 That's right. Yeah, okay. It's just regular. Just pronounce it like it's American. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to another episode of Cloud Native TV here at KubeCon, day zero wrap-up show. I am Chris Short, CNCF Ambassador, Kubernetes contributor, and currently employed at Red Hat as a technical marketing manager running the Red Hat live streaming channels. I am here today with Laura Santamaria, one of our many guests that we'll have today on the air. Laura, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm excellent. How are things at Pulumi going? They are amazing. You're having a wonderfully lovely time. Yeah, I'll say, how has KubeCon treating you? KubeCon has been fun. I've only been here for about a day and a half now so far. My flight got late. I think everybody else's flight was late. Yeah, exactly. You know, something along that line. But no, I've gotten to see a lot of people. It's nice to be back in person. Right. Just seeing people in real life. I kind of don't recognize anybody because they all have masks on. Yeah, like it's really hard. I will freely admit that, like I saw people I definitely knew walk right past them. Yep. And then like, they stopped and turn around like, Chris? Yes, exactly. That's exactly been happening. So also, everyone's told me I'm much taller than I am. You are much taller than you appear on camera. So yeah, just so that you know, he's much taller than me. Just in case you're not sure about that one. So what did you do today? Day zero? I mean, well, first things first, I missed my run this morning because, you know, getting in late. So that was kind of a bit of a bummer. But then we went and got our badges. And it was really easy. So for anybody coming in late, it's really simple. Just take your clear app, you do the little health survey thing, show them the thing, and they go, great, go in that way. And they check your temperature and they say, keep going. And you go pick up your badge. And I'm like, Oh, this is simple. This is nice. Yes, I was thinking it was going to be more. I was expecting like a 40 minute line. Yeah, like it was not as I was done in five minutes. Yeah. But you have to check in every day, right? And like, yeah, that's not bad. No, that's not too bad. I'll take the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday stickers and just live on with life little sticker. I'm done. So cool. And then wandered around the convention center a little bit till I made it to OpenShift Commons. So I stopped through there, watched some talks. That was really good. Yeah, we had a good time. And then got to see more people, went to lunch, went and helped out with our sponsor booth. Right. And then went to see more people. And it's been great. Like seeing people. Yeah, like real life people. I thought I would be more anxious about it at first. Right. I definitely didn't know what to talk about at first because like, like, what have you been doing during the pandemic? I don't know. Something along that line. Right? Like, it's just been entertaining. Which new hobby did you pick up? Exactly. Look, or, you know, how many windows did you watch? Everything happened out of? Yeah, right. Exactly. My son knows a lot more about birds. Well, that's good. It's a good thing to learn. I mean, maybe. Hobby. Hobbies are good. Yeah, there's some weird sounding bird names in like the state of Michigan. Let me tell you. Anyways, that's okay. So Commons and then you did some booths set up. Yeah, setting up for the booth. We've got a booth up here. Helped out with some other booths set up because, you know, why not? Just saw some people there like trying to figure out how to open up their sticker packs and, you know, I'd like I have a pen. We can use a pen to open this up. So I sat there helping them open their sticker packs. Yeah, they're not having a pair of scissors around is really, it's really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So is the booth all set up ready for tomorrow? We are ready. I'm so excited to start seeing people again. Yeah, like come by. It'll be right. Stop by the plume booth. Wander by every booth because it's gonna be fun. Like there's companies I have not heard of here. And it's just like, Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, where'd you come from? Where'd you come from? Exactly. Yeah. The interesting thing is going to be how many people are like, I don't have any more tech shirts because they've all gotten worn over the past year and a half. How many people are going to be going by like shopping all the booths for more tech shirts? Well, I will be. Yeah, I think a lot of people will. Like only the good ones though. That's true. I will assess the field and then go pick what I think is best. Something like that. If you see me in front of your booth writing something down on my phone, that's that's a good sign. Yeah, maybe he's