 Hello hello hello what's up everybody we're here classic cast number 30 it's been a long time since we've done a classic cast but we're back we've been really busy with a lot of stuff we're here with Tess we were stay safe as always and also we're here with our good friend Matt season he is doing a face reveal today for us a face reveal this is the real Matt season show yes he's here very very excited to have him here and yeah we have a lot of luck at me we got a lot to talk about beta ended right which is where we've been we've been in beta world for a long time and we're focusing on the end of the beta doing some doing tournament stuff the world first race for retail wow we were we were doing a lot of world first-ware stuff stay safe with Red Bull myself and Tess through a method race and now we're back we're ready to talk so mad season how are you man I'm pretty good can I do my intro sure hey guys what's up mad season here back with another podcast for you wait wait you messed it up it's versus done done done done missed opportunity damn it let's cancel it I'm done so yeah guys anyway thank you guys so much for joining us today we'll see you guys for the next class guest in about two months so yeah well Matt season it's good to have you on man like it was cool to play with you during the beta that was the first time I've really talked to you how did you like the beta beta was fun I got in a bit late but I mean it's it's you know as far as classic is concerned I've been talking about it for geez probably ever since 2016 even before the original announcement so you know I don't play private servers as well so actually being able to play it was like a really big deal for me because it was the first time since let's see January 27 2007 right so about 12 years for me and no man it was it was everything I ever imagined it to be and it was super super fun the community aspect was on point the just the actual gameplay was on point as well and like really it sucked when it ended to because now I'm kind of like I need my fix right I need my fix but yeah 20 more days are you excited about post beta depression man yeah and I'm kind of filling it in with more videos so I talked to you guys a bit earlier off stream but I've just been editing editing 10 hours 12 hours a day so I guess I'm still getting my fix in one way or not a lot of people all three of us actually have played private servers since vanilla well ended so you return it to beta after you know 12 or 13 years of not playing was it pretty much what you have sorry voice cut out a little bit of my voice get out was the beta classic beta pretty much what you remembered of vanilla wow or were there some weird nuances that you had forgotten about there was a lot of little things that I forgot about like just just a little stuff like I guess the rogue stealth animation was off or something that's something that slipped past me and you know just a lot of little stuff like you know just details of like weapon skills and stuff that I miss remembered but you know like the big picture stuff like I said like the community aspect of it that's the thing I'm most excited about and I hope we talk about a lot in this podcast that was like it's the most important thing for me in the game and that pretty much was as I remembered it so I guess like to answer your question like a lot of the minor stuff I tend to forget but I mean it has been 12 years but like the big picture stuff is pretty much as I expected it to be right so do you know same with me like the first time we had really interacted I think was on the beta and actually mad season mad season helped out a ton with the the dueling tournament that we did on a channel mad season stay safe both actually stay safe with the with the idea to move around the planet and the planet move around the world I got some of my but I move around the world and actually like have everybody I've like warlock summon to different locations stuff if we need to and then mad season was able to coordinate all that up for us so so both stay safe and mad season were like a huge help for for all that but but yeah so what are your you play warlock is that what you're gonna main all the way through or is that just that's just what I played for the beta it was between warrior and warlock and just playing the warlock is I kind of figured out I'm a melee at heart right there's something about melee and classic that it just I just love and no no offense to warlocks are there it's probably my first main right and I played a rogue in my original play back in 0507 so I just you know I want to go warrior this time because it's I mean it's kind of like the mascot of my channel anyway but I did want to expand a bit more he said like the summoning for the dueling tournament mm-hmm I also want to give it because it wasn't just just me and stay safe there's also a guy named Fedonax who helped with the summons and McConnell also lent the hand DJ penguin I saw him in chat there and McConnell was helpful yeah he was really that's right I don't believe you I'm telling you guys I've been saying this forever McConnell secretly runs the wow section behind the scenes and nobody believes me every every single drama decision anything that happens that you guys see on twitch it's McConnell has scripted the entire thing he's the overlord I'm telling you guys nobody believes me but that's how it works he's the kingmaker dude for sure but uh but no yeah that's that's awesome and that was a whole lot of fun so so you you made a warrior you've made a warrior all like basically your entire time playing wow or was it just back in vanilla was actually rogue I played a rogue manly well I first leveled a paladin I was a retribution paladin for some reason I didn't stick with it I'm not sure what's wrong with me but I guess I didn't like well my guild kind of forced me to healed as it tends to happen with paladins in classic but I was I was kind of caught in between I would like use of the bear gear still and I was retribution specced because you know back then you can't tell like what spec someone yeah I throw like three heels go out of mana and then you know may have k for the rest of the fight and then I event cuz they wouldn't let me DPS so I eventually switched to rogue so but no I I I want to go warrior this time just because it's melee but it's a different experience I was thinking of retribution paladin but I didn't want to just be in your shadow the whole time so I think I think it's just best to go warrior so so when did you start playing when you start playing vanilla oh man you like to ask me my favorite question I've gone over this on YouTube a bunch I take every excuse to talk about this I I started in March of 2005 a couple months late few months well four months late I guess it would be right so good five months I played a game called Star Wars galaxies you guys may have heard of that one that was my first MMO and let me know if I'm getting off track here but I played that basically until I ran out of friends because they all quit for this game called World of Warcraft and I eventually joined I ran out of people to play with and yeah in March 2005 and you know just the rest is history from there there you go and have you been playing pretty consistently all the way from vanilla up to DFA or taking breaks or I played all of vanilla most of Burning Crusade all of Wrath and Cataclysm and Missa Pandaria is when I kind of started to lose interest a little bit I kind of let my subscription go I played like probably in total about half those expansions each and then like I said earlier before we started stream I played all of Draenor for some reason I guess I'm crazy that's why I started my YouTube channel though so I guess I had more reason to play it and then all of Legion and all of VFA so far so for most of the game I guess really just Cataclysm and Miss would be like my weakest area in terms of play time yeah and you brought up your YouTube channel specifically starting content and what one thing that I've always loved about your content is that pretty much from the beginning at least from the beginning of when I started watching your videos it was always kind of classic oriented and it's always kind of very like throwback mm-hmm when did you start making classic videos and what compelled you to start making these videos especially because you started before the classic announcement even happened well as far as classic is concerned I'm glad you mentioned that because since the channel's creation I always use that classic transmog for warrior and the number one comment on my channel is your voice sucks and number two was your transmog sucks and I've changed nothing between both of those so I guess really specifically with classic I started that in Legion and not really for like any huge reason I think just one day I was feeling a nostalgic and I felt about you know talking about the old talent trees or something it's a super old video then you know people liked it so I said okay well and what else do I remember from back in the day weapons skills let me talk about that and it just kind of grew from there really there you go yeah I think that's one thing I think with your channel with your YouTube channel and those of you guys who haven't already should definitely go subscribe to Matt season's YouTube channel I think it kind of hits the broader like wow audience in terms of like you you have videos that are kind of more related to like current wow and then you've kind of transitioned more and more into like the classic scene as time's gone on but I think that's how a lot of people have felt about classic right you have you have a large number of people large population of people who maybe they weren't always thinking about oh man I can't wait to play class again this that or whatever they weren't playing on private servers anything like that but then as the classic announcement has happened and kind of things have snowballed a little bit picked up we saw the big hype on twitch and on the beta it wasn't even the real game and it was really exciting people seem to have been more and more excited about classic or they're more and more into it or even people who are kind of getting back into gaming even I know there's plenty of people I hear about it all the time people who just like haven't played games in a while and they're getting back because of been in a while and I mean that's what happened to me like I spent like two years and I didn't even play games or anything because I was like working and I was like being a normal person and then and then I started playing on private server and then my brain went haywire so so yeah it's kind of how it went for me anyway yeah it was as fun that used the word throwback yeah I think your videos like for me the appeal of them they're very like welcoming and endearing and like throwback in sort of nostalgia and reminisce reminisce if that's a word I think I think it like honestly the three of us myself I speak for myself probably guilty of this to a certain extent a lot of classic content or vanilla content can come off as sort of elitist or exclusionary in a lot of ways and your content is not like that at all like it's it's very palatable to everyone that wants to play the game classical at any level I think yeah well again a big reason for that is just simply like I can't really be elitist because again like I don't really play private servers so again a lot of my knowledge is just memories right so like I can't really say I'm like good at the game to really warrant being elitist at all so maybe that's where the appeal comes from like most of my guides are like for beginners right because that's that's what I know mostly like my class picking guides is very very based towards beginners professions just the basic stuff I tend to try not to get into the advanced stuff because it's just simply I don't know too much about it but yeah it's just from experience personally is where all that comes from or lack thereof I guess I mean honestly like like even just going through your content right now like I've got your YouTube page I feel like the thing that you do so well like one of the reasons why I just I keep coming back to your videos over and over again is like the stories you tell and the memories you recall they always like like they always cause me to recall like another memory of like something similar at the time like it feels like whenever I watch your videos it's like story time with mad season and like it's always like it always feels like just something from the past some memory that I forgot 15 years ago can't even recall it not even like for you know you just you just don't remember and then all of a sudden oh yeah dude you'll bring something up like you know the aq gates and then the three different gems that you had to get the three colored crystals oh my god yeah like it's really really cool yeah and again thank you for this it's you guys humble me here I appreciate it it's I'm glad they hit the mark certainly yeah for sure so here's the thing mad season did you put out that video you talked about yet what were your plans are for classic not yet I was gonna kind of save that maybe like right before release just in case you know it I'm not sure if it's a good idea to really put that out too soon maybe okay depending on everyone's plans and stuff but I guess I really haven't decided on that yet maybe a couple okay well I think you're we could give a we'd give him a little bit of a sneak peek and yeah we're going I we're also gonna treat this classic cast as a pseudo interview for mad season joining my guild he's gonna play a warrior so you're gonna play yeah you're gonna play a warrior right do you want a tank or do you want a DPS oh come on man well what does any warrior in classic want to do it's all DPS they all want to heal and re-roll I'll bring my band-dates I'm down for that okay so you're gonna play a fury wearing classic what what have you done what was your like experience in actual vanilla you said you played a rep pound for a little bit then you re-rolled rogue like how far did you get my guild was pretty hardcore back then we were on cadgar line side which is kind of pathetic in terms of raid progression so I don't want to like say this is bragging at all because we were like we're the best of the worst pretty much right okay but we're number two a line skilled for most of our time oh really we got through all of molten core of course a nixio blackwing lair all the 29 rage aq 20 zg and aq 40 would have been like the first raid that we didn't full clear we got everything but cocoon and everything but the optionals right and for next ramus we got all the spider wing which is like easy swing back then and I say like one boss in each of the other wings my friends and old raid mates say that we've got more than that but I don't know I personally don't remember I think we just got one in all the other wings so maybe like 30% of next ramus so it was it was fairly far but not you know complete by any means that's for PvE as far as PvP is concerned I got ring 10 I'm 99% sure which was enough for the blue set so I mean I basically had no life I was rating five hours a day and PvPing as well which was you know some things never change I guess yeah that's how it goes so are you do you mind me asking how old are you I'm 29 right now so so you were like basically a beginning of high school then basically yeah like mid teams around when classic came out it's kind of like the P I think that's like the peak age for like you still have your like young like reaction time and then you're like you don't have any like real responsibilities either but you still have school but other than that it's just like yeah just play games you know do you uh another another do you mind me asking question do you mind telling do you make classic content full-time or do you have another job that you I actually started full time about a month before I got into the beta up until then it was all just congratulations wow that's awesome man no thank you hey it was just you know just a circumstantial thing I always kind of wanted to try it and I found myself out of a job so I tried it from then and it's been going pretty well so far I really can't complain yeah that's awesome which means you're in the perfect position to no life classic wow yeah there you go maybe I just planned it 20 20 days dude 20 days yeah 2-0 it's awesome really really exciting there's less just real quick there's less time between now and classic launch than there was between now and the beta ending that's crazy really yeah that's that's pretty crazy to think about the closer we get the worse the way to yeah well you know what why don't we go around and talk about