 Let's begin, and let's begin with introducing ourselves. So I'm Annette, and I'm helping out with operations and even organizing of Ethereum magicians. And I'm a part of operations ring of Ethereum magicians. And I'm how I join it, Ethereum magicians. It was actually a very interesting story that we started with Jamie when I had a call with him back in the beginning of the summer, I guess. Yeah, and then Jamie kind of said me, and he was like, OK, and I will join the Ethereum magicians because we are cool, and you are cool as well. Hey, there you go. Speak louder. OK, I'm so sorry. Yeah, so basically, I just joined the Ethereum magicians at the beginning of the summer. And this is Jamie, and he will introduce itself. I'm going to introduce myself. And yeah, I work in DevOps at the Ethereum Foundation and also volunteer for the Ethereum magicians. And we started the magicians. It was about a year and a half ago, and it's been a great experience. But essentially, it was started to improve the process of developing the technology together. And so often in our meetings, we'll create a circle and we'll have discussions. And so essentially, I started the magicians with Greg Colvin so that we could all have a better conversation as a community. Is it story time? Am I supposed to tell a story? OK. So yeah, we started with a proposal. We proposed to the community to form the Ethereum magicians. And then we started having gatherings, and we also created a forum. And ultimately, it's to improve the technology by enhancing the communication among groups in the community. Because there's many groups in this community. We want them to come together and work things out. And so later, we'll go over the schedule and you can see how that's put to action. Yeah, but basically, Ethereum magicians is a forum where you can contribute to an open source and you can discuss about AIPs and write AIPs. And you can meet the community over there. And we are basically a community of individuals who are working on different parts of Ethereum. Ethereum magicians can be anybody who is basically who wants to improve Ethereum and who wants to join an open source ecosystem and who wants to work in a working group that we call rings. And who is actually on a forum? On a forum is anybody. They're Ethereum Foundation researchers. They're all kinds of smart people or researchers. Oh, my gosh, I said it twice. They're core developers, builders, educators, and you can be a part of Ethereum magicians as well. And they're actually all core devs who are using Ethereum magicians forum as a tool where they can meet the community and discuss about AIPs and decide if the AIP is going to win through the process or not. Go ahead. Yeah, let me just explain you what AIPs are because I think that a lot of you guys are new to Ethereum, so AIPs are basically... I don't know what an AIP is, dude. Okay. So I don't have the audience, so what's an AIP? AIP is basically Ethereum improvement proposal that anybody from the community will write AIP and like a protocol. Yeah, it's just a technical thing that, yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. Oh, it's okay. Okay, so an AIP is essentially a specification and often they're very complicated technical documents, but you can also submit AIPs for a governance change or any change. And so there's different categories of AIPs and it's totally open. So you can propose any change you want and people do. People propose very strange changes to the protocol. They propose strange ERCs. That's absolutely welcome. And if you want to change the process, if you don't like how the process works, you can submit an AIP that is for that too. So yeah. Yeah, but Ethereum magicians, please go discuss there and prove your ideas because talking is great, but proving that your ideas work is way better. And that's what everyone in Ethereum ecosystem loves when you are not just talking at shitposting on Twitter, but it's better when you are coding and creating the diagrams and prototyping. Oh wait. Yeah, so Ethereum magicians is not only an online community, but we believe that in-person meetings have way bigger value for us, for the community and way bigger impact on the ecosystem. So we are organizing magicians gatherings. We call those magicians gatherings councils. And that's basically where the community will meet. It's usually like twice or three times a year. Usually during some blockchain weeks are some bigger Ethereum conferences. And that's where we are discussing about the main problems in Ethereum. And then ring leaders are organizing ring meetings or working groups on behalf of those. So yeah, to explain the larger gatherings is when we really pull the community and find out what everyone wants to talk about. And that's what I guess we'll do a little bit of that right now in a moment. But rings, which are basically working groups, will focus on a certain topic. So if there's anything that you're particularly interested in, and I think everyone is, everyone has something they're going for here. Everyone's working on something. There's probably others who want to work on that too. And so the magicians is very open about helping you organize around that. And so we call those rings to fit in with the theme of magicians, but they're essentially working groups. And at the end of today, if you would like to come back here, you can have a meeting with your group and perhaps announce it on Twitter and whatnot and try to actually get some work done. But we try to do these