 Okay, so this panel is about blockchain gaming, Web 3 and blockchain gaming. So we have seen gaming coming off of an age and it has evolved over the years. So I want to touch upon, you know, what is driving the shift towards the blockchain gaming? Any of the panelists? Yeah. So I think Manish has covered a lot of aspects, right? The value was essentially with the publishers or the guys who were building the games. That shift of value to actual users or gamers who are playing, right? That is the key aspect which is driving to Web 3 and blockchain. Obviously, a lot of things are far-fetched. These are early days of Web 3, but I believe, again, the value going actually to the users, somebody has to solve for it and it has to be on a very holistic level. And more or less, people like gamers today spending huge amount of money and time in their life, right? Buying these assets and it's become life these days. Gaming is something which is coming organically to us. It's not just that we are spending time for gaming, it's just that now we need to learn games for socializing or any other reasons. So if it's taking enough time of ours, then it would be rather investing than spending, like Manish mentioned, right? And it has to shift from the point that only few stakeholders in the ecosystem are capturing the value. And it should be delivered to the actual audience which is consuming the gaming content, right? So that sort of element of blockchain is something which Web 3 is sort of promising to everybody and that is why everybody is so excited about blockchain in gaming and it has to play a significant role. Okay, comments from other panelists, your views? Yes, in my point of view, so that is not going to be separate blockchain gaming or anything like that. So I feel like every game will become a blockchain game. Why? Because already there are $200 billion worth of assets in-game assets people are buying, right? It's not a new industry, right? People are buying, but the challenge is like they can't resell that asset and then you can't take that asset out and sell it in somewhere. There is no such kind of technology or marketplace available before, right? This entire $200 billion that people used to buy which is something, you know, it depends on the game inside alone, right? You can't rent that NFTs, you can't market it or you can't take this NFTs to the different game. All this kind of technology is not available before so that's why there is no innovation is happening. So people only depend upon in-game assets, right? If they update a new game, that's it. So whatever you bought and everything is going to be no value after that. So the beauty of this blockchain gaming because of this entire $200 billion of in-game assets, every asset can be NFTs now so that people can buy if they don't like, they can re-trade or else, you know, they can rent it. So all this kind of functionalities are available. So this will create a new market cap. So imagine there's a $200 billion market cap. So if a lot of trades happens between the people, it will become a trillion dollar economy easily. So that is the space we are in. So we have a marketplace called Jump.rade. We launched a cricket game where we got a huge traction. Within eight minutes we sold out 55,000 NFTs. People are trading and selling the assets, playing the game, so renting the assets. All this kind of economy is newly created because of the blockchain game, I feel. Blockchain gaming is going to be everywhere, right? Every game will become a blockchain game after some point. So that is what I think. Even Play Store and App Store are open now to support NFTs. So which is going to create a new market and that is the way I see blockchain gaming. Your views, what has driven the shift in blockchain gaming? Towards the blockchain gaming. So I'm in agreement with my co-panelists and the way Manish summarized it right before this session was like bang on the point, right? What's driving the shift is the ask from the gamers to own their own time and get value for the time that they're inputting in the game. Classic example that I always take is like my favorite game is Battlefield. I've played it for hours and hours, but when I stopped playing or I shifted to another game, whatever I had earned in that game left behind, right? So I'm not going to double down on that point because my panelists have already highlighted it and having this session right after Manish explaining it so nicely, I think that suddenly does not seem like a good idea, but what is, at the same time, you know, completely factoring in the potential it has, like you mentioned about the billion dollar industry it has. At the same time, we need to understand the current drawbacks, right? The Web3 games are not fun to play. Web3 games are not cool, they don't look good. You go there, you play Web3 games just to make money. So at the end of the day, it's a job, it's not fun, it's not engaging, and that is why currently the engagement or the user base is so less. Because AAA games are not going to enter this ecosystem unless the user base increases and the user base won't increase unless the games become fun to play. And hence the whole shift that we are talking about from Web2 to Web3 has to be gradual and has to be in a way that games are built not with the mindset of making money or not with the mindset of integrating it with blockchain. Integration with blockchain and NFTs has to be a subset. Games are supposed to be built with the game designing mindset in mind. You know, games are supposed to be fun. So you have to continue the whole process of building a traditional Web2 game with an added functionality of