 Did you know that there are over 2,200 known religions in the world? We are all born into one belief, religion, or faith, which influences how we see the world and everything and everyone in it, including ourselves. Do our beliefs divide and separate us, or do they bring us together in greater harmony? When you look up with awe on a star-filled night, do you ask who or what created all of this? Have you ever had a profound or deeply challenging experience in your life that changed your beliefs at the core of your being? Enlightened Pathways takes us on a journey of discovery to understand just how spiritual transformational experiences impact our lives and the world around us. Join us now as we deeply explore all that nourishes, heals, and inspires us. Welcome to Enlightened Pathways. My name is Robert Quebec, and I am your host for today's spiritual journey. Our special guest today is Henry Jampolsky. I became fascinated with Henry's passion for his spiritual practice and thirst for greater knowledge and awareness. Many years ago, when we first met in about 2017, I think it was at a business networking event in Warrington, Pennsylvania, and we quickly became colleagues and friends. Henry's spiritual journey even took him to the highest pass, a treacherous and arduous motorcycle journey through the Himalayas that awakened his spirit in profound ways. And Henry is an author, a mediator, educator, TEDx speaker, and who serves as the Assistant Director for Education, Outreach, and Conflict Resolution at Virginia Tech's Office for Equity and Accessibility. Henry is also a master instructor of Satva Yoga, having studied in Rishikesh, India, which is a foundational inspiration for his new and best-selling book, Dissolving Conflict from Within. So please help me welcome Henry Jampolsky. Thank you so much, Robert. It's such a pleasure to be here and to connect with you, reconnect with you, and of course, to connect with your listeners and viewers. And thanks for making time for us today, too. Can you briefly tell us where you grew up and what religion or belief system or faith that you're born into and what impact that had on your early life as you recall it? So I was born and grew up and spent my most perhaps formative years in Ukraine. And I was born Jewish. Though my experience of being Jewish was not religious necessarily, but actually being Jewish in Ukraine was more of an ethnicity. And at the time when I was growing up, which was in the 80s and 1990s, there was a great deal of discrimination towards Jews. And so for me, from a very early age, this was something that was othering me and in many ways was closing off many opportunities that were available to me. So I did not really have much of a religious practice growing up, but just being Jewish and that being considered at that time a so-called less desirable ethnicity and something in many ways that you were defined by in many ways define my early years. Now, when I came to the United States in 1994, we actually came as Jewish refugees to escape anti-Semitism then prevalent in Ukraine. For some time, I did become more religious going to the synagogue and connecting, because for the first time in my life, for me and my parents and my members of my family, we could practice this religion unimpeded and that was very meaningful. And so for a while, I became more religious and attended services. And when I was 18, I went to Israel. And if we're coming back from Israel for a while, I felt even more connected to Judaism and being Jewish as a religion. Though it's time progressed, I moved away from that. And what was it that you think caused you to move away from that? It was a... I don't think there was a single event that caused me to move away. For me, it was more questioning. I grew up with a questioning mind. And the more I was observing life and connecting and growing up, the less I felt connected with something that was written in a book many thousands of years ago and something that very often I found to be inconsistent and something that seemed way too binary to me. And so I slowly started moving away from it. Then I met my wife and when we met, even though she also was Jewish, but she was not practicing at all, we also fairly quickly and at a fairly young age, began exploring spirituality versus religion. And we felt much more connected with spirituality than with any particular religion. And then, of course, eventually I ended up in India and that in many ways turned all of my... everything that I thought was up became down and everything that I thought was down became up. And that really transformed how I see myself, how I see the world and what it is that encompasses my spiritual practice. And I really love how you explained that, Henry. Thank you. And as you know, I have been to Israel many times, Palestinian, Lebanese background, lots of family there and being in Jerusalem and Nazareth and what have you. By the time I went there as an adult, you know, I also had left my religious upbringing as it were and I was much more fascinated with the components of it. So, and like you, it sounds I started to look for spiritual common denominators across a number of these practices because, you know, one religion made me feel part of it. And at the same time, another felt made me feel out of it. And this practice allowed me to do this, but then it didn't allow me to do that. And I don't know, I find myself seeking more flexibility in my life, which religions do provide. In a lot of ways, it just wasn't something that connected with me. I'm very interested though, can you talk more about your experience going to India and how things that were up became upside down as a