 everyone and welcome to tonight's common council meeting before we start our meeting I would ask Madam City Clerk to read the quote for the week. Thank you Mayor. Notice how often you criticize and turn your criticism into tolerance and respect. Thank you Madam City Clerk. Call the 21st regular meeting of the common council order please call the roll. Boran. Here. Berg. Excuse. Serda. Here. Davis. Here. Graf. Here. Hanna. Here. Kittlesen. Here. Clayunas. Here. Manny. Here. Meyer. Here. Montemayor. Here. Racky. Here. Ryan. Here. Sushia. Here. Vanderweal. Here. Anver Hasselt. Here. Fifteen present. Quorum is present. Alderman Davis would you please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Last one. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation and one God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you Alderman Davis. Approval of the minutes Vice President Serda. Thank you Your Honor. I move that all the RO's be accepted and filed. All the RC's be accepted and adopted and all the resolutions and general ordinances be put upon your passage. Pardon me. That's just to approve the minutes. Oh make a motion to approve the minutes. There's a motion to approve the minutes and a second. Any discussion? There be a none. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes stand approved. Resignations. Attorney McLean. Thank you Your Honor. There's a letter dated January 23 to to the mayor from Marie Ellis advising that effective March 2nd 2007 should be retiring from the position of city assessor for the city of Sheboygan. She says she'd like to take this opportunity to thank you along with the Common Council and all co-workers for your support during my term as city assessor for the city. Assigned by Marie Ellis. Before I ask for a motion to accept and file, I would like to thank Marie Ellis who is in the crowd tonight for the exceptional work that she has done for the city of Sheboygan in the past nine years. It's been quite a tenure, quite a memorable, very pleasant two years that I've been here. She has been nothing but gold. So Marie Ellis, thank you very much for what you've done. And we wish you the best in the future and pleasant retirement. I ask for a motion to accept and file. Second. Motion to second. Any discussion? There'll be none. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Resignation accepted. And there's a letter from Greg Weigemann who's on the Harbor Center Business Improvement District Board advising that he's resigning from the Business Improvement District. There again, Mr. Weigemann has been a great board member. He's chosen not to continue his work. We thank him for the hard work that he's done and wish him well in his future endeavors. I'd ask for motion to accept and file. Second. Motion to second. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Resignation accepted. As far as appointments, there's a letter dated today's date hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration. David Gass to be considered for appointment to the Business Improvement District to fill the unexpired term of Greg Weigemann whose term expires 9, 14, 07, signed by the Mayor. That will lie over. David Bebel to be considered for appointment to the Naming Rights Committee to fill the unexpired term of Thomas Houlton whose term expires 4, 16, 07, signed by the Mayor. As you will recall is the Director of Public Works that chairs the committee by resolution. So I would ask for a motion to confirm. Motion to second to confirm. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Appointment confirmed. John Vandermal to be considered for appointment to the Commission on Aging to fill the unexpired term of Andrew Giesen whose term expires 4, 30, 07, signed by the Mayor. I'd ask for a motion to confirm also. Motion in second. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Presentation accepted. That's it. Thank you Attorney McLean. Next we have a we have a presentation to make. I would ask that Jim, is it Siebert? Please step up. Okay. As I said earlier the city is very blessed that we have a tremendous amount of very dedicated hard-working employees and here and there an employee will go beyond their call of duty and do something a little extra and not just do something a little extra but do something a little extra that makes a big difference and a very positive impact on someone else's life. This is a case tonight and I'd like to present this to Jim Siebert. Right? Yes. Okay. In recognition of recovering a purse which was stolen only minutes earlier from a woman in a robbery in the Kmart parking lot because of your awareness and response and index an expensive medical device and other important contents were returned to the grateful owner. I commend you for your efforts and issue this certificate and affix my seal and signature upon it. James, we're very proud of you. Thank you. Your honor, common counsel. I I'm actually kind of flabbergasted by this but I have to say it's an old statement. There is no I in team. We have over 100 individuals in the Department of Public Works. There are another set of eyes on the city. We do a great deal of this and and we try to be careful with it that we find wallets and parks. We find a variety of things and luckily most of it gets back to their owners to the people that do these things. Yeah, there are a lot of people watching. Sooner or later we're going to catch you and I greatly appreciate the help of Dave Bebel and Rich Cruz, the fellow people at Department of Public Works. They give us the flexibility. They give us the understanding and our judgment. They help us through the rough times and we're able to try and do the best benefit we can to the citizens of the city of Sheboygan. I thank you very, very much and I'm quite honored. Public forum, Madam St. Clair. Yes, first on our list would be Joseph Heidemann. Is Joseph here this evening? Okay, next on the list would be Corey Bulk. And Corey, can you give me your home address, please? 329 St. Clair. The closer Mike is to, the better. How's that? All right. And Corey, you will have five, I'm sorry, you will have five minutes. Thanks. Good evening. My name is Corey Bulk and I'm your neighbor at 4th and St. Clair here in the city of Sheboygan. Like most of the city, I just just paid my property taxes so I'm happy to have a couple of minutes of your time tonight to share a couple of thoughts on that. I congratulate you for holding the line on taxes last year. That's good, but it's not great yet. It's not done. My neighbors and I believe that our taxes are still too high. The common council and its department heads have a long journey ahead because there's still a lot of opportunity to continue to cut taxes and increase the level of services we were able to provide. Does the city want to provide great to our citizens? Sometimes I wonder, specifically because of something I saw in the budget process last year. There was an evening when the common council was debating the budget and there were $600,000 worth of well-reasoned cuts before the board that night. They would have cut redundant programs, duplicate services, and underused equipment. $600,000 sounds like an awful lot of money, but as part of a $30 million operating budget, it's only 2% of what you spend. All the neighbors I talked with were very disappointed that the city couldn't find it within itself to make that 2% cut. Nobody likes budget reductions, but Sheboygan's families and Sheboygan's businesses deal with those small adjustments every single day, and they think the city should too. At least that's what the neighbors tell me. I've really been impressed at how Sheboygan gets behind the United Way family of organizations with its money. I know it's a charitable organization. It's not a city government, but our Sheboygan neighbors open up their wallets voluntarily because the United Way delivers critical services efficiently. There's a lot of trust and respect that goes into the community's willingness to fund United Way programs, a trust that they will deliver those needed services that are critical that the city needs, and a trust that they will deliver them with efficiency and with a thriftiness that we could all learn from. Wouldn't it be great if Sheboygan's taxpayers believe that strongly in the efforts of the common council, what a way to earn respect and positive feedback and to be successful with our neighbors. And finally, I'm kind of concerned with where I see newcomers in our community moving too, because I think it's a direct relationship to Sheboygan's value equation, that balance between the taxes we pay and the benefits and the lifestyle we're able to live as a result of that. The company I work for has hired probably 20 managers in the past couple of years from outside Central Wisconsin, and only two of them have chosen to live and relocate their families to the city of Sheboygan. Two, why wouldn't they choose to live by the lake within walking distance of our terrific restaurants and nearby those great boutique shops on 8th Street? I hear it over and over again. The taxes are just too high there in Sheboygan. That's what they say. It's a shame for the town of Sheboygan and for Wilson and for Plymouth and for Falls to be gaining all those new taxpayers instead of our terrific city. So I believe that in order for Sheboygan to move from good to great, which is really what this body wants for our city, the Common Council and the city department heads need to continue to work together with respect and a positive neighborly attitude on cutting taxes and delivering an increased level of services. My name is Corey Bauch, and I'm one of your neighbors from District 2, and I thank you for listening. Thank you, Corey. Next would be John Berner. John, can I have your home address, please? Sure. 1919 Broadway. And you will have five minutes, sir. Okay. Now, I haven't been up here lately, but I've been watching the council. Oh, I forgot. Good evening. It's been cold, a little lice on the brine. And I've been watching the Common Council. And I, with this John Doe hearing that when, when it was over with the council people and the mayor had commented on it, it kind of bothered me because he made it sound more like it was a trial and it was just John Doe hearing. Nobody