 Thanks for joining us at Think Tech Hawaii. We have the good fortune of having with us today Professor Vernita Randall, Professor Emerita of the University of Dayton School of Law and prior to that with a career in nursing as I understand it. That's right. Brings a variety of backgrounds to us and one of the leading experts in nationally and internationally on race and racism in the law and has a wonderful website racism.org on which you can find all kinds of materials, articles, perspectives, insights about race and racism. So welcome you to that. Thank you. Tamon Pichella, Think Tech host and Rockham Tour and Good morning Chuck. Thank you. All that stuff. I figured today Professor Randall because race and racism are such a well-developed expertise of yours that why not talk about the one thing that the media and the candidates are not talking about in this election and that's race where we are, where we're going and what these elections might have to do with any of that and how they might be impacted by it. So Professor Randall, you want to start us off? Well I think that's thank you for that introduction and focus on it. I think one of the things that has been a great frustration to me is even though I live in Florida, the discussion around racism and what to do about it and all the communities are affected the Asian community, the Hispanic community, the Black community and the what has frustrated me is the Democrats focused on saving democracy. That I mean that is kind of like a non-starter for communities who are suffering from hate crimes and not being able, economic issues that that are disparate for them are voting even. I mean we're the whole issue of gerrymandering and the millions of Americans who cannot voice their vote and then obviously you know for me one of the racial issues I believe is the failure of the two-party system to actually allow really diverse political views in it and that turns a lot of people off. So yeah the discussion the overt discussion about racism is always kind of low at all times. There's just an expectation that communities will turn out and vote without regard to whether their interests are really being met. And those are great insights and perspectives. It's a little hard to talk about saving democracy for people who are living on the outside of what could even be called democratic and egalitarian opportunities for housing, education, healthcare, voting and other basic rights. And Tim we touched on a few of those things in your great think-tank session yesterday. Put your thoughts on where we are, where we headed and what this election may have to do with it. Yeah I agree that this election is pretty much silent on on the racial divides in this country. I agree that there are actually many things that that are you know particularly focusing on on racial issues particularly the restrictions of voting access and how that impacts minority communities greatly. And those issues were discussed oh maybe five months ago but they certainly haven't come back to the forefront now that we're this close to the election. What do I mean by that? Certainly the many states that voted in election restrictions be it you know shortened days or hours of voting access no assistance once someone's in line. Those kind of tactics that are overtly designed to impact minority communities and and their their desire to vote. Jury Mandarin was mentioned and I agree that it's ridiculous on how these Jury Mandarin lines have been drawn these districts drawn that basically cut the vote out of the representation out of the voting process. I look at things that are just appalling specifically DeSantis's cheap stunt the trick to lie and cheat his Venice Waylands onto a plane and dump them in the middle of Martha's Vineyard. I mean what a what a tactic that was and how insensitive and how cruel that he basically pulled that stunt off and really not a lot of time air time to address that and the impact to a minority community certainly a desperate minority community looking for legal access legal legal asylum process and they get treated like that. So not a lot of air time this time around and again the Democrats are focusing in on an important issue and that is you know a potential loss of democracy through you know what I call the MAGA GOP and their tactics but certainly there's room to talk about these things a lot lot more. Well what frustrates me about the discussion of the potential loss of democracy is that my son my oldest son gets frustrated with me when I say this he says it shuts down conversation but when somebody says democracy to me my point of view is we don't have never had a democracy and the idea that what we're going to do that the Democrats is going to save democracy we don't have a democracy we never had a democracy in the sense that we have had a system designed where everyone could vote there that has never been and in the early days only landed white men could vote not not even landowner landowner white men exactly exactly so you know and that was an intentional design the idea I mean you know think about it no right to vote in the constitution no right to vote in the constitution do you think that the people who started this didn't understand that when they that the right to vote was essential but they didn't want to have to give the right to vote to everyone because they were elitists who thought that they knew what was best and they didn't want the masses coming along and voting again them and that view continues it has continued and uh the I so I I mean the frustration for me is when we talk about saving democracy we're not we're talking about saving this system that is designed to protect the elitist vote and I'm sure that's worth saving uh maybe we ought to just get to allow it you know to go as bad as possible and then start over somehow and I don't know how that is but I think what we have is not working well and that's a great point because not only do we not have a one person one vote system we don't even have a system in which all people regardless