progress report on the implementation and that certainly could be what you said here, could have been in the progress report. We were supposed to receive that on March 1st. We're now two weeks past that. We've not received it. So when could we expect the report on the progress of the implementation? Senator, we started talking to the staff hopefully very soon in the next month or so you're going to see the report coming to you of how we, hopefully before that, of how we're implementing the Act. But I've just gave you the scope of how we're approaching it. So in a month or two we could expect the progress report on the implementation. Yes, sir. All right, you talked a little bit about the implementation. So I'm interested in seeing that and in detail about what are we doing to make sure that what we passed in legislation, how it's going to be implemented, anything else you might need from us, you could add that as well. And because this is such a serious issue. I mean it's not only in the Navy. I mean in DOD, this is a major problem. It's affecting readiness. But that's not the reason to do it. I mean the reason to implement this is it's the right thing to do and it will save people's lives. So thank you. Thank you. Senator Cain. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ranking Member Scott and to the witnesses for being here. I just want to pick up on Senator Kelly's on the Brandon Act because this occurred in Virginia. I've also met with the Cassurdas and just, you know, to put a really fine point on this. They've lost their child under unimaginably horrific circumstances. They are turning that grief into an effort to try to do something to help others. If we pass a law but do not implement it, it's a revictimization of a family that doesn't deserve to be revictimized. They will view that as yet another. Yet another pain that they are suffering at the hands of the United States military. So this is, this needs to be done because we have a significant challenge and I'm going to get into another dimension of this but it also needs to be done so that a family that has already suffered doesn't suffer more. So I just echo what Senator Kelly said. We need to see that report about implementation. We need to see it soon. We need to understand that this is not some box checking thing that people are doing just to appease us but you're doing it to meet a need that is a very significant one. I've recently had two strings of really difficult suicides within the Navy in Hampton Roads, Virginia. So just in one community. Sailors aboard the George Washington who trained for an MOS and thought they would be doing something but instead because the George Washington has been in this limited duty status for so long, many of them are there and will have their whole career while the ship's getting refurbed. Not doing what they thought they might do. A sense of purposelessness can grow that can exacerbate other challenges. The living situations for folks when their ships are in dry dock getting refurbed aren't necessarily the best. Then we had four suicides within a space of five months with five weeks within a space of five weeks with sailors who had been assigned to the mid-Atlantic Regional Maintenance Center in Norfolk. This is a center, one of seven or eight in the United States, that they're kind of like MacGyver's. It's a really great mission where they take things off ships and subs that are busted instead of paying millions to do something new. They can figure out a way to fix it and get it back on. It's an important mission. But it's a very unusual in the way it's been composed. Of the 2,500 people who work at Marmot, half are civilians who are under contract. They know how long they're going to be there. For sailors, of the sailors, half have been assigned to the mission but half were assigned there under a limited duty status. Maybe they were pregnant, maybe they broke a bone, maybe they had a disciplinary issue and so they were pulled out of the fleet and assigned there and most of that nearly 600 people in the limited duty status at Marmot they have no idea when they're going back to the fleet. They may be in a med board process that is completely opaque and they don't have a sense of when it will be over. That then builds up some sense of purposelessness when you don't know what your next step is and you don't know when you'll know. You not only don't know but you don't know when you'll know then that can also contribute to significant mental health challenges and that's why no surprise those four suicides in this workforce of 2,500 it wasn't civilians, it wasn't the sailors that were assigned there for a traditional tour. There was all people within this limited duty population who were living in a world of kind of big question mark about what would happen to them. So I guess I'd like to ask particularly to begin with the Navy when we have members of the armed services who are assigned into limited duty status what can we do to make sure that they have support they need while they're in that status because there was no embedded mental health professions professionals in this workforce of 2,500 even though 600 of them were on a limited duty status each one different from the next each one with a lot of questions about their future what can we do with our limited duty to provide them the services they need. Senator, thank you for that and you know again as the secretary says all the time mental health is health and we want to ensure that we're taking care of our service members that have needs I'll turn it over to Dr. Martinez Lopez here but you know any service member that needs to see a physician can always go and talk and it's not just you know whether it's the people that need to seek mental health right we have counselors where people are having financial problems if they're having relationship problems the individuals are there for them to go and to talk to but I'll turn it over to Dr. Martinez Lopez specifically to talk about the mental health and what what individuals need to do in order to seek help. Senator, very good question I think we're taking the approach of a public health approach and you're right on target which is it's not a medical issue it's a public health we all play the commander plays there's financial issues there's social issues there's medical issues and we need to address all of those think about it like a rucksack that has a lot