 Yo Hey, what's up, buddy? Oh? Not too much. How about yourself? I'm marvelous. Thanks for joining the show. I Appreciate it. I know you're busy. I think this is the first time I've talked to you I want to say I don't remember anything else Yeah, voice to voice we've had our we've had our goes on Twitter I leave I've never tried to karate fight you before but we've had our goes. Okay. Okay. Everybody my audio is good boys I think it's pretty good Is it echoing back to your mind at all? No, I sound fine Okay, I hear fine. If it does I just put on a headphone or something Everything sounds good, but yeah. Well, first of all, I want to congratulate you. I know we are similar in the Fatherhood, I think this is our first Madden at least launched with being a father, right? Yeah Yeah, I got my like few months behind yours. I think you said yours nine minus six. Yeah So how are you dealing with that? Is it is a challenge and it's definitely different on my end Yeah, well, like that's the thing about being a piece of crap is that the missus picks up for you Yeah, most definitely most definitely, but you know, sometimes I'm stuck all day. I have I have daycare my own Hers hers is Fluctuate so sometimes she goes in all day. Sometimes it's just noon to four So whenever she's home or whenever she goes to work I got to watch them during the day and then I wind up streaming, you know from eight o'clock So sometimes four in the morning and then I gotta watch when we don't live by any of our parents Like we live our closest siblings are two hours away So we're kind of on a island here on our own You don't want to do any daycare or hire a nanny or anything like that No, I don't think so. I think I think in the grand scheme of being a Gamer, I think the biggest blessing is be able to spend time with him. It's it's really been taxing but I think it's I think it's kind of Levels from that though. I mean, it's a lot you stream a lot and they didn't do the YouTube videos Yeah, well, I got mr. McCullough do my YouTube videos for the most part So that that's yeah, that's helping me At least, you know, I'm like alright if I if I pay for it, I got to put some YouTube videos out Right, so that's definitely helping me for the most part and it's going good though But it's definitely been a different year. It's been it's been tough, but I'm glad we're both handling it pretty well Now one of the reasons I asked you to be on here because I would you had made the comment about The competitive was the worst ever man, and I didn't want to talk on Twitter because it's tough to really get people's Manurisms and their sarcasm and their level of intensity through typing You know, it's just I feel like you it's easier to take it wrong than it is to take it right, you know For the most part with typing you can't see how angrily I'm hitting the keyboard I yeah, yeah for sure like I didn't know and you don't know how serious people are behind it But before we get into that I do want to ask you about the patch and you probably played for I know I watched you play a little bit today. Did is the patch successful? Was it bad? Is it terrible? Like what is your overall opinions on now? I'm sure you voice today, but I would love to hear them Yeah, I like okay, so There's still major flaws with Madden that we both know and see on a daily basis, you know guys acting out there like traffic cones Like it like basically you're guiding one user and ten idiots out there But like overall like the patch if they do the emergency patch they talked about with RPOs and include the the issues of Players freezing or when you try to make routes and stuff, right? Like your players you just can't make them if they fix that if they fix a few the other things They've changed the way some coverages play, but that's something that we can adapt to like you know cover twos and are bumping My guys 30 yards down the field. I used to have touchdowns I know you like the like the 30 yard cloud flats defense and that's shit I used to eat up in trips now in trips when I stripped down the sidelines They bump into the 30 yard cloud flat so I throw an interception and that's pissed me off So that's something that I gotta adjust. I gotta find a new cover to 30 yard beater I guess but Overall like the patch outside of people's like literal like game not playing and people like literally getting destroyed out of solo Challenges right like their games are crashing. They're losing the solo battles. They're there. They're no money spent squads I know I know how big in the solo battles you are. Oh, yeah, and you know money spent but other people are the same way That that just can't happen, right? Oh, yeah, the worst thing that can happen to somebody is losing their game and losing their progress, right? Like say you play like a single-player game and your safe file corrupts. How pissed are you? How much are you gonna play that game going forward? So it's it's the bugs in this patch that are the biggest problem and it's just like it's exactly what happened last October patch Remember that shit where it's all everybody's dropping back balls. Mm-hmm Yeah, so same shit happened they introduced some bugs into this on and hopefully they could fix it soon That's my opinion. How about you? I feel like the bugs have been a problem with the game the whole time You know, I've never had a I never thought the game was terrible in its, you know And it's skeleton so to speak is really just you know, just the The glitchy stuff like the the extra the squiggly lines all over the field Obviously the game crashing is terrible. It really is just like the not the way it plays just the way it works if that makes sense like the way it Just Doesn't seem to function properly as a video game sometimes, you know the glitchy stuff rather than the actual gameplay Is what has always held this game back for the, you know, a month and a half. It's been out You and I like see this game so differently on that aspect like when I yell at the game I yell at the devs when you yell at the game you yell at your opponent I've noticed this watching your stream too. You get you get fucking No, why do you not really blame the devs for a lot of the like in unbound? um I don't know. I normally just yell at my opponent because that's what i'm playing like I don't know and they're they're the ones that choose and and more often than not um I normally get more mad when when they're they're actually popping me a little bit That's that's when you get a little bit more angry with them, but uh, I just think that's more about just The comp competitive side really just like That's the person i'm playing. I mean i'm not playing the devs. I don't really You know, and I'm always you know, what's that? Go ahead I don't want to cut you off No, I'm just I've never been The devs aren't the reason i'm losing or giving up first downs, you know I mean I feel like I've always been an accountable person for the most part Like I'd need to do it on my own, you know, it's not anybody else's fault but my own I normally just yell at my opponent because they're on the other side of the sticks pretty much. That's about it Yeah, but like it's like it's like you're fighting your opponent and the devs at the same time sometimes though And like your opponent's always going to fight you right you don't get in a boxy match You get pissed at them for hitting you in your face Right you get you get pissed at the