 Hello, and welcome to Issues and Answers, a production of the Government Information Service. I am your host, Jacques Hingston Compton, and my guests today are Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Equity, Social Justice and Empowerment, Miss Veldor Joseph, and the Technical Coordinator of the Human Capital Resilience Program, Miss Juliana Daniel Foster. And our topic is the revised National Social Protection Policy. Ladies, welcome to the program. Thank you so much. I want to start with actually you, Miss Daniel Foster. What is the Human Capital Resilience Program? And what is your, could you describe a little bit about your role? This project, which is being implemented jointly by the Ministry of Equity and the Ministry of Education, aims to strengthen human capital resilience in St. Lucia. The main thrust behind this is a restructuring of the TVET council at the Ministry of Education and providing support for persons to get qualified in TVET certifications, CVQs, et cetera, and VQs. This is component one. Component two aims to strengthen the social protection system, which will also provide support to our human capital by allowing for more effective interventions for poverty reduction, reduction of vulnerability. So I think this might be the first for St. Lucia with the two ministries collaborated on one project, which is funded by the World Bank. So Ministry of Education holds responsibility for the funding, and me as a technical coordinator with responsibility for the component to the social protection reform. I am assigned to PS Joseph, Ministry of Equity, to coordinate that aspect. And just for persons who don't know, what is TVET and the CVQ? Technical vocational education. So you can get a certificate in a technical skill, and there are different levels. It's almost like starting from a certificate to diploma degree, different levels. So these are offered by our skills training centers, NSDC, most secondary schools offer some of the CVQs, and then you have Sir Arthur Lewis, which offers the highest level of certification. Our NSDC offers training across the island, and I guess Sir Arthur as well with the Southern Compass. You have centers in Soufere with NSDC. So the aim is to reach people. Now, central to this is in the context of social protection is reducing economic exclusion, which is why persons may end up knocking on PS's door, because they are deprived of the economic resources they need to make ends meet. And the Human Capital Resilience Project has led the coordination of the labor market needs survey, which allows us to gauge which professions or which areas of employment would allow persons to secure a more sustainable income, as well as there are other gaps in the labor market in terms of there is a demand for skilled personnel. However, the qualifications are not being met by the training institutions. And so the employers cannot get those persons to high ensign notion. So if we could have a more coordinated effort where we direct persons into more sustainable economic activities, they would become more resilient, experience greater economic inclusion, and our national economic goals would be met better, and the strain and the burden on the nature of equity would be reduced. So it is all linked. You could see the genius in that pairing the two when you think of it that way, but it takes a lot to be able to achieve integrated implementation, and that is where the technical expertise is needed. Of course. And P.S., this next question is actually for you. I want you to talk about what the national social protection policy is, and as well as what has been revised, because I understand it's a revised policy. So what it is and how it was revised. Right. So for some time now, the ministry responsible for social development knew of the deficiencies with our social protection system. In fact, I will go back into history and refer to an assessment that was done in 2010. The deficiencies were highlighted, the recommendations were highlighted as well to address those deficiencies. One of the recommendations spoke to us having the legislative framework and the policy framework to support a strengthened social protection system. In 2014, a national social protection policy was developed and that was approved by cabinet. However, as we go about looking at what we have and how we continue to strengthen and improve, of course you recognize that the environment is dynamic and things change, we recognize that there are issues that need to be addressed very prominently. There are still deficiencies within that policy and so it was necessary for us to relook, revisit and to improve or upgrade as we see that policy, that existing policy. We did that through a consultative, collaborative approach because as Juliana indicated, social protection is really cross-cutting. It involves a number of stakeholders and so we did not want to just sit in house with a consultant and look at the document and say this is what it is and we need to review. But we wanted to ensure that all stakeholders were part of the process and the general public was part of the process. So during May and June, we had public consultations discussing the existing policy and discussing what needs to be improved in this document. I recall issues relating to gender and issues relating to strategic provisions for addressing climate change and addressing resilience building. We