of stuff that is heavy and we need to figure out how to leaven that rucksack so if there's a financial thing that we can do to help that sailor that's one thing if there is a social you know family issue that we can help them with let's go and believe that if it's a legal issue that they're dealing with and by doing that we decrease the risk of that sailor soldier sailor airman marine or guardian that's part of the equation to this conundrum so I think we are in the right track in that respect a lot of work to be done a lot of education is a never ending process but I'm confident that we need to keep sailing in that direction and trying to make headways thank you Madam Chair I think our ranking member has a comment well first off I want Senator Duckworth Senator Budd and I think Senator Kelly I mean they all ask things they would like to be more responsive so I hope you guys will do your best to be more responsive the other thing is we go through the National Defense Authorization Act we're trying to get stuff in there every year and some of it are reports and if you're not going to get a report on time I think the first thing you probably ought to do is tell us why because we're not doing it because we don't care we're doing it because we care so I think if you're not going to get a report I think all of us would like to know it I think this committee is going to actually work to try to figure out how we have people want to serve so I went through what Senator Cain was talking about in dry dock I was in dry dock my ship was in dry dock and you know it's boring it's really boring and it seems like there ought to be a way to send people to training and do things like that rather than just we just sat around and did nothing it wasn't like the ship was at risk I mean here in a dry dock area nobody could get there so they didn't need us to show up and hold a gun every so often but thanks everybody for yeah so I agree I really want to associate myself with the remarks it is very frustrating when we get things into NDAA that's something we've all worked on to make it happen but we don't get answers that's a real problem for all of us so the commitment specifically that Senator Duckworth has extracted and that others have asked for regard that as something the whole committee is behind and we expect her to get her answers in a timely fashion we're going to do a second round with this panel for those of us who want to do second round of questions I want to do a second round are you good? so we've got two more rounds and then we'll go to the second panel that we've got here so the US military should have the best doctors in the entire world in a crisis these are the medical professionals who are on the front lines but unlike doctors who are at a really busy place like Mass General or Boston Medical Center military doctors don't have a constant stream of service members with serious injuries coming in the front door now it's a good thing that fewer service members are suffering serious injury but it is also a problem for the doctors because it means they get less practice stitching people up or setting broken bones or doing emergency surgery to repair gunshot wounds one of the key ways that military doctors and surgeons maintain their skills is by treating civilians at military treatment facilities or MTFs now Dr. Martinez Lopez how does DOD benefit from treating civilian patients thank you very much senator that's a that's extremely important to us away from the standpoint of readiness we need to keep all the docs and all the nurses it's not just the docs it's a whole team that has to be sharp by taking care of civilians we do two things one is the readiness piece but also the good neighbor piece I mean like in San Antonio if there is an emergency and they show up in our doorsteps we have the good neighbor responsibility to provide good care to them too but so we need to as you said we need to bring about more patients especially trauma patients and we San Antonio is the perfect place where we do world-class burn care and also trauma care and hopefully we never have to use those abroad but if we do our team will be ready to deploy and do that right so so we want you to be sharp and we want you to have the chance to train as a team on an ongoing basis what should be able to be designated as trauma centers because your level is that high in terms of your practice in other words treating civilians for the military to treat civilians is supposed to be a win-win the civilian patient gets world-class care and military doctors stay up to date on their skills it is not working out so well for patients most of them are dropped off at the MTF in an ambulance because they need emergency treatment and the MTF is the best closest option two-thirds of civilians who end up in MTF care do not have any insurance the military treatment facility sticks these patients with massive bills and if the cost isn't waived federal law requires aggressive debt collection including garnishing patients wages or seizing tax refunds or even taking 15% of their social security checks before it even reaches their pockets now the good news is the DOD now has authority to waive these debts Dr. Martinez Lopez over the last 5 years military treatment facilities treated almost 30,000 civilian emergency patients for how many of those 30,000 patients did DOD exercise its authority to waive civilian medical debt keeping in mind that most folks do not have insurance ma'am a very small number I think 57 57 that's exactly right 57 times DOD waived medical debt out of 30,000 people who came in and incurred these debts you know so DOD is actually waving debt I tried to work this out in about 0.2% of the cases but nobody claimed that there were numbers low because waiver authority was too narrow that the debt could only be waived if there was quote direct and compelling relationship to a priority DOD objective not just that someone can't pay so to address this problem Representative Castro and I got an amendment into the 2021 NDAA some of you remember this to expand DOD's authority to waive medical bills our changes clarified that if medical treatment for civilians will enhance military medical readiness overall and if the patient is unable to pay DOD has legal authority just to tear up the bill Dr. Martinez Lopez how often has DOD exercised this expanded authority to waive costs for civilians when the treatment will