 at the Markney Seagull Theatre Center, the Gwades and the Cuny in the heart of Manhattan, Midtown. And again, it's a sunny, kind of glorious New York day, as good as it ever will get. And the life seems to be slowly coming back, cars are beeping again on the streets, more and more people come. I saw yesterday people with suitcases that even looked, that looked like tourists. They had the tourist smile as something we haven't seen for a year. Those things are changing, a friend of mine is closing one restaurant, opening another one, and she is very nervous. And now she thinks maybe better times are ahead. Still, there's lots of uncertainty, everything is still closed, performing on spaces have not opened up. There is some talk that in Broadway will be back December 5th with music holds. Not sure if this is what we really need, a new Michael Jackson musical. Is that the thing, the first thing after a COVID time? But it is, of course, important for the identity of the city to have it here, but I think we all have to really think, what are we going to show after this crisis? Many people on this talk said this was a rehearsal and we better don't screw this up. What is coming? The environmental crisis next to political economic crisis. There are some questions of racism and all of that, but very, very big things are waiting for us, confronting us, and I think we all hope that this was a time where we reflect and things are different. Today, we have a very significant talk. In my book, we all have, of course, a significant talk. Yesterday, I thought it was a wonderful presentation from Carrie Perloff about her work in San Francisco, the ACT for over 25 years, leading an institution, how it was for her as a coming in as a very, very young woman who had to fight, then talk over a show, produced, raised funds are very impressive and her thoughts on theater, on writing, on art, and what to do right now are impressive. Things are changing, things will not stay how they are. And even to have the things stay how they are, they need to change. That change is possible is an utopia and it's something we think about, and often it does not happen and not in the way we think about. And we today now turn to a country that has one of the most troubled histories we think in the world, to Chile. And today, we have with us Marco Layera, a fantastic worker in the global field of theater with us is Martin Valdez Stauber, a drama talk and sociologist who works for him who will translate something extraordinary happened in the country of Chile that is perhaps more known for what happened with the times of Pino Chat and the great Guillermo Valderón who we are a bit more familiar. He also in the US wrote about it so much in La Vida and in so many other places. And Marco Layera came to us to this crowbar center and by you, we almost had J. Wegman who best represented him who then couldn't make it today. So, Marco and Martin, welcome. Where are you guys and what time is it? Marco, will we have a translation? He will understand our question, but the other question. So, Marco, where are you? What time is it? Hello, hello. I'm 12 years old, I'm in Santiago, Chile. Today is a holiday. They celebrate, I'm a tribute to the army. We have to understand that in our country and in another country they built a war narrative, something that we are changing little by little. So, today is a cold day. Let's translate. One second, let's translate. Yes, he's in Santiago, Chile which is actually the same time zone as New York. So, it's noon. And today is a holiday in Chile because of one festive day linked to a military event, to the Armada. And Marco was describing that the whole narrative of the country of Chile is linked to war and to generations of war and that's something that they are changing right now. And Martin, where are you? I'm currently in Munich, in the south of Germany. Good, and you? At Munich-Kamerspiele, where perhaps some people might have heard about the Munich-Kamerspiele, where for instance Bertolt Brecht stars in the 20s. Yeah, one of the most significant theatres in Germany won the big award as Best Theatre and for many reasons, also through the artistic leadership, you know, it's so well known. And you kind of, you guys collaborate? Do I understand that right? Martin? Yes, we, I mean, I have been following Marco's work for some years already because his work has been shown in all significant festivals in Europe and beyond also, as you mentioned, in New York City. And we know each other for almost two years now and we plan to do a project here in Munich which had to be cancelled due to the pandemic. And now we're working on a new project which is also trying to rethink international collaboration. Amazing. For our viewers who are not so familiar, let me give a very short description. Bio Marco is a theatre director, a teacher and a playwright. He studied law actually at the University of Chile and is specialized in criminology. He received theatrical training at Teatro Escuela La Matriz and the Escuela Teatro Imagen and he found in 2008, the company La Restentida, his work has been presented in over 30 countries and for everybody, especially from the US, you know, that knows this is a remarkable, see everybody from the Americas, I mean also to include in that, you know, this is a remarkable feat to be such a global audience in over 100 stages. He was at the Scrabble and his theatrical creation reflect on the great political responsibility and the understanding of theatre as an instrument of criticism, reflection and construction and in a way about utopia, what is possible, what is not possible, and if something is possible, what should we do? And we will of course talk about this now. Martin is a dramaturg and a sociologist. He studied economics and sociology in Germany and in Berkeley and in Cambridge, the UK. And he became dramaturg at the Amunja Kamerspieler, which was theatre of the year in the German speaking countries, a very, very big deal. He worked with great artists, some of them who we also had here, like Milo Rao, Philippe Quezny, Eremini Protocol, all three were with us and but also Marlene Monteiro, Robin Rere, who also was here and Podomoros Sivincoris, if I said that right, among others. And he specialized in international collaborations. Also about the idea of public space and the city. We might come back to that one day with him and the interface of arts and technology. So thank you both for coming here before we start, Marco, also about your work. Tell us what happened, the election, I was saying it was last weekend, what happened? Last week we had the elections for the constituents. Well, I don't know if they're informed. On October 18th, Chile had a social stadium. Thousands of people went out to the streets. And from that fact, there was a political impact where they made a new constitution and that's why they called it elections to call new constituents. That's like a prologue. Yes, that's