meetings three, the big gatherings three times a year. And usually we're writing on the coattails of some major event. And that's today, we got a pretty good room today. At DevCon, so I thought, you know, I thought it was really nice of them to give us the space and give us the ability to work things out as a community. So let's see what we got. Okay, yeah, so this is the schedule. You want to go over the schedule? So actually we are on time. Yeah, I don't know why we got scheduled this at nine. But whatever, yeah, definitely come to this room later on. And we are going to have very interesting discussion with EEA, which is Ethereum Enterprise Alliance, where we are going to discuss about how Ethereum Enterprise Alliance wants to join Ethereum community and how they want to connect with the Ethereum community. And I think that a lot of spicy question we got already at them. So it's gonna be a very cool discussion. And then definitely don't miss out the Ethereum roadmap sessions because that's basically the most important in Ethereum ecosystem and that's probably the most important highlight of this conference, I think. And if you are individual and if you want to get some work done, or if you want to contribute to Ethereum ecosystem, definitely come to a working group. Or if you have questions about Ethereum and you want to discuss with us, with magicians, then come to Open Mic or Open Community Discussion. And that's it, I guess. Yeah, so that 11, it's 11.30, I want to confirm that. Yeah, 11.30 is the Open Community Discussion. And so anything you guys want to talk about will try to facilitate a discussion in the circle here. So I would really encourage that. I think a lot of people you see it on Twitter, people have burning questions and they tweet at each other and maybe it's not the best way to communicate. Sometimes when you're face to face, you can actually work things out together and come to a resolution. So we really encourage you to do that. And so I think what we can do now is see if there's any questions that people have in their mind if they want to work on something today. And it's really hard because this is the very beginning and so people might not want to come forward and speak out. But I guess we'd like to ask, is there anything that you think the community needs to work on? Is there anything you feel like is unresolved in the community or about the technology? Wow, this is great, okay. I'm not surprised at all. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, give them the mic. Yeah, hey, I'm Dominic. I'm active in one of the theorem rings for constrained devices and I think I just wanted to talk about that because that's like my burning topic. And the question was about the technical topics we want to improve in the community. Any topic? So I think just having like the Web3 go into all the devices in the world and reaching small devices is like extremely important for that and I find that the community is not driving towards, it's very focused on like desktop computers and minors in that but not actually reaching out to getting everywhere where I think the original vision of Web3 was. So I'm super excited about that, that part and driving that forward. So if anybody wants to discuss that later and maybe there's more of the ring group members here, I haven't, I think I've seen Ligi before here, but if there's members here, I would be happy to talk to you and how we can improve that with some EIPs. Yeah, I just think instead of communities polarizing, they need to find ways to work together to build human consensus. So I think that's important. I think that we will definitely discuss about it. One issue I think is really important is, I feel like there's a lack of strategy. This is a big thing for me, I feel like all the teams are just independently working on their ideas, but there's no articulation of strategy and I think this applies to a lot of the core groups. And I think the community is really into decentralization and doesn't want leadership as much perhaps, but I think people need leadership and I feel like competitors to Ethereum have an advantage because they may have someone who can articulate their vision. And we hear the vision about the technology, but I feel like it's lacking in strategy. So that's my two cents. Anybody else? So I think just funding Collins and a bunch of you guys from different places. And I think just funding open protocol design. I mean, we've seen it with Parity, we're trying to do things with Gitcoin, but a lot of the projects that get funded are by VCs and everything else and I know them, I represent a bunch of them. And it's kind of an issue because a lot of that goes to people that aren't necessarily into the ethos of the community. So I would like to just figure out more ways to get funding back in the hands of devs that are actually doing open protocol design since I think that's what got us here in the first place. Yeah, definitely the, we have a ring for funding and that's often the ring that a lot of people get involved with. Funding is such a huge issue and I think certain projects are overfunded, as we all know, because of these fundraising events and other projects are just terribly underfunded. And I think that that could really slow down the development of Ethereum as a great technology. Anybody else, what have you tweeted about recently that's gotten you like tweet stormed or added a lot? Okay, well, I guess to give you an overview of how we run discussions, we're gonna try to create a