 Welcome to today's interactive web chat in honor of Pride Month, a month celebrating the contributions and resilience of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex community in the United States and around the world. This conversation feels even more important today after the tragedy at a dance club in Orlando. Our thoughts are with those in Florida and around the world who are grieving. The theme of this discussion is using policy, advocacy, and storytelling to advance LGBTI rights. And this is the first of two live web chats we'll be hosting today here at the US Department of State in Washington, DC. I'm Mark Bromley, a human rights lawyer and the chair of the Council for Global Equality, a civil society coalition that promotes equality and opportunity for LGBTI individuals globally. I'll be your moderator today. This is an important time to have a conversation on international LGBTI rights. While there has been a lot of progress in recent years, enormous challenges persist, particularly related to hate crime prevention and anti-discrimination. One way to address these problems is to create a forum for dialogue, such as this, to encourage open discussion about these topics. Here to answer your questions are Randy Berry, special envoy for the human rights of LGBTI persons at the US Department of State, human rights activist Judy Shepard, and Emmy Award-winning filmmaker and director of the Matt Shepard as a friend of mine documentary, Michelle Hasway. We are also joined by 38 viewing groups representing every region of the world, including one at the US Consulate in Mumbai, India, who we will introduce in a moment. So we are very happy to have a diverse set of voices participating in the conversation today. Before we get started, I just want to mention that if you have questions that you would like our panel to address, please ask them in the chat space next to the video player, or on Twitter using the hashtag LGBTI rights. We'll try to answer as many of your questions as possible, and we will also provide links to resources. So with that, special envoy Berry, can you briefly explain your role and what you've encountered during your first year on the job, traveling the world and working to address some of these critical issues? I'm happy to, and good morning, Mark, good morning, Judy, good morning to all of you that are joining us today. It's a tremendous opportunity, I think, for us to have a chance to talk through some of the global issues. At the outset, I would want to also just observe and to note this terrible tragedy that has occurred in Orlando. Certainly a grave, grave attack against members of the LGBTI community here in the United States, but also an attack against all Americans who believe in inequality, who believe in fundamental protection. So I think we need to keep that in mind as we have our discussion today. So for just over a year, I have been in this role as special envoy for the United States government, and have had the chance now to travel in 43 countries globally to engage in some pretty basic conversations. Those conversations have really revolved around what we can do to counter violence and discrimination against members of this community in a global sense. I've traveled in a number of different countries where the prevailing attitudes and norms have been wildly different, but I think one thing that has been absolutely common to that conversation is the ability to deepen an understanding based on personal knowledge, that I firmly, firmly believe that there is no substitute for people's understanding of making this a human story first and foremost. That's why I think a discussion of this film, a discussion of Matthew Shepard's story is extremely important to help us deepen people's understandings in a global context. So I believe that a lot of obstacles remain in our way, both here at home and abroad, but I think that that more and more we are seeing people join in this conversation and understanding that we're dealing with an issue of basic equality here. So I look forward to the discussion and to some of the questions. Thank you, Mr. Chlomboy-Barrie. Judy, following the anti-gay, bias-motivated murder of your son, Matthew, you and Dennis Shepard turn your grief into action by creating the Matthew Shepard Foundation to champion the causes of LGBTI equality, social justice, and diversity awareness and education. You led the fight to pass the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Act, in which the United States created laws providing resources for the federal government to track and prosecute LGBT hate crimes. Judy, tell us a bit about the work you do and some of your experiences working on LGBTI issues abroad. Well, it's been a wonderful experience. For Dennis and I, we've learned so much from other folks trying to achieve the same kind of equality that in the US we are gradually gaining, but still if we feel like two steps forward, one step back in all the work that we do, and certainly the incident in Florida's good example of that, the hate crime bill that existed before Matt was killed did not include sexual orientation or gender identity or the perception. So when they introduced that and it was finally signed into law by President Obama, we now had resources and the capability to protect, if you will, the gay community and it was a big step forward. It still has some work to be done on the law, but when we go abroad, we try to share how we worked with legislators and families of LGBT members where we go to convince them that our story, when it became personal, when it became about somebody, rather just in an abstract thought, that that's when things really started to move. Storytelling is just critical. It's critical because it humanizes the issue and everybody can relate when it becomes something personal. Thank you, Judy. Many of you have just seen or will have an opportunity to see the Emmy Award-winning documentary, Matt Shepherd is a Friend of Mine. The filmmaker, Michelle Hussway, is joining us remotely today. Michelle, can you briefly describe what inspired you to make this film? Sure, absolutely. You know, this story was very personal to me as Judy talked about. Matt was one of my best friends growing up and we went to high school together. So when he died, you know, I was just 19 at the time. It really opened my eyes to how cool and violent the world could be. I saw firsthand the violence and prejudice and bigotry, the LGBTI community based on an everyday basis and it just really devastated me and marked me deeply. So ever since that moment, I made, you know, a quiet promise to myself that when I was ready that I would honor my friend and share with the world who he was as a person, as a human being, allow the world to know Matt as more than just a news story, more than this horrific event that occurred. So, you know, it took me many, many, many years to gain the courage and I think the professional expertise to execute this kind of project, but I just felt it was my obligation as his friend and as an advocate and ally to do so and it's been one of the most meaningful experiences in my entire life. Thank you, Michelle. Let me just say a few more words to set the stage for the discussion. In April of this year, the State Department released its annual Human