 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Vicki O'Neon Who is a drummer educator and a youtuber who you've probably seen on social media and and all that good stuff So Vicki welcome to the podcast. Thank you Yeah, this is this is gonna be a fun one because you have done an amazing job creating a series On YouTube and on Instagram which you know shared on both on YouTube called drumming through the decades And it is just awesome and very in-depth and very colorful, which is a part of your Your style so why don't you before we start and learn about? Really the you know famous drummers through the decades with kind of an emphasis on female drummers Why don't you tell us about this series? Yeah, okay, so drumming through the decades is a 12 episode YouTube series It's an educational platform that covers the evolution of the drum kit rhythms and genres Whilst highlighting female identifying drummers and musicians So the series starts 2000 BC when all drummers actually used to be women And then it continues all the way up to 2021 And the purpose of the series is to present the female perspective that has so often been left out in the history of music And illuminate the stories of so many incredible women who have been forgotten today So i'm both the presenter and the producer of the series and i've done in-depth research for this And it's been such an amazing journey just to discover all these Amazing women that's been there and so many of them. I had never heard of and i've been involved Professionally as a drummer for the past decade So i'm hoping that this Series will educate people and therefore also reduce gender inequalities within the drum and music industry And this project is supported by the swedish cultural foundation in finland And there is subtitles in english and swedish available and there can also be more Subtitles added in different languages by request. Wow cool. That is uh, you've got your uh Your pitch there down. I mean that is that is great and it's really really cool um Just like you said to be more inclusive and I think there are i'm it's I try to do it on the show and have a lot of have more female guests But um, it is kind of a male heavy world and I think you're doing a great job Of of sort of changing that and showcasing um Really really great female drummers and just you yourself Doing it and being a successful uh working Uh performing which we can talk about your awesome, you know decade long like you said career Towards the end, but So you've got my interest here about 2000 bc It was all female drummers. Well, I don't explain that a little bit Right. Yeah. So this was such an interesting discovery that I had myself when I started to research this series And I was like wow So 2000 bc and even earlier than that Apparently all drummers used to be women because they were the leaders of all artistic and religious activities in society So that would be Natural back then because the drum was considered a feminine object and the heartbeat of mother earth And women were considered magical creatures thanks to their ability to give birth to new life And the drum was a major symbol for fertility and sexuality So they used to use uh frame drums back then made from grain sieves Um, and we have the first drummer in recorded history. Her name is lipu xiao and that's 2000 bc So that's why I sort of reference 2000 bc as a date although this was happening already prior to that And lipu xiao she was a mesopotamian drumming priestess in the city state ur And her role was to be a mediator between the divine and human realms and her emblem of office was a small round frame frame drum called a balagdi so so women were often Almost like shamans both in the eastern and western cultures and they were known to use drumming for healing rituals So that's sort of like the the background really. Yeah, that's unbelievable that I've heard it on on the show a little bit before um on a way earlier episode But I love about the the mother drum and the heartbeat and the fertility and just the importance of all that It's it's in our human nature It really is I listened to that uh interview actually, which is great. Yes. Thank you She she went in more depth into this the early history Yeah, so I'm not going to go too much into depth of the early history. Yeah But it's not something that listeners are interested in I mean that that interview is awesome And that was with angela cells. Um, and that was long enough in ago for me to be dangerous about what I've forgotten I was like two and a half years ago. So wow, I won't try and pretend like I remember a ton I need to re-listen to it. But but yeah, that makes perfect sense. That's a very in-depth Episode about that. All right. So carry on from there Yeah So my series focuses mainly on this past century, but I'm just giving a little bit of background story in the beginning So I'm just Gonna do a little bit more background story But still jumping quite quickly into our last century So so if we move forward in time from 2000 bc and we sort of hit the medieval times, which is around 5th century until the 15th century. That's uh, when all of this changed drastically and drumming During the medieval times became associated with pagan rituals And the church banned many instruments rhythms melodies and priests were now considered the primary musicians And women were forbidden to sing or play instruments all together and were generally given a very oppressed role in society So by introducing these bands women's powers as artistic and spiritual leaders was now completely removed And their voices were silenced So this is where we saw this massive shift And what's gonna happen from now onwards is basically discovering. Well, what's happened since then and how Have women found their way back to the drums, you know, I mean, it's just like that Switch like you said women finding their way back, but talk about how I mean that really set female musicians and drummers back Yeah, and and obviously there's some very Things have been getting a much much better and that was so long ago But it's just amazing how one thing in history can change Uh, so much and it's just how it takes hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years After that, you know, yeah But we had these these women throughout history who's been sort of like Leading their way. So for example in in the thousand one hundreds we had St. Hildegard from Germany Who is considered to be the first singing superstar nun And and she defied the laws around music making at the time and as a result There are actually more surviving chants by Hildegard than by any other composer from the entire middle ages. Wow Yeah, which is which is great. And she also included the sacrilegious tambourine in her practice Man, it's like a medieval version of sister act with whoopie goldberg where uh That's too cool. Okay And then in the 1500s we had Teresa of Avila who was another superstar nun Who greatly contributed to the to the change in views on music and instruments within the church By secretly teaching other nuns to sing and play and she also redeemed the drum as an appropriate vehicle for christian praise and worship So so she was yeah, she she's a very important person in terms of just bringing the drum back into the context of You know not to consider it a devil's instrument anymore. Yeah, it's it's interesting how The church is so closely tied to it where a lot of times in other, you know episodes. It's all about how Like military bands is so important and tied to drumming and the uh, the like Evolution of drumming but this early on it's like the church was kind of controlling Every thing so if you're okay with the church then you're okay with you know to do whatever you want But I guess these these women these pioneering women had to like make it okay Right, right. Yeah Yeah, and and and the military will later on because now we're sort of getting into the 1800s And that's where military drumming was really the precursor to what then eventually became The drum kit as we know it today Um Yeah, so so so there was more and more in the 1800s. We started to see more Female composers like Clara shaman And ethyl smith who was an active campaigner who wrote the march of the women which became the anthem anthem of the suffragettes So we saw more women start to compose and start to play instruments but now we had this We had this idea introduced of masculine and feminine instruments And women were only really performing in private They were not allowed to perform in public and drums were definitely not acceptable for women to play and even string Instruments were considered un-feminine at the time So feminine and acceptable instruments in the 1800s was the piano the harpsichord or the harp So there was a few women who started their own orchestras But they were never really taken seriously and could rarely get get any work Because most men didn't think it was appropriate for women to become serious musicians And another name for orchestras at the time was men only clubs, which is quite interesting bizarre it's like orchestra which now I mean Not even player-wise, but just I think of it not being female to be interested in the orchestra and stuff But it's very gender. It's a very what's a little bit trying to say It's kind of more of a sensitive thing like symphonies and orchestras to go into to go to them I don't think of it as being a big men's club and you go to an orchestra and what you know It's just sort of different there. We can see that the times have definitely changed since then right for sure. Yeah And we had one of the the first documented all-female orchestras is the vienna ladies orchestra, which was founded in 1867 and they did have a members representing all instruments within an orchestra and even the so-called masculine ones like drum bone trumpet and drums And they tore the us, but they weren't allowed to play They just played like beer joints and smaller places like that because they weren't really allowed to play any any bigger places and that was already very controversial what they were doing, but they did go on tour to the us and um That gave rise to some all-female orchestras in the us as well like the fedet lady orchestra Which was an orchestra that existed for over 40 years and had more than 600 women playing in it And and why why they created all-female orchestras was simply because they weren't allowed to play with the men so Yeah, so you wouldn't see cross, you know, like gender Uh performances, I guess really ever No, that came that came later on Think that came sort of in the 20s. We started to see that but prior to that. No Wow, if you the few women we saw What then that was simple simple reason for it because they they literally weren't allowed Wow, it's such a tough thing. I mean you think of these women like traveling in a foreign country That's like, you know so far from home by themselves and they're doing something that's like pushing the limits It's like yeah, very controversial. Yeah, good for them. Thanks a lot of guts. Yeah, yeah, definitely um and as the and as the drum kit is an American invention which we will talk about In a little bit But this also paved the way for female drummers to start entering the scene the fact that