right. Yes, that's a prologue. So this weekend, the people who will write or rewrite the new constitution were elected. And as a background information on the 18th of October in 2019, there was this outburst of indignation, a social outburst in Chile, in Santiago de Chile and in the older country, in which thousands of people went to the streets and this triggered a political process and led to a political agreement that the constitution now will be rewritten and on the weekend we voted who will be those people rewriting the constitution. Yeah, it's, yeah, go on. Well, this weekend came a moment so expected to elect these 155 citizens who were going to write the new constitution and something unexpected happened, the political history of Chile, where most of the elected citizens come from social movements. And I'm very happy because it was the right and the coalition that ruled us, the left center, really had very little vote and we have the possibility that today on the right it doesn't have the third that it needs to put obstacles to create a new constitution. That's right. So this was a moment that everyone was expecting to vote these 155 people and something really unprecedented happened in the political history of Chile that a majority of the people that have been elected are from the social movements. They are not from classical politics. And so that makes him very happy, especially because of two reasons. One is that the right-wing parties but also the center-left parties who had like an agreement maintaining the political system really lost big shares of votes. And secondly, and probably even more importantly is that the right-wing parties don't even have third of the share of the seats so they cannot block anything that the rest of the people want to write down and set down a new constitution. It's just an incredible, stunning development. I think millions of women also went on the street during the demonstration. Over one million demonstrated they were also last year, police was shooting military against demonstrators. It was very dangerous situation. Guillermo Tadaron spoke to us also about and the fact that the constitution of Chile that was written in 1980 under Pinochet will be rewritten. 155 people were selected and the current parties got just 37 out of those 155 seats and people came from social movements, not even the existing kind of traditional liberal left-wing parties. There are people coming from the uprising from the people of the street who came in and now a country will rewrite its constitutions and the people who normally traditionally are the ones who go to jail, are arrested, the ones whose voices are not heard, they are in a driver's seat. It is shocking, it is stunning, it is beautiful, one of the best news we have heard in a long time if we think of our talks with India, how terribly devastating it is, the situation in Palestine and in Israel and China, Hong Kong. So this is something completely unusual and inspiring. How do you feel about this, Marco? I think we are living a unique and irrepeatable moment at a very effervescent global level where we are at a time of change. And that is very interesting and especially because it interpels you, it interpels you all. I think the eruption of feminism has been one of the most important things that has happened in Chile, the feminism and the secondary students and we have to thank them for this change. Yes, we are living a unique moment, a moment that will not be repeated in that way again. It's a vibrant moment of change which also calls into question everything. And this is something we have to be grateful for, especially the eruption of feminism in Chile and also the students, especially the high school students and students from the universities who really broke up the social situation. Yeah, and if I understood right, even last December, the police and military shot was rubber bullets into the eyes of students, of demonstrators. Intentionally, so many lost their eyes. It was a terrible fight. There were curfews. People couldn't come up. This was all before Corona, then the same people in power shot the candidate on for Corona. It was confusing, complicated, and but this outcome is stunning. Marco, do you feel you are part of what happened? Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. We are a theater, a theater that has already been a committed theater and since our first work, we have always been critical with the democratic transition of our country. We have always been... Without any question, we always were part of a committed theater from the very start on, from our first play on, we did a critical theater, especially critical theater with what we call the transition to democracy, which was and has been problematic. Marco? We interrupt you. Dale, Marco. Yes, yes, you can continue. Yes, yes, yes. That perspective, of course, we all felt super involved and also the strength of the street, of what happened on October 18th, it does not intervene us, the artists, to reformulate us, to how we began to pay close attention to the communities and how the theater, or the other arts, recover this power that the street has. I think it's coming in time. Yes, so we are all tied into what is happening and we are observing this energy enforced from the street, right from the start of the social outburst on these 18th of October, 2019, which also calls into question us as artists, as how we work and it forces us to reformulate how we work and what we're doing and which aesthetic forms and also how to tie together with communities and not to recreate the street, but to be connected to what is happening on the street. Okay. So it's probably not enough to do art. We are still connected to what is happening on the streets, this whole process of politicization and that sometimes Marco feels that we should be tearing down the walls of the theaters because we cannot be enclosed, we cannot be in these closed buildings and that there are too many challenges, too many things calling into question like how we live together and that also a big topic for him is linked to all this is how we can democratize the access to theater, the access to contemporary art to tear down also the restrictions of accessibility. Can Marco tell us Marco, can you tell us a bit about the theater you did? Could you give a description what your projects were what they were about? How did they look like? Difficult to ask, but I'm going to do the experiment. I think we do a compromise theater and someone says compromise with what? Compromise with our country with our society, with our memory generationally as a pulse of our company at the moment. It's a hard question, but I will try as I said before we have like a committed theater, the question now is committed to what? Mainly to our country, to our society, to the memory, to the legacy especially the self-memory of our country. Marco? And our engine when when we start working and it is maintained