 Boom, what's up everyone? Welcome to simulation. I'm your host Alan Sacian. We are at the transformative technologies conference And holy cow. We are learning about amazing people amazing companies. We are now sitting down with dr. Pablo paredes. Hello Hey, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming on to the show my pleasure really appreciate it Thank you an instructor in radiology. Yeah, is that guys psychiatry and population health and Population health at Stanford University. Yeah, okay radiology psychiatry and population health, right? This is gonna be such a cool Okay, so maybe before we get to the Thesis and cores of your work. Sure. Tell us about your life. You know, who are you? How did you get to where I am? Yeah, well, I'm gonna try to make a long story short the reason I'm here I would say is because I actually like you know have a Family member who suffers from a mental disorder and it took a long time in South America to find some kind of like relief Decades and at one point in my whole like history of like dealing with this thing I was able to discover kind to be hereditary and a bunch of other like very like, you know empirically driven techniques that helped Relief some of the problems, but never saw them and ever since I've been like trying to understand How can I do something as an engineer to solve this problem? What was the ailment? Obsessive compulsive disorder. Yeah, so at the end of the day the idea is to you know find the right this Diagnostics and provide the right treatment at a time Making the long story short in part also because I had to like, you know I had I was an entrepreneur and Ecuador sadly tanked in the 2000 I had to like get out of there I studied it with a full bright scholarship at Georgia Tech and then I had to go back I worked in Ecuador in Brazil, but at one point I decided, you know what? I'm spending all my free time is researching this topic of like mental health like literally in my own money On top of my career, which I was doing really good and I really enjoyed as business Manager, but I decided to become a scientist. So I quit and I came to Berkeley I did my PhD in computer science and I focused on mental health technology from day one Now I'm more into the world of what's called precision health So I did a postdoc here at Stanford and the people from the meds in computer science But the people in the med school are creating a new center That's called the precision health and integrated diagnostics and precision health is not precision medicine I want to make sure that that's understood Precision medicine is how do I measure exactly what's going on in you to solve some problem precision health? How do I measure you being healthy and keep you that way? So medicine is to fix and health is to keep you going strong Okay, and that's what I want to do. So I don't I'm still focused on mental health But I what I want is people to never fall sick. Yeah Yes, so so to get rid of the pathologies even before they start and to pre be predictive Yes, predictive and proactive. Yes. Yes. Now. What how did the story with your family member? Where did where did that go? Yeah, because we just yeah, just had Bashar on the show Okay, and Bashar was saying that he has in his in his Science lab that they have a magnetic TMS. Yeah. Yeah, it's getting much better Yeah, it's getting better. I think we're getting close to much better treatment, and I hope it will be like Sooner rather than later that we find a better treatment right now. It's just more of the same in South America. We have a different, you know level of advancement, but I'm very I'm paying a lot of attention to TMS Yes, and also to ketamine research that other researchers are doing to both both are very interesting. Yes. Yes now, okay So radiology psychiatry public health, right? So now as you as you finish Yeah, you were doing it was post post doc at Sanford right as you finishing Yeah, how did yeah, how did you decide to do instructing and also right? So so I mean in reality I do research the instructor is just a label for you know a very junior faculty level So I have my own lab I got like a small startup package to work on it and I have students working with me and even a post-doc working with me and The whole purpose is to like working this core problem of like how do we keep you healthy for as long as possible So I'm fascinated with the questions around how do we use interaction between the environment and the individual? Because I am actually a human computer interaction researcher. So what I want to do is how do we Transform the wild the new wild into like something that can help him by the new wild. I mean Buildings like 90% of us spent I'm sorry. We spend 90% of our time in buildings when we're awake when we're a world and it's leaping both No, you know, it was yeah, so both we spend like too much time too much time in buildings Yeah, or I don't know if it's too much time. You know, I used to think that it was too much time I just dropped it too much and I'm like, well, that's what it is. That's what it is That's what it is. This is our new environment. It's our new even though. There's so much pointing towards Forest bathing and nature. There's many Positive aspects of going outdoors and people should do that and we could keep trying to recover that lost terrain But 90% is a sizable number. We spend a lot of time indoors and I think we should Take that and instead of fighting it like okay, how do we transform the environment? Such that it really can benefit our mind and our body and this speaks about like the transition from the Cubicle right to the transition to these opener. Yeah. Well, there's many variations I think we still need to do a lot