was really to blame. You talk about enemies. I see yourself as your worst enemies because it's your selves that are making the comments and it's being just exploited from there. On January 25th, the press put out an article on how the money was wasted on all these investigations and the majority. It was, started right here in the Common Council. And it was good reporting for a change. I actually bought a press and I tell you what, if the press, not just because of what they said, but of the truthfulness, there was no bias one way or the other. It was good reporting. And if the press would keep that up, I would take it weekly. Another thing that bothered me on this USS Estson is Common Council members keeps calling it a boat. There is a big difference between a boat and a ship. So if you don't know the difference on that, how can you comment on anything on it? And the view it's going to take away from the lake. And when you tour down that green building there and you drive by, what a terrific view, just seeing across the river again, seeing Blue Harbors, seeing South Pier, but that will end with the building of condominiums. I have no objection to that, but everybody, or not everybody, some people are saying this, the ship is going to take away and hide the lake. I don't know how it's going to hide. I don't know, a ship belongs on the ocean, the lake, not in the river. It's, from being in the service, I've been across the international deadline twice, by ship and twice by air. And the one time I went across on a ship, it was almost like World War II. We had about maybe four ships and when morning came there was a whole fleet of ships out there. There was something going on, we're heading towards Asia. It was a sight that only you see in the movies. Ships do have an important part. I thank you. Thank you, John. And lastly would be Larry McDonald. 225 year old. For I even got a chance to ask, thank you. And you will have five minutes, Mr. McDonald. Thank you. Did you know that the road to world peace starts in the heartland of America, in our beloved city of Sheboygan, Wisconsin? No, but you will, and so will the rest of the world. We have a unique triangle at 3rd and Michigan and you and I can make it world famous and draw tourists to our city. Please listen to my dream and let me know what you think. As you come up from the YMCA along Broughton Drive, you come into the point where you go up 3rd street or go down Broughton Drive. And I'm proposing a sign go there and all the aldermen have a copy of my my proposal. It says the road to world peace starts here. Down below the high road is up 3rd, the low road is on Long Broughton Drive, and the foam road is my coining a name for the road going toward the lake. And underneath that we have the control road, the alderlet road, and the delete road. You've got control alt delete, but you computer fans know means let's stop here and start all over again. You follow the road up 3rd street, one block to the corner where the peaceful is now. And I'm proposing a sign around the corner and a sign on the right. So start here then follow our road map. Our road map is the golden rule and on the back of that I've got eight different religions and the golden rule in the way they state it. They all say the same thing but in their own way. So worldwide the golden rule is well known. And then next to that a sign that says may the harmony of Cheboygan's Cordettes spread throughout the world. May the harmony of Cheboygan's Cordettes spread throughout the world. And then a little further down another sign. May the Plymouth foam products plane crash find a purpose by waking our world up U.P. capital with an asterisk to the way waking the world up to the way to world peace. And on the back I've got listed on the back of that. You've got the United Nations, we've got the United States, and now we've got the United people of the world with an asterisk and another asterisk. Our side is the human side and then I've got my website down below which gives you the background of my thinking. And then last sign on the road which I think could could be a very probable sign for the city. The sign that just says for local directions make it full in this number and that's a city number and you don't have to build a building to have the visitors to Cheboygan drive in the park and lot in park and go and if you want to get directions for anything you want in the area of Cheboygan you just got to call this phone number and ask them and somebody can mend that phone number sitting at their desk. So that I think the money would spend on this you could spend on developing my idea. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you Mr. McDonough. Thank you for addressing the Common Council tonight. The next item on the agenda is a tourism division update. Ms. Kim Swisher. Good evening your honor and members of the council. In January 2006 Yolanda Graf and I began our work to promote the city of Cheboygan as a tourism destination. I would like to take this opportunity to outline our accomplishments throughout the past year so that you are aware of the work that the tourism division has focused on. Briefly our accomplishments we've created a database to store visitor requests for future use. We've assumed responsibility for answering the Chamber's former 800 number as well as enacting our own toll-free number. We've created a new website visit Cheboygan.com. Working with Jacob and Clark we created a marketing brand that includes Cheboygan's Shores. We created and implemented spring summer fall and winter marketing campaigns. We created and implemented seasonal tourism publications. Our new winter spring tourism publication is included in your packet. We developed and now maintain relationships with county tourism partners. We are an active member of the newly formed TASC, Tourism Advisory Committee of Cheboygan County. We recognize the economic impact that we receive from our county tourism partners such as Road America and Kohler Championships. I believe it's important to maintain good working relationships with our county partners as this allows us to better leverage our marketing dollars. We are currently working on a concentrated effort to partner with Kohler to fill our lodging for the 2007 U.S. Senior Open. We serve on the Kohler Traffic Committee. We participated in Kohler corporate patrons event welcoming their business clients seeking to attend the U.S. Senior Open. We worked with Kohler to institute a lodging availability link on the golf website to promote city and county lodging properties. We are partnering with Kohler Championships to host an information booth at Whistling Straits during the tournament this summer. We have developed community relationships and currently serve on the Chamber's Tourism Committee. We also work very closely with the Harbor Center Business Improvement District and are currently partnering with several Cheboygan businesses for our tourism packages. We assist community groups in promoting Cheboygan as a positive image and our tourism efforts and the potential to increase overnight stays. Last year we assisted the Elks Club in preparations for their 2008 state conference that will be held in Cheboygan and we assisted with the dedication of the Lau, Mung, and American Veterans War Memorial dedication at Dillon Park. We have developed a strong partnership with Blue Harbor Resort and Conference Center. Our goal is to complement and support Blue Harbor's efforts in increasing leisure and business travel. We work with Blue Harbor in many ways to attract conferences to the city and we have been involved in several meetings with businesses and business groups that have selected Cheboygan for their next event. We have received two Department of Tourism grants totaling over $63,000. Our winter sales promotion and new event grants allow us to increase our visibility at key occupancy down times for our lodging properties. To better promote our Independence Day activities, we formed a July 4th Communications Committee. This informal committee meets monthly and is focused on promoting all of the activities in Cheboygan that we host over the holiday season. We created a listing of activities that was included in the Kohler Championship corporate binders that is distributed to their clients. Our 2006 marketing efforts generated a total of 32,175 contacts. Over 24 of those 24,000 of those contacts were visits to our new website. Over 4,500 of those contacts were visitors that we sent information to. As of September 30th 2006, we saw an increase in 2006 room tax dollars of just over $24,000 compared to 2005. We're very proud of our community relation efforts. We recognize that our efforts not only make an impression outside of Cheboygan but impact our community as well. If residents understand and support our efforts, this feeling will pass through to the visitors to our area. To keep open lines of communication and promote information the tourism division sends emails on a regular basis updating local businesses and city employees on our activities. We also occasionally submit articles to the Cheboygan press and I've been invited several times to speak on WHBL. Our 2007 goals include increasing the sales of our winter tourism packages, hosting successful winter events, our winter arts festival on February 16th and 17th, and our sipping on Cheboygan Shores March 24th. These events create long-term benefits for our lodging, our restaurants, our retail and attraction businesses. We're implementing internet podcasting on our website promoting various city amenities and assets such as lodging, dining, and recreational activities. We're implementing internet webcams at the marina and at Blue Harbor to showcase Cheboygan's lakefront. We're developing fall tourism packages that will increase fourth-quarter lodging occupancy, and we want to increase our marketing strategies to promote the Blue Harbor Conference Center. Business travel accounts for an estimated 1.18 billion dollars annually and we want Cheboygan and Blue Harbor to have a part of that pie. The actions that we've taken to get to this point and to reach our 2007 goals include laying the groundwork for our winter sales promotion. We are now in the midst of our new promotion shops, sundries, and