ref for fucking up and like tripping you like today My dammarino threw a ball 20 yards short and not under pressure of nothing and it got picked off I'm a i'm a fucking y'all dumb my guy's not jumping for fucking picks I'm gonna yell at the devs to do that. It's not my opponent making my players play like shit It's it's clint and it's awful fucking coding. He's out here like oh, yes Uh, let's let's do player ratings on the field you get plus five zone for being able to react to that ball Throwing at the linebacker better, right? He's out there like like circle jerking with nfl players instead of in the fucking like Being an absolute nerd doing like 12 hour days fixing the fucking game, which we truly need in this shit So I feel like clint should be I think we need a nerd doing that clint's not really a nerd. So we need more nerd Yeah, can you be a nerd in the nfl? No, you I don't think it's possible except that colts kicker that I watched you last night with the glass is that guy Yeah, that guy has to be a nerd confirmed I don't think it's possible to be like at least a lineman. Who knows maybe old lineman are kind of smart nerds But uh, I don't think you know, I don't know Who knows? I mean for me, it's just I don't know I feel like they're playing with the same dozen and I yell at my players too on the field I yell at the individual players sometimes. It's you know, it's it's revises fault or shone taylor's fault Or is hain's fault, you know, I you know, I don't know but I just feel like The game is the I sometimes I don't want to say I accept it but You know, it can suck with it during the game. I mean, I my first thought isn't it's clen's fault all the time Sometimes for sure and then another thing about when you get cheated, right? You said damn reno do the ball 20 yards short You know, what the hell can you do about it? You know, that's the best thing about streaming is that everybody sees you get hold like I mean whippedy-doodle for the most part, you know, and it sucks But you know, I feel yeah Yeah, I also see the final scoring bully your ass too. Oh, yeah, I get bullied all the time That's pretty much, you know, that's pretty much what this is about. In fact The more I went on the stream the more dead and boring it is on my on my part for the most part The more that's why people like no money spent because sometimes I get my ship pushed in and probably it's probably about You know, 30% of the time I get my ship pushed in so, you know, what Do you think stream is more popping when you lose it? I'm just in such a foul mood I feel I feel like the stream's in an awful spot. I don't know. I I don't really necessarily look at the chat so much It's how much like I put out there. I don't it feels it's strange that you see the other way Um, I don't know. I feel like Yeah, I definitely feel like they love trolling. I feel like people watch me and then like like when they see me getting popped or they see me getting mad they They kind of brings you know brings a human side the like a robot essentially like all this guy is good He doesn't lose but then when he starts getting popped, it's like, okay, you know, it makes them happy I'm not the only asshole that's yelling and cursing at my players or like you said cursing at the devs I'm not the only person that does that and then I got the sounds to play when the hell I start getting popped And they're playing titanic flutes all the time and some of these assholes are they have the titanic flute queued up I'm telling it is 24 7 because they hit that bitch at the perfect time every time Soon as I don't pick I hear a titanic flute It is it cannot be just rehearsed better than that and that that's what the chat does for the most part I just I do feel like when I lose it's like, okay, this guy's not that fucking good I'm I'm just as good as him, you know, he's really he's not he's human for the most part You know and I think is and I think you almost got to play into it and it sucks Dude, it's gotten to the point where I I do an interception to lose a tournament game mad and I want to say it was last year Yeah, maybe it was I don't remember Chad you guys it was on a run commit and I do interception it happened It was literally like money drive for the game. He ran commit and I do interception. Yeah, it happened and you know They killed me instantly. I'm not taught. It wasn't a week in the game This was like I was like two games away from making the lcq finals or anything like that It was it was actually brutal. It was actually like a terrible play I overthought and they just killed they just drug me instantly And I was and I was I was honestly that was probably one of the Most down I've been in mad and like really actually sad. I cut the stream off instantly and I sat there And then I realized like 10 15 minutes of my sorrow. I realized these assholes are still in my chat They're still here talking and I'm like, bro, these dudes really fuck with me So then I booted back up and just kicked it with and realized like, uh, you know You got to be able to lose. Uh, you got to feel both sides of the loss and the win, you know, so that that was definitely um Definitely a rough time, but I I do feel like losing is You have to lose to be a successful stream. I think at some point I think 10 5 to 10 losing is like ideal Yeah, about 10 losing and you're still one of the best in the world even at that rate You look at just like leaderboards, but how do you not get like I when I start losing? Oh my god I get so fucking complaining and I can hear it. I just I just fucking hate it. I don't know what else to talk about um I don't I don't know. I don't really complain about I more I mean, I don't mean to like Blow my own horn, but at first I don't really lose that often on stream that often I mean no money spent I do but It's not like I have I have kind of a built-in excuse why I'm getting drilled and I still get pissed off But my biggest thing with madden has always been dude. I can lose and just search for the next game You know, I've always felt that way. I've always even when I was playing without streaming even when I was playing, uh You know when I'm streaming I can always just get back on the next game Now I played fancy last night. He fucked me up I was a little salty and I and I won like four games after that But you're still playing them four games smiling, but you're still thinking about that one time I got popped You know an hour ago at that point. That's kind of how I kind of how I work Kind of how I'm wired for the most part, but I I don't I don't know. I just You know, I definitely carried bad losses into the fucking night too. I'm like just forget about it. It's fucking madden But let's get let's give it. Let's get here what we got. I got I got you know Promise foxy about an hour here. So let's let's get to it Count madden. Yeah, you're the host. Why am I sorry? Yeah, well you go do your thing It's it's easier to do this with somebody that knows how to talk, you know, that's a lot easier You know, sometimes you have people I've had every belt winner on the show and sometimes it's a little difficult, you know But uh, yeah, I mean like I said, you made the comment that Competitive or madden or I guess and you clear up is just the tournaments being here Was uh, one of the worst uh things for mutt in general and I I won a broader You know explanation of that for the most part, you know Like all right Not