 Now this is about Bernie Sanders actually because you are a national campaign co-chair and Just an observation that I've made is that Bernie 2019 version is exponentially better than Bernie 2015 I have less criticisms of Bernie Sanders now than I did back then But there's still one area where I'm wondering How easy it would be or difficult it would be for us to get the needle to move and as a national campaign co-chair I'm wondering if Well look hey the speeches you've made have been fantastic, so you absolutely get credit and the campaign is doing a fantastic job and look I everyone who watches my podcast knows I Absolutely unequivocally endorse Bernie Sanders, and he's exactly what we need and I commend you for being courageous and endorsing him Like a matter of days after he announced, but here's what I want to ask you so this is in Relation to foreign policy and human rights And this is about a quote that Bernie Sanders said in 2015 of August in an interview with ABCs this week And it's rubbed me the wrong way, and I haven't let it go so let me read you that quote So he said this about drones I think we have to use drones very very selectively and effectively that has not always been the case What you can argue is that there are times and places where drone attacks have been effective There are times and places where they have been absolutely counter effective and have caused more problems than they have solved When you kill innocent people what the end result is that people in the region become anti-american who otherwise would not have been So on one hand, this is better than Trump. This is better than Obama. You see his concern for human rights However, I don't think that this is very realistic because when you look at the statistics It just doesn't seem like there's any effective way to use drones So in March of 2019 the editorial board of the New York Times cited airwars that claims 7600 to 12,000 civilians have been killed due to our drone strikes since 2014 and that number since this article was published has Increased it's now 8 to 12,000 90% of people killed according to a 2015 report by the intercept were not enemy combatants They were civilians and Pentagon documents obtained by the intercept revealed that there are various technological flaws As well as dubious intelligence that is often used that results in human beings dying and that's just what we can quantify I mean, there are psychological issues that we are causing Kids in Pakistan who have PTSD who are afraid to leave their homes when it's sunny because they know that drones will be patrolling They're gonna hear the buzzing and they'll immediately feel, you know fearful So my question is can we get Bernie to actually move and come out and say unequivocally? We will not use drones because unfortunately This isn't something that has been effective. What do you think just as a national campaign co-chair? Is that something he's movable on? I certainly Will take some of the data. I mean if it's the case that 90% of the phone strikes In Afghanistan have killed civilians and I think Bernie Sanders would say Based on his quote from 2015 that it's not working there if there are You may not want to take the option completely off the table if there are areas of counterterrorism where it's been effective it hasn't it caused civilian massive civilian loss of life But I I think it's a very different approach from any of his predecessors where there wasn't a There wasn't there was too much of a willingness to rely on on drone strikes without a sufficient Understanding of the civilian laws of life. So I will I will talk to him about it my Instinct and again, you know, I don't want to commit Senator Sanders to any position makes these decisions my instinct is that he would say that we need to evaluate them region by region case by case and if there is Evidence that you're citing that in places where they're being used their massive civilian casualties and they aren't Attacking or keep targeting terrorists then he wouldn't use them and Thank you. Thank you for raising this, you know to Bernie Sanders because I think that he is someone who like you responds really well to constructive criticism and feedback and One other thing that I want to add is just the legal issue This does violate, you know, the territorial integrity and sovereignty of these countries and Pakistani courts have ruled that these drone strikes in Their home turf. It's illegal. So really the way that I picture this is in the events, you know, in my state of Oregon I saw Russia doing drone strikes. I would absolutely Unequivocally be appalled I would be rebelling. So it's not even just a matter of counterterrorism tactics I mean, I think that we see that this is making people more radicalized in the region because this they see this as a threat to their lives Because this this has affected them very personally again if they don't know anyone who was killed or injured by a drone They have that psychological, you know, a fear of drones embedded in their heads for the rest of their lives So the way that I see this is This is still warfare. This is wars. This is an invasion. This is occupation But we're just calling it something different, you know under the guise of fighting terrorism And it's not really effective. So I will sort of respectfully disagree with you on on the Oregon analogy and that You know, if we were terrorists in Oregon that were attacking Russia, it would probably be a different case and there are You know terrorists in Afghanistan and part of Pakistan, but I think the effectiveness argument is a different Is something that's more good to me more concerned I mean, if it's the case that we're sending groans and they're killing 90 percent Civilians and only 10 percent terrorists that I think we're just breeding more hate more anger and people who are going to grow up without their parents or their Brother or their uncles are going to end up Growing up in the United States. So to me it's a Counter-productive if the statistics that you're citing are true Which I don't I don't doubt and I think what we need to look at is very objectively Are these the strikes working in our goal, which is to get terrorists or are they killing civilians and further Radicalizing a population because of that. I can tell you this Bernie Sanders is going to approach things with a great concern for human rights and with a great concern for Constitutionality He is not a pacifist He believes we need to go after the terrorists and if we're hit that we're going to strike terrorists And he believes that that's a very legitimate use of American military force, but he also had a Deep understanding that that has to be done really respecting civilians Okay, that's that's good to hear and look let me just say this for the record I am not saying that Bernie would be as bad as Donald Trump because it's gotten the worst under Donald Trump You know drone strikes under him have increased by more than 400 percent according to some estimates And there's also a lack of transparency that The Obama administration had finally put into place towards the end of his administration So I know that Bernie will be better, but my concern is better still isn't good enough So just the mere fact that you're willing to bring this to Bernie's attention for now is absolutely good enough You know for me and Bernie is he's still one of the best when it comes to foreign policy So just a matter of you know making him even measurably better. That's great. So look row