Rights Report and as usual, this year's report offers a disturbing picture of violence being committed against LGBTI persons everywhere. There are examples of targeted LGBT killings in all regions, family members, neighbors, gangs and strangers perpetrate these violent acts and police frequently refuse to intervene or investigate. It's a story that needs to be told to ensure it becomes less common. I'm going to start the conversation with a really broad question for our panel. Why is supporting and advocating for LGBTI rights including hate crime prevention so important across the world? Well, I'll answer from the US government's perspective is that we believe firmly that an ability to have conversations, to share our basic values, our basic understanding of this is an issue of equality and dignity under the law in any state under any constitutional arrangement is very, very important and to have the ability to engage in those conversations with government leaders, with leaders in the business community, with leaders in communities of faith within civil society and to take our cues from leaders in civil society and to really get a conversation going because as Judy said in her opening remarks, this to me is really an issue that is ultimately furthered by personal knowledge, by storytelling and by that personal contact. I don't think there's any substitute for that. So our ability to put a face to these issues, to talk about the underlying foundation which is an issue of equality. So we're not talking about an issue of special rights or a special category of observance. We're talking about a community that has far too long been excluded from national dialogues and who should no longer be expected to live in the shadows. Right, we just want to engage and give them some courage and some support so they know there are people out there who care about them and want them to gain the equality as Randy said and it's storytelling, but unless more and more people come out and be their authentic selves, the world will not know how many of us there really are. And that's really what's gonna make the change is when people realize their neighbors and family members are part of the community, that changes things. It changes perspective, it changes things. Absolutely, thank you. And Michelle? I just want to echo their sentiments and just add that we're all a part of a global community. We're all connected as human beings in this global society. You are shared humanity and in any goodness. So I feel it's just important as global citizens to support one another, to stand up for one another. And it's not true equality until all of us are equal, every single one of us. Thank you, Michelle. And Judy, let me just go back to you for a follow-up question. And you mentioned this in passing earlier, but can you tell us about your role as a parent advocate? Do you think your personal story, even your grief, opened hearts and doors that might not have been open to the same message coming from someone else? I absolutely think that's true. When Matt was still in the hospital before he passed, there were so many email messages and phone calls into the hospital asking us to please take advantage of this opportunity to speak about the community and about support and those things. And we'd always supported Matt. There was never a question that he was gonna be our son forever, no matter what. It didn't matter if he was gay or whatever, he was our son. And to understand that families were throwing away their children because of their sexual orientation was just unacceptable. So we felt at the very least if we could be parents who accepted our son that people could see the example of how important that is and to understand that they still have their children that the very least they can do is accept them for who they are to try and understand and educate themselves. And as parents, we come from a different perspective when we talk about the issues in the community, we have different stories to tell and a different way to tell them. And of all the mail and letters and calls and things that we got easily half from the straight community who were just like, we had no idea this was going on. So yes, I think it did open doors. Thank you, Judy. Let's go now to our online viewing group at the US Department of State Consulate in Mumbai, India where the Consul General, Tom Vita, will introduce the group. Then we'll take a question from the audience. Hi, Mr. Vita. Hi, good evening. Greetings from Mumbai to everybody. And I'm Tom Vita, I'm the Consul General here from the city of Mumbai, a vibrant city of 22 million but also home to some of India's most prominent LGBT advocate organizations. We're privileged to welcome some of India's most ardent defenders of sexual rights here with us tonight along with a number of friends and allies on this important issue. Among others, we have reps from Humphsofar Trust, from Cautious Mumbai International Queer Film Festival, and members of a number of campus LGBT organizations from some of Mumbai's most prestigious universities. And like others, this audience just watched Matt Shepard as a friend of mine, so it really is a great honor and privilege for us to be participating with Judy Shepard and Michelle Hosue and also, of course, with Special Envoy Barry and really special privilege to be participating with all the human rights offenders who are joining from around the world. As you noted, violence in Orlando really is a sobering reminder, I think, to all of us, that while there has been some progress, we must all continue to work together for greater acceptance and for and protection of sexual minorities. LGBT rights truly are human rights, and I think we're pleased to be able to join tonight. And it is our shared hope that the discussion tonight will help us for a greater understanding and invite greater activism. And I think with that, I'll turn it over to some of our participants who have some questions. Thank you. Hello, my question is to Judy. I noticed that you were in Saudi Arabia and I also noticed all these protesters outside the church. How much do you think is religious dogma behind homophobia and what do you think is the best way to deal with it as an advocate? Thank you for your question. I appreciate that very much. I think religion plays an enormous role in accepting all human beings. I am not, my personal story is not one of organized religion. So this part of it, I have a little hard time identifying how people's lives are dictated by what they learn from someone else about how they should treat other human beings. Members of the gay community are people, first and foremost, and my understanding of God is that he doesn't say you're okay, you're okay, you're not because of who you love. So I do think that it is one of the things that is keeping the advancement of the LGBTQI community from moving forward because as long as we teach that intolerance and in some cases even hate, folks will be afraid to be themselves and their family members will be challenged in accepting them for who they are. I think it's an extreme challenge and it's a worldwide issue. Many organized religions have something that is, that prevents their congregants from being a part of the world as a whole. So in my personal opinion, religion plays a