mad. Why did comp madden die in the mid 2010s? Uh, I think first of all, I'll be honest I was I played mad in 08 and mad on 9 pretty comp, you know Going all the tournaments and everything between that I definitely had like I was like I don't know how these kids do it when they're like 21 to 26 playing madden like that's all they do I really was kind of playing but I wasn't like locked in like I was, you know now that I'm older guys, so Uh, I I want to say virgin gaming was really popping Then they had a big A big like fight kind of in one of the events and stuff and it kind of died down in virgin And and honestly, I don't know what happened to the madden challenge. I don't I honestly don't have answers What happened to it for the most part, uh, I don't know I I I think it was low viewership, right when they're back on on regs and stuff and Here's the thing. It's like if comp madden stayed in regs. I've I got no problem at all I it's perfectly fine. Like comp mad the best thing about comp madden and why I think it's it's great Is the fact that it's given you and so many other people that just play madden Money to pursue that passion. All right. That's that's great. And I think that's awesome that ea What's that money out there that people can live off it, right? Like, you know, you got a bunch of like pro professional streamers that don't have to oh not streamer Sorry players that don't have to stream and they get that all right now That would have been great and if it stayed in regs and you got balanced regs around it play your squad It's gonna know when they when Uh ea forced y'all into mutt. There was a lot of negative talk. They hate him I didn't want to come into mutt. They liked regs. They want to stay in regs I was like, please stay in regs. Like we're the mutt. We're doing okay here, right? We're just living our own world. It was such an underground like it wasn't like the biggest part of mad at the time But now it easily has become Um, so like then it came into mutt and we see so many changes Too mutt over the years due to it right due to competitive tournaments and And the thing is like would competitive madden have the viewership it would have right now if it weren't for ultimate to Now probably not I think it helps You know, I think so but at the same time, you know, I think and that most of the man players Still to play regs, you know, or at least there's a huge chunk of people that play mad and that watch football That just play regs and don't really get into mutt, you know, so Uh, I think I think mutt helps it because it gets the same viewership that youtube and everything else gets obviously But I do think there's a huge crowd of people that just still play regs For the most part and I think I think it's it's mutt is also a plus I honestly think there should be I think this going all to mutt was a little wild I did think there was always a place for that regs tournament. No matter where it is No matter what part of the year it is I always think there's a place for that at least one of them So the going all the mutt was it's kind of wild this year But I definitely think it it helps and in the grand scheme I think mutt helps giving away the mutt cards people being able to watch the mutt cards and talk about them I think helps in the grand scheme of things Oh outside of you know giving money to community members, what has competitive benefited ultimate to you How has it benefited and you know this these are the questions and These are the questions that ea's budget asks the competitive team, right? What have you done for us? You know is viewership good enough to keep putting out millions of dollars for this competitive thing I don't know What what has it done? It's brought. I don't know if it's brought more players I mean, that's honestly a great question. What has competitive done for the mutt community? You know how many uh, how many players like I didn't I don't look at those leaderboards or whatever How many players actually played in this like these these? Qualifying for this Thanksgiving tournament. How many people have I would probably tell you Guess guess how many people played No more than a thousand I don't think you know, how do we think I don't know like how many you guys do you think? 2300 5k people played Damn, and I made top 20 in the first in one day. I might be go to Yeah, a thousand people played Um a competitive game, right like at least one. Okay. I don't know how many how many played multiple games Whatever you guys whatever doesn't matter That's out of like the millions and millions and millions of of cops. They sell right about like six million a year in madden, right? so five thousand people is is their entire Million dollar plus prize pool plus and I think this is actually even more money that EA puts in is is the uh What what the hell you call it the organization around the tournament, right to pay our g salary and benefits They pay they pay matt mark how and whoever else is is doing comp stuff. They got that studio They got all that stuff. They got all this focused around comp and like in organizing big events You know this with your tournament. It's not easy, right? Like with your you know bot wars that you do. Yeah Yeah, so like that is a ton of organizational effort and in uh money That is going into comp madden and into mud that that maybe maybe and i'm not saying it would go all back into gameplay It would all go back into you know franchise ultimate team other portions of the game, but it does feel like the organizational uh Focus of of madden is kind of slanted a little bit and it doesn't help the overall product that there is so much Try effort there and and as a comparison look at what rockets has done with mud that gg this year, right? Last year he's been running mud head forever and then like I think even said himself I mean there was just so much effort around the competitive tournaments that he put on the weekly basis on those fridays Like he wasn't really able to update the site as much now that he's kind of off of mud head and he's doing that gg full time Do do I mean you probably know that site is significantly better than mud head? Absolutely I mean, I was using the other day. It's just to make a video about I didn't know you could even compare people's abilities And what do they get and what do they don't get? I mean definitely has been been a lot better for sure You know, I mean that's yeah, I just feel like the resource thing is like I mean, that's that's an ea problem. You know, I think I mean Essentially you could talk about anything that's anything else other than mutt is taking resources away from mutt You know, I could come out here and say, you know franchise is taking resources away from competitive You know what I'm saying? I could say the yard or or the other dumb ass modes They have or taken away from from mutt or they're taking away from that needs to be in a prize pool You know, that's the thing Comp is not the number one issue at ea My my point was that it has hurt the game mode of mutt and and uh, it's probably not great as an organization for MLB to go the same way But face of the franchise is an awful fucking game mode. That's the first thing that needs to be cut Right, but a competitive man in tournaments like probably On the things that need to go like like third or fourth that that needs to be scaled back like and so In the ea is like they got other problems So like