what the four of us are doing to like prepare or plan for classic well what are you guys doing that's a good idea so yeah so here's my situation right now is I my who was going to be my raid leader and main tank here's how I here's how I run a guild right I like like if I'm guild leader I like to have somebody else to raid lead with me as opposed to just me being the only guy raid leading I've done it both ways and I think having a second guy like like an assistant to the regional manager to kind of help you out and kind of keep the pace of the raid like okay hey assistant regional manager well it's he is assistant to it's just he does it's a different thing it's a totally different thing but yeah it's just a different thing so you have this guy you have your raid leader and he kind of keeps the pace of the raid and it's like okay I'm pulling pulling pulling whatever okay we get to a boss okay I might help explain it a little bit better or whatever or if we make any certain decisions like okay we're gonna go with this strategy or that strategy or anything weird that comes up in raid like I would more so take part in that kind of decision making who I was gonna have do that and main tank I like it being main tank as well or like our main DPS tank or TPS tank as well he had kind of some life stuff happen and he's not gonna be able to play classic the way that he thought he was gonna be able to play it so we're gonna have to get somebody else so so right now I'm kind of poking around and seeing who I'm gonna get to do that and from there it's just kind of like working through guild applications and stuff I'm gonna let I'm gonna let people know in my discord hey I've looked at applications if I've contacted you then we'll interview or talk to you about potentially like joining as like for like a main Raider spot as far as socials and stuff goes that'll kind of come later on closer to release even but I kind of just want to focus on getting the main Raiders in first and even then I don't know about you guys but I think you should over recruit because you don't know who's gonna last right something might come up something might happen and then you kind of when you have your first 40 people ready to go that's that's your raid team and those are the guys who get like the first shot and then you can kind of work from there how do you guys feel about that 100% on the over recruiting thing always over recruit there are people right now that are sitting in this stream watching that think they're gonna play classic wow crazy but then something you know tomorrow they get a phone call with a big promotion or you know their girlfriend is pregnant or you know their boyfriend is pregnant in 2019 so like you don't really you don't really know what's gonna happen and people always you know drop off between you know now and launch and then after launch you got a level to 60 and there's always something that comes up maybe some you know you think you do but you don't situation happens with some people so I definitely agree over recruit at least 20 30% have some backups there for sure yeah absolutely I mean I'm going in with like maybe 120 people that think they want to be a trial for the main raid team yeah I'll talk about like myself we're doing I'm leading my own guild so we're all gonna be on the same server we're gonna be on a on the streamer server as fun tips out as man Matt season will be there I hope I mean he'll be an S1 skill so it I think is gonna be there so a lot of people might want to plan the server a lot of people might want to completely avoid this server I can't blame you either way but I'm gonna be leading a guild we're going for it for a Sony will be there yeah absolutely a lot of people are going to be there we're going for a 12-day ragnaros that's our plan and so preparing for that I was talking to Matt season about this before we went live like I'm making a bunch of videos to drop once I'm leveling like once class goes out so I can keep releasing videos as as I'm game and I know Matt season to it I'm sure we're all doing the same thing oh yeah I've been in my editing dungeon 10 to 12 hours a day just just working on videos occasionally leaving the house but speaking more of that guild stuff I like that's like one of the reasons why I just want to join a guild like people ask me all the time like will you make a guild I'm just like hell no that's leading a guild as you guys I know I'm sure it's just a ton of work just so much management and you know getting into things like such as DKP loot council all the drama that goes with that so I believe that to you guys I'll just join your guild yeah there's a there's a lot there's a whole lot that goes into like guild management just creating a guild managing a guild everything that goes into it is is way more than I think people expect initially I've always felt that way like I had like I led kind of like a small guild in Burning Crusade for a little bit when I was younger and we merged into another guild and then I I ended up becoming guild leader of the guild I was in on private servers I was basically it was rate three right there was like some weird drama we were part of another guild we ended up breaking off from that guild and then eventually I became raid leader guild leader of that guild that broke off and it was good right but there's some things and the guild that I want to run is kind of gonna be in the same vein but there's some things that were kind of out of my control some things that were different because I wasn't leading the guild from the beginning so it's like you have certain processes and certain like attitudes of just these are this is how we do things this is how this happens is how that happens and people just kind of get used to it and they get into a rhythm and then it gets really hard to change those habits whenever the guild has existed for you know three four five months before you become the guild leader so yeah let's that's kind of how I feel about that like I'll kind of move off of that I'll move from there I saw Rick and chat said the difficulty of leading a guild totally depends on your roster hundred percent like if you move a bunch of annoying drama you loot crazy people like yeah it becomes a lot more difficult but it's also a lot more fun right yeah I think like go ahead go ahead dips well I was just gonna say like kind of my plan so if you have something that I don't know yeah go ahead go ahead and talk about a little bit more in a second but go ahead yeah um yeah I mean personally with with classic around the corner so we had we just had we just had a guild merger actually my guild merged with Nick skilled and we're kind of we're kind of deciding to take things a little bit we always planned on going a little bit you know hard just spending a lot of time in the game but we're gonna try to take things a little bit to the next level but we'll see how it goes I completely agree with you as fan on just like guild management taking so much time especially when you're streaming when you're making videos and stuff like that it can be really really hard to effectively lead a guild while at the same time fulfilling other obligations as well so it just like everything from like you know responsibilities who's who's gonna speck into improved battleshout who's gonna speck into improve renew who's gonna you know who's okay hydroxying who's which majors are gonna get there first how quickly can we get the rep like if you really want to push it to the max level possible if to organize every little thing okay who's gonna be the you know the moon polymorph mage who's gonna be the star polymorph mage stuff like that so so it definitely takes a lot of time but but at the end of the day I mean in terms of plans veg out 24 hours a day seven days a week all day every day like I've been I've been hitting the gym these past like this past a month like crazy just so in classic launches I don't die of cardiac arrest that's like the literal sole purpose like like yeah just just to be able to sit in this chair all day every day yeah yeah I've been working out again too recently I finally have kind of gotten over like my elbow pain and stuff like that and I started working out again but I'm I feel like once classic comes out like we're just gonna lose it I don't know it's something kind of kind of worried but whatever yeah I posted a picture to Twitter today just because I'm like okay this is like I'm never gonna see this for a while again so might as well preserve you know the body right yeah I think I don't know I think it's kind of interesting like how much everybody's just gonna like degenerate until then yeah I started my generation process I started degenerating two years ago because I knew I was just gonna lose it when classic came out so I was like screw dude old-stay safe old-stay safe hands old-stay safe got you hyper actually so I kind of want to talk about this a little bit just to be touched on it is like NA guilds versus EU guilds how I swear the the amount of like not not everywhere I ran an NA guild of course my guild not not everybody was was so bad in it but like you would just randomly have these people that would just like find ways to make a problem out of something that is not even an issue complain about this piece or that piece yeah it's just like it would absolutely blow my mind and it's like dude it doesn't matter like everybody's gonna get like the pieces they need eventually just show up to raid and do your job and like all that stuff right that's how that's how I would approach it and well here's the thing especially an R guild and I'm gonna run my guild very similar build my guild very similar raid roster very similarly where it's a very even split that is not at all the most efficient way to raid if I'm trying to speed run or do something a little bit more hardcore like stay safe would be doing right I I wouldn't try and basically have why wouldn't have a ret paladin probably that's that's for one which is gonna be me but but also from there like we had like we used like a rule of four like we typically had like four of everything so that way whenever something dropped it would go somewhere like a hardcore how many druids are you gonna run stay safe you know we're gonna have three action we're gonna have a boomkin a feral and one rest okay so yeah like typically again the past like people would go with like one one boomkin or sorry one one druid right and then what happens is like there's a there's druid gear that drops and then you end up having way too much of it and gets wasted where for us and then you might have like eight fury warriors or something where for us we had like four fury warriors so all of our warriors ended up getting stacked like we had a guy in our guild his name was Duggar Duggar within eight days got I believe I believe he got onslaught girdle cruel shirook and doomsedge he got he got that all within eight days which is like big yeah that's a really big for a warrior so so yeah he I mean we had guys who they would join the guild and they would get totally stacked because in such a short amount of time or sorry because we had so few people in each type of class that it would be easy to gear out new people and stuff which it worked out for me too right because I play a rep paladin I would share a lot of loot with like warriors and rogues and this and that so people like outside of the guild be like oh S fan just takes all the loot for himself like no I don't but like everybody's geared it's just that that's just how the guild works right but yeah I've heard with EU guilds kind of back to the original point with EU guilds especially like the hardcore guilds for example with like salad makers if Ladi is like Ladi wants this okay Ladi Pryo I'm taking it nobody complains you know like it's just like the EU guilds like the guild leader says hey I want this I'm the guild leader like I do all this stuff if one thing he takes it nobody complains right now that there wasn't a situation where that would happen so much in our guild it would it be more so like hey we're gonna give this to this guy or we're gonna give it to that guy and then somebody else oh well you know I did this this is like no like you're gonna get it eventually don't worry like we're balancing it out you're first on the list for that item and this it's just like you're handling like preschool or sometimes and it blows my mind so yeah it is what it is it's just I just think it's very funny like the NA versus EU attitude at least on private service it was like that I think you have to have like a zero tolerance approach to stuff like that because once you tolerate one person coming up to raid and like especially if it's happening mid-raid if someone is mid-raid in voice check and planning my loot about loot like that just looks really bad that opens the door for everyone else yeah I think I think EU I don't know what it is but I even noticed this at like the method world first race like if you guys were watching the streams like the way limit did their raids is so different from how like method did their raids and you know both sides you know each way is like there's no better way right there they're both work or whatever but one thing I've noticed about EU specifically I think you respect like hierarchy a lot more and when I talked to a lot of EU players like top EU players and like the vanilla scene like the way they talk about their officers or their guild leaders is like very much in like high regard and they're willing to like respect like their decisions and like work as a unit versus NA it's just like memes all the time which again there's nothing wrong with them it's each side has their kind of their own approach but I think that like culturally I think EU general generally speaking they're a little bit more like disciplined in that regard yeah it's a if I may it's it is totally like a cultural thing like here in America right we we're not afraid to speak our minds if we think something's wrong so even in pixels even we extend that even to the virtual world damn it think like yeah I mean with like the method race right kind of calling back on that I don't just like I'd like I'd like that I felt like nobody cared you know like I mean obviously the kid they care about one thing what they care about killing boss that's that's all I cared about right killing boss getting world first all that stuff right they don't care about I'm in the raid I'm not right I'm benched whatever I really like that progress first yeah like I really like that like kind of focusing on the progress and stuff like that hello hello hello hello can you guys hear me hello hey hey yeah anyway like American Raiders they're a bunch of like freedom loving rebels and that's what it comes down to you know like it's exactly what Mad season says if they have a problem they're gonna speak their mind they're gonna throw that tea over the boat into the water and that's like even if it means that that boat sinks so that all the tea goes away like you know you got to do you got to do what you yeah exactly okay so we talked a little bit about beta you you played a warlock but I was just kind of like a one-off thing you're gonna play you're gonna play a warrior most people know by now I mean this might be the first time you're watching classic cast but but I think most people watching kind of know by now I play Retribution Paladin tips also plays a warrior stay safe plays a warlock oh wait that's so interesting so you've played every class that that we play I just realized man yeah yeah I guess warrior warlock pretty much and Paladin first character so yeah Paladin had a very basic level so I mean I didn't get really too much into that so so don't count yourself out okay because the question I'm gonna ask you is which one of these three classes has the highest skill cap man paladin oh good answer don't coach him just let him speak here okay in terms of PvE or PvP well like the answer is the same okay because you're asking the question I'm gonna say warlock what how this is why Matt season is the most respected classic well dude you literally fear and dream what he's talking about AFK class okay look we can move on no hold on every press is more buttons every paladin or warlock paladin seal it and versus shadow bolt no it no listen I cast my blood like blessing of might blessing of wisdom blessing there's so many blessings you know there's different seals maybe seal of wisdom seal of light you have to have charisma so that's an intangible thing that you have to add into your gameplay having like four blessings and you guys even made an add-on to auto blessing people no you couldn't even handle that yeah but the add-on sucks I don't even use it okay yeah I don't even use