as the company is resented I think I presented a generation that feels resented, that has a wound that has not been scarred and an emotion also a creative pulse that has to do with with the rabbi with the deep pain of living in such a brutal country where the impunity reigns until today. I'm taking notes meanwhile so not to forget anything so he was speaking about what drives him and his generation because the company was formed by a young, when it was formed in 2008 by a young generation of artists and they called themselves Sintida so in English it would be the resentful and this is a marker of his whole generation that there are wounds which have not really cured that there is pain, that there is anger and that is something that has continued in a country that is brutally unequal with social injustice and especially with an incredible impunity for those that are committing crimes of violence. And what we are interested in is to go into these contradictions that we also live to show the contradictions and to question ourselves as artists what is our role in all this why are we doing art for whom are we doing it Can you tell us about one or two works maybe in the beginning this is what we did different than other theater companies I'm going to talk about our first work called Simulacro and in 2010 we celebrated 100 years of independence and the official voices of Chile wanted to celebrate a just, progressive, socially inclusive country let's say a real paradise So the first project we did was Simulacro it was in 2010 when Simulacro was about to celebrate 200 years of independence and the official events they wanted to celebrate a country that is just progressive inclusive if let's say a paradise so it was to search not only for the like illuminated parts of what what Chile is and its history but also to go into the dark places and the basic idea was to treat in Simulacro's play the theater in Chile like is a place in which there's only space for some character for some figures and from there from this restricted amount of characters in that space to go into the painful landscapes into the ruptures within the country a painful voyage that's why we're very happy because it was let's say we already saw that spirit of discomfort with this politically affected transition to live in a laboratory where a neoliberal system extremely I would say so that there was nothing for them there was back then in 2010 when this anniversary happened nothing to celebrate and it's very interesting because everything they they touched upon in this project this theater play somehow exploded on that 18th of October which was the triggering event for what you're witnessing now that's also why they are happy right now to see that they also already back then called it to question this transition which tried to calm down the actual questions of social justice and also that it showed that China is treated as a laboratory country in which policies of neoliberalism are being tested in a very painful way for the for the population maybe Marco can tell us and our listeners about 18th of October what did happen and where was Marco where were you I was unfortunately not in Chile on the 18th of October I regret something that I always dreamed of and gave me a lot of pain I was in Spain on a tour so it was very very painful to see this it was two weeks where we could not sleep at night because we followed the news we had a very bad time we thought about stopping the tour to return to Chile it was a very difficult time to live this especially when it was a moment that I had always dreamed of I will never forgive myself for being in Chile it's something terrible that I will not return to Chile and I always dreamed of it it was difficult it was a very unsettling moment the company was in Spain they couldn't sleep they were following the news on the other part of the globe they were anxious they were asking themselves if they should stop the tour if they should go back and it was hard to observe everything from afar and it's also something that he will always regret and will never forgive himself that this moment he was always dreaming about this kind of a moment that he was not there when it happened Marc, maybe for our listeners give a short description what happened on the streets on that day he was also accompanied by numerous acts let's say of abuse, of violence let's say that for me it was also one of the only answers that he also had that he accompanied in this movement this product had a terrible repression by part of the people of the state unfortunately he repeated what happened let's say in dictatorship with what you said so actually what triggered all this was that the price for the metro line they went up and then the people from secondary schools, university colleges they protested against that and said let's jump the restrictions and just use the public transport and then many other people joined and it was like a triggering event for the social outburst which then also had violent elements and elements of riot and perhaps we go later into that because Marc was also like I know what he was referring to is the question of in which way this violence was legitimate but what the official part like police and the state did was to react in a very strong repressive way repeating the strategies of the dictatorship unfortunately that was let's say go ahead that was and it was very painful to see again many people from the political house giving back to the movement and some trying to instrumentalize also to take small political quotes but it was without a doubt the only one that will mark our history that will mark our future but there are many things that still have to heal there is still a lot of impunity there are 5 5 human rights organizations to establish in their report that in Chile the human rights are violated or the human rights are violated and that still the political class does not want to accept it so it was also an experience to see all that once again the political class turned the back to the protestors or tried to use to instrumentalize the protest for their own aims and goals and it was for sure a unique moment which will be part of our history and our future but still there are many things that have to be cured there is a lot of impunity and 5 international NGOs declared also that human rights violations have happened and are happening in Chile and that is something that the political class has always neglected and ignored or silenced they also have very very beautiful people came out to the street for the first time it seemed that there was a common cause the artistic manifestations of the street were impressive our walls seemed to be a gallery of art as in another way we began to dispute the street dispute the monuments to transfigure the monuments to make the own, to say so I mean on the one side it was a dark moment the violent repression but it was also a very unique and beautiful moment to see that