thought that this was not sufficiently addressed in the 2014 policy and that it needed to be looked at. Issues relating to disability, we also thought that needed to be looked at in this new revised policy. We spoke of the approach that we had in the 2014 policy and we decided going through the consultative process that a life skills approach was the best approach for St. Lucia, looking at it from the cradle to the grave as we see along the life cycle looking at what social protection provisions can be made for those vulnerable groups within the life cycle stages. We also looked at other issues relating to our pillars and how we strengthen our system. What is the institution that we require to adequately deliver on social protection services in St. Lucia. So we looked at all of that, we discussed it and we have a draft, I'm happy to say that we will be presenting to cabinet before the end of this month and then to officially send that document up to cabinet for approval. That would then be the policy framework that will guide how we deliver on social protection services in St. Lucia. That policy spans an eight year period. It's 2022 to 2030 and we will be monitoring. There is a monitoring framework attached to it. There's an implementation plan that will be monitoring to see how we implement and how we progress along in meeting the objectives of the policy for 2022 to 2030. And I assume 2030 to meet the sustainable development goals. That was the thinking behind it. And post that, we relook, we take a second look, we step back, we assess and then we go into another cycle. So we would have a new policy post 2030 that would be for a determined period. So you've said a few things that lead me to some other questions that you mentioned. Island-wide consultations. Could you speak a little bit about that or who the stakeholders were? So we had very interesting consultations. I have to say I was very pleased with the outcome and the attendance at those consultations. We had five of them, one in the north. So that was held at the pastoral center. We had one in Souffre. We had for the Eastern region in January. We had... View Fort. View Fort as well. So it's four of them. And they were very, very well attended and the participation was excellent. It was open groups, organizations, advocacy groups, sporting organizations, community-based organizations just open to individuals to come and discuss with us issues related to social protection, issues that pertain to vulnerable groups in society that they feel should be represented or better represented in an upgraded or updated policy. And so I believe the discussions were really good. We got very good recommendations to strengthen the policy that we have right now. And either of you could answer that. Was it more of a focus group-based sort of consultation? No, it was like town hall meetings. Just town hall meetings. Just town hall meetings. But we also had focus groups in terms of having specific stakeholders also brought to the table to look at the policy and the revision of the policy. So Juliana can speak a little bit to that. She facilitated some of those focus discussions with the groups. That too, I think, went pretty well. Yeah, go ahead and talk to us about that. So basically the consultant was hired to update the policies. So he did not do that on his own. We had the focus group discussions with various stakeholders. And what we've tried to do, which the policy from 2014 and the new one really wants to strengthen civil society groups that provide support. State resources are limited. There's only someone that can be done. And you have a lot of philanthropy and volunteerism in St. Louis. It's part of our culture. But we need the structures. We need them to be institutionalized so that they could tap into funding. There's grant funding that would allow these groups to do a lot more in St. Lucia. So we really tried to get the input of the inputs of the civil society groups in revising the policy. And the common thread was nobody had ever heard about it. So that was a good thing. So we got them going back and then getting them to think of what they want to see moving forward. So we had the blind welfare. We had the activist groups crisis censor, et cetera. Of course, as Pierre said, the youth groups, we have ministry of youth and their youth officers. They are doing so much. You know, I will say I was guilty. I just thought of youth and sports until I had one-on-one with the youth officers. One assigned to each district as Pierre has. Her social transformation officers assigned to each district to work with community groups. And we have welfare officers that work in different zones, working with the vulnerable families. So bringing all of them together, they were able to speak on behalf of the needs in the community, the vulnerable and the experiences. And then the faith-based organizations trying to get their input as well. As you know, they do a lot of work. So I would say they have journeyed with the consultant from the review and the question of what needs to stay, what is missing, what should be added and what is it that we were supposed to do from since 2014 that was not done and we would like to continue working with. So the consultant was instrumental in leading that, providing the framework because policy is not something you can take to the ground. It's not easy to do that. So we were able