it sometimes I use it for raids I use it I use it all the time so anyway look paladin I don't want to get into this now this is offensive to me yeah no so no it is again it's it's I think it's just interesting right want to be look at like different perspectives of playing different classes than that like obviously I like I like paladin the most right I think I goes you know everybody knows that right you know it's like how do you know somebody plays a rep paladin don't worry they're like vegans they'll tell you so yeah it's just it's just one of those things I think kind of with you you know you're you're wanted DPS you did all this stuff whenever you played paladin did you play like pre like you played like that was your first character so then you went from that to row and yep you said you were red did you go Rhett and raids to get blessing of Kings and you just like you you King's to everybody you're giving me a bit too much credit I had no idea what I was doing I leveled is holy until like level 45 it's one-handed holy because I was looking through the talent trees and I saw holy shock at the 41 point at level 10 it was like wow this is like 300 damage that's so much damage I'm gonna go down there you know not realizing that it's it's in you know 40 30 levels I guess nice and I only realized like mid 40s I think that wait a second this isn't the damage tree and I switched to retribution and I got seal a command and I saw the light both you know literally and metaphorically and I didn't turn back from there as far as my spec is concerned I couldn't even tell you I just I just probably put points in randomly I didn't look at any guides or anything yeah again I threw out like three hills parade per boss fight and then out that was done I was the out of combat reservoir you guys remember that I did that I did that too I remember that not to put you down but with my guild at least them the most useless person was put as on the combat reservoir so that was again once again I was that guy yes I remember I remember doing this is I was on Illidan before I transferred Kel'thuzad and I I don't know what guild I was in at the time I was kind of just doing this random run and because that's a very social raider like I guild hopped I did this I did that I had friends in different guilds and stuff like that but I remember I was ret for Blessing of Kings but I would I back before they reworked the ret the Paladin talents deep holy was a damage tree it didn't make any sense and the top of holy was all the healing talents so people could go deep ret get Kings and then they would get all the best healing talents in the top of ret or top of holy so that's what I did at Kings and then I had like healing light and all the stuff like bonus holy light stuff so I had all that so I would Kings everybody out of combat res and I would just sit wearing like intellect gear and heal so it's funny how different the game is now like whenever you look at especially the private server scene and kind of like what people have done there it's just very like min maxi and everybody's trying to play hardcore and not everybody right but but you have like a select group of people that are like that back in the day people like there were so many people that were totally clueless right and like out of combat resin got nerfed eventually right they made it to where whenever somebody pulled something like everybody gets in combat if somebody pulled the boss or whatever it's funny well yeah I was gonna say it's funny you mentioned out of combat resin because when we killed it was an eight-hour mord on run we had a killing princess there dross on the beta we were level 40 she's level 51 it took us like killing her the that encounter itself took us like 40 minutes yeah we had a priest DJ penguin stand outside and out of combat resin he raised he raised people he was two people during that 40 minute engagement so I don't know I I wonder I remember them nerfing it but I wonder if they just nerfed it for raids instead of nerfing it for dungeons too maybe I don't know maybe but you're absolutely right I can't hear you again I think you're I think you're I think Stacy your noise gate on discord is set like really low or really high nope we want to hear the breathing did oh my bad I was hitting tab instead of cap sock which is my push to talk yeah anyway my bad but yeah we had a we had a combat wizard DJ penguin and we it works very well but yeah about the raid thing like that's something we're not gonna know until you try to do it in classic for release right because you couldn't have tested that they're in the yeah I mean hopefully that's that was poised for not again we can't hear again stay safe we're talking about raids right we had no raid testing happened dude I would have liked to I mean I don't know they wouldn't do it because of hype stuff they wouldn't want to get rid of hype or anything like that in terms of because that was one of the big concerns with the beta is like it's the beta going to kill hype I don't necessarily think the beta is gonna have its own hype because it's so different in the actual release of the game maybe for some people who had a very mild interesting classic and maybe got rid of the hype for some of those guys but generally speaking I don't think it was that big of a deal and the important thing is testing I think they made so much progress of the beta going through and testing all the little things and getting so much like good feedback yeah I mean there's there's an argument to be had there for sure like in terms of hype because because they didn't raid test or do anything everyone just got locked to 40 which that itself killed a lot of the hype as you know right so the argument against that is if they tested the raids then that would have destroyed hype as well because you're showing off too much of the game I've kind of have been half on it I do agree that I mean you know the game is you know over a decade old everyone has seen it already but there's just that aspect of you know not including private servers people being able to play it for the first time again I'm sure there's many in Chad right now so I tend to agree with that but I think just the way that the beta turned out maybe it would have been better to increase the level cap and do raid testing because things just stagnated so much right because we were at level 40 for I think like a month or so I don't really I I do think that so what happened was the beta came out and we were level 30 camp for three weeks and then they bumped it up to 40 I was hoping that at the three week mark for level 40 they would give us you know two or three weeks of level 50 obviously they chose not to do that I think because it would have overlapped with the eight with BFA patch 8.2 release they didn't want to have like that hype squelched a little bit I think going to 50 it would have been a really good idea I think anything 50 plus like when you're level 60 which is you know where you're going to spend 90 percent of your classic gameplay time at 60 everything 50 plus are going to be doing very very regularly right so I think there's less of a stress to test that because like I think they can internally test that I think it's gonna get like play tested as the game is going on I also think that like because that's we're gonna spend most your time I think having players test that on the beta would have killed hype for that stuff as well I think I think testing the raids would have been a bad move I think that really really would have killed hype and I guess they said in that blue post that they're having internal raid testers take care of that so hopefully that's true yeah I mean I've got a like I've got to agree with with most of the states have just said but to be honest like I've been thinking about it the past couple of days I kind of like that they didn't go to 50 in the end like dirt when it was out I was like dude why don't they just raise the level cap but now when you think about it like have they raised it to 50 we would have done BRD we would have done to hell we probably would have would have progressed mostly through LBRS I'm sure somebody would have killed final boss in LBRS like it would have basically all the dungeons in the game or closed all the dungeons in the game would have been either cleared or partially cleared and that would have just been like you know again it would detract from the hype like I don't know how you guys feel but I'm freaking hype right now like last night we were practicing like for like eight nine hours dude like I was convulsing with how hyped I am and like I can't even sit here like I want to I just want to freaking get up I'm so restless right now just because I can't handle it you know like I'm so freaking hyped and I feel like the way they did the beta the fact that we're still hyped as a testament to like you know beta being successful overall I think like I think any more than what they did even though at the time I was like why don't they raise the level cap any more than what they did would have been a little bit too much I think capping out of 40 was was just fine dude you want to know how pathetic I am with the hype right now I have my own private server where that is for footage that only I can connect to I was doing drills last night of creating my character as fast as possible for the name reservations hair hair skin color okay nice I can get down under 15 seconds that time I did that a little bit on the beta cuz my character has a look like it's come the complete and total character immersion like how are you supposed to be good at the game if you don't look like your character yeah exactly that's how it works like I don't even understand like obviously like I look I like my character looks like me stays his character looks like him like it just it goes without saying like everybody knows you know that is how you become you know what it's funny to say that dude today I said a sub goal before a classic comes out I said if we hit the sub goal I will dye my hair pink for total character there you go so maybe a total that's what it's all about so yeah I think it looked good I think pink hair would look good on you to be honest yeah also I just want to clarify part of the deal was that I wouldn't wear a hat 1 to 60 also so you would you would be able to know about the lady parts he's talking about the pigtails that's just the pink hair oh okay now you know what's funny stay safe came visit Austin well actually this is before I live down here so stay they came visit Texas we drove down to Austin this was last year sometime and we bought a wig we were at the wig store the costume I don't know what it is costume shop and there was literally a pink do you have it on you stay safe it's downstairs I'm not gonna get it why is it why is it not at your desk I haven't worn that in a very long time I'm saving it for a special moment but yeah I bought I bought a pink pigtail but yeah pink yeah so it was really funny because we saw the thing we're like dude this looks literally just like stay safe characters here so yeah we are we we convinced stay safe to buy it he did and it was the best purchase of your life you said that's give her $60 it was it was a way to spend $60 yeah so pretty good pretty good pretty good was there anything Matt season that you were particularly surprised by whenever later just from your beta experience was there anything that just told you three for a loop just out of that feel you like I didn't expect this right and I didn't know about this or something like that inside of the game I'm can't really say too much that really like threw me for a loop outside of the game like as far as my streams were concerned I hadn't imagined the turnout that I got and shout outs to anyone in chat who who checked it out but I mean I never streamed for like you know Jesus like five years and then I I got into the beta then it was really big turnouts for me so very appreciative for that but in game though hmm I think the events I didn't expect that many events to go on and in and how successful they were in a it's such a low level beta like the the dueling turn I didn't I didn't realize how much I didn't okay I think that's something I didn't realize how much I didn't enjoy the level 40 meta right yeah as far as PvP is concerned and all that stuff so I guess that surprised me quite a bit and you know the dueling tournaments by tips out and as fans mm-hmm yeah it's been it was it was really really cool to kind of see how everybody was so excited for the tournaments and stuff like that I we've talked to the tournaments were good they I was they're they're super entertaining like seriously hats off to you like I was glued to my computer I even masturbate that day was great yeah we've said this we've said this multiple times either on our own streams I think we've said this on class gas before but the concept of tournament realms and stuff I really really hope Blizzard considers making like tournament realms and stuff but I don't think they should always be open necessarily like maybe I don't I haven't really fully thought it out but I think having a place for us to be able to like conduct tournaments and stuff like that where people can go and like like host a dueling term or something any sort of community-driven event it doesn't have to be streamers like that's the thing like it's any you can have people in the community and have like a community driven event or something like that hey we're gonna go on the dueling server and you can pick from these items from you know phase three or whatever like it doesn't I guess it does matter right but it's it's not to that point yet on like what the specific rules and this and that or yeah but just having a tournament server I think would be so good I think it'd be so fun I think it'd be fun for community I think it'd be fun for even if it's open just a little bit of the time I think it'd be fun for stream yeah I think like the way to do it if they were gonna do it would be to offer a tournament realm for like two or three weeks maybe two weeks at the very end of each phase yeah you have like six phases of tournament realms and it's a limited time I think it's scarcity makes it more desirable I think that'd be the way yeah no changes well it's not even well just just to talk about that that's not even first off it's not even related to like has nothing to do with like the no changes sort of thing right and we've already talked about we've talked about like the no changes thing it's it's a lot of it is very me me right but there's already a number of things that have happened right like there there's your you have patch 1.12 everything character balance itemization all the all the class updates everything like that is in and then there what's happening is like let's say you're in phase one you're getting the 1.12 version the phase six version of phase one content in phase one so this means like everything's post-nerf in this and that and who knows I've been kind of like I don't even think you have to make that comparison in order to advocate tournament realms the thing with the tournament realms they have no impact at all on the live game whatsoever they're there for two weeks oh yeah secondary thing and the point is it's a way that the community can get together and have cool everyone says community community community this is a way to community not streamers streamers and just random community members they can have community events with prize pools and get together you can play with people in different realms it'd be a it would be a phenomenal community thing absolutely right now what I was talking about more so is is like another thing not necessarily just about the tournament realms I'm talking more so about like I kind of feel like a crazy old man like like y2k kind of crazy old man whenever I talk about this because then I but I acknowledge that it might end up not being that bad it might not end up being that big of a deal but whenever you're giving like you're basically your characters player effectiveness increased boss strength is reduced in phase one based on like compared to like what patch 1.2 would have been back in the day so and that's that's just purely from game factors that's not has nothing to do with players are better now everybody has better internet everybody has better computers the client runs better has nothing to do with that right but what I'm saying is that's that's just how the game is now based on how how like the design decisions that they've decided to make getting to this point so they're like that's that's one of the things I'm concerned about again they have internal testing all the stuff hopefully it ends up not being that bad and I'm and I'm I