enhance readiness and is unable to pay Ma'am I don't know for sure but I don't think we've done many if any so it kind of looks like zero right now look DOD is dragging its feet on while these patients are toppling into financial ruin the GAO also found that DOD wasn't telling patients that they had an option for relief as required by DOD's own regulations and they weren't properly tracking people when they had or had not paid their bills so Dr. Martinez Lopez on this new notion that we're really going to start holding people accountable in this committee can I have your commitment that you're going to clean this up start wiping out medical debts for civilians who shouldn't have been hit with those devastating bills to begin with and you're going to get back to me on this Senator I don't want to put more burden and my colleagues are in the same boat on patients that already have been traumatized that's not what we're in I mean this and worse they cannot even pay so why do we want to keep adding insults to many of those so we thank you for this waiver as I understand right now we're stuck into the rulemaking we're trying to figure out how can I expedite that rulemaking to give the solution said that you want and we want so I commit that I work hard to get through the process in DOD and start you know affecting in a nice way the patients that we care for I understand your heart is in the right place I'm not quarreling with your heart so I'm going to ask for the same thing that Senator Duckworth asked for can you get back to me in four weeks and at least lay out what the plan is to make certain that patients are fully informed about the opportunity to have their debts wiped out and what DOD's plan is to implement what we all work to put into the law in 2021 I will get back to you mom four weeks just to tell me what the plan is I'm not even asking you for the final report just tell me what the plan is I'll be glad to talk to your staff or yourself in four weeks okay we got it Secretary Duckworth oh job assistant secretary VA oh job thank you Madam Chair service members commit their lives to defend our country and they should not struggle to feed their families yet in July of 2022 the DOD released an updated report that found that 24% of all active duty service members experienced some level of food insecurity in 2020 and 2021 without junior enlisted facing the highest risk that's why I introduced a bipartisan military family nutrition access act last month this bill eliminates basic allowance for housing from income calculations under the SNAP program so right now if you apply for SNAP they count your BAH as income even though other programs like Medicaid and the IRS doesn't consider your BAH to be income by using an already established nutrition assistance program and simply updating the treatment of BAH so it is in line with other federal assistance programs will expand nutrition access to more military families so that they can qualify for SNAP benefits under Secretary Cisneros Assistant Secretary Skelly do you consider food insecurity and a lack of access to nutrition among a significant percentage of military families to be a readiness issue remember your own reports of 24% Secretary I think food insecurity is definitely an issue and that's something that we are working hard to to help resolve you know the secretary put out a series of memos kind of addressing different things about taking care of our people one of them was around food insecurity and it was about kind of really trying to provide you know the research that we have kind of shows that where a lot of this happens is when PCS happens service members are their families that have to move the spouse usually has to give up a job that puts a burden or puts a financial strain on the families and kind of makes the food insecurity where maybe they're not getting good quality healthy food all the time there until they're able to get new a new employment but this is something that we are working on we are working to try and ensure that spouses have access to employment whether it be through just being able to transfer if they have a job within DoD or other federal government agencies and being able to remote work or telework or partnering with over 600 companies that have made a commitment to hiring spouses as well to relieve some of the strain but we definitely see it as an impact and as an awareness issue when families do have struggle to help provide their families with healthy meals would you support increasing greater access to SNAP benefits for military families as would be granted by my act basically this says for when you apply for SNAP do not consider BAH as income because no other part of federal government does either ma'am I it sounds very interesting but I would have to look at the legislation and your proposal before we make any commitment to that okay well we will get you to that in less than six months my next question Assistant Secretary Martinez Lopez I know that you've only been in your seat for a short time welcome I was in Japan and Indonesia last month to discuss a wide range of issues with our partners including energy security economic engagement and people to people academic exchanges however while I was in Japan I heard from DOD civilians about the struggles that they are now facing accessing health care due to a rules change at their local military treatment facilities what is being done by your office to resolve these issues in Japan Senator thank you very much I think the health care of not only the service members and their families is important also the civilians that help us is a team I think we have grown that piece of the team larger and larger not only overseas but giving more opportunities to civilians to help us in this so we have compensated along the NTFs are just the four structures just to take care of the active duty and the family members so what we do is we increase efficiencies of those clinics to see create space available to then see the civilians and I we haven't changed the policy it's the same policy that's been standing for many years so what we have done is we increase working hard to increase the efficiency of those clinics so more space available will be for the civilians but that's just a band-aid so what I heard from them is actually the opposite that they have recently that they were being seen at the facilities and the facilities that actually turned