style on Cheboygan Shores. The marketing campaign also encompasses the two new events, the Winter Arts Festival February 16th and 17th, and sipping on the Shores March 24th, tickets for sale throughout business locations. The second grant that we received sipping on Cheboygan Shores is a micro-brew and wine tasting event. Both of these events focus on increasing lodging occupancy as well as increasing activity at our retail, restaurants, and attraction businesses. Both promotions target Appleton, Chicago, Madison, and Milwaukee and are utilizing marketing components including internet banner ads, print ads, direct mail, radio advertisements, and cable television ads. We incorporated two new components, tourism packages, and visitor discount gift certificates. We are currently selling 43 different tourism packages on our website. As of last Wednesday, we've sold 14 packages totaling more than $1,400 in gross revenue. Today we surpass $2,000 in gross revenue. While that may sound like a small number, this is a terrific start to a brand new endeavor. We've compiled 62 visitor discount gift certificates from our city businesses and created booklets that will be distributed throughout our 12 lodging properties to visiting guests. It is our goal to distribute these books at the U.S. Senior Open this summer as well. Our primary goal remains increasing the public's awareness of Cheboygan as a year-round tourism destination. We believe our efforts have been strategic and fruitful in our first year and we are very optimistic for 2007. I welcome your questions. Please feel free to call me at the tourism office anytime. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Kim. Kim has done a remarkable job with our tourism division. As you can see, she also uses alliterative titles, sipping on Cheboygan shores. Everything has an asterisk or a seat or something like that, so but she's very very innovative. She's created a lot of energy in that division and Kim, we thank you very much and keep up the good work. The next item on the agenda is Mayor's comments and I wanted just to share a few comments with you with respect to the Motor Vehicle Fund that has become somewhat of an issue in the paper and even at the at the some of the forums that have been going on. I was talking to a gentleman about three or four days and he said keep up the good work that's what I call long-range planning. He said you have to remember that having that type of an account, eight million dollars is like winning the lottery. Everybody wants to give you advice and not to spend it. Make sure you use it wisely. The Motor Vehicle Fund is a fund that has been put together not just recently but a long time ago and it was done as a result of the city's inability to be able to fund the new purchases of machinery for our Public Works Department and because of Tom Holton's and Dave Bebel and Mr. Wanderjim, Adrian, because of their again innovation and creativity they were able to put together a process that would allow them to charge some of that money back for the use of the vehicles and put it back into a fund that would then allow them in the future to buy some of this equipment when the time came. That caused some relief on our budget. It had caused some relief in our Capital Improvements Plan where we no longer have to borrow five million dollars a year. We borrow three million dollars a year so they're able to capitalize their purchases using this process. It's been a very important process. I think every every contractor, every every smart finance director would resort to something like this. It's important to know some of the uses that this motor vehicle fund provides for. It's dump trucks, garbage packers, pickup trucks, street sweepers, bucket trucks, tractors, backhose, graders, lawnmowers, snowmowers, leaf vacuums, tree branch grinders, and a lot more other specialty equipment. There was a time and it will be Mr. Gephard and I will put together a report from the finance committee to show you some of the history and the trends of this of this particular fund and you'll see at some point in 1988 where the fund had no money. In fact at one point the fund was at a deficit and that caused some alarm. Obviously I wasn't here as a mayor and I think all of you, well I may tell you maybe Oliver McGrath was here, but a lot of you weren't here and it's something that has been in place but contrary to what some people may have extracted from that article is nobody was stashed in anything in the sense that they were hiding anything from you. Now this particular report fund shows up in the finance committee every time people were aware of it. All you had to do was ask a question about that but again I think it's a very important fund to have to continue to have. The question now is does that fund have too much money? That's a question for the council to answer and perhaps the finance committee to answer. Does it have too much money? Although if you look at the last four years you'll see the expenses and the revenues almost tapering off so the bulk of the money hasn't been created in the last four years and you'll be able to see that one of those graphs that I like to put together together for you. You'll see that within the last four years that money at two have been tapering expenses and revenue have been tapering off to a difference of about maybe 40-50 thousand dollars that goes back and then earns interest again so the bulk of the money has been put aside through careful planning years back and it's something that I think if we have a problem folks I like the eight million dollar problem that we have because it's money that's there. What we have to be careful is what I think the federal government and the state should have been careful with with the transportation funds they call it a stash fund went in there and dipped. The social security at the federal level became a little slush fund I should say and they went in there and dipped. You have to be careful that we don't react so quickly to something like this and then we think things through and plan it as the other alderman have and the former mayors have planned this through so that at this point we're able to say we're sitting pretty good because if all our equipment god forbid all our equipment were to break the citizens it would not be short change of any service entails and that's because of what you have done so when somebody doubts you don't accept that doubt because what you've done is a remarkable job and I thank you for that. There was also a statement made that perhaps we should borrow against against that and fund part of our police station that that is a possibility that the council could look although if you look at the interest rate for a 12-year bond the interest rate sits at four and a quarter. We earn five and a quarter interest on that account why would you want to borrow when you're earning more on it it's something for again for the council to weigh something for the the finance committee to weigh you've got something good here that came out of careful planning that's an example in a role model for other processes that we can put in place to continue to plan for bad days so I caution you to to overreact to to publicity it's it's something good that's here it's something good that you've done and let's look forward to working together and making something productive out of it thank you very much the next item on the agenda is a notice of a public hearing on the vacation and discontinuance of the unpaved north south alley between north seven street and north eight street between bell avenue and ghillie avenue and that's just a notice we need to have any interested parties okay is there any interested party that would like to address the council on that particular issue is there any interested party that would like to address the council is there any interested party that would like to address the council there being none hold on sir thank you your honor I move that the floor be closed motion to close the hearing second any discussion on that polls in favor say aye any opposed motion carries next we have two hearings the first one to change a zoning a property located at the terminus of north taylor drive from s r5 suburban residential five to class mr eight mixed residential eight classification and two to amend the text of the historic preservation regulations of the city of sheboygan zoning code relating to the rights of property owners relating to the designation of historic structures sites and districts is there anyone here that would like to address the council on those issues we will take mr leondowski and you and then you sir please step up to the podium sorry but okay just let us know which one you're going to be speaking about on the historic preservation preservation thank you very much please continue I'm here tonight to speak about the historic preservation ordinance changes that you would like to make tonight or have under consideration since the last meeting I was sent some information by the wisconsin state historical society it's 25 pages long I'm not going to read all of it but basically it says that the state historical society is against any requirements where people owners have to do any written consent one way that this would affect is people who own historic homes have an opportunity to get 25 percent of the money that they spend back in tax credits the state historical society has said that if a city or community has restrictions that homeowners need written permission to do this from the city that those homes are no longer eligible to get the 25 percent tax breaks and that would apply to anybody that was in that community also some of the article that I was sent it starts out with court cases that rule against written permission from owners and the first one that they mention here is a U.S. Supreme Court case decision in Penn Central Transportation Company versus the city of New York which establishes that historic preservation ordinances without owner consent provisions are constitutionally valid and then they go on in such cases property owners are allowed to opt out of historic preservation laws without regard for the social and economic benefits of preserving historic resources the end result is that