don't know that's talking specifically about having one 12 talents in phase one right well yeah kind of but but it's it's more so everything right the itemization everything I don't think just one thing is that big of a deal but I think the combination of everything it's it's a little bit concerning to me if you have post nerf bosses and buffed players does that make sense yeah I mean like speaking speaking obviously this itemization is just but speaking to the 12 talent trees I mean like some some classes saw talent tree nerfs some classes saw talent rebuffs no one know like literally no one knows unless you're Blizzard and can do damage and healing and TPS testing with 1.1 trees versus 112 trees no one knows the extent to which 112 trees makes content easier or harder no one knows so it's it's total speculation it's it's 100% pure speculation I'm just concerned that that it might be a little bit too easy or and here's thing it's not gonna make a difference for the one for the 1% right it's not gonna make a difference for the 1% what it is gonna make a difference for potentially if it works out the way that that I'm I'm personally worried about is that big chunk of like the the middle like typical player base because if it's the 1% is gonna clear the rays the first day anyway they're gonna go in there they're gonna be 100% prepared speed run whatever that type of guild they're gonna be just fine regardless now the typical guild if it's if the content is too easy for them and I don't think it's too easy inherently I think what might make it too easy is the fact that all the players are stronger now based on the design decisions they've made and the rays are weaker based on the design decisions that they've made right it's again just speculation that is just what I'm worried about that the typical player base is gonna find it too easy it's not gonna you're not really gonna feel as much of a challenge and have an overcome and actually work for everything that you would normally so yeah mad season you you got through at least a couple of bosses and acts back in the day can you recall I know it's been a long time but can you recall like the difficulty and like in terms of the challenge back then did you guys have like overwhelming difficulty were they overwhelming challenges especially compared to retail out today you played a lot you played some of later expansions how do you feel about difficulty then versus difficulty now well like you said it has been quite a while for me and as far as the current game is concerned the most I'll do is like heroic which I think is isn't too bad I think real you know mythic is where the real challenge lies but talking about classic it was extremely difficult not just because the bosses were difficult and next Rammus it's just we always you know it was during a period where the burning crusade was releasing there's members cycling in and out we had to regear everyone over and over and over again we never had like a dedicated roster people are getting burnt out they're getting frustrated so I think you know just I think we also have to take a look not just like you know boss health boss armor difficulty talents and that I think it's also important to look at you know just external stuff such as guilds imploding on themselves but going past that next Rammus was tough it broke a lot of us certainly a lot of a lot of people who are rating since what when I joined the guild which would have been probably around mid-2005 stopped at next Rammus because you know we're in a Q40 we we brick wall deck Kathun months and months of trying him couldn't beat him went to next Rammus where we get like you know three bosses spider wing and maybe one of each of the other ones it was extremely difficult for my guild again I was on CAD gar we weren't really the best of the best I'd say like by today's standards we would be you know you said earlier like a hardcore guild and like an average guild right I say would probably be an average guild these days we had some people who are pretty good back then but you know by today's standards were probably pretty average yeah to answer your question though compared to the current game it's it's kind of tough for me because I don't do the hardest difficulty in the current game and it has been 12 years but I I would say I had a tougher time with next Rammus personally and not just you know straight up boss difficulty as well the things you wouldn't expect when next Rammus first released there are plenty of bugs and a lot of people forget about this one bug in particular was with the Anubarak or is it a new Brickon in the spider wing I forget a new Brickon I was gonna confuse you I think it's a new Brickon okay well he had an issue he would knock it hopefully this isn't getting too off topic but involves urine and it's a funny story so I want to talk about it please do not he would knock tanks up into the air as part of his mechanics and you tank swap at that point what would typically happen is he would evade because he would be locked to the first tank he can't attack them and he evades back to full health there's one time where we fought that boss it was like I'm not sure what is in rage time race but it felt like forever one of our healers urinated himself because just went on forever and forever but we got the kill so it wasn't for nothing so as far as difficulty is concerned it was very difficult in more ways than one he had to buy a new pair of pants and I'm not making that up too a lot of people think I'm making that up it's absolutely true it was hardcore man dude that's amazing anything for the purpose did I okay I I don't think it's crazy to if you rated in in World of Warcraft at some point in time if you had a bottle next to your computer you know just in case you couldn't AFK I I don't I don't think it's insane like I don't know I yeah one time diapers bottles whatever you can do I was at my I went back to visit my parents house and I was looking through my old stuff and I was I was looking at like Pokemon cards Dragon Ball Z cards and I actually found a bot you know what actually I'm not gonna tell the rest of the story yeah so moving on yeah moving on no it's fine yeah moving on so in a little bit guys real quick if you haven't already if you if you haven't already please go ahead and follow tips out baby stay safe TV go follow to its channels of course follow mad season as well mad season show and check out the YouTube channels as well Twitter all that stuff everything is there on the on the screen so make sure you guys do that if you haven't already and we do want to do a little bit of Q&A soon too so in a little bit we'll go on to Q&A and in Q&A we'll start with Twitter right so if you guys want to tweet at us hashtag classic cast we'll look at we'll look at we'll look at some questions on Twitter and we might take some questions from Chad as well so so yeah well it was that in a little bit not quite yet now let's talk a little bit about and this is a little bit early and I don't want to get too much into this discussion but I feel like people are already talking about I feel like people are already talking about what's gonna happen after classic and oh yeah burning crusade rather Lich King did you have a favorite period of time in the game that wasn't classic or was classic your favorite period of time I just told to stay safe this earlier actually before we started to read the classic was my favorite my favorite expansion was wrath of the Lich King and it's not necessarily for like if you're wondering why it's not really for like the content I guess well it is for the content of course but another big factory the factor again is the community aspect mm-hmm yeah I think I think that's one of the things that you just kind of slowly saw like move out of the game more and more and we get muted no oh then Matt season disconnect Matt season yeah oh I think you might disconnect it sounded like he stopped kind of abruptly but yeah he might have his internet might have gone out or something well it's okay I mean I'll go and continue with what I was saying was cams frozen no cameras not frozen wait did I disconnect test did discord die I think discord disconnect I think discord went out let's try this one more time uh testing testing here let me let me change the server real quick are we good can you hear me here one second do we get testing okay we're good we're good we're back no no we're back I think I think that we were using us south server and sometimes you I could hear you guys but I couldn't talk I guess it was weird that was strange now we're using Western Europe server works well yeah now we're using Western Europe so Western Europe server works well and US South does not for some reason see it's what I'm saying dude NA discord servers are just I don't know what the deal is but uh yeah anyway continuing on I definitely think that the community aspect of the game was it definitely they hit whenever you went on from from the original game burning crusade wrath and so on that that's how I felt personally yeah in terms of not only there being systems and things in the game that naturally kept you engaged with other players that you were already like familiar with but also putting you in situations where you had to meet new people or you had to make new friends and stuff like that I think stuff like LFR and dungeon finder and these things they don't really do you any good and one of the this blows my mind to the greatest extent like I I have had streams where I have the people like I got Siege of Baralas plus 10 is like a meme on my channel because because on BFA launch I I did it literally took me like three hours to kill the last boss of Siege of Baralas plus 10 because somebody got mad because we wiped on the first attempt and left the raid or left the group right and I was like no we are we are going to format this we are not going to give up no matter what and what happened at the time because it was the expansion was brand new if you made any single mistake basically the group if any one of the four people left in the group made a mistake they died and if they die then you're three man again and you just you can't do it right so we did it over and over again and I was like I I'm not going to give up on this this is like so dumb I like maybe it was me being a little bit stubborn and just disliking this whole like instant gratification if I don't get something my way right away then I'm not going to deal with it I'm going to leave I'm going to kick somebody out of the group I don't know have you guys experienced this in retail wow like where it's just like people like they they're they're so quick to get rid of somebody because they can just get somebody at the drop of a hat and it's so annoying like I think it's so inherently wrong whereas in classic burning crusade this kind of stuff it was difficult it took some time to get a new person so you didn't want to get rid of that person because it's like dude if we if we get rid of this guy it's going to be so hard to replace him we got to go back to town we got to go to trade chat whatever you know private servers we had slash join world we were in world chat that's I mean I'm sure that's still going to happen in classic but regardless like that person if you even if even if you're in world chat that person has to come to the group if you don't have a if you don't have a warlock you can't summon him it's a whole list of things that you have to deal with that in retail wow it's just just like that it's it I don't know if it's like a social like we live in 2019 everybody's swiping right and left on their dating apps if it's like the same sort of mentality I don't know I sound I'm a boomer I sound like crazy old man right now but it's one of those things out of partner yeah out of partner but it just sounds like one of those things that it just seems like one of those things that that the game really really lost over the years and that's what I'm excited to see again people learn to overcome adversity work together make friends like some of the best relationships I've made have been forged through adversity whether it's in game or in real life yeah I mean I I don't think that like human behavior has changed in the last 15 years I don't think that's it at all I think it's just that the way that the game has incentivized rewarded interaction and teamwork has changed right so you know in BFA you spend three hours with four three other people who you probably know to this day like you still probably remember their names because you struggled with them for three or four hours right you really didn't get any benefit to doing that right in fact the game probably the game when you think about it whatever rewarded you for leaving that and joining a different group which is which is the unfortunate reality you're just incentivized differently yeah exactly and it was one of the reasons why like there there was a point in retail wow where things were actually going to go back in the vanilla direction I don't know if you guys played like early cataclysm but early cataclysm those first two months was like like in my opinion it saved world of warcraft for a tentative time period until they ultimately decided to backtrack and double down on their double down on the casualization but like early cataclysm like the first week or even the first couple of days of cataclysm launched the heroics were so quote-unquote hard that the looking for dungeon tool even though it was already out in the game and people have been using it for like a year and during like ICC days it nobody used it it wasn't worth doing it because you would have to spend an hour queuing up and then you would get into the dungeon group and because the dungeons were tuned a little bit higher or much higher I would say than the wrath heroics somebody would mess up and you know like you could get kicked or the group would just fall apart so there's no reason to queue up whatsoever you literally just made pre-made groups and it made the community on your servers so much stronger just for those first couple of months but supposedly that ended up in subs you know going down or whatever and by that point people had gone so used to the instance gratification and the wrath baby movement and stuff that Blizzard ended up reversing things but like it's a great example of if you change how the game rewards behavior the player base will change too and like literally overnight like I don't remember queuing at all at all in cataclysm for dungeons it was just always trade chat spam always well it's funny like there was even one instance of that in uh in wrath at the end of wrath even with Dungeon Finder there was one dungeon in wrath that if you queued into this everyone left immediately and it's not Oculus uh actually it was halls of reflection remember this if you queued halls of reflection in Dungeon Finder the dungeon was so hard and annoying people just left immediately yeah it was so annoying and then obviously with cat you're totally right but yeah like it's a mix of this like tinder style wow where you just have like very fleeting low communication meetings with other players and also the content that you queue into being incredibly easy yeah it's I mean you guys hit it right on the head it's it's a combination of many things it's a combination of just being able to cycle people in and out with the click of a button in terms of dungeon finder and not only that but no ramifications for you know doing it so quickly uh you know with cross realm zoning and all this cross realm stuff you know you never see the same person twice it seems so it's not like okay that guy acted like a dick we're gonna avoid him I'm not gonna group with him again like you had with classic with you know no no group fight or no uh cross realm zoning and whatnot right and you know it's just a combination of that and just the content being the base level content being easier in general with like dungeons and whatnot like dungeons are you could face roll at this point you could roll your face on the keyboard and you would eventually defeat it so if someone does mess up and it's really really hard to mess up you can rest assured that they're gonna get kicked they're probably gonna be abused because again there's really no ramifications for it and in my opinion and uh I guess that's all I have to say about that yeah you're totally right I mean let's say in vanilla wow let's say you're you do a dungeon and like you you know you spend a half hour trying to find people in trade chat to do black rock depths and then you get in the dungeon group and you're a total asshole and you decide you're gonna ninja pull the boss and then bubble hearth out right those four other people in your