tweeting about it though. Yeah. How we know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So tomorrow, are you speaking? No, tomorrow, I am wandering around. I'm going to be at the booth. Okay. Going to be wandering around seeing all the keynotes. Nice. Finding more people to hang out with and say hi to. Right. And people can heckle me on Twitter. I will heckle back. It'll be fun. What's your Twitter handle? No one's actually going to be able to actually write this down. I know. Yeah, it's okay. So Nimbunatus, it's, it's Latin. Don't ask me. You can start laughing. It's okay. N-I-M-B-I-N-T-U-S. A-T-U-S. A-T-U-S. Good Lord. All right. Wow. It's all good. Yeah. All right. Look for Laura Santamaria. But, well, awesome. Thanks for having me. No problem. Thank you. All right. So who's next? I think who wants to go next? All right. We're having fun looking over there. Like, who wants to go first? Who's my next victim? Bring it on. Come on. Thank you, Laura. You're welcome. I'm gonna hand you the mic. Have fun. Andrew? I'll try. I'll do fun. I'm all right. Glad to be here, Chris. Happy to have you here. How was your day zero? Did you go for a run this morning? I did not. I had the intention to do so. Did you really? I did not. No. I didn't either. I failed today. Got tomorrow. Yeah, I didn't bring the shoes. Anyways, so here we are. Los Angeles. Security count. Okay. So you were down the hall. Yeah. Down the hall. Ran from nine to five. We had a great selection of created tracks. For the first year, we had a breakout room. Wow. Two separate tracks. Nice. We also had a capture the flag event, which has been an absolute success as scenarios of Kubernetes clusters made available for people to attack at. Nice. So what was the most interesting like thing you might have learned today about? Might have learned. Yeah. You know, cloud native security can be very intimidating. Agreed. Yeah. And we have the tendency to deep dive and assume and leave a lot of folks behind because context matters. It's been quite the evolution of lowering that barrier of entry, making information more accessible. We've produced a number of artifacts this year around security maps, reference architectures, security audits for projects. So Andy actually wrapped up the event talking about his Hack and Kubernetes book that's about to get published as someone leaving the event super excited. You get to the workplace and you have a hard time explaining folks what is that got you so excited. Yeah. And yeah, you can check out the code and GitHub, but getting it from there to production, there's a lot of people to convince. Yes. So we got this resources that once you get to talk to your security pals, they can understand the attributes, the failure modes, the compensating controls, and make the journey from zero to production easier. And knowing that you've paid attention to security, you've incorporated it as part of the design and that there's enough thought of how to integrate those interfaces with other sharp tools. Wow. So yeah, y'all had an awesome day, it sounds like. It was good. Yeah, it was good. Yeah, we got we got plenty of work ahead of us still. But yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, we got all attending to do. Yeah. So the the rest of the conference, what are your plans? I am co-presenting with Brandon Lum tomorrow. Okay. We got somewhat of a contentious title, creating cloud native security. Credits go to Emily Fox, who is also part of the percent and crew who's unfortunately not not with us this week. Right. Yeah. We're looking forward to that. Looking forward to the hallway track. Oh, yeah, yeah. Very good conversations, seeing what other people are about. Like, what have they been working on? What have they been taking away? Awesome. Yeah, man. So any booth duty for on your schedule? VMware actually made the decision not to have a booth. Interesting. To give folks the option not not have them feel they were committed to attend. That it was an option for them to to come or not, but it was not mandated by work to be here. Okay. Yeah, that's cool. We were intending to have a booth in office hours for our security technical advisory group. Okay. We decided not to do that because also running with a skeleton crew and most of our folks are remote. Right. Yeah. I mean, the Kubernetes contributors are kind of the same thing, right? Like, not a lot of people were here. We just decided, hey, let's turn it into a new contributor workshop, Doc Sprint, and off we go, right? So still make use of the space, but not waste the time. Rolling with the punches. Exactly. So being very flexible is kind of key this year, I feel like. No curve balls have come at us yet, but hey, we'll see. We have great reach and engagement through cloud native TV. I feel like it. Yeah, omnipresent. Yeah, but you know what though? I just realized, Bill, I did not grab that laptop or iPad over there, which is fine. But anyways, I can't see your comments. That's the only problem. Sorry, folks. If you yell loud enough, maybe I'll hear you. Yeah. So who's up next? Feel good? Andres, thank you for joining. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. All right. Let's see. Let's go back here. I do enjoy a good pineapple pizza. Sacrifice in some places. Yes. Yes. Yes. So how are you doing today? Very well indeed. Yeah. So you've got a book coming out of here. Yes, I do. I mean, primarily we were running the CTF alongside supply chain con, right? Well, sorry, that was yesterday alongside security con, both excellent, excellent days. And yeah, we stood up at 600 nodes. We had about 150 players. Wow. Everyone gets their own dedicated cluster for each scenario. Nice. And yeah, the learning outcomes on this occasion were based upon exercises and sort of tests that our red team have done on production systems for customers. Okay. So we had a higher bar than we would do normally. Right. And people got them really well. Wow. So what was like the coolest hack, maybe? Well, actually. Or compromise incident, whatever you want to call it, right? Yeah. We did two live streams through the day. Okay. And on the second one, we had Duffy and some other folks on there. And Duffy said he was tempted to drop the Run C exploit that he's going to talk about tomorrow as part of the CTF, which is kind of a bit of a gangster move. That would be pretty funny. Yeah. We, yeah, we believe we're on the latest patch versions, but always checking. So yeah, the often with cloud native systems, because everything's declarative, there's a well known attack surface. Brad Geesman likes to say that the application is the soft underbelly, right? Pubernetic security. Yeah. It's a great turn of phrase. It is. And so, yeah, we started off with an injection attack. Had to pop a reverse shell to get assistance inside the container, then exploit our back, jump around to other places. Another scenario we had some mission controllers, Coverno in that case, that were using regexes to validate entry. And then you can get around these things. Yeah. Regex, I mean, like regex is, like, if you think YAML is bad, right? Like, or for the, not to say YAML is bad or anything, but if you think you've got a perfect regex, I feel like you're just waiting for something to happen, right? Like, if it's really vet your regex and maybe ask your vendor if you're using one, you know, hey, is this a good way to implement this? Because yeah, there's a lot of ways to get around regex, like validation nowadays. Yeah. And it comes with the territory because we've been given the skills to write our own policy, which is amazing. And now we've got so much flexibility. But then it's always who will watch the watches kind of thing. Had a great conversation with somebody on maybe stackable admission controllers. If you're looking to sign the configuration that you're pushing into the admission controller, then you do that with an operator, or you do what kind of Aparma stackable LSMs do and just run two of the same thing, one to make sure that the other one's not being compromised. Interesting. Yeah, it's a bit philosophical at this stage, but... That's metaphysical almost. So what are you most looking forward to this week, the week ahead, I guess? I'm speaking tomorrow as well. I've got a Kubernetes software factory talk, kind of all the supply chain. There's so much conversation about this. So I'm trying to go high level and just summarize what everyone else is talking about because there's so many great people who've written tools. Right, and gone down the rabbit hole kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. So I'll do that tomorrow. I will shamefully cross promote the book in any and every occasion. Who's hacking Kubernetes? Who's the publisher? Oh, Riley. Beautiful. Awesome. Did you have a co-writer? Yeah, Michael Hasenblas. Oh, perfect. Awesome. I know Michael. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, he guided me through the process and obviously he's a pre-eminent and well-published author already. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, really excited. It's due to be published, I think, at the end of this month, something like that. Cool. So yeah, definitely check that out. And then I always love the... I mean, I love going on the bootcrawls. I love the all attendee parties. And just, I mean, it's, as everyone says, it's just a delight to see people in the... It really is, right? Like, if you're watching, you're not here. I'm sorry, you can't experience it for yourself, but it's very reassuring to be seeing people again, right? Like, when you look at how things have gone the past 18 months, it's wild that we're even sitting here right now, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it's crazy. And, you know, we are six feet apart here, but yeah, everyone's wearing their masks, using the hand sanitizer. I haven't heard of any problems. It's just, you know, this is life. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's hope and we can learn to live. I love the interaction bracelets. Yes. The degree of sort of interaction you're happy to have with somebody. Right. So yeah, though, an interesting, like, if you've been to cube cons before, there are now red, yellow and green wristbands, which I put on my lanyard just so people can see them more easily, but you can wear them on your wrist, no problem. To indicate, like, what level of physical contact or, you know, interaction you're willing to take and, like, literal, like, guide to it next to the bowls of them. It's pretty nice. And, yeah, like, Laura, for example, has a red and a green one, just in case. You never know, right? Like, you might change your mind walking back to the hotel, right? Like, you already go to bed, just put on a red one and you're good. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's awesome. So, book. Any other talks you're looking forward to, maybe? Oh, man. I would admit to barely having even glanced at the schedules. To be honest, I'm in the same boat, right? Like, I usually, this is the night that I look through the schedule and, like, line up all the places I want to be. Yeah. Yeah. I have, I love the calendar export feature, so I did go through it a few months ago. I do have a calendar that will tell me where I need to be. So, you did the legwork already. Yeah. See, you're ahead of the game. I'm not. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. I haven't had a moment to reflect. So pleased that we've now shipped the CTF, shipped the last two days. Like, the last two day zero conferences were just brilliant. Really. Yeah. So much. Awesome. And, yeah, so I'll kind of settle back into it and get my conference groove on again. There you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is great to be just back here with everyone. I mean, it's, it's like the band got back together, it feels like a little bit, maybe. I mean, it's not, it's not quite, you know, to that level, but close. So, yeah, you know, it's, it's an experience when you walk through a hotel and you're like, hey, there's somebody I know from, you know, another part of the world, maybe potentially. Absolutely. I mean, I haven't seen so many U.S. friends for two years. Right. Universally. Yeah. I mean, people didn't realize how tall I was, for example. You know, right? Like, it's just one of those things. Yeah. So anything else you want to plug or talk about? Or, you know, I don't know if I've got any plugs left in me. Yeah. There you have it. All right. So who is next up here? Go next. All right. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. So you wearing a Spire shirt. How's it going? Yeah, good. Awesome. There's so much stuff going on these few days. Please introduce yourself for the audience. Let people know, you know, what you've been up to today. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Brandon Lam. I'm the co-chair of the CNCF Tech Security. Awesome. So naturally, you know, we've been hanging out at the security con today. There's just so many security-centric events over these past few days. It's been a real focus, like a real focus. The number of times I heard supply chain already. Like even in, like, non-security-related ones, because I bounced between OpenShift Commons and GitOps.com today. And it was mentioned in both, right? Like, so it's like a universal need. No, I mean, security is one of those things where you can't really escape it, right? It's, we're trying to kind of bring developers, you know, a whole dev-off-dev-sec ops thing. It's kind of, really isn't about, you know, creating a new, you know, pipeline or anything. It's really about making sure that people come together and that it's a shared responsibility going forward. Right. I think, I mean, yeah, there's not going to be one team that's going to manage your Kubernetes security, I don't think. No, it's just, it is a collaborative effort and multi-layered thing. So what are you working on in, I mean, in tech security right now? I know there's some papers that have been out lately, some stuff's been going on. You want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, so there's some awesome stuff we've done in the past, right? We've done the CNCF-Cognitive Security White Paper. Yep. Recently, we just launched the Cognitive Security Map, which is like landscape, geographical website where you can go in, navigate through it, look at the different, you know, more from practical approach. Right. What are the projects that, if I'm looking at, you know, image signing, artifact signing, what are the projects I have to look at, and things like that. One of the things that I think is really cool that was just released today