around and said no we're not going to see you anymore you go out on into the economy in Tokyo and find your own doctors and not that they're not great doctors in Tokyo but frankly with language capacities they are now no longer able to access health care ma'am senator if I may I went to Japan recently I did five town halls heard mainland Japan and Okinawa talking about this issue as Dr. Martinez has stated our policy hasn't changed the civilians and the contractors have always been seen on a space available basis what we had done was we had kind of sent out a message through DHA to the health agency is because we were hearing that from our service members and from their families is that they were having trouble getting appointments and they are our top priority there but what we've done as Dr. Martinez has stated is we've asked the MTFs there in Japan to maximize their efficiencies to open up so that it's available so that those those that are seen on a space available will have more of a chance to go and to get that access and to get that health care as well you'll be doing this around the world for all of our DOD civilians as we're looking at I think Japan is what we learned is very unique the cultural differences there as the way they provide health care as to what we're used for the language barrier creates a big it's a big challenge there and so but it is something that we are looking at my deputy was just recently in Germany looking at some of the same issues but the space A available is everywhere throughout the that's everywhere throughout the Department of Defense it's not just specific to Japan but we are working to go and increase and to see what we can do to provide other opportunities whether it's providing a clinic through AFIS that could see patients partnering with an organization like we do with our defense with our service members make an organization available that will help them seek the health care that they need out in the community like we do for our service members when we don't have access to that type of health care and they need a certain type of health care and we just can't provide it at that location could you have your point? we need to wrap this up thank you I appreciate all of you being here Ms. Foster, Secretary Kelly I appreciate your being here even though any questions didn't come to you the first panel is excused and we'd like to bring up the second panel please I'm on that letter with her about Japan all three everybody ready? good thank you all for being here so our second panel consists of assistant secretaries of the military departments for manpower and reserve affairs and each of our witnesses is going to do a brief opening statement I believe can I start with you Ms. Schaefer Assistant Secretary of the Army are you ready? good Chairwoman Warren Ranking Member Scott distinguished members of this subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you on behalf of the men and women of the United States Army at the end of December 2022 the Senate confirmed me to be the Assistant Secretary of the Army for manpower and reserve affairs and I joined an amazing Army team that works tirelessly every day to improve the lives of our soldiers and civilians and families I bring both deep and broad expertise to my current position as well as a renewed emphasis on leveraging data and analysis to assess the effectiveness of our policies and programs to better target our resources in alignment with the Secretary of the Army's main six objectives between my previous position as a senior advisor to the current Deputy Secretary of Defense and my 16 years at RAND supporting the Department of Defense through research and analysis my focus every day for years has been on improving our Army's readiness to meet the objectives of our national security strategy and to improve the lives of our active and reserve component members and their families in my current role these continue to be my focus in the service of our soldiers, civilians and their families my three priorities are readiness including quality of life and prevention of harmful behaviors manning the Army of 2030 and the strategic modernization of our personnel policies, processes and systems across the entire spectrum of our Army people's strategy readiness ensures that we have the ability to protect combat power whenever wherever it is required manning the Army of 2030 requires not only the new weapons systems and doctrines to succeed in the future of warfare but also the people who have the appropriate skills and competencies for tomorrow, not just today strategic modernization includes how we recruit and hire how we grow, employ and manage talent and how we create a workplace culture that enables people to thrive and want to expand their careers in the Army the Army's mission remains unchanged to fight and win our nation's wars we are building the Army of 2030 and in doing so taking care of our people because they are the foundation of our great Army and our number one priority the future of multi-domain operations requires highly trained agile and resilient personnel across the total force active guard, reserve and civilians people perform the best when they are part of cohesive teams founded on treating everyone with dignity and respect all of the Army's personnel programs and initiatives are focused on this because we lead with our values and in doing so is essential to the readiness required to accomplish our mission Chairwoman, ranking member and members of the subcommittee thank you for your unwavering bipartisan support of our outstanding soldiers civilians and their families I look forward to our discussion questions today as well as continuing this conversation in the future thank you very much Secretary Parker representing the Navy no Navy stop that I just want to point out my brother's Air Force Army so thank you Chairwoman Mormon, ranking member Scott and distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for allowing me to join you here today I am honored by this opportunity to talk about our Department of the Navy sailors, Marines civilians and their families as the 2022 national security strategy makes clear we face unpredictable threats and global challenges our nation needs a strong well-trained well-equipped Navy and Marine Corps to address the wide array of challenges and threats and we must leverage our talent to retain both our competitive edge and