of background education ethnicity disability or whatever they can vote so we're a long way from that but you make a good point about the constitution as well the constitution does not say the choice of the governed it says the consent of the governed those are two different things particularly coming from a landed wealthy white elite that created that constitution and a landed wealthy mostly white elite that seems to be trying to take it back to where they wanted it to be at that time and Justice Alito in particular but Justice Thomas and others as well so Tema how do we move this forward Toro that's a real they've been trying to move it forward for 245 years and that's the bottom line is that this system has been built on preservation of economic preservation for the those who have the power and economic preservation ties into power preservation and only slowly very slowly in a civil war and women's suffrage rights and now you know gay marriage rights have have we've been able to slowly slowly try to distribute that power in the form of a vote or in the in the form of recognition of their dignity and their legal rights within our united states so 245 years is a long time but in comparison to a lot of nations in this world it's a you know it's a it's a it's a drop in the bucket how do we keep it going is is is is the media has to point pinpoint those areas where inequity exists today be it in schools be it in employment be it in voting rights and a shining shining light on those inequities those blatant points of discrimination which now in the last five years thanks to Donald Trump is popular again make america great again i think is make america racist again and i think chuck you and i spoke about this the other day and you know i'll make a distinction between the mega gop and the old gop the you know the gop that was reasonable and would see and work across the aisles trying to pass legislation but the mega gop seems to be attracted to the types of don donald trump for for specific reason and i believe it appeals to their inner racism i believe it appeals to their sense of grievance that they've been shoved aside and donald trump has appealed to their replacement theory concerns and that is how he got his base and that's how his base has spread even to the normal gop um and it's a factor that i don't know how to break uh it's it's a problem and this kind of racism needs to go under the rock in which it belongs it certainly is uh you know the thing is is that it definitely the the overt racism that trump has uh permitted to come back uh to become visible because it never was gone never did the the the issue is this i i think i'm in my 70s so part of what i think has happened is that the grandkids of grand of people who never liked affirmative action and felt hot and in and all of the stuff that went that that was uh i'm using affirmative action as a as the generic term for racial justice they didn't like all of that but during the 70s they were sort of powerless to do anything during the 80s the process started to design to empower the existing system to get their power back and the democrats worked with that by moving right instead of left so every time we get a democrat in power they pass some laws that are helpful but they also pass laws that appeal to them right and so then they they move their party right uh so part of the problem i think is is that the democrat in terms of what they're doing on is really not distinguishable in the middle from the republicans and so it's when you're concerned about all of this other stuff are the the not just the whites but black and hispanic and asian and native americans are have some some of them not it's a lower percentage have the same concerns and so they move right too i think that the only thing is to really have a left party to really be able to offer really progressive ideas uh and that would you know empower the the that give the people a real choice in terms of difference and i don't know how we get that uh you know the green party has done some stuff the socialist party has done some stuff but we we unfortunately have not been able to fill a power base on the local level uh that is disruptive and i i don't know how we disrupt the current system because even if we push the overt democrat overt races back under the rock that doesn't deal with the color blind races uh the covert races and all the system and institutional racism that comes from democrats and republicans uh i mean the republicans are clearly the policy of the the party of the overt races but the democrats are a party of the color blind overt races so i don't i don't know how we deal with that so let me ask a strange hypothetical question who what if us politics the parties like those in most of europe were split what if you split the democrats into progressives and moderates and the republicans into right wing maga and moderates would that be better for the choices that we would see we would need a constitutional change that got rid of the electoral college we would need uh some kind of change that are shared representation in the senate we need a change in how the senate is set up and we need we would need a change in the supreme court to make sure that there is representation on the court according to all of the parties represented if we had that then what we could what i think would happen in the uh presidential election would be uh not they would have to form a consensus government and to because they would have to do that they would give and i think this in some foreign countries were in order to form a coalition government they give something to the minority rep parties so like we want we're the minority party we helped you get elected we will help you form your party we want representation in the department of education we went ahead of the department of education that's our payment for helping you form a coalition government i think that i think those kind of changes uh would be very good country um um but i don't think that the things that i said need to happen would