 Alright, so yes. Hello everyone. My name is Samantha. I am part of the could pink Latin America team. Thank you so much everyone for joining us. And thank you to our panelists for joining us today as well. As most people are already aware, this is a really important event, given the recent attacks on Brazil's democracy by fascist groups. So today we have a really great panel of speakers who will discuss a little bit more in depth the current situation as well as the events that led up to this insurrection. That we saw on January 8. As most people already know a group of supporters of former President Jerry Bolsonaro attacked and ransacked Brazil's presidential palace the Supreme Court and Congress days. And of course, this latest attack on a progressive government in Latin America is definitely not something new. But we've been seeing throughout Latin America and with the most recent attack on on the government and on democracy being in Peru. And yeah, so we have these three really wonderful guests who are all calling from Brazil to give us more information, some more context. Please put your questions on the chat as our guests present and we'll go over them after they speak. So we're going to get started with our first guest. I'm sure a lot of our guests already are familiar with her. Camila is always on the ground she's always covering social movements and in giving us news live news from the ground and what's going on in context. Camila is the editor of Cosatchin news and press TV correspondent now reporting from Sao Paulo. I will begin with an overview of the current situation, as well as any latest news and touch a little bit on the recent calls to extradite Bolsonaro and what has been the US's response. So take it away, Camila. Okay. Thank you so much for having me code pink Samantha and Michelle. And it's great to be on this Giovanni and Gabriella and in some ways I'm sure they know a lot more than me about some sort of Brazilian expert more am I Brazilian just a disclaimer but I think it's a really important country for us as Cosatchin news and the other outlets that I work with to cover. I've been doing coverage here for press TV. Since, well, on several occasions in the last year, including throughout the election process and editorially I believe it's a really important country really significant country in terms of world powers, and the sort of program that Lula has and the vision he has for this country, as far as Latin American integration and just the project of bringing people out of poverty and ending hunger in this country generally. So, and I was asked to give a little bit of a news update or recount what happened on Sunday. So, I guess we'll just start with January 1. I traveled with the social movements and a lot of other people did it was a historic inauguration of President Lula de Silva, lots of people wanted to be in Brazil for his third inauguration as president so hundreds of thousands of people from different states of the country and of course we saw lots of dignitaries and a large number of presidents and prime ministers, and other high ranking officials from around the world went to participate in this very important inauguration. It was attended widely by social movements by indigenous peoples and, you know, representatives of communities and Afro descendant peoples unions of course Lula de Silva comes from the union movement. And of course, the workers party that many other parties from the left of the spectrum were there. And, you know, because of all of the different threats and, you know, even paranoia, or some of the things that have considered to be political violence that's taken place during the campaign period, and the sustained so called protests or demonstrations held by the provost and our sectors who refuse to recognize the result of the October 30th election. There was a large amount of really tight security around the inauguration and that was part of why a lot of the social movements traveled to Brasilia in an organized form to camp out to be there was to ensure that nothing went wrong. And nothing went wrong. It was very overall, peaceful, and the inauguration took place as planned. And so a week later, which was Sunday on the eighth of January is when we saw the storming of the astronaut by, if you ask the social movements and the workers of workers party the PT Gracie Hoffman, for example, it has been characterized as an invasion by fascists by even terrorists against the democratic institutions of the country against democracy against the sovereign will of the people to elect their and elect their government and of course it's an attack on the political project that brought Lula to power this third time. It's an attack on the social movements and the projects of the most vulnerable sectors of this country that wants to see the country going a different direction than it has been the last four years under Jerry Bolsonaro was not only an attack on one individual with the silver and his ministers. So Bolsonaro had actually been absent from the, from the country before the inauguration he was given advice to flee the country, he chose to go to Florida, because his advisor told him that as soon as the government changed hands, that they would be a great chance that he could be arrested for any of the number of things that he's being investigated for different cases. And so he decided to leave the country in advance he didn't participate in handing the sash over the presidential sash over to Lula de Silva. So he was absent from the country. But questions remain as to what sort of influence or direct or indirect role he had on what transpired on Sunday. So what transpired on Sunday and the early afternoon. Essentially buses of people dropped off a bunch of these cobalt scenario supporters, many of whom have been participating in the different camps, the different protests, going on around the country there's been a protest camp that by now should be completely dismantled at the army barracks in Brasilia, but there were many other similar protest camps at the different army barracks around the country, including here in Sao Paulo that lasted several weeks, and other road blockades, particularly in the southern states like Paraná, and Santa Catarina, which are pretty much known as Bolsonaro strongholds. And where a lot of the governor's and local officials haven't really taken action to dismantle those camps. And so those sorts of people came to Brasilia, not Brasilia residents, people were busting to take part in this invasion of the Esplanade and what is called the three powers. So, a big march to place throughout Brasilia. They ended up there at the Esplanade, which is the location of the plan out to a palace, the Supreme Electoral Court, and the, sorry, and the legislature, the Congress. So, the police were there, of course, and they were shooting tear gas, almost like a joke. I mean, I don't even know how to characterize it because I've been, I've been in tear gas situations and experienced repression by police. Many times in different countries, and it can really disable you if it's really strong tear gas obviously there's different types of tear gas. There's under grenades and different things that the police can use. And if you watch the videos because the people who invaded these buildings were streaming on Instagram, they were live. It looks like a performance like nobody was actually hurt you didn't actually see people trembling or getting like severely injured, because there was