our multi-domain dominance our changing strategic landscape demands we maintain and strengthen our nation's maritime dominance so our forces can deter, fight and win against potential adversaries as an integrated team demonstrating talent, capabilities and dedication second to none together our sailors, Marines and civilians can overcome any challenges they face our people are our greatest strength and a core to our success both as a military and as a nation I am incredibly proud of their performance commitment and unparalleled resilience in the face of the dynamic global challenges that have become our present operating environment our nation needs a strong, well-trained well-equipped Navy and Marine Corps to address the wide array of challenges and threats facing our nation to be a combat-ready force we must leverage the strengths of all our people further because we have an all-volunteer force we must ensure that all civilians of our society see value in serving and are treated with respect when doing so in our constantly evolving environment we must continue to invest in mechanisms that ensure the services are positioned to meet their recruitment goals however we do have some challenges a general decrease in propensity to serve in several years of the COVID-19 pandemic limited both student attendance and recruiter access to schools making it difficult for our recruiters to make and maintain contact with potential recruits the Secretary of the Navy is personally involved in addressing these challenges as part of these efforts we have engaged with leadership from the Department of Education for support with school access we also contact the principals who have restricted recruiter access to their schools through these and other efforts we seek to ensure our services have what they need to meet their recruiting goals in addition to recruiting the Navy and Marine Corps team remains committed to retaining the right talent and experience which also complements our recruiting efforts we will explore every lever within our authority to maximize retention and we are already seeing positive trends in retention rates across both services over the course of the last year the Department of the Navy has made significant strides to assess how education is delivered to the force and modernize our educational objectives today's Navy and Marine Corps team is one of the most technologically advanced ever conceived able to dominate in the air, sea and undersea as we become more technologically advanced force education will be a crucial war fighting enabler through our naval university system we are creating a continuum of learning that develops leaders to serve at every level and equip them with skills to maintain and operate increasingly complex systems in an ever changing war fighting environment we are well aware of the fundamental link between mental health, resiliency and the readiness of our force to supporting and ensuring the mental health, safety and well-being of all sailors, Marines and Department of Navy civilians suicide is a national issue to which the military services are not immune given the complexity of this challenge our office of force resiliency has taken a comprehensive approach to holistic data driven suicide prevention efforts that harmonize with the defense strategy for suicide prevention we have also taken note of the recently released report from the suicide prevention and response independent review committee and will work within DoD's coordination framework to implement key recommendations the Department of the Navy is committed to eliminating sexual assault within the Navy and Marine Corps at every level in addition to the toll rod and individual victims sexual assault directly impacts our cohesion our unit cohesion and ultimately undercuts our readiness sexual assault is a persistent challenge that requires a multi pronged approach that leverages a wide range of initiatives not only to address sexual assault but also to prevent it Secretary Del Toro directed the establishment of an implementation advisory panel last spring bringing the leaders of all Department of Navy principal offices to the table to implement the recommendations of the Secretary of Defense's independent review commission on sexual assault through this effort the Department of the Navy has made significant strides to implement the IRC recommendations though we fully recognize additional work remains further to those efforts we are investing significant resources to fuel the necessary changes and we have made substantial progress in standing up a dedicated workforce to prevent harmful behaviors professionalize the response to sexual assault and best support survivor recovery twally of life issues are critical to our service members and their families the stresses on our spouses and children weigh on the minds of our service members especially when they are deployed by caring for our families we enable our service members to continue their focus on the war fighting mission to this end we have taken action to implement increases in parental leave support spousal licensing and career advancement and expand dependent care support in early childhood access additionally we are pushing to end food insecurity among our most junior sailors and Marines through access to financial literacy tools and other forms of support regardless of the challenge the Department of the Navy's sailors, Marines and civilians consistently answer the call they step forward and perform superbly in our country's times of greatest need time and again our Navy and Marine Corps team has invariably risen to meet all challenges and defend our nation bonded together by almost 250 years of tradition and an unwavering deep-seated sense of duty to our country I look forward to working with you to ensure our efforts meaningfully and effectively support the well-being of our sailors, Marines, civilians and their families and that we always best position them to fulfill their vital roles for our nation and we need to be here today and I stand ready to answer your questions Thank you Secretary Parker Secretary Wagner representing the Air Force Chairman Warren Ranking Member Scott distinguished members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and thank you for your continued support for our airmen, our guardians and their families I'm looking forward to working with both of you and continue the work with your