group they're gonna hate you like they're gonna remember your name they're probably gonna contact your GM and tell you yo uh tell the GM yo this guy was an asshole there might even go in trade chat and say yo this guy's an asshole don't group with this guy they might even go in the forums and say yo this guy's an asshole don't group with this guy in BFA if you behave in a similar way in a dungeon finder or a group finder or a raid finder whatever like you might get kicked out you might get a vote kicked but you just queue another one it literally has zero consequence yeah it's uh it's pretty annoying and we could talk about this all day right i think this is one of those uh this is a boomer conversation but i guess it's just like this is one of those things that that'll it'll go on in circles yeah back in my day i mean i remember when World of Warcraft was hard it's like okay dude it's still hard that's another thing that's really funny is like people people act like retail wow people act like retail wow is is really easy right or i and i don't think and i've said this so many times retail wow mechanically is it's very difficult right at the highest level right the problem is is that they have four different raid difficulties and stuff like that so people go in and they feel like oh like this game is for casual this game's easy now it's like well no like you did it on lfr you did it on normal right it's to me like wow it shouldn't be it shouldn't be a game where you can go in and yeah and basically like have these different difficulties there's there's some mystique to being able to complete the raids it should be special and people still talk about how there were so few guilds that killed or the cleared naks and so few people that even went inside of naks that it just ends up being this like totally crazy mysterious place right it's like oh dude naks raider like pog you right like it's like oh that's amazing so i don't know and even then like in the grand scheme of things naks wasn't harder back then than any in any raid right now it's just that there's there's an added level of like just value i guess to the raid it makes it that much more special whenever you not everybody can go in there and do it you know what i mean yeah yeah i go ahead no no please go ahead man well it kind of takes you out of the world right it's in in classic again not to go like boomer mode here but you know naks ramus is naks ramus you don't have naks ramus elafar you don't have naks ramus normally you don't have naks ramus heroic and mythic i guess you had no i guess wrath didn't even have naks ramus heroic let's start with trial of the crusader right it really takes away like these raids are a big thing pre wrath of the lich king i guess and to go in there and clear it was a big deal and i think really you know it's not everyone needs to be raiding you know people who put in five hours a week and then they take you know four months to hit level 60 or whatever the cap is for the expansion like the right i don't i don't think that's really like everyone is entitled to raid really and i think like those people are perfectly fine without raiding you know i think uh kevin jordan has made this point quite a bit so i'm going to steal this from him but like that weekend warrior is what he calls him is perfectly content with not raiding yeah and i think like a lot of these changes like elafar were made for those players in mind right it's not enough people are raiding let's get them in there it's it's you know he only plays five ten hours a week on the weekends we need to get him to see this raid content and i think it really kind of takes away from you know the the levels of difficulty that you can challenge yourself within the game and try not to sound like as elitist as i can because uh i think it's it's more than that right and again as far as like having four difficulties is concerned that's not even getting to like burn out and and put the current game with like titan forging and stuff i mean with titan forging you really run these raids like you know four times uh if you're really hardcore and maybe not elafar i'm not sure about that these days but um it's it's it's definitely an issue and again that's not to say that like the current game is easier i mean it's just step into mythic mode and tell me the current game is easier look at all these raid mechanics and tell me like what's more complex luciferan or you know the the ashara and in mythic like i mean objectively looking at it the current game i believe is very similar like they have a lot of similarities yeah i just remember to tweet stay safe i i love that tweet so much it just i laughed so hard when i saw it the well this isn't like luciferan at all i i i don't know it's so funny it's a picture of stay safe just like staring like blankly into space just like it looks like his entire life is shattered it's so funny this is one of his casting at red boy's casting the world of first race it's like well this isn't anything like this from all i i laughed so hard i love that well i mean going off your point matt season like i think the problem with raiding like the way raiding's kind of been pushed as the forefront feature of world of warcraft i think the problem with raiding is raiding is not a sustainable end game you know it's not it's not sustainable game design if your entire game is centered around raiding it will eventually fail especially if it's an mmorpg and that's what we're seeing with world of warcraft look at how many steps and how many attempts have been made to get away from raiding look at the the rise of mythic plus these island expeditions these new world quest system all that stuff they're trying to get away from raiding because they realize that if raiding is the centerpiece of your game people will max level they'll get into the raid and then they'll just be raid logging you know till eventually they get bored because they're not doing anything for the rest of the week and that's really the problem with raiding and that's a great thing about vanilla in my eyes is like you said the weekend warriors you didn't have to raid back in original vanilla to enjoy the game just leveling up gave you the same satisfaction of end game progression because you could continuously build your character slowly but surely over time PvP was great the honor system constantly gave you something to rank towards and stuff like that you never had to raid to feel like yeah this is the game you know the entire game is reserved in this section and that was kind of how MMOs were before WoW to a certain extent obviously EverQuest had raiding and other games had raiding but the vast majority of MMOs were essentially pixelated lobbies where you could go out and do certain things here and there but at the end of the day was really about the community creating their own experience and the scripted PvE content was just kind of that that extra you know a way to incentivize the community coming together but not really more than that dude I have a couple thoughts with that that just to add on to that just just you said okay raiding PvP dungeons you forgot to mention fishing and you probably think I'm joking here but there's a dude named Smooth McRoof you guys may know is like his acapellas from YouTube but he also streams classic and he's a great streamer I watch him quite a bit he's very very passionate about classic I think he plays on private servers as well or he has a background in that scene and he's making a guild called Nat Pagle is my dad and it's solely based around fishing every weekend they're going to go win the Stranglethorne Vale fishing tournament they're going to have fishing based events and fishing competitions that they make of their own and I'm going to be joining it so it's just 100% what you said is true doing very basic things in World of Warcraft I mean people can enjoy it right so is he is he going to play on an RP server doing that yep RP yep yep just to avoid like you know you can't really do that in PvP right if you get stream sniped and stuff so speaking of which I so what was their reasoning for no RP PvP at launch was that there was no RP PvP at launch of retail vanilla is that what they said no that was just that was something they said but the big justification they gave was they they didn't see the demand for it in terms of like objectively going through like retail percentages like in retail out the percentage of people that play an RPP is so low relative to the overall population that like they can't justify making an extra server I'm not saying they shouldn't they should make an RPP server I should at least you know what's funny you know it's funny no one played PvP servers at all because they got rid of them they just added warm up yeah retail it's it's a different animal like I just just one just make one RPP server because like there's people that are in classic is way I believe is way more active in in classic than it is in current from what I understand well now now I do think retail wow for role play purposes I do think there's a lot of stuff in the game that kind of helps it like with all the toys and transmog and all the weird stuff right uh all the all the little extra extracurricular type stuff but like there's like there's a solid community of people that want to role play but they also want to play on a PvP server and you can argue that playing on a PvP server is more RP than on a PvP server right because like you see somebody else you can go kill them whatever right yeah I just I wish they would just make one I don't I don't see how it would be that big of a deal I don't I don't see what it would take away from everyone else for them to just make one RPP PvP server I just saw an interesting question right in BFA in BFA and Legion if you play on an RP server there is no sharding or cross server gameplay whereas on any other server you have random people appearing in and out from different servers etc that's in your server cluster I wonder and we haven't heard about this I wonder if on the there's obviously no PvP RP servers in classic I wish there were but uh the PvE RP servers I wonder if they won't have layering yeah that's a really good point yeah I mean that would break RP right if you just see people like zoning in front of yeah yeah of course it would yeah yeah I don't know I just now I'm not uh I used to think RP was dumb whenever I was younger but as I've gotten older I think it's so funny I just I think I think good role play is like I just think it's hilarious like I did GTRP for a while it was a blast and it was just all the ridiculous like little interactions so that people have I don't know I think it's funny but uh and there's here's the thing it's not even about me right and that's kind of the way that's the way that I try and look at things I try to get things objectively there's a a community of people that love to role play and I think having an RPP PvP server for those people is important for classic I mean if worse comes to worse I'm sure they'll they want to RP they'll go play on the PvE server but it would be much more ideal for them to go play on the PvP server and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised I mean we saw the beta everybody played PvP I wouldn't be surprised if they make a PvE server sorry an RPP PvP server alongside an RPP PvE server my biggest concern would be that the PvE server would die that that would be my biggest concern yeah true I mean I I don't think there's any good reason to not have it at least one RPP server I think there is I think there's definitely a demand for several of them I really don't know I mean it's so easy for them to do right like why not just do it just do it for it I I have no idea why they're not yeah I think if people make uh I don't know the server names are coming up soon so hopefully it's not too late it might be too late but they have been pretty good about listening to feedback you know you had the whole regional thing with European servers so I think if people make a big enough fuss about it it's possible to still get it because they haven't announced the realm names but I'm not sure it's it's getting pretty close so yeah I wonder yeah I wonder if they're going to do it before or not announce it before or not like if it's just going to be like here it is go side out or if they're going to let you know beforehand very curious the real question is uh in classic what'll be the new I see people talk about this in chat what will be the new uh moon guard gold shire server there has to be one right there does have to be one there does have to be one I'm I'm interested in seeing some of the names I'm very interesting seeing some of the names because I think what's going to happen is uh I don't think they're going to some people what if they name it after you know Nostalgia I don't think they're going to do that I don't foresee that happening but um name it after streamers well I know I don't think they should do that either but uh I do think I I think that at a certain point you kind of run out of things that are like cool to name your server after Illidan Kelthuzad you know Frostmourne right like at a certain point like you're gonna what are you gonna use old blanche like I don't know I don't know what you're gonna come up with like like Marshall Dugan like I don't know what they're going to call the servers you know um it's it's going to be it's going to be interesting for me to see but uh I don't know I can't even think of any other names here's a question for you how many servers do you I'm sure you guys get this question all the time like you can put a number how many servers do you think you would have interesting probably for North America if I just had to take a guess considering they're doing layering for launch they'll probably have around 20 for NA I would guess around the entirety of EU like including all the different regions probably around 15 to 20 as well um if they if they have less than 20 I'd be I'd be kind of so if they had less than 15 NA I'd be pretty surprised that's I I agree I think probably 20 per region like 20 China 20 EU less less for Australia like 10 or maybe 5 for Australia I don't know definitely 20 or 25 yeah yeah I think um I think 20 is not a bad number per region at least for like NA and EU and then you'd have you'd have China and yeah I think I think you guys are giving good estimates I I just remembered we do have some sort of frame of reference because it was one of I think it was our interview as fun with them when we were down at the media summit down there three months ago or whatever they said they didn't want to make the mistake of making too many servers like 30 and that's the number they give as being too many as 30 so probably they're thinking less yeah that's a good point and here's the idea the idea behind layering is layering is like a dynamic server cluster right they think that people and this is a very reasonable thought I think I think a lot of people think this the hype of anything classic wow whatever if something's hyped up you will have this big influx of players at the very beginning and then you're going to have a drop-off so the concern is if they were to have actual server clusters they would definitely have to merge like every server that's that's how they feel like if you have like a 50 drop-off after like a month or something just people who made a character got the little three or four ten whatever and then decided whatever they just kind of were getting a taste and it decided classic not for them you're going to have such a big drop-off in population for all these other servers that every server is going to feel dead so with the layers they have it it's almost like a dynamic cluster where each layer is the size of a server so if you have a layer or sorry of an original vanilla server and then by phase two they can get rid of everything and hopefully it'll balance out my concern is in phase two I bet we're going to get big cues if they go with like a 3000 player cap like even if even if there's like a 5000 player cap they got it yeah yeah well I think even if they went up a little bit there would it would be maybe good it might be good but there's still be a cue right now the hope would be that if you have this is from my perspective the hope would be that if you have like a 5000 person server cap it's not too it doesn't make too big an effect on the game like respawn times and this and that being centered around like a server with 3000 people and that having 5000 people on the server at a time it would just kind of naturally filter out and spread across the entire server as opposed to like with 3000 people so I don't know like I love I'm gonna be honest back on private servers I love the 