deep role in intolerance, but also in acceptance. So which thing we just all have to work together and share our stories, because again, that's how things change. Thank you for your question. Thanks for that question. Is there another question from Mumbai? Yes, Judith, could I ask you a question? And that is, I saw the film on your son, and he touched him. And I want to ask you, has that after Orlando, do you see what kind of progress do you see? I'm actually very depressed with what has happened at Orlando, but as Matt's mother, what journey do you see over the last 18 years? I appreciate your question. And I'm with you on that sadness and depression. It's very disheartening in the States. We've made some progress. We've made great progress, but there are still some things we need to do. And as long as in the States in particular and worldwide, as long as we allow our leaders to continue to denigrate the gay community, it gives permission to others to vocalize and even act on their intolerance. It's tragic to think someone could do that and think that it's gonna be okay that it's not an acceptable way to behave. Even telling those jokes or using those words, unless we can figure out a way to make that an unacceptable societal norm, folks like this gentleman in Orlando will feel free to do whatever they wanna do and that society will not really care. Our political leaders, our civic leaders worldwide still come out with the most horrible, unacceptable things to say about the gay community. And it is not helpful to curb hate and violence when we find this happening. How do we change that? Well, we have to change civil society as a whole to not let their civil leaders get away with this kind of remarks, because we're all part of society and we're all people and everyone deserves the right to be equal. I wish I had a definitive answer for your question on how we move forward. We just have to stick together. We have to do this in a united front to be who we are and to take care of each other. In fighting among the gay communities with themselves is not helping. It is not helping. We need to be a united front and speak together with one voice. We need to do it together and we need to take care of one another and our families and our friends and we need to encourage them to speak out as well. Thank you, Judy. And I think one of the themes of pride and certainly pride this year is resilience in the face of adversity and difficulty. I mean, I think we all could use a little inspiration right now. And so I want to go to you, Special Envoy Barry. You've been having some difficult but interesting conversations with officials around the world. What inspiration have you drawn from some of those conversations where we may see some opportunities or some hope in regions where there are still persistent challenges and violence? Well, you know, the events of the last few days notwithstanding, I still have sense to a great global movement in terms of a greater understanding of the essential nature of the discussion on equality. You know, and I think that although I have seen plenty around the world to be concerned about, I still believe that that is outweighed, far outweighed by the examples of positive leadership that I've seen. Most of the time coming from actors in civil society who understand the context in which they're working, who understand their societies, who understand the scope of the challenge, who understand the nature of hate and still stand up and do what's right anyway. You know, and I've seen that kind of leadership being exhibited all around the world. Most recently, I had the chance to be in Kiev in Ukraine just last week where at the same time that we were grappling with this tragedy at home, Ukraine has managed to pull off a remarkably successful, peaceful and open expression of pride. Not that it begins and ends there, of course, that pride occurs one day a year. I'm far more interested in what's happening in the other 364 days of the year. But I think these expressions are very, very fundamentally important because they are an opportunity to stand up, to be visible and to begin to chip away at those attitudes because the longer people stay in the shadows, the longer these problems will persist. But I think people are pushing that envelope in nearly every country around the world, sometimes in the face of great and significant challenge. Thank you, Special Envoy Barry. And we'll be going now to some questions from our online viewers. But first, let me, if I could, go back to Michelle and just ask what inspiration she's drawn from showing this film around the world and on a day when I think we all could use some additional inspiration for pride. What lessons or stories or views can you share with us in how the film has been received? Sure, this film has been more than a film to me really. It's been a better part of six years of my life to be honest and within those six years from making the film, reconnecting with Matt and now sharing the film. I've learned and witnessed so much. I've grown personally as an ally and realized that my voice is valid, that I have something to contribute to the story as an upstander, as Matt's friend, as a friend to the LGBTI community. And that's been huge to me. Making the film, I think initially, I was wanting to gain some sort of closure and find some sense in what happened to Matt, but I realized that that's not really the point of it all. The point of it is to experience the grief of losing Matt and other people like him honoring that, recognizing that there's a special kind of righteous anger in that and that we can channel that in positive ways to enact change. So that's what's been really inspiring for me personally on this journey and sharing it. It's been really beautiful to see how audiences around the world have received the film and have still been touched by Matt's story so many years later. So many people come up to me after each screening and just share how that could have been them. And that's a really beautiful, meaningful experience. And like I said, in the beginning of the program, it's one that's been the most important experience of my life. Thank you, Michelle, and thank you for sharing that righteous anger. We'll go now to questions from online viewers from the US Embassy in El Salvador in San Salvador. How can we spark change and move people from intolerance to tolerance and from tolerance to acceptance and to embrace LGBTI people? So Judy, maybe we'll start with you. How do we move hearts and minds? Again, I think members of the community need to be themselves. It changes everyone's perspective and you find out the person you work with is a member of the community because they know you, they love you, they respect you as a co-worker. When they find out that you're gay, it changes everything. It's not the myth that they know, it's the truth that they know. And that's what changes people's minds. And asking them to help you and be with you and to support you in your struggle because in a lot of places in the world, it is a struggle. As Special Envoy Barry said, it varies from place to place, but it is still a struggle. And Special Envoy Barry is a US diplomat. How do we change hearts and minds? Yeah, well, first of all, I couldn't agree more with what Judy said. I think