no repression, because the security forces were not in fact doing their job. As we saw when this huge crowd of people, thousands of people, maybe someone has the figure, were able to enter the Congress, the palace and, and Supreme Court. So, in no way were they impeded. That was considered by Lula's government to be incompetence by, by those in charge of security. So the state of security in Brazil. Well, around the country are the state governors the state governments. And in this case, it was someone who, you know, essentially was collaborating by allowing this to take place is, you know, a probal scenario figure, and eventually what happened later on was that Lula had to decree federal order to get the situation under control which it was put under control very quickly. It only lasted a few hours. So, in the entry the storming of these different buildings, there was multi million dollar damage including to art pieces to chairs to people's offices. Obviously the exterior of the buildings shattered glass everywhere, those videos of the aftermath can be seen online. And this is one incident and where in which some of the people invaded a intelligence security intelligence room and they took weapons which is said to be something that they would have needed some information to be able to do that. There's sort of suspicion that they might have been given information to go there and take those weapons, they set fire to things as well but they were. Those both lethal and non lethal weapons out of that office. During the course of, you know everything that took place which was a few hours journalists were reported being beaten, having their cameras and things and belonging stolen. And there were no deaths but there were a lot of detentions not necessarily immediately of course because for a couple of hours they were just going at these buildings and absolutely destroying them with basically nobody, nobody there to intervene. So you could see on some of the viral videos online that were posted by the Bolsonaro says themselves that police were just kind of standing, you know, alongside them, not really acting and in some cases they're actually, you know, helping them. And so in no way were they, you know, doing their job of protecting these buildings. So Lula was out of town he was in Sao Paulo and the interior of the state of Sao Paulo in an area that has been damaged by heavy rains and mudslides and where people lost their lives and so he had been visiting that emergency area. And so it was a Sunday, there was no no one in session no one was working in these buildings so in that sense nobody was hurt, but Lula had a press conference. And he announced the decree for federal intervention in Brasilia, and said that people will be swiftly. They will commence investigations swiftly and that there will be punishment for the acts committed the acts of vandalism and some, some, in some cases violence and worst, that those investigations would be open right away. They also announced that several states around the country would be sending in extra police officers to Brasilia to secure the capital. And in the first night on Sunday, a couple hundred people were arrested by the next day was like 1500 people were either detained or being investigated, some of whom are continuing are still held right now. And they're denouncing currently like rough conditions. They're basically saying things like we're being held in like a concentration camp and stuff but they're live streaming, and they're on Instagram. And they're actually showing images of the food that they're being fed while in detention, and it's the same food that we were fed when we were in Brasilia. The social movements camping out for the inauguration so it's like perfectly fine food. I think the investigations that are commencing now, they're asking who has financed this. I mean a lot of the people who took place who took part in the destruction are not. I mean it's just very clear that they couldn't possibly be, you know the masterminds behind some of them, you know, have been duped and misled into participating in these acts. And so, you know, they have looked into immediately the first day they had the list of the names of the people who had financed the buses that should people and I don't know the number of buses, but you know this was something that was obviously planned and orchestrated. And, you know, what Lula has said and others in his government and around him have said, is that they suspect that who's behind this is, you know the businesses that are behind Amazon deforestation illegal logging illegal mining interests agribusiness in general. And, you know, it's a it's a larger question of not only who financed what took place on Sunday with the storming of these buildings but who generally has been providing that sort of material support for all the different communities in around the country, who has sustained for so many weeks these camps, and there are videos online that show that they're not, you know, they're not camping it out like really rough, and you know just having a minimalist time, they they're having a cookout they're having barbecues and they're having really nice cuts of meat. And that's all been demonstrated it's kind of just like a big party for them when they're doing so called protests against the election result in the 30th. And so, you know, that leads to more suspicion that this could be linked to agribusiness, and like the sorts of the sorts of people who could provide, you know, these different things that they need to be able to camp out for long tables chairs is kind of like a really a nice setup that they have going on. And so this is all going to be investigated now. And so then Sunday or Monday, well on Sunday, the social movements convoked mobilizations around the country in response. And so Monday we saw massive mobilizations in all state capitals but also in smaller towns and places around the country I covered the big mobilization here on Paulista Avenue that marched throughout the center of Sao Paulo and it was just absolutely massive it's not just like so called petistas and people who are supporters and members of the workers party that Lula belongs to but a lot of a lot of organizations football anti fascist fan clubs, like Santos like Corinthians, and a lot of other organization countless organizations was very large. And I have colleagues who covered similar large demonstrations and other parts of the country, repudiating these attacks on democracy attacks, attacks on the project that they voted for, but they didn't only vote for it it's what they mobilized for, and brought to power for those elections since 2016. You know that's kind of been the slogan around the country has been to bring Lula back to power. Since the coup took place against Dilma Rousseff. You know, a lot of Brazilians feel that this is the only person who can bring such a broad section of the population together, in order to get the country back on track. So the question now is this Lula is going to, to what extent Lula and his Justice Minister, and his government going to sort of crack down on everything that's taken place. A lot of people have been able to hold these road blockades and the so called protests and tried to cause damage to the economy. And they represent, you know, a far right, more radical section of the population. And, you know, they haven't been really arrested or there hasn't been a big response to them obviously Lula has only been in power for a