 Hey, what's up dudes and dudettes drew that anxiety guy calm back again with my friend Monique coven all the way from Canada with her wisdom and Kindness and smiley's oh Happy to be here again, this is our second take again technical difficulties ruin everything so today We have a good topic today. This is right up Monique's alley. We're gonna talk about thoughts and And how maybe not to be dragged around by them the fact that you do not have to follow every single thought that comes in your head So since this is kind of a wreck and I think you have more to add to it than I do Let's I'm gonna let you start tell me about what the issue is with thinking. Why is it a problem sometimes? Essentially, I mean this was Revolutionary I mean, I thought I understood about thinking. Mm-hmm. I know not Because as I started to really understand our design the way we're created the way we work psychologically I Started to see that as human beings. We feel our thinking Physically, you know somatically So when we have a thought whether it's true or not whether it's, you know Something happy something sad a traumatic thought Whatever it is. We're gonna experiencing it. We're going to experience it somatically. We're gonna feel our thinking. Sure When I started to recognize that we're living in the feeling of our thinking moment to moment and therefore a lot of our thinking Feels real because we have the physical sensation or respond our bodies responding to our thoughts We get the physical sensations of it So even if it's a thought that's not true because we feel it We make stories about it and we conclude that it's real and that is a really big problem for us in that It's like it's hidden as we have eyes We see what's going on, but we don't really see what's invisible, which is our thinking And so I think that it's the fact that I didn't get all the things off my to-to list That's make anxious or it's because I've been on the couch too long That's making me anxious and I didn't get enough stuff done or you know, or whatever it is And I would blame out there and I didn't understand that really there's this there's this whole Invisible experience that we don't see that's creating a lot of our Feelings and it becomes our experience of life Sure that makes perfect sense actually it really does And so we we're kind of conditioned to a certain extent to to honor our thoughts and our feelings And you hear this so much, you know, especially in sort of the self-help mental health space Especially i'll just say it these days when everybody that can breathe can become an expert and put up a channel and start talking about this stuff We hear that stuff all the time check in with yourself honor yourself on and and i'm with you know We have to love ourselves and and all those things But it's almost counterintuitive like you do not have to honor every single thought you have like it's not required In fact, you know, we were talking about it in our first take on this If you look at some of the great philosophies and a lot of the stuff that you hear online is based in in Taoism Buddhism and those sort of things and all the memes and the Lakes with the calm lakes and all that stuff Is based on those those things that say your thoughts are not you or It's really your thoughts and your reaction to the world that matters. It's not the actual world So and I think it's so hard for people to grasp that sometimes that it's not the fact that you your wrist hurts It's the fact that you Feel that and then think I must have a life-threatening blood clot Exactly and it's really like I call it. It's like this huge illusion That we are under because we don't see we just we're physical people We see what's in front of us. We don't see, you know, what's what's underneath? Yeah, that for me has been revolutionary because I never knew I was feeling my moment That was that was mind-blowing when I started to write into that I thought I was feeling the world and when you're feeling the world Oh my god, I feel like a helpless victim because we all know we can't control, you know, what's gonna come next What's gonna happen? correct It's nice to know there's there's one place to look and that's that's within us in our mind What's happening inside us? Yeah, and I think that's why people who get themselves into agoraphobic situations Or they start to severely limit their lifestyle to only be in their safe or comfortable places or situations They there's that lack of understanding that says but you don't understand the problem You're bringing the problem with you everywhere So the problem exists on your sofa in your bedroom and your living room at your favorite farm or wherever you think is Safe those thoughts are still with you So Yeah, it almost has meant the place the situation doesn't matter. It never matters. Yeah I heard something somewhere podcast or something they were talking about I don't know millionaires who win lotteries and It shows that like five years later. They're in the same place And why is that? Well, that's because the thinking is still going on that hasn't changed. I'm going to introduce to you I'm not going to take the credit for it. I'm going to give the credit to where it deserves Which I saw this I learned this from dr. Amy johnson, but it's something that's been really helpful when I work with my clients And we have this chatty. Can you see it? Yeah, I can see it. Yeah This is this is our chatty narrative self That's the part that is talking and that is saying, you know, be careful. You better do this. You better do that Hurry up, you know, all this kind of stuff And it's going on on stop and a lot of that is conditioned. It's I call it. It's a computer brain chatting chatting but we take that as True as real What has really helped me was to start to see that that Is just my conditioned Experiences and and and that, you know, I don't have to listen and take what it's saying so seriously I don't because actually think about it if you If you Would be the way that this voice is To your friends, right Friends like they would ignore they would ignore me and run away. Yeah, you would have friends if they do that And yeah, you know, this is going on all the time and a lot of times we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're agreeing with Yeah, and what I've done is I know it's there blah blah blah blah But I started to see that I