terrific staff I'm proud not only of the adaptability but also the tenacity of our force as current world events such as pandemic recovery inflation and a return to great power competition pose ever-evolving challenges for our nation in order to recruit and retain a lethal expert and resilient force the DAF needs our partners on the hill to help us tell our story to the American people and showcase both the unique missions of military service but also the unique value of military life we're implementing the vision of the Secretary of Defense outlined in his Taking Care of People initiative but have also gone further in important areas like childcare and spouse unemployment our members need to know that we're doing everything we can to take care of and support their loved ones that also means providing a competitive compensation package housing and education benefits and quality healthcare I believe we've made progress in this respect as validated by our 90% retention rate but I acknowledge we must do more to promote resilience and prevent those harmful behaviors that are counter to our values undermine our team and diminish our readiness in particular sexual violence will not be tolerated, condoned or ignored within our ranks and those that breach that trust will be held accountable finally I want to talk about the recruiting challenge that the DAF and the other services have been facing the Air Force is currently projected to miss its enlisted active component recruiting goals for the first time since 1999 there are multiple factors that have made recruiting challenging including historically low unemployment strong private sector wage growth and a lack of access to high schools exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic however the most important factor propensity to serve is the lowest we've seen in decades but what does that really mean it starts with a lack of familiarity Secretary Cisnero said in an earlier panel in 1995 40% of Americans had a parent who served but today that number is less than 13% after 9-11 military installations became more hardened and more secure but it also further separated those who serve those whom they protect that lack of familiarity has been filled in by a public narrative that emphasizes the risks of service while missing the benefits the DAF is taking steps to address this issue by opening up opportunities for communities to visit our bases sharing inspiring and authentic stories of service members and highlighting the stakes of our high tech mission and our competitors but the department can't do this alone and we need your help Congress has a critical oversight function of the military but we also need to enhance our partnership to increase propensity to serve you are an important voice to your constituents to the young people, to the parents and to the influencers that can help shape the next generation of service by elevating opportunities and highlighting the benefits of our values and our team now 50 years into an all volunteer force we must be able to reach all communities of America geographic and demographic to ensure we recruit the brightest and the best you can't be it if you can't see it every person in America's air and space forces play a critical role in ensuring that this organization is prepared to meet the challenges of today and tomorrow and in particular our pacing challenge we're excited to partner with you and to rebuild this relationship with the American people together and with that I look forward to your questions thank you so I'm going to ask the first round of questions here the junior reserve officer training core or the JROTC is a DOD funded program for middle school students that is designed to teach students the value of citizenship and public service schools hire and oversee the instructors and then the military services that train and pay part of the salaries for the instructors who are all retired service members DOD and the Department of Education share oversight for the program but there's some pretty serious gaps in that oversight a recent New York Times investigation found that at least 33 JROTC instructors have been criminally charged with sexual misconduct I started my own investigation with Senators Blumenthal Gillibrand and Horono in response to this alarming situation and found that there were at least 114 allegations of abuse over the past decade now when the services learned about these 114 cases they did the right thing and suspended or fired the instructor but I am worried that we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg Secretary Shaffer the Army has the largest JROTC program of all the military services so let me start by asking you one of the main ways that we track whether we're making progress on military sexual assault is an annual report is there any kind of formal annual reporting on instances of sexual assault and harassment in the JROTC program Senator Warren thank you for your question this is an issue that deeply concerns me as well there is an annual my understanding is there's an annual report but it has not had that tracking in it yet there's no the annual report I'm asking about is there a report tracking the instances of sexual assault so yeah there is a report it has not tracked sexual assault yet my office has directed it before I came in in December my office directed that we include that in the report that already but you're now trying to put this in okay that's good it's a good thing another tool recommended by experts for tracking this type of problem is a survey that allows individuals to anonymously report instances of sexual harassment or abuse does the army have that kind of survey for JROTC I'm not aware of it but I can look into it and I agree that that might be a good thing you'll find the answer is no on that so let me ask the other services annual report Secretary Parker Chairwoman Moreman there is no annual report Secretary Wagner Chairwoman there is an annual report it's called the DEOX for military folks and for DOD civilians these are employees of schools JROTC instructors are school employees the students are obviously students and so the optic of the military asking a survey I'm not asking that what I'm asking is do you have an annual report that records how many people reported sexual assault against your folks who were in the JROTC program the Air Force JROTC program office tracks this extremely closely so if I