that the conversation that needs to be had a hundred times a day, a thousand times a day, a million times a day is about the fundamental reality of what it means to be a member of our community. I think people generally in any country, any society, tend to fear what they don't know. I think that we have a great gap of knowledge that exists in a global context. And the good news is that I think that kind of lack of knowledge can be addressed through education. But that makes it incumbent upon all of us, those of us who have responsibility in government to engage with other governments to see that civil society is being resourced in the way that they can, to harness the power of the private sector in having these conversations. These conversations need to be happening on multiple levels every single day. That is what I think ultimately tears down those walls, makes it personal for people and that therefore increases their capacity to learn and to understand. I think that at the end of the day, once people understand that discrimination or acts against members of this community is no different from than acts or hate based on race, based on gender, based on any other fundamental marker of identity, once people begin to accept that and understand that, I think we have made a major step forward. Thank you for that. And another question for Judy and maybe Michelle as well, what advice do you have for parents or friends whose children are being bullied or harassed? Well, that's a good question. And it's a universal question and I wish it had an answer. There are bullying programs where you can engage kids in school, but when it's a larger bullying problem like just a community issue, as a parent, what I think is the most important is to reinforce to your child in particular that you support them, that you are with them no matter what. There are ways to handle bullies and every culture has its own particular idea about how to do that and to be safe. I guess the most important thing is to ensure that everyone is safe and to figure out ways to help and protect them. But this isn't a question that has an answer because every culture has a different way to deal with these sort of situations. And in the US, even state to state or town to town, they handle it differently and not always really well. It's a challenging problem. And Michelle, do you have any reflections on that as well? Yeah, I mean, it is a simple question on its face, but it's really kind of hard. So I can only answer it as a friend. For me, it's just important to offer empathy to my LGBTI friends and understanding, somehow communicate to them that I will be there for them and listen to them without judgment, just so that they don't feel alone. And I think that's a big piece in this. So many LGBTI people, young people in particular, are scared and they're scared of rejection. And it's just important to be that safe place where they know that they could go to without, again, without judgment and without that rejection. A lot of communities have community organizations or community centers like PFLAG where there is family support and there's a safe place to talk to one another and share their own best practices, if you will, what works for them and what doesn't in their own culture. And if there's not one, start one. Good advice. For Special Envoy Barry, there's a question, what is the US doing from a policy's perspective to address LGBTI rights globally? Is the UN working on this issue as well? Are there any other initiatives the US is supporting? Well, you know, since 2011, the United States government has been working on the human rights angle of this particular story in a global context. We do that through engagement with, through all of our bilateral relationships with nations around the world, but we also engage with multilateral organizations to share our policy, to seek change and to build coalitions. The question there about UN, about the United Nations is that there has been a very active effort at the United Nations through UNDP's free and equal campaign, which has been very, very important, I think, to beginning to chip away at this in a global context. I'd also note that through the UN, we've seen, I think, two sets of important actions. One is the formation of an LGBT core group of like-minded countries at the United Nations in New York. That organization, that grouping of like-minded countries is nearing 30 member states. And it's no longer territory that's necessarily defined solely by those countries in Northern Europe who have historically been leaders on this. It is now being increasingly defined by leadership from South America, from Mexico, which is one of the most recent countries to join. It's being led by Japan, one of the Asian countries that sits on that grouping. So I think there's some very promising work there at the Human Rights Council in Geneva that have been successive resolutions that have been led by the Latin American contingent, which we've been very, very supportive of. Again, because it redefines this into what it is in reality, and it's a global issue. This is not an issue that simply needs to, and a conversation that needs to take place in the West. These are universal norms of human rights, and we need to make that a global conversation right across the board. But I still think that there's a lot to be done, but I think building through these coalitions can help us because Judy mentioned the issue of sticking together in unity. I think that is as important as that is from the civil society perspective. I think that's also very important from a relational perspective that the United States has with its allies and friends. We get more done together than we do when we're divided. And I think building those coalitions out is a very important aspect of my work. Thank you. And a question from Chennai and India. What could be done in schools and colleges to create a feeling of safety for LGBTQ students in the campus? Judy, do you want to score? Yeah, I'll go there. A lot of campuses in the, I'm not that familiar with campuses globally, but in the U.S., many, many college campuses have LGBT organizations. They're called a variety of names, JSAs or rainbow clubs or whatever. They're all different. I don't really know why they're all different, but they are. Actually, the best one is in Minnesota. It's called GLO, Gay, Lesbian or whatever. I think that kind of covers everything. But it's a safe space. And again, often supported by the university itself, which is really great because they know that there's support coming from the top down. So that creates an atmosphere of acceptance for all students, including their LGBTQI students. And Michelle, I know you've screened this film on campuses and have had conversations on campuses. Do you have any perspectives on that question? A lot of the schools, campuses, universities that I've been to have groups that Judy mentioned. They have events where I'm invited, diversity events, where they welcome diverse points of view and voices and have these kinds of healthy discussions. Those are crucial. It's crucial in dismantling, you know, ignorance and prejudice and stereotypes. So those are things that give me hope and inspiration to witness these things happening and have young people learn about these issues