don't have to take my thoughts so seriously I don't and that's been really helpful knowing that there's that and then there's me Yeah And I think it's so far into people when I say things like you are not required to respond to every thought you have And so many people find that to be like a crazy thing to say. What do you mean? I don't have to But it's my thought I thought it like I feel it. How do I not reason why how can I how what are you telling me? But in a way just like you said if I was doing that to you, you'd probably hang up the call You wouldn't want to listen to that And and why is it so easy for us to look at other people who are just Expressing what's in their own heads and say He doesn't know what he's talking about. She's a liar. She's fake. He's he's making stuff up fake news Everyone else can make up fake things that aren't true, but everything our brains make up is dead on true all the time like In a way when you look at it that way, like, you know, your brain produces a hell of a lot of fake news Totally and and again, you know If you think about it a lot of it is because it's been conditioned over and over again, you know And we just we don't really question it. It's just there and we think it's us because it's talking in our voice And I started to just sense that oh, no, that's not me I would never want to talk to myself that way and just kind of seeing that So I think and it's good It's sometimes just you're right being aware of it And I find that people when they finally grasp the concept of oh, wait a minute is my thoughts that are fueling this It's not so and then they get for at least my audience winds up in that cycle Where there might be a sensation and then the thoughts lead to more sensations Which leads to more thoughts of her and it feeds right so that that's kind of horrible And when they start to understand that like oh, I can I can have a thought Like you don't try and stop them. You can't ever stop them and there's a ton of research this thought suppression does not work Um, in fact, somebody who just was a kim quinland I remember he was posting a lot about that on instagram the other day, but anyway, um, you're gonna have the thoughts It's okay to have the thought the problem is what happens after that thought comes initially So that thought that says I didn't get anything done today. I'm screwed like for instance or the thought that says What was that was that a skipped heartbeat? Am I dying either way to the same thought right? So you have it what comes next? What's the difference? You know, what's the difference between letting that thought run away with you and not so what did you change? Well, you know, that's really interesting because as soon as I started to get on to this as I was recovering Related to to anxiety thoughts Yes, the flashbacks and symptoms. Yeah as I started to realize. Okay. We'll use anxiety as an example I would start to see myself, you know, this guy Oh, you know, that's gonna happen or this or that don't do that and I was on to it I was on to it And what I did was instead of really engaging with it I knew that if I would engage with it and go with it. I knew exactly what would happen Right the more anxious And I also knew that if I would start to want to do something with it because like you said, we don't change our thoughts I agree. I don't go there But if a lot of people do a lot of people think they have to do something. Oh, I'm having an anxious thought Okay. Well, I'm happy now or I'm gonna make a positive or right That's not helpful either. No keeps it keeps it going. Yes Ah Some of the most heat that I've ever gotten was I did a video last year sometime called positive self-talk is bullshit And I got yeah, I got a little bit of heat on that because people are like, what do you mean? I don't this is self affirmations. I have to tell myself. I'm okay. I have to talk myself down I have to calm myself down. No, you don't like you don't have to calm yourself down Like and you will calm down if you decide just to say, oh, I just had a thought that maybe I'm having a stroke And really all that's happening right now is I'm thinking so the only accurate description of what's happening right now is all I'm thinking Done story is over. You don't have to engage and try and do what you said. We're gonna change it I'm gonna make it positive. I'm gonna visualize Because you never win It does Yeah Chattertooth guy always wins. Yeah, he never he never runs out of energy to do that Right So you asked me and so that is what happened with me and as I started to understand that I know what's going to happen If I go with that and I don't want to feel that Started doing it less and less and you know, it we've been doing this forever So it's not going to change instantly, but it does start with awareness watch See that it's happening and you know see that if you're not engaged with it Yeah, and I think some of it, you know to put it back more into your arena I mean I could relate it to people who will experience what they will continually argue Are impossible to ignore thoughts because this thought is so scary That you can't your what you're telling me doesn't apply because this thought is really scary Oh, your thoughts are scary, but this one's really scary And I think you might you know, that same might apply to you know Kind of those flashbacks to these experiences that people have had in their past Like how like I can't possibly but but what what I get is oh, yeah, that makes all kinds of sense But what happens when I think this what am I supposed to do with that? And the answer is always the same right you you keep doing the same thing I saw I don't know if that makes sense. So do you treat For instance in that ptsd or trauma background The the stress or anxiety over not finishing to do list And the stressing or anxiety over thinking about something terrible that happened to you literally happened to you 15 years ago same thing no like In a in a way, do you get it? You're gonna not react to that the same way. Am I correct? Like even yeah, right? So it doesn't matter what what you're thinking what you can be thinking the very worst thing or have the worst memory It's still the same scenario Yeah, when you start to have insight of what's really going on Because I mean before I knew all this I used to tell myself. Oh, I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm safe and it's nothing Yeah, I didn't feel safe But when I started to understand that oh You know, this is completely normal. I am having a Thought right and or a memory. It's coming to life. Therefore. I'm going to feel it, but It's designed to move through me I don't have to get in there and say okay, so I got to figure out What am I going to do with this? What I have to twist it and make it It's just we'll feel it and it wants to move through and it always does I mean, we've had so many thoughts during the day that we don't even remember why because they move through Correct, but when it's a it's a Thought that's a little bit more challenging whether it's an anxious thought that we're scared of all I got to drive here That's gonna happen or you know a symptom and we want to do something with it We you know, suddenly we keep it stuck and yeah Blow through because yeah, we have to do something with it. One of the greatest things I ever heard Was the first introduction that ever had to you we we sort of somehow connected on I don't remember how that happened And you sent me a video and said watch this interview that I did with I can't remember the woman's name it was a video interview adult this person and you I was I was out for a walk up with my dog and I was listening in the headphones and you said I you spent years and years and years thinking about Well, I'd have this thought and then I would have to think well I have to get to my therapist and process it I must I have to process this like many years of like I gotta do something I gotta process this now until you discover like no, I don't like You know and this is not to say that the past or your thoughts simply don't matter they do But they don't require All your attention and all your energy All the time I just want to say and I have to be careful because Really important to me and that is that people who have had trauma significant trauma. Yes Child which repeated trauma. Yes. There is you know, I don't just go into oh, it's your thoughts and oh, no We start with being a compassionate witness What happened was really horrible. Yeah And you don't have to become a prisoner to you know, it coming all the time. That's what happened They would come and they would come and then I would engage with them and run to this therapist to run to that But when I started to understand really the mechanism What's going on? I just felt a lot safer. Yeah, I would agree with you 100% I I I'm with you on that. You're right. You can't just say oh, it's just your thoughts forget it move on That's not that's not okay Yeah, but I think people tend maybe to get stuck and I got maybe out of my lane a little bit here But people seem to sometimes get stuck thinking That trauma or those past events is them like that is them like I must There's some requirement to carry it cloak myself in it engage with it process it suffer it Somehow that's required So there's a happy medium between processing it and understanding and gaining perspective or peace or closure And and cloaking yourself in it. I'm gonna say Yeah, and also something you said I was thinking about it actually and that is that you know You could use the example of our thoughts, you know people saying oh, you are not your thoughts So I thought about um, you know people for example would say I have PTSD or I have anxiety and how they would Say that is because this is their experience of life. I PTSD and when someone said hi, how are you in my head? I wanted to say fine PTSD How are you? You know kind of thing because that's what it felt like, right? Okay. Yeah, but but but Here's this thing that really showed me that PTSD is not me How do I know it's not me and my identity? Because now that i'm on the other side and I don't have the symptoms So who am I now? Right, right Who am I now therefore I was never PTSD and even people who are experiencing symptoms of PTSD or anxiety That is not who you are. Yeah Thoughts behaviors beliefs that are showing up. It's your psychology But it's up here. It's not you and it can move through Experiences move through us But they're not us. It's a very important thing to know I think you're right And so finding that balance between having to deal with maybe this past trauma or deal with whatever thoughts are producing your anxiety You have to do it at some point, but you you don't have to be dragged around while it happens I think and it doesn't have to become a lifelong thing You know and it and it brings up it's a little bit on the topic that we're talking about now We could do another one about this I think but like you said well now you're on the other side So you're beyond it now It's still a part of you and part of your past that you probably honor and in some ways respect because it makes you the monique I know today to a certain extent but I think I know people with the anxiety disorder problems as they begin to recover and get out of it They find themselves in this foreign place Like um now what what am I now? What do I do now? What do I want to do? I mean I'm not dealing with this all the time Now life becomes a blank slate and that could sometimes be Disturbing to people right or intimidating Yes, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because what you're doing is You're uncovering Who you really are. Yeah, and in a way it's fantastic because you get to decide, you know, what do I like? What am I interested in? Yeah, I want to do It's very exciting. It is very exciting and it's it's an Yeah, it's also to some people. I think stressful possibly even anxiety producing. It's it's a little bit terrifying Like what do I do now now that I don't have to recover anymore now? What do I do? Yeah, yeah, I I've heard people say Um that I work with that. It's not a lot of quite a lot quieter in here Very scary because they're used to so much noise and suddenly it's quieter And that like you said it can be kind of like uncomfortable like yeah, you know and I said Yeah, imagine that I know it's amazing, right? So I think you know to bring it back and that thing that says okay, you can learn and and I say this all the time Like just because you have you can learn how not to be dragged around by your thoughts These are skills that you can learn be taught and practice So it has nothing to do with just brute forcing them Stuffing them blocking them out wrestling them