circle here later. Throughout the day, we're gonna try to arrange people in a circle and often in these discussions, you'll have somebody who might show up who's very technically proficient and we wanna make sure that they can be closer and participate in discussion. But one ethos of the magicians is open process. And so basically we wanna make sure that like say, there's the core devs calls. We wanna make sure that people can come into those calls and participate in that. And I think in general, the core devs have followed really good approach for like how to govern a technology without a single entity in charge of the technology. And so in a way, I consider the core devs like a prototype magicians group because they were doing that without really being told or having any kind of like model or anything. It just kind of emerged that way. Is there a lot of misunderstanding about how the core devs function? Or is it, do you feel like in general, the core devs are doing well with how they function? I think that it's actually a good question on cat holders and there is actually Tim. I think how do you feel about how the core devs are managed and how does that, could you introduce a little bit about the core devs from what you know? So disclaimer, I'm not a core developer, not a developer period, but I do attend a lot of the calls because I'm a product manager and I kind of have to. I mean, how did the core devs work? I think it's a hard question. Yeah, and you should know. Yeah. So I think obviously it's doing well. Ethereum still works. We've had a lot of upgrades and they've generally worked. So like from a very base level, like the protocol works and the core developers kind of write the code to ensure that. There's obviously a whole lot of challenges and that's kind of what we're here to discuss from trying to gather just like sentiment throughout the community because the core developers kind of see one aspect of the protocol, which is really kind of the actual Ethereum protocol themselves, but they're not as close to stuff at the application level or at the mining level. So it's always like this challenge of like, how do you gather feedback from these groups who are typically not the people writing the upgrades, but who are affected by them? And I mean. Yeah, is there a process for that? Like how do they receive feedback from different, these different groups? Because I know that you can reserve on the calls to be a part of the call. Yeah, so there's no official process and contrary to what people say. I think that's a good thing because if you have like an official process, it tends to get captured, right? Like people will like kind of hack it. And so what typically happens is on the app developer side, if they have an EIP, they feel strongly for events, they'll come on the calls and they'll kind of make a case for that and that's very impactful. So I think if you're like an app developer or just working on some part of Ethereum and you want to figure out what's like the highest impact way to get in touch with core developers and have like your point of view be heard, just coming on the call or commenting on the agenda of the call if you can't come, those things tend to have like a disproportionate impact. Just an example recently, there was EIP at 2200 which changes some gas costs. That's really useful for Uniswap and Hayden who's the founder of Uniswap came on the calls I think or the Verdi's commented on the agenda that this is something that's really valuable and they're kind of counting on that. And there's no like direct voting or anything but just that signal from like an important project saying this matters to us, that's super valuable. Obviously- How did that happen? I don't know- Did they come into a call or how was that kind of thing communicated to the group? So you'd have to ask Hayden because yeah, I don't know what was the process of like for them to come and comment there. From the Cordefs call, I'm not sure if they just commented on the agenda or on the call with something like that. But basically if you want to like make change or if you want to interrupt this process, just be active on the internet or visit the all Cordefs GitHub I guess or comment there or comment on the GitHub issue at the repo I guess. How did they get on the agenda? So the agenda is public. There's the Ethereum repo on GitHub which is like GitHub slash Ethereum I think. And then there's a repo called PM there for project management and all the agendas and recordings and transcripts for the call are available there and anyone is free to add a comment on the agenda. So if you want to talk about something, you just post a comment there. I think Hudson manages most of the agendas to like go over to comments and make sure that they get addressed. Does anyone have any questions about things in the community? Yeah. Sorry, sorry. I think a general question is like how you deal with the difference with other open source. I think open source is like the model that Ethereum is like comparing itself to. And a lot of projects like when I like to contribute when I contribute to like an any open source project like let's say Cassandra, you go to the repo, you make contribution to PR request, right? It gets in, it's may or not, you know? Not in this, it's not getting in. But I feel with Ethereum and maybe that's like this in technology in general like how many PRs do I need to do? It was like I have Gath and I have Parity and I have like four others. It's a really good question. I need the political process to like get it from the top down, right? So that's like how do you deal with that? Great question, hard answer again. Okay, so yeah, how do you actually get a change in Ethereum? You can't just like submit a PR or you don't know where to go. The number one place that describes this process is EIP one. So there's a website and it's on the Ethereum repo as well but like there's an EPS repo and an EPS website and the first one really describes kind of the whole process at length. It's a bit of a dull read but there's basically two important distinctions. Are you doing something that changes the consensus rules or not? If you're doing something that doesn't change the consensus rule, an example of that is like ERC 20. That's usually kind of easier. Typically the process there is you'll just write your EEP, get feedback from the community through something like Ethereum magicians and whatnot. And there's some couple of time delays between like you get your draft merge, then you get feedback and then it gets like accepted and move to last call. But it's usually like a pretty like easy to understand process. And usually if everything is right, then you get something like an accepted EEP. And the thing is no one's obligated to use your EEP, like ERC 20, no one forces you to use ERC 20. But there is a need there that specifies it. So if you do want to use it, it's like documented. The hard part is what if you want to change like the consensus rules, right? You want to decrease the block reward, you want to add an opcode, stuff like that. That's what's called a core EEP. And basically the way that process goes is you first submit a draft. Typically you'll want to like kind of research your idea because there's a lot of core EEPs that have been submitted and abandoned in the past. So say you want to add like an opcode or something like that. Just trying to find out like, did people try to add this type of opcode in the past? And use that to kind of feed into your EEP. Once you have a draft, typically people will go on all core devs to present it, to get feedback. And then there'll be like discussions. And depending on how contentious your EEP is, you'll get like a commensurate level of discussion. So if you're saying like, one really good example, there was an EEP in Istanbul that was about adding a chain ID opcode, right? Super simple EEP to do, high value because smart contracts can know what chains they're on. Not really contentious, there's not really much I can go back there. So the person wrote the EEP, came on the calls, maybe a couple calls back and forth, how do you do the details? There was actually a competing EEP around there like do we do a pre-compiled or an opcode? So they had those discussions and it took awhile, the opcode one. And then once say like, there's like this consensus amongst like geth, parody and the other clients, they'll all implement it themselves. So typically as like an EEP champion, you only have to provide like a single implementation, whether it's against geth, parody, whatever language you're comfortable with. And when it gets accepted, then all the other clients will do it. So you don't have to do like five implementations. Obviously if it's more contentious, this process kind of falls apart a bit. And what you want to do is build, you want to build consensus within the community. And that's the hard part that I don't think there's like, there's no like one way to do that, right? Yeah, you basically, you kind of have to shill your EEP. And you have to create an EEP and get support for it. It's a political process. And people kind of, It's not just technical. Yeah, people kind of frame that as a negative part. I think, and it's true that like it does add some burden and it's not an easy thing to do. But at the same time, you are kind of changing your pretty use like a pretty big protocol. So there is always is going to be some kind of, I guess, threshold. You need to gain, you know, you can't just like change Ethereum and no one knows about it, right? And that like political process is kind of socializing this idea that you have within the community. And there's no good way to do that. I don't think there's any blockchain that has a good way to do that. Because even like one big alternative to this is like, well, what if you just have voting, you know, whatever mechanism to vote for these EPs instead, you still have to do that political process because you still need to get people to like vote in favor of your thing. And so it's, I don't think it's that different than any other major blockchain. And that's basically the creative process of contributing to an open source. You have to be creative and you have to create the memes around your EEP and make people to get interesting into your EEP to make it happen to make it get in into ecosystem. Yeah. Basically. Did you have a question? It was kind of answered there, but I guess what are your thoughts on, you know, some of the more gridlocked issues? How do you think the people can reach consensus faster? Yeah. Do you feel like it's slow? Is that? No, I don't know much about the process. Just, I know that like, just hearing from hearing some people talk that like, maybe they think that certain people's arguments aren't actually in good faith over certain things or like, I think also partially that's because over the internet, I feel like people are less, less trusting of people. So like maybe meeting in person or something and seeing the other persons are real