fewer historic properties are protected despite the proliferation of so-called owner consent provisions little thought has been given to their fidelity legislatures include owner consent requirements in historic preservation ordinances as a means to locate men's very property owners preservationists go along for fear that otherwise no historic preservation ordinance will be passed and I know our committee has felt that way but are they legal owner consent provisions raise several section serious questions duty in fact violate the due process cause of the fifth and 14 amendments to the United States Constitution as an unlawful delegation of authority to private individuals do they undermine the police power objective of preserving historic property for the general welfare are they consistent with state enabling authority just going over a few points that I highlighted here it says decisions who include property on a local state or national register should be made exclusively by objective professional determinators of historic or architectural significance it is through this process that a fair and comprehensive list of properties is identified for protection the listing of historic resources provides an invaluable planning tool and helps to ensure that significant resources are identified researched and recorded another part says as with consent provisions and other types of land use ordinances these provisions undermine the public purpose of preserving historic structures by allowing individual property owners to decide what shall be protected based on subjective rather than objective factors several important principles can be extracted from the various court decisions in here it says owner consent provisions are more likely to be struck down when they delegate authority to individual property owners to decide how the general welfare shall be served application of these principles owner consent provisions in historic preservation on origin ordinances suggests that many courts would find such provisions unlawful if challenged in court because property is not subject to regulatory controls under historic preservation ordinances unless formally designated as historic owner consent provisions serve to undermine the police power objective of preserving historic structures of historic resources moreover such decisions are made by purely subjective motives rather than on the basis of subjective criteria either in the context of individual landmark designations or historic district designations the ability of a few individuals to decide the applicability of an ordinance enacted to protect the welfare runs a foul of the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution it says owner consent provisions that confer legislation authority on property owners have been consistently struck down by receiving courts as unconstitutional and as i said many of these cases are cited in here and i will give city clerk richards a copy of this so she can give it to all the alderman so i would like to ask in addition that you hold off this vote until you can look at all this it also says here many of the concerns identified by the supreme court in its true loud trilogy of owner consent cases and a number of state court that court says well are present in historic preservation ordinances with owner consent provisions also adds additional concerns are also present once a property owner decides the withhold is or her consent historic property cannot be regulated and it gives cases where this was struck down it says other due process and equal protection concerns under the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution land use laws must be derived from the police power the police power is an is a inherent authority in each state to regulate protect or promote the public health safety morals or the general welfare and preserve historic buildings falls in this category it says near near the end here indeed under the supreme court's ruling in keystone coal association verse debenech this one could argue that the historic preservation ordinances with owner consent provisions should be invalidated under the fifth and fourteenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution as a private benefit as opposed to a public purpose statute and i'll give all of these to city clerk sue richards but i would ask that you would either vote against these written consent by the owners or at least hold it off until the next meeting after you've had a chance to look at all of these articles thank you please state your name and which hearing you're talking on my name is kreg gotzacker i'm here seeking your approval for the zoning change at the northern and taylor drive in shabuigan the property consists of approximately three point three acres of land is presently zoned as an r5 which allows for density of five units per acre meaning that presently we could build up to 18 homes on that site i am looking for an mr eight zoning uh to make way for a condominium development which would contain five two family condominiums equalling 10 units where the zoning uh the the density would equate to three units per acre the homes will be much more compatible the condominiums will be much more compatible with the homes in the neighborhood each side would comprise about 1700 square feet per unit the the site also has a substantial amount of fringe on the maywood on the southern border of the maywood property it's uh i think it's a very nice development we've got the plans designed and we're just looking for your approval thank you thank you is there anyone else that would like yes sir please stop forward and again your name and if you have address and what's hearing you're talking about my name is john sweden i'm the property owner on the north end of taylor drive next to the property that greg is looking to develop i guess i would ask that uh you would hold off on that vote i really know nothing about this development and i guess i would like some more information to see what he's planning on doing there in case i have just a lot of questions i don't know if this is the place to ask him or not but i just hold off on that vote and hopefully we can discuss it and get some answers okay thank you very much is there anyone else who would like to this is just strictly for addressing the council no no responses okay we've got this gentleman here next we're not going to engage in debate this is strictly to address the council but your concerns regarding any of these two hearings my name is stewart lutsky i live at 28 et north taylor drive mr lutsky could you spell your last name please lutsky okay i'm talking about the construction of the homes on the end of taylor drive i like to have you hold off until we see the plans and see what's going to be built there and you know so we have our understanding to you know that's that's biggest thing so we know what's going on that you know how he's going to build it how it's going to affect our area basically so we just know that okay thank you thank you very much just for the council's knowledge the there were letters sent out by the uh the city development office to all neighboring is that correct mr fokulaski actually it's i do i send them on oh you did yes so yes that's correct okay anybody else who would like to address the council vice president sir thank you and i move that the hearings be closed motion second to close hearings any discussion on that they're being on those and say hi hi any opposed motion carries thank you and thank the public for addressing the council next item on the agenda is a consent agenda items 21 one 21 36 vice president sir thank you honor now i'll make a motion that to accept and file all the ro's and to accept and adopt all the rc's and that all resolutions and general ordinances be put upon their passage motion and second under discussion we have all the draw thank you your honor item 21 24 which is an rc by special committee on risk management uh due to some recent additional information that we received this past week i'd like to um refer that back to um risk management okay that'll be done for 21 24 will be referred back to risk management please make that notation all in many thank you uh document 21-4 i'd like to call our attention to it and if i may make a few comments please do document 21 4 notes the governor's response to our council's recent overture to the governor and the state legislature while appreciative of our support for bringing a comprehensive health care plan out of committee and to the legislature for deliberation the governor's letter does not indicate his strong support of that effort probably for political reasons he's focusing his energies on increasing the number of people covered under the badger care plus program while his effort in that direction has much to commend it it does not deal with a fundamental issue behind the health care crisis which is the cost of care thus i take this opportunity to ask all of us citizens of shabuigan to call our representatives in the legislature senator leipung and representative van ackeren and tell them that we strongly support a comprehensive health care plan for the state of wisconsin one which will cover the vast majority of our citizens one which will eliminate the inequities inherent in our current delivery system and one which will use market mechanisms to spur competition unless countless ordinary citizens like you and i so approach our legislators all across the state such legislation is going to have no prospect of success thank you well spoken all over many thank you very much sir on the consent agenda 21 1 through 21 36 except 21 24 which will be referred back to risk management please call the roll serda davis graph hannah kittleson clay unis mani meyer montemayor rackey ryan susha vander wheel for hassled and born 15 eyes motion carries communications and petitions 21 37 through 21 42 to be referred report of officers 21 43 with the city clerk submitted a communication from indian trails incorporated stating that effective february 1st 07 they they will be providing bus service to this community replacing the grayhound line service vice president serda thank you your honor i move that the rob accepted in motion and second to accept in file 21 43 under