week and a half, but now that all of this has happened and has, you know, escalated the population country. And Lula has a lot of support both internally. He has a lot of legitimacy. He convened all of the state powers on Monday he met with all the state governors and vice governors they all came to Brasilia to meet, and it seems like he even has a little bit of support. I mean, to use that word loosely from even, you know, political leaders of other parties that are typically against Lula and everything he stands for, because people don't want to be associated with this level of violence and chaos they want to, you know, start this new presidential term on the right foot, at least cooperating on some minimal level with Lula. And so it seems like he has a lot of space to potentially pursue these real, you know, real institution of these different people, not necessarily the people that they bust away to, to the stadium or wherever they're being held but finding out who actually has supported these different acts, and bringing them to justice assuming that a lot of these people are local business owners or those sorts of people and not international in terms of international then. And so they're looking into of course, and what ways durable scenario himself because these are of course all followers of the ex president, and his allies in the exterior, basically all in the United States, and what ways they have played some sort of role directly or indirectly, and that's when we get to the extradition of Bolsonaro from the United States. The State Department did directly address this this week, well not directly he couldn't say that he couldn't say Ned Price, the State Department spokesperson could not actually name durable scenario, and he couldn't speak to his case, but a couple of times this tried a couple times to press Ned Price on this issue, and essentially he came, he traveled to the United States he's been in Orlando and Miami I believe, on a 30 day visa as a, as a head of state as a diplomat or head of state, which is its own distinct visa. Obviously now he's no longer president, but because he's not in the United States for any official business or reason, he like just about anyone else will have to go through the process of having to renew his status prolong his stay there, have some other reason to be in the United States because that the status that he's on currently will expire, even if he's in the hospital or has some health condition that he's receiving before. And of course, there are some calls being made from members of the US Congress and other US personalities about questioning, you know, the Biden administration on why this person is allowed to be in the country, and calling for his extradition to be a lot of people here in Brazil calling for Bolsonaro's extradition, so that he can face justice here in Brazil, but it's unclear, you know, Biden and Bolsonaro are not exactly allies. I wonder how that will all go down once his visa expires. We know also that members of the Bolsonaro family have been seeking citizenship and status in Italy, and trying to go other another route. But the Italian Prime Minister who's far right also denounced the storming of the capital. So, it's unclear what options Bolsonaro has and for how long he'll be able to stay in the United States. And those calls for his extradition are beginning now. So, I'll hand it over to you guys and hopefully we can circle back with more questions later. Thank you so much for that wonderful overview. It's very clear that Bolsonaro, I mean, the Lula has support internationally and it's great to hear that he has a lot of support nationally as well. And so now we're going to be speaking with Camila, I mean sorry, with Gabriela, Gabriela is also a journalist, and she is calling in from Brazil as well. Thank you so much, Gabriela for being here and yes, she will be speaking a little bit more about the response from from students and social movements and yes, you can go ahead and take it away. Thank you, Samantha. Hi, I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for the invite so good to be with Camila and Giovanni. I know they work, they're working so great. It's so good to talk about it. And I guess it's so good to talk about it with a North American community in space because the first thing that we said like I was with a couple friends we were actually enjoying kind of all because no one expected this to happen right now. As Camila said, it was something that the attempt of coup happened without actually a trigger you know, with nothing really happened we haven't haven't had any any problem with the government, no bigger news we only have had the nomination of ministers and secretaries of government. So nothing was really happening. And what not, and there was no trigger so we were actually joining our first week of vacation in four years as social movements, I guess, Giovanni know that we haven't stopped working. And four years heavily more if you count the last elections which was very, very, very hard and very difficult in 2018. So, when it happened the first thing I guess we will all looked around and said like this looks so much as the attempt of the capitol in the capitol in the United States, which has recently completed a year I guess. And two years, Giovanni thank you. And so this comparison was like inevitable, and we started talking about how we have Latin America and how the world is rising of the far right movements of the fascist movements, and that there was no no news in Brazil, like Camila has said we have had these campaigns out of military unity, all around Brazil, we have them in here where I live. I've seen that in other states of Brazil, very heavily in Rio de Janeiro, where Bolsonaro is from. So, we knew that things were not peacefully being held here in Brazil by the opposition. But at the same time, we were kind of managing it. I guess Lula was trying this first moment this first week is first few days of government to work and try and work and try to organize the house because everything was so messed up. We have had the transition government, which has worked for the last two months. And they have brought us a description of what was going on inside the government with our government finances, especially, and we were, we were confronted with the fact that Brazil was broken. And then we had so much work to do. And there was so much work for the government to do and so much work for the social movements. And I guess Lula was in this first moment trying to organize everything, choosing its ministers, having its first discourse and it was not, it was not being held right away, the fascist groups movements. I guess it was kind of expecting it to go away by its own with the progress of the government. But since January 8th, we have seen a shift. I guess it was the opportunity for Lula, the government and also the social movements to start going and trying to talk about it like directly. And I guess at the end of the day, it was a very violent movement with a very violent attempt of coup. But and we had so much destruction as Camila has told us so much works of art and it was so, so shocking, but at the same time, it kind of inverted the discourse in Brazil because even many people who use it to support Bolsonaro Bolsonaro you could see in the social media that people were against it. Even a lot of fake news emerged people saying that there were people who are higher to destroy everything there were people from the left wing and they