the people went out that they gathered together they created a community of protest that they gather around one shared cause and also the artistic imprint of the demonstration there are the artistic interventions in these demonstrations how the whole city somehow turned into a museum a gallery because all walls were painted decorated with statements how monuments were transformed and re-described we signified and it also between the generations a new pact a new was forged on the street a question to Marco there were the events of that December there was now the election that happened we live in the time of Corona how does he see Marco how do you see the role of the artist in Santiago in Chile at the moment do you see it as an art fit in what is the most important thing to do for artists and keep in mind what should they think about well I think it's a very difficult moment to reflect on how we were used to well we came from the social workshop that the theaters were closing so it took a long time to express our usual space I think what are you looking for today let's transfer so it's difficult to express oneself in an artistic way the way that we were used to because already more or less from when the social outburst happened theaters have been closed and so we did not have access to the spaces that we were used to work in after the pandemic I think we have to look for new formats and in that sense I think we don't have to I think the moment I think the criticism and the judges have to leave the freezer and support all the artists whether with the means they do that they are resisting and have the impulse to do I think it's time to support and welcome any artistic pressure be it in the format I think it's not the time to make judges so this pandemic forced us to find new formats and it's not the time for critics or criticizing and judging this is something we should put into the freezer and we should appreciate that people with the means they have resist and continue doing art and that we should be supporting each other that we should be showing empathy to all forms of artistic expression from that perspective I think from that perspective the artistic practice is also also our life our daily life from that perspective I try to express I sent a sticker a while ago when I go out on the street with my message in the city those are small forms small practices that make me continue doing art or expressing myself more than anything so like art practices something that now is inhibiting our daily routines our daily life for instance it's more a question of expressing oneself as well so some time ago he made some stickers with messages and when he is on streets going somewhere he is decorating and spreading the messages and it's also a form of expressing oneself in the cityscape artistically Marco did you do any work in the last year what did you do in the time of corona were you no it has been very difficult to create it has been a very productive moment creatively because the domestic work and paternity work collapse me it's a very difficult moment of creation of study also and on the one hand I think it's good to also create distance to see what I was doing but it has been very difficult to create in this moment for other artists it has been very inspiring for me I have worked in a lot of moments in some depression and above all that time has not given me to be able to work in a new message so it has been difficult to create it was not in that sense a very productive time because the domestic routines the duties of fatherhood they all took more time and it was a difficult situation to create it had also benefits that you can step a bit back and have some distance to your work and reflect on things other people were perhaps more inspired by the time gained but for him it was rather depressing and it was also a question of time and having opportunities to produce and if I may add from my side because when the pandemic started Marco and me were about to create in Munich because Matthias Lildienthal was for five years artistic director of Kamerspiele in his last season and we had a huge project for the end which was a staging of Roberto Boulanio's novel 2666 which is quite well known in the US and this huge novel we plan to do with ten international teams of directors across the city with a bus from station to station and Marco would actually have covered the fifth book of this big novel which people readers might know is about the German history and the idea was that someone from outside would twist the perspective on how German history is being narrated and actually I was at the festival in Sao Paulo and when I returned Marco was already in Munich with his group and he would show his last play by Sachas Paranocolorear Landscapes not to be filled in but the theaters in Munich were already closed so the people participating in that play had all returned to Chile and very soon it was clear that we had to cancel our project and so Marco had to fly back with everyone else to Chile and ever since all shows international invitations were cancelled and so it's really starting anew hoping that the tours will be possible in the future Marco another question for you you work at the Kamerspieler you work so much with Lila Rao why do you guys say Marco's work is important what does it stand for? It's a tricky question because I have always to find a balance because I very much think we should not be asking artists from other parts in the world we don't invite them because they are reflecting and transporting a political reality from there to us because we are curious about that and what Marco is doing is actually he's nourished and embedded in the reality and the social struggles in Chile profoundly and everything that is happening now is already the seed you see in his previous works but when you go and watch one of Marco's performances it always will transcend the place where the play originated where it was developed so when you see the last play for instance which is a lot about feminism and also sexualized violence you can hear yes to the place where the rehearsals took place but you will be immediately shocked by how close it gets to your own reality wherever you are on the planet on the globe and also this capacity to write plays of your own which are so profoundly nourished by the contemporary world surrounding you and then you are playful in how you stage it be it in a very delicate way or being an incredibly powerful energetic way so this variety of aesthetic forms nourished by the contemporary occurrences and by universalism in the best sense that everyone can resonate with what you see on stage no matter your background Marco a question for you did you feel you were observing what is happening on the street did you feel you were part of the struggle for democracy for freedom or did you feel you kind of formed it you made it also happen so what was your role how do you see the role of you and