there was some more Female orchestras actually That started to appear. Yeah And as women weren't allowed to play the drums It wasn't actually uncommon that young girls would dress up You can see like young girls like orphans or abused children even like Wives and prostitutes that would cut their hair short and dress up in me in male clothes to disguise themselves as boys And join the army So they would become so-called drummer boys because that was that was a place where you where you were allowed to Play drums like we were saying the military was sort of like the primary place to for drumming Crazy, I've never heard that Yeah, and there's for example an English folk song Which is called the pretty drummer boy And some of the words there is like with the fine cup and feathers like why is the rattling drum They learned her to play upon the rabba da ba dum With her gentle waist so slender and her fingers long and small She could play upon the rabba dum the best of them all So there's like songs with lyrics about drummers being women already back then Man, that's so cool. That's I've heard about kids being, you know So much younger and they kind of fake their age and they slip in but like that's that's a whole new element to the history there And and and beautifully sung might I add? Oh, I'm not sure about that. It was good So then when we're moving into them they're like the early 20th century early 1900s um Then we started to see uh vaudeville shows appear which provided cheap entertainment to the new working class And this was a place where women and afro-american entertainers were allowed to uh, we're allowed to perform So so so at least although these shows can be criticized in their own ways kind of like the The precursor to musicals as we know them today um, so But at least these places gave uh gave women a platform Yeah to showcase their skills At least they were Legally allowed to do that there. Yeah, there's definitely some Things that would not be like the minstrel shows and all that that are not great and you know, but it was a different time I guess it was a it's a stepping It's just it's a stepping stone. Yeah that has a lot of things can be criticized about those Places and one of them is for example that that when the vaudeville show owners noticed that Actually women brought a big crowd they they started to sort of Describe the shows as a as a kind of sex show, you know And they realized that this could be a very lucrative market So they started to book more and more women and especially the beautiful ones. Gotcha. So so women has like from get go have The ones who have been playing an instrument have always been There's been more interest in their appearance rather than their musical ability from the beginning there is like in them In the second episode of the of drumming through the decades There is a recital uh like a review from a harpist from the 18th century Whereas like in three words it describes her ability to play She was a great harp player and then for the rest of the whole article It's just uh talking about her appearance and how great she looked behind the harp Showing her full figure and it's just it's always been there and it's still there today I was gonna say that seems that's still kind of happening and it's not very, you know And it and it happens in with male performers as well a little bit where people are kind of like You know the hunky singer or whatever, but it's also it's less like degrading, you know what I mean And if it's it's but yeah, that's not That's just terrible. It's it's been like that forever obviously Yeah, yeah, and and I just hope we will we will get to a point I mean it depends on I guess Which scene and what context today because it's not like that everywhere Yeah, but the people would be appreciated for They're they're playing they're their musicality their musicianship rather than anything else really So just like general interesting facts that was happening around this time Was that like the stepping stone two was the first drum kit was Double drumming where you would have them the bass drum raised up and a snare drummer You would play that with your hands And then we also saw the invention of the first bass drum pedal in 1909 by Ludwig and An early styles of music That was that was popular and that was played with the with the double drumming was ragtime and here we introduced syncopation and these Offbeat rhythms that were so controversial at the time That has then Come to nominate like all music all popular music that we've seen since then pretty much Yeah, yeah, which goes to show everything that's kind of Uh, risqué at one point kind of becomes the norm later. So that's maybe a Sign something good coming down the road Yeah, and it's also interesting to see how African-americans have had The most influence on all music that we've really seen in this last century And how we see these repeated patterns of Them creating something incredible something amazing and at first it's They can't get exposure for that anywhere and then White musicians comes and makes makes it super famous and popular and makes loads of money from it We've seen that so many times the history repeats itself there, which is so So frustrating to see but that's that that's that's the facts of what's happened It is and I don't think that's too like that's not even up for debate. That is exactly pretty much what has happened Yeah, yeah, so another interesting thing just drum related thing from like the tens uh was trap drummers And it's a very different kind of trap from the trap that we know today But it was basically drummers that were Hired to to to play for silent movies or to accompany dancers on stage and they would have a tray With different contraptions on it with like just loads of random sounds because they would have to emulate Loads of different kinds of sounds sounds of trains sounds of barking dogs crying babies and so on so so this Traption tray was shortened trap. So their drum kits would used to be called trap kits and they used to be called trap drummers So that's just an interesting little fact until 1927 when uh, Everything kind of came to an end with the talkies, but yeah um, okay Yeah, so then we're moving into the the 20s when we started to see the early drum recordings and um and we See Dixieland jazz appear Um, which came from the original Dixieland jazz band. That's where the name came from And that was sort of like the the popular music that was played and that was played on the drum kit um, and we also had blues and um, And we had bessie smith for example, um, who is One of the biggest blues singers definitely the biggest one of the 1920s And she was sort of brought up by marrani, which is the mother of blues So so both of them are important women for for the blues. Um, and we also had More all female orchestras that we saw so because bands now started to get more and more Sophisticated and we started to see big bands appear And some of the all female orchestras from the time was called the blue bells the peresian red heads Lil hardens all girl band and harlem play girls if anyone wants to check them out And uh, and the most famous group from this uh era was founded by a man called phil spittle knee And he realized that he could reach success by gathering some of america's greatest female musicians And the group had their own radio show called spit on these hour of charm Which introduced them to thousands of listeners and introduced and inspired a whole new generation of women to pick up an instrument And spit on this group was so successful that its sound and character became synonymous with all girl bands for many years to come After that that's interesting. Yeah, it's it's um, it's so you said it inspired women for generations to come I just think that's so neat because it i'm thinking like God not only to like join a group but like to take the time I'd feel like you'd be a young girl and you'd be like wanting to learn the drums and I feel like a lot of people be like like no, you're not allowed to like their parents or whatever it seems like it's so like Far-fetched at that time for a girl to want to learn that it's like you'd have to like kind of go against the grain and like what Your parents are telling you i'm completely creating a you know this fictitious like Thing in my mind, but you know that I mean that that's that's still happening today And and the difference to that, you know, like I can only imagine I can't even imagine what it was for them back then And and it's just incredible. Like that's why I really really rate These women so much. Yeah, because what they had up against them and Just seeing how the industry is changing today and how many female drummers are out there today It was really exciting to write the last episode because it's like oh my god Like so much has actually changed but without these women paving the way I don't know where we would be today. Yeah, you know, yeah, so for example in this orchestra Uh, the drummer her name was mary mclanahan and she's the world's first female drummer to receive a sponsorship from a large Drum company quetch, which at the time had reputation of making like the best drum sets in the jazz world So so that's like that's like a major Step in the right direction also of a company like gretch to say, okay. Yeah, let's put you on the front cover here And you know, like let's give you this opportunity So the fact that things started happening like that actually for future generations ended up having a big impact Man one point goes to gretch, you know what I mean for Being progressive like that. That's so cool. Uh, what what just to Kind of tie it all in what what year was that like what era are we in right now just to check in Yeah, so we are in the in the 1920s. Okay, still in the 20s. Not mid 1920s. Yeah, that's awesome But phil spitz on this orchestra did go into the 30s as well um, but he was not necessarily it was like there was a lot of um restrictions around joining his band And the women had to meet all sorts of requirements that actually had nothing to do with their ability to play Yeah, so to be in his orchestra you had to be in your 20s You had to have long flowing hair and weigh less than 120 pounds, which is 54 kilos And they were not allowed to marry and they needed to ask for permission if they wanted to go on a date Yeah, I was thinking though about having this guy Running this that he's probably a bit of a creep. Um, yeah He just saw that hey, he could and he did earn like great success from that And and it's a double-edged sword with so many of these scenarios and situations because he did get The you know this orchestra to play to be played heavily on radio Which then meant that they were exposed to a whole new generation of girls that were listening thinking Oh, maybe I can do that too, which is a great thing. Yeah, you know, but at the same time It was probably quite hard work to actually be one of one of the players in his band, you know Yeah, yeah, and knowing this I don't know when you look back on history You see kind of like the the final product But I feel like behind a lot of like famous men and women. There's a lot of just crazy showbiz Stuff that happens. That's just very sketchy. Yeah and and they were