happen so what are the obstacles to moving in that direction what are the power groups that are going to resist that and maintain the status quo because it serves their interest best uh you know i don't think we have a democracy and i agree with your position on that i think we have a plutocracy corporations are running this country and they have for for since the 1900s or even before then uh they weren't made called corporations but um you know seen it to me teddy rosewell tried to do something about that and tried to break up some of these mega companies that were controlling congress controlling who got elected and i don't think it's any different today it's just a little bit subterranean especially with citizens united uh dark money it's alive and well so i don't see a whole lot of change coming to disrupt the status quo not for one moment and one of the things tress around only you alluded to that we've seen is that historically from the 30s with fdr up into maybe as long as into the 70s there was some movement in some areas toward more democratic opportunities or some of the groups that have been excluded more systemically in the 1980s with the advent of reagan trickle down economics and concentrated republican power and strategy on restoring the prior system with power elite and the exclusions of the groups that had previously been excluded is that what's still happening now i think they have access they successfully design a set they successfully block the develop in the 19 early 1900s there were more parties who had more success in terms of affecting outcomes and that what has happened not just with the not just with the republicans but the democrats for instance the democrats and republicans have worked together to uh put in laws that make uh third party representations uh independent representation difficulty even on a local level uh and democrats have worked to continue gerrymandering and so the democrats and republicans have worked together to strengthen the existing system to exclude uh the success the ability to be successful i got my uh vote ballot to vote and i i just threw it away i frankly threw it away because there were no choices for me there are any and there was not even the ability to write in which i'm like okay you for in some cases the person running and i what am i supposed to do vote for that person for governor there was the santus and chris christ is the republican who went became democrat just two years ago what i'm you really think i'm going to vote for republican because they called himself a democrat and there was at least he's at least he's a reasonable republican only because he's out of power right i agree with that once he gets in power he won't be as crazy as uh the santus and how he talks but he one of the big problems with our system is is that people mainly because of the voting how quick we have turned over and voting people are unwilling to take stance that's going to angry anger people so whatever they get in whatever that is in whatever laws are in power they don't undo them that's democrats that's republicans they maintain the status quo and try to push the republicans are good about trying to push the party to the far right and the democrats are good about maintaining the status quo which means maintaining a system that is not good not not fair and they do little things around the edge but there's a real frustration and anger that i had uh the ballot was won it was in small print and there were no there was no ability to say i don't like either of these choices none of the above or writing in my own name because i think i'd do a better job maybe only get on the vote in none of the races none of the races was that ability and i it that's a deliberate design to have a forced choice election i you know people vote vote vote and then force them into choices that they may not want to do so i don't know okay and we've seen examples of that we've had our own in hawaii with a former potential presidential candidate who switched parties and switched allegiances and switched just about everything until she finally showed what people have who have known her and said are her true colors which doesn't do much for people of color unfortunately so tim you made a good point is there media responsibility here and getting information to people that will help move us in a direction of greater range of choices of more factions that would force more negotiated consensus action like ever is unfortunately during the ronald reagan era um the fair fair uh communication standards equal time uh was written out of the law was banquished so now you have no obligation to give anyone equal time time not to mention of any particular race but any particular persuasion and this goes to the heart of our choices are limited to one or two things and media is not reporting because they don't have to report they're not forced to give equal time and that is unfortunate because there are many issues that deserve not only equal time but most likely greater time but we just don't see it and now we we go to that which um you know the news cycle is 24 hours because the attention span of the voting public is that of a nap and that's due to a lot of reasons but um you know it's the sensationalization of news and media and coverage and you know let's just say affirmative action you know it's an important subject but is it as important as a shooting situation in a school it's not going to get the headlines and that's unfortunate because as long as that continues and the people are not aware of the issues and the uh you know the inequities that surround us nothing changes and that's a good point because you can see that exemplified not only weekly and monthly but even daily in the media recently the media has all swung back and said okay it may not be a red wave certainly not going to be a blue wave republicans are gaining momentum even the so-called neutral media they're promoting the republican bandwagon Chuck the public is being played as they've been played for a hundred years um you