your company during our work of 13 years we made a contribution to what would happen and yes I am part I have some social movements I participate here in being a community, I think that is our great job for me to be a community for theater for me I can't be theater alone it is impossible for me to be theater alone I need the other I have always been my vision I believe in the collective theater I think the way to project politically is to be a community yes I feel part of what happened the 13 years we have been working with the company contributed to what is happening now we hope that it actually could take place and also Marco himself is part of social movements beyond theater work and the core of this is always this idea of making creating community not only in theater the theater work is also quite collective one Marco says he needs the other when doing art but also in this making community in his surroundings in his neighborhood and that is also a political form of the present and I leave the street I show myself in the street I insist I think it is a unique moment where we can leave the street we have to continue to fight it and also based on this I would like to talk about landscape to not colorate I think it is one of the most beautiful experiences I have had I also go out to the streets to the demonstrations I demonstrate myself with others and I really think that the street is not something we can stop occupying we still have to be there as well I would like also to talk about display which I would translate the landscapes not to be filled out because it is one of the most beautiful and most transformative experiences for myself as a director and an artist in general in all our works we always question the role of art and how art could be linked organically to the social movement and from that perspective we we get tired or say what else can we do from that we develop a series of actions that we had to see directly with the community not in a paternalist way never and to be able to share with them and from that the landscape is born to colorate that responds to the longing of us to join the social practices with the artistic practices so you generally speaking we always question the role of art and and ask ourselves how can we organically link art with social movements and somehow this was a question that at some point we were tired of asking and we asked ourselves what else and we looked into collaborating working together organizing events with the communities not in a patronizing way sharing and from this from this position the play paisajes para no colorar started off from a profound wish to combine social and artistic practice and paisajes no colorar is a work in which we had a year of research and we focused on the community of teenagers of female sex why adolescence and I I feel represented by that stage I personally with something with a certain radicality with a certain effervescence that has its contestatory spirit where it seems to reign more the emotion than the reason I also feel a bit hysterical or many times I feel that my works are hysterical and yes, I say it, I like that hysterical and what we wanted to study and reflect was how to counter the mechanism of control of the bodies of the teenagers of female sex by the centric adult world ok did you say centric adult at the end? the last word just checking the last word so for the play paisajes no colorar we did one year of investigation exploration research especially with teenagers female teenagers people that define themselves as female and Marco was stressing that he feels somehow represented also by what he experienced and what he saw with the teenagers and working with the teenagers that sometimes the emotions were governing the reason and sometimes his work is being called hysteric and that he actually likes the possibility of being hysteric and the play paisajes no colorar is somehow a study of the mechanisms of how the bodies are being controlled by a society defined by adulthood in Chile until today it is very normalized that the adult world exerts violence against the minorities of age and when we started this project paisajes no colorar we realized a series of atrocities where the victims were of sex women who were brutally raped by adults and from that perspective we were wondering what this adolescent community thought how it was related to that how it was related to the history of Chile with the new paradigms, with the new discourse we had many questions we wanted to know a lot and without a doubt we realized the protagonists of this October 18 and without a doubt they are the vanguard of counter-culture I'm not sure if you're hearing me I was shortly cut off the internet Marcos cut me off the internet but I can go as far as as I heard you so that when we started doing the research we saw how it was normalized in Chile the violence of adults against non-adults against children and teenagers especially female ones and we found we heard about really incredibly violent events where female bodies were brutally violated until then Marcos until then and that did not have many questions to that adolescent community in relation to how they reacted to these events how they were related to the history of Chile with their parents, with the present with the new paradigms with the new discourse we had many questions we wanted to know in what was this youth adolescent sex of feminine and after having done projects without a doubt we considered that they are the protagonists of this change that happened in Chile, of this social help of what is coming, they are the great engine I mean for example in this convention many young women came out from Alcalde occupying public positions and we have a lot of faith that it will be a change of paradigms of political practices, I have a lot of faith in that and to close that I still consider that youth, these teenagers are the vanguard of counter-culture that is, you have to take from the first Arab era the 15th of May in Spain what is happening now in Colombia what happened in Chile, the student movements in Brazil, in Mexico without a doubt the engine is the teenagers, the young ones very interesting thought at the end so when they started working with these teenagers they noticed that they the teenagers were dealing quite a lot with many questions of how they defined their own generation, of the events happening in Chile, of the relation to the parents the history of Chile to the social and political discourses and and that they were they immediately became the protagonists of the whole process and the project and that they are also the protagonists of what happened, and Marcos referring here to the protests and to what will be and as an example that now on the last weekend there was not only the election of the 155 people right in the constitution but also many mayors were elected and governors and many people on these political levels and many of them are young women and