when I say competitive and the issues that it brought and the game balance issues like You know how draft champions used to be fun and then they introduced the pay to win that they became like It became the competitive madden. They brought an elo and so like these things have warped around competitive madden But like again ea is like, you know, no money spent hate and some and they're the absolute Just hatred of their player base is the number one thing that's a problem but competitive itself has drawn a lot of effort and Like how what what's the last time? Muts has got any sort of like innovative thing, right? We got stats on cards this year, right? Half-time adjustments. Where the hell are those they didn't work I was excited about stats super pumped about stats from playing so much MLB I was I can't wait to see how many touchdowns I throw and then they don't work at all You're right Like we remember we talked about this. I had a conversation with somebody This week about what was the promotion of madden this year? What was their new feature? What was it? Half-time adjustments Madden the whole the whole game. What was the new feature? shaky cam on home field advantage Homefield the momentum that was it momentum I mean, that's I mean looking at it Kind of a L grand scheme of things momentum was kind of a L Huge fucking L and and the issue like there's so many things quality of life features that they should be focusing on like Custom audible saving game to game formation subs all so many things that it just feels like it blows my mind that they can't do them And they do like fucking shaking up a stadium like college football And they bring in a mutt as like a big selling feature of it like Like they got to know we're not stupid, right? Yeah, I mean listen, I still have squealy lines. I hope this patch Uh got our squealy lines out of here, but you know, I still had them as of three days ago. So we'll see Yeah But like, you know my point was what's that? I don't want to get you out good No, I just I I feel like I I feel like there's no downside of having the competitive field, you know, I don't think there's a downside that You know, I I listen I played mutt Exclusively pretty much Madden 16 before they Madden 16 was the year They were like we're having a man's championship series It's gonna start on draft champions in the middle of the year And I played the hell out of mutt and I'll tell you mutt was some sweaty fuckers on mutt It was and it would be no matter what even if the comp dudes weren't there It was sweaty as hell and uh, you know, they introduced mutt And I honestly don't think there's a downside of having having the competitive people play mutt. I really don't uh You know, I mean Okay, so the the downside of competitive and mutt is some of the changes that made to the game mode, right Don't complain a few years ago when comp was in Madden ultimate team and salary cap or whatever it was He complained on twitter about the you know people blocking him So they don't have to match up like back then do you know how many like you you you understand how many like, you know Field goal block glitches disconnect glitches desync glitches that were in the game So like if you got hit with somebody you blocked them you didn't have to match up with him again Joke went on this like rampage of adding mark hop adding everybody about this that he's getting blocked He can't go up in the leaderboards because of it and they end up taking that feature out So and then I asked mark how on twitter. I'm like, okay, because he's put out something saying all right We're monitoring the online Ladders for this for people doing this field goal block glitch and then I tweeted I'm like, well, what about the rest of us? And he's like Sorry is essentially I think what he said basically it's we're not gonna we're not gonna we're not gonna fuck about you So that's like the direct thing where we used to be able to say hey Your piece of shit Let me block you so I don't have to match up with your piece of shittness again And that got taken away from more of the the casual guys right like And I get it from a comp one of you that was an awful fucking thing that shouldn't happen And you know it is what it is but like from the majority of the player base that hurt us Yeah, I mean I see I look at it as I mean I first of all it's bad both ways if you could block people Then it's shitty for competitive ladders because I can block all the good people and play shitters all day So it's bad for the competitive thing if you could just block people and just play shitty people That's just bad joke was right. You shouldn't be able to just block people and not play them But at the same time, I mean you're right too. I think it's just a bad bad situation I've always felt I don't know. Maybe this is the older me I'm I'm 34 this was like if someone's glitching and cheating this shit out of me like god bless him, dude I don't really get too mad about that shit, you know because like that's like crab stuff to do I just brush off the crabs at this point But I will tell you in my prime of gaming when I was when I was a super Gamer or whatever it would piss me off for sure and it would grind my gear So I definitely understand what it's like, but now at this point in my life I just that stuff doesn't bother me and that that was one year, you know, so you know what I'm saying so I need I need to see the other examples because I mean I don't like I said you had a couple. I remember you talked about the effects on the actual gameplay Yeah, and so so W. I was I was in your stream. I don't know this is a few weeks ago But you admitted back in the day you used to dc people offline too back in like the old Oh, yeah, the safety you used to go get a safety. Yeah, you used to try it. Hell. Yeah Sometimes you got to get people out of there when it you know, it is bro. It is a battlefield in gaming Let me tell you something. There's a battlefield Gears of war are you sometimes when you're getting pops you got to start crab walking in Gears of War That's how it works. Sometimes you got to jump out of the mapping Gears of War guys If you never cheated that did you really have fun playing video games in your lifetime? I'm just being honest. I'm just being honest. Like you got to try Shit, I wasn't the guy look at doing this shit every game to move up the leaderboard It's like I wasn't that guy, but shit sometimes somebody got a guy. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes the guy get him out of there So I'm necessarily like, uh, uh, I don't love your your opinion on the on the whole Whether it's it's cool or not to block people for desinking but Get what you're you're saying when you go down get them out of there so you can get the w's All right, so What about like all right cop in general? Let's let's flash back to madden 20 and the over balance like the overpowered run game and stuff Adam 20 was like the essential Uh, like I heard this from from ea People at ea He said because of the amount of of comp players and players themselves complaining about patches in the game and And changing people's offenses so they have to adapt which in my mind blows my my mind right like that that that's It sends blows my mind because comp players should be the best at adapting in the game to any changes, right? You guys like you're you're that's what you do. You put all the time like so if like the meta's set Ea fucks up the meta. Who's going to be best? Quickest it's the comp players over the the rest of the shitters and weak and lego or whoever whoever can adjust the best the best comp player Yeah, so Anyways and madden 20 they had heard the the the feedback and they said and the feedback said don't patch your game Don't change your game. Just leave it as it is. Let us adjust to it Let it and so madden 20 with this overpowered run game we saw from day one They adjusted obviously, you know, that was the first year of a lot of abilities. They adjusted tilman They adjusted the arm bar early on they didn't make some changes to abilities and whatnot that we saw through the year But overall they left stretch as it is they left dive as it is They left our our dumbasses on the pursuit angles as they were because they didn't want to quote unquote Overtune their game so madden 20 just bet was just a shitfest all year long And it stayed that way because they listened to the comp saying don't adjust your game. Oh, so I what how do you know they listen to the comp for you just that's just an assumption That's that's that's not an assumption. That's from internal ea I don't I don't know. I don't think anybody was cool with I don't think anybody was cool with the way man 20 I don't know if we're gonna agree that man 20 was the worst man European in your opinion nobody liked it But the next year joke came out firing about gunslinger and how passing is too powerful First of all, I feel like I feel like you're equating the competitive scene the joke I feel like joke is like when you think about when you when you have a bad dream voice and problem No, I feel like I feel like when you have a bad dream about competitive people is jokes face in the dream like that He represents competitive men to you as joke now joke is an extremist I mean and and I mean we all know that it's like most of stuff He's extreme to the point where it's like everything he says you got to take with a grain of salt Like it's he's the boy that cried wolf at this point. The promise ea doesn't take him like that Not because I don't know. I don't know how they take him. I don't control how they take it You understand, but he really is the boy that cries wolf. I'll be honest. He's got a new girlfriend and he's got a dog Right. So this year. He's really shut the fuck. I'll be honest. You could tell a man that's getting laid consistently He has I'm telling you and I when we talk about this. I'm like joke bro. You didn't change this year, bro And he about to turn 32. I'm telling you he has changed so much for real. He has not been the one bitchin He played madder and is what do you say 20 to 26? Yes the the scum years The scum years for real your 20s. That's when you got to do the majority of your gaming Be honest, you know, so but now for real. I mean, but yeah He has definitely been the boy that cries wolf for the competitive scene for the entire mcs Circuit for the most part. Yeah other other things like other like if you've never seen any comp player complaining about a glitch being patched or whatever Absolutely, you know, I they always I don't know I think jokes set the precedent to complain enough to get so something gets patched You know where I I guess it works. I don't know I don't uh, you know, there's I said you you get You know when you're so in in trail with this this competitive scene you see the guys you just brush away You know like earl and joke and stuff people that complain about everything, you know, I mean It's like okay, but then when someone else talks, uh, that normally doesn't complain You got to take that a little more seriously for honestly for me, uh I don't know. I don't I don't care about ap changes. I don't think that's that's that's that big a deal You know, I don't know why that's a bad bad thing ever, you know, I don't know Why how that can hurt the game for mutt people ap Yeah, a large a large discussion, but like ap is a very big balancing mechanism they use now Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't know how I don't know He's there kind of big But but I don't know how it how it affects. I don't know how Listen, I don't know how it really affects anything like it makes you change your team a little bit But it really doesn't like how can it make that big an effect? You know, I just don't understand. What's the Like like like bench press in one step like bench press going from one to three changed a lot of how we played the game Yeah, because you couldn't do that anymore. But like you said, how do you not see how that changed the game? Like I'm just saying like what's the What's the downside? I don't know like It obviously changes the game They can completely take something out of the you know out of the realm of usable if that makes sense Like you can't use that anymore because it's too much ap now. You can't use it. So You know, what's the like you got to change up what you got to do like Essentially I was a bench press guy. I was a bench press one step. I'm putting you in the ground I thought people sucked against it. I did and I was very very very good against it passing So I love that right so personally I was like damn this kind of screwed me I can't even do this anymore I was really good against it and it was really easy to play defense Super easy because it was really hard to pass against and if the you know, it was a pain in the ass of your passing So for me, I loved it personally But when it changed it like what am I like so so now I'm getting your effect to where damn the ap changes Kind of fucked my whole game up. I got to switch it up, right? And I just switched it up and played a different way Yeah, but like that's that essentially is it's game balance and changes around it and like how you like it cost you Then I know me and you open packs So it doesn't really matter to us But people that don't lose their training value from going back and forth and I get it like you don't give a Shit about them you constantly shit on people That don't open packs and say hey if you want to become you got to spend $2,000 and I know It's it's your your theory, but like Right are the people out there that maybe aren't into it as much as us I mean we can try and put ourselves into their shoes and stuff like that And maybe their size is too small because we got big feet, but I Feel like that does Kind of affect people when they do ap changes when especially when they delay patches for tournaments Like I got to play on this shitty ass game a little bit longer before they update it because some comp dudes Said hey, I don't want changes before this tournament And and that was a little frustrating and I think they do it a little bit better now where they just like maybe play the comp Turnies on old patches I don't know, uh, but do do they still do they play I'll be honest I mean there's been patches literally the day before tournaments, you know So as soon as you as just the way you think that I bro Before comp complained. Yeah, I mean do that no more. I don't know I feel like I always feel like patches are terribly time for everybody if that makes sense I really do like there's no good way to time a patch really And at the same time at the same time just like you said the competitive guys are supposed to be my I don't care if it's a day before the tournament a week before the tournament As long as everybody has the same time to play on it I that's really all