also really popular within the army And they often performed for us servicemen on military bases around the world And the idea was the soldiers would find the music suit thing because it was made entirely by women And this is something that we start to see Even more if Like in the second world war, but we're not quite there yet. So I'll I'll take that when we get there We also saw um an orchestra called Marianne Panky's female orchestra And it was a pioneering female jazz group made from exclusively uh from black members Which was even more rare at the time. Yeah And then there was also an other uh all female orchestra which which was called the the ingenuous And they were led by louise sorensen and everyone in the band was a multi instrumentalist And they earned respect as one of the most versatile groups Of their day and their tour setup included 12 baby grand pianos drums banjo accordion wind and string instruments Okay, you imagine going on tour with that. Yeah or not much money at all How I mean like it's just it's unfathomable. It's like how do you do I mean Yeah, that's like semi Trucks, I mean that is 18 wheelers full. Yeah, that's insane And back then, you know we're in the 20s. Yeah, but they did it. Wow Unbelievable. Okay. Yeah. Good for them. That's Again, that's very it's it's harder to do what you wanted to do back then for sure Yeah, yeah, yeah So then we're moving into the 30s. Um, and this is really like the swing and and big band era And we had the stock market crash in 1929 which then brought on the the great depression But although it was like a very difficult time for many People wanted to just go out and enjoy music and dancing and spend whatever little money they had So although the times were very depressing the music of the 30s Most certainly wasn't and we have drummers like viola smith For those of you who don't know who viola smith is She is she was she was known as america's fastest girl drummer back in in in the 30s and uh She and she was sort of known as the female version of gene krupa and she started playing with her six older sisters Um, and she started to perform in the 1920s when she was 10 years old And she's had an incredible career spanning over six decades playing in different orchestras like the coquettes She also played in phil spitton is all girl orchestra Them and they she's performed several times at the ed Sullivan show And she's also received a scholarship from julia. She's featured in many films and she's made the cover of billboard magazine in 1940 um and her reputation as a pioneer amongst drummers is just uh It's undisputed and She is now featured in the in international who is who in music and uh, she sadly passed away last year in 2020 at a staggering 107 years of age, which is just mind-blowing and this is pretty cool today Uh, is her birthday? November 29th. Yeah, happy birthday viola. Yeah, so happy birthday to her. Um, which is just I mean a hundred and even a drummer or no drummer living to be a hundred and seven years old is just Unbelievable. Oh, there's a great interview on youtube with tom tom magazine. Yeah Uh for anyone who's interested when I think she's a hundred and two Uh at that point when she's doing the interview. It's just fascinating and another Important drummer from this era was dolly adams and she was a drummer and multi instrumentalist Who played an important part in the new orleans scene and at age 16 she formed and led her own group Uh, but then a few years later she got married and her husband said that you basically That she will have to stop doing the music thing and be a mom instead So so that's what that's what she ended up doing But she used her musical skills to train all of her kids to play multiple instruments. That's great I mean, that's at least something to keep it's not like you stop wanting to play You know, no Yeah, and this faith was actually really really common for female musicians back then and maybe to to an extent still is today That's like they they had a early career and then they just gave up that for for their families Yeah, play at church or become a teacher Music a piano teacher or something like that. I would imagine Yeah, yeah and something that was interesting also around this time and also before this time was that um female musicians in the 30s actually played an incredibly important role in racial politics And they have been credited for paving the way for desegregation Because mixing races in various situations was still prohibited by law in southern parts of the united states Uh, but several white women preferred the distinct sound of the black all-girl jazz bands And their incredible musicianship So it wasn't uncommon that white women would disguise themselves as black members to join these bands And this actually led to several of them spending time in jail Wow And black and white band members would often discuss the absurdity Of the fact that one would put on very dark makeup and curl their hair Hair was the other one would straighten their hair and put on lighter makeup So that was like an added addition also to This whole discussion. It's just like It's uh, it's heavy, you know what? I mean that like one person wants to be on that side and the other person wants to be on that side And it's just a lot. I mean it's such amazing history Yeah, yeah So one african-american all-girl band that was really popular in the 1930s was called the harlem play girls And uh, it was founded by drummer and band leader silvestre rice and Another group that is very popular from this time is called the international sweet hearts of rhythm And they became one of the biggest swing bands in the u.s. And their drummer poline Braddy was one of the original members of the group um, and they also Toured in europe which inspired bands and drummers in europe female drummers to start playing in europe, which was great um, and as a result for example There was a number of female drummers that joined the uk-based ivy benson all-female swing band So we see this link between the us and the uk inspiring each other already And amongst the women as well. Yeah, you know, I wish there was more video and I can speak Directly about that because I I always again every day. I'm looking for these videos for social media for drum history but like there's not many videos of Female drummers from like the 30s whereas there's tons of like You know gene krupa and buddy rich videos, which are all very you know even Film like we like we said earlier 27. That's when you know even sound for picture came out. So it's still pretty early but There's not that much video into the 40s. I mean really for a long time There's not that much video of these of these great drummers in these early jazz days It's so true and and obviously because I have Videos and pictures along with my series as well. So I've also gone in and try to find Richly like rinsing the internet just to find one picture of this drummer I'm talking about and sometimes it's impossible the international sweethearts of rhythm They have quite a few videos actually Um on youtube and they are wicked I so recommend that you go and check them out because the musicianship is just like next level It's it's really inspiring. Yeah. Yeah for sure So let's move on. Let's move into the 40s. Um, so So we have the second world war and now women are taking over men's roles in society This was happening everywhere, right? And it was considered a their patriotic duty And now some female musicians were asked to fill men's roles in big bands and jazz orchestras So this actually led to many, uh, female musicians going abroad to perform for american soldiers And uh, one of the bands that was playing when the japanese attacked in 1941 was aida leonards all american girl orchestra Um, wow and And their drummer was florins fagle leap man And she she she just she was a self-taught drummer But she grew up listening to musicians like yokellington many good man gene krupa And she was also in new york, so she would go and actually watch them play and that was her inspiration Um, and you can also find some videos of aida leonards all female girl orchestra on on youtube That's so neat to to think about that about filling in those because we always think about like Rosie the riveter like grabbing a wrench and you're working on building an airplane, but it's like filling in on big bands And it's just such a different um thing that you don't think about And the scale that's required to be able to fill those seats, you know Yeah, and in some way it actually worked in In in their advantage because this was the first time that so many people actually saw women play And see like oh my god, like they are amazing, but they had just never had those opportunities prior to this Yeah, and I think it it obviously probably would have and i'm guessing but it would have subliminally kind of people be like Yeah, they're great. We should let them play more, but I i'm i'm not i don't want to jump ahead But I assume once the the men came back it was sort of like all right, you're done That is exactly what happened And i'm just gonna read a little snippet from an article that viola smith wrote just when when the When the war Was ending and it was called girl give girl musicians a break I don't actually have the the exact quotes here But the idea behind the article was that there was so many prejudice against female musicians So so she was just saying that can't can't female musicians actually Get a chance to Stay and do it is professionally just because now you've seen that we're clearly capable of doing it So just let us stay on the scene Yeah, because like you said exactly what happened afterwards was that now women need to To to to go back home and stay in the kitchens And it was that was actually reinforced even more so than prior to the war. Yeah Geez, I mean, it's just so terrible and I think everyone knows that but I'm assuming it was sort of uh It's threatening to like the status quo to like have things change Outside of like wartime where it has to happen, but when everything's back, it's just that I'm sure a lot of the The the men then and I mean speaking as a man I mean, it's kind of I can only guess but it's like Yeah, I'm sure they were threatened. They were like, no, no, no, we'll we'll handle this you go You can't be better than me. I'm the guy you have to I have to be better. You know, yeah yes, and then Just someone I think is worse like mentioning from the 40s is willy may big mama Thornton who was the first known Blue singer to combine her vocal and songwriting talent with her drumming skills So she was also playing drums And she grew up singing in church and she taught herself to play harmonica and drums Which would become a regular part of her on stage performance And peacock records saw her talent and signed her in 1941 And she would then actively perform on the on the chitlin circuit Which was considered a circuit that was saved for african-americans to perform in the days of segregation Sure And then in 1953 she recorded a song that you might have heard of called hound dog Which went straight to number one in the r&b charts and even though it sold more than two million copies She's only ever received 500 us dollars for this. Oh my god And then we have elvi