early on and then they take that with them forward into adulthood because they're going to be, you know, the next leaders of our society. Thank you, Michelle. And another question from an online viewer. How do members of the LGBTI community engage in religious dialogue? And maybe Special Envoy Barry, we could go to you. I know the State Department has encouraged interfaith dialogue on a range of human rights issues. Could you say a few words about that? Sure, I'm very happy actually to get that question because I think a dialogue and engagement with throughout religious communities is an absolutely fundamental part of steps forward here. I think for too long, we have simply accepted a situation or a perception that to be religious means somehow to be, you know, counter to interests of the community and that somehow to be a member of our community also means that you're not a member of a community of faith. Of course, we know that's absolutely not correct. The vast majority of people from our community are also people of faith, that there is a role here, there is a discussion that has to be engaged. I firmly believe that to have these conversations again at the most basic level within communities, within local parishes is a very important place to start. And to make sure that we don't fall into the dialogue that somehow by definition, religion opposes interests of our community. I've had the privilege over the last year to meet so many people, leaders in communities of faith that are doing the right thing and speaking up more and more and more around the world to make sure that we know that faith can be used in all sorts of ways. But if you look back to the golden rule, if you look back to the unifying principles really in an interfaith sort of way, issues of compassion, issues of tolerance, issues of acceptance are all there. So I think that we need to see that dialogue develop and really flourish. Thank you. Judy, did you have thoughts on the interfaith dialogue aspect of the conversation? I agree with Special Envoy totally. The, I have seen, since Matt was killed in the last 18 years, a dramatic shift in the religious community, all communities of faith towards acceptance of the gay community. Based on their congregants being a member of the community or themselves being a member of the community and laws changing, it's been a dramatic shift of acceptance. That being said, there's still a contingency that is not there yet. And it's just gonna take more conversations and more people willing to have those conversations. Thank you, Judy. There's a question from a high school student in Moldova who asks for Judy, what can we do in the case of a teacher or a person with influence when that person is expressing their negative attitude about the LGBT community? How can that student react to this? Do you have any advice for how to react and stand up to intolerance in schools or in any other daily setting? Yeah, you know, that's a really difficult situation, particularly in places where being gay is not a readily accepted thing. Well, even in the States, we still encounter teachers and staff members in schools who are not in the mood to accept their gay students or their gay friends, and it's a huge problem. In a country where it is less accepting and maybe even be dangerous, my feeling is there's safety in numbers and to engage friends and allies alone, and I would never advocate directly challenging anyone in a place where it's not safe, but just to be aware that it's gonna happen and to know that there are people out there who support you. I know nothing about Moldova in particular. I don't know the situation there. I know kids in the States who are very frightened still to be confrontational or even to question someone's language of a teacher based on what they're gonna find in the building or among their friends. The number one thing I always advocate is to be safe and be aware of your surroundings. If there is someone that you trust in a position of authority, that is the one thing you can do that is probably the most safe, and I would recommend that. Thank you. This is a great conversation. I'd love to go back to Mumbai now and see if there are any questions from there. Please keep asking questions on the chat space or on Twitter using the hashtag LGBTQI rights. So let's go back to our viewing group in Mumbai, India for another question. Mumbai, do you have a question for us? Of course, greetings from Mumbai. My question is for both Judy and Michelle. I just have to say that you guys are the most amazing role models in the world. I think you're the parent and the friend that every single queer and straight person would want. I remember in 1998, like it was yesterday, I was 13 years old and I was so, so, so scared, like glued to the TV constantly because that was my commitment to myself that I'm never gonna come out. I'm never gonna share with anyone. And I mean, my question is, what would you say to those youth who around the world are still that scared? And if I may ask as well, what would you say to Matthew if you had the ability to say something to him today? Perhaps the youth struggling around the world, that's a big question. When Matt came out to me, it was like, be patient. The world may not be ready for you yet, but it will be at some point in time and to never give up. Always be true to who you are. Don't let other people influence the decisions about how you think about yourself. There are folks who love you and support you. Just don't ever give up because every day is a brand new day. Things move forward. It may take time, but it will get there. And there is families everywhere that you choose and families that you're into who will support and love you. Just have faith in the change in the world and the way positive things are happening because they are happening. With the involvement of the UN and governments, as Special Envoy said earlier, governments willing to engage in these conversations now. So just please, please, please don't give up. And what I would say to now, Matt is, oh my God, I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you. And I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. Thanks. Special Envoy, Gary, I know UNESCO recently held a high level dialogue on anti-bullying efforts with particular focus on the LGBTI community and some other international organizations have been looking increasingly at bullying as a human rights concern. Can you talk a little bit about our support for those efforts and some of the work that you think international organizations or even the State Department could do to support anti-bullying efforts and provide opportunities for students to be safe and secure? Sure, I think there's a great opportunity to engage in these conversations. And since the State Department really is looking at our international relationships and our engagement in a global context is to look at this recent gathering that UNESCO convened in Paris. We were represented at a very senior level to share our views. But I think it's all part of a global progression where governments around the world are waking up to the incredibly devastating impact that bullying can have in school, often supported by conversations within broader communities, also aided where we still have these anachronistic