integrating it with blockchain and NFTs. Currently what we are seeing is most of the games are built with blockchain functionalities and NFTs in mind. And that is where I see there's a big gap which is coming in. Okay, your views? Yeah, so what I believe is in terms of basically taking advantage of the technology and creating the games, another side of something that everyone should focus on, also how to build these communities strong enough, right? And how to spread awareness about the game so that there is an active user base and also there are active small communities who are very passionate about playing these games and making sure that their time is valued enough and they're making money out of it as well. So in terms of building the game, everyone is doing it quite well, but there should be a specific focus towards community building as well because in the end that's what is going to build a long-term relation with the whole gaming ecosystem, right? So that aspect I think companies should also focus on because that is where the scalability factor will come in. Okay, Juliet, I'll come to you in a bit. We also have Piyush with us virtually. Good evening, Piyush. It's been very long you have been waiting. So we were just discussing what is driving the shift towards blockchain gaming, your thoughts? Thank you so much and my apologies, I couldn't be there. I have a personal commitment, so I couldn't travel, but good to meet all of you. And I think after having a crash course from Manish, I think everybody there would probably know what web-tree gaming is or at least would go out and explore because I keep telling Manish that if there's somebody who can build that new stream of gaming in India, it has to be him. So I'm so glad he's shifted and he's doing it. See from our perspective, I think from a definition perspective, everybody has explained it so well that what is the key difference between a web-tree and a web-tree game? How a lot of ownership will shift to players? How you can make money while playing games and eventually even from a development perspective through DAOs, players or fans can actually play a role in games getting better. So I think all of that will evolve over a period of time. The way I see it and something that was very well highlighted in the last point, that the key aspect of a game becoming successful has to be the community building. And a lot of community building happens on the game and most importantly on streaming platforms, which is where Rooter comes in. So for us, it is extremely important that web-tree gaming in India grows much faster than what we have seen. And I think it's a lot to do with how web-tree market in general has performed over the last few months. But overall, the future of gaming is in web-tree. And for us, it is extremely important that we see close to 10 to 20 web-tree games pick up over the next 12 to 18 months. We already partnered in BGG in our earlier days and there earlier days and we saw good traction. And we therefore believe that it's gonna open up a new scheme or a new world of gaming. And for that, a lot of work needs to happen from the developers and as rightly pointed out, the overall experience, all of that needs to improve for sure. But I think we are in the right direction and it's really gonna change a lot as far as gaming is concerned. Okay, all right. Juliette, I want to come to you to ask, yeah. Take the mic. So as you, as an investor, how do you see blockchain gaming space? Okay, actually, I would love to identify like a few major pillars for successful web-tree game in the space and how we usually look at that. So what is the most important? First of all, it all starts from storytelling. Unfortunately, lots of people, they forget that, you know, storytelling is the most important thing within the game. There are so many multiple games. What could make me as an investor or as a player to play this game? This should be something cool, something nobody else is creating, like, you know, cyberpunk or whatever. So it's number one. Number two is the proper strategy. First of all, it's like, what blockchain are you using? How are you using this? Are you gonna use, put on chain, the whole data within the game or are you using blockchain only for external transaction? Because it's all about in-game economy. Then it comes to the tokenomics. Are you gonna have two tokens, governance tokens? Or utility tokens? Or you're okay with one token only? So there are multiple factors everyone need to consider as a strategy within the game. Another, which is, I mean, like, as a mistake, lots of people did, and we actually, we did some kind of mistakes by investing in a few Gameify projects like that. It's a proper budgeting. So we all understand that to build the triple A game, you need to do the proper planning. You need, like, hundreds of developers. You need, like, millions of dollars if you really want to build the proper triple A game. But some people, they thought, okay, we will do, like, a few million dollars race, and we will hire, like, five developers, write some pictures. People will look at the picture like the game, and maybe afterwards we will create this game. Of course, they ended up raising, like, let's say, one million, and did some, I can't say it's MVP, maybe something like that, and that's it. Because they don't have budget, they don't have people, and, of course, they don't have the real game. And then the final one, which is also very important, is the targeted audience. Because, like, I briefly listened to the keynote before, and people will usually mention Roblox. Like, my daughters are playing Roblox, and they like it a lot, but, you