discussion alderman barron thank you your honor i have a couple questions uh first of all where is the indian trails going to be stopping in shubwagon and uh what times are they going to be stopping once a day twice a day i was wondering if anybody had that information a little more and i don't and mr mcdonnell is not here i will ask my assistant to make notation of that we will get the answer to tomorrow would that be okay sir thank you it was mainly also for the general public to know okay okay uh attorney mclean maybe thank you um ron did mention at the staff mayors meeting this morning that it stops at the bus transfer point currently downtown and comes through at 7 15 in the morning he mentioned that because they've got a little that that's when the buses also come in here so it's kind of jammed up but they're working on that but uh i think i believe it comes through the other direction once later on in the day but i don't know when i know that mr mcdonnell we will be putting out a notice to the public in the paper too and perhaps even the radio so we should take care of that thank you for your concern there alman born anything else there'll be a none all those in favor of accepting and filing 2143 please say aye any opposed motion carries 2144 by the city clerk submitted a communication from the blue harbor condo association stating their concerns regarding the fact that the city is considering allowing the development of a grand state hotel in the south pier district vice president serda thank you ron i will that the rlb accepted and placed on file motion to second to accept and file under discussion there'll be a none all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries 2145 through 2147 to uh excuse me 2145 and 2146 lies over 2147 by the purchase an agent submitted an evaluation request for the for the proposal of providing software consulting services i'm sorry for the for proposal for providing software consulting services alman gruff did you want to you're on i thought we were holding that for item 21 um fine okay that will be held for as alman gruff stated for 2167 is that correct i'm sorry you said 74 i think it's 60 67 okay everybody got that 2147 will be held to act on with along with 2167 thank you 2148 through 2164 to be referred alderman van der wheel thank you honor i would like to speak on 2153 i would like to make a motion to file that document motion second to file 2153 please continue under discussion i just uh like to say that this is we all had a chance to look at it i think we all had a chance to read it and it's just basically an angry constituent upset with an elected official so i think to be proper to file it thank you alman there's a motion to second under discussion there'll be a none all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries resolutions 3 2165 by alderman gruff authorizing the mayor's international committee to apply for and obtain a temporary restaurant permit for the committee sponsored taste of shabuigan county event in march 2007 alman gruff thank you honor i'd move that that resolution be put upon its passage motion and second to put it upon its passage under discussion there'll be a none please call them davis gruff hannah kittleson clioness manny meyer montemeyore ratki ryan susha van der wheel rehasselt born and serda 15 eyes motion carries 2166 by alderman meyer authorizing entering into a modern well-licensed agreement alderman meyer thank you honor i move that the resolution be put upon its passage motion second to put 2166 upon its passage under discussion under discussion i would like attorney mclean to explain this to the council and the public thank you alvin meyer attorney mclean thank you honor this is one of those items that you find out when you're looking to buy property or sell property and you do a survey you find that uh the site that we're looking to purchase from the county on north 23rd street has several existing monitoring wells if you look at your packet the next to the last page has a a survey showing three monitoring wells that two of which are on the south property line of property and one is in a little ways uh what the what this proposed agreement does is uh this would be entered into when we close on the purchase of the 23rd street site we would grant a license to the county to maintain those monitoring wells potentially under this agreement till the end of calendar year 2007 there is a provision that's important to the city on the second page it's uh under the term the section for term for for c early termination indicates that this agreement shall terminate as provided in section 4a or earlier upon default by licensee of any requirements of this license or upon a reasonable determination by licensor which is the city that this license will materially impede licensor's construction on the premises in 2007 or upon the dnr no longer requiring the monitoring wells and cleanouts so what that says is if there is going to be if they're still in place when we engage in initial construction of the police station site and to the extent that any of those wells would impact the construction that this agreement would terminate the county would remove those monitoring wells currently the county's consulting engineers environmental consultants believe that these this monitoring is due to be closed out and get their closure letter from the dnr by at least september and as i see it really should not impact our construction on the on the 23rd street site again to the extent we do start construction before they are closed out this agreement terminates and we'd have to deal with moving those monitoring wells on the life thank you your honor just to make it clear these monitoring wells are nothing more than a pvc pipe which is in the ground approximately six inches around and to to vacate the wells they simply pull the pipe fill up the hole with clay slurry of its guard so it's not a not a not a major undertaking correct elmer ryan thank you thank you okay we will call the roll graph hannah kittleson clioness mani meyer montemay or ratki ryan susha van der wheel for hasselt warren surda and davis 15 eyes motion carries bear with me okay 21 67 now we will act along with 21 47 hallman gruff thank you your honor i would ask for a suspension of rules please there's a motion second to suspend is there any objection there being none please proceed thank you your honor i'm i would move that the resolution be put upon its passage and the rob accepted and placed on file motion and second under discussion under discussion um due to the fact that i believe it's the um the salary and grievances committee would like to discuss um plans regarding the human services department and so forth um the software that's coming with this and they'd like to discuss it with them as soon as possible they'd like to enter into this contract as quickly as possible this has already been discussed at the finance committee so it's just lying over here and that's the reason for suspension and passage tonight thank y'all man gruff any other discussion there'll be a none please call it Hannah kittleson clioness mani meyer montemayor ratki ryan susha van der wheel for hasselt boran surda davis and gruff 15 ayes motion carries 21 68 and 69 lies over 21 70 through 21 73 to be referred report of committee 6 21 74 by building use recommended referral of document submitting a communication from mike william stating why he believes the decisions made by the council regarding moving the police mechanics to the police to the department of public works instead of keeping them with the new police station was premature and in that and without looking at the future costs associated making this move uh is there a motion here or almond with the mail thank you your honor i moved to file motion and second to file under discussion um we've discussed this and decided this in council before i can't imagine that we need any further discussion thank you thank you anything else there being on all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries report of committee 8 21 75 by finance recommended authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget all in the graph thank you your honor i would move that the um the rc be accepted and adopted and the resolution be put upon its passage motion the second to put 21 75 upon its passage under discussion alderman boring thank you your honor i'm not going to support this tonight uh i was not at the finance committee meeting when this was discussed i was on vacation but i have been attending the subcommittee meetings on shared services almost all of them and the subcommittee on shared services along with the shared services committee has had presentations regarding staffing of dispatch from rock county which includes jamesville which is a county uh about 30 000 people larger than shabuagan county about 155 000 people the i believe they've also had presentations from fondellac and manatee walk counties on their dispatch and though their table of organizations and all of these counties are running successful dish dispatch centers either run by the either run by the sheriff's department or an independent department like in rock county in the jamesville area and their table of organizations i believe are readily available to the both the uh shared services committee and the subcommittee and i believe that this study is really not necessary because of the fact of the input from the successful counties that are doing a single dispatch for 9 11 and i really don't think it's rocket science i think with the people that are on the committee both the county board supervisors the alderman the public members and the professionals from the sheriff's department the police department and the various law enforcement entities and the fire departments from around the uh around shabuagan county that this committee along with the input they've already gotten in the table of organizations from these various uh counties should be able to make a decision i realized that uh 3750 dollars in the scheme of things is not a large amount of money and the county is also going to be paying half of this but i just believe that this survey is going to do nothing but delay the further discussions of this committee and i just don't