laws that criminalize members of the community. These all contribute in a very tangible way to the dangers and to the fears. For young people that are grappling with their sexual orientation, who have enough to worry about in just getting through that right of passage to adulthood, but they don't need all of this negative messaging added on top of that. So using these structures, using our relationships to engage in that conversation as well is very fundamentally a part of this also. Thank you. Moombai, do you have another question for the panel? Hello. My question is to address this notion that being gay can be cured. So in India, that's one of the more common rebuttals that parents have when their kids come out. And even this morning, there was a post that went viral on Facebook where a guy who had just come out to his mom spoke about how she counted that it can be cured. And that's a very common notion here. So what legislative changes would you suggest that as were implemented in the US to curb the effect of this notion that it can be cured and that doctors can help? Thank you. Thank you. Maybe first to Judy, do you have any thoughts on this notion that being gay is a choice or that it can be cured? And then we could talk about some of the legislative steps to ensure that these treatment programs are not causing harm to youth. Yeah, so, well, first off to say that it can be cured is to say that it's some kind of a disease and it's not, it's who you are. It's who you are. How you live your life is your choice, but being gay, straight or whatever is who you are. No one chooses to, I think one day decided to be straight. So I know people didn't one day decide that they were gay, it's just who you are. In the States, we're grappling with that, the idea of conversion therapy, which has been proven to be mentally and sometimes physically very damaging to young people who are put into those kinds of situations where they're constantly being told that they are wrong, that for some reason that what they're thinking in their head can be changed, it just can't. But I, because it is such a prevalent a prevalent idea, we're having a really difficult time convincing folks that this needs to be addressed as a safety issue and that it is not, not a valid thought, not a valid way to go. You are who you are and to try to convince you that you're not who you are just doesn't work. We're having to address that issue in the States legislatively, which I think is tragic in its own way. Michelle, maybe if I could turn to you, there's an increasing movement across campuses here in the United States where individuals who have suffered through these sorts of conversion therapy programs, who have been harmed and traumatized by them, are coming together and standing up and telling their stories. I'm wondering if they've been involved in any of the campus events that you've been to and if you have any perspective on that in terms of your dialogues with young people around this movie? No, unfortunately not. I have not in my travels met any of those young people have courageously gone through that and courageously gotten through to the other side. I do have a personal friend who in high school was forced to go through this type of therapy and I'm happy to say that she's found herself in really blossom despite of all of that. So this idea is very complex and very baffling to me. It's very unfortunate to think that parents aren't able to accept their children for who they are. So, I don't really have much to add to that really. Just utter disappointment, I guess. Thank you, thank you. Thanks, Mumbai, for those questions. Let's get back to some more questions from our online viewers. One viewer asks, many advocacy organizations are using social media to advocate for acceptance, tolerance, and to erase hate. Can you tell us how you are evaluating the impact of these efforts? Judy, maybe in terms of your own foundation, how do you evaluate the impact of these efforts? And then Randy, in terms of US government supported programming, how do we evaluate the impact we're having? We are one of the social media presence on the social media for exactly that thing, erase hate and encourage understanding and compassion. But really, it's a tough thing to evaluate. The only way you can do it is when people share their stories with you and we get a lot of that. And it's very encouraging for us to know that our information is getting out there and perhaps being helpful. Websites that have resources and all those things, but where you can go to be safe for information, health information, anyone who can share those kinds of stories is the only way really you can evaluate the impact of social media. The downside to that is the internet is a great place for good things, but it's also a very scary place too. And so I would just really encourage folks to don't read the comments, don't go there, don't go down into that darkness. Say where the light is, because you don't need that added pressure of what trolls are doing, stay above that. And Special Envoy Barry, in terms of the impact of some of the US government, the State Department's investments in civil society development and messaging. Yeah, I think an increasingly important tool in the arsenal of civil society groups is their ability to speak remotely through these social media platforms. What we know from being a member of this community, from understanding the nature of this dialogue is that this is a deeply isolating experience, or can be. I think that, as Judy mentioned, I mean the internet poses both wonderful resource and opportunity to make sure people understand that they're not alone, that they have access to health and social support that maybe didn't exist a few years ago, certainly not when I was young and dealing with these issues. But I also think these are rather difficult to evaluate because how are we going to know a young kid out in the heartland of pick a country around the world that's gonna have access to some accurate information and will make those choices in life that will lead them to live a productive and happy life as opposed to turning this violence that's often so threatened from the outside inwards. I think that's one of the great tragedies of our time is that we are failing our children and our young people by not providing the resources in the safe environment, where they can simply grow up to be who they are. I think this is an important tool. And again, I've seen very, very effective social media efforts in dozens of countries around the world to know this is an effective tool. I would also say, and voice Judy's comments also, that the anonymity of the internet can also be a very dark place. And I think people feel quite brave and brazen to share stories of hate in all of these vectors. And we just need to ignore that kind of hate. Ultimately, it proves our point that there is just too much ignorance and hate out there, but to move beyond it to really don't let that hold us back. Thank you. And a question from Michelle. Why is storytelling and perhaps cultural exchange more broadly such an important tool in shifting people's views on these issues? I think it's always very important to support diverse voices and diverse stories and allow people to be exposed to those things. As a