were not real Bolsonaro supporters and that kind of thing but all those fake news have been dismantled last few days, which is very, very good that their discourse and their narratives are not being held. And through this, the social movements have been pulling a campaign against amnesty for Bolsonaro his family people from the government, and also the people who have been fighting this attempt of coup. So we have shifted the situation. And I guess it has become an opportunity for us in Brazil to talk about what has been happening to talk about fascism in Brazil, Lula his first, first time he spoke publicly, after the event, he, he already said this is a fascist movement and which was very important as far to give the face, because we have been talking about fashions in Brazil as social movement for four years. And we, it was so hard to illustrate that to the society, and they have done it for us. They have shown us what fascism is what is this far right can do. What is political. How do you say it political opposition, illegal position can do what an a far right position can do, and it has been shown us and then on the test that we went to the streets in Sao Paulo we had 60 to 70,000 people in the streets were so much more than were in Brazil. So we could show them that we had a big supportive as big support for the government. It was so important for us right now to show that the government is not working alone. Social movements and the other party after left wing and center parties they are also, and also few right parties who even both another party has spoken against this movement. So no one is actually backing it up. And that's why the investigations are so important for us to understand and give the names to who has done it. And who has ordered this attack. But the social movements have been using it very well to talk about the situation in Brazil, and also in a more talking about justice and talking about what has been done, been doing the government has been doing. You know, Lula and the Supreme Court have been clearly been working to, to take this opportunity to dismantle the scampings to investigate people to, to also, for example, I guess Camila Camila didn't mention this but I guess today or yesterday. They have arrested 50 police officers from Brazil, who have been, who had been should be should have been working that day. And then, as we saw from the videos and the recordings they were not they were like, being very easy on the protest protesters after the coup is a terrorist, and these people were arrested they have been, and now I have huge investigation it has been done. A lot of requests for Bolsonaro at prediction for Bolsonaro investigation and his part on everything are being held. So, we know that a lot has been has been is been doing that we thought we're going to take a longer time and don't know if he's already agrees but I thought the investigations and all of our work as social movement and all of the progress we want to make we're going to be done in a few months but they are been doing right now, because of this, the situation that was presented, and I guess. We are in an estate of alerts as social movement tomorrow is program and another manifestation in Brazil from the social movements the left wing parties and progressive people they're going to go to Brazil to make a demonstration and support of the government against the coup against fascism, which is also very important. And we have like, we have a great amount of people organized and ready to face the next steps that we have to take. Also, we had many, many demonstrations of the supporting the government we had them internally. I was on Monday in a act that was promoted by the law school of the University of São Paulo, which was very important with many people who actually had already in in August last August, made a letter to the Brazilian people, talking about democracy, talking about the importance of defending our democracy, they were reunited on Monday to reinforce the positioning against the coup against fascism in Brazil, saying how much important for us to support the government right now, and to make it is hold strongly as we are as we're doing. And also we have we have seen many supporters from many other countries, many other parties, presidents, leaders, who have talked on behalf of the government, saying that they're against this kind of demonstration, that they support Brazilian democracy this happened with Biden Biden talked talked about it, he called the Lula and they had like this. Lula is a figure I guess it's also important for people to understand who Lula is in Brazil who is internationally, it which is a figure that represents dialogue the fragrance of figure that represents this, this midterm between social movements and reach people Brazil and the agro and the, the, the, and all the social sectors we have. And he has always been very successful in maintaining a good diplomatic relationship with everyone, every country and that's why during his government Brazil had an increase in its participation in the UN for example in very many other international organizations, we have had a lot of construction in our region Latin America in the South America we have been, it got stronger as a region economically in its political relations. And that's why he also represents a new, a new moment for Brazil, and he is going to use all his this political capital that he has this, this possibility that he has to reconstruct the country in a different way in a way that especially people from rural and these people who came from rural has said, are destroying the Amazon forests and they're exploring in a very, in a legal way actually the, the night nature resources of Brazil in, and it represents a, a problem for a lot of people you know a, for this kind of people and from, that's why we need to investigate who's behind this attempt of coup, and his attempts of, of dismantling the government. And I guess a few things that happened that are very important internationally since we're talking to here with people from other countries, it's how, for example, Lula has re-entered the Celaki, I don't know how to say it in English, but it's the Latin America community, a Latin American Caribbean community, and also recently the president of Colombia, Gustavo Petro was in Brazil for the election. And he had a very interesting interview, I guess a lot of people have seen it, which he talked about how the left wing has reemerged in Latin America. We have many presidents from left parties and progressive thinking parties and, and it has been crowned with the election of Lula, and which represents a lot of change for the region, a lot of change internationally as the region talks to the entire world because with Brazil, which is the biggest country, not only in its size but also economically in the region, it means a lot of power for this kind of organization and this kind of political relationships. And Gustavo Petro was here and he talked about this new moment for Latin America, and he talked about how important it is for us to develop our country and develop Brazil. And that's the kind of thing that Lula represents and is exactly the opposite of what Bolsonaro has done the last four years, which was to destroy any kind of sovereignty we have in Brazil, any kind of dependency we have as a country in our economic relationships and our finances. And Lula represents a new chapter and it's very threatening, that's the word I was trying to remember, very