to use the system that is in place, the different groups to get the information to the level of the community. Okay, we're actually due for a break, our only one. But when we come back, I want to, I know the PS mentioned earlier that the policy would be going to cabinet by the end of this month. So I want to talk about maybe what the public can hope to see when the policy is actually launched. So when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about that. You're watching Issues and Answers. Please stay tuned. We'll be back in a moment. Oi, you ever realize you step on my toe? Well, do something about it. Gasai busin damen. Holla! If somebody tried to cross you, and a matting start to take you, no need for your over your lens because the police is there to help you. If a trouble starts in this session, all right, no need for aggression. Holla! Show your temper. Respect each other. Believe us, sir. Don't let no- Know your temper. A message from Mission Boys Studio 758, Acid Creations, and the Royals and Lucia Police Force. If Mike isn't hiding there to make my own, I didn't make my own. Welcome back to Issues and Answers, a production of the government information service. And we're talking about the revised National Social Protection Policy. And as I said before, with me are the permanent secretary in the Ministry of Equity, Social Justice and Empowerment, and the technical coordinator of the Human Capital Resilience Program, Ms. Juliana Daniel Foster. Now, as I said before, we went on the break. You mentioned that the policy would be going to cabinet by the end of this month. So we want to talk about the eventual rollout, possibly when you want an estimated time of when you can expect it to actually launch, if that's possible. And some of the things that the public is going to see moving forward. We have an approved policy. We are ready to launch the policy. So I would imagine that before the year ends, we would have this big launch of the policy. And thereafter, we could look towards implementation of the provisions of the policy. One of the things that Juliana mentioned is the coordinated approach that is required for effective rollout of the policy and for the material social protection services in general. This is one of the things that we have crafted. We have sought to craft well in the policy, the revised policy, to ensure that we have a system that works well, that is harmonized in terms of rolling out the services. We often refer to persons double-dipping and triple-dipping. The assessment spoke to duplication of resources and duplication of what we offer. But if we don't have a system that enables us to deliver in a coordinated manner, you will get those kinds of issues surfacing. So that is one of the things that we have discussed and we once cabinet approves, we are looking to cabinet approving this mechanism that will support an advanced implementation of this policy document. We are also looking to ensure that our systems and our services, our programs are harmonized, are strengthened. We are looking to the strengthening of the persons that are going to deliver. We recognize efficiencies there as well. Mrs. Foster spoke to our welfare officers. We have four welfare officers for the entire island. We are looking at 3,600 persons on the public assistance program alone and that is just one of our social assistance programs. How do you build the capacity to be able to deliver and deliver effectively? How do you strengthen your referral systems so that you are able to refer based on the needs or the deficiencies of that household that you are dealing with? At the end of the day, what we want is for households to be so empowered that they build resilience, that they can live independent lives, that they can move forward, that they can take care of their livelihoods, they can take care of their family. And so we need to ensure that the systems are there, the provisions are there, the mechanisms are there, the programs are there to be able to support that. So it's a lot that we have as part of the implementation of this policy document and I look forward to receiving the resources to be able to deliver as we envisage. Juliana spoke to the last policy, the 2014 policy and we saw the drop in terms of implementation, not where we expected to be at this stage. Of course, it speaks to resources and lack of resources. Come 2030, we really don't want to repeat of that. We want to see very near 100% achievement in terms of implementation of this policy. And we are going to work very hard. From the Ministry of Equity, the remaining phase of the project to be able to advance the provisions that we have articulated on the revised policy document. Also, can you speak on the remaining phase? Yes, so as Pia said, the coordination is important and the Human Capital Resilience Project has not only financed and advanced the revision of the policy, but there has been the development of a graduation strategy. This allows the Ministry of Equity to look into a system that coordinates the strengthening of livelihoods and labor market inclusion, getting persons to become empowered enough to be taken off government assistance, to graduate. And we cannot do that if the institutions are not working together, they aren't referrals because it will take a lot to support our family to that stage. It cannot be one welfare officer working with a family. It will take