storyteller, primarily as a filmmaker, I feel that there's tremendous power in sharing one story. Film is my medium. So to be able to sit in a dark, safe space and just quietly witness another person's story and experience, take an hour and a half to step into their own shoes, that's crucial in allowing, it forces you to live in their experience, to learn empathy. And I think that's what changes the world, empathy and connection, recognizing pieces of yourself and other people. So I think that's what's at the heart of a lot of these types of issues is just like that personal human connection. And it's what, again, it's what changes the world and it changes hearts and minds. And for me as a storyteller and through film, I think stories and film is, that's the path and the catalyst for which these types of changes can take place. Thank you, Michelle. We have a number of questions. So keep them coming. We have a question from Liketsu Kokome from Wasutu who sent in a question on Twitter and asks, have there been any laws passed since the death of Matt Shepard? Judy, do you wanna take that first? Yeah, well Matt died in 1998. So in 2009, when President Obama came into office, the Matthew Shepard, James Burr Jr., Hate Crime Prevention Act, finally passed through Congress and went to the president's desk and he signed it. This increased protections to an already existing hate crime law, but now it also included sexual orientation, gender identity, the perception of either or both gender and disability. And it provided law enforcement with a tool to broaden their investigations and because now LGBTQI people were in a protected class. So that's one thing that changed. And it was the first time that a federal law actually added protections to the gay community, rather than removing them. And after that, Don't Ask, Don't Tell went away. Marriage is now legal in the U.S., in entire country, not just pieces, but everywhere. We still have a lot of work to do. You can still be fired in many states in the U.S. for being a part of the community, but that will change as well. That will change as well. It's just ridiculous that it's even still there, but it will change. Other than that, in the federal law, not much has changed. State by state, they've done different degrees of taking things away and giving things to the gay community. There is a very diverse opinion legislatively state in each individual state about how to do that. So as a traveler in the states, you have to be aware of what you're running into where you go. So please, if you're planning to come here, educate yourself about where you're safe and where you're not. Because there are places here where you are not. Can I hop in there, Mark, also, and just add to something that Judy said? And that is how much we have seen, both prior to the passage of the shepherd-bird law and after, is that this is quickly becoming, I believe, a global norm, that we've seen a number of jurisdictions around the world move forward on hate and bias-motivated crime. And that's one of the key focus areas that we have in our own efforts moving forward. I mean, I look at a country like Chile who faced, you know, who basically took a deep tragedy as we have here in the states and turned it into positive reforms. That, you know, the death of Daniel Zamudio there really was the catalyst for Chile adopting a hate crime stance and becoming a global leader in terms of working on these rights as well. So I really see this very much as an ongoing trend. Thank you. A question from Consulate Erbil. Do you have any ideas on best practices for supporting the human rights of LGBT individuals in the Middle East or other majority Islamic countries? We'll tell us that to you, Special Envoy Barry, please. Sure, you know, I think a conversation, the initial conversation that has to be had in any environment that is particularly challenging for our sets of issues has to be a frank conversation with civil society. You know, that I think that those who are working in this space are deeply knowledgeable about the context in which they are working in. I think that the ability to talk, to share best practices and share ideas with other activists in the region can also be very, very helpful. Again, because I think the tragedy is is when we have people who feel in any context that they are alone in this struggle, you are not alone. You know, there are millions of people around the world working on these agendas. So I think, you know, we look at best practices wherever they're occurring, whether that's, you know, in the Middle East where there are some very innovative and resourceful civil society folks at work. We need to share those ideas. We need to share inspiration. Sometimes we need to share resources to make sure that they have the ability to do their work. And we, you know, as a representative of government, need to be engaging to make sure that there is adequate space for civil society groups to operate and do their work, because there's no substitute for that in really seeing change through. So a viewer in Tegucigalpa says, in Honduras, our society is very hostile towards LGBTI groups and even links the LGBTI community with crime and illegal activities. How can we change a patriarchal society to make it embrace the LGBTI community? I'll start off again with Special Envoy Berry. I know our embassy in Tegucigalpa has been very involved in this question. They have, you know, as well as many of our other embassies around the world. You know, there's a particular challenge here that I think, you know, frequently there are attempts to link the LGBTI community to other challenges in an environment. I think that's really unfortunate because it robs the essential question about equality and dignity. One thing that we see throughout that, the entire Latin American region, for example, and certainly we're not immune to this in the US either, is if we, you know, pick out a subset of that and look at treatment of transgender individuals in almost any society globally. There is also that willingness, that desire to look at transgender individuals in those same contexts that the person is asking about. The reality is, is because we can't, as a society, get our heads around the idea of basic and fundamental freedoms and inequality, that these individuals get pushed out to the margins of society, and people have to live. You know, so we are constantly shocked that there is an overlap or a preponderance of members of the transgender community that might be involved in these things, but this is where people have been pushed because they don't have the avenues to success and opportunity. That's the conversation we need to be having. You know, so I think it's a long, you know, the question about how we challenge in a more traditional patriarchal society. I think the guidance that I would offer is very much the same as I would with any other community and that is, is you have to have these conversations and they have to take place in the home and they have to take place, you know, on multiple levels and they have to take place within communities of faith. I think that's what produces change in any context. And Judy, you're nodding. Well, I can't help but relate this to the story of, again, I'm not that familiar with Central America but the patriarchal