word? Sure. So first, let me let me tell you where I was as a person when I went to India. You know, I was coming here as a refugee, coming here as an immigrant. My family had to go through a lot. It was very challenging, but in speaking English, we had to really advocate for ourselves and did not have the skills to do so. So I thought if I become a lawyer, I would be able to be the voice for people like my parents, for immigrants and other people who did not have a whole lot of power. So that's what I did. I became a lawyer. It was very successful at it. I did a lot of civil rights work and other types of key internal, the other types of cases where I represented people who are mostly poor and many were immigrants and many did not have much of a voice in American courts. And the more I did that, the more disillusioned I became. And the more clear it became to me that I was not providing the voice for the people. But in fact, creating more and more separation, creating more and more conflict. And I was beginning to become very concerned about what this work was bringing out in me, that it was bringing out the worst in me, what it was bringing out in my clients, and what it was bringing out in other people that I came across. And this is when in seven to eight years into my legal career, I felt really lost. I was very successful at it. I invested a lot of time, money, energy to become a lawyer. And yet this work was not fulfilling for me. And I wanted something different. I wanted something different in life. And this is when motorcycles entered into my life. And I really was just looking for a passion. I really was just looking for a passion and just something to be thrilled about because I wasn't at the time. And so I started riding motorcycles. And this was not something that was easy for me. And then one day, I just was not feeling well. I felt down. And I was just playing on Amazon. And I come across this movie called The Highest Bass. And this is a film about a young Indian mystic who takes a group of westerners on a motorcycle journey across the Himalayas. And when I saw this film, I was just blown away. And I said to my wife, you know, I got to meet this guy. I got to meet this guy. He's crazy. I got to meet him. And so we looked him up and he was actually teaching a workshop in Virginia. And we were in Pennsylvania within driving distance. So we went and spent some time with him. And, you know, I've never encountered a being like that. I've never encountered a being who was so innocent. One moment and could be so serious and profound the next. And did this so effortlessly. And, you know, when Anand who became my dear friend, my teacher saw me, you know, first thing he kind of burst into you, one of his just infectious laughter. And he said to me, you got to come to India. And then maybe you just won't be a series, you know. And I never thought that I would go to India. Of course, I never felt a particular connection with India as opposed to any other country in the world. But after meeting Anand, I felt very driven to go. And so a few months later, we took I took a month off from work, and I fully expected my work to tell me to take the rest of my life off, which I ended up doing later. But at that time, I wasn't ready to make the move. But my work was very, very supportive. And we ended up in India. And I can tell you the biggest difference and the biggest lesson as to what India brought for me and being there. And especially in terms of any sort of spiritual practice, you know, there are spiritual traditions that tell us to look up. There are spiritual traditions that tell us to look down to look into the earth. And here for the first time, I got connected with a spiritual tradition that told me to look within. And told me that the answers that I was seeking are not going to be found in a book. They're not going to be found in some building. They're not going to be found through a particular ritual. That until and unless I was willing to go within and sit with the unpleasant and sit with the ugly and experience the full range of emotions and experiences. Nothing was going to happen. Nothing was going to happen. And then something else that became very, very clear to me was actually it's not about any kind of set of beliefs. You know, Robert, I know you have some experience in chocolate. So I'll ask you, do you believe in chocolate? I believe in chocolate. Well, but let me, let me maybe correct you a little bit. You actually don't need to believe in chocolate because you know chocolate, right? I know you've been a chocolate chef. Yeah, you know chocolate, right? I know chocolate. Yeah. Right. You know chocolate. So you don't need to believe in chocolate. This is something you know. This is something you've experienced. So when we say I believe in this or I believe in that, whatever it is, we are talking about something that we have not experienced because once we experience something and we know it, we don't need to believe in it. And so fundamentally what also became very, very clear to me is, you know, up to that point, my exposure to Judaism and other Judeo-Christian concepts was all in form of the belief. But it was when I came to India and by the way, I want to make it clear, going to India was not about connecting with any particular religious tradition. You know, even though now probably many of the Hindu practices are what I connect the closest with, I would not consider myself a Hindu or Buddhist or really anyone else because this is not to me about kind of labeling myself and naming and you know, I am this and not that. But fundamentally, fundamentally the teachings that I came in contact in India opened my eyes