that they are the change that this all involves a change of paradigm and to conclude he said that the youth is always the avant-garde of the how do you say counter-culture they are always the avant-garde of the counter-culture and you see that in the Arab spring in the 15th of May movement in Spain or the recent protests in Colombia, Brazil, Mexico it's incredible that we think of Roberto Bolano who you also were part of to put his book into a theater play the hopelessness, the violence, the killings and now we have a moment of change done new generation as you point out it's an incredible thing what will happen now, what do you think will happen in Chile will this moment last will there be another military dictatorship come in and what will it do to your theater work, will your theater work be different so again what do you what does this moment mean what will happen, will it be successful and will you change how you make theater the most progressive constitution in the world I dare to say that even the most progressive in the world I am very confident that there is also a fear there is a dissolution that it does not work, that we do it wrong and also the great fear that is this shadow that has to do with the army of Chile with the military, with the powerful that they do not respect anything and at some point they will install the pain, the violence so it is also that I think we are always living between the dissolution, the utopia, the pain very complex just hold, hold the thought just go back about Martin, translate yes so it's in this very moment after the election of last weekend we are all full of hopes and passionate about the future and with the result of this election we really can start a new we can write on a blank white paper this constitution we can re-fund re-found our country and I would dare to say that we will have at the end one of the or even the most progressive constitution in the world obviously there is also this fear that it could go wrong that we could fail and there is always this shadow the shade of the military and other all the leads that they could not respect the process at all and they could re-install pain so we are always between this dissolution in the utopia as far as how to do theater yes I think we have that I feel that we close a stage but I think we close it before me as an artist I think from landscapes to not color later on for me I think a replacement also gave me the possibility to rethink my practices and transform me from that's why for me that work is so important to have been in contact with more than 150 teenagers for me it was a brutal change my head opened a new way of relating and from that work forward for example in all our projects we will always include a group of teenagers they have to be present I can no longer work without that group I need that that interpretation of the new visions we can not continue having the same vision so yes it changes the way we do theater it closes a chapter but actually for me that happened already before with paisajes para no colorar because from there on I know I will be working differently and I knew it also when we were only premiered that because it called into question the practices of aesthetic and theater creation and it changed and transformed also myself this work with over 150 teenagers it it opened up the way I was thinking about theater and also the forms of relating with each other the relationships we create with each other while doing art and in all the future works there will be teenagers as part of the process because they call us into question they bring in new questions things we have not been thinking about before so they will always be in the future part of the process I think our next project which is called Oasis of impunity it has to be a walk on a land not safe I think it has to be a moment to experiment to give space to make a real laboratory not to go safe to what has been tried I think today's times need that we also rethink our practices we will speak more on a formal level aesthetic formal level we also have to rethink what we do I feel that there is an excess of discourse the sense of expressing verbally discursive positions and then we have to look more into the glances that really crossed and cut through our bodies we have to think about that that has not been thought of yet it's actually something we are planning to do with our next project which is Oasis of impunity Oasis of impunity which is walking on a territory which is not secure to experiment to really do a theatrical laboratory to do that that has not been established yet to rethink what has been done so far tell us more about that project that project that project was born of questions that we have and that it has its base in the social workshop in that eruption that happened in those bodies that were on the streets of violence and also exercising violence and we have the question of how that violence lives when the body is devoid of indignation how does indignation live in the body I think it is a very interesting question and also to realize when violence is the only possible way of expression because it is also the only way to get to the mandate even if they are immoral and that seems successful so this project starts with questions that are very much linked to the social outburst this eruption sometimes is also said in Spanish because it is all about the bodies on the streets that are violent but they also are being violated and how violence is living in the bodies which burst out as part of this indignation and also a question on how this violence is the only way possible to express a form of resistance against what has already been inflicted on the bodies there is a lot of questions that although all the violence that we can say is legitimate because it is also supposedly called public order that seems to be the principle that is rigged there are many questions how do we want it to happen in a country if there is no justice from what perspective can we also legitimize the resistance that it carries with itself the exercise of violence but it has always been a violence that has to be very clear against material violence that seems very interesting to me because it seems that in this country it also takes care of a good material than the human life a good material has been raised hierarchically as a superior life and that I believe is worthy of how democracy has made us responsible for that so there are many questions about that presumably serves or presumably serves the public order but the question is how can there be peace in a country without justice and is there not legitimate form of resistance which uses and mobilizes violence as well and it's important to note that the protesters when they used violence it was against material goods in public space and that somehow in Chile these public these objects, these material objects are being more protected than the lives and bodies of humans and that tells