request that annual report you'll get a copy of it and it will show me how many people reported incidences of sexual harassment or assault I can't say it's a formal report what I can say is I have seen a list of every single incident and the disposition over the last five years so the answer to my question about is there an annual report is that a yes or a no as far as I'm aware we don't have an actual annual report and do you do a survey Secretary Parker no we do not do a survey and Secretary Wagner Senator we don't do a survey but we do provide a number of mechanisms for either parents or students to report incidents if you're serious about sexual assault and sexual harassment these are the two best tools that we know we have available and I'm asking the question are the military services doing it I'm hearing from Secretary Schaefer that she's starting with the Army I'm not hearing it from the Navy I'm not hearing it from the Air Force and I'm asking all three of you using the second tool and that is surveys and I'm hearing the answer is reporting or just starting some annual reporting no surveys in other words there's no real way for the DOD or the services to have the kind of information they need to exercise basic oversight you've got to start with knowing what's going on and we know the problems with these surveys we know that people under report we know they under report formally we know they under reported surveys but you've got to at least start there you know one of the biggest problems that we have come to light in these investigations is also that some of the instructors who abused these students had done it before for at least seven of the instructors that we know about who were eventually criminally charged it turns out that students had already raised concerns with the school before the incident that got these instructors arrested so let me start there with a paper if colleges fail to report public safety issues like sexual assault the department of education can find them under the Cleary Act or even strip them of all federal funding there are serious consequences for failure to report so let's ask about DOD accountability if schools fail to report or stop this behavior in JROTC programs does DOD have any mechanism for saying you no longer get to operate a JROTC program my understanding is that it's the responsibility of the schools to report any of these I know and I'm asking when school falls down on that responsibility if this were the department of education the department of education actually has tools to use to say you're going to pay consequences if you fail to report because we all understand nobody wants to report this stuff and the schools that are responsible certainly don't want to report this so I'm asking is there anything in the army JROTC program that will tell a school if you fail to report there will be consequences again I'm not aware of that but I can look into it for you I'm going to take that as a no unless you tell me something different Secretary Parker how about the Navy I am not aware that there's a specific trigger I'll take that as a no Secretary Wagner Senator Warren the memorandum of agreement between Air Force ROTC and each school has specific requirements I'm not asking about the requirements I'm asking about whether there are consequences if the school just keeps its mouth shut if the school violates and consistently violates the memorandum of agreement then the school will be decertified have you ever decertified a school I'll have to look into that but you say you actually have a mechanism we have a mechanism okay so we've got this on sexual assault very disturbing findings and sexual harassment there's one other thing I want to cover very quickly and that is recent investigations have also found dozens of schools have four students to participate in the JROTC program against their will parents have to sign a permission slip for a kid to go to the museum on a field trip the notion that thousands of students are forced to participate in JROTC programs is just out of line with the program's values Secretary Schaefer with the Army support requiring JROTC programs to certify that their units are made up only of students who have provided informed consent to participate well we certainly don't condone forced enforcement of this and that may be an option so perhaps a way to certify that that is the case Secretary Parker how would the Navy feel about that Senator Warren I believe that's something we would be willing to consider and Secretary Wagner absolutely with your force we should have an all volunteer JROTC I think we should all be able to agree on that if the military doesn't step up and prevent these kinds of abuses then you endanger our ability to continue programs that build our force for the future this is your reputation on the line here and I hope you will work with me to get some procedures in place to make this program a safe program for all of our kids thank you Senator Scott, ranking member Scott so thank you Secretary Wagner first off thanks for being here one thing you guys watched the earlier panel anything that's required under the NDAA if you'll just make sure you let us know where you are in the process because it can't be a lot of fun to be up here and then somebody asks you why you didn't do it so if you could make sure you let us know where you are and anything that's required under the NDAA so that would be helpful Secretary Wagner, space force just celebrates third birthday last December I think a lot of us are concerned that many Americans don't really understand why don't do space force or why our national security matters in space what are you doing to raise the profile of the space force introduce the unique missions of guardians to the America's youth private sector commercial space industry especially my great state of Florida ranking member Scott I'm excited to talk about the US space force three years in the emission is incredibly important it helps every day protect not only our modern way of war but more importantly our modern way of life we're excited to continue to work with Congress to develop a proposal to manage talent in the space force very differently than we have in the rest of the military departments and you'll be seeing a legislative proposal on that topic in order to allow us to access a different type of talent and to have a talent process where we're able to have