society. Yes, I absolutely am because I'm a woman. So I know that the men in society always have the advantage of, you know, what's happening. I grew up in a time where when I went to college I could only be three things, a nurse, a teacher, or a wife. So that's, you know, I totally get that. But what's happening here is we need the men to speak out. When we travel and my husband Dennis always says, I wish more dads would tell the story. I wish more dads would say how much they love and respect their kids and want their kids to be safe and happy and leave the same lives everybody else is living. I wish that was happening. And the leaders in civil society, their dads, they have kids and those kids just may be gay. And if they would take the steps to be honest about that and who they are and how they, and understand how they can just change the total tone of the conversation, that would be huge. Thank you. Absolutely. So a question from Embassy Malawi in Africa. Any ideas on best practices for supporting human rights of the LGBT persons in African countries? Where hate crimes are a result of cultural and religious beliefs in so many cases? Sure, you know, again, I think that this proposition that somehow the human rights or the issue of equality for people is somehow culturally relative is a stance that I just completely reject. We're talking about a universal human rights issue. You can't define that away. Any more than you would excuse discrimination based on gender or based on race as some sort of cultural value. I just don't think it's there. Again, as with all of these things, I think that the conversation that needs to be happening is about the fundamental human reality of this. That again, once people get their heads around that we're not talking about whether or not there are LGBTI folks in your society, it's not the conversation at all or whether an embrace actually is gonna produce more is really silly. The more people realize these affect your brothers and sisters, your sons, your daughters, and they're in every walk of society, the better off we'll all be. Thank you. Well, we're almost out of time. There's one final question from a viewer in Embassy Minagua, Nicaragua. What measures are being taken for the educational system beyond a web chat or a video in order to promote and demand respect for human rights for people as people, despite or in addition to their orientation? So what additional steps are we taking in terms of education and outreach? Maybe here at the State Department as well as through your foundation, Judy. Well, I will make this broader than our foundation. In the U.S., again, I'm sorry to be focusing on the U.S. but there are resources available everywhere that can be mailed. We have such a, we have a very difficult time even here introducing into our school system anti-bullying policies because we have some parents who say, well, I agree with that, but not for those gay kids. So we still have that issue here. We don't teach gay history. We don't, you know how gay folks are involved in the history of the world and the U.S.? We just sort of pretend they never existed and that's when we have no background and no historical knowledge of what happened. It's hard to equate that with existence in the world today. So when you try to get into a curriculum or an anti-bullying program in school, it's really hard. But when you have an online service like the Southern Parbury Law Center based in the U.S., they will send you educational materials that will help you with your civil group or your educational group or an organization to help you get started. And in addition to web chats like this, what are some other steps? Well, I'd say a key part of our engagement also with governments is to look at educational reform and using opportunities for curriculum reform to again serve our citizenry better, to make sure that in so many places around the world, textbooks are still teaching children that this is somehow an aberrant behavior when in fact we know that's not the case. So we encourage that kind of reform through broader educational policy and curriculum reforms. And we're seeing that happen, I think in some interesting places, including Japan. Thank you. It looks like we are out of time for today. I'd like to thank everyone for their participation in today's web chat. Thank you, all of you, our online viewers, including all of those watching with viewing groups across the world. A special thanks to our group at the Consulate in Mumbai, India, and of course a big thanks to our panelists in the studio for coming here to answer our questions and for telling personal stories that Judy and Michelle are obviously still so difficult even today. Special envoy Barry, Judy, Michelle, do you have any final thoughts that you would like to share before we end? Start with you, Judy. I found thoughts that just don't give up. Just things will change, things will get better. Don't give up, be yourself, and look forward to a brighter future. Special envoy Barry? From my perspective, I'd like to just really acknowledge the work that Judy and Dennis have done and to Michelle for her fine work on this film. This is about the best example of citizen leadership that I've ever seen and the fact that they have ensured that Matt's story didn't end 18 years ago. The story of his life is about so much more and about what his legacy can be and that I think is a tremendous example for us all. So I'm really pleased, as I always am, to be able to share the stage with Judy. Thanks. Absolutely. And Michelle? I'm tearing up. I just wanna say that I'm very honored to take part in this type of event for the opportunity to share Matt with the world. I made this film because I wanted to reclaim a small part of him and his humanity and to share that, but also for all of us to reconnect to that anger and that outrage we all felt back in 98 and we're feeling it, especially here in the States now. So it's important to be talking about these things, to share our stories, and I'm proud to do it. Thank you, Michelle, and thank you for sharing that righteous anger again. Thank you all so much for contributing your expertise and insights to this important conversation. Pride is really a celebration of the strength and resilience of the LGBTI community, and that's so important after the tragedy in Orlando this week. The stories that we've heard today are a testament to that resilience and a tribute to all who fight for human rights and human dignity for everyone, no matter who they are or who they love. A number of online resources have been shared in the chat space next to the video player, so please check them out. Also, we will have a second live LGBTI rights web chat today at 3 p.m. Washington D.C. Time, 1900 UTC. Unfortunately, Judy will have to leave as she's traveling on to Eastern Europe to lead an LGBTI event over there. Best of luck, Judy. Replacing her on the panel for the next session is Jason Marsden, Executive Director of the Matthew Shepard Foundation. A recording of this program will be available on the webpage at the end of the day, so please feel welcome to share it with your friends and colleagues. We'll be back in four hours on this page for the next session. Thank you for participating today and keeping the dialogue going. Thank you.