10k cap I loved it but this is it's a different animal like I um I just think realistically I think they might if they increase it they wouldn't increase it by very much well yeah and I mean like you need to do something to accommodate that many players right vanilla wow obviously only had two and a half or 3000 players I think that we've heard different things from not Kevin Jordan John Stats and Mark Kern about why they only had two and a half or three k I think one of them said it was hardware one of them said it was gameplay design decision not really sure either way that's what the game was designed around was that many people so if you have 10,000 people or 15,000 people like on some private servers they've obviously had to do things to accommodate those players the primary things being I think on the stories they dropped down draw distance on different servers they've uh they've increased dynamic respawns and things like this so like you have to do something if you want to have that many people and classic wow is saying okay our approach is layering so you're right like I think honestly I'm more concerned about the phase one transition into phase two than I am launch day because I think you know you you're gonna have all these people that are accommodated on a giant server through phase one with layering and who knows like who knows you might have 40,000 people online at once with layers on one server like we just have no idea 30,000 25,000 it's going to be a big number right um especially those because like phase two is the launch of world bosses which is going to be a hype freaking event like everyone is going to want to participate in that first world boss kill just because it's going to be so insane there's going to be literally thousands of people going after the same boss in the same zone and if layering is off dude that's going to be that's dude I don't even I don't even know that's going to be like if if the server cap is 10,000 people like 8,000 9,000 are going to be in that zone and then 1,000 are going to be whatever doing the same thing but it's going to be like completely packed like never been done before in the history of wow period like some eve online shit you know what I mean like excuse my friends but like it's going to be crazy who is the uh boss what was the green dragon that like spawned mushrooms when someone died that was going to be interesting there's like you know 500 people on top of emorous emorous yeah that'll be uh that'll be fun yeah I mean tips is right like this uh this tool that they've been using to accommodate all these players you know layering is now taken away and at the same time they're introducing content that incentivizes players to log in and kill stuff right so it's going to be a big problem like I said my big concern with classical hour right now is not launch like I am concerned about launch but my bigger concern is when phase two comes out I'm still freaking hype dude I don't know dude I I'm freaking hyped I got to stand up or something I'm sorry yeah make your character a bunch of times go practice and help me just go just go practice um pretty soon guys by the way we are going to take a look at twitter here in a second uh hashtag classicast and uh we'll look at twitter a little bit we'll do a little bit of q&a and and we'll take some questions out of chat as well if you guys have any questions for uh any of us collective or uh or any questions for mad season specifically I will take a look at that and we um we'll do a little bit of q&a here to wrap it up uh do you guys have anything else you want to hit on before we go to q&a let's do a q&a man let's do it uh well I think this is a good question start us off this is from chins chins gaming he's a he's actually a keltuzod native a fellow keltuzod native a question for everyone how long do you think the phases will be well I'll go ahead and start um I think that the original vanilla took about 24 to 25 months it was like it was like 24 and a half months or something from November 23rd to I think it was December 5th was the 2.0 patch so I don't think it would be crazy to to see kind of like a two-year-ish cycle for vanilla wow for for wow classic based off that and having six phases and when things happened originally I think if it's like two and a half to three and a half months for phase two to come in with diremall I think that sounds about right I think if you go another like three months for blackwing layer I think that would sound about right so you get blackwing layer you get phase three in uh after like six months in original vanilla you got blackwing layer at the eight month mark and then I think zg came like a month or so after maybe it was like almost two months after I can't quite remember off the top of my head but you could put the zg phase with the emerald dragons like three months later again and then you could have a q like three or four months later right and I think vanilla wow the progression of vanilla wow has some natural uh has like some natural like kind of down parts like right before the next patch comes out that's normal right if you're on the cutting edge of content that's that's a normal thing to experience it's like okay this is like a little bit of a lull in the content because you've been grinding it and all that kind of stuff but I think for the typical player it's not going to be that big of a deal I think if you have okay everybody was lolling at unbelievable okay I was like wait what happened when I say I'm not that funny but uh no no sorry it threw me off uh so yeah I think going like basically like three three three and then maybe the third one is another three or four months and then five or six and then five or six uh months for the last two I think would not be crazy or the period of time for the last two right so like five or six months of aq patch and then five or six months of nax patch and then uh and then hopefully a burning crusade hopefully phase two comes after blizzcon I do want to say that yeah I think if we would it hold on so august 27 so let's say beginning of september then beginning of september so september october november is the third month so on that timeline the beginning of phase two would be like middle of november or beginning of december or something it will I would bet my life it will definitely come after I think so blizzcon the thing is it's definitely going to be during december holiday season uh so if you're taking time off for christmas or want to go out of town to visit your relatives or do do anything at all for christmas you're forfeiting uh honor which is a big problem well if you want to do the honor grind if if you want to do the honor grind uh and the honor grind without battlegrounds is oh this is a whole this is a whole subject to talk about another time probably but uh there there are some concerns about doing the honor grind without battlegrounds because back then back in the day it wasn't going to be nearly as competitive as it might be in classic um so people are worried about like spawn camp not spawn camping but uh camping like flight paths and stuff ganking like because you start getting honor I think it's level 48 when you start getting honor so you can imagine like chill wind there there's going to be certain flight paths that people are just going to be sitting at and just just camping in between queues and especially because you don't get ported back to town if you're in a pre-made oh well that's isn't going to be an issue in phase two because there's no battlegrounds but uh it could be an issue in phase three still it'll still be an issue in phase three because people aren't weren't getting ported back to the capital cities on the beta so uh so yeah is it 51 plus or 48 plus stay safe do you know uh what honor 48 plus okay that's that's what I thought somebody in chat said 51 um but yeah anyway that's that's like a whole another thing but go on go ahead and continue with uh um you're thinking phase two is going to be after blizzcon you're almost positive oh i i guess i'll give my timeline like i think that phase one was emcee and annie is going to be five months like i think a lot of people like myself included it's like uh five months of emcee annie but most people are going to take two or three months to 60 they're going to be in progression guilds are going to be hard stuck on gar hard stuck on regneros for several i'm not kidding for several weeks i think you have to give those more casual players more time to actually experience the game for the first time i think most people playing classic will be doing it for the first time so let them and let them play the game uh phase one five months i think that probably phase two which is dm azure ghost chazik and honor world pvp probably a month and a half or two months i saw someone say in chat that blizzard will want to move on from phase two pretty quickly and add bg's because world pvp is going to be wild i can see that happening so maybe a month or two months at most um phase three bwl and bg's i think will probably be three months and i i think it's going to be that short because like zg and bwl it's sort of like in the same scope so i think that phase three will be three months and phase four is maybe like another two or three months and that's all grub and world dragons i think that phase five which is aq 40 and aq 20 so you're getting two new rates by the way and and a difficult rate at that i think will probably be five or six months and then you know phase six is the last phase that's next ramus i think will be five months um that's like 22 or 23 months total i think will probably be around there mm-hmm yeah i'd say phase one three months phase two two months phase three three months phase four two months phase five six months phase six six months that's my guess i'm more aligned with stay safe i think um taking leveling into consideration i think phase one might last four or five just to give people time to hit 60 and the emultin corner nixia that's two rates well nixie's a one boss raid but still um and phase two considering is just world bosses and the honor system i think i say like maybe like a month month and a half two months at the very most phase three like the rest i would say i'd say phase three phase three has a lot of stuff like that's two battlegrounds in a blackwing lair i say like maybe yeah i think like four months yeah and dark moon fair as well and also sorry i keep interrupting you go ahead i want to i want to touch on phase three a little bit once you're done okay uh phase four zg that's just 20 man green dragons rathi i'd say maybe like two or three months for that um phase five aq i'd say that's because that's a q 40 and a q 20 and the war effort i'd say like four months for that because doesn't i'm not sure like uh again i don't play private servers how long does the war effort typically take uh in your guys's experience the fastest it's ever been done the thing about private servers is like the war effort typically what happens is day one it'll hit like 60 of the supplies just because everyone's been stockpiling but then after that it falls off because there just isn't as much investment in a lot of people and like people get to it eventually but i think even on the most recent not the most recent but like on nd for example it took like it still took a couple of weeks the fastest you can do it i think it's eight days because you have to kill vile straws twice for the scarablord quest but i think it still took a couple of weeks on nd but like in classic honestly because the population is there and the players are invested i think it's going to take eight days on most of the high pop servers some of the low pop servers might take longer but i can't see it lasting more than eight days well it also depends on if people are going to be intentionally delaying in order to farm scarablord mouts room which could happen possibly i guess yeah which could happen um so what i wanted to add mad season about what you said with with phase three being so heavy something else and this is something else i kind of have an issue with the phases are are basically two patches bundled together that's that's how they're approaching it phase one is 1.2 phase two is 1.4 so on right phase three is 1.6 so because phase three is 1.6 it's also 1.5 what happens in patch 1.5 is they upgrade a lot of loot in mc and uh they not necessarily just upgrade but uh they add a bunch of items into molten core a ton of items into molten core so what my concern is is that if this molten core update comes in phase three instead of phase two it ends up being you're doing molten core with like the same drops forever and ever and ever and it's going to take away from raiding right tier two is not going to drop in molten core that that's something that they're they're not going to do but um yeah as far as the like onslaught girdle flame guard gauntlets a lot of the really good items that drop in not not all the really good items but a lot of them uh they're not going to be put in bone reapers is put in from the beginning if i remember correctly oh but it gets changed a bunch of times in vanilla and the final version of it is a really really strong so you're going to have the really really strong version of bone reapers in from the beginning is that red prio or is that warrior warrior prio don't don't listen to we're just gonna we're just gonna disenchant it because we need the nexus crystals i think no i don't know we'll see how it goes um my my typical rule for like uh loot council stuff is like pve prio right so if we have a like if we have a ret paladin how how we typically do this is like i would get like a two i would be like slotted for a two-handed weapon um but then we'd give like another two-handed weapon if the other two handed weapon drops before uh like whatever i'm slotted for then the other two-handed weapon would go to somebody else uh and then i i wouldn't like i i wouldn't just get like every two-handed or something like that but like if there's for example we had a situation where i was going to get a bone reapers um but then BWL came out i got slotted for ash ghandi and then we had two more bone reavers drop i believe before we got an ash ghandi and i and i passed on both of them i had to right because if we're following our loot list then it's like okay somebody else should get this for pvp or something i i know it's pve prio but that's that's kind of how we handled it in the past um we've gotten screwed by that a little bit but that's that's kind of what we thought was fair at the time so yeah loot man it's it's it's tough like i said it's there's a high pension for drops so i understand fully yeah but um but yeah i didn't get a comment on that none of that well give us your opinion give us your opinion hey well you're the one who's bringing a boomkin to your raid so true true it's on my back man do the math take a look no i think i think boomkins fine they're just there that's really uh having a having to deal with uh the looting of the boomkin or the loot the loots of the boomkin it's pretty annoying so and and to survey and com uh combat res mm-hmm yeah and dying i mean they might not have the man at a cast but yeah um let's go ahead and move on to the next question my phone for some reason got locked um is there anything that you would recommend that you must do this is on twitter by the way guys tweet at us hashtag classic cast and that's what i'm looking for i'm looking i'm searching through hashtag class cast um is there anything that you must do this from patty uh once you hit level 60 so for example like in inverting crusade you would get like the um you try and get the uh the keys for the heroic dungeons that's what you would be trying to do is there anything that you guys would suggest to do once you hit level 60 depends on your class sorry good man a nixie attunement is is gonna be like your your equivalent to the the burning crusade king that's that's your biggest attunement for fresh level 60 well it depends on the phase oh yeah it still is the biggest like the longest attunement chain you have molten core attunement of course which is pretty straightforward that just goes through molten uh no black rock depths and um as far as like if you're just talking about stuff like attunement i mean you have some dungeons as well like i the first thing i'm going to do i'm going to get all the keys i want to get the keys to stratholm skullamance uh upper black rock spar which is needed for a nixie attunement i want to be the key master i think that's like a good goal for anyone just get all the keys people will even pay you gold sometimes i remember on my rogue i had the ubrs key and it was kind of a pain to get so sometimes they'd just take