think it's necessary so i'm not going to support spending the 3750 thank you thank you all the boring alderman susha thank you your honor um alderman born spoke very eloquently on this the subject and i am on the shared service committee representing the city and i'm also on the subcommittee and during both of those discussions when we talked about this issue i voted no to support this and i'm going to vote no again tonight for that reason but just to give you a little bit of background as far as where we are with the situation the shared services committee basically gave the green light to go ahead and move forward with a combining dispatch between the city and the county so the subcommittee was formed to look at this further in depth and overall the chairman of the committee is doing an excellent job he has it very well outlined as far as what we need to accomplish and there's a lot of agreement so far on most issues with the exception of the number of supervisors needed to oversee the staffing there's agreement that we need a total of 24 dispatchers that would be hired and then the question is how many supervisors some information we originally were given relating to apco which is the company they're looking at bringing into consult was that uh they would recommend nine supervisors so what that would mean is that during any shift during any day you would have two supervisors not answering the phone and those two supervisors would be watching the five dispatchers that are working and just supervising them and um i don't think we need to pay seven thousand dollars if we already know what they're going to say and i agree with what alderman born said that um there are so many successfully running dispatch centers across uh the state that we could just look at their tables of organizations and move forward ultimately it probably doesn't matter what the shared service committee decides as far as staffing because the end result would be what the county board supervisors decide that they can afford in the long run so with all that said i am going to vote no against this but i will tell you that right now it looks very positive and i'm very optimistic that we will be combining dispatch centers with the county in the near future thank you thank you alderman susha alderman van der wheel thank you honor i'm on that committee also with alderman susha and and alderman uh graf and i agree with alderman born that that i don't think this study is necessary 3750 for the study a dollar would be too much for the study it's just we have the information available to us the sheriff and the police department they give us their opinion and i respect their opinion on how how we need to staff it and as alderman susha said that when it comes down to it it's up to the county or the city on on how we're going to staff it but we are still looking at the feasibility of it and i think when it comes down to it's going to cost too much the subcommittee is to look at the feasibility of it and i guess i don't agree that it's it's almost a dumb thing i i question that and as far as i'm concerned this is premature because we're not even sure if we're doing it and to spend money on the study might not even happen thank you thank you alderman van der wheel alderman graf thank you honor as it was mentioned i'm also on the this committee and part of the reason this study has has been requested is because there has been a discussion as to how many supervisor personnel is needed and the the members of the shared services committee that did support this and voted this to be done are hoping that this group will be bringing us an estimate of of what a joint or combined dispatch center would need as far as supervision and that's the reason this is being done and just so that everybody's clear it's not 3750 for this study it's 7000 this this 3750 represents one half of the cost of the study which will be paid for by one half by the county and one half by the city of sheboygan and that's the reason this was brought forward um because uh there is that discussion going on and the majority of the committee did say that they wanted this study done so that we'd get some expert opinion as to how much supervision was needed so i will be supporting this and i'm going to call on the next alderman i just wanted to say that once again alderman barnes um great business background kicks in i i um originally felt that uh perhaps the the expenditure should be incurred to to solicit some expert quote on quote opinion on how many people it takes to man but quite frankly as alderman morris stated we can figure that ourselves we don't need to be there to spend 3700 dollars it's to me it's it's it's nonsense at this point alderman kittleson thank you mr mayor i just want to say i too have been attending the city county shared services meetings and i think this is way too important i i think we should support the study um i think it's very important that we have an outside uh an outside group take a look at this and uh give us just an unbiased opinion on what we need here um and that's why i will support this absolutely thank you alderman brian sir thank you mr mayor i also support doing this study um if this is a totally unbiased consulting firm that will give us their opinion i believe that's what we need from what i'm hearing here tonight uh we're not talking about sharing services on dispatch we're talking about the county making the decisions on dispatch um it's up to the county board to decide the number of supervisors that they can afford uh this is not shared services this is giving dispatch to the county uh i do believe that we need the opinion of a totally unbiased organization to give us direction thank you okay we will hold on sir thank you your honor um do we know at what point um the county is taking action on approving there the funding for the study as well have they decided on this the county i believe will be acting on it uh very shortly the the council sort of got a little ahead and the finance committee i should say and approved it and it's there's a story behind that i'd rather not share here tonight but the county i was at the last shared services committee meeting and quite frankly a little surprise at the city had already approved it because it was supposed to go back to the main committee and then back to the city and back to the county well one step's already been taken care of uh but to answer your question it should be coming around probably at the next uh county supervisor meeting i believe okay we will call the roll on 21 75 where they're to authorize 3,700 something dollars to hire an expert please call the roll kittleson clayunas manny meyer montemayor ratki ryan susha vander wheel for hassled boran serda davis graf and hannah five eyes 10 motion fails ordinances introduced 10 21 76 and 21 77 lies over 21 78 through 21 84 to be referred 21 uh through 21 84 to be referred matters laid over 18 20 an ro number 4 11 0607 by the city plan commission recommended vacating a portion of the north south unpaved alley located between north seventh street and north eight street and between bell avenue and gilly avenue all of them want the majority we would just take that one only thank you your honor i move that the ro be accepted and the ordinance be put upon its passage motion and second to accept and follow put the ordinance pass it any discussion there being on please call the roll manny meyer montemayor ratki ryan susha vander wheel for hassled boran burg i'm sorry serda davis graf hannah kittleson and clayunas 14 eyes one abstention motion carries 21 26 and on 0441 0607 by the city plan commission recommended rezoning property located at the terminus of north taylor drive from class sr suburban residential five to class mr eight mix residential eight classification i would ask uh after hearing the concerned citizens that perhaps they do not have enough information uh to ask someone uh some element to please refer back to city planning commission would anybody like to do that motion and second referred black uh back to the city plan commission at which point i would invite you to attend to express your concerns gentlemen thank you any discussion on referring it back there being there being none all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries thank you 20 27 an ro number 40 440 20607 by the city plan commission recommended repealing and recreating subsections of the historic preservation regulations of the zoning code relating to the rights of property owners relating to the designation of historic structures sites and districts and passing the attached ordinance alderman susha thank you your honor i'd like to also take the next document 2064 with it okay and i'd like to make a motion to accept and file the ro's put the resolution and substitute resolution upon their passage ordinance it's an ordinance sorry substitute ordinance put the substitute ordinance upon its passage there's a motion is there a second motion second under discussion um thank you right now the two documents are not identical so i'd like to make an amendment so they both would be identical um if you take document 20 27 and you turn to the second last page right above section three the last sentence reads however the designation of a historic district shall not be effective unless the owners of record of 75 percent of the affected parcels expressly agree to the creation of the district and writing so what they're basically saying is if you want to form a district 75 percent of the homeowners within that district would have to agree if you go to the other document that document went to the historic preservation committee and they changed it to 50 percent a simple majority and my amendment is to make them both identical let's meet in the middle i would amend it so two-thirds of the affected parcels would have to agree so the motion would be to put it to two-thirds there's a motion to amend is there a second to that motion second under discussion thank you um just to to give you a little more background in regards to why this is coming about i know that we heard a speaker earlier talk about how um you lose some impact of the historic preservation committee if the homeowners have the option to say no as of right now if the city