of like more hardcore research on the way that we design furniture the way that we design Peripherals the way that we design architecture the way that we design even like materials and floors and things in order to like Not only measure variables like, you know productivity and comfort. I think those are not enough We should be measuring variables of well-being as well. Interesting. No, okay. You just list so many variables You're making my mind go everywhere. I love it. So, okay, let's take an example Yeah, so when you want to when you see a like a building, how do you architect? Building yeah to optimize for well-being. Yeah Well right now we actually have a very interesting I'm part of a project with professor James Landay from CS and professor Sarah LinkedIn from the civil engineering department and we're discussing what does that mean? How do you architect? Do we have to look at the windows? How the windows let propagate light from outdoors? Do we have to look at the Temperature because now we basically have all fake temperature everywhere Do we have to look at perhaps the type of like emblems and colors that surrounds us? So that produce, you know, some kind of meaning do we have to look maybe a lot of variables I have to do with the materials and how they how toxic they are or not toxic At the end of the day, I think the the truth is that we don't really know enough I think architecture has a tradition of like Focus on aesthetics and beauty and that's already a very good principle to like do something. That's meaningful But it's not enough. I think there's not enough core science to understand Well, if I change the window size or the openings or whatever, how much does that affect the amount of stress that I have? How much does that affect? We haven't measured it and that's exactly what we're doing right now We're trying to measure trying to understand in my lava more focused on the furniture itself on the furnace Yeah, I'm very interested in furniture. Yeah, yeah, you see that Crazy desk that some Silicon Valley companies making where you it's like a dent It's like you're at a dentist's office Yeah, I mean, I've seen very creative things and I think we have to keep producing new stuff I think that's very cool. I've been looking a lot at the traditional seat stand desk lately like studying it and it turns out that you know most of the new deployments that you see out there of new offices Brings with them like the seat stand desk with a hope that people will be like more like you know active and that those are the Desks that you press the button go up and down some are more or less fancy than that But essentially the same thing sadly, you know, the literature shows that 70% of those desks after three months remain sitting Nobody uses them anymore. They don't go stand. They don't go between. They don't use them anymore People don't press the button anymore. Yeah, they just sit. They just sit. Oh interesting So it's not that you got broken three months people stop stop doing it Interesting and then you ask there's another studies that say like you are there some other researchers ask like why and essentially is apathy It's apathy. Yeah, essentially Essentially so we're actually designing a what if the desk move? I mean, yeah, that's exactly what we're doing We just created a desk that we call the haunted desk He moves on its own so If you're apathetic about it, then the freaking things gonna move up and down Yeah, you shouldn't be bothered and we're running, you know science behind that, you know, how do people do it so far Well, we know this is that people to it's kind of funny You actually see the person typing and the desk starts going up and They keep working and they don't complain there's some glitches here and there and there's like more research to be done but in general Sure. Yeah, why not? So yeah, I'm very interested for example in desks that move. I'm very interested in chairs I'm like, can I make the chair uncomfortable? Uncomfortable after a while so you are like sitting there and after a while the chair starts like taking a little bit And then you feel like compelled to like oh to move your body. Yeah, right interesting just a tiny bit Yeah, the uncomfortability will trigger movement. Yeah, because otherwise the comfortability will trigger seat Yes, yes, I think we have to fight comfort That is interesting. I like the way you think that's a very like contrarian Yeah, and you know, I mean, yeah, maybe it's my nature Are you do like decrease one of the sides of the chair or something? Yeah, we have actually a chair with four actuators in the legs. We can do anything we want We're very interested in a chair that stinks a sinking chair Yeah, so after a while it starts thinking unless you take a break. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting So there's a little bit of like, you know artistic exploration But also some like hard-rooted questions of behavior change Like if you look at the literature of behavior change for a long time We have been pounding on the possibility of like Convincing people persuading people to do things And we're just not doing a great job So I think we need to continue on that path and maybe look deeper Maybe mindsets, you know, there's some research about that from Ali Kram. Very interesting But I think we should also just get things moving and like force you to do like you go to the restroom and your chair's gone Yeah What happens what happens then then then you stand and work maybe or maybe you go for a walk Maybe yeah, I mean see obviously we are not going to go to the point that's going to hurt You know creativity or productivity or like But I think people can tolerate these like changes in the