to release his version just a few years later And not only would he you know receive incredible fame, but also a fortune from the same record So here is what we talked about earlier. Here's a prime example of that. Yeah Man, um That is such a a sign of the times And there was another singing drummer as well. Her name is johnny may dunson And she would become become like a chicago blues Legend and she started performing on max wall street, which is the celebrated birthplace of chicago blues and um And in an article in in the chicago tribune in an interview she did She said when I first started playing in chicago in the 1940s people said ugly things about women who placed the blues They said she must not be a woman if she plays the drums and they would call her names and so on So so there's just a little insight of Like some of the challenges that they would have and But still go on and do it and she's uh, she's actually written over six 600 blues tunes in Her over a 60 year long career and she also wrote songs for artists like muddy waters and jim read But she again never got paid more than 50 dollars and often nothing at all for these songs Wow, but she continued to drum and sing the blues until her death in 2007. Wow man, that's a long Long life of just grinding and doing it and there's such a it's it's interesting because there's always I mean historically there's like a thing about drummers like getting paid less than other members Which is like proven going way back but like Add on top of that being a woman In the 1940s add on top of that being a black woman. It's just like man to go all the way up to 2007. It's just Unbelievable Yeah, so do check her out. Johnny may dunce and there's some some cool stuff on youtube as well. Cool. Okay, so then we're moving into the 50s And and this was an era when a new generation teeny boppers got their own identity And we saw rockabilly music and rock and roll that would change the face of of music forever And and so again with this new style of music We see many female musicians struggle to find their place in the rock and roll world um Because it was also something that was considered very a very masculine thing and even the the early Musicians and artists that tried which I will just I will cover some of them They they were people just really looked down on them because they didn't want to see women sing about like freedom and sexuality and all these things which like this these Topics that were associated with rock and roll didn't fit for a woman to to perform So to say yeah, so in the early 50s a lot of female musicians had lost their jobs And this is a success of all female orchestras in the 30s and 40s was now heavily declining And in general opinion according to music trade magazines was the female bands were unable to compete with their male counterparts. Hmm. I mean and also times changed too where uh male orchestras and big bands were kind of becoming outdated a little bit Not I mean they obviously still happened through the 50s, but You know what? I mean where things were changing in general. So for the all female orchestras. I'm sure it was like boy we better start Uh, better start to pivot here a little bit. Mm-hmm And it was uh, there's three drummers that I want to mention from this decade. Uh, k. Carlson is one um, and she received a drum endorsement from from Ludwig and Uh, and and she actually went against the trend of the time and she ended up forming her own 19 piece big band And and they did quite well, uh, which was quite rare at the time Because of it They were an all female band and they were also doing a big band Which was kind of out at the time But they did a lot of like tv shows like Like the spade cooly show and stuff like that Oh, um and rimo drum company gave k. Carlson the excellence in the professional percussion instruction award in 1989 And los angeles times also recognized her for a remarkable trailblazing career that helped open doors for female musicians everywhere Awesome. So that's well deserved Yes And then we have a dotty dodgian who still lives in california And uh, she's another groundbreaking drummer from this era who was an innovator and very versatile in her playing And as a teenager she played with charles mingas and later on with penny goodman and the breaker brothers And she helped to establish many other bands And in her early years she was famous for her elegant brushwork And she had an active career throughout her whole life pretty much until now And she released her own vocal album in 1996 at the age of 77 wow Man passion passionate people yeah And then we have a she lag Pearson on this side of the pond So she's a uk drummer and she was voted the best girl drummer in the uk in 1954's melody maker paul And she played with ivy benson Lena kid courted and the dina d all girls in the fifties and she continued her career until 2004 when she retired in south of England after playing with the sid muth town band as a percussionist awesome cool good to represent The uk there a little bit. Yeah. Yeah And um, and then someone that I hadn't heard of before she's not a drummer, but she's super cool She's a rockabilly singer and songwriter and her name is sparkle more And she's sometimes referred to as the female Elvis Presley And she's had a really like remarkable long Career and in 2010 she was inducted into the iowa rock and roll hall of fame and the same year She also released spark a billy at 22 song collection. She wrote and self-recorded So she's also someone who's had a career since the fifties and still going. That's awesome. Just looking at pictures of her That is like the rockabilly look. I mean good for her. I know she's so cool A really cool songs as well. Check her out. So moving into the sixties right We had soul motown. We had rock with different sub genres So music was definitely developing changing. We started to see more and more sub genres more and more branches from the tree getting diverse, right? and um, especially with motown we had Diana Ross and the supreme's which was one of the most influential groups to come out of motown um And then we also had bands like the marvelettes smart martha and the ventellas the ronettes Aretha Franklin Nina Simone dusty springfield So we started to see a lot more Women in general on the scene. Yeah. I mean the sixties I think the world everything just kind of uh from looking at you know historical stuff It just seems different. It's just a like a seismic change Of everything not to say it got better for everyone Overnight, but but I don't know you still there's still some You you see videos and you hear about female drummers, but it's definitely still a male driven world at that point Obviously. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but there were a few that i'm going to mention now And probably a lot more that i'm not mentioning but a lot more that maybe I don't even know about You know that we're there, uh, but we had the british invasion obviously also in 1963 And um, so I just want to talk about a few like uk drummers more uk drummers So there was a band called the honey combs, which was an english beat pop group formed in 1963 And the group's most distinguished in mark was their female drummer honey land tree and the band's name came from a combination Of land tree's nickname and her job as a hairdresser um And she was a both a great drummer and vocalist and they had chart topper called have i the right And the drums carry an important part of the song And and the effect of the drums was enhanced by members in the band stamping their feet on wooden chairs in the studio So this is also a video that you can find on youtube, for example Well, it looks like she's playing carlton uh drums, which is you know Very british. Yeah, and we had other um, uk drummers like london native tina amose of the british pop group the ravens um She was 16 when she joined the band and their most famous song was i just want to hear you say i love you And then we also had sylvia sanders from the liver birds, which was a band from liverpool that reached huge huge success in germany And then there was also a band called the mission bells who had two drummers lorraine hall and lori brown And then one drummer who is still a powerhouse today is chrissey lee And she's still actively drumming and teaching in the uk today. Yeah, that's awesome. She's been yeah I know and she's been practically drumming her whole life. She joined the salvation army band at h4 And uh, she's played with some of the music industry's most celebrated artists and in 1963 her and her her band the beat chicks Supported the Beatles on their first store in spain Wow, and it yeah, I know it's amazing. I did an interview actually with her Uh a couple of months ago and it was just so interesting to hear all of her Adventures and everything she's done in such like long incredible career that she's had And only last year in 2020 she joined britain's got talent with a jaw dropping audition that airdrop national television Wow Yeah, that's so cool. And it's neat again for me to hear about all these great female drummers that like geographically not even because they're female drummers, but it's just there's like it's hard to find people and other Continents that you might not know about so that's great info Yeah, and then we also had a band called goldie and the gingerbread So it was the first all female pop band that was signed to a major record label And the drummer in the band was ginger bianco um, and she ran away from home at h17 to pursue a career in music And then she met goldie at the trudy heller's club in new york and the rest is history um, but most female bands were ignored by big record labels at the time and Many women hadn't ventured into the world of rock because of the heavily masculine connotation to the style like i said before So gold and the gingerbreads were amongst the first to break into a domain that was really dominated by men And they were signed to deca in 1963 and then to atlantic in 64 So they are definitely someone to check out as well pit pioneers for sure Yeah, it just takes one or two to break through to make it like normal, you know Yeah, yeah, because you know the saying you can't be what you can't see, you know There's so much that goes into that So so we had the second band to receive a major record record deal was the pleasure seekers An all-female rock band from Detroit, michigan and the original lineup included a lead singer suzie quattro Empati quattro with nancy ball on drums um And they became one of the earliest all female rock bands to sign with with a major label And they had Two singles that charted lights of love and good kind of hurt Wow good for them. It's yeah extremely It's it's so cool to hear about what's happening in the world at that time. I'm sure people still were kind of like the men I'm sure they were treated not great like Backstage or just showing up places. They're still kind of looked down upon. I'm sure yeah This episode is brought to you by dream symbols and their awesome new cymbal bag It is a heavy-duty strong durable cymbal bag made for professionals with a nice tread on the bottom And it's reinforced everywhere that it needs to be You have three compartments on it two in the main pocket