decides to create a historic district it doesn't matter what the homeowners say it's up to the council the council will say this is going to be a district everybody in that district has no right other than they have to obey the rules then outlined by the historic preservation uh committee and let me just give you a simple example i've gone through some of the information provided by the state and if you want if you have a brick home that's in a district and you want to do some tuck pointing because you have a lot of missing mortar in between your bricks and you're getting a lot of drafts coming through the bricks and things like that you get an estimate for twenty thousand dollars someone's going to come over to your house grind out the mortar between every brick and put in new more new mortar well that's fine if you're not in a district if you're in a historic district now new rules come into effect in the new rules it says that you have to hire a contractor that's going to hand chisel out all of that mortar so if your initial estimate was twenty thousand dollars to have a mason come in with a grinder to remove all that mortar well now you have to go back and say now how much would it cost if you have to chisel it out by hand so i don't think that the expense that some of these historic renovation projects would incur it's not worth the 25 tax credit because now if you're hand chiseling your estimates probably going to be about a hundred thousand dollars so you're actually costing you're costing too much money to be expended by the homeowner so that's why there's a change to the historic district and then also i suppose we're just speaking on the amendment right now but that's why it's important to have the homeowner be able to say yes i want to be part of this district i want the 25 percent tax credit but they need the right to say no because that is a huge financial burden that we'd be pushing on people within a historic district and they would have no say that it's coming thank you mr. mayor i i think there's some confusion between historic districts and historic properties i don't believe being in an historic district would automatically you would automatically automatically have to abide by the rules of a historic property there is a difference i guarantee you there historic districts have buildings in them which have no historical significance whatsoever i'm i'm the soul alderman on the historic preservation committee and if we are going to have any historic preservation whatsoever in this city to get this ordinance that was originally originally written at 75 percent get 75 percent of the people in this several black white area wherever it may be to agree in writing would be impossible you could not get 75 percent of people anywhere to agree in writing to something that could be the best thing on earth to get in writing so basically uh you might as well just shut down the historic preservation committee and say that she really doesn't care about historic preservation as far as districts go i believe that majority rules now truthfully i don't believe that we should have votes or you know polls to start with but if we're going to i think a simple majority of over 50 percent should be sufficient to get two-thirds again is definitely prohibitive to any type of historical preservation in the city going forward with historic preservation defining historic districts and historic properties are also two different things i believe that every homeowner every property owner should have the say as to whether they want their property to be to have a historic designation to be registered or not i believe that individual property owners have that right however if we have this broad need this large of a majority just to get a historic district we will never have another historic district in the city thank you thank you your honor uh whenever there's whenever there's property involved i get very very afraid when government is not going to give owner of a property say over what's going to happen to that property it reminds me of eminent domain and you know what recently around the country that can of worms is opened where some municipalities around the country come in and want to take over a property so that they can develop it for for more tax base but anyway getting back to what i was saying i was glad to see this language in here that protects the property rights of the owner and i've had a couple of very thoughtful constituents call me on this matter uh with that with that same sentiment that we've got to protect the rights of the individual property owner thank you thank you mr. mayor i guess i i was confused as to why we needed to do this in the first place was the original uh resolution not working that we needed to add this language i wonder if we could if attorney mclean could just address what was originally in place and is it working and why we need to do this um those are clean you have a response sir i can address what we currently have on the books on these sections uh if you look to at either of the documents but primarily if you look to the substitute of general ordinance number 66 0607 uh on 15 15.9156 uh sub a sub three it's on the second page of the ordinance this is what's being added no structure or site may be designated as historic structure or historic site unless the owner or owners of record have expressly agreed to such designation in writing uh that is not in the current ordinance currently um where owners file a written objection then you can only designate historic structure or site it's only effective upon a three-quarter vote of the entire council uh so that's if somebody objects this kind of flips it and says you have to get the owner to consent then the the other change having to do with the historic districts is the language that Alderman sushi read about uh that the designation of the historic district won't be effective unless you have either a simple majority or or two-thirds or three-quarters uh whatever percentage you want to put in there that sentence is new right now uh there's no percentage it's based on uh the historic preservation commission makes a recommendation after having a hearing of creating a district that comes to the council the council has a hearing and votes on it there's no requirement that there be owner input or owner consent so what you're doing is in both of those sections both in historic sites and structures you're putting in a provision for owner consent and on designation of historic districts you're doing the same thing you're providing a provision for a certain level of owner consent before you can establish the sites structures or districts so that's what you're doing also i would uh from a procedural standpoint you've got two ordinances here you've got the general ordinance and you've got a substitute general ordinance uh i think procedurally you want to file one and act on the other and not not modify them both so they both read the same so you're you don't want to pass two ordinances even if they say the same thing it's very confusing if you've got the two documents thank you turn to clean omer gruffer next thank you your honor i'm a question on the amendment looking at the um the amendment was uh was made that instead of the 75 percent it should be two-thirds and if that's supposed to be the same as a substitute the substitute says a simple majority so if you want to make them both the same don't don't they have to say either a simple majority or two-thirds both of them omen sushi and your lights next thank you um first of all i would be willing to change the motion to reflect what attorney mclean has just said if that would be easier please do for procedurally why i was going to suggest that what we need to back up and say that we need to file both our o's file the geo and pass the substitute you can't have them both pass so just file the original geo that's exactly what i mean there you go there's a second to that second under discussion of it thank you now can i continue with amending it to read um that we would have two-thirds of the affected parcels so that would be the motion okay um i just wanted to um answer some questions in regards well uh i worked with attorney uh chuckie adams on this language and it was him that came up with the writing of this um i know that there was some discussion earlier tonight about some some cases that had been presented in other states and i know that attorney adams did do the research and he's the one that came up with the language for this and i appreciate turning mclean for also being up to speed with what was going on this is a i'll be right with you Alderman Ryan this is a tricky issue because it it goes down to the heart of a fundamental principle regarding property rights as alman born said there's been an issue already with with a government taking over a piece of property not for a public use but for a better use which was has been very much discussed and legislatures have acted against it and that's because even though they can take it for best use they will still provide just compensation but it's considered to be a take into that property from from the property owner in this case there will not be compensation and you're going to be considerably restricted in the owner's use of that property and i'll tell you what folks i don't want that to happen to me to me as government intrusion if somebody's going to take my land or restrict its use to the point where it may depreciate i'm going to have to say so about that so i appreciate alman sushi's uh um um amendment and her um her uh time that she had to discuss with attorney check Adams to to get to the bottom of the language Alderman Ryan thank you again mr mayor um individual property owners rights are one thing and that is the provision in this that says that that property owner has the right to have their property on a historic register or not that's good most cities do not have that a city can just designate that yes your property is a historic property and therefore you're going to follow all these rules a historic district is different if you have a property in a historic district basically if this property has any architectural significance so it's a beautiful victorian or a colonial or whatever style