environment. It's also a little bit of a surprise Yeah, it's really fun that your chair is making a joke like that. Like where'd you go? And the chair might be hiding behind the door like Yeah, exactly I don't know. I think I think it sounds silly and I think we should explore some silliness But there is a little bit of value on like this exploration of the environment Forcing you as a forcing function for you to do things. I agree. Yeah So now keep going in the in the you know, you're talking about furniture desks chairs What else but also, you know, you're also mentioning some interesting things like oh if the chair was on wheels And had some motors and also had a camera on it. Well, it could just move whenever They're not on and then you could be like damn it. Yeah. Yeah at least interesting silly Yeah, or maybe moves closer to the window so you can read with natural light as opposed to the the thing It's basically says come sit here sit here. Right. Exactly. I mean, I think there's many possibilities And I think there's many things that we can like look into like, you know, we have already Chairs and desks and things we have also peripherals Like the display display the keyboard the mouse. These are very interesting devices They have actually much more power than it looks like I'm actually very interested in like can I detect stress just by the way you use them And I've been able to publish a paper on the move Movement of the mouse. Oh, I was I was I was just about to say there's you can for sure detect stress by how hard someone When when you know, oh, yeah, yeah pressure. Yeah, and then someone's like, oh, I wish this was working You can click it multiple times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we actually have a paper on that with a colleague Javier Hernandez, we did that the problem is that normal $5 keyboards and $5 mouse don't have pressure But I don't need them. I can actually detect by the way you move the mouse Interesting because when you get stressed your muscles get tense And when they get tense the way that you handle things changes the trajectory Changes so you do exactly the same thing that you were doing Undercome and under stress and you see a slight change in the trajectory and you can do math with that Does that mean I'm moving Less calm. I'm a little like faster with no that's the beauty. It's not about the speed is about the shape the precision The shape of you landing into that area. Oh interesting So maybe if I'm if I'm calmer, I'm moving it directly to the point But if I'm agitated I might shoot over it. It's actually no it's actually you become more precise with the stress Actually, you can be very very precise. That's why stress is not necessarily a bad thing. Interesting It's actually something that's necessary. You become a bit more precise if you get too stressed Then you start making mistakes. Okay. Okay, but if you get the right amount of stress You become a bit more precise actually more efficient So then yeah, tell me more about so we use the movement of the mouse to basically detect Stress just by the way you move by creating a model of the arm a mass spring damper model of the arm So that's like a robotic model instead of doing machine learning trying to infer things We literally propose that, you know, if I can look at the data From the movement, I can create some equations to model what will be a resonating An oscillator So an oscillator has a spring and a mass So we modeled that from the arm and we say like the muscles are like springs. They basically Contract and when they get tense, they basically are resonating at a different Frequency and we prove that mathematically Oh So we were able to show that basically with movement I can infer the amount of stiffness in the arm Yeah, oh cool. Yeah, and and we actually validated that also in the car. That's another space I'm very interested the car. I've been doing a lot of research in the car We actually extended this idea of movement and we did it with a steering wheel So we basically got to a stress standard, you know, and then come and drive Everything else kept equal We shown that, you know with stress the way you take the turns is again a little bit more precise And that's basically expressed in a mass spring damper and you can show the the coefficient of like rigidity And you can basically infer the amount of stiffness due to stress in the arm Yeah, as driving or or on a mass. Yeah, so so I'm very interested like, you know In the car you have more sensors. Do you have the steering wheel? You have this beautiful sensor for for the for the legs You have your body against another potential sensor of posture and all that So you can get a lot of pretty cool information from a car and to be very honest, I'm not It's not a car that fascinates me. It's the commute Yes, the commute is amazingly interesting Is this moment in the day When you're moving from a high productivity environment to a very much like relaxation environment And you should go with that flow you should go there and basically feel better But many many people don't happen to have that luxury they go from stress to more stress And they fight their way through to try to sleep and they have poor quality sleep And the commute is not helping much the commute is basically just this Link between these two places without adding value in many times actually exacerbating Because of all the factors of like driving And basically what I think is that that moment can be used to like can we we can repurpose the commute From a bug into a feature. Yeah And the reason I'm all interested in the commute is not just because of that situation It's because it is the right moment to do it. It's the moment when you're moving from this environment to environment It's an important moment in the day. Yes You want to make sure that the the mood the well-being the the health is high when they're in this commuting time Correct when they I want that by the time they have done commuting They are in the right state of mind They should be much calmer if they're going home and they should be much alert much more alert if they're coming from home To work work. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, such that, you know, you deliver the person in the right state of mind And then the other thing also about the commute that's very interesting is that you know, it happens twice a day Yes Every day For 50 million americans. They spend about an hour So there's a lot of people doing this thing And I used to tell this to my colleagues psychiatrist I'm like, you know, you you know playing the jokes about the sofas, you know We always refer to the psychiatry sofas like the sofa that you really want is the sofa in the car Because now you have the person trapped They get in the car and they move they cannot even get out of this place So the place where you can really intervene is in the car while you're commuting you have them captive They're captive in the car. Yeah, and it happens twice a day. Yeah What would be the variables that you would tweak? Yeah on the way to work on the way back home We are actually already publishing pipe papers on that. It's I'm very interested with breathing rate breathing. That's the first one Yeah, there's many aspects to breathing and in this conference, especially there's a lot of people thinking very carefully about breathing I'm very interested in the chest Getting people to breathe slowly Like, you know, for most people doing their air fragmatic this complicated Advanced techniques. It's just difficult to to acquire Breathing is slowly everybody can Now sustaining the slow breath is a bit more difficult. So we created a chair That has like the imagine a bunch of like a massage A haptic massage Interaction in the back is like a bunch of motors that basically give you a signal that goes up And then it goes down And that sequence is linked to your breathing rate So essentially it asks you to follow the sequence for you to like start breathing at the same pace And then we reduce the speed of the breathing and then people start breathing slowly We reduce it by 30 percent And not only that the beauty is that during that time we measure all the performance indicators like, you know Lane keeping and like heartbreaking and there weren't a major distortions Anything that will have a affected safety. So you can Do the same thing you're doing But let's stress Because you because you're breathing slow slower And you're helping them breathe slower on the way back home through a through the back The back of the chair has yeah this actuators that gives you and that it rises up exactly And then it goes down. Yeah Interesting. So then you you now you follow your breath to that physical feeling Breath to that physical and there's many good properties of putting it on the on the back The main one is that people basically say it's less cognitive demanding that anything People try that with lights with voices like not just with this simple massage in the back back is works Yes, and then the other thing that they like a lot about the interaction was that they actually can drive And if they want to do a maneuver of some sort at some point They can always disengage just like a little bit a little bit do the thing and then like come back and yeah That's interesting. Yeah What about on the way to work? Yeah, that's the other question like what do we do in the way to work? I would say I've been focusing more on the winding down part right now But there is the way to work and I think at increasing attention and focus Maybe like the smell of coffee smell will be very interesting I'm actually talking to a startup around here that has this like more Dry method of generating smells on demand and we're very interesting using something like that to Generate alertness. I think breathing also can be used, but in this case it will be breathing faster So if I get you to breathe slightly faster I can actually get you more aroused. It works both ways and we actually have a small paper Where we investigated can we use fast breathing fast pace breathing? For fatigue You know again, it was more at the end of the day But I think in the morning it's similar. You're like still a bit drowsy waking up breathe a bit faster Yeah Posture will also help posture like the right posture in the seat. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah, if you Immediately change right now and move your shoulders that already make you feel better. So we're actually working talking to a very interesting company that built You know car car seat makers the companies that make car seats are actually pretty big companies It's amazing like billion multi billion multi billion dollars Because they make hundreds of millions. Yeah, and the seat is a very important piece of car very important piece So they uh, they're very they they are very interesting blending The three things that we just discussed some posture Some potential guided breathing and maybe some scent As well interesting. Yeah to get basically them The engagement to be not just the level of arousal up, but also a little bit of like Have the pleasant feeling which basically puts you in a good mood Wow There's So 50 million in just the u.s. Come you just the u.s. Oh, yeah A day a day and and that and that's huge like you said you're you're trapped in the car Yeah, you are literally trapped So there's so much you can do to make the to do the preparation