threatening to many groups. And I guess we're going to have to stay focused to respond as this kind of thing happens. But I guess as a whole, the government and social movement have been answering and responding to this event very rapidly and very assertively, which is very good for us and very hopeful. And I guess this is it, I guess I've used the minutes I had. And thank you so much for the invite again. Thank you, Gabriela. And for our guests, for our attendees, please remember to put your questions on the Q&A and we will get to them towards the end unless you have a specific question for one of the speakers. So now we will be hearing from our last guest speaker, Giovanni. Giovanni is an internationalist by passion. He has a bachelor's degree in international relations and is doing his master's in world political economy at the Federal University of ABC with a research on international security and geopolitics of the Amazon Basin. He's an activist and part of the National Coordination of the Movimiento Horacil Popular. So, Giovanni, you can take it away. So thank you so much, Samantha. Thank you so much, Gabriela and Camila, Michelle, for having me here. I don't know if I have any more contributions considering the brilliant and precise analysis already made by Gabriela and Camila, but I can try something here. I think the first thing considering everything that we already discussed here is that when we elected Lula in the last year, we were saying that Lula's election would be just the first step to defeat fascism. This is important because this is what we are seeing nowadays. This is the reaction of the fascists, you know, against the result of the elections. So we can expect more and more things like this, movements like this. And in fact, I can, I don't know if I can say that I don't know if this is a consensus, but I think in fact Bolsonaro is not the only leader of those, those kinds of movements. In fact, I think now Bolsonaro is a leader, of course, because he has this reference with these groups. But now we have different fascist groups being created since the beginning of the Bolsonaro's government. Of course, we have this as a society in the history, but considering the Bolsonaro's government, it was a government to create, to mobilize, to stimulate those kinds of groups and to deepen the fake news, to deep the process against the women, against indigenous people, against the LGBT, well, everything we already know this history. So the first thing I think is important to understand that our threat here that we are facing as Gabriela mentioned is not a new thing in an isolated case. We can see this kind of connection of attack, attack against the democracy in many parts of the world. We can see in Peru, as we are seeing nowadays with the dictatorship of all the coup that is happening there, more than 47 people just one month were murdered. Come on, this is a extremely attack of the far right against the people's democracy against the people will. So, also it's the same that we can see that the supporters of Trump in the United States, the supporter of Le Pen in France, the supporters of the Fratelli in Italy. We can see a kind of connection of the far right connected internationally. And here in Brazil, we have two kinds of leaders. In one hand, we have Lula, and I really think that now considering the response on Monday. Including on Sunday, but then on Monday and all the support from the Supreme Court, the support from the legislative, the support of all 27 governors of Brazil, including the right wing governors that work in Brazil with Lula together so I think it's a kind of second inauguration of Lula we can put, I think we can put in that kind of level, we need to understand if this movement can be consolidate the second inauguration I think we need to see the next steps in the history that will follow us from and I want to understand how that can be consolidate, but we have Lula as a leadership of a national union against the fascism. We have this kind of and we have this position I think Lula is being recognized as this leadership internationally. And at the same time we have the leadership of the fascist. In fact, he's in Florida in the business world, we know that, but we know that we, he resumes a kind of stage that we can see to very different types of leaders in one hand against the fascism. In the other hand, one of the leaders of the fascism in the world. So, I think, as a first comment, I would like you to put on this as a scenario that we are living here in Brazil. So, but what is the difference that we can see of the supporters of Bolsonaro, considering when Bolsonaro was the president and not that he's not anymore. What is the difference for the tactics, you know, in terms of strategy and tactics, what we can see in terms of tactics of those fascist movement. Now, they, they fully support a coup. They are fully supporting a military intervention, as always, they mentioned, but when you have the government in your head, you can put this kind of agenda of military intervention with different levels. Now, we are facing a different scenario to them. So I think we can identify three men movements as tactics, tactical movements of those fascist groups. The first one is the permanent destabilization of the Lula government. So what we saw in Sunday, we can see in other moments we already seen on social media is on those two groups, we can see all the same thing, we need a military intervention. So the second thing is to establish a military intervention. This is the way how to solve in their mind, the problems of the dictator of the judiciary in Brazil, as they mentioned. And the third one is the annulment of the political rights of the leftist parties and leadership. So it's a total fascist agenda. And the other hand, in our considering the people's mobilization, we have other kind of agenda to defeat those agenda of the fascist. And here, considering the peoples, the Brazilian people agenda, we could, what we, I don't know what you think, Gabriela, about that but what was heard most in the streets on Monday, the day after of the attacks in in Brazil. What was heard most was no amnesty, no amnesty for Bolsonaro for his supporters. So there is a public will to see the people be identified who are the responsible who is financing all this process. And who in the parliament is part of that pool inside the government inside the institutions are being supporters of those groups. So, there is a public feeling I don't know that there is a spirit in the air that we need to to move forward we need to identify and penalize the people and considering the reality of the Brazilian society that you know we have the armed forces here as being part in the historical moments as part of the coup d'etat. You can see that during all the Republic, the period of the Republic in Brazil, of course, and also the dictatorial regime in the last century, and also, there's the same idea now. It's kind of difficult, I think, for Lula government to to face what we call here a military issue, because it's not a simple test to do that. We have, you know, years and years centuries and centuries the army force being part as an institution of course, of the country they have the arms the weapons in their hands, and we really know the army forces and also the public security and the police. The majority of those men's and women support Bolsonaro's idea the fascist ideas. That's the reality. So, there's no possibility to have a strong and only one