was the Cognitive Security Microsurvey. Ooh. Yeah. Okay. So this was something. Please tell me you have a short URL you could say on there or something. Unfortunately, I don't. Okay, fair enough. But if you look hard enough on Twitter, you'll find it. Yeah, exactly. All right guys, what is this Microsurvey going to cover? Yeah, so this Microsurvey kind of, it's a follow-up from one of our previous surveys that kind of looked at, you know, generally what people are looking for. We are checking back up on what are the concerns and challenges of the industry in general. So, you know, we see things like, you know, supply chain being obviously one of the top things. Right. But I think one thing that, you know, we also saw a lot of things on vulnerability management, secret management as well being like big things. One of the key things I will mention in this was that organizations actually found more than 50% of the respondents said that they felt like they couldn't, they didn't have the right expertise or the talent to be able to implement security. Well, to be fair, the market is super hot right now. And there was a reason for that is because the talent is very much wanted, right. So learning Kubernetes, thinking about Kubernetes securely and operating in that secure model is going to be the wave of the future, right. Like, it's, it's not something we can say, hey, you know, let's worry about security after the cluster is deployed. No, it's part of the life cycle of that cluster. Yeah. Right. That's awesome. Yeah. And then we, we talked a little bit about, you know, edge use cases, you know, what the concerns there, you know, it's up and coming with 5G, with IoT, you know, edge is becoming a more prevalent use case. Yeah. And like, we, we have a lot of other projects such as like the security defaults, right. Eight, which is kind of like, you know, how we in Python, you have the PEP 8, which is like the style guideline. This is like the security defaults guideline of if I'm starting a project as a maintainer, what should be my mindset and approach that I think about with going forward with how I design the skill configuration of my, my project. Interesting. Yeah. That's very nice. I might have to go read that. Like, I know it's going to be long and it might take me a few hours, but that's fine. I might have to take a break. But anyways, so what are you looking forward to in the conference this week? So I'm going to be talking, I think Andrews mentioned that we're doing a talk tomorrow on cognitive security. I have another talk on Thursday that we're talking about workload identity, you know, spiffy spires, you should say. Yeah. So we're going to be talking about, you know, how do you deal with the access control problem when you go from a single cloud to multi-cloud. Now you have all this tens of thousands of things you have to manage together and it becomes, it becomes a difficult management problem. So that's, we're going to be talking about how you can use spiffy spire to address that. But in general, there's so much excitement for spiffy inspire. There's like, I think there were like three talks, three or four talks throughout the entire con. So for folks that don't know, right, like what do spiffy inspire do for you? Yeah. So spiffy is the secure product, production identity framework for everyone. The main idea of spiffy is how it defines what workload identity is and how workloads can securely obtain identities and to be able to perform, you know, authentication between the different workloads to, you know, this idea, I know the, the work gets thrown a lot around zero trust. Sure. You know, being able to authenticate, being able to attest everything that you have, so that, you know, you have kind of assurance that when I'm talking to you, Chris, that you really are Chris, right? Yeah, exactly. Isn't that nice? Yeah. You know, I am the pod you're looking for. Yeah. So with everything going on, you know, security wise out there in the world right now, it's, you know, every day I wake up, there's another breach. So people moving to Kubernetes have to consider the security aspect as they're moving, right? Like it's, it's not like you can bolt it on after the fact. I mean, you can, but like technically, yes, you can, but it's a bad idea to wait, start secure and follow that kept bait kind of thing. Yeah. And, and you know, a lot of times people say like security is costly, but if you do it earlier, you're actually saving costs. Right. Yeah. Yes. Building that into your pipelines and automating that security process as much as possible and then verifying it. Like you said, you know, like that's very important. Checking everything zero trust. Yeah. Like not, not saying, oh, yeah, you know, that pot is definitely good, even though it's not signed or, you know, anything. Yeah. So the, the talk you're doing, it's, you know, broad is what Andrew