interventions from training institutions, labor market services from organizations. As you know, like for example, Sandals has this training institution, they support training. So it's not just the TVET institution, but you have companies in St. Lucia that support strengthening of labor market skills. And if we have a referral system and we could coordinate these services, we could help people get to that stage of economic or financial independence. We have the TVET program, sort of like a scholarship where the students, their subjects are being paid for. So that should serve as an incentive. So you have the secondary school students, the financial costs, some of it is being met by the Human Capital Resilience Project. And you have the vulnerable persons who are experiencing trouble in the labor market, persons who may have been made redundant who want to reskill, upskill. They could get the financial assistance to go into those courses and get certified. You have persons who started and for whatever issues they're going through, they had to drop out or they could not afford to pay for the exams. The Human Capital Resilience Project has the resources to get persons to complete the training they started and pursue. So as you know, the ministry's name is Empowerment is in there, that is key. So in the graduation strategy and the policy, we are actually strengthening that framework. What exactly is St. Lucia offering to facilitate empowerment of citizens? So you have that element under that project. Thirdly, we have an operations manual. As P.S. just mentioned, the referral systems need to be in place. The case workers have to work together and you need to build the capacity. The social workers need training. The social transformation officers need training. And the consultant is on board to prepare an operations manual that will work with, we will provide guidance to the officers who are on the ground to know how to implement services, how to deliver services better. And all the training opportunities will be offered. Then we have the SIS consultancy which basically we want to have a social registry but an information system that will allow the officers to be able to share information and allow for more effective targeting and delivery of services. So once you have ministry of equity implementing the PAP public assistance program, cash transfer component, you have a registry, we have electronic, we have databases, but it's all Excel and in-house right now. But the same officers are out there speaking to the same families and asking them the same questions over and over. Some people may enjoy telling their stories but for some it's traumatic. It is having to repeat what has brought them to that point. And the civil society groups, the advocacy groups, that is something that irks them. They want us to be able to not re-traumatize persons as they say. And so we have what is called the ministry of equity is using now the national eligibility test, the SLNet 3.0. And once a household is assessed with that tool, all the information you need, whether you are an NGO, a government, caseworker, you can have that access and you could decide that this person qualifies for whatever service. But the information is not shared, the system for allowing the integrated. Very private, yeah. It's private, yes. But of course these officers have to take an oath. So even if you make it available to them, it's within their professional practice not to disclose that information. But they shouldn't have to re-interview every household because there is a national tool that allows you to have that information that you need to target the resources to the household. So we will have the SIS and we will have better housing of that data come financed through the HCRP. And yes, I speak to graduation and that when we went to the public, that was the area and the policy has the pillars. We have social insurance with the NIC and you have contributory and non-contributory. You have social assistance, the care workers in the communities taking care of the elderly, et cetera. You have labor market intervention and livelihood support programs and you found the people in the community when they see these are the service that will be strengthened, this is what is coming. They wanted to know how the labor market aspect would work. They wanted to understand how people will be facilitated to empower them in graduation. That resonated with them because people don't want to be receiving that kind of support for their whole life. You have that. Then you have the whole issue of social care and health and universal provisions. When you go out there and people, you tell people this is what we're going to do, they all want more. And PS has that burden of explaining why it cannot be universal provisions at this stage. So the policy has to manage this delicate balance. St. Lucia is right now at Life Cycle Approach, as PS said. We provide certain support services to persons at various stages. And people want in what we refer to now as the adaptive response, the shock response to the pandemic, people want unemployment insurance. So these are kind of questions we have. When is that coming? So you have St. Lucia in a position like the rest of the Caribbean now forced to consider provisions for unemployment insurance, even though the Ministry of Equity was able to disseminate checks to different categories