measure of Lula to to solve all the problem. There is a complex issue with many many layers that need to be faced to to first of all I think the emergency there is an emergency question is to isolate fashion, the measures to buy Lula on Sunday and Monday can hold can help us to understand that now the fact now just now the fascist movement the fascist supporter are are isolated, but it can be different in some weeks after of all of this, so we need a permanent a permanent mobilization of the people a permanent mobilization of the government against this, this crisis against the fascist groups to identify and to condemn them to penalize them. There's no possibility to negotiate with the fascism. I think this is the clear message that we need to think when we are seeing all these days. I think that the army forces is a complex issue here in Brazil, just to I don't know if this is everyone here that is listening us and seeing. Thank you for your time again and thank you for this conversation is amazing to have this kind of exchange Brazil United States and all parts of West America together discussing that. In fact, we have the public support of the army forces, why I'm saying that, because in one hand, we didn't see, we didn't see any only one general saying publicly condemning what the camp of the fascists in front of the barracks. So, we saw camp scenes, the end of the elections the results of this the second, the second, not second term that the second election I forgot second round that the end of the second round, we saw fascist groups camping during 70 70 days in front of the barracks, and they didn't nothing, they didn't nothing so they are part of that they are part of that thing about if it was a different group of leftist groups, saying different things in front of the headquarters of the military facilities. So, things about the destiny of those leftist support that groups. So, it's different is different. So, and more than that, the most updated pools, published by Atlas Internet, you know this is a big data company that provide us some data, and they, they, they offer yesterday, one pool provide the data that 80% of Bolsonaro's voters support the military intervention in Brazil so it's not a common thing considering that Bolsonaro achieved 58 million votes in Brazil so it's hard to do the thing. Easy going situation that we are facing. That's why I really believe that the response, the people's response, the Lula's government response, this national union government against the fascist need to think in the short term, but in the middle and also in the long path that we have in front of us to dismantle all of it. So, I think that I think the, the, we could see the 1,500 people being arrested, and more than 700 are in the jail now. So, this is the data, the spirit of the things and it's also curious that these people that now is in the jail that they are dire lives, they, they, they were against the human rights. They are calling asking for the human rights, because of their situation in the jail. So we are saying we are seeing this, this thing here in Brazil, and I really believe that we need to pay attention in all of it because what Lula's is trying to do is a national union government. As Gabriela mentioned, Lula has these characteristics. Is it good? Is it a good, is it a good man that have the negotiation? He puts different parts together and trying to combine a common strategy to move forward. In fact, because of these many times, the left-wing organizations protest against Lula because sometimes he made negotiations with people that the left-wing do not agree, but this is part of the process to be the president in a capitalist country, I think. Yeah. So, I think it's also part of all these processes as I tried to mention here and trying to explain the complexity that we face specifically in the military issue here in Brazil. I think we have the president that have the best conditions to move forward a plan of unity, a national union of the institutions. So liberal is very, the idea is so liberal. In fact, because we need to support the liberal ideas when we are seeing the rise of the far right. So this is a kind of tactical movement that is important that I really believe that we have the conditions to move forward. But in fact, this need to be a movement, a permanent movement of mobilization of the people. On the streets express people's power, people's support of this agenda of identify the responsibles and penalize them. So now the Brazilian organizations, the people's organization here in Brazil are calling for a national mobilization next Sunday in Brasilia. Again, so trying to move forward a permanent agenda on social media, on the streets, on parliament and all kinds of institutions to mobilize the support to this agenda to defeat the fascist permanently. So it requires us this, this energy, this effort of bring together the efforts of all kinds of political spectrums. Since then they can put together the force against the fascism, the power against fascism. This is very, very important to move forward because in fact I don't have time now to explain more. I can put my, my, my, my attention on the challenge of the military issue here in Brazil, but we also can put the second challenge I think Lula has two challenges in front. Now we are seeing because of the, the, the recent, the situation on Sunday, the military issue, but also we have the economic issue specifically the neoliberal agenda in Brazil this other part of the same coin of the fascism. As the professors would say in private but night from India they mentioned to us the strong connection between neoliberalism and now fascism nowadays we have the neoliberal agenda. Getting worse the conditions for living it means for the people of course for the majority and then it means fear and fertile ground to spread fake news and the fascist ideology. And that other subject but it's also important to point that Lula has two main challenges. What is the military issues that could be explored by what we could see in the last Sunday but also at the same time and part of the crisis, the social crisis in the neoliberal agenda put by the financial market but this is other conversation. Thank you so much. And just one thing that I saw a question answer box here. Why Gabriella mentioned a new movement of Lula nowadays, because of that Lula this third movement of Lula now there is a specific characteristic, because we are talking about the government after Bolsonaro and it means a government of reconstruction of the country. So this is why it's a new moment because now more than ever, it's a moment that requires us generosity to put together different groups of the politics to defeat the fascism. So our efforts are not overcoming our will to defeat isolate and defeat fascism. I think this could be a good start to answer that. Thank you so much. Thank you Giovanni for the very thorough and complex overview that really just like situates what's going on and in Brazil just to a global issue and I think it's really great this connection that you made between neoliberalism and fascism I think that it really does go hand in hand. And the fact that you know that fascism was not going to be defeated by an act just by Lula but it will need a strong social movement and taking the streets and organizing and I think that applies not only to Brazil but it's a lesson that we can also be taking here, as well as other parts of the world where there's threat of fascism and the rise of fascism. So thank you so much Giovanni for making all those connections. And it looks like we do have a number of questions here. And thank you for answering the one about the new movement of Lula. And here we have David Paul. What has the military been saying and what do you think they will be doing forward, because I understand many government powerful positions are made up of military from the last government. So, I'm not sure who would feel the most comfortable taking up that question. I spoke a lot, so WL please or Camila. Yeah, I was actually going to say that Giovanni has already addressed this question a little bit, talking about what's the profile of the military wing in Brazil. It's very hard. I am a master NAPT candidate in the University of São Paulo and I have been studying in my master's dictatorship in Latin America and what I can say about it is how we have a very strong heritage in Brazil from the dictatorship. So the military wing, it's very, very hard to organize and to dialogue and to talk to with the government and it has been throughout all the governments we've had since the redemocratization. And so, but the last government we had the Bolsonaro government were for years where this happened exactly in the question, we've had many important non related to military issues posts in the government occupied by military, the military and right now Lula has already changed a lot of that so we've had many ministers who are from military. I'm not going to say numbers here. I'm so bad number that I remember, but we have already had this important change. And we've had so many changes in secretaries of government and this has been done very perfectly by the new government so I guess this is something that we're going to this has been been working on. For example, we have the organization of a government organization that deals with the issues of the indigenous people in Brazil which is called funai. And it was very, it was occupied, occupied by military. The last few years which represented a huge problem for our indigenous people rights and our protection, the protection of the land in Brazil in the Amazon for us and actually this has already been changing radically. We have new people who are who are now constructing this organization which has actually also changed its name, I don't know, even if we say funai anymore, because, but we have now it's called original people, original people and so I guess we have seen a lot of change and Lula was someone who in his previous governments talked a lot to generals and to people in the military and he has been able to, for example, do a lot in for example, investigating crimes in the in the victim Brazilian dictatorship, at the same time as he kept I guess it's okay. And he as he kept a dialogue an open dialogue with this, this, this part of the society, but at the same time we cannot deny the fact that of course we have had a major issue that was not addressing that we try and silence this, this group through the last governments before Bolsonaro which were, which were to Lula's government and his successor Dilma who ruled for six years. So, we now have to kind of re-hacked with this, this heritage that we have not only the from last century but from our last governments, our last governments from Lula and Dilma that we have had this kind of this, this problem growing inside of Brazil in which was not dealt with. And now we're seeing in with Bolsonaro's election and Dilma's coup and the last four years, how they are still a very strong holder of power in Brazil, and they cannot be underestimated and they have to have a, a, I guess the government has to prioritize the light dialogue as I very much agree with what Giovanni has said about this being one of the greatest issues that Lula's new government is going to have to face the military situation, its relationship with the military leaders and everything. And so, I don't know, I don't know if Giovanni wants to add anything, but I guess this is what I had. Do you have anything else to add Giovanni? No, no, no, this is precise, precise. Thank you so much Gabriela. Yes, I think it is very visible that this will be one of the, the biggest issues that Lula will have to face and his new government. So here we have another question from Clark Joseph. Is it true that 95% of the wealth of Brazil has been confiscated by 5% of its people. I think this question gets to the issue of inequality and in Brazil, just as the case in a lot of Latin American countries. I really don't know the exact number, but in fact Brazil is one of the most unequal countries in the world. So, of course, we would be, I don't know that, as I mentioned the precise percentage, but in fact we can see will be an absurd, a tragedy, of course this is because we have a rich country, as you know, water, land resource, a natural resource, a lot of people, and a good market to sell things and to exploit too. So, I really don't know the number sorry about that I was not prepared for that question here. Maybe Camila, our most updated comrade here can explain that I don't know Camila if you know this information. Oh, not I know I'm half in Peru land mentally right now but I wish I had that information for you but it sounds to be you know like it seems like that's largely the case in all countries right. I also don't know. Thank you. And Clark, I, I'm sure we can look that up on Google at some point. And here we have another question by Stephen Martin. I just read the 200 page executive summary of the January 6 committee in the US is some similar investigation possible in Brazil. I don't know if that if it's the case that something like that will take place here. And I think it's really important that as much as it is very important to draw the connections between different countries, and the far right and how it's articulating and that sectors are radicalizing that Brazil is its own distinct country with its own distinct process and political entities. And I think it's very serious and distinct that there's a far right here that is receiving perhaps material support and being inspired by external interests, and that was not the case in the United States Honestly, I would be very cautious about calling what happened I don't know what the position of code pink is for example, but I'd be very cautious about what happened in the storming of the capital. In Washington calling that a coup because those were really like us citizens that stormed one government building. Whereas in Brazil it was three buildings they have total disrespect and contempt for the Brazilian institutions and democracy here. And, you know, I do think it's a, you know, I know that the polls have come out even right after Sunday polls came out that showed that 90% of the Brazilian population don't agree with the storming of these buildings. So, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the people who voted for a Bolsonaro and who, you know, essentially lost in October that they support this, but you know, we do have to remember that this is genuinely a secular government that was brought to power by years of organizing by the grassroots. And that's not the case in the United States, the United States is a very corrupted and very elitist electoral system in which third parties aren't able to exist really to have third parties in most of government, including on the state level throughout the country and that this is a country the United States that systematically disenfranchises voters to this day, in