better permeability between full time and part time guardians and we can do that for two reasons one because of the small size of the space force but also because of the ability to attract high tech STEM talent we're focused on building brand identity because frankly the American people really don't understand what the space force is or what they do and so we're committing this year to spend 12 million dollars on building that brand identity principally with influencers you know the space force today is meeting its recruiting mission but we're concerned about the future finally in the era of propensity we need to access a greater variety of talent and as I said manage them differently and in order to access that specialized STEM talent we need to take on new approaches and try some new things I think the space force is leading the way and I think to get to your question folks who have the ability to look at the option of military service today differently than maybe one would have looked in the past where it's a full career today being able to talent manage and say I'm going to go take a couple of years off to focus on making sure my kids get into college or raising them at a certain time or take care of a sick parent those are some of the things that we're looking at in order to allow people to plan their careers differently see themself and see themself serving in a different way that we could have done before Thank you, Secretary Schaefer the armies as you know and so I think you guys have relied more on retaining how does that impact the readiness of the army Thank you for your question so I think that this really is a end strength is sort of a three legged stool as we think about it so we have a sessions attrition and retention and our retention is historically high right now which is wonderful and I think that somebody mentioned it in the earlier panel that once we get them through the door they want to stay so we are really focused on addressing the civilian military divide that we talked about my sense is it keeps getting wider and deeper I think there's in the army in particular there's a sort of historical piece to this as well it's a lot of our installations in the northern part of the country so our biggest recruiting tool is somebody walking down the street in uniform and talking to people about their experiences and they just don't see that in the northern part of the country or know somebody who has in the military in general and I think that creates a huge knowledge as well as cultural gap that we need to fill so along with what Secretary Wagner mentioned we too are looking at this I'm bringing my Rand lens to this and thinking about all of the complaints that I have heard over the years from service members and a lot of it is it's too hard to serve in many instances that's what I keep hearing and it's modernizing these systems we have a post industrial personnel system and it's those annoying things that people are sort of working through and I want to make sure that we don't lose people because of those annoying things so that we can bolster and keep that retention piece high as we try to bridge this gap across the civil and military divide on the recruiting side thank you Secretary Senator Blumenthal I'm promoting everybody today Senator Blumenthal Thank you Secretary Parker I had a dialogue with Secretary I don't know whether you were in the room at the time so you know that I asked about the sailors on the USS in particular Xavier Sandor it's a Connecticut family the others are from elsewhere in the United States in addition there are others who have committed suicide is there a report and when will it be released Senator Blumenthal thank you very much I was present for your prior comments and I appreciate your concern and advocacy on this point I am familiar with the report that is the phase two report from the GW investigation this one pertains to quality of service I believe this is the report that you're referring to and so this looks really at the quality of service quality of life factors influencing the sailors who died by suicide during that period I understand that report will be released this spring and I commit to you that I will go back and really push for the speediest issuance of that report I'd like to see the report now meaning now why is that not possible Senator I have not seen the report personally myself either but that is something I will take back and see how it goes it's almost a year after Xavier Sandor took his own life I think the family has a right to see that report why, what would you say to the family what would you say to John Sandor John Sandor his son committed suicide almost 11 months the day ago and the Navy still has not given him the facts what would you say to him Senator I have no response that I could give to him that would be sufficient well my response would be I will show him the report ask him to come down and I am going to invite him to come down next week and I would like you to come to a meeting with me in my office and John Sandor will you do that I will Senator and I hope you'll bring the report I will go back and I commit to you I will do my very best Senator but I will be in that meeting next week well you know with all due respect and I know this is not your decision alone so I'm not blaming you personally but I'm a dad two of my sons have served one as a Marine Corps infantry officer in Afghanistan the other is a Navy SEAL and if it were my son I would be I'd be pretty angry so I hope you can be there with the report Senator I look forward to working with you on this issue I will do my very best I will be in that meeting if you desire thank you thank you Senator Lumenthal so I want to thank our witnesses for their service I want to thank you for testifying today I also want to thank John Clark, Gary Leeling Andy Scott, Sophia Kamali John O'Keefe, Katie Magnus and Brendan Gavin for their work in putting together today's hearing I value your contributions and I look forward to working with all of you this hearing makes it clear that we still have a lot of work to do to offer our service members our extended military families and even our civilian employees and the civilians who interact with our military the very best I look forward to working with ranking member Scott as we go forward on a bipartisan basis to do the very best for our people thank you all this hearing is closed thank you John