for work Yeah, the preparation for home for home as well because I also remember I wanted to mention this when you come home A lot of your Happiness when you come home is in your family at least if you're with a family Is based on the way you first treat your significant other when you come home So if you have an elevated mood when you come home and you and you give that loving energy to your spouse It changes the rest of the evening. Yeah, yeah completely agree That's why I think that the delivering of the individual at the end of the trajectory of the commute Is extremely valuable Because I agree with you is the first interactions that happen at home and at work That set the tone of the whole experience. Yeah So if we can make that the first impression Better even though it's a repeated impression really about the first interaction better I completely agree with you. It will have a difference and not only that there's some signs that show that but Yeah, if there's like a couple of exchanges of like a loving exchange or like a smile at least The whole the rest of the evening flows. Yes, maybe you come like, oh my god, you know this day and like what did you do? I have no time right now The whole evening at least a little like I at least a little like I love you I had a complicated day at work. Exactly, but at least you are I'm happy to see you Yeah, yeah, yeah, it helps. I mean people will say well, you can do you can train yourself to do that And then it comes at a third concept that I'm very interested at recent actually talking to nicole here that Made me realize there's this we in science. We talk a lot about the sensors and interventions, right? We send something and then we do something about an intervention There's the for me this pre intervention phase You prepare the person To have an intervention so let's say the intervention is right this loving conversation Which is actually well documented called the constructive active constructive talking If you're not in the right mood I Kind of give you a lot probability of you engaging in active constructive So I might not necessarily need to like Change the dynamic completely by by getting you in the best mood I just prepare you such that you adhere to the other intervention, which is the conversational active conversation So I use the commute as a preparation Exactly for a more profound intervention Happening at home and and so now where I like how you're How you're making this sit because you're making it sit with the you you have a huge intention So even before the intervention you have the intention to prepare the person for it Correct. So then where else can this be used? I mean the commutes a good one home. The commutes. It works a good one I mean this can be used in preparation for so much like so much I think we should be researching very actively in this topic For number one anecdotal experience. I had no no no scientific anecdotal is I'm a Quite explosive like, you know, a passionate individual might maybe infer and I used to work in business And I used to have these issues I used to work in marketing in the ninth floor And engineering was on the second floor of this building in Ecuador And sometimes they really did something that like upset me greatly I used to take the elevator come out shouting like how do you dare to have done this to this client? She's you know, very bad Then I realized that you know instead of taking the elevator. I should take the stairs So now I have seven steps seven floors and I did it a bit faster So I did exert Went to the same place. It took me one more minute But my mood was different when I arrived there. I wasn't I was still sharp ready to say what I wanted to say But not with the same bitterness that I did with the other one that for example These transitions for you to like go and communicate with people. I think you should use those transitions To prepare yourself to engage in a more active even if it's like a more difficult conversation You can't prepare to that by exerting a little bit by maybe taking a longer route By just like, you know, maybe taking a coffee like don't just go Yeah, there's there's something I think with especially, you know, the work that I've done now with Tony Robbins with with priming And there's a lot of yeah priming. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of other Wellness coaches and coaches that help with this essence of priming. Yeah, it's just that, you know, you're priming for priming for your For a deep conversation with your partner. We'll get into your heart and give the love. Give the love If when I was going to give the TEDx talk in art in october in san francisco, I was like I was getting super ready and I was also drowning myself All sides of that and so Yeah And so that that really got me into into the into the stage So there's so what I love I love the idea of priming and and preparing for their intervention. Yeah, that's so cool Systemically, right? Systemically that that's the part where I think we need signs like how do we really measure The outcome such that I know that you're ready to take their intervention and use it and adhere and adopt it Otherwise, it's just random search We could use like machine learning random search and maybe that's a good way to start, you know, like just testing what happens But systemically ask the question. Can we create experiences that are conducive to more adherence and adoption of an intervention? Can we do it and what does that mean? Yes. Yes And and I would be very interested to just know which which ones would you want? Like which interventions would you find to be the first ones that you would want to start studying, right? Well, I mean I I'm pretty I having a lot of