said. So the, the main topics, what are you going to talk on? I guess. So, so the main idea right is, is going to be talking about with workload identity, I think as a community with kind of looked at it in terms of what the cloud providers have provided us with. IM systems and stuff like that. Right. And then we take a look at the autogonal problem, which is user identity, right, which we've been, you know, for decades, this has been kind of the status quo already. And how we manage it is, you know, we don't think about user like Chris AWS or Chris GCP or something like that. Right. We think about Chris as a person. Right. And I think the, the main concept is we want to have the same idea with workload identity. Right. We don't want to say this is platform specific thing. It belongs to the organization. Sorry. Yeah. If you can hear that, there was an announcement going on. Sorry. They want to hear more about it. Yes. I mean, so what are you most excited about in the talk, I guess, I'm most excited to see like, kind of hearing other folks, what they think about this, hearing, you know, while it's on the pain points, while there's some, some things we can better integrate with, you know, I think in the end, we all want the same thing. And we just have to really get together and discuss and figure out the common goal and the common way to achieve that instead of like, trying all the different things. 400 different ways to do it. Yeah. Mucher rejects. That's not good. Yeah. So any parting thoughts before I bring up the next person? Is there some piece of knowledge you want to share with the cloud native world? Because now's your chance. Yeah, I think, I think, I think I've said this before as well, you know, going into security, everyone doesn't have full knowledge of what I'm going to do, right? And so it's like, every incremental thing you can do, you know, look for the things that easy win, start with that, start building out your security posture from day one. Day one. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, think about it before you start even deploying exactly. All right. So who's next up here? Thanks. Thank you. Appreciate you coming on. No. So, Edith, you're next. Oh boy. No. Be fine. Thank you. So, so folks, if you have questions, feel free to ask. We have a bunch of experts here. I promise I'll make this easy. Yes, because I'm learning English. Okay. Sorry. Congratulations for your next step in your career. So thank you very much. Awesome. So this is your first Q crown? It's a, I can say it's my first coupon. The first one was in 2019. Okay. But I wasn't able to speak English. So I can consider this the first one. Awesome. That's great. So what do you do? I'm a software engineer. I was working for a company Places Equal two years ago. Then I decided to prepare for my master in computer science. And right now I am just studying English and doing some, improving some skills. Awesome. So what's your first coupon? Were you speaking English? My first coupon, speaking English, this one. Yeah. Yeah. And is there anything you're looking forward to in particular? Needwork is awesome here. Yeah. And also some technical sessions about beginners in Kubernetes. I'm looking for that kind of session. Yeah. So how intimate, like this might be a very forward question, but how intimidating is Kubernetes for you, right? Like, it's not too much, I think. Yeah. For me, it's a little bit because of the language. Right. But I think even, even about that, I can, I can make in Greece my needwork and also I can learn many things. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's a font of knowledge literally just every day. Yeah. Awesome. So you're networking. This is, there's 3000 plus people here, I think. The network opportunities are awesome so far that I've seen. Have you, who have you met that you were looking for? Are you looking forward to meeting anyone in particular? Or is there someone you've met right now or recently? I meet some people. So I meet a guy I used from one university. He's studying PhD. Nice. So we are in changing technologies about Kubernetes operator, for example. Nice. Okay. Awesome. What, what, I mean, what challenges do you see with Kubernetes and your day to day work? I'm looking more deeper knowledge because I am preparing for my certification in Kubernetes for developers. Nice. So the last time I tried, I failed. Well, it's not a trivial one. It's, it's, it's hard to, I will try again. And I will reach the, the score. So now I am trying to, to get the knowledge here. Awesome. That's fantastic. What kind of like study things have you done to, you know, bolster those skills? Because, you know, there's a CKA, the CKAD, you know, that it focus on two different kinds of, you know, operations versus developer kind of, nor not versus, but different flavors or personas maybe. What is it that you think were some of