 Given that there is a quorum of the town of the town council of Amherst present I'm calling this meeting to order at 6 30 a.m. We have several announcements they are on the agenda, which is in the back of the room There is a particularly to make note of tomorrow night in at the bang Center I Think this is incorrect. It says it's in the town room, but that's not correct It's at the bang Center tomorrow night at 6 30 at the bang Center We will have the public hearing on the FY 20 town budget The and that will be a committee of the whole as well as the finance committee which is officially convenes that meeting on the 23rd the finance committee meeting will Meet in this room at 2 o'clock to discuss capital improvement program and the CPAC Recommendations the committee will meet again on the 28th at 2 o'clock Actually, we've moved that meeting to 1 o'clock No, that one isn't to but the meeting on the 28th is at 1 o'clock and That will also be in the town room and that's to vote For the finance committee to vote on the FY 20 budget recommendations and then finally on June 10th We have a meet a public forum on the capital improvement programs, and that will be in this room at 6 30 Would you please put the timing of the agenda up? We're going to enlarge that slightly for those of us that are aging. Thank you so I've actually Continued the practice of trying to put a time frame on our meeting But I'm also using this as an opportunity to show you that I'm taking a few things out of order So the first thing we will do is in fact move on. We do not have any hearing We do have general public comment, and we will take general public comment as soon as I am finished with explaining the agenda order we will then move on to 5 a and Then later on returned to be we will then move on to action items 7 b and then on to appointments 8 a and b And then we will return to the rest of the agenda in the order that it appears I'm doing this basically to accommodate both a personal need of a member of the council as well as audience who may be here to comment So let me begin by asking are there any people who would like to make public comment at this time? Okay, let me ask that when you come forward you say your name where you live and We're going to restrict you to three minutes. Thank you. Please come forward gentlemen in the back If it's not on then you need to turn it on now now it's on thank you sir All right, and I have a comment about appointments. Is this the time or will there be actually that's going to be later So there'll be another public comment. Thank you Are there any other public comments at this time? Okay, then moving on we're going to Ask Amy Roushik Roussi, Roussi, Rousseki I should after all these years Amy is the assistant superintendent of operations at the Department of Public Works However tonight she is presenting us with a proclamation as the president of the Massachusetts Water Works Association Thank you Yeah, so I As Lynn explained so I'm the assistant superintendent of Public Works I have come in I spoke to at least some of you guys About what Public Works does a couple of weeks ago was drinking water week And as the president of Mass Water Works Association I accepted on behalf of drinking water operators everywhere The governor's proclamation on drinking water week and so I want to you know tonight present that to you guys And I and I will just if I can make a little comment on it Much as it's not drinking water week anymore this week is actually Public Works week And so I think it's really fitting that we're here today to just kind of shine a light on these people that Have a you know have a hand in all of the public infrastructure in the town. So I'll read this proclamation and then turn it over. Thank you So a proclamation Whereas our health and standard of living depend on an abundant supply of safe clean water and Whereas water is a precious natural resource that is vital to both the environmental and economic well-being of Massachusetts citizens and Whereas water protection and conservation help ensure that future generations will have a safe and abundant supply of drinking water and Whereas the ever-increasing need for potable water makes it incumbent on all citizens businesses and industries To practice water conservation as a cost effective means of extending existing water supplies and Whereas through public awareness the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Seek to remind people about the value importance and fragility of our water resources now therefore I Charles D Baker governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts do hereby proclaim May 6th through 10th 2019 to be drinking water week and urge all citizens of the Commonwealth to take cognizant of this event and participate fittingly in its observance and It's signed by the governor the lieutenant governor and the secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Thank you Our next agenda item is Actually seven B. It's the local option Community impact fee on short-term rentals. Mr. Backelman Thank you So the this was presented to you a couple weeks ago It was then presented in a more detailed way to the finance committee and to the community resources committee it was where to which it was referred and I think tonight you were to hear the report from those committees and To hear their recommendations to you and I think they concurred on three motions that they're recommending to you tonight That is correct Andy Steinberg from the Fincom committee Yes You will have received in your packet a report from the finance committee that we submitted regarding their our recommendation, so I can be very brief since of course I assume that everybody read it but just in case if not the critical point is that after examining the Question in general and trying to make sure that we fully understood the law and His chair I did take the step backwards and actually look at the statute as passed by the legislature We discussed it and concluded that indeed Amherst is impacted by short-term rentals Rentlers use town services benefit from infrastructure and services and May have some impact on housing available for other types of rentals And therefore we recommend All three motions that were referred to by the town manager The first one You must pass in order to be able to touch the other ones. It's a sort of a critical first step and that is to accept the community impact fee and apply it to What are transfers of professionally managed units which are? Units that are rented out without the owner occupant being Also a resident in the same building That which is what makes it professionally managed The impact fee can be up to three percent. We Don't look at the amount as being that significant. It is paid by the renters And there's a reasonable request and we did recommend the three percent If you pass the first motion, then you're permitted to Consider and pass the second motion according to the state statute Which it applies then the same fee to Or three family dwelling units that include the primary The operators primary residence that's for the Airbnb type establishment where the Manager owner is just renting a part of a house in which he or she lives and then the second the last motion The we're recommending is that the motion of 35% of the community impact be collected under this provision would go to infrastructure projects and affordable housing The statute as we discussed at the last time this came up for the meeting applies to It has to be a minimum of thirty five percent going to it. We put thirty five percent in there As the number Anything we don't know how much will be collected. This is first enterprise for us. We Therefore Don't want to get into a guessing game about how much there is to distribute and Would prefer and recommend that it remain a part of the future budget processes Thank you For the community resource committee Steve Schreiber what he said We supported unanimously the basically the recommendation of the finance committee Okay, this is an item in which we've been a posted as having public comment Is there anyone who wishes to comment on this item? See none Move to further discussion within the council then let's move to motions The first motion is and we will take them in I'm sorry Darcy I Had some fun today at home watching the committee meeting where this was discussed and Just wondering if we would want to expand the second motion To include all short-term rental units because I know that Andy brought up the fact that it misses that That whole category of short-term rental units that are Not owner occupied Mr. Buckman The law the enabling a law does not permit that so the assist the language that is a permitted under the Law that was that was passed by the legislature Okay, one more question. Sure. So Once we Once we pass this if we do Does it come back for reauthorization yearly or is this this is it? Mr. Buckman. Thank you. No, it does not this is you're you're adopting this and this will be there Until you repeal it, okay Pat I've said this before so I'm being redundant, but I would like to see more than 35 percent Go to affordable housing. I'd like to see 50 percent affordable housing 50 percent infrastructure So that would be my recommendation Okay, are there any other comments? Yes, Alyssa. I'm very sorry if this was covered in the report And I'm just not finding it or hearing it But I'm wondering why we have to do the motion at all on the 35 percent because that's the minimum required by law So why do we even need that question? Are we just doing it for clarity's sake? I believe it's because that motion then applies to our 3% That that that motion required it is required to apply to our 3% the only the only motion I would have thought we would have needed for item 3 would be if We wanted it to be a larger percent if we want it to be a larger percent We would have to vote that we don't have a choice if we take if we do the first two things It has to be 35 percent it I'm okay with it saying that just to show everybody That's where the money is going But I'm just clarifying that that's the only reason we're doing it is to show everybody where the money is going not because it's Any different than what the law compels us to do if we don't increase it to 50 percent or 42 percent or whatever Any comment on that mr. Bachman? So by passing this it gives you them it It gives you the maximum flexibility So that that other 65 percent can be allocated to affordable housing or infrastructure or anything else that the council chooses What this does is it clarifies for our accounting department We're how you how the funds should be accounted when it comes in if you did nothing They would probably have to do that anyway But this gives clarity and the council will have spoken on how they want them this these funds handled It doesn't come back to you at another time Thank you mr. Ross Evan, I'm sorry So I actually wanted to build off of what pat said because my thought from our last discussion is that It's very we don't know how many units this would apply to it's likely a fairly minimal amount and so the I don't imagine this will generate a huge amount of revenue And so i'm curious given that 35 percent is this the floor and not the ceiling If there is any discussion in either CRC or finance about the potential to Expand that beyond 35 percent To increase the amount of money that could go towards these two things that are impacted by short-term rentals Andy from finance committee Well, we discussed it to the extent that we recognized to think what Alyssa had indicated that it wasn't necessary to do this. We wanted we did it For the reasons we'd made we're recommending the reason the motion for the reasons that mr. Bachman has stated the Question of going to a higher amount In the base motion We know that there are a lot of other costs that the town incurs and we haven't had a chance to examine and quantify what those costs are We know for example that There are inspections department Requirements there may be If some future time zoning enforcement questions is to whether it's appropriately zoned There could be public safety Costs that are incurred And it's a very small amount of money since we don't know any of this now We thought it's an issue to come back at a later date when we have more information but At this point giving maximum flexibility to the budget process doesn't cut us off from Making a decision at a later date to put more money in any single direction And pat did bring up this topic at the CRC meeting and It was basically the same discussion there And steven anything further and he's been he spoke well for on behalf of crc Thank you Any further discussion? Okay, then we have the first motion which is to accept the provision to mass general law chapter 64 g section 3d to impose a local option community impact fee at the rate of 3% effective july 1st 2019 and apply to transfer a occupancy of professionally managed units One or two or more short-term rental units in the same city town Operated by the same operator owner and not located within a single Or two or three family dwelling that includes the operators primary residents. Do I hear a motion? Dorothy I so move second Okay, kathy has seconded it Any further discussion on that one? All those in favor raise your hand That is unanimous The second motion is to accept the provisions of mass general law chapter 64 g Section 3d to impose a local option community impact fee at the rate of 3% Effective july 1st 2019 and applying to transfer a occupancy of Short-term rental units located in the two or three family dwellings that includes the operator's primary residents. Do I hear a motion? I will move that dorthy second Mandy joe Any further discussion? All those in favor raise your hand That is unanimous the third one is The that 35 percent of the community impact fee collected under mass general law 64 g Section 3d be dedicated to affordable housing or local infrastructure projects and the balance of the funds be a general fund Revenue of the town of Amherst that may be appropriated for any municipal purpose. Do I hear a motion? Kathy is has moved in second Seconded dorthy is second any further discussion? all those in favor And that is one two Please keep your hands up Okay, one Do you have them? Let me know when you're done. Margaret. Okay opposed And abstained So pat opposed and dorthy abstained Darcy abstained. Oh my god Sorry, uh, so the vote was 11 11 Okay Moving on to the next agenda item Which is appointments and this is town council appointments We're going to take the zoning board of appeals first And there are two presentations involved in this the first one is to specifically talk about the process And the second is to then Talk about the actual appointments So, uh, Evan, I understand you're doing the process. Is that correct? Okay, so we need the slides for um eight a and b First set So i'm going to speak Hopefully briefly although if members of the council have questions I have no issue with them asking them as i'm talking regarding the process that outreach Uh outreach communications appointments used In order to bring to you tonight our recommendations For appointments to planning board and the zoning board of appeals So Margaret you could Are you controlling this machine? Okay, so this looks complicated. I'm going to walk you through it And so this is a process that oka adopted on 3 18 2019 after More hours of deliberation than I ever want to remember And so to give you a little bit of the background to this process Oka set out to do two things one was to maximize Transparency and two was to protect privacy and balancing those turned out to be a very difficult process We sought to make sure that We had proper checks and balances in our process But we also wanted to make sure that we didn't create any unnecessary barriers to entry by creating a process that could perhaps intimidate Applicants who are not used to town government one of the goals of Our town government in the charter one of the goals of I think many of us on this council Is to try to diversify our boards and committees try to bring in Genuinely new voices people who have not participated in our town Discussions in the past and we recognize that those are the people who might be scared off By things like public interviews or the the release of their names publicly And so we've tried very hard to find a process that could balance transparency and concerns over privacy In order to have a pool that was diverse And this is what we came up with It was a difficult one to do within the constraints of open meeting law And so i'll walk you through a little bit of it so applicants submit the community activity forms Those are all then forwarded to the outreach communications appointments committee We received all CIFs for planning board and zoning board of appeals on april 19th The rule that we had adopted was in order for each member of oca to see the cafs But to ensure that they did not become Public as they were being treated as personnel records as they have been historically in our town We could view them We could read them We could not discuss them with each other because once they were brought into consideration They would have to be released and so in order to treat them as the personnel records that they are We could view but not deliberate on individual cas oca then elected a Designee who would be charged with conducting all of our interviews that designee was our chair sire sports uh, and so If we're moving from the red box to the big interview box, uh, the oca designee Conducted all the interviews she could include at her discretion the town manager The committee chair of either committee and the staff liaison to those committee. It was not an interview committee an interview team They could be there if they were available. They might not be it was completely at her discretion The only mandatory participant was the oca designee The reason we had only one was that the moment we put a second counselor on It became a subcommittee of our committee and therefore would have to abide by open meeting law And therefore every interview would have to be a posted public meeting We felt that it would be inappropriate to do interviews as posted public meetings And so we elected only a single individual to do those interviews those interviews took place on april 21st april 25th and may 1st the chair or the oca designee then thought about these things really hard And came up with her recommended appointees those were released publicly on may 9th On our meeting posting and then came to oca on may 13th at that time oca deliberated on them. We had a Very thorough discussion of all of the recommended appointees and along with a discussion of the process itself And we took a vote Those recommended appointees have now been forwarded to the town council You have in your packets our report Which is really two documents one is the report from the oca designee to oca Which is the length of your report that details the entire process The profiles of the recommended appointees and then a shorter cover page that details the committee deliberation on may 13th along with some Future considerations that we saw having gone through this process about things we might want to Discuss in the future. And so now we are There at the town council And so at this point the council has our recommended appointees You have a report that details who they are what the deliberation was around them And it is up to you to now decide whether or not to appoint them I want to be clear about what your options are Option one would be that you could vote to appoint The members of the that were recommended by oca You could reject any individual member or all members at which point they would be sent back to oca And we would be tasked then with bringing you new folks You could also refer back to us if you feel like you need more information So I think we gave you a 32 page report So I think we gave you enough information But if you feel like you don't have enough information about the appointee the recommended appointees if you feel as though You don't have enough information about the applicant pool If you feel like the applicant pool is insufficient you can always refer these back to us and we can bring back to you at a litter date Margaret if you want to go to the next slide One of the documents that you have and I am not going to read through this the way I just did Because I'm assuming that everyone looked at this already We tried to come up with a decision tree that you all could use to think about What do you what are you considering with regard to these appointees and whether you want to Appoint or not and so the first two questions there are about the appointees themselves Do they have the required experience? And then the bulk of it the the bottom part of that So that decision tree has to do more with questions about the applicant pool itself because we recognize that Obviously the appointees are a product of the applicant pool And so discussion about whether to appoint needs to necessarily involve consideration Not just of the names you put forth, but also the names that were available to us And so that is our process. I can field any questions Otherwise, I think we'll hand it over to our chair slash oka designee Before you do that. I just went to go back to the slide before this And point out that at the time the recommended appointees and the member was sent to oka Based on a vote of the council all council people received all the CAFs for these two committees That were applicants for these two committees Okay, are there any questions at this time regarding the process Dorothy, I'm not sure if this is the right time, but The process was made in under the guidance of how to do it within the open meeting law And this past week I went to an open meeting law meeting Um, which elissa went to also and I believe we heard a different interpretation of the open meeting law than which this committee was given Which would allow the whole committee if they went into executive session to Do a preliminary look at all of the resumes all of the CAFs And also for the whole committee to sit in on the interviews as long as they Recommended to the council twice the number of candidates for the positions um I also want to strongly say that um, I mean I know that this committee worked very very hard And that they worked to their very best trying to do The right thing for the candidates for the council and to do it in the open meeting law but I'm going to and I will recommend I will support their choices at this moment But I am recommending that the process be Reconsidered after we get through this initial appointment so we can get our committees moving And that we make a very clear policy on term limits um, that is going to be applied uniformly, um With all candidates across all committees and that we have a clear idea of how long one can be if one has served their term Um, how long you have to wait before you can reapply And that the CAFs be called public documents as they are in north hampton, which would make them able to be posted Um on the town website so that people could see it Um, and I just want to add my personal note to this Many times I did things in life only after I saw who was doing what and I saw what they what their qualifications were Um looked at what they did and then I said, oh, I could do that Um, so I think that we would get more applicants if this were more public I know that the committee had to work very hard with the applicants they got Um, but that if we made it a public system that we would have more applicants And we'd be bringing in new people as if we as we observe the term limits constantly bringing in new blood I'm sorry. Are there additional comments? Can I can I respond please? There's a lot there. Um, so there's two points. I do want to respond to in particular though One is uh, the question about open meeting law of a statement made about open meeting law and executive session We spoke extensively with our town attorney. We had One meeting where I believe we spent two hours on speakerphone with our town attorney another meeting where we spent a good chunk of time To run past the various options I think we drafted four different processes that look like this and ran them all through and for the most part They were shot down by a town attorney The information we received regarding executive session someone stop step in if I'm incorrect here Was that the full committee could not go into executive session only a subcommittee so that you have two people go into executive session the problem remained one that It wouldn't be the full committee and so you'd still have this the small amount But two you're right that we would have we would have had to bring forward More applicants than there were Slots and we felt like that still put people in an uncomfortable position where their name was brought forward publicly as a potential finalist And then publicly rejected and we felt like that could make people Who are on the fence uncomfortable With regard to your your comments on the process if you read our report We do we did extensively discuss what we labeled as future considerations And this committee does have every intention of reviewing multiple aspects of the process going forward Once we get through the committees that we need to appoint by july 1 Are there further comments? Yes, dorthy So the workshop I went to was run by the attorney general's office And it it did sound as if it was some interpretation was different from what the town attorney had said but I would say that Another way to do this in public is to to elect the offices then I see nothing wrong with having people's names out there. This is you're dealing with power of extremely important decisions on the zoning And the board of planning board and the zoning board of appeals Um, I see nothing wrong with people's names being out there It's a public process and I think the public wants to know who applied and who was appointed Kathy I have a Question about the process I believe you made a decision That when people came into interview for interviews You didn't suggest to them that if they had a short bio or resume a cv You know any blurb around them about themselves they bring and Then the information that we were given as counselors For almost all was just a caf which in many cases people Put a sentence in at most and didn't actually talk even about their experience Within their field, you know, if they were a whatever tell us what they'd done So there's extremely little information to go on if you weren't in the interview And I'm just wondering what led you to a decision not to gather the additional information Uh, and if it were available, I didn't want someone to have to write essays just for this, but You know if they had anything they could come in with That decision was based around our hope to protect the privacy of applicants Uh, cafs are personnel records and can be Uh, then shielded from disclosure. Uh, had they had we asked for resume cvs Those I do not believe would have been subject to the same Yes, sarah So I I very much appreciate that the rest of the council is really really thinking about this And if you read the cover letter that went with my report, these are all things that that we talked about I mean we found when I came back With applicants people were like why is one person's profile three times bigger than another's and and really what I had to Go on was what they filled out was caf. So if you read that that's one of the things we wondered about Next time do we want to um send questions and ask for written answers? Similar to like league of women's voters things where we all had those questions ahead of time You wrote them and then they were published. So these are all things that we're thinking of and of course back again to the cafs When we started this process um The cafs were as they always were which was that they were considered personnel files and there was no disclaimer on the bottom Nobody had really thought about putting that disclaimer on the bottom and our pool was people who had applied two years ago to the time that we started these so There wasn't really any way to retroactively go back and say to everybody Can you can we sign a new form? But that's something that we if you read our report that is definitely something that we're looking at I mean we we went through this process. We had our meeting We saw where it worked and we saw where it fell apart. So those are all things that we're definitely going to take up Other further comments Joe So I first want to acknowledge how much work you guys have done and the Line you've been really walking to try and protect privacy, but keep a transparent process, but um In looking at it from afar as a counselor who needs to make a decision on who to appoint Not just who to approve from some other body um, I've struggled with With what exact type of conversation could be held at the committee level because I I get we're trying to Empower our committees to bring us recommendations. You know, we don't want to rehash it here, but Not but feeling like I'm not sure we have enough information Um, I know there were interviews, but we didn't really get any information about what was said in the interviews Even of those that are being Recommended for us to appoint um I'm also Unsure exactly whether In that discussion for whether to recommend and who to recommend and bring those recommendations does as a council The committee could actually truly discuss all the applicants. It sounds like There couldn't be an actual discussion about all the applicants in that meeting Which then makes it hard for me as someone who's trying to vote on this to understand Whether the applicants that are being put forward as those recommended could truly have had a good conversation about are these the best ones and the best um mix for The time at this time. So I've struggled with Not necessarily who's been put forward, but Has this process done what? We as counselors need it to do and so you know I'm not sure I have enough information. I'm and I'm glad to hear you guys are going to go back and look at this But that makes it hard for me today to come up with Am I ready to vote? And also I'd like to hear how that conversation and committee Could take place and whether the committee members felt like that was an adequate conversation However, it occurred to be able to flesh out This is Whatever has come to us and might come to us in the future. We have a couple more coming Has been adequate If you're ready, I'm going to refer to an old process. So for 20 years We've been doing it roughly like this And we've been keeping them private and the body that appointed which was the select board when it wasn't the town manager directly The select board did not know anything more than what was on the cafs And a select board member went off and interviewed people And made a recommendation and the rest of the select board said we saw all the cafs Some of which have almost no information on them some of which have a lot of information on them We never discussed the group And because they were personnel records so therefore we couldn't talk about exactly what you're talking about Which I know are the kinds of things executive session screening committees talk about because I've been part of those too But associated with these kinds of appointments It's absolutely true that you are only getting that much information It's also the same amount of information the previous appointing authority got. I'm not saying that makes it adequate I'm saying it's not less Than what it was before and so that's why we've talked already in our report about We see a lot of different issues here Partly because not just the things that we had to deal with to make this work, but also because this is 2019 This is a different time Maybe we need to be looking at yeah, okay We carried forward as much of the old processes we could because people were used to it. They'd put in their applications 18 months ago but After this moment in time I think that this committee is extremely dedicated to and you can certainly ask us to report back And we certainly have every intention of doing so once we get through this round of interviews for this and the other Bodies that are supposed to be appointed by the town council by july 1st To have those conversations and to come back to you and say It's looking like this. What do you think if we try doing this? What if we went to a completely open process? What would be the shortcomings of that? What is a way that in fact the counselors Who aren't in the interview? Because the other counselors at that are on oca know no more than you do about any of those applicants The only person who knows anything about those applicants that isn't on the caf is the one person who's bringing them forward While that's always been true. I understand that may no longer be satisfactory to people But that is the same so moving forward. What could we do? Executive session is one option But again, it requires more than twice as many it requires twice as many Applicants as slots and we have committees that we didn't even get twice as many applicants as slots I want to correct I want to correct one impression The caps that were considered were ones that we received as long ago as two years ago up to the present. Thank you Steve so I've said this before At these meetings, but I think the charter anticipated sort of a what I call the goldilocks solution so On one hand you had the old process which is The voters elect the select board who appoints the town manager who appointed the planning board and zoning board of appeals So the meetings I went to regarding this a lot of people thought that that was too far from the voters The other The other end was our neighbors who directly elect the planning board and the zoning board of appeals And a lot of people thought that would make the It too political. So we don't these are permitting bodies. We don't In Massachusetts, we don't elect judges. So that's too That's too direct the compromise was In my mind the voters elect the town council who select the Planning board and the zoning board of appeals. So now the voters are only Two steps removed from the appointment So what we've gotten and this is nothing this is not a critique This is a critique on where we are and it's different than this chart But where we've gotten is The voters elect the town council who elect a president Who appoints a committee oca? The committee alexa chair the chair nominates the interviews. So now we're You know, we've honestly we've created a incredibly convoluted system We don't have any better information. In fact, we probably have worse information than and this is no We probably have so we're really completely flying blind And so we're either relying on personal knowledge of some of the people in both of the pools Or I don't know what we're relying on but I definitely am not comfortable voting On something where we have such incomplete information Also, there are a lot of reappointments on the table. So there's really a orca, you know Outreach reappointment the killer will so So So we have no idea why some people are being reappointed and others aren't did they get Unfavorable reviews. Did they you know, did they not fit a profile? So in other words, it's really really puts us in a really really hard place. I think So maybe I should tell you what I actually did as interview designee, which might answer some of your questions and at the same time Um, no one is more painfully aware of the drawbacks of this than is your interview Designee although I will tell you that I feel that I gave you Besides some personal comments people made which I don't feel it was my job as an interviewer to bring to you I gave you an incredible amount Of information. So let me just tell you how I did it and then we can go from there and so one of the things that I will say is that As designee, I had to know what I was looking for before I even began an interview Which started with asking oka themselves. What did we think were qualities that a person on these boards or committees? What should they possess which is what I wrote in my report to you Although I could repeat that if you wanted Also, we contacted the chairs of both of these committees and said to them What are the qualities and qualifications that you would be looking for including? What are the qualities and special qualifications you're looking for that would actually strengthen your group? So those were things that I was looking for going into interviews I also had the what we were called the yes or no chart which you have been provided And also what I took into consideration what I I felt was um And I think we talked about this a little bit the ante kind of touched on it was How are you then looking at the the health of the entire border committee? What makes a healthy border committee which? Granted I did come up with on my own and you also have been provided with So armed with those things I went into interviews the the people who are interviewed were given a packet ahead of time which gave them Um the interview questions ahead of time which gave them an information sheet about the border committee including What the time commitment was what the board actually does? And uh meeting times lots of information they would have about and in the website When I went into interviews I Very deeply was thinking about what every single person had said to me what they Were looking for when I went in set the tone Everybody was told the very beginning that The staff liaison was Was there that that paul our town manager was there? But that I as the oka desani was the one who was asking the questions Although my my lovely counterparts could answer questions So I did these interviews I did take my own notes um I went back and I made spreadsheets. I made a venn diagram with a paper and a really large glass um And I really thought about balancing all of these things and I also thought about manju joe sitting here and saying How would I know you know like what is the information that I have? um My computer had a my computer had a hiccup and I sat down and I pulled my first all nighter Sense college and I wrote down As much information as I possibly thought that I could give you Without telling you some things that had happened that granted I felt were Were personal and were also about Like applicants that I was not bringing forward. So yes, it was very very difficult for me um I I filled everything out. I really bounced it. I really thought about What I felt fit into what everybody wanted and would also give you great applicants and would also Balance out the board. Um, I can answer any questions that you have later about Why I picked who I picked? um But I think if you look you have an incredible amount of information about what I did why I did it and um the pool that I had to Choose from Now I feel like I've just rambled on and on but um, so When I brought names forward one of the things that we had talked about was that we would not bring up the names of people who were not on the list which um Now I'm finding that that's That caused a lot of frustration um And I understand people I think what I understand about people in general Is that I can give you almost all of the information that I possibly can give you But I'm thinking that given um The inquisitiveness of the public and of this council That I could give you pretty much almost everything But unless every single one of you is sitting in an interview. I'm not a hundred percent sure that I could give you Enough and I think it's the same issue with the CAFs where I'm not sure if you sitting in those interviews with me would have changed your mind or not um If that actually would have given you more information, but I realize that people are really deeply feeling that They have like they need to satisfy more of their their own questions I need to make a note that Amherst media is recording They have both the video and the audio but is not being projected on channel 17 Correct. Thank you. Sorry Yes, Andy So I'm going to touch on another subject Which is I think the reason that I'm not comfortable making it taking a vote tonight and would Support the third of the motion so it was mentioned Sarah mentioned that I had talked about Being aware of the health of a body as we go through an appointment process And she touched on it in her May 8 memo to the Okay committee at the top of Page six and this is a healthy multi-member body So a robust number of members who have served over a year And I guess that for a body like The planning board or the zba or many other bodies The question of a year Is not the only Qualification for what is it? Members makes for a strong multi-member body Because There needs to be some group that brings Knowledge and history with it and really understands What the border committee did over a long period of time What the legal basis was and the reasons for having taken the action that it did When I looked at the planning board And I looked back at who remembers In january of 2017 In 2018 But going back to 2017 We had a number of very Senior people who have turned over from that committee At this point, we only have one member who's been appointed before 2015 who would be on the committee if we Take the recommendations of Oka Without giving it further consideration Um for those of us who were on the crc the community resources committee and attended A meeting that we had a joint meeting with the planning board's Zoning subcommittee We the um my observation was is that that one experienced member Was able to provide a lot deeper information and a lot of history that was just otherwise not have been available to us during that presentation and So in bringing this up, it is not a reflection on the on our committee And it is not a reflection on the people who are being recommended it is um Sort of a request that a little bit more thought be given into the entire pool in making sure that The value of At least a member if not a couple of members who can bring that kind of institutional history To the process without having all of the institutional history belonging to staff Um becomes um something that is considered in this discussion Evan So one of one of the things I want to first say is a lot of people are practicing their statements with We know you guys did a lot of work and this isn't against you and I for one in not taking any Uh critiques personally, uh despite being one of the people who I think very strongly championed to this process That we now recognize as a lot of Flaws um, what but one of the things I wanted to say is that uh, I think this is a really good discussion that we're having Um, one of the things that we said to you a while back when there was a discussion about whether or not, uh You all wanted to vote on our process was we said, let's bring forth Recommendation let's run the process out Let's bring forth recommendations because we don't know how it's going to work until we run it And then we ran it and even the members of the committee or it will be the first to tell you We recognized a lot of deficiencies in the process that we didn't Necessit some of which we anticipated some of which we we didn't and so Um, our our our comment to you has always been let's run the process Let's bring forth recommended appointees Um, and then if you feel as though you are uncomfortable with the process Uh, that would be a time for you to look at the whole picture what the process produced What the process was and make a decision about whether you wanted to move forward It is may 20th these recommendations In theory should be done by June 30th We have two meetings between now and then right and that was intentional We intentionally brought these to you on may 20th and not June 17th Because we wanted to make sure that if we brought forth recommendations that you had um Some some questions about if you had uh concerns about the process It gave us a full month To to continue those discussions. And so I want to just sort of put that out there that the timing of this was very particular Because we expected this debate to happen. And I think it's good. And so I'd love to hear from everyone About their thoughts generally Shalini you had your hand up so Okay, I'm just going to keep it at this one question. Do I have a broader question? The the more direct question is why were there no recommendations for associates for the planning board? I'm sorry repeat the question. Please. Why were there no recommendations for associates in the for the planning board? Okay, because we haven't had associates for the planning board for over 20 years And this fact that our by-law says that we can have them didn't mean that we had to make them And as I said, we have not appointed them for over 20 years and as far as we know We don't have a complete legal picture of what they would be allowed to do under the law Okay, then I can I do then I I'd like to hop onto the broader question because when I was looking at All the can the caps and I made a huge matrix as well. Sorry to repeat the work you all did But what I was looking at is how do we make this stronger? Which of course what you were doing also? And what I felt was that looking at What was in the different experiences and Of the different candidates which was compelling and it's amazing and I'm so you know excited that we have Such great expertise coming in but it felt that we could make the current pool The way it is right now the planning board and we could make that strengthen that and make it stronger if the For the time being while we in transition we continue with some of the people who are there and who have the expertise and then bring on two more people who Would then be the associates and can be You know sort of there for a year and then Because in talking to some of the people what I've heard is that it takes at least a year in the planning board to understand things And we don't want to lose some important expertise during this transition time so it would be great to strengthen it by Keeping what we have and adding two more associates to that Steve So I too have been pondering the associate question. So we on the planning board know That it's in the zoning bylaw that two associates can be appointed to the planning board So the fact that we haven't done that Doesn't mean that we can't do it now the charter specifically Also allows for associates. So as far as I can tell this is completely me speaking Without is that associate members are defined in two different places One is a master law and master law specifies that Cities and towns can appoint associates to the zoning board of appeals and to the planning board But only to act on special permits and only if someone's Full member is absent But The there's it's silent on whether or not you can expand that So I have I did look at other communities such as Cambridge, which allows full voting rights for Associate members of their planning board except for The one part where it's restricted on Where it's restricted by master law voting on special permits that has to be Followed that but then they've expanded it to everything else We're in the middle of a rules discussion I think that this should be part of a You know a rules discussion, but to me that seems like a really good way of handling this transition Kathy I just want to speak To because I am new to this process, um, you know the planning board in particular, but I looked at the recommended names And who is currently on the board and we have six returning people three are already on And three who are coming on will be Serving second three-year terms often or two-year So i'm looking at a group that has Anywhere from three to four Years experience already and within a year will be five So I don't think we're bringing in a brand new group. In fact, there's only one person that hasn't been on the board before I was impressed by the ability to Juggle this because our guidelines in the appointment handbook say If there's someone who's been serving a first term Give them a second term unless they really don't want it if there's someone that's been there for two full terms If there's a qualified group behind them Bring someone new in that that's a general guideline on so an institutional Knowledge I totally value But in my own experience if you are Willing to work really hard and absorb like a sponge And as a youngster I was thrown in to national health policy and asked to redesign Medicaid And They said come back in three months and boy did I know Medicaid in three months. You know, it wasn't impossible It was you know up against a wall, but you can learn really fast if you need to So the balance of bringing only one person in with a bunch of people who Six that With these appointments will be building up even more expertise. We're not starting new here. We've we've got a skilled Experience group that are quite varied. That's the other thing that's they're not all Architects or not all lawyers and not all engineers, you know, I can imagine some other ways we might enrich it in the future But it's it's a it's an interesting mix of what they've done in their life in addition to serving So I I think this does have experience I just want to erase the idea that we don't have any institutional knowledge here Other other comments Sarah So when I was looking at When I was looking at this whole board I took into consideration a lot of different things um Again as Kathy said I had seen a chair that had been there for two terms and I also took a look at the fact that I was only changing one person bringing one new person Along and to me it added a fresh face And I also chose a person that I think by looking at their personal qualifications showed that they were a quick Study, so I I don't think that we're looking at a a dearth of experience So so And we've never we we haven't had associates in 20 years This is really I know it's in there, but this is news to me And no one asked me to look for it And it to me it seems also from what I understand an associate would not only had have no vote Would only be brought in in very very rare occasions So there really isn't much of a chance for that person to be brought along So I think that we should sort of Think about that I mean per per mass law as well Are there other comments? Darcy I also know the the charter doesn't speak about associate members So, um, I think it would Oh, it might be problematic If the charter doesn't allow for associate members They're not mentioned in the charter the charter silent on the issue if it's silent on an issue then it is not illegal It is in our zoning by-law It's in the zoning by-law. Yes, and it's also in the charge Of the committee for both from that we got from Doug slaughter When with a huge packet of committee Charges in there if you go to the planning board, you see that there are also associates allowed Yeah, I I'm just saying I just I clarifying What's allowed or not allowed? Okay? And I just wanted to say that That I found Sarah's report Really well reasoned I think she did a really fantastic job The amount of work that she put in She Her Reasoning was very fair She looked not only at people's qualifications But she really looked a lot at whether there was still going to be a base of institutional knowledge left on the board She looked also at whether or not there would be a balance of opinion Uh a diversity of opinion And that's um You know one thing that of course I think a lot of us saw during our campaigns That there there is a difference of opinion out there in our community. There there is um You know a variety of views about How the planning board should do its work? and um I You know, I recently visited my Uh my sister-in-brother-in-law. He's on uh the select board in Southfield, Connecticut And I asked him how they appoint committees Um, and of course he said well, we we just have certain slots for The democrats and certain slots for the republicans and they fill them Um, so I said, oh, that's interesting So I just feel like uh, we need to have more of a balance on the planning board for to represent The views that we have in town of all of our residents we we saw that During the campaign like I said that there are a lot of people Who feel like there should be some change? and Sarah could have come to back to us with a totally New slate of members of the planning board With four new members So that you know There would be a total change in the balance on the planning board But she didn't do that She it just is proposing Like a very very modest change to the planning board one member change um And that member presumably would Help to add to the balance Of the planning board so that we would be A democratic body. We would be more representative of The people in Amherst And their views So I'm hoping that this body Will think about that and take into consideration that we We don't want to be a body that's just Appointing people that have one point of view We want to be democratic I'm going to Ask that we pause for a moment And just summarize. We have three different conversations going on. Okay One of them is the process itself The second is the appointees That are before us tonight are recommended appointees before us tonight for the zoning board of Appeals and the third is the recommended appointees before us tonight for the planning board And we will take those up individually. We are not voting on the process, but we've had several comments on that We this is an item that does in fact include public comment And so I'd like to see a show of hands for those people who plan to make public comment Okay, when you come forward, please Say your name where you live and Keep your comments to no more than three minutes. Mr. Greeny Yes, you also need to sign in You did sign in thank you very much. Wow, you guys are really working I think it's good to sit here. I can hear you and see how hard you're working. I appreciate it You really have something to work out in the process. I don't even want to touch that hornet's nest But I do want to say that I favor as open as possible a process What makes the quality of our community? is the people The buildings are important, but the people are more important And you want People in Amherst to feel included in their government Please you know that So participation and inclusion are essential So just keep that in mind I represent a demographic that feels either unrepresented or not represented at all And I think a lot of people feel the way I do So There's privacy and transparency You know that the the word of privacy is going to imply some negative things And if I'm going to accept that this Urgent issue of privacy is necessary. I want to know how many people applied That wouldn't have applied Because of the privacy issue. How many applicants are we getting? So if you really want to Go with this issue of privacy you need to have that information because I have to say I don't Imagine that there's a lot of people that aren't applying because of privacy Also, I'm it another extreme I truly absurdly Was expecting that there were going to be three new appointees out of four people and that The idea of institutional memory is important, but fresh new Perspectives and creative ideas are what the planning board needs. That's my own opinion Thank you Thank you for your comment The gentleman with the hat on Good evening art keen district five I'd like to offer three comments for your consideration as you move forward in evaluating your appointment process As well as for the decisions that you're going to undertake tonight First a plea for support of term limits and diversity I believe that term limits are a necessary component of good government And I urge that they be officially adopted and maintained for committee appointments And I urge enforcing them with equity and consistency I understand the comfort that can be found in simply reappointing the same people Reappointees already know the gate how the game is played They already know each other. They've worked out the complexities of working together They require no orientation and can reliably predict how others will behave speak and vote Without term limits those currently sitting on a committee will inevitably appear more qualified than those who are new A healthy multi-member body is one where no single person is indispensable Without consistently bringing in new people a body can grow stale and it can easily become an echo chamber Bringing new folks in at regular intervals can bring in new ideas new perspectives New energy and provide a framework for training new and sustainable leadership Failure to do so discourages public participation A diverse body that includes those who have been traditionally left out Will strike the public as that includes those who have been traditionally left out will strike the public as more open More democratic and more trustworthy than the same lineup year in year out The one new person nominated to the planning board would join members with combined experience if I've added this up correctly of 18 years On the planning board adding a tiny bit of new to a lot of continuity My second point is transparency and you've already dealt with a lot of this The existing confidentiality requirement has handcuffed oka and its deliberations about the candidates and several of you have already Committed on this It has constrained oka and indeed the full council from comparing details of those candidates who were nominated With those candidates who are not While some members of oka have taken a public stance against the one new nominee to the planning board Judging her as unacceptable We are left without a process for sorting out what this means If some counselors find a candidate acceptable and others do not How's this to be sorted out in a way that illuminates? The factual basis for these different judgments while ensuring that the candidate is still treated fairly Without a public airing of candidates qualifications all we're left with is hearsay and innuendo and so Okay, finally just a word of in support of janet since people voted against her In establishing a list of desirable characteristics of board members There was a lot of talk about the need to appoint people who can work well with others And I want to say from my own experience that there's no need to fear janet mcgowan's appointment in this regard During her time in sound meeting town meeting. I saw janet work time and again With some of the most challenging personalities in the organization Getting them to work well with others and together to get stuff done This is what she does for a living. She's a professional mediator And I suggest that any board or committee that she joins will only become more effective as a result of her presence Thank you for your comments, right? Yes more keen Also from district five and I just want to say I've been sitting through the last four or five of these meetings Watching the council tie itself into knots over this process Obviously, there's something wrong with the process you talk about Balancing transparency and privacy, but I don't see any transparency in this process And new people aren't comfortable with the amount of transparency. There is either So I do think this process is mightily flawed I think relying on one person no matter how conscientious Sarah is or to make all the decisions for everybody else is wrong for the council is wrong for the town And I hope that there will be a more open process in the future. Thank you for your comments additional comments Yes, come forward, please Hello everyone, uh jack jumpsack. I'm in district five Um, I'm on a plane aboard now And I'm just wondering if the email that we sent was in everybody's hands with regard to Our comments. Okay. Well, so I just want to say What my concern is This is not about individuals. Jennifer gowan is certainly qualified That's that's not my concern, but in losing greg stutzman. I'm very concerned That we're losing the most senior person on the planning board Um, we already lost a couple of people that had 10 years plus experience Steve schreiber being one Rob crowner, uh, the planning board requires quite a bit of Work to get up to speed And and understand and be able to critique the projects that come before us Um So From my perspective, I I'm just concerned that we'll be losing our current chairman Who has only been chairman for six months, but he's got six years six strong years. I've been on for two and a half years And I'm learning and there is this this learning curve I mean you talk to every person on the planning board It takes a lot of time to understand the technical nature of the bylaws that that that we're reviewing And you know each project, uh, we thank god that Amherst plain department are very well qualified. So chris breast really And her department really helps us do our job So that's a concern of mine and then just on top of that we shrunk from nine to seven I know that's not a big deal, but We we we have less people now than we did before And I'm just and I think The show on Yeah, I'd like The thing with the term limits, you know, that's that's a separate issue, but Sometimes it's important, you know that I think the the term more than, you know, the two terms be considered Uh in the in the situation because getting qualified people Is not the most easy thing I I came And I I was asked to be on the planning board. I think I was interviewing for another committee position there there There are a lot of people that are interested in what happens in town, but You know, you want you want good people you want qualified people and and And tell you the truth. I never even I never think about You know, democratic or republican aspects of zoning. I mean, we're looking at technical Aspects of a building and there's nothing political about anything that any decision that we make it's does it comply uh with the zoning by-law and If there's a waiver, is it reasonable or not and we try to you know protect the town we try to Uh personally, I mean I'm Uh Yeah, I like seeing our tax base increase in the downtown area, which was you know part of a One of the only areas that we can kind of densify um And I'm just I have my email here. I'm just I was looking I didn't plan on coming up here, but um So and and and there was a talk of the associate position I would also uh suggest that there's a possibility for our zoning subcommittee as a As a like a spawning ground For people but right now we only have three positions That are filled by existing planning board members and The zoning subcommittee could grow With additional members. There's I don't think And you know, what a great area for someone to Get a leg up on on what future Tasks would be required of a planning board member So I just wanted to put that out there as an alternative to an associate Position in terms of getting uh having Additional people that would be ready to go Or be better prepared to go on you know day one of a new appointment And then all this comes, you know, why is experience important? Right now we I feel like we've been uh We've been waiting for the charter to to come along. We've been waiting for the council to come Along and be appointed and and right now. I didn't realize how easy our job has been and now it's about to get really hard And you know, we're and we're nervous about that. We got the master plan and And we have the zoning issues that again everything has been You know and in a little bit of a hiatus. So that's where this experience thing comes you know and That much more important, I think To me personally anyway, so Thank you for your comments Is there anybody else who would like to speak at this time? Yes, christine. Hi christine grand malon. I'm on the planning board um Everything that jack said I agree with and I just want to add that I really feel it takes at least two years to come up To speed on the basics and move from being a beginner to an intermediate So really what we have right now is one senior member who is an intermediate Standard practice in massachusetts according to mass general law it suggests three to five year terms with no term limits And america's gone the conservative route and gone with three years But what happens if you stick with the two term? You never get anyone past six years, which is not the norm If you have two terms with five years then people have ten years of experience So what happens is you get a few players that have because people do move on and leave and you know life happens But it's critical to have a couple of those senior really experienced members who remember And what's happened is we had a bunch of these and we've lost three or four of them over the last couple years So what we're we're remaining with is one senior member Who is an intermediate member and we really count on him is the chair Because the chair is a very important Leader for the group And if he leaves we're left with all six with less than four years I myself are one of the two people who are three and a half years in And I am vice chair right now, and I don't know if I would be but if I was chair I feel like we're a really green group and Like what's been brought up There's a master plan that's very complex that will have to be worked on in the next few years along with uh new zoning and I think Our concerns came up before we even knew I mean we still don't know who the applicants are and even before the memo of recommendations came out That had nothing to do with why we're concerned So please consider that Um, I personally would really like to see our senior members still on there for another three years And and get up to nine years and then a few of us up to six And and really to loosen any concept of two terms because I think there should always be an open door to having a couple of members Who remember and know and can help the junior members Um, and just the last thing a little point of fact, you know, there's a lot of this like turnover. We need new Um, just to remind everyone the two buildings of concern that Were so much brought up last year. It's one ep and kendrick place Six of the seven members were not even on the board when those buildings came So six of us never had any any more than you did on input on those buildings And so please keep that in mind. We already are mostly a new group And as jack was saying, oh, you know, I didn't realize we've had it easy lately. Well because there has been a lot of Limbo and waiting But we're finally coming up to a time and you all know this You're six months in I mean, do you feel like in another six months? You'll be ready to really know everything and take the wheel Yeah So please feel your own And think of us and we're asking you we want what's best for amherst We want quality projects and we want quality rezoning and a wonderful master plan. Thank you Thank you for your comments. Are there any other comments at this time? Okay, we're going to return to the council. Let me just suggest that we move off the process Knowing full well that we all feel we need to take a hard look at this process And that other issues that have been brought up To which the council does not have a policy and that is the issue of term limits Okay So those are two things for a future discussion Um, the issue of associates Is in part there and part not because we do have associates that are being nominated for the zba and the opportunity does exist Though they have not been nominated at this time for the planning board So is there any other conversation about that before we move to the discussion of the actual slate of nominees? Yes Evan so I think the real question Before we move on off the process Is for the members of the council who do not serve on oca Do you feel as though you have sufficient information? Based on our process to make a decision this evening Because I think that was going to to some extent inform the next discussion that we have That's a reasonable question to ask some people have already spoken to it. Are there any other comments on it? I just have a question. Um Can we decide To have a larger planning board than seven? I mean do we have can we make that decision? It is according to the charter. It is seven people. So it can only be seven. It can only be seven according to the charter It can have associates Because the charter is silent on the issue of associates Okay, and and then just actual charge That is presently under which the planning board operates Allows for I believe two associates Yes Mandy joe I'd like to actually clarify that. Um The transition Article in the charter set as of the date the charter passed The planning board to seven members and the zba to five members until such time as Some other number might or could at some point maybe be adopted and I put all of that in there Um, it's in the transition article. I'm I if you give me time. I can probably find the wording Um Let me find it. Um But it The charter commission recognized that it Currently the the mgl allows for various sizes of both of these boards and that Amherst prior to adoption of this charter had set those sizes by Charge Not per the town government act And therefore they worked the charter commission worked very hard to Reset the size based on comments The charter commission had heard from the public and from the board For zba. We didn't follow the board's comments. We followed the public's comments for planning board. We Heard a lot about about reducing the size But wanted to not put it in a portion of the charter where you would need to amend the charter if a size Did not work out. Um So in theory It is 10 7 n Page 33 of the charter the status of the planning board shall be as follows shall be seven members as of december 3rd 2018 and shall remain such size until and unless the town council adopts a measure increasing or decreasing the size um As a former charter commissioner, I would urge this council to give seven a chance before it even considers Modifying that number and the charter commission Talked long and hard about what to do with that given all of the comments. We had heard about Both planning and zba and so my position would be Because just because we have a difficult vote coming up We shouldn't go and try and change the number immediately. We should see how it works, but The charter Does not prohibit the size from changing Thank you Steve yeah, so I completely agree that this is not the time to You know raise it back up to nine because we have a hard decision in front of us But it definitely is a time for us to consider the role of associate members so, you know again Master our laws specifies what it can do, but it isn't specific. It's restrictive that it Only comments on special permit, but then it's silent on what other things the person can do And so what we learned in the zoning Sessions that we had with the planning staff Is that things like site plan review are a construct of the town. They're not governed by mass general law And we also learned that their quirks in the zoning bylaw Were absolute numbers are stated rather than than percentages like rather than say majority it might say There must be a super majority or at least five So associate members in that case play a really key role in making sure that there's enough people at the You know at the table to actually vote on site plan reviews and special permits While we consider rules changes. So I'm urging us to consider associate members as sort of a compromise solution between Some very difficult decisions that we're we're facing So So what we're all hearing and I think we can all agree is that we want participation. We want residents Enthusiasm to be you know, we don't want to curb that and we are so lucky that we have A really existing good group of planning board people who are willing to put an extra years into it And we have very good residents who want to join the committee So if we step back and see what would make our existing planning board stronger Would it be doing what is right now proposed or would it be? Taking what we have and adding two associates What would make our planning board stronger and I would urge us to really think about that as an outcome like our goal is to To do stuff that's better for amherst And this is obviously in recognition of all the work that's been put in but again, we are work in progress. So I'm hoping we'll keep an open mind Alyssa I think it's important to recognize that under the privacy laws that we have been we've imposed upon ourselves here We don't know As a council Which people filed cafs who later withdrew cafs who later expressed disinterest in the body It is not reasonable for any of us to assume based on the existence of a caf Whether or not a particular person who put in a caf is in fact willing to continue to serve That's not a public statement. That's not a public document So I believe I heard you just say someone's still willing to serve but we don't know that as a body because We don't know if any of the people who originally put cafs are continuing in the process So that's one point the other and I know that makes this is that really complicated pretzel part of this Because if you wanted to do that, which I'm saying right now I'm confident the future process won't look like this But if it was Even if you were trying to like nibble around the edges So you get your first caf pool then somebody moves. So then you tell everybody on the council somebody moved Then you tell somebody on the council. Ah, they didn't really want to interview you tell the council that then you tell the council Uh, their interview they decided to pull out after their interview You're not getting any of those updates at this point. And so that's part of it. The other issue with the associates is i'm unbelievably Object to the idea of on the fly After 20 years of not including associates to think we can decide ourselves at a town council meeting Based on what you know about mgl and what I know about mgl. Just go ahead and do associate members So let's not do that But i'm totally open to the fact that our zoning by-law right because i'm also on by-law review and That the measure that Mandy joe speaking of is not just we say here We want nine the measure is to change the zoning by-law to say how many we have because the zoning by-law says how many count How many members we have right now? so That is a fact and so It it is. I mean That's a fact. So that's the measure that's being referred to as a by-law change It doesn't mean we can't change the by-law and that's fine But to make up an associate as a I'm sorry. I'm very frustrated to make up an associate concept on the fly when we in fact don't have a complete legal definition In front of us feels very uncomfortable to me. I am totally willing to consider that soon I just don't want it to muck up what we're doing right now I'm going to sit pat Since we have not heard from you. I'm recognizing you I don't always recognize myself One of the things that I do know And everyone in this room probably knows is that change is difficult I feel strongly that We need to think not now about associates not now about nine members, but Mr. Stuntzman Is the person who is Leaving the committee if if we vote for this these recommendations Which I am planning to do is to vote for ochre's recommendations My feeling is knowing him after only watching him work at one meeting Why can't he be invited to be an advisor a non-voting member? Not an associate but an advisor to the committee I think Given who he is that might be something that he'd be willing to do and that's an assumption on my part I do not know the man enough to say that because that way we can save institutional memory and experience And we can also honor the work of ochre and the recommendations that are being made I'm going to ask that we move on to the votes Let's see where we get to Okay, we're moving on to the slide that shows the zba okay This is the appointment recommendations of the zba for the zba that ochre has put before us Do I hear a motion? So i'm going to read the motion that's on the sheet. I assume right Thank you So I moved to appoint the zoning board of appeals under the amherst home real charter section 2.9 c for terms commencing july 1st 2019 Mark parent whose terms will expire on june 30th 2020 Thomas simpson and matthew wilk whose term shall expire on june 30th 2021 Steve judge and jone o mera whose term shall expire on june 30th 2022 and associate members aron arsello Sharon waldman and tammy parks whose term shall expire on june 30th 2020 as recommended by the outreach communications and appointments committee Is there a second Vandy joe seconded that further discussion I have a question. The associates all have a very short term Um, could you explain the reason? Is there history on that one lisa? That's how associates work. They're one of your terms. It's just in for zba They've always been one-year terms. Thank you. That's my observation. I'll need to reappoint it, but yeah Can can I just ask my other question? Could they be more terms or is it just we've always done it that way Could they be two years? We would have to change the bylaw and we're not going to deal with that tonight Thank you. Okay I don't know We have to explore that and look at it another time For now, this is the motion before you. It's been made and seconded. Are there further questions? Okay All those in favor of this set of appointees for the zoning board of appeals, please raise your hand And that is unanimous Okay We're moving on to the um Next one, which is the planning board? It's the next slide And do I hear a motion? Andy We're going to move to refer the planning board appointments back to the Oka committee Is there a second? Would you like to speak to your motion, Andy? I think that there have been a number of very important questions raised today about both the process The composition of the committee the input we received from a couple members of the planning board and my own observations that I had previously stated about experience and what is the definition of experience and I think that they merit a little bit more consideration And I think the best place for that to happen is in the committee Are there further comments regarding this motion? Yes, Steve? so Here's my concern is that I think that all the public comment was regarding Basically One particular slot on the planning board that's currently held by the chair Numbers one three and four did not elicit any discussion at all And I'm wondering if it's possible If the maker of the motion would consider simply to I'm way beyond my Robert's rules of order But if it is possible that we can at least dispose of the ones that seem to be non controversial that would take an amendment Okay, so then I move to amend the motion to refer Number two Back to Oka But to approve as recommended numbers one to three and four Is there a second? Yes Does Robert does any type of amendment rule allow a motion to refer to also include a I was about ready to look at margaret and say margaret. What do I do here? Would you like a recess? I think so. Let's uh have a recess Now is your bathroom break and we'll figure out where we are. Thank you Okay, just to recap we started with a motion to refer The entire planning board recommendation recommended appointees back to Oka That was made and seconded. We now have a motion On the floor that has not been seconded To refer Back to Oka The recommendations all except for parry Rahi expiration 6 30 21 Maria chow expires 6 30 22 and jack jamsky jamsick. Sorry expires 6 30 22 That motion's been made do we have a second? There's no second the motion fails So at this point the motion on the floor is to refer The entire Recommended appointees slate back to the planning board Is there I'm sorry to Oka for the planning board That would solve the problem. Uh, I'm sorry Okay To refer back to Oka The planning board recommended appointees the entire slate. Is there further discussion? Steve So I think sending back to Oka without instructions is really difficult because Oka has given us this recommendation Come back with the same recommendation, but I think that we could give them work like to consider What an associate does and to add that to the roster? So One of the recommendations are one of excuse me one of the ideas is that in sending this recommendation back to Oka that they would explore the issue of Uh associates what they might do Is the idea that they would then come back with added names for associates George I've heard two Clearly two very strong things listening To this conversation which has been very enlightening at least to me And one is that a very eloquent plea by two members of the planning board To keep someone who provides leadership and continuity and a sense of as we said institutional memory And that seems to me a very good thing I've also heard very clearly and eloquently expressed desire to have new voices and fresh voices on this body the chair The Oka does it knee Sarah was very I thought very thoughtful and eloquent in saying that if she was uncomfortable understandably was simply reappointing the same body again And so she presented I think a very forceful and strong argument for the case that she made Which we're now struggling with I could not vote for that because I could not bring myself to Throw overboard Someone I felt was desperately needed for this body and you've now heard two members of that body speak about that So I hear two good things that I would like to do both And I feel like I'm forced into a corner and if I am forced into a corner I'm going to vote the way I voted on the original recommendation Because there was a minority report and two of us voted against this recommendation for the planning board I would prefer to vote yes for both But at the moment that doesn't seem to be an option So if it does come back to this body back to Oka I would expect that we would have that discussion if the council so wishes where we would try to see if there's a way To use associates to broaden the base of this body And and still preserve what I think is something extremely important, which is its institutional memory And it's it's expertise. It's knowledge base So um, I feel caught But if it comes back to us, that's what I'd assume we would be doing I'd be like to hear what my fellow members think we would be doing if it comes back to us Kathy um, I When I'm looking at the people that have been recommended to us I actually went out and googled each of them And particularly the new person that's being recommended that would be new on the board and I found an incredibly talented person with a very rich experience both starting with law and law clerk Internship, but then moving from a series of issues environmental indigent and Indigent people and then moving to mediator. This is a person who works Really well with new tackling new issues and she's a long time Person who's been participating and watching the planning board So I think we've been proposed a very strong slate What I'm not sure is if people are saying The one person who has not been recommended for returning whether they would rather have one of the returning people Not be there and have their chair continue, you know, so it's focused on one new person We have an alternative um We just have a very strong new person being being Proposed to us. So it going back without giving some guidance We've we've got a good group So what is our guidance? Are there further Hold on sarah steve So i'll do respect to Kathy I the nightmare solution is we're all we're all here googling the candidates because This should be we should be getting better information. This we have a responsibility to You know the planning board is a very important board for the town and we shouldn't be relying on The other person doesn't have the opportunity to be google because he's not on the list. So I have no idea which one is the better I have no idea what's been mentioned earlier if there's a diversity of opinions. That's all 100 percent hearsay We have no idea what these candidates stand for. There's been no litmus test. We don't know If what the ideology of the two planning board members that spoke earlier are so we're completely shooting the blind We're not doing our fiduciary duty To be to making a reasonable appointment here. I'm Completely uncomfortable with this process. I'm also uncomfortable with referring this back to oka because It's oka that has given us You know these names So i'm wondering if there's another solution which is to simply Punt the decision for a year and come up with a better process for next year sarah So I realize that i'm really really close to this process right and i'm hearing what everyone is is saying I will say that from We haven't had an associate to the planning board for 20 years from what I understand The associate would have little they would have no vote and they would have little or no contact actually with The planning board now that could be different than what I understand it And I would need to understand it if you sent that back to oka Then we would need to then somehow figure out. Do you want one associate? Do you want three associates and what actually do they they do? To me what it really feels like we're saying right now What we are saying now is that Of a whole bunch of people would like to have the board return the way it was And you're offering a like A completely almost completely undefined Associate membership To someone and it feels to me like What you I understand everybody wanting to be kind to one person But you're not actually offering them anything of substance that would help them along And and I really would feel like if you brought that back to oka Then we'd have to really kind of think long and hard and also define what what an associate means Pat I feel like It's starting to sound to me Kids who didn't get what they wanted. So let's postpone Let's postpone the work has been done. There have been recommendations made I think that we need to move forward now and get this committee working not Wait a year to so I can have what I want Or you can have what you want or you can have what you want I think we need to address these recommendations now And be honest about it stop Stop playing games Dorothy Just following up on that It was mentioned earlier today that we had a very talented town planning staff That can aid and guide the planning board. We must not forget that and The person who is not being reappointed in this Proposal if we clarify our term limits and clarify how long a person has to be off the board before they can reapply We're not saying that this person's expertise will be lost to us forever. We're saying We need to do add we need to add somebody new and start bringing new people on as well as keeping on the experienced ones So I don't think that it's that we have to think that we're Losing that expertise, but we need to clarify our term limits policy and have it in place when we do this again Andy So let me get tried from a slightly different perspective and then I will let it go to where it goes In my work on the finance committee Has been interesting for me. I had some hesitation about coming back to the finance committee After having been on a prior finance committee And having chaired a prior finance committee But I agreed to do it because I felt that the committee would benefit from a long-term institutional history and an understanding not just of What we do, but why we do it and why we got to the place that we got and I'm glad that I ended up Saying that I would be chair of the finance committee even though I was Originally looking to do new things as a council counselor as I think all of us were And it's sort of in the same vein that I'm concerned and expressed my prior concern because I think we've heard very persuasive arguments that go along the lines for the planning board with my experience was with the finance committee that the finance committee Takes several years and the planning board apparently takes several years To really gain the kind of experience and depth of knowledge that is really required to provide the guidance and leadership In history that is provided that that is needed for a board or committee and that's what I was trying to express at the beginning and I don't want this to be about one or two individuals. I wanted to that's why I would Prefer that the committee kind of look at it If it get if this passes and look at the whole process to think about those issues And maybe even delve into them a little bit further with members of the planning board the other thing is Mention was made about planning staff Providing the history and I think that for me that's like the finance committee providing the history that Do we want the history to come within our citizen members of Boards or committees are within our professional groups And what is the consequences for us if we take the view that all of our history should be What is provided to us from the professional staff And then that's the other aspect and I did mention that earlier But I thought it was because it was mentioned just now. I wanted to Bring it up and just touch on it a little bit more fully. Thank you Evan So there's there's three things I want to say two of them should be brief One is that you know, I like Sarah. I'm very close to this process. I helped develop it Every diagram you've seen I have put together But I'm also not necessarily here tonight to be a staunch defender of the process Especially because my my main interest has been What do you all think we just did this? And I heard from at least five maybe six people sitting here tonight statements of concern about the process and also statements that they did not feel like they had enough information And so I'm personally amenable to a motion to refer back to oka specifically because We intentionally put this on the agenda for tonight so that we would have time before that deadline So that if we heard the type of concerns we heard from the council that we did We would have the option to reconvene as a committee and discuss them And so as a committee member although I don't want to assign myself more work I am not opposed to this coming back to the committee given The number of concerns that were raised tonight and given number of things that were said My concern would be of course is if you refer this back to oka and we meet on june 3rd Which would be our next scheduled meeting where we could discuss this I think that the five of us will sit down and go so it was referred to us What now and so should a referral come should a referral pass? I think the committee would benefit from Some guidance as to what you're looking for us to do But I do think it's not an unreasonable request to come back to committee given many of the things that have been said tonight Including by people who support The the the number the the candidates who have put forth but who have said I'm supporting this but I don't necessarily know that I have enough information which I've heard But you know, I wanted to speak because uh, george spoke a little bit Obviously anyone who read the report knows that this was a 3-2 vote George spoke about his vote. And so it seems only appropriate for me as the second of the two to speak of mine I understand The loss of institutional knowledge But I think that it's important at times to bring new members into committees I'm really supportive of the idea of bringing new new blood and new people into committees When I looked at the pool of applicants For planning board I didn't see it And I thought that when I looked at the pool I felt that we had a pool that was really lacking in candidates. Um, because I didn't see new voices We're defining new voices as people who are not on the planning board To me, that's not a new Voice right a new voice is someone who's new to the conversation And so if we look at this town council, I think that we've been working really effectively and one of the reasons is we have some people Who have been doing this for a long time Right, we have some people who have been doing this for several years But there are some people on this council myself included including the person to my left and some people across from me Who who were really brand new to the conversation and politics in our town? And I think that we've benefited from that one of the reasons I voted very strongly in favor of the zoning board of appeals Recommendation is that there were some truly new voices. Mr. Wilk was on there if those of you who read his bio He graduated UMass in 2017. He's not been at all involved in town politics. He is literally a new voice I just finished doing the interviews for rank choice voting, which we'll be bringing to you in our Probably at our next meeting. There were new people truly new people who were said I have never been involved in the town's Politics at all they were new voices What I saw on the pool of applicants for planning board was not new voices What I saw on the the the the pool was old voices I saw old voices who are on the planning board and old voices who are not on the planning board Um, and what I mean by that and that's not an age thing, right? That's a What I mean by that is I have Only paid attention to town politics in the in the recent past and I recognized every name on those cis And to me that was a problem. I didn't recognize every name on the zoning board of appeal cis I didn't recognize every name on the rank choice voting cis There were new people who were brought in and so to me if we're going to say we want new voices and new blood That doesn't just mean someone who's not currently on the committee That means someone who's bringing a truly new voice to the conversation But every person who applied whether they were on the committee or not has been in the conversation for a long time my vote was to My vote was basically to say Oka didn't do a good enough job recruiting for this committee and we need more time to do so We have been very focused on the appointments process We have not focused on the outreach and communications part of our charge yet And I think that was clear in the lack of new voices in the pool and in the lack of diversity in the pool I think we need to recruit more people. I think that we had Uh an insufficient pool and so my personal preference in my vote was Was to Basically say let's take some more time. Let's try to recruit a stronger pool. So we have a larger pool of candidates From which we can derive Some new people I'm going to step out of my role as president and speak as a counselor We started down a very very tough road in this town when john musanti passed away And then we moved on to a new form of government And in that form of government we moved on to a different construction of various committees planning board and zoning board being among those And during that entire time Once we voted on the charter that we now live with We were not allowed The slack board was not allowed to do any appointments unless it was absolutely necessary So with the planning board which had Nine people lost one because he came on the council nice to have a little experience in planning over here They lost another because of his own illness and they lost a third because he stepped down because We needed to get the committee to seven So that's one piece Another piece I want to share with you and that is I'm probably one of the people that is most guilty of leaning on andy steinberg To pet up finance committee because Not only as president of this council, but as a counselor I needed That strong knowledge That andy brought I needed that history And I needed to know that I had him to to rely on And for elissa I say the same We have our moments Right elissa But we sat down just the other day and worked through a timeline for how to evaluate the town manager We worked through a process to take it back to oka. That's important for this So my message back to oka Should we refer Is to consider History is important. I even have a minor in history Okay I actually Really disparage people who feel like history is not important History is very important And I ask that you also seriously consider the possibility Of going with the bylaw and with the charge to the committee And in a rapid order and to any way you know, I will help Figure out what an associate would be like and how you would do that I embrace Your efforts. I have watched sarah Struggle through this process I have gone to more oka committee meetings than any other committee except for finance And so I applaud them in the effort that they have made and I know That as we're done with this whole round of appointments As a council we will come back with a much better process that the public will Enjoy Thank you Pat Thank you for your eloquence It was quite moving honestly And I value history But history like everything else gets distorted And we buy what we want to carry and say it is true And I don't say that lightly to you at all My feeling very strongly is that you're right. We can spend time to create these associate positions Uh, but I do not think that should impede or stop The vote tonight on the candidates that have been recommended Okay Mind you show so I'm gonna have struggled with what to do with this Decision for a couple days now. Um, but I think we've been Tapping around that might not be the right word the real issue here, which is this vote is politics This is we, you know, we haven't said it but Planning board does deals with planning and there in general are two views More than two views, but potentially two camps in town about how to look at that and One of and the discussion between This in a sense is do we vote for someone that some of us may or may not agree with their views on and others May or may not agree with their views on or do we vote for someone else who may or may we may or may not agree with We should just put that out there that part of the reason this is being hard is because it really is about politics um And some of us were put and elected and ran on certain views for planning and zoning and May feel our votes here need to reflect that um a referral Basically says we don't like that pool come back with something else. I think because we can vote on this this recommendation tonight and Oka can still come back with a recommendation In a week for associates or alternates whatever you want to call them that are already in The z the zoning bylaw and give us two more names to start that process So referring back is essentially saying we don't want these names. We want different names That's not necessarily different from just voting on the names One thing I would like to know is Can associates chair committee they might not have voting power, but they might be able to chair um at the zoning The charge that I read and I read it very briefly just says that there are two non voting associates And then that's then it's like silent. Um, but it's there. It's allowed That might be a way to keep some Um experience on this committee, but I don't think We should be referring a matter back to a committee just because we want to avoid a vote on names Because that You don't want those same names coming back if you're referring it back just admit it And then vote on it And admit that right now we could just have oka come back with two associate ones if we really want associates I still don't know what i'm gonna do But I thought I'd just put out there that it really is probably about politics and whose views we think best represent our views Alyssa So just to be really really clear because I can see that steve's already going to argue with me What cambridge does what other people do with associates is completely irrelevant to this conversation right now Right now. We haven't had them for 20 years. We would have to define it My fellow colleague on oka. George thinks we have time to do that. I disagree completely Um, it is there is only one thing in mass general law that it says Planning board associates do Other communities do other things with them But you can't just decide that as the appointing authority that they get to do those things this We don't get to write their charge The old charge documents. We do not get to write the zoning board and planning board charges. Those charges are old Garbage pulled together Over years that we'd never fixed over time. It's one of the things we probably need to look at But it does not they don't address the actual associate job And so that does need to be a process whether you think we can do it quickly I george can say we can I can say we can't But I do think that needs to be clear if you do vote to refer If that's what you want to come back to you as part of this In addition to supporting the things that my colleague mandy joe just said when I was flabbergasted to hear that Zoning was not political because that certainly has not been my experience in life Steve so actually No argument here, but I was but I was going to talk to my colleague from district four and saying maybe this is an age thing But when you get to be my age There are a lot of new voices on here So there are people that I count a number of people of the seven here whose introduction to town politics was through the planning board So basically they've been involved in the conversation for three years And it's actually an extraordinary group. So I might be in a privileged position where I know every single one of these people reasonably well and You know, I think one through four are extraordinary Candidates, so I feel that I'm privileged to know You know each of them in a different way and I think they're great And I think that the other cafs that are left on the table also had some great people there so I I'm twisted in this argument as everyone else's because I think that one through four are highly qualified for this And so really my dilemma here really has 100 to do with the fact that We are just getting we're like the draft that's finally gotten up, right? And so now This is all going to happen in four weeks and particularly our CRC community resource committee We have responsibility of a master plan, you know a backlog apparently of zoning bylaw changes and the person that has that Inside his head is not on the list. So that's really where my dilemma is. I'm all for change. I'm all for ones through four You know, I think they're great But I'm also for number five who's not on the list. And so I don't know how to reconcile that especially through our responsibility of being The keepers of them along with the plan where the keepers of the master plan plus the the group that's working on zoning subcommittee I'm sorry zoning bylaw issues Sarah So I'm still hearing everyone and and like I said, I'm close to this process and I said I wasn't going to take this personally And obviously I did but I also did say that Once this is done and over with and we all agree on it. I'm just leaving it here and I'm moving on Um, I think it's because I really gave this so much Thought that it seems like it's my I guess it is my baby Like I do feel in some ways like you or you know, you're kind of like you're poking at my baby or ears are too big or you know Like so what I'm going to say is for me I realize where this conversation is coming and I know what Mandy Joe is saying and in part that is You know, is this political someone came right directly at me when this When I made these decisions said well, obviously this is political And common sense needs to reign and I somehow that kind of rankled me just because I felt like well I think that in the whole world, especially farming and everything else I do common sense is the thing that Drives me So this whole could we all as a team have to figure this out and and I totally get that I just want to say when I sat down to try to figure this out I I did want to bring in someone new and I totally hear what Evan is is saying But it wasn't political I do think we have to look at terms if you disagree what I say with that and you think that it's uh It's something that you know, we want to bring you know Experience along but I also did have to think about And I don't know if this is political or if it's just like when you say like I'm really listening to what my constituents say So I do think there is there is a Feeling out there of some people that you know, and I it's I don't not respect our planning board or our zoning board I do very very much I just was looking at I felt like it was still a strong committee and obviously I'm going to you know to listen to them if they say They don't feel like they are I did feel like they were strong and I did feel like there was some merit of putting Someone new on and I guess I guess think about that and try to remove yourself from either personal feelings or political feelings because I really felt like that's what I was trying to do And I'm not opposed to you know, if people are saying, you know, we want to vote to keep it all the same or you know I think we should you know, keep a space open or let the it stay the way it is for a year until we increase the pool But when you're doing that, please try to do what I did which was sit down and say to myself Am I creating a healthy board that also is in response to what? constituents Want and if the answer is no then that's fine, but I I I ask you to not make it political There's a question before the council And it is a question to refer is there any further comments on the question to refer? Back to oca the planning board recommended appointees If not, I'm going to call the question All of those in favor of referring the slate For the planning board recommended appointees back to oca. Please raise your hand The motion fails Oh, I'm sorry I'm sorry All of those Please raise your hands who were in favor referral And keeps them up one two three four five five opposed two three four five six seven Okay, and abstain so it's five seven one So the motion fails I'm waiting to hear the next motion that we accept the recommendations for planning board from oca Okay, that specific motion is actually on your motion sheet and needs to be read Um, so it's to appoint the planning board under the immerse home rule chart Charter section 2.9c for terms commencing july july 1st 2019 Rhea chow And jack gem sick whose terms shall expire june 30th 2022 And parry raya and janet mcgowan whose terms shall expire june 30th 2021 As recommended by the outreach communications and appointments committee the motion's been made by pat. Is there a second? I will second it. Okay further discussion Motion's been made and seconded all those in favor of approving the slate as presented to you here opposed Abstain Motion passes and that is our new appointees to the planning board yes Can I move to refer the discussion regarding? Associates slash alternate members whatever we're calling them that are listed in the current planning board charge slash bylaw To the oca committee is there a second? Shallony is seconded is there further conversation? I didn't hear the to what? To the oca committee But The motion's been made and seconded Yes, please repeat the motion. I move to refer the decision the the discussion regarding associate members as stated in the current planning board charge to the oca committee Mandi, would you like to speak to it of what you think there to do with it? Sure, I'll speak to it. I there there is in the planning Planning board charge a listing that it can have two associate members. I would love to See oca committee come back with should we appoint them? Should we not and if so who? And what their role is I don't know whether that's part of I mean the charge says there can be two associate members Okay, I don't know whether we define the that or whether the planning board once they're appointed defines that but The charge allows for those members Alyssa So No, because I want it to be referred to gel That's where it belongs Because it's actually an outgrowth of rules and bylaws and it absolutely will be something that comes Because bylaws interacts with mgl in terms of what can associates do we know they can do special permits We're not sure what else they might be able to do and then what we can make up is probably planning board regulations rather than The town council thing so I think it's gel's the motion is made and seconded that it be referred to oca the Can you please let us know who seconded that? Shallony yes And the discussion now seems to suggest that this might be the wrong committee Is there further conversation about that? Yes, Steve, I completely concur that it's not an oca issue it oca deals with actual humans for actual slots In my opinion and gel deals with more policy Yeah, I actually see that as a friendly amendment to the idea we need to okay, so If somebody might want to make this as a friendly amendment That it be referred to oca instead I'm sorry to gel instead gel I will make that motion and is there a second Kathy is a second is there further conversation So the point of my motion was to essentially have oca come back with names for associates not for a decision on What do they do and so that should not be in gel that should be an oca because the charge allows for associates so I want associates appointed And so I want oca to come back with names So you meant recommendations of names no recommendations essentially I think I think the issue that we're dealing with is some feeling that there needs to be Okay, this is the planning board. These are associates. These are what associates do This is what associates should be appointed for it's all around our governance That would involve planning and associates and then it would go back to oca for those appointments That would be my observation So the motion on the floor Is to refer this to oca I'm sorry to gel I hate acronyms to refer to gel Bandicoot, did you accept that? I haven't I think it's a motion to amend to refer it to gel instead of oca Okay, it's a motion to amend this that it be referred to gel instead of oca But here's my problem the way the original motion was they were supposed to Debate it and come back with potential appointees gel would not do that so I think we need to have a couple withdrawals and clean this up I withdraw my motion whatever it was. Okay. All right We're withdrawing strike the record We're gonna start over I'm going to make a motion that this be referred to gel to define The Associates to the planning board their role their purpose their terms And that subsequently It would go to oca For recommending appointments to those positions Is there a second? Pat Pat Further discussion Um, I just have a question for mandy joe Is that okay? I got I kind of got the impression that you were bringing it up as a possibility for the current planning board chair To possibly Have that position as associate member and continue to be able to advise etc I was I thought so That's clarifying my motion to refer to oca so that maybe some appointments could come back I got that I got that ability to participate Other than vote Work fast We made we meet again on june 3rd Do you need to take a vote on the motion? Yes, we do Yes, Evan So if i'm understanding correctly What's being thrown out right now Is we will tell gel That gel has to come up with What the role of associates is Is that Is that so my first question is Would that require a change to the zoning bylaw? Would it not right if we're zoning bylaw allows for associates Right, but if we're if we're we're essentially then gel is telling the planning board What their members are allowed to do is that what's gel is coming back to the council the council is the governing body of amherst The council can say to the planning board These are associates and these is what this is what they do And now we turn it back over to oga and oga comes back to us with names It seems to me and that's a throw another wrench into this It doesn't mean they shouldn't consult with a planning board. It just means That the planning board does not make that decision But isn't not an interpretation of the zoning bylaw The zoning bylaw says that kind of have associates and then we're saying We're going to read into the zoning bylaw what those associates can do and would that not more reasonably sit with crc No, look i'm on oka and gel i'm just trying to get rid of that. No, no, no I No Steve yeah, so Maybe we need a cooling off period because I think the The urgency of the associates had to do with a particular situation, which is now dispensed of And I think that we need time to Disp- Yeah, so I think we need some time and I think we need to consider the zoning bylaw revisions that we're going to get any way You know inch as a whole so this can definitely be part of that but shallony but also the depth of the bench so Yeah, shallony What I heard was that having the associates would allow us to still address the Some of the issues we were having earlier on with the Retaining some of the institutional Memories so it is still There's a motion on the floor The motion on the floor is to refer this to go well to define associates including length of term And then to have it come back to the council and refer to oka for nominations to those positions Yes This is as steve said this is motivated by a very particular situation the council has just voted and made its decision So I think the issue has been decided I don't see any point in pursuing this any further Unless planning or someone else comes to us and says we're really excited about the idea of associates The idea of associates was brought up this evening as a way to deal with this what I saw as a dilemma Um, the decision has been made. Um, so I think at this point it should just be dropped Not referred to anybody and I'm on oka and g.o.l And if it comes to either one Shalini I think if you're getting more people to participate in this very involved committee, why not? I mean, I'm a big believer as you will see later on for bigger committees that have big charges So if we can get very Experience and intelligent hardworking people saying they want to join and we're like no, no, we're done You know, and if you have that option to bring in two more people, I don't see why we wouldn't Dorothy I'm agreeing with george Um, I think that the question of associates is one that we will be discussing and thinking about in the future But I think that um, this kind of quick moving to this committee that committee has a very rushed look about it And um, I think that we want to go back to something that was said earlier Which is much stronger outreach in reaching for New people to participate. I I think that some good steps have been made in that I think the town managers appointments whenever they get Brought up that I think he's done that. Um, I see some new people being put forward but um So I I would not be for this Of sending it to this committee and then that committee at this time Any further discussion Call yes, mandy joe I just want to reiterate that the current committee charge says non-voting liaisons two alternates are normally appointed I don't see how without modifying that charge gol could do anything to define what associates do but with But the council could appoint Two alternates as of today because the charge says Right in it two alternates are normally appointed. So we could do the appointing But I don't think we can define the role without formally modifying that charge and That's if the council wants to formally modify that charge to define the role Versus allowing the planning board itself to define the role then it should come to gol, but if we actually want to Put alternates on this board We have every right to do so under the committee right now. And if that's the case then it should be going to oca for recommendations to the alternates All right, so the motion on the floor is to refer this to gol and then for definition and then back To oca. I'm going to call the question All those in favor of that referral process raise your hands To gol and then back to oca Okay, the motion dies Nose abstain all right Any further discussion on this at this time? Darcy I just feel compelled to say one thing about old voices Um, because I think that they're You know, we have all these people who served on town meeting for years and years Probably four or five hundred people in town counting all the you know, most recent and former members who have a massive amount of knowledge and and expertise and understanding of town government And I really don't consider them old voices I think that we should really be taking advantage Of everybody and they can be associate members someday. That would be great, but I just wanted to say that Thank you. Any further comments on this listen I was just going to ask quickly if at another time perhaps not tonight We wanted to do some outreach as a council through you or another body Of this council to talk to the planning board about they know how they're legally allowed to use zba associates So when we explain that to people in an interview we can say these are the kinds of things you would get to do I will be glad to do we don't know that for planning board associates. So we could ask them Okay, thank you Any further conversation on this moving on to the next So we're going back to the original order of the agenda where the next is the Discussion of the gol committee charge We have slides for this Mandy joe Thank you I'm going to try and keep this short because the slides nearly identically trace What I wrote in my report and I'm sure everyone read the report gol for a long number of meetings has just been discussing its charge and the scope of its charge and so We have some wording up there in bold Italics that says review and make recommendations on matters referred to the gol regarding policies actions or measures proposed For action by the town council for which no other appropriate council committee exists to perform such review We don't know what to do with that wording number one And so I've put three options there that the gol committee discussed one is ignore it Don't do anything keep everything as is the second is to Put that language into A new standing committee And the third is to add that language to gol So margaret the second slide so Oh, she skipped option one which is do nothing The reason we've been struggling with this is gol has noticed that a lot of ad hoc committees have been being formed and gol in its discussions believed that The council should have a place for every measure that comes to it for discussions on policy and substance and By the formation of lots of ad hoc committees It is clear We don't have a standing committee place for everything that comes to us and so what to do about that If you like what we've been doing, which is ad hoc committees, you would stick with option one Which keeps that but You know keeps more standing more ad hoc committees coming It maintains and i'll get into this in option two it maintains gols a non-policy considering committees So can we get to the second slide? Thank you We ran into a dilemma The dilemma is create a sixth standing committee to handle Measure proposals that don't really have another standing committee to go to Or put it into the gol charge and the gol committee didn't know what to do And where it would fall because creating a sixth standing committee has the benefits of We're keeping gol Truly a non-policy considering committee that just looks at clarity consistency action ability on measures Without regard to whether we support or don't support and whether the policy is good or bad or we believe it's good or bad And we believe there are benefits to having a committee like that But the drawback is it creates a sixth standing committee and we are all already on multiple standing committees And you can see 23 appointments already to not standing committees and at least 11 To non-council committees and seven on an ongoing basis adding yet another committee of five members puts a lot of pressure on us So we didn't really like that option per se, but can we get the third slide? Thank we didn't really like this one either Which is revise the gol charge to put that into that language into the charge Which makes gol kind of the committee a last resort Other phrases have been Bad bandied about in committee that I won't use but um the benefits are every there would be a committee for everything a standing committee for everything The drawback is gol would no longer be a neutral reviewer And so that's that's basically the whole thing. I don't think there's any other slides. Are there no no that was the last one and and so we Ultimately after multiple meetings said what does the council think and so can we have this discussion in the council to see where the council might be Now that we've got multiple standing committees formed. We've operated for a couple months Where might the council be and so that's why we're here tonight asking you guys to give us some of your opinions on this I want to point out that this is an item for discussion not necessarily for vote And the floor is open for discussion Kathy I potentially like your option three with A slight variation on it As we were sitting on the rules of procedure ad hoc group We were looking across towns and there were all sorts of committee structures out there And what I think we might be able to do with this Is recognize where there's a cluster of issues that didn't fit anywhere And that might give you the definition of another committee or a way of splitting our committees and what we are proposing In our rules is that we look at our organization at least annually to say is it working? Well, you know, do we have the right committees? Have we split it upright? So this might Provide an alternative, but I would see it as temporary You know, so it's it's a way of thinking are there a cluster of issues and then see what they look like You know, if they're all over the place we have We have the collection bin The last resort thing so that's what i'm not sure what won't fit and we have this new one that is so broad Then i'm waiting to see what doesn't fit it Um, yes dorthy Well, I think if you make it they will come Um, I do not want the third committee. I like the option one I don't think we have to have a committee where everything automatically goes and I see nothing wrong with us deciding Appropriately when we need or do not need an ad hoc committee I think gol works When it stays off of the content and we've had this discussion at a couple of meetings already And we do appreciate the work that gol does But I think we don't need to have we don't need to be so tidy that we have an automatic place for everything We'll figure it out as we go along Darcy I would agree with dorthy. I I feel like it's a little premature. Um, I think that gol is one of our very most organized committees and um I I think you might be getting ahead of yourself a little bit It feels like, you know, we're We needed a number of ad hoc committees as we've been getting started, but As we continue we're probably going to need fewer and um I feel like, you know, we could conceivably look at this in another year and see if Something is needed but um I I also feel like You know gol is special in that it is neutral And I think that that is It's one of its strong points and I would like to keep it that way If at all possible and not get into content areas if possible Evan So as a member of gol I've been involved heavily involved in these decisions and um my colleagues on gol have been Not surprised when I say that I don't like any of these options And that's and that's a problem. Uh, I would respectfully disagree with some of my colleagues I actually do think that uh, we should have a home committee for everything I think it's important that when ledges I think it's important not just for us But I think it's important for the public who might be bringing forth petitions and policies to know When they bring it forth to the council it will go to the council and then be referred to A committee and so I think it's really important for us for the process and for the public that Anyone bringing forth a policy knows where that policy will go Kathy asked the question of well, what might not fit into this So I believe next on our agenda is rules and then we will be discussing draft campaign finance by a law being brought forward by Mandy Jo and myself that doesn't fit in any Committee that we currently have and so if you look at the agenda it says referral It doesn't say referral to any committee and that's because there is no committee to which that reasonably belongs and so tonight in You know Some amount of time we're going to have a discussion of what do we do with a bylaw that doesn't fit into any committee so I I would say I also Respect the idea that gol should be neutral I think it should I like it as a neutral technical committee and I think this puts the council in a really difficult position of So if we agree that every every measure should have a home And some measures won't logically fit in the committees we have Where do those measures go? I think ad hoc committees are a really bad way to go about doing things I think that it was fine in the beginning. We were getting our footing Ad hoc committees put an extra burden on us. We're already serving a number of committees They add additional committees, but ad hoc committees are actually really terrible for the public And I think when you think of public participation and transparency Um ad hoc committees have unpredictable meeting schedules They're hard to follow and so if we really want an engaged public who feels comfortable bringing policy We want them to know Where their docket they're where their policy is going to go and when that committee meets we don't want to just be Creating all these ad hoc committees. So I think it's I think I I don't necessarily I'm not lobbying for any particular option, but I do want to put out there the ad hoc committees Aren't great for public participation and also That there will be a measure tonight that we're looking at that that will will face this challenge with Additional comments Alyssa so I'm I'm gonna admit that I didn't spend hours pouring over this report. It's pretty extensive and I'm not sure I'm Ideally Really dicing it out the way I need to so I'll say what I want from the process And then you can tell me which one it fits in I want to be able to refer the campaign finance there to gol Or another body that isn't one of the bodies. We already have I don't think it belongs in crc I want Rules when we're done with the rules to go to gol and by necessity It's not going to just be technical fixes. They're going to be opinions that are involved just like there were opinions involved in bringing rules this far I want when by-law review is done with their work as specified by the charter that gol or To be named committee does that and if if those things go someplace else other than to gol like yet another standing committee Then I feel like we are really pulling that then gol just has less and less to do and I'm I appreciate their technical nature and everything they're being able to set up technically for us now But I think they can evolve into that thing and I've been assuming They are going to evolve into that thing for the purpose of rules and by-laws already And I'd love to see like we say things that we don't clearly fit in crc or that makes sense That we can send over to them. So I am totally willing to give up the idea of gol being neutral as it has been right now As part of our evolution. Could you please go back to the beginning slide? Okay, so the the Sentence is review and make recommendations on matters referred To the gol regarding policies actions and measures proposed for action by the town council for which no other appropriate council committee exists to perform such review An option one says do nothing Option two says create yet another committee option three says Revised gols charge so that it includes this sentence And I also just want to Again reiterate No committee of the council Makes policy For the council they recommend it back to the council So it's not like gol would be the last word Further conversation on this As someone who sits on crc and gol I don't want crc to become a dump And there are lots of things that don't belong in it. We're really going to be looking at the master plan We're going to be looking at ways in that the town is impacted by the decisions made by other groups So I think We should think about changing the gol charge Okay All right. So this is at but at this moment a discussion item However, it could be turned into a vote It's up to you So and I'm Evan. Yes I'm speaking on behalf of myself and on behalf of gol I don't think that I would prefer the council take an official vote on this But gol is in the process of reviewing its charge and I'm wondering and I would I would ask this of my committee members first If Much like rules had a couple just little straw votes If it would be appropriate for the non-gio ask the non-gol members just as a straw vote what they prefer I would never ask just part of the council to vote. It's either all council vote or not dorsi Um, it seems like a lot of you know new measures will come to us by uh counselors who have an interest in a particular topic and um I I guess I feel uncomfortable with everything being referred To gol that doesn't have another home. I think it actually does make more sense to go to an ad hoc committee made of people That are interested in that issue Which is what we've done in the past. This does not prevent ad hoc committees In my mind I thought that's what it was doing. I thought it was instead of ad hoc committees um So Yeah, my point is That I It it seems to me to to have You know to put too much power into gol to be the arbiter of all Things that don't fit somewhere else When I could see where I might want to be on a committee about some new measure Kathy a simple amendment to the Add words of appropriate council or or ad hoc committee would you know, so if we would Decide that we want an ad hoc committee we could Or we could just refer this particular measure. So we've got one example. I mean I think Leaving ourselves open to that decision when Events come up So campaign finance is a good example of one that you might just want a quick read on it rather than set up a whole new committee Or might not but I there's a way of so I think it could be fixed to not Imply there and shall never be ad hoc committees. I didn't read it as that The charters Does allow ad hoc committees and I don't think that we're doing this to create something Absent of the charter Mandy Joe do you want to speak to that? So the goal was to limit the creation of ad hoc committees not Prohibit them, but you know when you look at When someone brings a measure, this isn't necessarily a committee to create the measure This is a committee to review a measure that has already been proposed Which I think is different than a committee to create something we're interested in which probably should have maybe an ad hoc committee or be A more substantial policy committee But for something like campaign finance, there's other bylaws Where there's you're going to want maybe a pro and con review on the policy behind the measure Not just is it clear consistent and actionable? And the question is where does that policy review belong? And that's where gol was was debating A standing and I think any policy review like that My opinion personally is it belongs in a standing committee not an ad hoc committee We should have standing committees that can that are set up to review any policy that gets proposed to the council And so this was an attempt to figure out what to do with that with a recognition that crc has quite a broad policy review Charge right now actually for recommendations that language was Closely tracks the crc charge for that particular bullet point. Um, you can substitute crc and then proposed for action after that in the crc charge was All the different it was the like bullet point list of Refuse and energy and master plan. It was the list. Um, and so You know, these are not the only options These were the ones we were struggling over for a meantime because there were other options we as gol Mentioned and the report mentions that we didn't think were appropriate to bring forth at this time as actual options And that included modifications of crc's charge Which is why they're not discussed here because crc hasn't had a chance to figure itself out and so We thought that would be well premature to say We just created you and now you're too broad. Let's bring it back And do something else which is why this was sort of a at this point something to get us through maybe until that annual review And see so that there was standing committees to deal with all policy other other other questions or comments George so do people feel like there's this really big problem to which we desperately need a solution I don't have that feeling so Um, I think this is something for the moment when in doubt do nothing We have three options here. Let's let it sit for a while We may come back in four six months and we do our review and we'll come back to this and we'll say by god option three It's desperately what we need but right now I hear everything all over the map Including evan's point that none of them are good enough. So for the moment. I think um, let's let it sit Alyssa So is that a problem indy joe then for by Given the rules that we're going to talk about in a few minutes that say we're going to have automatic referrals of bylaws to gol and that if If there isn't some other committee that's also working on ngl It's just supposed to serve as the technical part if other bylaws are getting What where we So right now the gol charge Every bylaw does come to gol at some point But only for a technical review of clarity consistency and action ability So if that referral is meant for anything else it should probably be Stated in the referral specifically that for a particular referral That review is being expanded if this committee does not want this council does not want to create a new committee In the meantime if this language weren't to be added that that would be my thoughts I don't know whether that explained that clearly at all or not I'm just not sure how well interpret the rule we wrote that we're presenting later tonight if we don't change your charge So we're not this discussion was not meant to change the charge tonight. I will state that right now It was a let's a discussion only It can certainly inform our later agenda item as that item gets discussed Is there any further discussion on this item? Okay, then we're going to leave it as a discussion item. We're going to move on to action item 7a This is the proposed permanent town council rules And Alyssa and Kathy, I think the two of you are doing this Let me also say this is a committee as Many of you have that has also worked very hard to get to this day. Thank you for that Alyssa Thank you. And so Kathy once again made these slides because she's amazing and I really appreciate that So let's also give her extra credit for the fact that she had to do a track changes Even though it had like four versions and she went from one to the other and she so it's amazing So you need to all pull that version up right now If you're going to have any questions either the track changers or the clean version because otherwise I'm going to talk about numbers You're gonna have no idea what I'm talking about so We here we are we are almost done. We are almost ready to dump this on go up And because then the ad hoc will be done and it'll be great And there are some specific things that we have developed as we've done this that we've realized You know what? We can't deal with this right now. Let's put this on a list for go Well for future we don't know quite where we're going to maintain all these things in the future We want to have this amazing online system where everything's linked to everything else Let's refer that to go well to have them figure that out So we're putting a lot on go else plate whether we change their charge or not at this particular moment. So next slide Where we are is Apparently yes, so we already talked about this on the sixth We then at rules met on the seventh and the 14th to review your comments to review the comments from the town manager And the clerk of the council the track changes version 8 shows all changes from the may 6th version that was presented to you at council And the clean version accepts the edits I will not Read every word on these really beautiful slides just in the interest of time The things we wanted to draw to your attention this time You'll remember that last time we had this very clever highlighting situation where we were like Ooh, look at this special yellow thing and then blue plant things were points of decision Well, we've cleaned that up for this version And so now we are just drawing your attention to we made some decisions and so We wanted to clarify one of the things that came up in various comments For example as item one here allowing for council to amend the rules with one vote So we didn't have to have two separate votes. It's not a bylaw But to say we would have two separate discussions at at town council meetings so that you didn't if you missed one You weren't out of luck We would also provide for public dialogue sessions at the discretion of the council We changed it from being a requirement This was a new thing that we were very excited to do but we were scared of compelling it given the feedback We were getting so we put it in there as a thing we can do at the discretion of the council Item three we revised the time goals for council minutes for regular meetings as you know We had very aspirational goals around this We also know that there are limits to the space time continuum as well as staff time And so we came up with a compromise there For code of courtesy we went around and around for a really long time and I finally withdrew and said Okay, we'll just deal with it and we'll see what happens and we'll see if the president comes back to us and says You know we need a rule that would be more helpful to me than what I already have here But we'll just go with what we've got We made clear something that's been coming up over and over again tonight in terms of committee actions not binding the council That's in rule 10.1 And the another thing we were really excited about of course, we're excited about every single page But one of the things we were excited about was this idea of study and work groups Which were different than ad hoc committees and different than district meetings and different than lots of other things But because there are a lot of logistical concerns with how that works And we're all still getting our feet wet on how all the other required things are We put we're going to refer that to gol to adjust those logistical concerns To figure out how to best address those because it was still clear in the comments We got back from council that not everybody understood we thought they were super cool But not everybody understood what we were trying to accomplish there So we realized we could let that go for right now And so next steps We're supposed to have done these permanent rules within six months of taking office. That puts us at june 3rd That's our next council meeting And so today's the second review We could agree to adopt these tonight and then go ahead and dissolve rules as soon as they finish their minutes Which would be pretty quick because we've been really good about keeping up on that Or we could drag it out to another meeting if you'd like If you think there are substantive things that you saw when you read this That you feel like need to be changed or addressed then we have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow And we have a meeting scheduled for the day after memorial day because we love meeting every single week And we have been doing that for more than three hours for the last several weeks So hint hint we could be done But if we aren't done because there's something that you found in here that needs to be changed, please let us know Are there questions Kathy I don't have a question. But could you go back one slide? I just want to emphasize the number six We got a lot of positive comments on this notion that a committee could form a group to actually think about something Not make a decision could have non residents. What we ran into is How and who appoints This how many proliferates so it wasn't removing it all it's just Literally dealing with logistical So the only yellow highlight left in rules right now is a placeholder for this. We wanted to make it clear We didn't delete it. We just took that paragraph and said Figure out how we can make this work and we found it in a huge quite a few towns So lots of towns are doing this towns or municipalities. We're not breaking new ground here We just got enough of things like how we did do it this way that way So we just moved it to a placeholder So it's not gone for those of you got great comments back from counselors and a lot of comments were this was a good idea Can I also particularly thank margaret and paul for your intense review of this And you're working with us to make it even a better document. Thank you very much Are there further comments? Yes, andy Yes, I'm going to be really quick because one of the things that I really liked was the ruler trying to get out of here by 10 o'clock How so I'll make it very simple The suggestion was made that if we've observed things that we'd like to bring back to the committee's attention That we be clear as to what the process is to do that and then I won't have to mention them now Okay Further conversation or question Evan so 3.5 b1 I just the the Feedback you got from the town clerk was that that was a reasonable request to make all the votes public within one business day Yes, we we got feedback on what was feasible Um, and it was partly because they were recording them as we're doing it So you it could just be a xerox of what they have it doesn't have to be formal So we we pre-tested both of those Evan to make sure what we were putting in For when we get minutes, but also the votes can is this doable? So that was that what would be published is actually the motions along with the votes Any further questions Margaret did you or need to speak to them? No, I appreciate the council giving us Giving the town manager and me the opportunity to review the the draft rules and Considering some of our suggestions I also want to be clear for the public's information that the way counselors Submitted their comments on the draft was through me So counselors submitted their comments on the draft rules to me And then I in turn redacted all names all identifying information to forward it to rules of procedure Thank you Any further comments? Sure, Evan go ahead One one question I have that was in the comment But it was a question. So I don't know how you would respond to that way Was on 10.6 j I'm not clear what The phrasing committees have the obligation to be creative means and I It's one of those things that sounds really good. But when you tell me it's an obligation I want to know what that means if I'm obligated to do so and I have no idea How in my role as a gel member I can fulfill the obligation to be creative We do not want him to be creative Is there a response? I can actually remember where it came from we found it in another town group and we just we thought it was permissive So it may be just a wordsmithing to make sure that the notion that You can be creative here And it's both a right and we hope you will be so we could change it to Right and an expectation that you will be creative You know because I can understand, you know like was I creative? You were not very Yeah, I know I know so Yeah, we what we liked is that it it had a sense of if you come up with a new and different way of doing it Feel free to say it, you know Don't just try to say we've done it this way for 20 years or 15 years Think think through a different way of doing it So we can do a right and an expectation instead of the word We just weren't wordsmithing like crazy when we were doing All the other pieces Okay, let's hold on that one for a moment Additional questions Andy Since nobody answered my first question about other ways to get things across I'll just be real quick on what the two were that I would put in one is on 1.6 There's a very arcane wording that goes on propose Prior to final passage prior proposed amendments. So be read at two separate meetings I don't think that you're literally are talking about just reading them I think it's the question is whether you really mean reviewed at and whether the Clarification of language would therefore serve a purpose and the other just general topic I guess back to my Comment before about 10 o'clock, but in rules 3.2 and 4 0.2 I would Urge the committee to give some consideration as to whether more clarity should be given To the presiding officers Options in order to Adhere to the 10 o'clock Rule We allow certain Decisions to be made By the presiding officer in order to achieve that goal May I speak to that because I did actually attend this meeting though I'm not a member And we they went back and forth from this and since the presiding officer always has the right to rearrange the agenda Uh and move items around so that you could move all action items to be 4 10 o'clock It was kind of felt like this plus that Privilege if you will Was sufficient Andy And now I just suggest that there would be another thing that The committee could consider and that's giving the president the um right to Establish time limits for discussion of any particular item Probably subject to override by the council as a whole But that is another common Mechanism to move things along Okay, so so I want to under Alyssa So we specifically Heard that you said that we saw it in writing and we believed What lin just said in terms of we made it very clear in 4.2 Unless the president or presiding officer determines a shift in order will facilitate the process of the meeting We think that's super clear if you want us to add a thing that says and oh by the way I'm trying not to sound sarcastic The president has the right to determine how long agenda items are of course they have the right to do that So i'm not really sure where we stick that but if it's super important to a majority of the council Fine, but I think there's some things just like for example I said do we want to include a rule about the fact that the president is our press spokesperson? And I was told no that doesn't need to be in there even though some people would put that in their rules I feel like this is even more so something like that that of course I understand that the presiding officer gets to determine if we talk about this for 5 minutes or 20 minutes Subject to one of the counselors saying hey wait. Hey wait. Can we talk about it more? further comment Evan I have three more so I can do them one by one or okay. Go right ahead. So 10.7 a This is a question. I had last time we talked about these and I don't feel like I haven't answered yet So for jcpc and bcg Uh, we've taken those appointments in this rule away from the president who made them for the current committees My question is Do we anticipate it just as the council shall vote to appoint counselors to the following committees based on interest after an initial poll to ascertain preferences That's pretty light It sounds like it's up to the council to decide then what that process is Is there uh an anticipation that that is something that will go through oka and oka will be recommending appointees to those committees as the appointments body Mandy joe um So I'll I'll say two things to answer your direct question No, there is no anticipation that they would go through oka that it would be a full council decision without necessarily recommendations from oka specifically um Secondly, we're not taking it away from the president The council voted the jcpc and bcg appointments As their own appointments when they were made because we had town attorney opinion That said the charter said that they were town council appointments, not Presidential appointments. Um, we could if the council wants Vote to make them presidential appointments, which I we had a few comments about why not be the president and the rules committee kept them with the council, but But we haven't taken that away from the president But there is no anticipation that that Process would operate through oka that the anticipation is that it would be had a meeting of the council where those are decided So we'd have a poll there'd be six people who say jcpc and then as a council we would vote on those people what we did in the past was I Would take that poll and I would look for balance and I would Come forward with a recommendation and you would either accept it or amend it or whatever So is that how rules committee anticipated this would work because that still seems to me much like a presidential appointment We we didn't get to that level of detail. We could have number one We might have three people who want to be on jcpc and there are three slots. No problems You know in last time for a couple slots. That was exactly the case. So we we left it open without being prescriptive here so You know, it's a wait and see it was trying to make sure that we didn't Expand authority where it hadn't already been given if we were in a situation where There were people ready in eager to serve that we could have a discussion about it So we've left it open the way it's worded right now so 8.2 a The council shall specify a time period for a committee to report back So the the expectation then is every time we refer to a committee We're giving them a hard deadline of when they have to get back Um, is that the expectation? Yeah, we saw that comment Yes, we could tell that one even though the names are stripped off What we said was Make sure I got this right is that we said yes We shall specify time period that time period could be whenever you feel like it That time period does not have to be a certain date. It could be a period of time It could say before we're ready to do the next thing It doesn't have to be a specific date and it doesn't have to be like and we specifically didn't put in like 60 days Like we chose not to do that. We just said we should choose When we do that and if our choice is to say We don't really care when it is but we shouldn't forget to address that issue We should address the issue in some fashion I would just like to add that the committee fully expects the report could be something as simple as The committee hasn't been done yet and hasn't finished yet But it's it's a way to make sure it hasn't been that referral hasn't been forgotten. It doesn't have to be we're done with it It could be we're not done with it yet, but we haven't forgotten about it right And your next question The last thing is I I did want to say that I know i'm in the minority here in saying this But the decision to remove those present shall not engage in demonstrations of approval disapproval still makes me very nervous I I know that we like to think that clapping is fun and we like to be celebrated But I think it's very important to recognize that there are Sides to every issue and that one person's celebration is one person's is another person's loss My concern is and i'm just revealing what which comments were mine for rules and procedure because I don't care if you know They were for me My particular concern is not necessarily clapping with regard to actions of the council But perhaps from other things that could occur And so if you have a contentious issue and you have a put let's say there's I don't know Hypothetically an affordable housing thing in front of us and a public commenter speaks in strong opposition against that and gets Roaring applause from the audience Who is an agreement someone who's sitting in the audience who might be thinking they're going to speak in support may then Reconsider I think it changes the atmosphere of the room I think it changes the character of the debate and I don't think that just putting it on a posted agenda is sufficient I think that we need to have it in the rule so the president the president office her can use her authority to say Because in here it just says uh that disturbs or impedes that's sort of loose if you just finish a public comment and people clap That's not impeding because someone else is coming up It's not disturbing the order of the council Um, but it does change the atmosphere of the room And I think that people who maybe are in the minority in the office who might speak who might want to voice their opinion May they be then dissuaded from doing so other other comments Questions, yes, Dorothy. Just to respond to that Democracy is sometimes messy, but I hate to preempt the public's right to respond Are there other comments questions? pat I agree with Not having the applause for the very same reason that you're talking about that there are always two maybe four sides five sides to an issue um, my concern is that I think that's saying No, if I just I feel very strongly that we give the public Time during public comment periods to respond We get emails from them and phone calls, etc. Etc. I don't think they need to celebrate or more here in public Okay, any other comments Yes, Andy The rule of town meeting had against public demonstrations really worked very well at town meeting and I think preserved an atmosphere of mutual respect amongst the body and Just point that out as to a reason to tear to that Okay, further comments I hate to say it r. O. P. But I think you got to go back and come back of addressing the issues there was a few word tweaks I only have one I have uh the creative one. I don't have any other that need to change And this one that has just been brought up. So we have no because Okay, wait All right, hold on Kathy. You've been taking notes and Alyssa. You've been taking notes And Alyssa, you say you have the creative one. That's all I have is 10.6 J and Kathy yet, you know, so I have Some wording so write an expectation Andy's on archaic. We we can review it two meetings. I mean these are these are pretty simple word changes. So The presiding officer issue time limits We think we've given you those that don't think we have to write it in so I'm not The only one I really heard is there's still discomfort about not saying That we don't want public demonstrations One alternative we had thought is that the agenda itself would have a please refrain from public demonstrations kind of comment on it You know limit your comments to three minutes, but we didn't want to just put a kibosh on it So that's the only real substantive one. I heard the others Or we can edit and have it come back for adoption with those changes in it, but those are the only ones I heard I still only heard the creative one the arcane language We didn't necessarily agree was a change we needed to make and I didn't hear any agreement around adding in anything about time limits. So the only thing I heard was Creative and then this discussion that we're having again that I withdrew about Demonstrations, I'm not seeing any other changes to be made I think it's up to everyone in the room whether do we want the committee to go see a comment Madam president, would you consider a motion to approve? Yes, but then we're also going to have to deal with that creative issue Um, I think I have a creative I moved to it I moved to approve Okay, let's have a we have a motion to approve. Is there a second there is a motion in written here Hold on hold on hold on okay, the motion as it is is To to adopt the proposed town council rules of procedure entitled Eris town council rules of procedure draft may 14th 2019 as recommended by the rules of procedure ad hoc Is there a second pat? Any further conversation on that? Yes, I would recommend that we either Quickly wordsmith the creative thing or we accept it the way it is and we say someday Can can address a different sentence for that and just move on And so Mandy joe I would go with We're already potentially in the next motion if this one passes sending 11 10 11 maybe 12 things to gel Let's just add this obligation to be creative to that list and then gel can come back with A laundry list of rules changes to what we just adopted. All right so we're I don't think we need a motion to add that to your list. So the motion on the floor is to adopt the rules That a procedure ad hoc committee is recommended Is there there's been a made a motion and a second any further conversation? Yes, Evan. I actually think I would like to offer an amendment to 6.2 d to add the language that was struck those present shall not engage in demonstrations of approval or disapproval back into the rules Okay, so there is an amendment Okay And any further conversation on this Can you just be more specific as to where that's going to go? If if I could just ask the question, are we going which version are we going back to and is it audible or not audible? We've had several variations Go ahead Evan So I was looking specifically at the Lined out in red text those present shall not engage in demonstrations of approval or disapproval To me that means broad demonstration Audible not audible signs whatever if people would prefer it be audible I would be amenable to that audible got removed at one point. That's why you see that Okay, the motion right now. Please repeat it is that we restore the sentence that says Evan Those present shall not engage in demonstrations of approval or disapproval And there's been a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Call the question on that one that is to add it back in to the rules of procedure All those in favor opposed Steve were you counted as in? In favor, okay opposed And then there's one absent So that passes eight to four and one absent Okay Now we're back to the original motion which is To adopt that proposed town council rules of procedure entitled amherstown council rules of procedure draft May 14 2019 as recommended by the rules of procedure ad hoc committee Is there any further conversation? As now amended. I'm thank you very much as now amended Any further conversation All those in favor and that is 12 with one absent The second motion is to refer The amherstown council rules of procedure draft may 14 2019 adopted by the town council on may 22 19 to Governors organization and legislation committee for review of form content and organization with report back to the council Is there a motion? Kathy is the motion second. I will second that. Okay. I've been a second Any further conversations on that? Mandy Joe? I'd like clarity on this motion. Um, is this just so that it's sitting in rules in GL just in general or is this specifically for a declaration of clarity consistency and actionability because Well, we just passed it number one, but number two at Our may 8th meeting gl unanimously voted that the final recommendations of the ad hoc rules Of procedure committee do not need to be referred to gl prior to council action for that declaration Um, so if it's just to formally sit these rules in gl on a sort of ongoing basis Great, but if it's specifically For us to go back through them for that clarity consistency gl has Prevoted that we don't need to do that And my guess is just to sit in the committee and with the items that were left Um In a referral would at some point you might want to choose to come forward with them Yeah, and you know at least some of what we thought what it's missing a table of contents right now is You know hotlinks. There's some design features that need to happen to it before it gets posted So there is some consistency issues. Yeah, just I mean I we can tomorrow add the table of contents We needed contents to settle down before we created one So okay, I'm trying to decide we just passed these Which basically means your committee doesn't have to meet again So now it actually goes to gl and are we asking gl To in fact finish up the format and consistency Evan my understanding of the motion was that there was a report From I believe Mandy joe of outstanding rule issues That rules did not get a chance to cover Um It seemed to me that this would my initial assumption of this motion was that it would be essentially We're now taking over rules the wording of the motion does seem to suggest what Mandy joe said of a Review so perhaps the wording of the motion just needs to be edited if we were all assuming it was the former How it Please alissa. How is the motion? For given where we are now and given what we heard from gel So we're looking at our motion sheet. We passed the first motion How are motions two and three related? Can we just go with the third one and just not need the second one anymore? Because it looks to me like the material that was also in your packet, right the 11 items listed For consideration and report back to the council that's referring that to gel But I mean like Kathy said we'll finish now that we know what table of condenses will tell it to create a table of contents But beyond that I don't think gel needs the rules to do something to now to make them final They just reside with them in the future. But then what they do need is that third part Margaret Your thoughts I think the two can be combined You could do number three and then just do gel's regular work There might be some minor grammatical things that you want to clean up. Maybe a few formatting issues the two could be combined So are we withdrawing the second motion? Okay The people that made that motion. I think I made that motion so I will withdraw it. Okay. All right So then we're moving on to the next motion. Thank you for that clarification This is to refer to the governance organization and legislation committee the actually 12 items Listed in the may 20 2019 town council agenda packet document entitled rules recommendations for gl Hanna key 05 8 08 19 revised avb 05 16 19 for consideration and a report back to the council Is there a motion? Is there a second Let me note friendly amendment that it's 12 and the word Creative Is added to that list is there further conversation? So I would just comment even though I created this document and it had A title of recommended referral of gl that the first one on the list might more properly reside in oakah The first one on the list is create and recommend a document meant for the public that describes the different ways to participate in town government And particularly council matters That one to me appears more appropriate for oakah than gl since they are the outreach Communications and appointments committee So could you just send it to us later? Just take it and say and by the way number one belongs to you I agree with that for the time being would you please take this and if you feel that there are issues that after your review Etc need to come back to the council or on to another committee. We'll be glad to do that in the meetings Is there any further discussion? Yes, evan Out of curiosity per our new rule 8.2 a do we need to specify A time that joe has to report back as we said we shall do 45 days is the typical in the rules 8.2 45 or something is 45 days and I make a friendly amendment in 45 days Is that accepted by the people who made the meant made the emotion and a second to that? Yes, yes, okay To refer to the governance organization and legislation committee the 12 items listed in the may To may 20th 2019 time council agenda packet document entitled rules recommendations for gl handic e em 0508 15 revised a vb 05 16 19 for consideration report back to the council in 45 days Any further discussion Alyssa margaret help me out here, but I don't think we can say they're 12 items listed in the document that includes 11 items We say as amended the 11 items as amended as amended. Thank you. Is there any further conversation? technical or otherwise Okay, all those in favor and that is 12 voting for one absent and the final Is to dissolve the rules of procedure ad hoc committee. Is there a motion? Is there a pat that pat made the motion? Is there a second? It's shall any made the second is there further conversation? Let me also say with deep gratitude Any further conversation all those in favor? Should we designate someone to approve the final minutes? Before we dissolve the committee And elissa brewer will hit will approve the final minutes Punishment, right. I get it Um Because we're meeting tomorrow I mean rule why are you meeting? Well, I mean we have a posted meeting. We'd have to cancel it So, I mean the public would expect us to be there. So we could literally just go there I mean, we're going otherwise we're going to tell them to post to cancel Well, then we're not going to dissolve you. Can we say that we're dissolved after we finish the minutes? Okay How's that? Okay, let me try another amendment for pat to This is a friendly minute dissolve the rules of procedure ad hoc committee after their meeting On may 21st And this person that's seconded yes, is there anything else? All those in favor opposed none It's 12 In favor One absent Okay The introduction of the proposed local campaign finance bylaw We have a pretty a slide on this And there is the intent that this be referred I want to note that it's after 10 o'clock and I'm yawning Okay evan and mandy joe both Developed bylaws. I asked them to get together They did and then a Bylaw was forwarded to the Town attorney we've gotten opinion back on that with some minor tweaks But nevertheless, this is the first time this has come before the council evan I think the plan is for Mandy joe and I to introduce this a little bit. I'll speak a little bit to the rationale Mandy joe will speak to the actual bylaw itself. I'll try to be brief. I know we're tired And I know you're tired of hearing me tonight So I think that You know emers is in this exciting period where we have A new government and we have new elections And so we just went through the first round of those new elections with the town council We'll have our second round of new elections in november Which will be the first time that we have the entire school committee and the entire library board of trustees up for reelection or those seats will be up for election at the same time and then in November 2021 we'll have our final stage of these new elections Which is when we'll have everyone up at the same time under ranked choice voting And so I think this is a good time for us to think about how we do elections and whether we're doing them Effectively and so within that conversation Mandy joe and I are bringing forth this proposed Campaign finance bylaw that will apply to local amorous elections only and the reason for this or at least my reason for this is twofold One is that I think that there's an interest in a lot of people In breaking down barriers to entry to local government and encouraging people to get involved And I know that fund raising can often be viewed as an obstacle for people and that can be something that's very intimidating I know as someone who had never run for elected office before when I decided to run my first hesitation That was probably the biggest hesitation that almost kept me out of running was am I going to be able to raise enough money Against people who are well established who have networks already existing and so That's something that I dealt with and I think any new candidate will be dealing with That question of can I compete with people who perhaps already have existing donor networks? And I think that problem is especially compounded when we're looking at People who come from underrepresented groups or traditionally marginalized groups Who might not have networks of donors that have a whole lot of money? And so part of this is looking at Can we reduce the importance of money in these elections so that we break down a barrier to entry? The second part of the rationale is that right now our campaign finance limits contribution limits Are governed by state statute And that was applied evenly to every community in the commonwealth with the exception of north hampton who has their own local campaign finance ordinance That means that people running for local office in amherst have the same limits as people running for local office in boston And that doesn't really make sense to me. I looked it up And it's in the FAQ if you all read that that I think the the top Uh vote getter for at-large In amherst got 4 000 plus votes the top vote getter at large in boston got about 60 000 votes So it just takes a lot more votes in boston We're very different and so it doesn't make sense that people running for City council in boston are subjected to the exact same ones the exact same campaign finance limits that we are here In amherst given that we have a much smaller universe of voters to contact and so I think given those two things It made sense to bring forth To to to localize campaign finance for local elections To bring amherst campaign finance limits I think more in line into our values with regard to very breaking down barriers to entry And and more feasible For what we actually see elections look like in amherst and i'm happy to take any questions in the rationale But I think I'd right now. I hand it over to Mandy joe to talk about what the by-law actually is Thanks. So the by-law is three. Oh, can you go back to that one? Thank you, Margaret The by-law is actually three sort of parts. Um, the first part has two separate parts to it This by-law we modeled on north hamptons. So we didn't come up with most of this language ourselves We just copied it from north hampton but this part limits the amount that Individuals and PACs can contribute to a candidate or a candidate committee running So an individual would be limited to instead of the current state law limit of a thousand to 250 and it's shown as a 0.25 of the maximum aggregate So one quarter of the state limits so that it goes up by any time the state goes up So we don't have to revisit it every so many years or whatever And the second part is the PACs organized so local municipal PACs organized in amherst Would be limited to 0.25 of the maximum in the state Which actually ends up at at this point 125 dollars per calendar year So that's what this one would do and that's contributions to a candidate Or if they haven't formed a committee or if they have the candidate's committee So the second part Which will be B. So can you move on? Is contributions to municipal PACs And this part would limit that to again one quarter of the state maximum And that would also be and this is individuals giving to a municipal PAC And that would be 125 dollars a calendar year under the current law But again, it's tagged to the current law so that if the current law changes this one changes automatically And the third part part c is the enforcement section Because the state Has its own enforcement for state laws If we want any teeth to this we had to write in an enforcement And so this enforcement goes to the town clerk Inspecting the reports that the municipal candidates committees and PACs have filed And if there is a violation of either section one or two the clerk notifies the appropriate candidate Or committee and they have 15 days to essentially return the excess contribution or donate that to a local charity that is operating in amherst And then if they don't do that they would be subjected to a fine And this one says not exceeding 250 dollars. This is something that if it's referred to g ol the town attorney's opinion Said that it couldn't be a not exceeding. It has to be a Specific amount so that would be something that would need to get changed under the review for action ability But for purposes of now, this is what was proposed. So that's why we still have it here But that is a change that would we would be looking at But we've proposed a 250 dollar fine essentially we're up to 250 and so that could be something we could discuss any Any further from either ebb and or maybe Joe comments Dorothy I First of all If this is for the public I think it has to be worded in a way that the public could understand it with examples But I would agree to this if it said Goods and services as well as money because there you can make a contribution of goods and services worth way more than 125 dollars And it's not a level playing field if you don't include Goods and services donated by say a pack Evan So two things I agree the language might seem a little bit dense It is like I said like Randy Joe said mostly copied from Northampton And and we wanted to do that To make sure there's a spend in effect for a few years now And so we wanted to make sure that we had sort of that solid ground to stand on But that is the reason that I included and I would hope to include for the public that FAQ document that you had That showed what it actually looks like when compared against, you know, had the crossed out lines so that Point 25 of mgl is very confusing, but if you look at the chart Um, I I did before I brought this forward Speak to ocp office of campaign of political finance about whether this Included only monetary contributions or if in-kind contributions goods and services are included and they said that it this They said that these limits apply also to in-kind contributions. So it would be both monetary and in-kind further Alyssa I think it's I'm surprised that we're not mentioning that Northampton's limit is 500 not 250 why when we keep bringing Northampton up as an example, are we talking about Doing half as much as Northampton which has had 500 for several years because of course they did it right when the state moved to A thousand they said let's keep ours 500 that was their choice 250 is a lot less than 500 and I'm trying to understand what the justification is there given that hasn't been mentioned I don't know what Evan's thoughts were but my thoughts were to make it slightly smaller Northampton also has a mayoral election which Provides for a full-time job at full-time pay for the person who wins that election We don't have an election in a similar sense. So you could argue that a mayoral election might Require or need or make more sense to have a higher contribution limit than something that is essentially a volunteer position So that was my thoughts on making it 250 instead of 500 or one quarter instead of a half I almost want to say to you. I don't care what Northampton does Because you always tell it to me, but right right, so Northampton was just the uh, they're the only other municipality that has such a bylaw and so we just are using their text So we're not reinventing the wheel my feeling and I did read that my feeling was that 500 was still A fairly large sum of money for our community and so I looked for it to be lower but of course these numbers are Here is our proposal and we expect the council to give us our their feedback I also want to Point out that this is to be referred So questions. Yes, Alyssa So if I could just follow up again because I really hate when Northampton gets thrown in my face too despite my friendship with some other counselors I would argue that their 500 dollar limit hasn't done anything to improve access to who runs and who doesn't I think that it's quite clear that they don't have diverse candidates either traditionally And so it's not that we shouldn't consider it It's just that it's clearly not a magic bullet And the other part of that is that as I said during the campaign when I did indeed And I believe I might be almost cited in this report as being someone who did receive a thousand dollar contribution I want to explain what a rationale for that is you don't have to agree with it But a rationale for that is if a candidate say for a candidate who Does not have as much access as I did after many years of experience Has one Or two friends with deep pockets Then they can get a really good start with that amount of money rather than saying Well, it's fine. We can all just have small contributions That's actually not as accessible to somebody who's brand new as you might imagine it is because sometimes people have very uneven amounts of of friendships in terms of where they might be able to get money from and so Being able to kick start their campaign with 500 or a thousand dollars And then feed in as they meet more and more people Whereas somebody who already knows a ton of people isn't going to have any trouble getting tons of $250 donation So it's just a little I'm I'm a little cautious Steve Yeah, so my Thank you for all the work But Alyssa said a lot of what I was thinking is I wonder if we're solving a problem that doesn't necessarily need to be Be addressed because I have done a cursory look at campaign finance reports for us and for school committee And it's counterintuitive, you know, it's counterintuitive who's getting You know, what we might consider big donations. So Yeah, so I I think that unless I really hit it right on is that Sometimes the jump starting comes for people that need the help the most rather than the People that are the most connected Interesting. Okay. Other comments questions Shalini As a person who's new to politics and No one knew me. I felt it very uncomfortable asking for any amount of money and So it it I did I mean and I could I I don't know it was hard to Expect anyone to give large amounts. So for me 250 seems like a leveling playing leveling the playing field versus, you know, other people's capacity to get thousands of dollars So it does I don't know it's it's tricky the way I hear what some of the other people are saying Dorothy does this limit the amount that the candidate can give to his or her own campaign? It is not Well, then that's not a very level playing field. Is it? So there's a supreme court decision out there that says that candidates Have unlimited ability to give themselves unlimited money as a free speech issue. So we couldn't actually Limit the amount a candidate can spend on themselves for a campaign Interesting. Okay other questions Thoughts Okay, who do we think this should be referred to? For the I really don't want to make this an ad hoc committee gang It's a bylaw Let's go to go well Yes, maybe can I say the since it is a bylaw the clarity consistency action ability under the rules We just adopted automatically comes to go out. The question is where does the Substance the policy type review fall Um, it can come back to the council For the pros and cons though. I mean, that's what we have crc for for certain things Where should this one be that that's the question I have and that doesn't Under gel's charge fall under gel I I agree with lin. This is a matter for the whole council Meaning it would go to gel For consistency, etc And then it would come back to the council and if the 13 of us Can't ourselves voice the pros and cons then Who are we exactly we're all experts in raising money so When it goes to gel do ebb and andy joe have to stay out of it refuse themselves since they wrote it No No Any further conversation about that Anybody feel that we need to have an additional committee for this All right The motion then would be to refer the limitations of campaign contribution bylaw introduced by councillor hannigan ross on may 20th 2019 to the gel committee With a report back to the town council on june 3rd 2019 Is there a motion? so moved a second george comment Andy why does it need to be that quick? I think the idea is to put it into place before the fall election Mandy joe so as a bylaw It will need read at two meetings and this is not counting as that read because we Want the first reading to be after any changes might be made to it It needs read at two separate meetings and then after passage at if it passes at that second meeting It will not become effective for 14 days Evan and I would love to see this in place for the fall election period and papers Are available on july 1 for that So if a recommend well, there's no recommendation if it goes to gel because gel is just declaring clear consistency and actionability It will not come back with a recommendation so Our thing is to have that declaration done by june 3rd, I guess um but the If you bring it back for the first reading on june 3rd the second reading can be on the 17th and it will become effective on the 30 the on july 1 directly Which would allow it to be effective from the first day that papers can be pulled for the fall election Andy Let me just ask the president what she anticipates Happening with the budget discussion on june 3rd A lot of time It's it is the major agenda item. This would be probably The only other substantive one But I would look at that quite carefully Absolutely dorthy. Um, I don't think that this campaign finance rule is going to accomplish what we want to accomplish But I think that we could look into and I don't know the possibility of the Town providing more assets to candidates Right now, I believe candidates get a free copy of the voter list. Do they not? So that's one thing they get free Some towns have something which ours does not which is a list of email addresses of voters Which would be really great Because that's really like one of the big problems But I mean there may be other things that the town can do even maybe a workshop For candidates, how do you run for office? How do you fill out the papers? I mean because we do need a lot more outreach, but I don't think this is going to solve it Getting us more candidates from other places Okay, evan I just just want to clarify that I have no expectation that this singular bylaw will be a silver bullet I think that there are a number of things that we need to do as a council Over the coming years to try to make our local elections stronger With with more more people coming in But I do think that this is One piece of the equation and so there are certainly Many pieces that I would hope that this council will discuss over the coming years Dorsey, yeah, I would just say That if you're still in the process of amending this I would agree with what dorothy said about Goods and services and I know you said that this was included but um somehow or other There would need to be a way of attaching a value to something like A phone lists mailing lists and A lot of the different things that if you get them in your campaign they are A very powerful tool and they You know Make the make the playing field Uh level if everyone has them so, um I I see that as a bigger problem than The campaign contributions the amount of training that might be offered or website help or Mailing lists that type of thing if that could be made level That would be extremely helpful and if somehow or other this could Could assign a value to that type of thing That would be helpful perfect A listen except I don't think it can Office of campaign and political finance decides if a mailing list is worth money or not depending on where it comes from Office of campaign and political finance decides what websites are worth or not Many candidates don't have to pay for websites and don't have to count them as in kind contributions Because of the profession of the person who's providing them and those are all office of campaign and political finance decisions So while we can make a new dollar amount That dollar amounts can't suddenly redefine what mailing list means Or what a pack means you can say a pack only gets this much money But you can't redefine a pack to suit amherst and you can't redefine What an in kind contribution is to suit amherst those rules are still office of campaign and political finance rules So I don't you probably don't agree with some of those rules But I don't think we can fix those ourselves, but we can address the money. That's something we can address There's a motion on the floor and it's been seconded And that motion is to refer this to geowale and had them report back by june 3rd. Is there any further conversation? All those in favor? It's unanimous except for one absence I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't see Opposed opposed no abstain to So it was ten in favor To abstain one absent At this time i'm going to Not do the president's appointment the community resource committee. We have had a resignation from that committee at sarah schwarz And there are at least two if not more people interested So it remains an open seat I encourage people to attend the meetings and whenever they are going to be doing general Discussions like the one that they did on zoning and the one that they did on Planning please know that they will be posted as committees of the whole committee reports Bylaw review pat We've worked on the wetlands protection bylaws collecting and dealing and used articles We've worked on the violation of refuse collection and recyclable materials bylaw And the disposable of refuse rubbish etc on highways or any public land And we've talked about the bylaws Around parades and public meetings and we deferred our discussion on signs But you have asked for something to be on the agenda They're moving her off. Thank you a community resource committee steve so the Main action item that we had was the air bnb Recommendation that I reported on earlier other than that we've had two workshops That have both been open into the whole town council one on the master plan one on planning and zoning So we were supposed to meet on wednesday But I've got a message that our meeting wasn't posted. So that means we're not meeting on wednesday. Okay So if you're on the crc We won't be meeting this wednesday. So stay tuned for a reschedule Yep, and I believe you're not meeting the following wednesday because of the conflict with With the chamber event and also now the food event at the schools Okay I leave it to the chair and vice chair to poll But I ask a question about that Um, I was really looking forward to seeing the crc meeting on video and I'm wondering if that the the zoning That was a commitment of meeting the whole right So, uh, I don't think it's on amherst media And so I wondered if it's going to be on the youtube channel. It would be on the you know, it would be on The youtube channel It'd be on the town's youtube channel if it was recorded. So the question was what's the the committee recorded? Yeah, so the may 8th Meeting isn't up yet I'm Waiting expectantly to watch that one. That would be on the master plan May 8 was the master plan and then there was one on the Yeah, so those two are not are not up yet. So Um, I have them on my list The weather's nice. Okay All right, any questions? Yes, alissa. I'm sorry. Um in regards to bylaw review I just so that nobody's surprised if they are if you all which I certainly hope you all Subscribe to meeting notices and you often see the planning board agendas So on may 29th, correct me if I'm wrong Bob richie the chair of bylaw review is going to Point out to the planning board that remember how you looked at the zoning bylaw back in december with the previous bylaw review group Oh, we're going to need you to do that again because it's just updating just a couple really basic things in the zoning bylaw So that they can have a here. They're also going to have a hearing which the legal notice must have already gone out for for june 3rd Just so that they can then give the town council a report About those very basic changes. These are not extensive changes at all because then that way they can have a nice clean zoning bylaw To work from as they're doing all their zoning bylaw thing rather than trying to bring us a piecemeal Bylaw here and there that's based on the old zoning bylaw. Would you please provide that information to margaret? Who can then send it to the full council? Thank you um Council goals ad hoc committee. We are meeting this thursday However, we have not received that many things back from people. So this is not going to be our last meeting We do remind you That we do need your full your full set of activities, etc um, and any changes that you have in the actual goals finance committee Well finance committee is really and it's uh extremely busy season Which includes the hearing tomorrow, which I hope that Is as tired as we all are tonight that the council as a whole citizen since it is posted as a council meeting will Attend we don't know again the amount of public that will be there. We're it's a hearing. It's not a Forum so we're not limited by the time constraints But we are trying to organize it to do it as expeditiously In time as we can but to serve the purpose of Encouraging and allowing public to comment on the budget and its priorities I think i'll save the discussion of what the committee has been working on in the review process and do that in our Report that we're going to have to be submitting Very soon So I think that that's the major points and I guess the other thing is just to uh reflect back on the point that you made I don't think the finance committee is going to be able to get to Back to the goals question until it completes its work on the budget. I would agree with that Okay GOL Manager nothing except what's in the report. So read it if you haven't um oca sarah Alyssa Along we have an extra we have a schedule an extra meeting because meeting today wasn't enough on wednesday the 22nd Where we'll be talking about ranked choice voting participatory budgeting that information has already been posted you look for it on the actual meeting posting So that we can get it to the next council meeting And rules of procedure. I think we've done that one Um, I want to make a motion to approve the minutes of may 6th and may 8th the special meeting Um So the motion is to approve the may 6th town council meeting minutes And the may 8th town council special meeting minutes as presented Is there a second Second Further conversation discussion corrections additions all those in favor opposed abstain And one absent Mr. Balkaman your report Yes, um Two things I want to bring to your attention one is You have my report which you can read you sure you've all read and memorized um First thing I want to mention is how the community participation officers have been so active in the community I've tried to list some of the things that they've done They're insatiable in the times the types of things that they want to engage the public in so I really commend them for their work All three of them have been aggressive about trying to reach out and be creative and thinking about things and So I just commend them on that work. The second one is a focus on dpw earlier today. You saw our assistant superintendent Amy Rusecki with the Um Citation from the governor It's I think it's very impressive for a town our size has the president of the mass waterworks association Someone who's recognized throughout the state for her leadership on water issues And I think that really speaks highly to the quality of our staff Um, we and so she received that for drinking water week. We also received a top. We were one of the top 10 uh communities in the country for a complete streets Um policy, which is another that's a and that's from a neutral organization that support supports complete streets We are also being recognized for being tree city usa again and our commitment to trees And uh this week is public works week You will see through our social media that every day we're featuring a different division And talking a little bit about the types of work that our dpw does Um often unheralded often under appreciated often the source of criticism because Their jobs are on the streets every day in front of people who get to watch them work all day And I'm glad I'm in an office or in some place in an office where people aren't watching me all day So I commend them for all their work Um Big paving projects happening west east pleasant street as soon as the weather lets up that will be paved West bay road is pretty close to being finished. There's some touch-up things Main street We have honored the request of local businesses to not be interfering with their business their busiest months of the year Which are april and may So when when once we get beyond um memorial day, they'll be Down there as long as the weather holds Bridge opening the mill street bridge is open It's going to look funny to you if you haven't seen it And there's a reason for it and it's going to be cleaned up once we have the official turnover from the state And that will it looks like it's a two-way street for a certain section But it's just all these little things the state known ADA and stuff like that that the state had to do We're hoping for a ribbon cutting sort of a small Affair you will all be invited to it Probably we're shooting for next week so we can shake hands with the state and say thank you for this beautiful new bridge It is really it's big. It's beautiful. It looks great And we appreciate that they spent all the money to build it for us Um And on the station road bridge that bridge we're hoping will be delivered in the next week or two Then it will be a matter of putting it into place and building the road up So, you know, I previously I told you may 31st by the end of the month May not quite hit that that was my optimist. I should give me my pessimistic date, but I think we'll be pretty close to that If we go over it won't be very much farther than that So basically, um Want to thank our DPW for all the work there. There is a really busy time of year And so if I'm ready for any questions if you have any Questions Okay Hearing none. Thank you very much Town council comments. Let me just start with two I am in the process working with Previous work that both Alyssa and Andy have been part of and that is looking at a calendar For the evaluation of the town manager And then I actually have already asked oka if we can have that on their june 3rd agenda And I will also be posting on our june 3rd agenda for the council to show you the Calendar and also in general talk about the process, but briefly since we're also going to be doing the budget The reason that we need to look at this is because It's a rather complicated process involves counselor comments public comments staff comments And committee comments as well and then meshing it all together um It basically at this point mimicking The work that is done by the select the process that's been used by the select board in the past But in addition to that looking at the process that's been used by several other towns That have a council manager form of government And then I also still owe you a list of future agenda items. I just didn't get to it. Pat Sorry Are there future agenda items that I you would like to add to the ongoing list Melanie, I wanted to have a discussion and propose Increase the changing the charge for the CRC committee to increase the number of members to six because the scope of the committee is so vast that I think we would benefit from having A larger committee with six members Okay agenda Comment Anything briefly Lee you would like to mention to us about your statewide committee this hour The town manager actually covered it in his report basically social consumption I'm Really excited about being able to be at the table to have that discussion What's up with some of the commissioners and with other municipal officials so that we could talk about our actual lived experiences Associate with social consumption with alcohol and how that might apply to marijuana cannabis use However, it is a very long road ahead. And so even if The cannabis control commission votes at their next meeting which is at the end of the month to include it in regulations The regulations still have to be published then get comments on those hearings on those I plan to attend a hearing in springfield There's also one in boston and even if it makes it all the way through that process There's still a legislative fix that has to happen Then communities have to decide whether or not they'd be interested in pursuing that legislative fix to actually opt in So this isn't going to happen next week not even for christmas But it's something that amherst has been in the forefront of since back when medical first came along We were very up in front with our zoning bylaws And so we're just trying to keep our hand in to make sure that anything that might affect amherst Actually has some input from amherst and I'd be happy to talk to any of you individually Thank you. Any other cancer comments? I I have a question about that. I quickly read the report and saw that There seems to be no clear way yet for police to determine Amount of driver impairment from cannabis use and there were some members of the committee that were Not voting for the Social consumption lounges until that is done. Do you know where the science is on that at this time? At this time there is nothing that measures impairment It only measures consumption It only measures that you have actually used marijuana at some point It doesn't say how impaired you are by that as opposed to alcohol where there have been numerous studies done That say if you blow x amount that means that you are technically impaired But bearing in mind that of course people are driving impaired with marijuana use right now even as we speak And they the police can pull people over for impaired driving right now for having too much Nyquil to meant not enough sleep, you know for various other reasons But it's absolutely true that there is not a measurement available. That's like alcohol Are there any other counselor comments? Yes, Evan I just wanted to briefly say Since our last meeting Steve and I held our first district meeting And so I just wanted to thank the community participation officers who were really essential in putting that together And especially angel mills who attended and made sure we had all the technical support and all the supplies It was really a great help and I appreciate the work that they did And let me make note that with district four having their district meeting every one of us has had at least one district meeting We've accomplished one of the two we're required to have Okay There you go any further comments Darcy I just wanted to say uh to remind people if they don't have don't know already that the First meeting of the ECAC is This Wednesday, so we're very excited about that first meeting and Feel like coming around it's going to be right here. What time? 6 30 6 30. Thank you Any further comments questions from counselors? Okay, Kathy. I guess I'll um it Particularly affects north Amherst, but it affects anyone who drives up in our area TAC is having a meeting to review potential ways of changing the intersection This this week. Yes. Um, and there's an engineering report. So it'll be discussion on that So it's it's not just a district one. It's also a district two issue When is that? Um It's wednesday at five o'clock and it's in the police community room This week. Yeah Okay, thank you and these committees don't always fly on people's radar screens. So right and I Reason I ask is because I've already been receiving comments As we all have regarding the intersection in north Amherst I also personally go through it all the time um anything else Do I hear a motion to adjourn? I I move that we adjourn dorthy moves. Yes and second Shallony all those in favor Let those records show that we are adjourning at 10 50