area and then one separate compartment on the outside of the bag It has padded shoulder straps and a nice handle Or you can wear it with a single strap kind of across your body It fits sizes up to a 24 inch ride, which is really huge And then you can just walk around having the confidence that your symbols are safe in this awesome bag from dream symbols Check it out at dream symbols.com or on social media at dream symbols And then one drummer that we can't leave out is mo Tucker So mo Tucker is the drummer from velvet underground Another epic rock band formed in new york city in 1964 for those of you who don't know and they were managed by Andy Warhol and she was asked to join the band in 65 and it was actually her unconventional style Like playing style that came to define The sound of the band keeping the music rooted in traditional rock rhythms While other members would lay abstract lyrical Images and feedback and other sound textures on top of that it was like her Her drumming where she rarely actually used symbols that just kept it very clean and it created their quite unique sound Yeah And she claimed that the purpose of a drummer is simply to keep time and that symbols weren't Unnecessary for it for this and it would then they would just drown out the other instruments I mean, that's a good point and it's it's I there's bands who do that and it does sound different it just kind of gives it a clarity to it and um, That's interesting that she gave it that much thought and uh A very iconic drummer for sure Yeah, yeah, some say that her greatest contribution was inspiring the idea of women as instrumentalists into the collective rock and roll consciousness Yeah Which is true. You know, yeah, you like you said you got to see it Someone else can do it to have the confidence to then go out and try and do it themselves. So um But again, you have to have that that self-starting person to uh to do it first Yeah, you have to have a band that gets as prolific as to velvet underground that so you get that major exposure It's a lot of aligning of the stars correctly to make it work I'm sure there's countless drummers that We probably have never heard of who are women who just it didn't line up for them, you know Yeah, yeah and male obviously as well. That's that is the history, you know Yeah, yeah, okay. So moving on I want to try to cram as much as possible into into this Because now it's starting to get just even more and more fun and more and more bands are coming on to the scene and And the 70s, um, we had a band called fanny. Yeah And fanny were the first all-female rock band who received a full album deal under a major record label So the the the ones i've mentioned in the last decade that it was just singles for them And they had and fanny had commercial success including two top 40 hits on the billboard hot hundred charts and they also worked as session musicians for artists like barbis tricend and um And alice deburr was the drummer in the band um And she i'll just have a quote here from her when she says that she doesn't think attitudes towards drummers of her Gender have changed much over the years And for the past decade she has kept the fanny name alive via the fanny rocks website So that's a great place to go and check out like archive footage and old music from from fanny. Yeah There's some really cool. There's the iconic video of fanny where it's like they're like the blue background Yeah, which I think most people have seen if they're familiar with that band, but um, yeah good for her keeping it alive Yeah, yeah, it's great And there was another band called bertha Who was who were also ahead of their time? And they formed in los angeles and olivia liver favela was the drummer and singer And each of the band members contributed with lead vocals and harmonies And most of the band songs were composed by members of the group And they signed a record deal with donnell records in 72 and released their debut self titled album later that year And they toured for more than 250 days per year performing with acts like libert mac ellis cooper bb king And liver's drumming is compared to Thor wielding his hammer and female newsletter called her without the doubt the wildest singing drummer of all time and she is Amazing there's quite a few videos actually on youtube of bertha And she's like just imagine janis joplin Behind the kit, you know awesome. I've never heard of them. I've got a lot to look into after this Yeah, yeah, so despite critical praise. This is probably why you've never heard of them A bertha never quite made it and some critics say that the success never came because men didn't really want to hear rock chicks sing about freedom and sexuality and they even They printed out these like t-shirts that said bertha has balls But but people just didn't want to see girls with balls, you know Yeah, they're not ready for that Yeah And then we also had um a comic book which actually sort of helped to inspire more girls to pick up drums They were called it was called josey and pussy cats sure and it was a comic book for teenagers. Maybe you know about it Yeah, yeah, and it's about a fictional all-girl rock band And this became like a saturday morning cartoon by hannah barbera in the 1970s and then made into a feature movie in 2001 And then another band that we have to mention From the 70s is is the runaways It's the first teenage all-girl hard rock band to record and achieve international success And they are considered to be the pioneers of girl power really And they released their debut album in 1976 and uh first when it came out in the u.s Some critics dismissed the band, but outside of u.s. They became superstars and especially in japan And sandy west was the drummer and one of the founding members of the band together with joan jet And time magazine for example has described sandy as the greatest female drummer in the history of rock and roll Wow, that's quite the honor I mean they yeah, the runaways are massive and they have almost this kind of like we don't I mean, I think it's the whole thing, but it's like we don't care what you think we are they seem like the real deal Uh rock and rollers, you know, yeah and it's I I've read The autobiography by the singer shiri kuri. It's called neon angel And oh my gosh, but those girls went true with their manager like He was crazy Geez and they were very young. Yeah, and it definitely messed with them a lot I couldn't imagine. I mean being um, that seems like showbiz in general a little bit creepy older men and like, uh They're I mean they're attractive younger women who are very talented and very popular and it's like that's a recipe for um Possible problems. Yeah So it's uh, I could definitely recommend but and there's a movie also called the runaways, which I actually think is it's really good I think that came out maybe it does a 12 or something. Yeah, I didn't see that. I is it you think it's worth watching I think so. Yeah, I really liked it. I think it's really well done. Nice. Um, and then we also had a Funk and disco and punk, you know, there was so much musically that was happening in the 70s, right? It's just becoming like more and more Diverse more and more to cram in to to one episode. I realized when I was You're doing good. Yeah, we're getting the highlights, you know Yeah, uh, but someone that we absolutely have to mention When it cut in inside of the funk umbrella is shaka kahn. She's the queen of funk Yeah She's actually a really great drummer and a lot of people don't know this But she is and there's some cool clips of her drumming online as well. There are. Yeah, she's uh, Like no joke a very good drummer. Um, like can hold it down We're not like a little not like I'm gonna sit down every once in a while and kind of dabble Like she is like she is a drummer for sure Yeah, and it's and especially when it comes to funk. Yeah, you know, she's got the groove And that's what's needed with funk. Totally. She's amazing. Um Yeah, and then we had disco that saw its rise and its fall all within the same decade Although it still has a lot a super big influence Today on the music and fashion and everything that that we have today And then and then punk is quite Quite interesting actually when it comes to women and making music because of the whole ethos behind punk The whole diy, you know, let's do it ourselves and it's anti so many things anyways So it's sort of there was a platform for women to be a part of the punk scene And especially in uh, so the punk sort of started in in new york With artists like patti smith and then soon after there was a scene that developed in london Which became very very strong Here Yeah, man, you're so right about um It just fits in perfectly with being, you know, kind of oppressed and like being angry It's like the perfect Uh, it lines up perfectly and you know, I'm there's a lot of great female punk drummers too, which which can be very Physically demanding music, you know what I mean to play fast. So you got to have your chops up to to play that stuff Totally totally and it and it and one drummer from the 70s Her name is paul molive And she was the drummer and founder of the all-female punk band the slits Together with viv albertine and aria up and she was originally from spade and she moved to london At 18 and she just became a part of the london punk scene And the slits played gigs with the clash the sex pistols and they were described as dangerous When when they came notorious for their fights on stage and for provoking their audience is that's awesome Yeah, yeah And after the slits she joined another all-female punk band called the raincoats And she continued to have fans like kurt cobain and kourtney love and sonic youth That's awesome people people who respect uh good musicians. Yeah And we also had other female artists within the punk scene like susie quattro susie Nina haggen eixine serranca poli styrene poison ivy lydia lunge Gay black so they were some some women that's worth checking out from from the early punk scene Cool, and then we also had a record label called olivia records Which was the first female owned record record label founded in 1973 by a group of women to promote music made by women That's cool. And we also yeah, yeah And we also had rosetta records which was founded by a woman named rosetta rice And she searched for and produced albums of the early women of jazz and blues to ensure that royalties were paid to the artists so she actually went back in time and tried to like Honor and help the the women from the 20s the 30s the 40s That's awesome to use your power for lack of a better term to like You know you can start a label. Let's represent people who didn't get the opportunity that they had You know or had less of an opportunity. Mm-hmm. It's great Yeah, yeah And then someone that we can't leave out is caron carpenter. Yes unbelievable Yeah, absolute musical legend. Uh, she's described by modern drummer Um As a drummer in full command of her technique assured and full of fire Playing imaginative fails and great hand foot combinations. Yeah Yeah, she's which is true. I love watching videos of her drumming. There's so many good ones Yeah, I mean she's just like you can tell classically trained all around though Just like an amazing