of people who experienced significantly reduced sources of income during COVID, the structure was not there before. So the policy speaks to shock response of an adaptive and PS. Before we could get the policy approved has gotten hands-on experience in what that could mean for St. Lucia. So we have to go with what is being thrown at us right now. The policy has been responsive, I would say, based on the information out there. But one of the things that we have to address is the whole issue of disability support, as PS said. And we have spoken to that. Right now we have a child disability grant, but we have adults living with disability. And so they would come to the consultations and want to know, are we ready to have better services for adults living with disabilities? So it's a lot of work, it's a lot to do. So the implementation plan is huge and a lot of monitoring framework as well as a lot of work. I do want to, PS, get over here, go ahead. Yeah, I would like to, I think one of these things that the policy really allows us to do very well is to structure our programming, relook at what it is that we're doing and how we're doing it. We have the Human Capital Resilience Project, but we have other donors that we interact with that supports the Ministry of Equity. So how do we make sure that the donor support is also targeted in such a way that we are able to implement the policy, the provisions of the policy that we have? So again, you see, we're not health and skeleton unstructured in terms of just providing small projects, but we have this program supported by a policy framework that will allow us to harmonize better, that will allow us to integrate the support that we provide and better provide the support to families in need. Earlier, Ms. Daniel Foster mentioned eligibility. Could you talk about some of the vulnerable groups that we'll be talking, who specifically? We're talking about women, children. The SNNET is a tool that allows us to determine who's eligible for government-assisted social assistance programs. It was approved by Cabinet in 2019 and we roll out, well, that's SNNET 3. We've had SNNET 1 and 2, we're at version 3. The tool is such that we're open to any household. Anybody can walk into the Ministry and ask to be assessed for the public assistance program. But once you get in there, there are other services that we provide. Junana refers to it as PAP Plus because we have the additional services that we provide. So any household could walk in and we also have the situation of other persons being able to make an application on behalf of a household. So that is also fine. We take all of the information that the tool is applied through the welfare officers and it runs through a process where you receive a score. The score determines which group you fall in. There are three welfare groups, group one, group two, group three. Group one, meaning indigent, very poor. Group two, poor, and group three, non-poor. Once you fall in group one or two, you are eligible for government social assistance program. So yes, it's open to vulnerable groups, persons with disabilities, children, adults, everybody can approach the Ministry. Again, I go back to the issue of resources. So that is the challenge for us. Right now I do know that we have a waiting list for the public assistance program as well as the child disability grant program that Mrs. Foster referred to. We are also getting calls as to why is a child disability? What about just a disability grant? Because there are people who are adults but really their disability precludes them from doing certain things and they need the support. So these are the issues that we have right now but these are the issues that we are also looking at to see how we can better provide the services and how we can better meet the needs of individuals who need assistance. Okay, we've come pretty much to the end of the program but I wanted to quickly just tell the audience where can you get more information on the oncoming policy framework when it is eventually launched. Okay, well we did, during the consultation we did make the policy available electronically via the Ministry's website. So now that we're going to cabinet soon when we start that process we will make it available again because it will become something that cabinet discussed so we will allow persons to see the draft again and once cabinet reviews it the consulate makes final changes so it's not a final document yet. So as soon as the document is finalized then SPS will explain the process where the ministry puts it on its website. Okay, well I, go ahead. So once we have that final document that goes on our website on the government of the issues website on our partners website it will be available at our original offices. You can speak to your social transformation officer your welfare officer, your family case worker. We intend to make it available, readily available to everybody so that they know what the provisions are. And I also hope that you both come back on the program to speak on the developments of the program later down the line. Hopefully maybe early next year. Thank you very much for coming and again I hope you do come back again. Thank you, thank you for having us. No problem. You're watching Issues and Answers, a production of the government information service. Thank you for watching. 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