know, if you want to monetize your game, like, who are your targeted audience? Some people who are, like, in the blockchain space, or the kids. If the kids are your targeted audience, we can expect the revenue is invested maybe in five, 10 years, because then it will be the real mass adoption of gaming, because games became the new reality for our kids, but there is still a chance to create the game who we as a business people could play, because we love the narratives, we love the storytelling, we have, we love the way we could make money. And to summarize up what I've said right now, it was mentioned, actually. We are in the kind of transition period. We can't make web pre-game out of nothing. So right now, it's better to start from the web-to-game, then maybe add on some NFTs, because usually people are trading collectibles within the game, and for that specific purpose, we need NFTs. Then add on the tokens, great, because people can trade and monetize what they've been doing before. And then finally, we are in the web-free space. So I believe that might be the best recipe for that. All right, thanks, Juliet. So I wanna discuss, you just said, a shift is coming towards blockchain gaming, but are there any challenges that we are encountering along the way? Any challenges that you think we are encountering along the way? In my opinion, I'm facing a lot of challenges and acquiring more users to the web-to-game. It's not that easy, right? If you're launching web-to-game, so acquiring millions of users, like it is not an easy process in terms of marketing. We have to build a DAO or a community activity, so incentivizing the whole community, so the community will promote the game so that we can reach the masses. That is a way to get acquired users. That is a big challenge right now. So whatever NFTs we've been told more than 100,000 NFTs in India, but still, it's not easy process that normal games are used to acquire millions of downloads every day. But blockchain games are very difficult to acquire. User acquisition is a very big challenge. It's what we're facing every day. So I think I'd like to add to that. So there are two ways to it, right? So if you're building a web-to-game thinking day one, or like Juliet mentioned, that if it's a web-to-game, or let's say a community, and then you're letting those users flow into the web-to-game, right? So the second is easier, plus let's say that would be a little more right path to do it. So for example, I mean, we don't want to know about www dot, right? We just want to know about x.com or y.com. What do I mean by that? It's like the protocol, which is running behind the website, right? We don't worry about that. We just worry about the product. So at the end of the day, blockchain tech has to be in behind of whatever game you're running, whatever economy you want to run, right? So it's like you can get any web-to-gamer enter the web-three just like that. If your blockchain tech is running behind and if the user experience is pretty easy, right? So that is what, in fact, with us, right, with Stan. Stan is like a community of gamers in eSports. So we already have like a million gamers on Stan. So what day one we thought that, you know, all the web-three products today were web-based. There was no app solution, these wallets, these crypto wallets. In fact, I would say almost everybody in this room would find difficulty to create a Metamask wallet or add money to that wallet, right? And then go ahead and buy an NFT. So I think cracking that day one was something which we felt is important. So just give a user an experience that he or she can just buy a on-chain asset as simple as buying a Netflix subscription or let's say buying an in-app purchase which you do in any of the other games, right? So that user experience has to be very smooth to buy on-chain items and NFTs or tokens that the user is just consuming blockchain like he's consuming any web-to-product. So that challenge is something which is, I think, the top of the table, right? And obviously, if you see that economy is like she was mentioning, right? Everybody's starting that, hey, it's a web-three game and let's build launch token and stuff like that, but that doesn't work like that. I mean, economies have to be created on top of something, let's say, which is proven or there is a hook in the game which is actually letting user to come back. Now you're adding the blockchain economy to sort of amplify it or let's say give user an additional way to make money. It shouldn't be the way of consuming the product, right? So user experience and I think the right way to do economy is something which is challenging in the blockchain space. So simplification you mean, right? Do you guys also agree or you want to add something to it? No, I think doubling down on the point that we spoke about earlier, right? The whole, the biggest challenge that we see is so a bit of a context at Meta Studios where a game developer and company and our group company Meta Engine, we are building a platform which has integrated web-three functionalities so that any game developer don't have to start by thinking that I have to build a web-three game on blockchain, worry about all these tokenomics, et cetera. You build a cool game, the integration will take care of. And so when we interact with a lot of game developers, a lot of brands who want to build in this space, sometimes we experience they come with the whole craze of the industry is booming a lot. Web-three gaming is gonna be the next big hit. We want to build a game on blockchain. Why? Do we even need to build the entire game on blockchain? Right? All we just need to like store some