musician with a great voice Who obviously kind of had a tragic end to her life, but was just phenomenal as and and that you know, that's like A lot of little kids are probably more Inclined to watch caron carpenter play the drums then maybe like a hardcore punk female drummer Yeah, you know just because like it's on tv and it's stuff like that So that really represents female drummers to the younger generation Yeah, and I think a huge part of her Sad ending to her life is is the fact that The band had huge success and she was literally pulled away from the drums to take center stage as a lead singer Which she never really wanted to do because her first love was was drumming. Yeah, you know, very true Okay, so let's move on to the 1980s. So here we have mtv changing the face of music forever Now we had bands like the bangles, which is one of the biggest 80s all-female bands that mtv helped to launch the drummer is debbie peterson And she's also performed with artists like bonny rate katie lang emily harris and spinal tap actually And and then we also have the gogos, which is one of the most commercially successful all-female bands in history And they are actually the only all-female band ever who has written played and produced their own records Rather than being controlled by typical male producers and managers Wow And their album beauty and the beat hit the billboard charts and is considered one of the cornerstone albums of of new wave music And jeena shock is the drummer in the band And she had a huge influence on on the whole on the whole success of the gogos and in recent years She's also written songs for miley cyrus and selena gomez. That's cool. And I think this year 2021 I'm pretty sure they were just inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame. I think oh amazing. Yeah That's awesome. Um, and then we also have a band called climax um And and they are a self produced all-female rmb and pop band where every member in the band play an instrument And uh their their debut album came out came out in 1981 and it's called never underestimate the power of a woman And they had several chart hits including a top five billboard single i miss you And their drummer is called bernadette cooper Um, and she started the band and she has also done her own diva and a turntable tour after this and and also written a solo album And you can clearly hear the impact of electronic drums in their sound They have some real fun videos online and this is you know, and when the big Drum machines, you know when we have gated reverb electronic drums are really taking over And uh, yeah, and because she was the person who founded the band the drums have quite a prominent feature Which is great. Of course. Yeah, they should Man, I mean the 80s it seems to me like the 80s are More progressive. I mean it seems like it's it's it's becoming more commonplace And less jarring that there's women playing music than let's say the 1930s. Is that fair to say? Oh gosh. Yes. Totally totally totally yeah And then we had amazing people like sylvia robinson Who is considered the mother of hip-hop? She was the founder and ceo of the hip-hop labor sugar hill records which released the song rappers delight Which was the first commercial successful hip-hop song and revolutionized the industry uh, so she's uh Obviously an important person Within all of that then seeing i mean hip-hop is still so dominant today. Yeah And and and she also signed acts All female acts And one of them was called the sequence and they were featuring a teenage angi stone And they had a million selling hit with funk you up Amazing. Yeah, and then we also had uh dramas like kate shellenbach And she was playing with the beastie boys from 1981 to 1984. Yeah, there's a video of that somewhere floating around which um, I mean they're so young Uh-huh. Yeah, this was before they really popped. Yeah, so she's she's on recordings like polywogs 2 and kooky pus But then when they popped and there's this whole Interview with her where she's sort of talking about like how it was quite disappointing that One day she was just not in the band anymore, you know, and then they suddenly like took off Yeah, kind of on topic for what we're talking about, you know, I mean that's not good, but I guess it happened still But after she left the beastie boys, she um, she joined a band called luscious jackson that she actually helped to form as well And then we also have metal in the 80s And uh female musicians often still had the reputation of cute chicks playing music So in response some women formed all female metal bands um, and one one band that was more like a hard rock band, uh But but that was hard that is worth mentioning because they had sister ann and nancy wilson um, and then we also have uh All all female heavy metal bands like girl school from south south london And the original member of the band kathy valentine left to join the gogos um And they had like early recordings went together with motor head and stuff. That's awesome Yeah, and then we also had rock c patrucci who is uh the drummer in the all female glam metal bands madame x and vixen So she that is there's quite a quite a lot of footage online of them and and she's she's wicked as well She's great to to to check out and madame x became known for the visually stunning live shows Described as a brilliant blend of rocky horror picture show with spinal tap moments. That's awesome. That's a that's what you want All right And another metal drummer was carol control duck worth who played for the all female bands precious metal and bombshell Which are also worth mentioning and then we have bobby hall Who is an american percussionist who has performed on records like ain't no sunshine by bill witters Let's get it on by marvin gay edge of 17 by steven x and many more And as a young percussionist she was discovered by motown and found herself Recording with artists like the temptations and deanna ross and supreme's and she's also played with artists like pop dylan carol king jenice joblin johnny michael aritha franklin the doors pink floyd james taylor and the list just goes on and on bobby hall Check her out. Wow So cool. I mean i feel like I am like frantically googling on my phone while we're talking because it's like and i hope people are Doing the same where they can kind of like make a list of all these amazing drummers to check out because it's um It's worth it. It's worth it and it's hard to find this is firsthand like we're getting the scoop here from vicki It's like you can't really find this info anywhere else. So this is this is just great And you can go back though and because all of this will obviously be in the drumming through the decade series Absolutely If there's any name so if you don't have pen and paper now listening to this interview Just go and check out drumming through the decades on youtube And find the decade that you're interested in and all of these People will be listed there with videos and pictures as well. Totally everyone should check that out Okay, so chugging forward here. Yes. So then we also have jody lynnscott Who is definitely worth mentioning because she's worked as a recording artist and live percussionist with so many well known Musicians it's hard to keep track. Uh, and they include stevie wonder ery clapton pati labelle jc and avril la ving Um, and then she's also appeared in numerous films and live concert videos including uh, elton johns live in australia And who's live at giant stadium? Wow man the session musician world is like you don't think of um That many female session musicians, but it's like I guess that's just because even male session musicians You're not really supposed to know that much about them. They're kind of like in the background You know, it's it's kind of cool to know how many women are uh Are are are doing it on their own, you know making that living which it's hard for anyone to thrive as a session musician And today there there's loads of them. Yeah, I know a lot of them personally, which is which is very inspiring So it's great to see that that is really That that's really changed, you know, I feel like so much has changed today actually thanks to all of these people that i'm bringing up now totally And then one person that we definitely just have to mention is sheila II She is one of my biggest inspirations. Yeah Unbelievable and she began she began her career playing with uh, george duke With the george duke band and since then she's played with I mean I don't know how you can even sum up her career Prince and tana ring of star And so many more legends and he's obviously a great artist in her own right with the 80s classic the glamorous live And she's just she's known as the queen of percussion and and what the work that she's still doing today Um, it's incredible. I just saw a video a few days ago On her youtube channel called little drummer girls where it's her and then it's sarah Thor Who is an amazing drummer. She's doing lots of stuff with dr. Mio right now and then there's also two kids Uh, it's janeva london who is a a young drummer from london and then sheita And they are doing a cover the four of them together and it's just bad. That's awesome. She is like I mean, it's almost that buddy rich level of like A household name. I mean, which is hard to achieve for anyone, but it's just like she just pushed everything forward She was like a a monumental shift in like, oh, I can do that and I mean, especially as like, uh Hispanic woman. It's just like it's just even that much more special and come and play with prince I mean, which most people kind of think of that era and like drum solos and high heels. It's just like It's madness. I know Okay, so Let's I could talk about Sheila forever. Let's move on because there's so many more People I still want to mention and I know that this is getting long now. Uh, okay, so, um Let's move into the 90s And uh, and let's just start off by noting that the 90s was truly the decade of the female where women had Careers that affirmed their independence and they were confident in their own skin And in what they could accomplish and in music we started to see women everywhere We've had everything from Spice Girls Madonna Mariah Carey dominating pop charts to garbage No doubt Ellenice Boris said killing it on the rock side and it hasn't been a better musical Decade for women really and we also saw bands such as whole l7 and bikini kill That demonstrating on stage and in interviews a self-confident and bad attitude So-called bad to the challenge assumptions about how an all-female band should behave and how girls should behave So we had uh drummers like pati chamal who played drums in whole Which was founded and fronted by kourtney love um And then we also have drummers like d placas who was the drummer in the american grunge band l7 They achieved major success in the 90s and actually reformed again in 2014 and the band has been described as one of the One of rock's most volatile and respected acts with the sound that is unique and unforgiving. Yeah So yeah, so and they and they um The actual the name l7 comes from a slang term for square and was deliberately chosen as a gender neutral sign And in 1991 they they formed a broad choice women's rights group