fun right now with the car and furniture. I think behaviors I have to do with mobility Mobility mobility is extremely interesting. I'm fascinated with many effect many things I have to do with mobility. First of all I think the body is the ultimate like stimulation System for the brain Brains are connected to bodies. We sense we have multiple connections I think we should as much as we progress on the part of like meditation We should progress in in the art of like using your body. Oh, oh my gosh, you know, you know portal Um, he taught me about the He showed me how you know the reptile Moves on the ground and stuff and how humans if we I started crawling basically on the ground to test it out Yeah, very cool. Yeah started like serpenting around on the ground on all fours And I hear my hips go. You know, yeah opens up my whole body. Yeah, it feels amazing Yeah, no, I think movement is fascinating. Like there's so many things about movement like, you know The problem is that we we we tend to go to streams all the time. That's why I in my talk I was talking about saddle interventions. I want saddle movement saddle But constantly assessing it and constantly encouraging it Like, you know, we think we're too binary We're like go from sitting to running and everything in between seems like not count almost like it's not true And now we know better. There's better signs that show like How do they say the best state is the next one, right? It's always keeping movement So, you know saddle movement, for example, can we do something chest by stretching like stretching is wherever Can we get the chair to guide you to stretch? Yeah, breathing is also movement. Can we for example use rocking rocking is a very nice Way of you sit on a rocking chair and you feel kind of like relax. Oh, yeah Like can we do that in a in a car in an office chair? Can we make it a rocking office chair? Why not? We used to have so many more rocking chairs when our with our grandparents Yeah, and now where are the rocking chairs because we have no time to see the names. Okay Again, so now let's put them in the office then And you know, it's actually interesting because we actually with the chair that I mentioned that we built We have been exploring actually not just the opportunity of relaxation, but actually the opportunity to Engaging more like attention and focus and Again, we don't have scientific findings yet, but we have tested this with certain people. We have a chair that moves That literally moves from side to side programmatically And those who actually describe themselves are very fidgety. They love this chair Like me I sit on that and the chair is shaking me and I am actually able to like do stuff And not only still it actually focuses me kind of like relaxes. It it's not like flashes might need to move Yeah Now those who are very stable naturally they they don't like it. There's like no keep my chair stable Don't shake it and so I think it's not for everybody But for example movement might be very useful for some people and I've been researching about this And there's actually some kindergarten that they are using these unstable stools For adhd kits. Yeah, you keep those balance balls or other tools that look kind of like a cone Yeah, those are good I love for some when you're when you're when you were talking about having very slight Movements from side to side while working for me. That sounds exciting. It's very cool. Yeah, it's very cool Super good the other the other part of the body that you know How interesting is the whole proprioception and the whole like, you know You're burning calories when you're doing this. Oh, yeah, yeah Yeah, I mean, I'm moving my yeah my shoulders my Biceps my body. Do you do it's all my lower back Let's say I get to moving, you know One or two hours out of the aid that you're just sitting there. You will burn something You'll burn something but then day by day by day by day. Yeah I bet we wouldn't be a stiff. Yeah, that's very and the other thing also is like again It's about preparation if you've been a bit more active during the day the possibility of you engaging in more Excerptive activities a more more exercise man. It's I think you should go up Because you're not going from like potato couch straight. Exactly your level up from there And you're like I feel loose. I want to go do this active right Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is so cool. Yeah, you know what? I'm I'm envisioning I'm envisioning, you know, the I'm envisioning these very futuristic Furnitures, I'm envisioning like me going to the bathroom and then the chair being by the window when I come back and I'm like, yeah, yeah Okay, I'll move my over there I'm envisioning the commute in the car to like, you know, real like increase my breath on the way home And and and get me more prepared for a loving engagement on the way home You know, I love how you think about all this. It's very very important and futuristic and and we have we actually there's a lot of people at like, um At like cca the california college of arts up in san francisco. Very much so make all of this I know I know there's some people actually one of my co-advisors in my postdoc was wendy jew Professor who now is in chronal tech. She has these beautiful ideas around like robotics I just the best robots I've seen have come from her head I think, you know, she changed because all these robots that look like humans and anthropomorphic those are A fantasy of you know us as humans to project ourselves She's like we have to like make an ottoman. That's a robot So you're like sitting there and the ottoman comes and like offers Himself or herself to basically give you relief. So she's coming you raise your