that is fair to me, you know as far as the competitive side, you know You're you're built different not a lot of people like you do Man, I don't know. I just I feel like that's how most comp guys are You know, and that's I don't know that's the point There is no good time for a patch with comp tournaments and and so like why hold the comp tournaments Pull the rest of us back I mean I For the most part agree outside of maybe if it's like a week before the tournament, you know You can put it out any other time, but if it's something emergency, let's go ahead Let's get it done, you know for the most part. I don't think anybody would would disagree with that It was actually I'll tell you this we were madden 18. We're ultimate league This is no lie. We ultimate league madden 18. I don't know if you guys remember there was a Trucking the hell out of air trucking was OP Madden 18 you would do madden 18 It was like stretch dive and we were at the ultimate league before we were in minnesota at the super bowl Then, you know, this is all the money. They spent the flies to minnesota, which was fucking awesome So fuck your gameplay. We were in minnesota. It was awesome. You know for us 8 16 people was great for the rest of y'all deal with the game but Uh, we had a meeting before the game. It's us 16 people in ultimate league We can put a patch out right now. I don't even think it was put the patch out Do you want to play on the patch? That will uh help get rid of air truck and you can't air truck anymore And we had a vote they said do you want to play on it or no? And the vote came back that we didn't want to play on the patch because we were afraid that we didn't know what the Hell else was going to what the hell else was going to happen on the patch So I don't know if that that might have affected when it came out or maybe just when we played on it I don't remember for sure. I want to say it's what we played on I don't remember but they definitely asked the group of people that were there Do you want to play on the current patch or the or what's my call it or the the patch or the current game? They definitely asked us so We'll see so so I guess mad in 18 was when they had us playing on old patches Even though a new patch was out like you had just said Yeah, so I got uh, I guess the final things I gotta go. Um, I got a couple more minutes, but Uh Fortnite you ever play fortnight? Yeah before these kids got way too sweaty and beat the shit out of me Yeah, that's exactly my point with madden. Yeah See what do you see what I'm talking about now? Yeah, but at the same time I'm like a professional man player So I have to like put most of my time into madden if I was a kid playing games and I could choose It might be different You know what I'm saying? Okay Do you do you understand the point of like There's that got into ultimate team A builder ultimate team to collect cards to play online Fine solos that kind of stuff had to have Then it's all all now super sweat. Okay, so and and you're my comparison to that is I'm a guy that played fortnight I wanted to buy the cool skins. I wanted to go out and fucking camp and build a fort and you mean I might get Fucked up, but who cares? I still collected my skins. I still had fun I still played my solos the person that bought the game to collect cards and to build their fucking team and play solos Why do they care if they get into online and every once in a while get the shit kicked out of them? That's not their goal with the game, right? Is their goal with the game? No Their goal is you just said they wanted to collect have fun and play solos, but they don't want to play sweats So what the fuck do they want to do for yourself in their shoes? Okay? I'm happy as fuck. I got my I got my team team I'm happy. I'm playing solos. That's my point. Why do they care if they get their shit kicked in when they play somebody? You kicked out of you in fortnight. Why did you leave fortnight because I'm competitive That's my you understand. I care if I get my shit pushed in. I'm not there to collect cards No, they don't you do you just said they cared about card collecting cards and playing solos What do you not care about winning? Listen? Yeah, of course I care about winning. That's all I care about My point is the motherfucker can't care about everything You can't that's my point. No, no, but it's my point I don't care about winning But no, that's my point. You can't say The casuals that want to collect the cards and have fun and have all that they don't want to get their shit pushed in Well, what do they want to do? Well, that's my point. They want to win Of course they want to win. Who then then then step into the fucking ring and win then win What do you want to just give them you want to give them wins? Just here you go Listen if my goal if my goal was to be competitive before tonight I would have put my all for effort into that bitch It was But I'm a man. This is your job. These people they go to a fucking nine to five. They can't run bunch All day every day Yeah, they're fucking job. Yeah, I'm gonna kick this shit out of them when they match up with me. Yeah I mean that's the world, right? Just like just like anything that's like it's like fucking anything like I'm not I'm listening if I I'm not good as shit in the world except madden and drawing pictures. That's about it, right? But I'm good at that. So shit and and people and everybody has this shit They're good at I'm good at madden So if I play some dude that collects his cards and works at the fucking post office, you damn right I'm gonna put my shit up his ass 1 million percent. That's how the world works and close to him too though Here's the thing. Doug is like the problem with this fucking game is that the compass here Fucking up our shit with blocking people and then they're gonna go and like say. Oh, it's a competitive game Why do you think the casuals are fucking ditching? Why do you think like youtube numbers are are are stalling out like twitch numbers are are are solid But like they're not to other games levels Yeah, I mean listen, I I I I feel like this man If if somebody wants to collect it I feel like you can be a casual and enjoy mutt without giving a fuck whether you win or lose And if and if you say that's not true Then then you're not you're no longer just the guy that cares about cards and collecting cards and shit like that You're no longer that guy. You're a guy that wants to win in madden Okay, so get better or or what the fuck? What are your options? Like if you don't put your all into getting better this shit madden Is people's not even streaming and shit playing literally just playing the game is people's jobs So yeah, you're never going to be able to compete with somebody that takes it that much more serious than you It's just not gonna happen It's that's any field in the in the world Anything in the universe You cannot compete with somebody that takes it that serious and you want to be casual That's that's impossible. Just like fortnight. I was a casual dude hard aiming over my fucking little ramp I'm aiming to somebody did I take the game serious fuck? No, I just got on drank and aimed over aimed over one by one Right, but here comes fucking ninja who does this shit for a living. He's kicking this shit out of me So I said let me go back to the game. I'm good at because you know what? I didn't care that much about fortnight I care that much about