called rock for choice Which for a decade held concerts. So they were essentially like concert Promoters and they were featuring artists like nirvana, right of chili peppers the bangles reached against the machine And there is a documentary about the band l7 which is called pretend. We're dead at premiered in 2016 Cool. Yeah, they're they're huge. I mean they're Iconic Yeah, and then we have a for non blond with don richards on on drums Um and their album bigger better faster more spent 59 weeks on the billboard charts And the album's second single what's up became a massive radio and mtv hit receiving golden platinum record sales Then we have the riot girl movement Which is an underground feminist punk movement that played a key role in changing the musical landscape Scape of the 90s by introducing women's perspectives on frustration depression and anger And we have bands like bikini kale bratt mobile l7 is also a part of this and huggy beer And they are associated With the movement addressing in their music issues such as rape domestic abuse sexuality racism patriarchy and female empowerment um And this movement started in olympia washington with young women who created Garage bands and homemade magazines so-called zines That covered a range of political and feminist topics and riot girl blasted feminism into the future Centering the needs of a new generation by exchanging manifestos and promoting a do-it-yourself Culture and music was the vehicle for for this Hmm That's so cool. It's and it's riot g r r r l Right like right girl. Yeah, that's awesome. That's um Again, it takes a lot of guts to to stick out like that But it almost feels like with that kind of like music a lot of frustration a lot of like we're angry from all this stuff That's been happening and now we're going to do this on our own Yeah, and we can again see how punk really sort of created that vehicle and gave space for that. Yeah And and by the mid 20s, uh, the riot girl movement was receiving constant attention and misrepresent representation by media which eventually actually Kind of killed the whole movement But the seeds were sown for a long lasting impact and then in the early 2000s At that inspired the international girls rock camps that now inspire girls and other gender minorities Rock all over the world and that movement is just growing and growing. That's awesome. I didn't know anything about that The rock camps and stuff like that. That's even more. Yeah, it's called girls rock girls rock camp alliance Is the international body and there is hundreds of camps all over the world literally that that creates music camps for Girls trans and non-binary youth and adults as well and i've been a part of Starting up girls rock london in the uk and rock donna in finland And the idea behind these camps is that you you don't need to have any previous musical experience You can do but you don't need to you come to our camps. You learn to play an instrument You form a band you write them you you write an original song with that band and you then perform it at a final showcase Six days later. Wow, that's awesome And that is mixed like just with a lot of other interesting programming throughout that week And it's all about creating a safe space for For vulnerable young people to come and express themselves And and give them a chance to do that in a context where they might never have been able to do that before That's so cool. What a good cause. I'm sure people listening right now are Either female or have daughters or that applies to them. Um, so they can Check it out. Absolutely. Because that's such a cool. Definitely Check out girl girls rock camp alliance and on that website All the membership camps all over the world are listed So then you can see if there's a camp anywhere near you So cool and i'll share the link in the description Uh, so people can find the main website and go from there Great, great. Oh, so another Band, uh, that is worth mentioning from this era is the donna's They were another pop punk band from california from the 93 and tori castellano is the original drummer And she was later replaced by by amy, uh, kisari And then we also have cindy blackmanson tana And she she's both known as a jazz drummer with her own band That's that's how she sort of started off But then she became a rock chick in the 90s when she teamed up with kravitz And she stayed with kravitz for 11 years touring the world Which also gave her the opportunity to perform with people such as james brown prince mc jagger iggy pop And today she's best known for her work with her husband carlos santana Who she met while she was on tour with kravitz And she has established a reputation as an innovator who's always experimenting and pushing creative boundaries And she's incredible. Yeah, she's a monster drummer And she has some great sections in the new count me in documentary on netflix. Um, that is awesome. So yeah Very good player that documentary is very inspiring. Yeah, very well done. Yeah Okay, so Three other drummers I want to mention from the from 90s is debba dobkin She's a percussionist who can be heard on numerous recordings and live concerts with artists like bonny rate Elton john melissa ethridge don henley and share And then we also had linda mc donald And she was the drummer and co-founder of the all-female heavy metal band phantom blue And and the band got signed for their incredible musicianship and linda was given much credit for the band's energy style And sound and she's considered one of the best drummers of the 1990s And in 97 she won the best drummer performance and drums award at the la music awards And then we also have juanita para corea and juanita para corea is the drummer in los caivas from chile Who are considered one of latin america's most influential bands of all time and juanita's dad gabriel para was the original drummer in the band who sadly passed away in a car crash And juanita started playing the drums at age three and then she took over the drum throne after her dad And she's the only woman who has played in the band over its 60 year history And she's known for her distinctive style of mixing latin and progressive rock awesome Now we've hit the 2000s A lot of things changed, you know with the launch of youtube music sharing sites like itunes Uh diy promotion sites like my myspace and the rise of tv talent shows like x-factor You know like the music industry just had to remodel like never before. Yeah Yeah gender like It's like unbiased gender wise at that point. It's like everyone's got to change the entire industry is is upside down Yeah, yeah, so true And obviously pop was was huge, you know madonna pink Shakira lady gaga the list goes on Um, I just want to list a few pop drummers female pop drummers. So we have shawnee wreck Uh, who is most known as shawnee baby and she's considered one of the top female drummers Supporting some of the decades chart-topping pop artists like the pussycat dolls nicole sure singer and hillary dove She started her career by setting up an all-female band in school called pleasure And they toured with artists like salt and pepper and queen latifah And she has written a book called the female musicians guide to surviving on the road Which is worth checking out. Oh, yeah And then we have beyond say Uh, who did her first ever world tour the beyond say experience Where she put together an all-female band that she dubbed that she named the sugar mamas And she hand selected 10 female musicians at the top of their game Which included bass player divinity rocks and some of the uh the dramas that she had Who are just insane and amazing are kim thompson Nikki glassby and marci chapa. And then we also have tori costilano Who's the drummer in the pop punk band the donas? Which I already mentioned earlier. Yeah, which I'm like I didn't know the donas formed in 93 because it's like I think of like early 2000s Right, right. And that's why I bring them up again actually in the 2000s Long uh, they stuck with it Yeah, they did And then I also want to mention country because country music is something that is It's so it's so big, but we haven't actually seen um Too many female drummers within the country music seen And it continues to be a rarity in country music with a few exceptions So we have a drummer named lisa pancras And she's one of the top country drummers today and she's worked with a lot of famous country acts And michelle joseph is another fascinating country crossover drummer And she's also performed with artists like emily harris and etha james Interesting. Yeah country. That's that's a really good point because like it's very steeped in like tradition And I think you hear about things where it's like, oh, they can't x singer can't be in the uh Like the country like music awards because of this reason or they're not allowed to do this because of this and it's it's I'm sure it's the same for drummers But right and maybe that's why we don't see so many female drummers. Yeah in yeah in that genre. Yeah Yeah, I think you're right. Okay, and then we have some some harder hitting drummers I just want to mention here as well and we have stefanie eulenberg And uh, and she she's the she's the drummer in the all female band Vixen which I mentioned before so this is another drummer that was also in the band And uh And she and she's also like later on she so she she's also playing with kid rock And kid rock has gone from new metal to hip hop to country balance So he's been a very versatile role to feel behind the drums and her drumming style ranges from like wild hard rock and heavy metal Drumming to gentle country drumming. Yeah, she also includes electronic sampler pads in in the live performances And then we also have a drummer sensation matel cohen Which is one of the and she's one of the founding members of the american heavy metal band matel She moved from israel to la at the at age 20 to pursue a career in drumming And she's actually like she really blew up on youtube And that was after posting an audition tape for america talent on her youtube And suddenly she found herself for youtube sensation. Yeah, I started uploading more videos and today She has almost two million youtube followers And she has also done a studio album Called alchemy and that peaked on the billboard and hard rock charts And she's also released an instructional drum dvd set and digital training pack named maximum matel for anyone that wants to check that out She's amazing and just like i'm sure it's going to come up in other spots But like the youtube thing it seems like it's like you have the opportunity as a guy or a girl or Whoever to like not be held back by Yeah, some management or something. It's like if you and you know this I know this No matter what you're doing on instagram or facebook or youtube or podcast. It's a ton of work And if you put in the work Then um people typically will if you're good and you know if people like it They'll they'll they'll kind of come to you and there's nothing holding you back now with with youtube Which i think is just amazing It's amazing and actually a big part of my last episode of this whole series is talking about that Then it's talking about how the the industry is really changing and how and how we actually now see so