us a lot about about how so far the state and the government have dealt with different forms of violence the one about violence against bodies which is not being persecuted and on the other side the violence against objects in public space and in that sense we return to a fundamental question that it really goes to a fundamental question is there a change possible without violence in the sense of the situation in Chile being paradigmatic there is a new constitution now and this is due to the violence that has occurred on the streets of Chile and in the sense of there is a new constitution and this is the violence that has occurred on the streets because that really made the political class to be afraid and they had to react and so that poses the question is transformation possible what are the means for transformation beyond violence yeah this is incredible questions each old questions you know what is real what is the utopia representation of bodies on the stage on bodies on streets how deals with that and I hope we will be able to see that work that's coming out also in form of this incredible moment I think also in the history of mankind you almost think about Haiti the uprisings and the early successful ones and French revolutions we actually celebrating 150 years that I'm right of the experiments of the Paris commune so it will be interesting to see how will these delegates work together something that came out of resistance on the street and how will they react to that always these bodies Rassine the bodies on the streets people were dreaming imagining a different future and they bring their lives and try to actively be part of a change in this moment it seems to be successful it seems to be that change has happened and will happen it is incredible coming closer to the end but Marco in theater what are your references what have you influenced in Latin America such a strong country with such a great tradition Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Venezuela and so many many other countries but there's European theater there's North American Canadian, Indian, Chinese so how are you in your school you made where do you sit, who are your heroes what has influenced you in your work aesthetic work with social movement what was important to you so I have many references it would be a huge variety and there are many artists of whom I admire many many things I mean if you talk about Chile Andres Perez would be an example but actually of every artist I know or I see something I would say I would say I would say that every artist I know or I see something I admire something of every work I see I admire something so actually I have to say that everything that I see is part of my world of references Now if I had to name one that I would prefer to know and to see his work and that what they do that I could never see before is Pina Bausch I think it changed me to see her as one of the most beautiful things that has happened to me in teatrally speaking so if I have to mention but one it would be someone who I actually met and I could see and it was sublime and the most beautiful thing I ever saw was Pina Bausch and that the experience really changed my perspective but as I said there are other collectives that artistically don't make sense but they do have an impressive social work that is inspiring so it could also be collectives which not necessarily in an artistic way but also in a social way impacted and inspiring I am a artist that I can see I am a big thief I observe a lot and I reuse what I find Fantastic I would like to thank both of you for taking the time especially Marco also we were lucky Martin when we talked together to create this talk that should happen now and also at this incredible outcome nobody really foresaw so this is really a moment we are as close as you can get and I'm stunned that this is not more represented in our papers in our news in the international news it is something sensational and so full of hope and the fact that theater and artists have been part of that revolution is turning is revolving and often takes 50-100 years for things to really change but this is a turning point and art has supported art has been on the side of social justice of democracy and the fight for freedom and Marco's work because I think but it also was dangerous it was not just something you wouldn't find work you wouldn't go out of course but it was never an easy business to create and produce a meaningful theater in Chile and we have our highest respect and we really hope that we will be able to see your work and to come back maybe as a as a closing statement for both of you whether it came to music or novels or films or whatever in that time of corona what inspired you something to think about and you felt this became more important to me in the time you live Marco maybe you start I didn't understand that at the end what music or literature or what influenced you in these months of the pandemic or what changed your perspective and what have you discovered now? Well I'm going to be very honest I imagine that every artist would say that it was a period of a lot of reading of a lot of inspiration I must say that the quarantine must be the moment in which I have less been able to read in my life because having children finished at nine at night very tired wanting to sleep I'm seeing or I'm more interested in literature I follow social networks for a long time I don't have social networks but I've been interested for a long time, the first six months to follow the social networks of people from the ultra-right of Chile I did a work in relation to that to read it and to write its comments that was my work reading the speeches of the ultra-right of Chile every day for five months So I will be very honest many artists will probably say that they had a lot of time for reading and inspiration during the quarantine of the lockdown but for me it was the time I read the least in my life because when you have children you're at home then you only could read at night and then you are super exhausted from all the work at home Something else I did and this is perhaps interesting is especially at the beginning of the pandemic to read in the social media within the networks of the ultra-right, extreme right conservative milieus of Chile in the social media to see what these people were writing I did a work on that and I was researching that for five months so they would look at it and what the other it was it was I think that translates Good thing to open up and see what does the other side think and we can only hope everybody did that so this is something that makes us different from others in our field and that way is open and it's thinking and looks at other things but Martin for you I actually wanted to take the opportunity from my perspective to add three things to what we have been discussing throughout this hour now which is to stress again because I was in Chile before the pandemic 