to something, to this and it was to experience, it's not about believing in divine or anything else, it's about experiencing it. It's about experiencing. And the only way to truly experience it is not to look somewhere out there, it's not even to look at the highest fast in the Himalayas, I tried. It's to go within. It's to go within. And as we start going within, as we start going within, some very, very powerful things begin to happen. And these powerful, the most powerful things is naturally we start to expand. And I don't, I don't mean, you know, in terms of size, I mean, our perception begins to expand. If you look actually at the description of enlightenment from masters like the Buddha and others, what they're describing, what they're describing is the experience where all of a sudden they couldn't or sometimes it's not all of a sudden, but they cannot tell anymore where they end and another being, another person begins. And so as we go more inward, as we go more inward, naturally our perception, our awareness begins to expand. And naturally we start becoming more inclusive. What does it mean to be inclusive? Inclusive means that I start actually perceiving and experiencing you as part of me. Now, when I start perceiving and experiencing you and anyone else and all the other beings as part of me, the integral part of me. So my idea of me expands. But then does anyone need to tell me not to kill you, not to harm you, not to do all these things, you know, so many religions became these manuals, right? All the things not to do, all the things you're not to do. But the moment you experience another being as truly part of you, all that falls away. Now, you don't need, you don't need these rules, you don't need these regulations. Because then for me to do harm to you becomes as insane as for my arm to stab my leg. Of course, if you take my arm and my leg, they look different, they function differently. So it's not that we are the same. And it's not that we forget about the differences. But if we see ourselves as part of the ocean, and then as ocean, the idea that I can harm you, the idea that you're different from me, the idea that you're other, other than me, drops. And then the violence drops. And that description that you just gave, I resonate with so much in the perspective of being able to experience through various forms of my own meditative practices and experiencing where that line doesn't exist between perceiving myself as one thing and perceiving spirit or awareness or consciousness as something else. Being able to look at a whole as opposed to separate. Yeah. And see, these ideas, if we look at many of the religious traditions, and of course, you know, religion can provide religion can provide a lot of solace, religion can can provide a man solace. There can be a sense of community. There can be, you know, immense strength in some of the rituals that can inspire us, for sure. But while religion can be a solace, it is not a solution. And there is a big difference in that because fundamentally many religious traditions in the world perpetrate three very dangerous beliefs. And these are beliefs because they're not based on experiences, but beliefs that become so deeply ingrained in everything that we do that they inform how we are. So one belief that we started to talk about is this idea of separation, right? That there is you and me, and that we are separate, and that somewhere out there, up there, up there, or down there, there is a God who is also separate from us, right? So this comes an idea of separation, and that, you know, if you are identified as this person, and you fold your hands in a particular way as you pray, well, you cannot be in the same room with someone who folds their hands a little bit differently. So this idea of separation, right? The second idea is that many religions, or at least what people take from that, right? Because that's not necessarily what the origins of the teaching start. That's not necessarily at all what the origins of the teaching start, but kind of the dogmatic interpretation is a idea of separation. B is that we start identifying with our accumulations. So this body is an accumulation, right? This mind is an accumulation. Everything really we're sharing is an accumulation. So while it is Indian mystic satguru often teaches, while it is ours, it is not us. But we confuse that. We confuse that all the time with what is ours and what is us. And that results in immense pain. That results in immense pain because we're constantly looking for solution somewhere out there. Yet the most we can find out there is maybe some solace, but never a solution. The final belief that in my view is very dangerous is that our lives are both infinite and transitory. Meaning that we're here just kind of passing through on some way to a better place. And so in a way what happens here and what we do here is just preparation for something else. So it's kind of like the rehearsal and it doesn't matter so much. And what that results in, right, is lives where, you know, in reality, and I think you and I are both now entering the age where, or perhaps enter the age where life lies, you know, we realize we're not here for that long. And, you know, you blink a blink of an eye, poof, and 10 years are gone. Where have they gone? And where have they gone? And then you look and, you know, you say, we have limited time left. But we're living as though we have unlimited time, right? So this is where we're spending all this time scrolling and doing all this other nonsense that we do while life is sticking away. And then we feel disconnected from this very essence of life, right? Because life is not something that