which people can't vote on the basis of being black and all sorts of other things. It's so deeply anti-democratic to its core, the political and electoral system of the United States. And so I'm not trying to give legitimacy to the people storming the Congress in the United States, but I am just saying that perhaps instead of right wing supporters of like right wing talk radio hosts or something, storm storming the Capitol, it could have also been black people storming the Capitol, or you know, like sort of like Black Lives Matter supporters, or some other group. There are a lot of reasons why Susan's United States might feel justified in sort of carrying out these sorts of acts against police stations against all sorts of different things. It literally is an authoritarian state and a dictatorship that you live under there in the United States. So I don't think it's the same. You literally have, you know, billionaires in the United States that are financing anti-democratic acts in Brazil. And I think that should be the real concern. What happened here truly undermines democracy because this is a country that has potential to even have a revolution in the near future, whereas the United States really is not at that point, because it doesn't really have social movements and mass movements that have articulated and on that sort of level doesn't really have that ideology among any of these different sectors that exist here in Brazil. So, I mean, that's just the one thing I have to say because, you know, I've been invited on to a lot of radio programs and different interviews and stuff like that, or a lot of, you know, they're trying to draw a lot of similarities between the two things because of Brazil. It was a copycat action in some sense. But I do think that the two processes are quite distinct. And, you know, this idea that there are people perhaps in Florida that are financing terrorism here in Brazil, just the way that people in Florida have been financing terrorism in El Salvador and Cuba and Nicaragua and Venezuela, I think it's something very severe that puts this on another level. Yes, thank you, Camila, for making that really important distinction about the two countries and different political process that we have are completely distinct. So I think I think it's really important to bring that up considering that our mainstream outlets are, you know, making a very strong case about comparing these two issues and kind of just glossing over the nuances of the distinctions. Giovanni, did you want to say something else? Just a brief comment considering that question because it's important to understand that now the Congress in Brazil is in vacation, you know, it's a vacation so they will start to work on February. Since the end of this month of January, it means the vacation, we will have this federal intervention being applied because what Lula decree mentioned is the federal intervention, the deadline of the federal intervention will be the end of this month. So considering that all the process of investigation, penalize and all the process to investigate all of it is in the hands of the federal intervention. So as people's movements, we are looking forward for this kind of possibility to move forward investigation and in fact on February, once the Congress could start the legislative year, we can, we would like to see in the day one or the first being created a parliamentary commission of inquire. I don't know if I can say properly in English, but here in Brazil, we say, Comissão Parlamentargem querido, what is called CPI. So just that process of the MPs discuss and investigate all the process. As we saw during the pandemic that the Bolsonaro's government face at that kind of commission, we would like to see the same commission by members of parliament investigating and penalizing. It can also move forward and could mobilize the news, mobilize the outlets, mobilize the people with daily information, you know, considering this kind of investigation of these commissions. So it's a kind of TV show that daily we can see new information, new names, new people try to find to identify the responsible for that. So we are looking forward for this kind of investigation, of course, but until the end of the January, everything's in the hand on the federal intervention. It's not possible to have a member of parliament commission yet because they are vacation, we are facing that situation. So in February, we would like to mobilize this kind of energy to have this commission be installed instead. Thank you, Giovanni for answering that question. And we have a few more questions here which are very similar. Is defund the military an option in Brazil, does the military have independent sources of income. That's a possibility. It's a public budget. It's a ministry of defense, the things, and also military there's no independent or autonomous sources of funding. Everything's public budget. And in fact, during the Bolsonaro's government, we saw extreme rise of the budget of defense in Brazil, you know, instead for health education and so on. And now that's why I mentioned Lula has the military issue, not just considering this test that we are mentioned but also considering the money, because we need money for public health education, you know, the housing and so on. So also is, I think that Lula is facing to put in a lower level the budget of the military. I think that is also an issue we are struggling here in the US, where our budget is absolutely ridiculously high. And your budget is a half of our GDP. Think about that the half of our GDP. So imagine the uphill battle we have over here. And yes, of course the US is also funding militaries abroad including Brazil's and Columbia's and every other country. All right, thank you so much to everybody for staying with us. I have one more action item for everyone. So, you know, as most of us already know, Bolsonaro is still here in the United States enjoying his time in Florida, as his followers completely destroy in the democratic process of Brazil. So we understand the different sectors of Brazilian society have taken to the streets and are calling for full accountability for the coup perpetrators, and including the extradition of Bolsonaro back to the US which the United States is capable and has the right and the responsibility to do in order to collaborate with the investigation. So we just have one action item over here, calling on our supporters and everyone to to continue pressuring Biden to to listen to these calls and to cancel the visa of Bolsonaro so that he no longer has refuge here in the United States. So I'm going to put the link on the chat and please sign the petition, share it on your social media. And talk to your families and friends about it because it's it's really important issue and it's something that here in the United States we can be doing to be supporting the people Brazil under demands. Yes, and I just want to thank everyone for for for being here tonight and for our wonderful guest speakers who have done an amazing job at just giving us such good information about what's going on Brazil and what is the difference between the January 6 insurrection here in the the attack on democracy on on Brazil. So thank you all so much. This webinar has been recorded it will be uploaded to our YouTube and will be shared widely. Thank you so much, and I hope everyone has a good night. Thank you, Samantha for moderating and thank you and shall thanks guys for the invitation. Good night.