madden and if you're a little timmy two shoes cares about winning that much on madden He's going to step up or he's going to take some losses And it's nothing wrong with that if you're casual like you say they are Listen a casual player should have no problem going 500. Why if you're casual quote unquote, right? But what i'm trying to say is look at this from ea's point of view All right, they're going heavy into competitive and and like you said you literally don't play fortnight anymore So these people that are casual aren't playing madden anymore because of that kind of uh, uh, Basically effort around it Hey, you get in lot you get online you play against whatever the meta is that time on offense on defense It's the same thing game after game a lot of times during the end of the year right now Actually, I think the offensive meta is pretty nice right now, but that's off topic But what that's that's the point is like yes You're going to kick the shit out of them because you're really good at dubby and like I said you're built different You're different because you're doing this because you're kicking the shit out of madden But like I'm a wider perspective us as content creators and really you're one of the top content creators on twitch Uh top youtube that kind of stuff and and with that like don't you fear a little bit of the amount of people? Leaving the game because ea keeps pushing comp when so few people are into it right? You said 5,000 people tried for that tournament 5,000 out of the millions that buy this game 5,000 what does comp bring to madden? You you you basically said nothing earlier. You said, I don't know like I The best thing comps done is give you money give people that are competitive at the game that play the game money I I agree and at the same time what you said it takes away is your ability to block people to block your Fillables or glitch your glitch you right? I honestly feel like the comp shit is not the it's not it's not in the top 10 of problems at ea for madden And I feel like yeah, we said it like and honestly if people stop playing It's more because the game is shitty not because competitive shit You know what I'm saying that the point is it ties together? Yeah, and this one like The to me two shoes that's a casual player that's gonna go go 500. This motherfucker was going 500 in madden 16 too All right, it wasn't there's not some great player out there that was beating everybody and since comp showed up All of a sudden he don't want to play no more. You know, I don't I don't know if that's if that's that type of person honestly but you know So basically your biggest argument to comp is that like Don't think it harmed anything I honestly don't I don't think so at all and I think one it's got madden on the espn It's got madden all is I think it's it's got it's definitely put a spotlight on madden It has more so than there was before You know on you know, so I don't think a spotlight on madden at all is is a big deal I don't think there's nothing wrong with it. You know with all that publicity on espn I don't know how much they had to pay for it or whatever. It's not nearly the cultural impact that 0405 was It's not near to what it was. Oh, well, I think it's just a different time that you know People can watch madden 247 now. So I think it's definitely a different time The madden challenge was definitely You know before its time, you know, that was a big deal or for sure But uh, I I do think I do think spotlight any spotlight on the video game is a positive for all of us really You know for the most part, you know And and and for me, I feel like and I don't know if you ever I don't know if this has ever crossed your mind But for me, I I've never given a shit about You know programs or new content. I've never cared about it and I think to myself, man I'm really getting into this content. So maybe I should like start caring about that, you know Play with the new cards. Uh do videos on the new cards, you know boot up when the new cards are available I've never cared about that and I feel like I do myself a disservice By not getting into that more now I don't know if if you would get like care about the competitive stuff more because it is more content for you Or and just like, you know, the new cards are more content for me I think any type of light on the game is an opportunity for for us to get, you know, obviously get more eyes But on top of that, it's just it's good for the game overall. So I honestly don't think The competitive thing is bad and and like I said the spotlight alone I think is a positive and as far as people leave and I think it's more about them not having fun on the game And and you know that that's more about the gameplay than it is about, you know, the players they're playing I think Yeah, and I do agree spotlights on the game are good But there are many ways to get spotlights, right? The best spotlight on the game is to get a high review score, right? It's it was my points I was trying to make is that, you know earlier on I said how much effort they have to put into these tournaments It takes a ton of effort and organizational time To basically put on these things and basically broadcast the ESPN work the deals Work the contracts with them like there's so much that goes into event planning, especially at that level Which are the people that work at the announcers Locate, I know it's it's online now, but back they used to fly people in that kind of stuff That takes a ton of money and organizational like time. So That's my point is like maybe they could take those people that are doing that Stick them on fucking gameplay and then you got more people like actually, you know coding this shit So we don't matter bugs and our players don't fucking freeze when you try to adjust And so like these are the things and and so I feel like We're close on some things but far apart on others like when I when I talked about it being from an ea ea Perspective and a creator perspective yourself, right if the game was better We'd have much more viewers, right? Mut fucking sucks in the last year or two with no innovations No changes because they're busy putting on these fucking tournaments in mut because they sent so many people out like Rg was one of the best gameplay guys. He's the guy who thought up a fucking zone drops Rg is now the communication guy for comp We lost one of our best ones at the gameplay team and now he's over fucking doing comp stuff So like yeah, I'm a little bit salty that this this this focus has taken off of like the actual internal product And I you know, that's my whole point In but at the end of the day This is a billion dollar company, right? They can hire some more people, right? I mean, I I feel like we have this image that there's 40 people and now they had 30 people Waking up working on the gameplay, but they just put eight people eight of those 30 into competitive You know, I essentially that's your argument in a in a nutshell, right? Like they put too many of their resources into these tournaments And it's only so much budget that madden gets they bring in Half a billion dollars a year and madden will say A lot of that goes into they buy back stocks two billion dollars Every every other year right two billion dollars of our cash Just goes into ea buying ea stock because they like to manipulate the stock price because andrew wilson needs a new g5 jet every year Okay, oh with