2021 over Christmas and January so I saw the streets it was really impressing how everything was formed and how monuments were redefined really to understand the artistic imprint of these demonstrations and what happened and the shows and how this idea of staging and redesigning the cityscape and appropriating urban space is really something that has to be stressed a lot the second thing we all have to learn was quite visible for me when I was there is that thinking in an intersectional you think of feminism ecological questions, questions of indigenous people all these things they are so intertwined and connected they can only be thought together which is something we intellectually always claim but if I look into the German discourses every debate is singled out you talk about ecology, you talk about feminism but you don't connect these false colonial questions and in Chile these things are tied together and this is really I think the seed for the success we're seeing now it's food for thought of how we are doing our intellectual work in the US but also here in Europe and the third thing I wanted to stress is that this project Marco was telling about the impunity is thought as a model project of how international collaborations should be in the future because the model we have been collaborating and co-producing and showing things at festivals before the pandemic we lost him for a moment Martin if you can hear us we lost him so he did say you know that the stunning developments in this uprising and people were obviously redecorating the street furniture the public furnitures as we say taking public space back and how significant that was and I think also what Martin said is of real significance that first of all it is successful something happened and the significance is that what he now pointed out and this is something very important I think to Ponder think about it like he said the issues were seen as connected and not as separate something very different from a German discourse or perhaps although from the US Martin go back to your third point the third point is about international collaboration because before you know a lot of I mean I don't have to talk about ecological footprint but also how do we finance projects elsewhere which we then later invite to feed our debates our discourses you know especially those that are privileged like I would say the US the European countries we have our perspective on the rest of the world we invite words of art but we are not contributing to them being produced in the first place so we only are interested in our own narrow discourses that are well off local and we have to rethink how we work together how we co-produce how we also redefine time for creation so far we have only paid for showing things but not for debates in between for the interstitial work for the creation and so we are at a moment where we have to rethink international collaboration and this project is like an attempt to do so connecting theaters festivals across Europe and in the Americas to really take ownership and responsibility for artists amazing it's important something we should research and we need new forms we need new ways we have to radically rethink Kirill Srebrenikov who was here said nothing works worked we know that we have to start now from zero again we have to reinvent things we have to question everything as Milo Rao says you are part of this M&M Marco the M&M work is part of this thank you so much Martin for translating I know it's so complicated and to do that on a life situation here it took us a little bit more time than the normal hour because we had to translate but Marco thank you for sharing for being here with us and we can feel you are still under the impression of what happened you are still processing it and it was a great privilege for us to be part of an internal listener I would like to point out to really follow that see what will happen it is something of real interest and also what does it mean for theater and the arts really one, two, three, four, five years what changed, what came out of it and often these periods of change also produce great art, the uncertainty and yes the questions of you know what is violence, when it's wrong like in the January 6th in the US when it's so very big questions and everybody is wrestling with it but as Martin pointed out something worked in Chile something and we have we need to find out why and it goes with yeah and it goes without saying that we are representing all the company all the team of Lara Sentida now it's two of us but the team is much much bigger and I also wanted to stress that it's very nice that we are actually we're speaking Spanish because it's a reality of the cities we live in that they are multilingual and I don't have to tell that to you in a place like New York but it's good that we also in these forms of artistic exchange we really just have a natural relation to speaking in different languages so thank you great contribution towards our global series and this is what makes us also different what we are interested in really interested was fantastic to hear from you Marco great work 150 young female teenagers and to really listen to them but to really listen and do something with it and to also then in the big picture see what happens when young voices the kids who said we are not going to pay the subway ticket that's higher you know so it was the last thing you know what came out of that and it was started by young people and so on Martin thank you great work also with which we follow in about the public space of the city the project you guys have we are all really interested about that because in New York we have questions what will happen what should happen so it's great to hear from you so thank you for howl around again for hosting us VJ, Thea Andy for making it possible the listeners for sticking with us it takes a bit more time for the translations but this is the reality of the word world and we should be much much more used to that it should be actually normal or as someone said like the great Gorky's theater in Berlin when they translated every plane German with subtitles all New York theater should have subtitles in Spanish or part of it could be in Spanish or in English why not the actors are out there who can do it in many places so we need to also realize what we actually advocate for on our own stage it was a great contribution next week with Carol Martin back about the theater of the real voices from New York and from around the world so thank you all and again Marco and Martin thank you and to our listeners I hope you will stick with us and listen to us so much as out there but we feel the global discourse which we have here is important and also good for Marco to know and more people are listening people are interested and we really really yeah so bye bye and I hope to see you all in person bye bye and thanks bye thank you yeah bye bye thank you thanks for taking bye