assets or some features over blockchain. That's one, the whole approach towards building a game, just because we are seeing a lot of boom happening, we are seeing a lot of talks happening, the gradual transition which is required, right, from web-two to web-three without compromising on the fun element of a game, without compromising on the engagement element of a game, without compromising on the whole scalability aspect of a game, that is something that we are seeing that there is a bit of a maturity that still needs to come there. But other than that, the whole aspect of the ownership, you know, the credibility, you getting rights of your own game assets, that's brilliant, that's bang-on point that web-three provides, right? But again, like repeating on the point that I said earlier, that should not be the core of building a game. The core of building a game should be that you build a fun and an engaging game, like she said, like a storyline, right? You play a game, like you play a God of War because the story is amazing, the gameplay is amazing, and triple A games are gonna be here, like it's a long, long road when triple A games enter into web-three and that's why it's gonna be led by indie gamers and this is where tools and projects where indie gamers gets the flexibility to build engaging games without worrying about the whole blockchain integration, that's where the core starts. I think that's gonna be very important. Okay, you wanna add something? Yeah, go on. Yeah, I just wanna add. Like actually there is another challenge for web-three games and it's AI technology. So for example, we've got one project and now a pipeline, the guys are creators of the gaming engine. So now what they do, they put a mid-journey experience that you're able to create the picture into the game. So basically you will be able to create the game by putting some parameters and keywords just in a few minutes because AI will generate you the game itself based on what you want. So of course, lots of developers, in web-three developers, like gaming developers, they won't be needed. So in this case, you need to be super innovative and you need to be psychologist at the same time. So for example, a good friend of mine, he's doing the game, it's called Dijun Zoo. I believe like lots of people heard about it. So he's doing some animals and making people not to kill the animals because of course, who will be willing to kill the animals? So it's something like to keep people involved longer and longer and longer. So of course, the psychological aspect within the game is also very important. All right, Piyush, would like to know the challenges you think you are facing for blockchain gaming, your thoughts on that, any challenges you think you have been facing? No, I think, yeah, I think it's a very early day. There are lots of challenges. As rightly pointed out, the quality of games needs to improve. We need more active gamers to play. The retention of games needs to improve. All these are very strong fundamentals for the community to build on top of it. And at our end, we started working with few web, three games around the same time last year, around April, May, 2022. And we have seen that building this community is going to take some time, which basically means getting streamers to create content around it. And streaming plays a very important role for any game to take off. You have the initial players who come and start playing, but once the streaming happens, people start to watch others play. That is where the community gets paid. And therefore, what we are seeing is that that's going to take some time. So we'll need to create a lot of content creators around web, three games streaming. We'll need to also work on short form video and video on demand. But from our perspective, we are like a next step to the game getting successful. So we are waiting and we are hoping that few Indian games and few global games start to pick up within the Indian gaming community. And from there, the real journey will start. So yeah, it is a very early days, particularly from the perspective of the fact that as community gets built, the game quality and the kind of retention games have is going to play a very important role. Okay, all right. We are running short of time and we have to cut short this session, but anybody wants to add something, you know, the final thoughts? Anybody? Before 10 years, so there is no such a term called a YouTuber, right? There is no term called like social media marketer, right? I think in the next three, four years, there'll be a profession called, you know, gamer. So people show the skill online and then a lot of esports celebrities may be able to see. Gaming will be profession is what I'm guessing is going to happen within the next two to three years. Isn't it already happening already? I think part of it will agree, we all are gamers and we are into a group. I think we already have such celebrities now in the country, like these guys have mad following on YouTube, 15, 30 million subscribers and these guys are the next people who are going to promote Chavanprash or anything, you know, it's not going to be Amitabh Bachchan or anything, these would be the gamers who would be, like the guys will be relating more to, because they're watching these guys continuously on live streams, right? So we already have YouTubers who are celebrities, like you mentioned. All right, we wrap up the session. Piyush, you want to add something? No, no, no, I was just saying that, I think Stan and Kruta both will agree that we are already paying a lot to gamers for them to become and be the celebrity they already are, so. Oh. But all good.