that said like so there's only so much budget to have right There's only so much of the pie to go around That's what i'm talking about Yeah, I mean listen, all right You for me it would be a stronger argument if there weren't shittier aspects of the game That that could be taken out before the tournaments and and You gotta realize you're talking to somebody that really That the tournaments changed my life 100 and my family's life and everything so for for me This i'm gonna die on this hill, you know because it changed my life and it propelled me to where I am now So for me, it's tough to say get rid of it. It's not good for the game You know because it has brought me pretty much my life now Uh, so it's definitely tough to see that But but honestly until they get rid of the the 15 other modes and whatever that are a waste of time and stuff like that Including you know other games that they put out but you know Whatever they did have been doing with mba live for the last six years You know, I felt like could have all went to madden But for me, uh, I definitely think the yard and you know superstar the franchises and and the face of the franchise Like you mentioned all that stuff definitely comes before tournaments and and for me I am in that niche of Uh, the competitive scene even if it's only 3000 people at most, you know, there wasn't 3000 people playing Uh, so for me, it's tough to to see an angle where it's bad You know for the most part. Yeah, I get you Yeah, good talk and I I do agree like I like I said, there are way bigger problems and competitive, but that's why Said what I said to mills about not spending organizational effort in MLB and that is the strength of it That but not spreading the south's tooth thin because that is that is game bloat face the franchise is game bloat And it's it's it's worthless and and seeing that interview with with uh shone grady today that the executive producer of madden saying Hey, that's that's people's intro. It doesn't look like it's going away and that fucking sucks I'm so I definitely agree with you there But I gotta go any any uh last questions for it. Um what Do you what is like Our ceiling as madden streamers What is your like me because I I I I look every night, you know, I stream every night you probably stream every day I look and it's like is this the ceiling, you know, like what do you what do you vision the ceiling of madden streamers being? If no fucking clue, I don't think it's there's a ceiling to it Like we saw uh, like I don't 2k is a little bit bigger of a scene But you've seen people from the madden community the 2k community 2k community's got like some of the biggest streamers on the on the dang A platform right now and like madden community has spit off of we spit off laser beam Lost and unbound we like the and I know that's youtube, but The general love of madden is there That's why I'm pissed because mutt which which you know had a lot of like Lost and unbound was getting like a half a million views of video if not more million Mutt stuff off like doing like packed packed not wars, but there was doing like guess who's and stuff with td So like there is no ceiling at all I just I Back my brain on a daily weekly as much as I can How the fuck do we break it? Yeah mmg is a great one brock mmg gets half a million to a million views And he's doing like vlog stuff now amazing creator and I isn't twitch there I is youtube And some of it may has to do with youtube came up when like madden was coming up and was like twitch Maybe kind of got you know when more newer games Fortnite came out and twitch is kind of big and that's we're kind of I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think? I Listen, I look at it all the day and it's like damn is this really the height, you know, that's kind of how I feel um I feel like I just I'm putting so much more attention on you know, obviously the youtube and other other I try to post clips on twitter and videos on twitter and tiktoks and everything I try to go to every other platform to try to direct people to To twitch, but uh, I you know I see I I saw the you know the revenue leak and i'm like damn How can we get madden up there? You know because that's you know I feel like this is a field where you always look up no matter where you are You know if you're at the top of you know, we're at the top of the directory madden But I I don't look at just madden people if I just look at madden people i'll be satisfied You know, I look I watch apex streamers all the time. I watch called duty streamers all the time That's who I look up to you know, it's never it's never ending So I just constantly think like how can you know, I get to you know, 2,000 people every time I boot up How can I get the 5,000 people every time I boot up like what you know, what is that next step for the most part? Yeah, I I agree. It's tough. Like what were you on that list? 800 something that was kind of it kind of got me happy. I was like, holy shit Me I was I was 12.25. So yeah, you're like, oh, but it's like damn like I legit have a dream job for real to be one of the top thousand Streamers in the world on twitch like that's a dream job And and I mean, you know, this is a job where you're constantly you never look behind you And as you just always looking forward forward forward like I need more and more and more This is shitty. I'm doing shitty. I feel like that's how I always feel like I just need to do better And to sit there and say I'm one of the top thousand streamers in the universe. Like that's that was pretty cool Honestly, you know, it kind of like, you know, you always need those things to kind of You know, bring you back to earth like you have a dream job. So that's definitely built top 1000 the last seven days 4 million people booted up 4 million people 4 million people and I'm top thousand 4 million stream. I mean, hey, it's pretty dope for sure Definitely I used to be more like At where I was constantly pissed a couple years ago Man after seeing like this shit, I've kind of called it. I'm like Maybe maybe that hunger is gone And maybe I need to get hungry again and and and start fighting and start like picking shit with like quality streamers That way we could draw. I don't know what the hell to do But yeah, I constantly record me and how to get bigger too, but I I no longer really feel the the hate and the need to The claw my way up like I used to no, but I do think I mean Like I said, like we are the top of the man director You know more stuff we do together to only help honestly for real and that's why I wanted to talk to you I didn't want to go back and forth on twitter because that's just terrible for real Yeah, this is way better than twitter. Twitter's not a real place. That shit doesn't matter It's not it's absolutely a jungle. It's actually a jungle It's a jungle with it's a jungle with like too many police now. That's what it is It's a jungle with like all police half the people in the jungle and another half I'm gonna get into that. No, not for me, but uh, that maybe maybe next time But I gotta go though. Hey, I appreciate dubby for having me on. Absolutely. I appreciate you come and keep grinding, buddy Everybody's subbed the chat now to dubby. All right. Take it easy dude. All right, buddy There it is the fox man the legend All right, listen I will die on the hill that timmy two shoes can collect cards and be okay with going 500, right? You