we're going to learn how to do in a book, or some coach is going to teach us. Life is something that we have to experience. And for me, you know, I moved away from Judaism, I moved away from Western based and Judeo-Christian based religious practices. Because fundamentally I saw the focus here was on these three beliefs that I saw not only not corresponding with my experience, but also being very harmful and inherently being very violent. And yeah, so let me ask you a question that keeps coming to my mind in the few minutes we have left here is the journey that you've been on to actually allow you to come to these conclusions where there are other specific sources that you were able to compile this information from. Or a lot of it sounds like a lot of it's just been internal discovery through that internal connection. Can you explore that just for a minute with us? Well, sure, there were other sources. There was my teacher, you know, Anand Moroch and there were many, many other teachers. You know, of course, there are books and spiritual books, though, if we look at the yoga tradition, I purposely don't call it Hindu tradition because, you know, Hinduism kind of evolved from that and also has its dogmatic elements. But, you know, one of the teachings, for example, the yoga sutras by Patanjali, it's a tax that predates Christianity by, I believe, 3000 years. And it's a series of 200 incomplete sentences, incomplete sentences. And yet, each sentence, each incomplete phrase, you know, their partial sentences, to me had a deep deeply profound immense meaning. So, for example, the first yoga sutra, now yoga, now yoga, right? It's very easy to dismiss this. It's very easy to dismiss this to say, well, okay, now he's going to talk about yoga. Except that's not what he's saying. There's a deep purpose behind it because if we want to experience life, it can only happen now. And yoga at that time did not mean, you know, a series of stretches that you do or something that you do to make you feel better. Yoga meant unity. So if you want to experience unity with life, meaning you want to be one with life, that can only happen now. It's not tomorrow. It's not yesterday. And that can only happen through experience. It's not through by reading a book. So it immediately, even through this one sentence, there is an immediate invitation to go within. Another example I can give you is Bhagavad Gita. You know, Bhagavad Gita, of course, is an ancient yogic text that describes kind of one of these epic dialogues between Arjuna, the general and Krishna. And it's a yogic text about love. So when you say yogic text, you would think, okay, well, probably the teaching is going to be make love, not war, right? That's not at all what they're saying. So Arjuna is this warrior who's about to go to war actually with his cousins. That's kind of how the ancient India worked. And he kind of says, eh, I don't want to do this. I don't feel like it. And Krishna, which is an embodiment of the, who's the embodiment of the divine, says to him, your job is to be a warrior. Stop complaining. Your job is to be a warrior. He doesn't tell him your, you know, make love, not war. No, he says your job is to be a warrior. You need to do your job. But then he says something very, very profound. And he says, establish yourself in yoga. Establish yourself in yoga and then act from there. So go within first. Go within first. Establish that stability and then act from there and then take the appropriate action from there. And then if you're established within that action, it's not going to be dogmatic. You're going to know what to do. It's not going to be driven by this set of beliefs or that set of beliefs of what this person said on this TV channel or what that person said on this, on that TV channel. And so fundamentally, this became my spiritual practice going within, going within, going within. And you know, a very Western idea of meditation and mindfulness and yoga is we do this to feel better. But the invitation that I hope to extend to your listeners, your viewers, is to consider switching, to consider switching from doing this to feel better, to doing this to get better at feeling, to doing this to get better at feeling so that we become more sensitive to ourselves and what is happening within us. But more importantly, so that we become more sensitive to life because everything is life, us included. And if we're not something that a coach can command and teach us how to do, unless we are sensitive to this, unless we're really experiencing it, we're not really living. Yeah, thank you so much, Henry. Very much. Thank you. And that's a great place to end our conversation today. And we could talk a lot longer on this. And your depth of knowledge is constantly fascinating to me. And I thank you so much for your time. Again, Henry MPolsky here now, the bestselling author of his dissolving conflict from within. If you'd like more information about Henry and his workshops, his books, you can visit www.livingpeaceinstitute.com. Again, thank you, Henry, for your time today. And just a few closing remarks and a shout out to today's executive producer and sponsor, Bridge to Heaven Healing and Lipin Lizards, which is the premier source for healing crystals and readings with four locations. You can visit www.lipinlizards.biz for more information. Also, a big thanks to our co-executive producer, Dr. Anna Cabeca. Visit drannacabeca.com for more information. Also, if you would like to get more information about this show, please visit www.deepbeing.org. Thank you for watching Enlightened Pathways and spending your valuable time with us today. Until next time, play, have fun, be happy.