me along open the door give me some gold and i'd head out so it's kind of a way to make gold as well not sure if that'll happen this time because i think people have more knowledge in general and they know how to actually get the key but it's worth experimenting with i think it's always because a lot of people just don't want to do it so i i do yeah the gems yeah the gems are so hard you know yeah i would say probably get your epic mount even before attunements you hit 60 take take 24 hours or 30 hours depending on how fast you farm gold get your epic mount first thing it'll pay off it'll pay off so much because you will do everything subsequently faster epic mount is really really valuable um so i do think it's a little bit different if you play horde or if you play alliance um i think if you play alliance what you should do is you go to iron forage and you stand on the corner of the bridge and you press z you unsheathe your weapon and you stand there and say hey everybody look at me on level 60 if you're horde you go on the hut over the mailbox and that's that's what i would suggest again it's a little bit different uh for horde and alliance but uh that's that's what i would definitely suggest once you hit level 60 make sure that's the first thing that you do stand there for two or three hours flex on everybody all the lobis who are running through town uh and then go from there so yeah no in all seriousness i i agree with say save i think i think getting your epic mount is really important uh because it's it's one of those things that it's a permanent upgrade you get it you're there forever and then like you said you can you can go to dungeons faster you can get materials faster you can farm fact everything is faster when you have an epic mount yeah i also want to say to add on to that if you are a warlock or a paladin i've had people say that they're going to wait till phase two to get their class epic mount because the quest chain can't be completed or started until phase two because you dire mall for both of them if you're a warlock or a paladin the second you hit 60 in phase one uh don't wait by your epic mount by a normal normie epic mount don't wait for fish yeah no i totally agree and there's there's reasons for that one it's it's because of the time and everything else that was mentioned but also from like a like a combat perspective you're casting a spell right so let's say let's say you're casting as a paladin or warlock you're casting your mount it's a spell mage runs into you blink counterspell now you're locked out for 10 seconds and you can kill you if you're regenning mana while you're mounting up to the next place you're sorry the next place it ticks your five second rule so basically i cast a spell and then i don't regen for another five seconds so i'm not getting spirit regen so yeah that's uh that's just like one thing um yeah so that's just something from like a combat perspective that's why i don't i don't even like the casted mounts and pvp especially so yeah yeah or if you have any sort of cast speed reduce like if you have cursive tongues like your cast time is scuffed uh there's a lot of memes mm-hmm well i i don't know i don't understand why people are question marking do you guys know like what's so hard to understand about you you cast a i don't know i don't know what's so hard to understand about them question mark yeah question mark yeah it costs you mana too so you lose mana whenever you do it so if you're farming and stuff with a with a casted mount you lose a lot of mana and stuff like that so that'll impact your farming as well um yeah i mean that's that's huge in fact for a long time and this is based off like private server experience i was telling people to uh if you're a warlock or a paladin when you hit 40 go train your charger or fell steed and then go actually buy for 20 g a or or sorry 10 g a physical mount and use that mount instead of the dread seed because of the mana thing uh that's like a super tryhard min maxi thing but it's actually super beneficial i mean also like the pvp thing you can't be spell locked it around it or whatever um but it's the opposite on classic wow where the mount itself is like 80 g and then the training is like 20 g or so so i would say don't spend the 80 g just just use the charger or fell steed when you hit 40 yeah i mean i would say like in general like what to do at 60 it's all contingent upon what kind of player you are what priorities you have and then also your class to a certain extent if you know you you hit level 60 at your own pace and you're not really too concerned with like cutting edge content and always you know min maxing and stuff and rating then i definitely agree i mean get your mount farm go freaking go light up red ridge or uh you know or or stone town or wherever you want to go as as alliance for it like go have some fun on it because like you only hit 60 once you know like that first 60 in classic wow that's only going to happen one time then it's never happening again so just enjoy the moment as much as possible if you're trying to you know serve our first and going hard then you probably already know what you need to do for the most part if you're a mage probably want to prioritize hydraxidine rep if you're like hunter for example go hit up the crater get those leathers as fast as possible if you're like a warrior you know or a rogue depending on who's going to get the uber's key make sure you get those runs going if you're a guild but like at the end of the day i would say like you hit level 60 go just have fun celebrate do some world pvp afk on iron forage bridge like as fan said like do the thing that's going to make you happiest because that's only going to happen one time and then it's it's done yeah and that and that's what's important right the the question was specifically for somebody who's like like they're tryharding right um the reality of it is wow is a game that's meant to be played the way that you want to play it and and you should absolutely play the game that way like if you want to just like run around screw around maybe you hit level 60 and you're like you know what i want to go run lobis through dead mines you know some people like some people like doing that i used to do that i would just for fun like i was just bored not doing anything i was like okay yeah like i'll just go grab some people and be like hey you guys want a dead mines run they're like sure and uh i'm sway pulling yeah i just i just pull a bunch at the same time and you know kill it in a few pulls whatever it was just like it was fun for me you know um but uh if you're really tryharding then yeah i think absolutely uh doing something like getting your epic mount or something would would be a good idea so um uh this is a question for mad season well mad season create a paladin alt for the paladin police force hmm that's that's i thought you would go paladin for that reason but yeah well it's it's another plate where it sounds tempting just just for aspen skill i might have to do that well here's the thing i i think people see your transmog right they see the the drake talon's paul or the drake talon pauldrons and the flame guard gauntlets and they see all the gear wearing right the onslaught girdle and they look at you and say you know what that is a ret paladin that is all ret paladin gear so clearly mad season probably is a paladin player i think that's how most people feel uh right off the bat whenever they see your character so that's that's probably where that question comes from dude can you imagine you me mcconnell rolling together mm-hmm we press one button between all of us and just everything dies it'd be amazing it'd be great it'd be a lot like ret i can't find any now it'd be a lot like ret and rattle guilds right yeah of course of course no i think uh no i think uh the paladin police force stuff the world to be streamed and stuff that i used to do a lot of people really enjoyed those and uh we wouldn't always just take paladins even though it was fun whenever we had like a holy and ret paladins just running around in world to be paying but uh we know we always had like random people tag along and stuff like that and it was it was always a lot of fun it was really enjoyable um here's a good question this is from our good friend uh former class cast attendee guest sieve hd sieve hd asks question for everyone what are some classic add-ons that you guys recommend must haves or just ones for fun do you guys have any i'll tell you that peggel is probably the most important add-on did they make a peggel for classic absolutely yeah i am very proud to say i had the highest peggel points on all of the classic web a there you go i didn't even realize they made a peggel uh they made a peggel add-on for it i think uh i think different add-ons are add-ons are meant to kind of they're supposed to make you kind of customize your your your gameplay right more how you want to play the game i think there's some that people say like oh you have to get this or you have to get that for rating for example like uh on on the 1.12 client in the private server scene a lot of times healers or like healing officers and guilds would require all the healers to get luna unit frames because it had healing prediction right like it would it would give you like a whenever you heal somebody it shows their health and then it shows like a green bar of like oh you're probably gonna get healed this much um which is something that was uh i mean that's something that you see in retail wow too but um that's something that ended up being a big deal in classic on no on private servers so i'm sure there's gonna be some stuff like that now uh there is an add-on actually so so sieve and i were talking about this uh was this today or a few days ago i don't remember when this was and this actually just reminded me there's an add-on that has like a it's like a kill count right where where i forgot i forgot exactly what it was called but it's like it keeps track of how many of each mob that you kill from the point that you have your add-on onwards and i think if somebody made something like that by classic launch it would be really cool to see like oh i killed x amount of this thing i killed x amount of that thing by the time i hit 60 i forgot what it's called i think it was like mob info i think that's what it was i think it was like mob info or something um yeah just how many bores did it take me to get to 60 who knows i think something like that could be cool um but i don't i don't know if somebody's going to have that ready to go for classic launch it'd be cool for pvp keep track of player names yeah well there was a times go go ahead well i was gonna say there was an add-on for that like kill kill on sight list kos list would keep track of how many times you killed somebody how many killing blows you had on somebody and how many killing blows they had on you uh but i don't know if they're gonna have that for classic ready to go yet i would say like outside of that like the big ones are scatter dps mate i was able to get scattered you guys have scatter i like scatter more than dps mate um what did i run with i ran with like recount somebody ported the old recount to the classic beta and that's what i ran with yeah i i'm not the biggest fan of scatter you guys can go to i think the website's called warcraft tavern it has a lot of add-ons you can go take a look but like questy i would say is important for people i would say omni cc a lot of people might want to have um classic cast bars um you know like ktm threat major dbm if you're gonna be raiding um those are like the really big ones i think yeah and that's that a lot of that stuff is like raid specific you know like um because not everybody's gonna be raiding right but if you're raiding like those are absolutely like you guys should do this um your guild's probably gonna going to uh require a lot of that stuff not require necessarily they'll probably require a threat meter but like you'll probably just want a damage meter one that i really like um or a couple but one that i really like is leotrix plus it's kind of like the equivalent of lazy pig or azeroth autopilot um auto accepts quests auto turns in quests skips cutscenes stuff like that it's got a whole bunch of options like azeroth autopilot especially for like speed leveling if you're trying to get to level 60 fast might be a good idea i think it vendors your your graze too i think too um outfitter and trinket menu basically the ability to swap out gear very very quickly um makes things a lot more convenient than having to dig through your bags every single time you want to swap gear uh stuff like that just it's just conveniences but over the long run it pays off so much do you say enemy cast bar stay safe yeah i had one called classic cast bar yeah i mean just any kind of enemy cast bar add-on that works that works please somebody make one that's not scuffed please well dude on uh like even on the 1.12 client like i don't i don't remember ever seeing uh maybe i'm wrong and maybe i just never found one i never found a good cast bar like they were all like there was something wrong with all of them like one thing or another every single one so i think it's just how i think it's how the game is designed i don't know if it's going to be different with like the new api or something but i i think it has to do with how like information is processed in vanilla yeah i heard something like most this could be wrong but i heard that most enemy cast bar add-ons take the information from like your combat log so it doesn't tell you when when spells stop being cast so that's why they continue after a spell cast stop it's so annoying but if somebody is like smart and knows maths and computers and programming and java plus yeah please make make a good enemy cast bar please now one thing that just came to mind is i think it was called weapon swing timer uh if you're a melee if you're a melee weapon swing timer was really good uh it's it's in the same style you can you can set it to where it'll actually look like a cast bar so it looks like it fits into the base ui and um which is cool the the guy who made his left-handed glove and he uh he actually watched in my stream because i i actually was talking about that and then he happened to be in chat and he was like wait yeah it's a good idea let me update it and i was like wait what so yeah it's like oh that's convenient but um but yeah so i think uh i think weapon swing timer is really good if you're a melee so especially for pvp but uh what i'd say is i go like a lot of the little convenience stuff but not trying to go too major i like cell junk because back then you didn't have a like an organized junk or cell junk button in classic it just sells all your grays with a click of a button and you can like mark items as junk right so if you like i don't know troll sweat or something or something that's borderline useless or that's just clogging up your bags maybe a silk cloth i think sometimes well i think you want to put silk cloth into bandages if i remember correctly vendors for more uh i like that one um i like to use bar tender i know people are kind of contested on that but i don't really like the default ui too much especially in classic if you're if you're playing a class with just a ton of buttons like like a warlock or something i support you on that mat season i love bartender too yeah although one of the things i will be doing and i'll have to go back to the original ui not to get too off topic here is i want to make a pvp video uh once classic launches and i have to have the default ui like upscaled so just like your old screenshots i'm gonna have a drowning pool music linkin park and all that old stuff so i guess i'll have to forego uh for that but it should be a good time oh there we are so um hmm trying to think of what i used in the beta um as far as questy is concerned it is super useful there are no quest waypoints in classic or even like markers for quests like uh on your minimap right a lot of people will find that useful certainly but i think there is kind of some value and this is the boomer in me speaking again of if it's your first time just kind of reading the quest right it kind of adds a bit of exploration to to the game uh and like finding these hidden quests and whatnot uh so i'd say like at least try it without questy first if you want to if that aspect appeals to you otherwise you can just go for that another one that's going to be important are battleground timers because i believe those weren't on by default like when you know you take an av flag right you you just basically have to to count it out when it's going to cap i think that's pretty important yeah i think it's all