human and hashing out. So I was thinking about this this week and I was telling you this when I wasn't listening to the first question. I don't know if there's been a blockchain that has had like a major contentious upgrade that has worked without splitting the network, right? And if there are examples, please send them to me. I'd love to know and try to understand them better. Because in general, like these networks are open, anyone can fork off, right? So if something is contentious enough that part of the community, you know, feels like it's a hill they're gonna die on, then they can go and, you know, die on that hill, like fork off and do that. And then the big question becomes what becomes the canonical, you know, protocol and not. But yeah, I think if there's one thing you could like add value to Ethereum to resolve it is like, what's the way we deal with contentious issues without splitting the network? Because I don't think any blockchain has figured it out. And even with Bitcoin, right? Like you had the user activated, soft fork, stuff like that, like people kind of revolted and when there were contentious upgrades. So yeah, I don't know. But like if we can figure this out, it's really valuable. Yeah, just to get the biases out upfront, I'm Brent Alsop with Canonizer.com just so you know I'm biased from the get go. But basically at the last quarter of meetings, Prague Powell was a big controversial issue and people attended the meeting. Some people were threatening that if we didn't do Prague Powell, there was gonna be a fork. And other people were saying, well, if we do do Prague Powell, there's gonna be a fork. But the problem is, is no one knows for sure. And so that's what we do at Canonizers. As you build consensus, you build and track it. It's basically a wiki with camps. And so people can join whichever side you're in. And that which you measure will improve. And you can find out what both sides want and you can work to build consensus. And it focuses on what everyone agrees on and that's what usually everyone misses because no one talks about that. But basically our goal at Canonizer is building and tracking and measuring consensus. Could you pull that up on the screen here? Canonizer. Briefly, yeah, yeah, let's take a look at that. I think shortly we'll break too because we want to get, start getting ready for the EEA session. But know that at 11.30 if you wanna come back and continue this discussion and whatever you wanna talk about, often we get into the protocol. But there's a lot of ERCs and there's a lot of creative stuff happening with tokens. There's so many different kinds of EIPs. And ERC is a type of EIP. So here ERC 20, that's actually an EIP. That's probably the most famous EIP. So there's so many different kinds of proposals. And if you wanna come back for the open discussion, open mic, we can discuss that. And we don't always have to drone on about the protocol. So there's many different aspects to get into. But I'd like to say if there's any final questions, we can talk about those. And then we gotta wrap to get ready for the enterprise session. Yeah, go ahead. I just wanted to add that one of the other ways you can really contribute to the discussions and moving EIPs forward isn't just writing EIPs. In many ways we kind of drown in proposals and ideas that people have floating around. One of the most valuable things you can do is actually go to the EIPs registry and look through what's there and start commenting and discussing and reviewing EIPs before they get scheduled for a hard fork. Because the process that generally happens is the EIP language is there for years. Eventually all core devs decide to put it into a hard fork and then Twitter blows up. And everyone says, I didn't know about this. There's this thing called a meta EIP. You should look out for it. That's a collection of what's gonna go, all the EIPs are gonna go into the next release. Yep. And finding some of these links as well, allcoredevs.com. It's not an official thing, but it links off to some of these GitHub things with long URLs and the meta EIP is linked there as well. Could you pull that up? One thing I'll add about these meta EIPs, we do them well in advance. And by we, I mean, they get done anyways. And all the stuff that's proposed for a future upgrade or hard fork is listed there. So it's not only like after the fact, oh, hey, the core devs decided these five things are in. But if you pull up like the Istanbul one, which is like 1679, oh, right there, it's linked Istanbul meta EIP. I had no idea it existed. Yeah, so if you scroll down, scroll down. So you see here, there's like a whole list of withdrawn stuff. Yeah. And they didn't start off as withdrawn. Like a couple of months ago, if you go on like the diff and look at the original version, these were all kind of proposed. And then through discussions, they kind of got accepted or withdrawn. And so this is like a really good place. There's one that's already open for the next upgrade after Istanbul, which is like has a placeholder name of Burdem. But, and I don't know the number, but so you can see stuff that's already being proposed there. If you want to propose something, you just open a PR against that meta EIP and then people will kind of see you want to propose that. And if you have strong opinions about anything that's proposed, like Adrian said, you can go and share those opinions and that's really useful to build consensus. Thank you, Tim, for the valuable contribution to this proposal.