architecture it may be it doesn't mean that you cannot alter that property it means that you can't tear the front off of that property and put up a glass wall instead is what it means it doesn't mean that you can't add on to that property what i'm saying is if we are going to have any historic districts in sheboygan a majority of the people that live in that district everything else in this country majority rules majority of the people elect the mayor the majority of the people elect alderman the majority of the people elect our president so why do we need two-thirds of the people to designate a historic district it doesn't make any sense it's too restrictive if it if we pass this at two-thirds we might as well disband the historic preservation committee and basically say that sheboygan doesn't really care about any historical buildings because that's that's exactly what we're doing thank you if i'm right we have one more over many thank you honor my question relates to the historic district and the commentary that mr Lewandowski provided in public forum suggesting that if such districts are formed by the owner's request that that signature event in essence itself is perhaps unconstitutional i want more commentary about that in what measure is that a real living question for us as we deal with this this document attorney please thank you honor i did have an opportunity to look at the the materials that mr Lewandowski referred to that came from the state historical society it's obvious to me state historical society is very concerned about these issues and is concerned that these owner consent provisions have a limiting effect on establishing historic sites and districts and so forth i looked at the case law and it's it's written from the perspective that you know we think maybe this ought to be unconstitutional but everything i read in there nothing says it's unconstitutional to provide an owner consent provision you know i don't think the state historical society likes it but there's nothing unconstitutional about it thank you turn the clean uh one more rehearsal thank you honor this is a very challenging issue for me as well because as alderman borne pointed out we have property owner rights at issue here but we also have the issue of trying to preserve some of the good things that exist here in the city of sheboygan some of the beautiful landmarks so it's a real challenge in my mind this vote but i do agree with alderman ryan that i think 50 percent is probably more practical number to work with here two-thirds or 75 percent is probably insurmountable or impossible so i think 50 percent is a good number or simple majority thank you okay only amendment please repeat the amendment well no need to deserve money no repeat it uh the amendment as i understand it would be to change in the substitute ordinance to go from a simple majority to a two-thirds okay please call roll meyer montemey or ratki ryan susha vander wheel for hassled borne serda davis graf hannah kittleson clyhunas and mani four four eyes and 11 notes motion fails on the original motion somebody want to refer back that back to committee so they can discuss that issue alman ryan yes your honor i would like to refer a back to committee motion second we uh refer black to back to city planning historic preservation would that be okay all those in favor say aye aye any opposed to no motion cares will be referred back to city planning and historic preservation committee alman graff your light is blinking sir thank you okay we have 2046 and 2047 2048 alman graff thank you your honor i would move that the three resolutions we put upon their passage and um specifically therefore establishing estimated revenue and appropriations for donations to meet public library establishing estimated revenue and appropriations for the tourism division events and establishing appropriations for municipal service building boiler contributed from the motor vehicle fund and um establishing appropriations for sick leave and vacation severance in individual cost centers and i would move that all three of those resolutions we put upon their passage motion in second under discussion there being on please call the roll montemey or ratki ryan susha vander wheel for hassled boran serda davis graff hannah kittleson clonus mani meyer 15 ayes motion carries 2055 general ordinance number 680607 by alderman montemayor repealing general ordinance number 374546 which granted jj capsule big company the privilege of encroaching on south 9th street for a pipe rack alderman montemayor thank you your honor i move that the general ordinance repealing the general ordinance we put upon its passage the first general ordinance is not needed any longer is there a second to that second under discussion there being on please call the roll ratki ryan susha vander wheel for hassled boran serda davis graff hannah kittleson clonus mani meyer and montemayor 15 ayes motion carries other matters authorized by law 21 85 will go to public works 21 86 will go to city plan commission 21 87 will be referred to public protection and safety 21 88 will be referred to public works 21 89 will be referred to public works 21 90 will go to city plan commission 21 91 will go to city plan commission 21 92 will be referred to public protection and safety 21 93 will go to law and licensing alderman susha um thank you your honor i was wondering if that could also go to salarine grievance please and to salarine grievance 21 93 and next item on the agenda discussion of possible action on certain pre-closing matters related to purchase of sale agreement between the city and the county for the police station parcel and the parking lot parcel attorney mcclean thank you your honor as i mentioned previously on that monitoring well license agreement this is another item that came up when we did when the survey was done on the the other piece of the the puzzle the parking lot site and i handed out on all your desks at the beginning of the meeting a copy of a survey that the county surveyors office did it shows up in the upper right hand corner a garage if you see that this was news to me but we own a third of a garage on that site that's shared with the owner of the adjacent property that owns two-thirds of the garage there are three bays on that garage that face the alley we had some interesting issues with that number one when we first went over there looked at the garage we found that it was padlocked on the the western most bay which is the one that's ours and hunted around trying to figure out whose padlocks they were it turns out that they were the owners of the adjoining property i talked to the gentleman and suggested he remove the padlocks and remove the contents from that stall and he did so the weekend before last so that's currently vacant the the county had concerns when they saw that this garage was on the site it's frankly not in the best condition and that's being kind i'd say and we're concerned about what they were getting stuck with in in owning a third of a garage as a result we had several discussions on how to address it one my first salvo was to talk to the gentleman who abuts there that owns the the rental house and the two-thirds of the garage to perhaps buy the garage and we would grant him a license to maintain the third of the garage on our property until such time as the garage came down he was interested in buying the garage but was not interested in just having a license on the right to keep the third of the garage on the site he wanted ownership of the land also and i didn't think initially that that was the right approach to take talked with the county and the county is willing to buy the property as is where is as the the original deal with was however i was concerned about if the city building inspectors the day after we closed were sent over there and gave the county orders okay put a new roof on that garage or bring it up the code that they'd have some expense there so what we came up with is the attachment to the survey county is tentatively agreed to this as have tentatively the mayor and i in discussions with the county that we would agree to reimburse the county for their expenses for maintenance repair or removal of that garage or the portion that's on the parking lot parcel up to a cap of a thousand dollars within 12 months of closing i think that's a reasonable approach we had discussions back and forth as to the amounts and the time frames but i think the mayor and i concluded that this was a reasonable amount our time limits capped and the dollar amount is capped the thousand dollars somewhat came out of the air although there's some basis for it i talked to kim verhals the purchasing agent as far as what it would cost to demolish the garage if say you hired field vocal to do it indicated the two thousand twenty five hundred dollars to demolish the whole garage i kind of rounded that up conservatively to three thousand and figured a third was on the city site and it would cost a thousand dollars so that's roughly how the thousand dollars was arrived at i didn't we're hoping to close the transaction on wednesday i did not want to do that without coming to the council and getting approval for that uh i would ask for your support to approve uh that understanding with the county second question second to approve the closing letter the issue down inside corporate city officials any discussion please do we need a roll call spending money anybody want a roll call all those in favor say aye any opposed motion carries other matters 2194 is submitting various license applications for thank you ronner i think it would be appropriate that we do have a roll call seeing that we are spending some money on this so just to keep everything tidy please reflect on the roll call is the direction to that he's going to ryan sushia vander wheel rehassled boron serda davis graph hannah kittleson clioness mani meyer montmire ratki 15 i's motion carries thank you other matters authorized by law or anything 2194 submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2007 and june 30 2008 and 2195 is a resolution authorizing the sale of watt 37 northfield meadow subdivision that will be referred to city plan motion and second any discussion all those in favor say aye