many more Women than we ever have before and influencers, you know women online are really taking over And and it's interesting. It's an interesting phenomenon that is happening now totally Absolutely, you're part of it. I mean for sure without a doubt you are part of it Doing a good job So before we get there, I just want to mention meg white don't even need to say much about her She's also someone who's definitely just worth Bringing into the conversation because because of the exposure that the band got and also because Anita she gets a lot of stick because she only started playing the drums as she joined white stripes, you know Yeah, but is she in some ways also demonstrated that you know drumming is about Holding down a beat, you know, yeah, you know, she almost gets the like the like Ringo treatment where people will be like ringo is not a good drummer and it's like yeah He is well, I think ringo is an awesome drummer and so is meg white. She's like I don't know. She kind of gets like the butt of like a joke almost where she's so Basic with what she plays but it's perfect for that band for the exactly. That's what why is their music so huge? She's a big Part of that. Yeah, what not to play is almost yeah, it's important of what you play. I couldn't imagine it being more showy and like even more symbols than there are and and just um, it's it's perfect Yeah, it's a little bit like the mo Tucker philosophy, you know, yep And then we also have Samantha Maloney who is also in that documentary count me in yes And she's also someone that is definitely worth Mentioning and she she's been playing with medley crew for example and she's the drummer on their live dvd Of the new tattoo tour and she's talking about how she got that gig in the count main documentary, which is quite interesting. Yeah And then we have Karla Azar and she's a drummer and multi instrumentalist And she played in the alternative rock band auto lux and she's also toured with jack whites touring band the peacocks After the white striped when he went out Then he had like an all-male set up a lineup in an all-female lineup all out on tour at the same time Yep Yeah, I think that's it from the from the 2000s So then we're moving into this last decade and current times and And it's it's it's interesting. It's weird and interesting times that we We live in there's been like a big social and cultural shift in areas of women's rights and gender equality as well as technological shifts in music and drumming And the past two decades of rapid innovation in digital technologies have disrupted the music in business at every level And technology has changed how people create and listen to music composers can now produce film scores from their home studios and especially also with this global Pandemic that we've had musicians had to really rethink How they can reach their audiences and we now see more musicians play for fans around the world through live stream Performances and just using social media like we talked about really as a as a powerful tool And we've also seen a massive upswing with with huge influencers on social media Which is giving a new path for female drummers to make themselves heard And this in turn inspires a whole new generation to pick up the sticks and start playing because they can finally see role models That they identify with on a bigger scale than ever before And we also see studies in the positive impacts of drumming on our well-being Which I think is amazing. Yeah, and that's something that is becoming More and more I hope that more and more people will pick up the sticks Not necessarily to think that they will become a full-time musician But just because they know that it will make them happier. It will improve their their well-being. Yeah I mean, it's like physically good for you. It's it's everything and I mean that's again that's a cross that's for any anyone but The the accessibility to people too is so much like we just kind of mentioned a couple minutes ago with youtube Like I think of when I first saw you It's so weird how like one video that's like I think it was a video and i'm sure you know what i'm talking about where it was at naam I think Or something and you're sitting there and you kind of have like tinted glasses and you're playing Yeah, and it's like I think it went viral and and it showed up on everyone's like social media but Then you're like Then I knew who you were and like as opposed to it being like on the radio or something We're like, I wouldn't even know who the drummer was. It's just such a cool opportunity Yeah, and then fast forward, you know a year or two or whatever however long that ago was and like now We're doing this interview. It's just such a smaller World and I hope it's amazing more inclusive. It seems like it is. I mean, what's your take? As we kind of are coming towards oh a lot more Inclusive and I feel like You know all these big entities like the bbc for example I can see how they are really putting active effort In their programming to represent more more diversity on the screen Yeah, you know and that and I and I know that from like gig offers that I've had or gig offers that my mates have had I can see it. I can actively see it changing as of Literally the past sort of four or five years So it's it's it's quite new where I can but I can see that there is like really active effort to put into that Which is incredible. It makes me so happy. Yeah, for sure And I just kind of was like looking real quick to it. I think it was the welch tuning system video Where you're playing is what I was talking about. So that's just I didn't even know you've seen that I don't know why it must have gotten shared on one of those like Pages that and again, it's like maybe on drum talk tv Yeah, I'm sure and that probably reached a ton of people. Um, so you never know and I've seen that with other female drummers Other men as well But like female drummers where like there was one video of like a cover and then they just kind of blew up and now they're like a part of the like The scene So it's it's a cool talking about blowing up through social media Nandy bushel 11 year old nandy. Oh my god. She is a social media celebrity Who's taken the world by storm with her drumming skills and she's achieved more than most drummers would dream of in a lifelong career Performing with musicians like lindy kravitz like performing with the foo fighters with david grohl I was crying when I watched that video. It's so cool. Yeah, and it and it gives me so much just like Faith and and hope for the future. The future is really exciting I think when it comes to drummers and we see some other incredible kids on the rise as well including yoyoka Geneva london cheetah Annabelle there's like a few of them and they're all active on on social media Because that's that's that's where we're at today. Isn't it? Yeah, totally and people love to see Uh, really talented kids. I think that that goes back to You know, 100 thousands of years ago people like when a kid is good at something but now we can all see it and uh and share it and and hopefully be positive in the comments, you know what I mean and and um and just kind of praise them and and hopefully keep it going because there are some Uh in a good way freakishly talented kids out there now Oh, I know it's scary And then just a few other drummers. I'm just gonna mention their names because there's like so many today, you know um, but also in the last episode of Of drumming through the decades I will have a list in the description of more drummers that I couldn't even fit in and mention in this episode Just because I want people to go and check out all of them and and I wanted to feature all of them But it was just impossible, which is a good sign. That's a great sign. You know But a few of names. I'm just gonna drop is annika neils. Yeah Teresa say katelyn califers helen de la rosa Emmanuelle caplet pocket queen madame gandy Cora Coleman dunham uh darkest curry jordan west lada or obradovic lee paying val seppulveda And then some uk drummers. We have hailey kramer louis barthel africa green simone odara nail holly madge asia jigeli lucy landinmore sarah lee show ree williams lee gerard lea geraldine remi graves venessa dominic And so on and there are so many more on this list, but that's just a few. Yeah are all Incredible and and very inspiring totally follow and follow their journey vicki. Oh neon. It belongs on that that list and I mean you you are kind of the Exactly along with all those other great female drummers. I mean you kind of embody the Just what it's all about about trying to represent, you know Your let's you know your people and like make it uh bring it to the forefront and you're the real deal I do want to say that because I mean you are a working Hardworking, I mean even you haven't like a very cool image, which as you know I'm sure everyone's probably seen you but you can guess that it's very neon and it's Mm-hmm Yes, it takes a lot of work. I mean you're you're You uh, I'm a total workaholic. Yes, I can tell but I'm just happy to have found something that I'm just so passionate about and I love And it's and it's drumming, you know drumming. It's the first drum Is on on earth was the heartbeat, you know, it's it's inside of all of us There's such an incredible thing to be passionate about You know and then and then Yeah, we are we're so lucky and and then being a woman It only comes naturally to me to then bring the stories of of women to the forefront and really inspire other women and And learn from women before us. So it's a beautiful Combination of of of these things that I get to do. Yeah, man very well said so, um This has been an unbelievable episode that if I'm hoping, you know, people have loved it as much as I have because it's it's given so much like Uh homework to to look into for so many great drummers. Um, and I will share In the description, um, I mentioned something before that I'll share. Oh for the drummer the girl alliance and then I will, um Also share the amazing, you know, youtube series drumming through the decades and vicki's website and all that great stuff, um I amazing. Yeah, vicki. I appreciate you taking all this time because I mean, it's like you're five hours ahead of me So it's you know, 10 30 or so there 11 30 it's 11 30. My math is wrong So thanks for for you know, yeah, of course I'm I'm happy that I can share this and the more people that hear this and can be inspired by it It's great and I also wanted to say that there will be a split in the last episode of of drumming through the decades There's a lot of links in that description as well to platforms that are there Today that people can join that people can become a part of That's great because people don't know if they you know, you got to help Direct people in the right, uh, right direction, which you have done this entire episode. So Yeah, vicki. Well again, thank you so much for um, kind of hanging out late with me in your neck of the woods and um I'm excited for people to hear this and hopefully one day we can meet at one of the conventions or something and that would be a blast Oh, yeah, well, thank you for being there. Oh, thank you for having me If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning