 It is, as Johnny was saying, huge honor to have Sugar Ray Leonard on the show here with us today. And I know growing up that boxers were revered, and still are revered as some of the biggest warriors in the modern world. And I know it's something that Johnny and I are definitely intimidated by. We've started to push ourselves a little bit physically. But the level of toughness, both physically and mentally, you need to get in the ring to face someone else, to face your biggest fears, getting hit by someone else, oftentimes bigger than you, and even more angry than you. The first question that I have is, in that moment when you're locked in, do you see the weakness in someone else? And are you able then to take yourself to another level? Or is it really just fighting against all of your instincts to stay in that moment? It's that's a very good question. And it's all based upon the level of competition. Naturally, when I was fighting my 15th fight, my 20th fight, and then when you move up to the Marvin Haggles of the world, the Tommy Irons of the world, Roberto de Reina of the world, that's when it's, you have to raise the bar. You have to be as optimistic, but sincere. You have to be sincere with yourself to achieve greatness. Well, to go in on that a bit. So there's all these other fights before that where at least you had wanted to be in the best shape of your life. And then to go, okay, well, if this is the next fight, how, how do I take it up a notch from what I've already felt was peak physical and mental condition? You go beyond the limits. You go beyond what is expected of you instead of doing 100 sit-ups, you do 200 sit-ups. Not necessarily did I do that. Yeah. I didn't. Well, yes, I did. I don't know. I'm sure you did so. I'm sure I've done that. It's been a long time though. But I pushed myself and, you know, I'm glad you asked that question because that's how I became who I am because I always did a little bit more than the other guys. I instead of running three miles, I run five miles. Instead of training, when there's three minute rounds and one minute rest, I will do five minute rounds and 30 seconds rest. I was flying new sparring partners from all over the country and we were sparring nine rounds, 12 rounds, 15 rounds. And, and, and each every four rounds or five rounds, I'll get a new fresh guy. So I got to, I'm tired, but now I have to deal with this guy who's fresh. And I've learned to do that. And so I was always ready for that, that round or that moment in that ring where, you know, majority of guys, 95% of the guys would just poop out. You know, you made mention of bringing in sparring partners. And I was just thinking about this. Obviously, there is an amount of respect that they have to come in and to spar with you, but there's also a bit of their own ego like, I want to get a couple shots on this guy. How do you, yes, you're right. I was gonna say, how did you, were you in my training camp? I'd be hearing about it if he was. But that's true. That is so true. In fact, check this out. It was five days before my fight against Marvin Haggler. One of my sparring partners hit me and nearly knocked me out. I mean, nearly knocked me out. I mean, five days before the fight. And I remember vividly getting into my, in the car to go back to the hotel. No one said a word. The car, the van was quiet, but it was like definitely quiet. And they all, and I knew, I knew what they were thinking. They were saying, right, get hit by a sparring partner and almost knocked them out. So what would Marvin Haggler do to him? Oh, yeah, there's a lot of questions. Oh, yeah. So I had to prove him wrong. And that only motivated me to a degree. Whereas that I was shot. So your brother, Roger, goaded you into boxing. And we were talking about this very briefly earlier. You say you found boxing and boxing found you. Is there a distinct memory in your mind of that moment when you felt hooked on this sport that scares the crap out of me and Johnny? When I broke my brother's nose. My brother, Roger was a, you know, he could have been a champion, but he, he just, his discipline wasn't as strong as mine. And he, you know, he would train hard, then he'll go that night. He'll hang out, do his thing. But me, I, I just wanted to be on time, sharp, everything. And I would train. I would not eat great food. I ate what was available, but I was just more dedicated. I was more dedicated than most guys. And you've encountered a lot of champions in your career. Is there something in your mind? You talk about discipline. Is that it? Are there other factors that separate the champions from the amateurs? The, the discipline is a major, a major point. You have to, you have to believe in yourself and be honest, be honest with yourself. You have to use what you have. In other words, when I would fight all the fights that I've had, I choreographed the fights in my head. I could find out what your strong points were because I would watch films of you, tapes of you, and, and find out your weakness and your strength. And I would concentrate on those things. And I would try to find out, and I did those things later on, you know, with my, my spies that I sent to training camps, and to find out what was, you know, what happened, what, what bothered you the most. And with Haggar in particular, I found out that he would get upset when he faced guys who could box, guys who had mobility, guys who moved around the ring, guys who utilized the ring, and that would bother Haggar. So I, I did those things. So it sounds like champions are also adaptable in that sense, right? Oh, yes. Throughout your career, getting ready for these different fighters, you're adapting your fighting style to gain that edge. You, well, you know, the, and the key is being versatile, having the ability to change up. You can't just have a plan, plan A, you need a plan B, plan C, plan D, you got to be able to change up and be multiple. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know that whether it's sports or business or life, that's an important part. Growing personal development is about being adaptable to a changing environment. The world is changing just like the, the fighters you're facing are changing. That is so true. And you know, I look at life itself as being a fight. We are fighters even outside the ring. We get knocked down. Like I said, we get knocked down and you need, you need to do your role, your version of role work. You gotta do all those things. And like, I always tell my kids, I say, you know, life is a fight and you have not been in a fight yet. And they look at me like I'm crazy, but they will, they will get a taste of it eventually. We all, because we all have fights, right? Everyone's had a fight. Everyone's got knocked down at some point in their lives. It depends on who gets up, who gets up from those knock downs. You know, my dad has saying, and it's something that AJ and I've said for many years now, which is, I guess it goes to speak to the sort of coddling that goes on with the younger generation, but sort of that idea where everyone should get a punch square in the face at some point and to see how you handle it and take it and be able to continue rolling. And without that, it's like, how, how, how do you know what you're made of? That is so true. You know, as, and I'm not being facetious. That is true, you know, to get a taste of getting knocked down or getting hit, not physically, but just getting hit. And how do you react to that? How do you, how do you respond to a setback or get up from a knockdown when a fight? You know, I mean, we all going to, we, we all going to experience that, right? Some sooner than others. Well, we had Alex Bonionon recently and he told us a story in interviewing you as a kid that in order to gain speed, you chase the school bus. So are there any other unusual training techniques that you used early on in your career to build that physical toughness that gets you in the ring that allows you to outlast your opponent? You know, that question, how can I answer this? You just, it's, it's intuitive. It's natural. It's like, you got to want it. I mean, how bad do you want it? Is this thing that you can't, you can't really touch it? You can, but you can feel it. It's, I'm pointing to my head right now. It's, it's what's up here. It's what's here in your heart. And, you know, and what's in your fist and what's in your fist? You know, it's my fist being balled up. But it's, it's all about the fight. Stay in the fight. Don't give up. You know, people will tell you what you can't do because they can't do it. And I always give that advice and I always dream the dream. You know, we all have dreams and there are no shortcuts to these dreams. And you work as much as you can, as hard as you can, and you will see results. And your next fight is Diabetes, wonderful foundation you started. How did you choose this as your next opponent? You know, I've been asked that a number of times because my father was diabetic. I mean, my father passed away about about a month or so ago, 95 years old, but he had type two diabetes. My friends, their kids had diabetes. One of my best friends called me one day, he said, Ray, I'll just diagnose with type one diabetes. And this guy, I mean, what's the, I mean, the image of success. I mean, train hard every day, look like a million bucks. But diabetes today now, because these are called juvenile diabetes. And now it's called type one type two, because you can get diabetes at any age now. It's, and it's scary. It's, it's a fight that I've decided to take on a fighter, I should say. And so through awareness and research, one day I want to see eradicate this disease, this disease. And I want to be a part of that. Yeah, it's a very tough disease even when managed. Even when managed. And it strikes everyone at every age. It's the complications and it's just a horrible disease. And I, and this is like I say, this has been, this is the toughest fight of my, my career. Well, considering how your career went, I'm sure you are worth the opponent for diabetes and raising awareness around it. Because I know that it's something that when you see children are suffering with it, when you see healthy adults end up with it and the complications that go along with it, it can be very tough on your loved ones and on your family. It really can be. And that's why I'm such a fighter for this cause. And I have incredible friends who come out to support me, be rallying company, my partner. We also teamed up with Children's Hospital Los Angeles to raise that awareness and help raise funds for research. This is something so special to me because it's about being in the position to give back, to make, to acknowledge something that is so deadly. And, you know, it's like my, this is like my child, diabetes. And when it comes to taking on a fight of this magnitude, obviously training for your physical fights, there's a moment of pushing yourself beyond that physical limit. Now you're taking on a much bigger fight. So getting people in your corner to help support you on this is an important mission that you're on. Without question, without question. And we talk about, and I'm thankful for bringing it out, but we talk about this all the time because this is something very dear to me. And, you know, it's, it's, it's being responsible. It's showing that what's important to me. You know, I look back when I first began this journey and it is, it has been a journey. That when I first talked about it, I got very emotional. But in the past nine years, we've raised close to three million dollars. So again, I am a fighter outside the ring. Right. Without question. And growing up as a socially anxious kid, I'm sure fame was difficult and tricky to deal with at times. Now you have an opportunity to use that fame for an amazing cause, but talk about that at the start of your career. You start racking up some wins. The spotlight is on you. How do you handle that moment? Well, I mean, and you, you, you learn about your mistakes, but when I, after the, after the Olympics in 1976, I turned pro with 77. And that's when my journey began. And all of a sudden now I'm being known globally. And the fame and the, and the fortune that comes with that, if you don't maintain perspective, if you're not grounded, if your feet are not firmly stuck on the ground, get you in trouble. And what happened with me when I retired the first time, I retired a lot of times. The first time I was like 25. And I retired because I had a partial detached retina. And people were very concerned about me coming back to the ring because, you know, they felt that I could do some serious damage. But I was so unprepared, I should say, the success that I had. And in a short period of time, two years, that I went to alcohol and drugs. And it was a whirlwind. And, you know, I had good people. I had good, I had good people around me that looked out for me in my best interest. And I was able to pull myself out of that situation. And instead of hurting myself, I want to hurt diabetes. I want to take away diabetes. I want to knock out diabetes. And so that's been a blessing in disguise for me. Right. And to physically prepare for this fight. And at your age, as great as you look, what are you doing physically nowadays to stay in shape and to keep it moving and to go on for this fight? It's stress. Hey, coffee, right? Hey, guys, coffee. No, you know, I work out. I do work out. My training trend has been really full for some time now. But I've always, even, I mean, years ago, I'm 62 years old now. And, I mean, back in my 20s, man, I always worked out a little bit. Even when I wasn't fighting, I always worked out. I took pride in working out. And I feel good. It's because when I get up in the morning to run whether it's two, three miles, whatever the case may be and work out, my day starts off, I'm productive already. Yeah, right. I'm productive. And there's no greater feeling for me than to work out and just, you know, get all that stuff out of y'all that toxin out of these systems. And I'm not just talking about food or whatever, but just get all those bad thoughts. Because when I work out, man, my brain's clear. My body is clear and clean. And that's, that's awesome. Well, certainly a thing for to build habits. One's, well, good habits that, you know, if I know for myself at this point, if I don't work out for a few days, I know what the issue is. I know why I'm feeling off. And it's only a matter of time before we get back at it. AJ and I had just done some work in Chicago. And the first thing we were excited about is get back to routine, get back in the gym. And because it's, it lets your body know and your mind know we're back to normal. It's back to game time and it's back to keeping it together. Have you guys ever tried boxing? So I took a workout class that involved boxing. I don't want to say I tried boxing because I was hitting an inanimate object. I was not actually getting punched, which is a much different feeling, but it is physically exhausting. I will tell you, the gloves are a lot heavier than you think. And throwing punches in a rapid succession, you're using your whole body and talk about cardio. I was absolutely winded. My girlfriend aimed me, dragged me to a class and it was full of all these beautiful women in LA and I'm getting taped up and all excited to do a little, you know, shake and shimmy. And then we get into it and halfway through I was wheezing bent over completely winded. So I couldn't even imagine what it's like then having to deal with the onslaught of someone else looking to knock you out. Oh yeah, but that's, there's boxing is one of the most, if not the most incredible workouts there is because it's the body, it's the mind, it's all those things. And when I work out, I hit the bags every now and then no one hits me back. Thank God. But it's the best feeling. It's a wonderful, it's a wonderful feeling. I'm trying to articulate it, but I just can't, one day I'm going to have you guys come to the house and now I'm serious. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to show you some stuff. Okay. We would love so much. I won't hit you. Can we hit each other? We got some things to get out of our chest. You're the sign of release on it. Okay. No problems there. I think honestly the most fascinating thing about all of this is the competitive drive to go back in the ring, retire, go back in the ring, get knocked down and get back up. And that mental toughness, that fortitude is something that I think we all struggle with. You know, life does knock you down. And to be honest, retirement sounds pretty nice, right after the training that goes on, the matches you prepare for. So what was that factor that motivated you to get back in the ring so many times? Because I wanted to win. I saw, I wanted, I wanted that victory. I mean, I've had victories, but I wanted that victory. And that means Marvin Hagler, that means Tommy. Is it easy? Absolutely. No way. No way. But it's also a mindset, you know, to be optimistic. But also not take shortcuts. I truly, I mean, I was trying to regain what I had. In other words, the fame and the, the, the acknowledgement of it, beating Hagler, beating Tommy Hearns, beating Roberto Duran, there's nothing like it, guys. There's nothing like that. And once I accepted the fact, I surrendered, said, you know what, I'm going to do something else. And it may not be that same, you know, hoopla, but when I do something outside the ring, it's, it's so, man, it's just so comforting. You know what I mean? It's just so amazing. I was, I was curious, you had mentioned the chemical dependency that was going on after retiring. Was that going on, on some of those comebacks as well, that those things had to go away? And, and if so, what was the mental process of realizing how far you had strayed from that, that conditioning, when that had taken its toll? You know, I mean, my first return to the ring, my first return of many to the ring, I, I'm watching a boxing match and I said, I can beat him. And, you know, and then after a couple of drinks, and I knew, I remember when I saw Marvin Hagler fights this guy, Johnny Beast Macgabi. And it was like Hagler wasn't sharp. I said, so I called my partner, my business partner, I said, Mike, I said, Mike, I can beat Hagler. He said, Ray, have you been drinking? Yes, but that's not the point. And I said, he said, just wait, he said, get home, get home. We'll talk about it. But everyone thought I was crazy when I, when I challenged Marvin Hagler, because Marvin Hagler was just a beast, man. He was the best. But I wanted that. I wanted it. And I trained hard, I trained for over a year, a year. I mean, just wow, to get a body back in shape, to get that mind back in shape. Because again, it's not all, it's not all physical. It's cerebral, you know what I mean? And guys, I'm so, I swear to God, I'm, I keep, I always tell people this, I am so different than I was in the ring. I mean, I'm laid back, I'm not confrontational, and, you know, I don't try to punch your nose or anything. But it's been, it's been an incredible career. It's been an incredible moment in my life. And awesome, man. And obviously with boxing, there's a lot of showmanship that goes on outside of the ring, right? Boxing, Craves, personality. Right. Being somebody who had social anxiety, do you feel like that alter ego that you had in the ring will also carried over into those pre-fight to-dos with the media there and everyone looking for what's your next move? How are you going to get Hagler? Oh, yeah. I mean, again, it's hard to totally describe that feeling. And it's so, God, I should say, it's so contagious. It's so, it draws you, it draws you back, it draws you back, it draws you back. And for me, thank God, it wasn't the money, the finances or whatever, but it was just that feeling of being in that ring against that God and having your hands raised. Crazy, man, crazy. It's like you guys doing that marathon, right? The whole marathon, right? Maybe he'll convince us to do a whole after, but I don't know. Same thing. It's the same mindset. Well, it's funny that you should mention that, because when we were talking to our trainer about taking on this challenge, the farthest I had run at that time was 10 miles. And I did it very laid back. It was a shit time. It was like 11 minutes, 30 seconds was my average on miles. But I was just thinking, yeah, but I was fine. I could have kept going. And my trainer, he was like, that's a shit time. So we're going to get that going after it. And as we started getting into the these weeks of training, it went from the idea of, oh, I'm just going to do this thing to now it is, it is on. Like I just, I just want, I'm fired up for this event. And I want to give it my all. And for me, I just feel so, I just fired up. There's no word to explain it. And so you do a mile and how long right now I'm down to just below a 30. Yeah. As for the nine that I did recently. Yeah. Wow. So I'm fired up. But for me, it's, I want to come into that under that, well, within that top 10 for my age group. That's 10%. So I'm going to I'm planning on retiring after this. I don't think there'll be a comeback. Is that it? I'm looking for the taste of victory at the end, cross the finish line, bloat a little bit if I beat Johnny and call it a day. We figured it would be the best beer we've ever had after that murder. I would assume some of the best parting of your life came after those gloves. Absolutely. That feeling carried well outside the ring. Okay. Next question. Been there, done that. So we'll make sure we talk about that off there. Along with that mental toughness, obviously, you know, when you're a young pup, getting started in boxing, did you have a mentor or two? You've had a lot of people in your corner over the years that you could really point to that help instill that mental toughness, that edge. The mental toughness comes from the individual. The knowledge of it, comes from the mentor, Janks Morton, who suggested I turn pro to raise, to make money, to pay my father's hospital bills, Peppy Carrera, Dave Jacobs, I mean, Angelo Dundee. I had such good people, Mike Traynor. I had such incredible people, Ollie Dunlap. I mean, I can go on and on and on. My man, Juice, I'm going to stop now because there's a lot of people that I owe so much to because they were a part of my corner, my team. And my sponsors, I mean, there were people who loaned me money to get started. So I'm a blessed man and I don't take it for granted. I would love to hear some more thoughts on that, because we talk about this in class and on the show all the time about how important is the peer group that you have around you through life. And I can imagine in those times of training, I'm sure that it was very thought out of who's going to be in that room? Who's going to be around you? Who's going to be talking to you? Because you can, we always say you can only, you can only rise as high as you're five closest friends. And that's not in the monetary terms. That is a quality of life. You know, again, I had the best corner in the world. I just had people who cared about me, respected me, and they had the knowledge that they did because Mike Traynor, who was my dear friend, my attorney, my partner and everything, he said, Ray, if you turn pro, I can have you go with Don King. I can have you go with a Poland and these are promoters, boxer promoters. And we said, oh, you can do it yourself. He said, because, you know, but do you believe that you can become a world champion? Do you believe in yourself? And I said, yes, without even thinking about it. I say, yes. And I was really one of the first or few guys who orchestrated his own career. Wow. But it was all on me though. I had to produce. I had to be productive. There had to be a process. And I missed that. I missed those moments because my success came because I wanted success and I wanted victory and not just in the ring, but outside the ring too. Nothing. I mean, it's almost deteriorated when I talk about this, but it's been it's been an amazing journey. And with your children and raising them, what are some of the boxing lessons that you've tried to instill them? There are no shortcuts in life. There's no shortcut to success. If you don't believe in yourself, no one else will, you know, dream the dream because, you know, a lot of times people let go of their dreams. If you truly believe, if you really, if there's a, if you have a passion for something, go for it, you know, go for it and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I think there's a lot of influence, certainly with all the websites and everything that's going on with technology that everyone seems to be offering a shortcut. When I think deep down we all know there really isn't. It's nothing, but if you want it, you're going to have to work for it. You have to work for it. But then again, again, there's technology and everything else. There seems to be, or there appears to be, shortcuts. But when it's all said and done, you want as much experience as you can possibly get. And my dad would always say, well, you could learn it the easy way or the hard way. It gets coming. But you're going to learn. The easy way or the long hard way. Yeah. And with that, I think that's what's so amazing to hear. Obviously, not a professional athlete, not a champion anyway. But I face self-doubt and even champions face self-doubt. But it's going beyond that, whether it's the mental governor we have or the physical governor we have. And sometimes it takes a coach or a mentor to push us to that level. Sometimes it takes an opponent. Staring down Tommy Hearn, some of the toughest boxers in the history of boxing, well, he can get a little extra out of you. That's so true. And again, I will constantly repeat this. There are no shortcuts. And even if you took a shortcut, it's going to catch up with you eventually because you didn't go through that experience. You didn't go through that process. So you don't know what to expect because you took the shortcut. And obviously, boxing is a career where there are going to be setbacks. It's very difficult to go undefeated throughout your amateur and pro career. In those moments of defeat where you're picking yourself up the ground, was there something you were telling yourself the next fight, the next training session that would get you motivated? And it became, I was self-motivated. I wanted to win. I wanted to be successful. And it's deep down inside me. And the way I think, the way I think, I'm such an optimist by nature. And I know there's always a way to win. There's always a way to win. Nine times out of 10, we fail sometimes, but there is a way to win. It just can't give up. Right. Finding that way to win is where the magic is. Finding the way to win. And it is magic. I love it. I'm glad you said that. I'm going to use that too. Excellent. And our audience would love to help fight diabetes with you and with this cause. Where can they go to learn more about the foundation and get involved? At Sugar Ray Leonard.com. Sugar Ray Leonard.com. Yes. Learn about the foundation and we're going to watch you knock out diabetes. Absolutely. Maybe first round too. That's what we're hoping for. Thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Thanks guys. You guys are fantastic. Yeah. I know you got a busy schedule. It was great squeezing us in. Thank you. We're excited for our audience to hear this and push through their moments of defeat and frustration and those self-drafts and then we all have... Don't give up.