at the top of my head a gear score how could we forget oh there you go yeah just blow my computer to smithereens if somebody tries to make a gear score add-on and people try and make that meta oh man just just kick the thing over and just i'm going back to pentium three dude right i watch someone make an achievement add-on somebody joked about this the other day oh god i mean but they said they're going to make an achievement add-on that actually can track from your armory the kills you've gotten and then basically like populate an achievement interface on your screen watch watch somebody make an achievement add-on and bring achievements to classic well it's like looking for more ragnaros look at you i think i i mean i i think like if you're looking at stuff like like kill tracker of mobs like in that add-on we talked about earlier i think that's one thing when it gets to the point where you're talking about achievement points and stuff like these are the kind of things that like to me that was like like there's specific things that happen that were like beginning of the end things achievements gear score i think stuff like that is just like i have like ptsd from it like i i hate all that stuff right because of the whole link achieve thing like you were talking about tips and and also from gear score like literally blizzard adopted this and they were like you know what we're gonna everybody's using gear score anyway let's just make everything based on item level but um the good thing the good thing is that blizzard has talked about if if there are add-ons and stuff in the game uh that people make and they take advantage of the new api or whatever to do some things that are like not in the uh they're not like in the same uh what's the word i'm looking for they're not like vanilla they're not they're not things that are vanilla right the same spirit the same spirit thank you the same spirit i almost i've been playing retail too long i forgot spirit was a thing so uh i think they thanks uh so yeah not the same spirit of vanilla then they're gonna break them so uh so yeah i think uh i think that's gonna be good that's that's at least a little bit comforting to hear but um yeah very good very very good uh let's see let's take a few more questions here hmm what are some good professions to make gold or world activities to make gold this is from uh jacob i think this is a good i'm assuming he means like while leveling and stuff and uh there's a few different ways of looking at this uh stay safe you want to start actually good way to make gold i would say as far as professions go um probably herbalism like herbalism is some quick bank that's what i would probably say now there are like better class specific gold farms if you're a hunter doing dynamo stuff or if you can get down in the crater with leatherworking but as far as just like sheer professions probably just herbalism i say this is it might sound weird but i always say fishing fishing men there's so many low level fish that you can get as i remember that just are there they're really good gold makers like uh the deviate fish for the savory deviate delight uh blackmouth oil off the top of my head and you can do it at a low level like as far as leveling is up it's concerned you see a pool go grab it and that could be a lot of gold i'm not sure like when the server first starts because the economy might be growing but fishing because a lot of people neglect it and i don't say that just because i'm joining joining a smooth necruse guild but if you want to say just a fresh server i think skinning is going to be good um because i think a lot of your gold earned will just be from vendoring because again a lot of people you know they'll be training spells they don't really want to you know spend their gold so i think just skinning i mean you're killing the mobs anyway grab their skins vendor them possibly auction them if you can make more from that uh yeah i say skinning fishing are like my two favorites fishing for more an established server skinning for a newer server okay yeah that was a good i'd say if you have like an established like five-man group because i'm pretty sure we're going to have the 10-man ubrs and the five five-man strapped in scola right that's what they said if that's the case it's going to be everything 1.12 basically 1.12 yeah exactly what you said so reduce i would say righteous sort of farming in like strapped like if you can get a really good group going you can make a lot of money like because usually i mean a lot a lot of times those are done in like 10 man's and zerg down and stuff like that but if it's going to be five man you get righteous orbs with a good group you're going to have like a really really good time those are going to go for a lot of money for crusader enchants so i would say farm the crap out of strapped living um so for from my perspective there's a few different ways to look at this right some people like they might try and like level as fast as they can or whatever and if they want to do that what they'll notice is let's say you pick up skinning or fishing i i kind of like skinning because to me you can it's just like having extra stuff to vendor and especially early on in the life of a server yeah you're going to have a lot of that stuff just packed on the auction house and it's not even going to sell much more than it's not going to sell much more than uh what it would vendor for anyway so having extra stuff to vendor just gives you a little bit more gold better for repairs better for your skills this kind of stuff saving gold slowly slowly slowly to be able to get your amount of 40 if that's what you want to do now some they keep in mind kind of like i was in earlier if you're trying to level as fast as possible which i don't necessarily recommend i think people should just play the game however they want to play it um you'll notice that you try and skin something and then it's like oh it failed oh it failed and it's like okay okay well i just had to loot it and i it's like slowed me down because okay failed or like i'm fishing right you have to actually stand in place to fish and then oh nothing you know i missed it right whenever whenever you think you get a bite and you miss it um so some of this stuff it might feel like kind of slower whatever but i think if you're trying to make gold while leveling um i i i agree i i think i think fishing i think skinning and herbalism too i think are all good options and especially with herbalism i think herbalism pays off really well fishing pays off well too because people just love deviate delights and stuff like that so um i think a lot of the stuff with professions you're you're making an investment right you're making a time investment in order to be able to make more money later on even if it's going to affect you leveling slowly or whatever or affect your leveling speed a little bit so yeah i think something to add on to that too while we're talking about gathering professions that a lot of people might not realize and this was something that surprised me you asked me that question earlier is that um you can't track both herbs and minerals at the same time i totally forgot about that so grabbing both mining and herbalism isn't really the best unless you want to switch between that and also another thing to keep in mind is if you're leveling with someone as well like you don't you both of you probably don't want to grab mining or both herbalism as well right so just something to keep in mind to think good points for sure um let's take one more good question let's take one more good question um and then we got to do the face reveal right no it's here dude it's he's on camera right now that's him show him off yeah come on come on what you hide me up before the car no this is this is the face reveal dude actually you know what's going to be crazy is we're going to find out that mad season is actually that he's actually the meme he's actually going to be the uh like little little do we know he's actually the push it to the limit meme from uh he's only done this one before were you a big white team with you guys yeah yeah it's old school internet back then i i lived on that website but dude if i looked like that i think i'd be forced to use a face count and come on i would have hair game that would match yours i'd be the only streamer would be better man it'd be it'd be good it'd be really good um especially in the classic wall scene yeah absolutely so this is a good question we all balding hey well speak for yourselves uh this is uh this is from somebody has mcgold has hosted each of us man the host is a is a parasite it's a parasite it's a parasite yeah so uh clings to dead memes it's a good name it's a relative name uh how do you plan to run big community events given that people will be presumably spread out in classic uh i think that's a great question and i think that's something that especially from what we saw in the beta i think that's something that people uh at least from my perspective from from like a stream perspective that's something that i really really enjoyed doing being involved in like big community events and just seeing people come together um on stream now i think it's not necessarily stream specific right anybody can do community events i encourage people to do community events on whatever server they're on that's what classic wow is all about it's it's about the community and community isn't always a positive thing right there's there's good part of community and there's bad part of community but at the end of the day you can't have good without the bad that's how i feel um with that being said i think the main thing to focus on in the question is you saying with people being so spread out and yeah i do think that people are going to be spread out on different servers i we've talked about like what server we want to play on and we've said from the beginning our plan was for us to you know classic cast crew to play on the same server i think people have kind of okay well we'll play we'll play we'll play here and we'll play here and then it just kind of has naturally turned into a lot of people probably playing on the same server um whether you want to play on that server or not uh that's entirely your decision i think the the whole concept of like streamer servers and stuff like this that people worry about i think that's a whole another discussion i think a lot of people are going to be in for a rude awakening uh from from that respect i think the things that i think the things that people worry about aren't or most of the things that people worry about aren't necessarily a thing and two i think that just because you're not on a big streamer server doesn't mean that you're not going to experience some of the things that people are worried about so moving on i think the hope is getting the tournament realms for dueling tournaments and stuff so we could have people who are who are not on the server get to play together right i think i think that's that's the hope um that we get some kind of access to tournament realms and uh something like that and that's specific to like dueling tournaments or trying to host like pre-made versus pre-made tournaments stuff like that um i think as far as everything else goes i mean hey that's it's on the server right if you want to host a community event you got to host it on your server right i don't see how you could be on another server and do that so so lots of warlocks lots of warlocks yeah i guess i could expand on that like um you know as far as streamer servers are concerned i was one of the people who was going to avoid streamer servers at first because you know i wanted i felt like i wanted the full authentic experience and i felt okay well streamers didn't exist back then so i want to maybe avoid like the big streamer server but like really through the beta again i answered this earlier with what really surprised me is the community events and it really turned me on to it because um it's just again you said it earlier and it sounds maybe a bit cliche but the game really is about the community and i feel like all of the events that get put on like the dueling tournaments and even going outside and stuff like that you know on a smooth mcroove server he's going to do the um the fishing stuff as well right again i think you know for me personally not everyone's going to like it but i think just it kind of strength and it strengthens that community aspect a bit so you know it's it's not going to be for everyone though certainly so yeah for sure i think that um i mean and this is what's going to happen like every server and this happened before streaming was a thing too every server is going to have players that are popular and every server is going to have players that kind of like uh naturally will will accumulate people that you know like being around them or they think they're funny or they're interesting these are players that are going to kind of rise up a lot of these players might start streaming or something and they're going to have their own kind of uh viewership and people who want to watch them on their server because they're good players or this or that or whatever um i mean like for me like even in burning crusade like i like somebody else paid for my epic mount in burning crusade or my not my epic mount my flying mount in burning crusade you know and it's like i was uh i had a pretty i was pretty well received in burning crusade i think i had a lot of people who liked me and they thought i was good and stuff like that yeah hashtag sponsored yeah yeah sponsored uh sponsored flying mount so um yeah so i mean there's stuff like that's just gonna happen right you look back on like Swiftie and stuff like that right it's like oh legendary player Swiftie like because of the videos and stuff that he did um i don't think it's necessarily going to be specific to streamers and for me like i didn't stream before i was playing private servers i started streaming uh a few months in a couple months in and my stream just kind of naturally grew to be the most watched stream in in like for private servers right over the course of the next like seven months or whatever uh i every server is gonna have somebody like that where it's just somebody either becomes a meme or or they're they're gonna be really good and they're gonna be interesting to want i mean that's what happened i mean stay safe can can attest to it like i basically like i was like a big meme right i was literally like a private server meme and and that's what made people want to watch like what like what the hell why is this guy playing ret like what's wrong with this guy it's got like brain issues but like but yeah that's just kind of how it goes so i think every server is going to have somebody like that uh yeah i mean just to add on to that i like you're right okay so every every server in classic wow will have a streamer that steps up and you know all these servers are so insular and they're so community driven that there will be a streamer inevitably that will gain attention and traction on each server um you definitely can't compare that i'm saying this what you're doing but i'm just saying in general you can't compare like that one guy that's going to rise up or two guys that arise up on each server you can't compare that to like the streamer server with asman and so yeah no doubt no you definitely can't do that but every server will have their one or two famous guys like that's that's just the fact yeah but i and also what else i think is i think that well i think some of the issues that people bring up are very valid i think that it's other issues that people are just like people are being kind of paranoid about other stuff too and that's like a whole other thing um but yeah do you guys have anything else you want to you want to add to that as far as community events goes i was told there would be a face reveal and i'm still salty well guys you saw it this is exactly what mad season looks like he looks just like his character believe it or not he looks just like his character yeah so he's very very angry everything but head yeah so guys thank you so much for joining us today please please please if you haven't already follow tips follow stay safe follow mad season follow these guys check out their youtube channels twitter all that stuff all that stuff is on the screen down below right under the facecams i'm going to continue streaming for a little bit there is going to be a cooking stream tonight as well uh there will be a cooking stream at my house tonight as well so we'll talk about that a little bit and uh we'll see you guys next time 20 days baby take care boys mad season thank you for coming on dude thanks for having me guys