know they want to make this into a horse race why people are going to tune in what's on when you tune in commercials uh ratings uh the american public is being played and it's right in front of our eyes yet we are numb to it or some of us are numb to it I you know the the media the thing I think about the media is their corporate own correct and and whether they whether they say they're neutral they're not they have a bias that is to the corporation that owns them and the corporation and the corporation that owns them is in the business of you know maintaining the status quo and so yeah they they do the they they are sensationalists and then even when they have these news panels it's it's like putting on one or two or three people who all have similar views uh uh for the narrow range of views that they are interested in promoting um mainstream mainstream media is not interested in having people who have uh really diversion views on the issues uh in fact based diversion views and so that's and the people get fed that and if they only look at that at the media that they're looking at uh I I had extreme frustration uh with MSNDC is that right during Obama's administration uh because uh they well first of all they they crowded up their a room with people that they normally don't even give voice to black and brown people so they had shows that were headed by black and brown people and they brought black and brown people on and they didn't really have a different view of the world that uh that a white person in the same economic situation would have had and the problem during Obama's administration seemed really implemented policies that was hurting black and brown people and I wanted people to get up on tv and say oh no his housing policy is horrible it's hurting black and brown people uh but that didn't happen so the the the structure is to to supply support and only go opposition to in some narrow way so it's not real opposition uh real informed informative of the problems and that's the problem with media I mean even today like uh uh they don't provide a real range of views on whatever issue they're trying to cover to the extent they do cover issues okay so in our last minute and I ask each of you if you were going to boil down to a succinct point relating to race and these elections that you believe people should understand and keep in mind when they make their choices when they vote Jim any thoughts which party is going to serve your bread and butter issues best what party is going to serve your sense of fairness and justice best which party is going to represent the future for you and your family best uh and if you can't come up with that answer um vote anyway I I'm a big believer that even if you're unhappy and you don't like the choices vote because um apathy is the great destroyer of all democracies or in this case our republic and um those politicians that wish to manipulate the people and preserve their power base rely on apathy and um I am actually pleased even though I did like how the results were always working out in the last election we had more Americans voting than ever before as far as a percentage and I find that encouraging I will find it more encouraging when they make enlightened votes and we have better candidates that move this country forward in all areas of economic prosperity race relationships and everything in between great fresher Randall well I'm not a vote anyway person uh largely because I think they use voting that it's not apathy to not want uh uh the choices that are being provided it is a if you don't like the choices that are being provided for you if they don't fit your value system uh there is no obligation morally ethically or whatever to vote uh the lesser of two evils because in the end it's still evil uh and so I I kind of think that you should get your ballot that you should understand the racial issues I think that everything Tim said about looking at that I think all of the questions that he said exactly true goes through that thinking process at the end of the day though if you feel that neither party represents your what's best for you in your community then you have to make a decision not to vote uh and to maybe turn in the ballot that says none of the above and write on balancing in a way that says look I came but you don't have my vote I I think forcing people into a forced choice is part of the flaw in our system and that maintaining that forced choice allows people to say oh yeah well you know it's not that good but it's better than the other and you think you know what I don't want to participate in choosing the stick you're going to beat me with I did that ciao my my foster mother when she she would make us go out and get to stick we were going to beat going to get a whipping with our the uh strap that we were going to get a whipping with and you get a lighter one you get a one that you think ain't going to hurt that much but at the end of the day you get a whip that's going to beat you and so the same thing it wasn't fun no and it's not fun to choose the lesser of two evils when you know within your mind now if that's not your thinking process then don't go there but if that is your thinking process it's okay it's okay to be to have the idea that you're not going to pick the stick to get beaten with that you'd rather you'd rather even if it means that you're going to get beaten worse because they're going to pick something bigger you'd rather take that then participate in the choice of what's going to abuse you so I'll just add that on for us a Randall Tim thanks so much for your thoughts your perspectives your insights given us all a lot to think about come back and join us in a couple of weeks thank all of you who took the time to watch this and best wishes to all of you thank you so much for watching think tech Hawaii if you like what we do please like us and click the subscribe button on youtube and the follow button on vimeo you can also follow us on facebook instagram twitter and linked in and donate to us at thinktecawaii.com Mahalo