the hardest parts of that test? I mean, is there, is, is there one thing that you could be like, Hey, I would study this piece of material more than the other, not giving away any of the test answers or anything like that. Yeah. Bill's over here, like about to rip my neck off. What, what would you suggest people focus on? First of all, I, I can say that if the, if the people want to start in Kubernetes, they should dominate containers. Yes. Dockers is a very good way to go. Then start to practice for some certification because that forces you to learn some basics. Right. Fundamentals about Kubernetes and the certifications for developers is a good point to start. Right. Yeah. So where is everything fundamental and more easy than Kubernetes for administrator and security? I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, the security ones are hard. Yeah. So the, the, what are your next steps here during kube.com? What are you going to, like, what are you looking forward to? In, in the kube.com? Like during this week? Yeah. I would like to, I would like to attend more, even more sessions for beginners. Yeah. Then in my future steps is also to propose an, an session to, to, to talk. Yeah. That'd be great. So I, I, I'm preparing for that. So I'm doing my English and also trying to know more about my technicals, technicals about Kubernetes. Right. So that is my next step. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So you're not a beginner per se, but you're, you're closer to the beginning of your journey. What made you get involved in Kubernetes? What was it about the project? Was it something at work or was it just a curiosity of your own? Yes. It was curiosity. Okay. I always feel attracted for technology, but new technology. And Kubernetes was in the time attendance threat. So I started to do some demos for myself. Then the company where I was working, I just mentioned that I made some demos and they say, okay, let's try to make a project and we start to work in a project. That's awesome. So how's that process going, right? Like, it was a challenge. I can say it was a challenge. Difficult because of the frustration to try to work, to try to work something because in that time we was working with GPUs. And this is our challenge that the normal Kubernetes, we should know about NVIDIA over Kubernetes. Over Kubernetes. Yeah. And I can say that it was a challenge, but we finally we did it. That's awesome. No, the GPU use case in Kubernetes has just grown over the years. And I see that becoming like almost a better option for compute, maybe, right? Like, you can definitely throw a few GPUs at a problem and it'll potentially outperform multiple cores, right? So yeah, it's very, very powerful way to manage your compute. That's pretty cool, right? Like, how long how long did that project take out of curiosity? Maybe one year. Okay. Yeah, from like, from idea to actually in use. Yes. Awesome. Great. So what's next for you, as far as the next Kubernetes project that you're going to tackle potentially other than the CKAD? You said you were going to do a talk or propose a talk. Let me know if you need any help with that. And then the CKAD, after that, what do you think your next step will be? I will definitely would like to start a project from scratch for a big company, bigger. Right. Move up on the road. Lead the project. Awesome. Yeah, that'd be great. Are you volunteering in the project right now? Are you working on the aspect of it or with anybody, any SIG or anything? In Kubernetes, I am doing some contributions. I'm trying to translate from English to Spanish. That's awesome. Make more accessible. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. Also, I am trying to get enter into the query to contribute to the query of Kubernetes. Awesome. That's awesome. So I have no idea how much time we have left whenever we want. Okay, cool. Any parting thoughts before we potentially sign off for the day? Party? What are any other thoughts that you have about? I don't know. I just want to say thank you so much for the invitation and enjoy in Cubicon 2021. Yeah, it's awesome. We're back, folks. And yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on. So, folks, that's all the guests I have for today lined up. Thank you very much to our live studio audience here, all five of you. So yes, it being day zero, it's kind of quiet out here right now. But to my left is the vendor hall, which will be buzzing tomorrow. So feel free to check that out. And yes, awesome. Yes, thank you for sharing your experience. Yes, thank you everybody that came on today for sharing your experiences. And I am Chris Short. And you can follow me on Twitter at Chris Short. And if you have any questions, feel free to send them to me on the Kate Slack. And I'm happy to help you out with anything that I can help with. And for now, I'm signing off. We'll see you around.