things and the ottoman goes in Oh, that's a cool robot because that all that'll deek that decompresses your back. Yeah, that's a cool robot, you know Or like she also has these others the um The garage can't the the garbage can't oh it comes to you Not only comes to you comes to you and shakes it like like a like a dog shakes it and you're like, oh, yeah You throw the trash That's great. That's the type of robots. I find we should be thinking more of In general, I like yeah, this type of this type of robotics I think well, we really need to invest more as opposed to like just trying to replicate ourselves So yeah, I think we should like play with the things that are around us Yeah, maybe the maybe the light is uh is decreasing in the room that you're in So maybe the the light comes on in the room. Maybe or yeah lights were also very interested I mean we haven't done a lot, but lights are very the other concept that I'm very interested So complementary to the the desk is what I call non volitional intervention So I'm forcing you to do things like literally by reconfiguring the environment. I'm forcing you To adopt a different behavior. Would you call it a non non volitional non volitional? Yeah. Yeah Interesting. So you don't do it with your own volition. No, you you are forced to do it. Cool Okay, whatever that means in terms of I'm not gonna get in there like ethics or that that's another conversation That's a different conversation. Yeah, but and if it's better for your health, if it's yeah, I think I think we should explore it And the other one is subliminal How do I get you to change certain aspects of your life without you even perceiving it? Like literally without you even perceiving it So I'm very interested right now. I'm working with a display That actually generates a signal changes the hue of the display. Yeah, not the brightness the hue In a very subtle way Such that you may not even perceive it Yeah, because it's actually working operating in one part of your visual perception. That's very like Linear very almost exaggerated. So your visual cortex perceives the changes, but you don't so you're typing an email You see the same thing But your the background of the of the email is changing and we generate the right frequency to induce certain changes in your brain That is a gamma and train make exactly or like delta So we can generate the frequencies with a display The same display that you used to write email Now, well, I mean just this just to explore that for a moment If I'm looking at the display and the display is the the leds are what are what are you doing with the leds? Because is it like a Is it like a couple millisecond is doing something very short very short So to the point where it doesn't even look like I'm Yeah, seeing a change in the screen. Correct. Interesting. Yeah, and then that can potentially in in train ace Potentially we there's there's there's uh appears in very cool everything that we need but yeah Could increase flow states and stuff potentially Wow, this is so cool. I'm really happy that you're doing everything that you're exploring You're like you're like a how can I explain you you're like a Uh, you're you're what would be the following word? A create Maybe like a creative environments designer something like that. Yeah, yeah, environment designer something like that. Yeah, yeah creative Creative healthy environments. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to create an ecology of like, I think our environment should have We should give more of life to our things Uh, you know, we talk about ecologies outside We don't have an ecology anymore because we're actually on the top of the food chain So no, there's no more like interactions with other species. The interactions are all fake and regulated And we used to live on the prairie with all those interactions with like bacteria and animals now we live here Here this environment. It's this. Yeah, so our environment should take life It should be more like adaptive and interplaying with you. He could even play practical jokes to you Why not like it's like you're coming and your chair is like hiding but your desk is like, I'm not going up Yeah, yeah, those are good jokes. They what happened that you just laugh for a while laughter is extremely good for you. Very good for you. Yeah Anyways, I think I think we should like came and shaked and then when he threw it it moved out of the way Exactly, that would that would be a great practical Then you force them to to bend Anyway, I think at the end of the day, why why wants to bring more like dynamism to our like Rather stale Environment the real in the wild thing. Yeah. Yeah I love it. What a what a pleasure this is. It was my pleasure. Yeah. Oh my gosh. This has been so enlightening Um, it's a very it's so much different You're like the only person at trans tech since doing this which I've met so far that I really like It's very different. It's and I love things that are very different From the cultural norms very Copernicus. See, you know, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I have the opportunity to explore it. Yeah Yeah, very happy. Thank you for teaching us about it. We'll have some links in the bio for you guys to check out Also, uh, go. Thank you for tuning in if you guys want give us some comments below with your thoughts Let's keep making fun ideas like this about how exactly we can change our environments to make them more creative More dynamic more movement or well-being. Um, we'd love to hear from you Also, go and build the future go manifest your dreams into the world everyone. Thank you so much and we'll see you soon Very cool. Thank you. That was fun. That was so fun. I love learning about you