into positive things. These are actual skills I mean so I talk about meditation and focus skills and mindfulness skills I'm guessing you may Use the same sort of tools. I don't know. I don't you don't okay I don't any tools big big revelation because what I find is that as I am sharing with my clients They start to naturally fall into this kind of not a state of meditation, but just a lot more space They get introduced to peace more easily, you know, because when this quiet's down What's left? That's so interesting. I would like to think that I'm reasonably sure that my people Probably have the same experience, but what I get asked continuously Okay, I understand everything you're saying, but how do I do that? How do I not follow my thoughts? I know The how do I do that and to me, you know saying well, look you can learn focus techniques You can learn meditation techniques breathing relaxation. These are not shields or cures But they can at least help you change the way You let your brain operate to a certain extent But I do I do think that just accepting this to be true Is is maybe 40 to 50 percent of the battle. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so So good. What else do we want to talk about? I wanted to show you my now I should we share this like in one of our One of our first uh taping. I want to yes The snow globe again. Yes, maybe for those who have never seen it Remember when I first saw it just it was a good illustration of how it works with with our thoughts So I like to call it a thought storm So a stop a thought storm is when we've got so much on our mind You know, like 15 things on our mind floating around and of course when that's happening We're feeling it and oftentimes we think we need to do something with it So we'll get in there and say, okay. Well, I'll grab my list and all you know, whatever it is We're trying to manage all those things that are in the thought storm, right? And What happens naturally without And getting involved is that when we don't Get involved Try to get in there, which I feel keeps it going keeps it going. It naturally wants to Move through or calm down or settle down. It always does right is an example So this is a snow globe. It's my daughter that says yay Yeah, yeah And so okay, so this is gonna be an example of a thought storm. So I'm gonna shake it up Right, let me shake it up and you see these are our thoughts a thought storm What happens when you leave it alone? Can you see that? Yeah, sure. I can see it. Yeah, so they naturally settle down And that's what happens when we don't get in there when yeah, but I know that naturally We'll just settle down That's true and the shaking Is the is the engaging Right, so when you're engaging and arguing and I gotta think about this. I have to carry this with me at the Yeah, I've heard people say things like, you know schedule time to do it. That's a technique I've heard people say, you know, I give you 10 from 6 p.m. To 6 20 p.m. Tonight This is when I will sit and and worry about my stuff. I don't know what I think about that I don't know either. Yeah, I don't know either. Did I ever tell you that story? No Oh my gosh in my Search for help there was this something on I think it was Facebook or whatever And it said that if you do this particular activity, which was a I think it was a personal inventory Yeah, you will be healed of your anxiety and your it worked. Yeah Oh, so I'm in for it. Yeah Was every single day you had to wake up in the morning and first thing on your mind You write down every single fear you have. Well, I did that Every single fear did it day one did it day two by day three. I was so bloody anxious Yeah, I wrote this person and I said I'm feeling so anxious. He said stop doing it So that was a really good lesson in that what I how I see it now is that I was basically writing out all my fear putting them on Then they were Within me floating through my mind. They were coming to life. Yeah Not necessary Well, you went that active because it's so funny write down your fears whether you're writing them type into whatever When we want to learn new things we're studying for an exam We people will always say write it down write note cards Because it is literally the best way we have to build those neural pathways So you are literally studying your fear by doing that like it's the best learning we have That's crazy in a way when you think about that. I was building new pathways. Thank you very much Along those lines. It's so interesting. I was unaware that I've been like practicing stoic for years without even being blissfully unaware of the philosophy But one of the things that that's stoicism teaches you is a practice call It's it's in latin premeditatio malorum and it's it's the premeditation of of fears or the worst case So like Marcus Aurelius and those people would sit down every day in some way and think Today, I'm going to encounter people that piss me off or in the modern world today I will encounter mean people or ignorant people or today, you know, I may have money problems or or there will be traffic I will have to wait online at the bank You basically prepare yourself for the things that you that are going to happen today That you know, you can't control and there's a beauty in it But there's also the danger of that so I had people say like that thing where I'm supposed to Confront my fears in my head for some people it works out. Well for some people not so much Yeah, and you're a living proof of like, yeah, maybe maybe not maybe don't do that Yeah, yeah, I mean I find now that I understand that our thinking comes to life Yes, I'm going to be thinking about my greatest fears. Well, I'm going to be feeling my greatest fears. No, thanks Yeah, what why right exactly especially if they've proven to be irrational and baseless to a certain extent I get that so I think probably that practice I mean, it's supposed to let you understand that they're irrational and baseless, but I don't know. Anyway, um, all right, we've gone for like 25 minutes here. That's that's a bit of a while so anything else to add or Well, the only thing I can say is I just want to repeat that we are always living in the feeling of our thinking moment to moment And that you are you really are safe that what you're experiencing Your you know is normal and with understanding and gentleness and self-compassion Okay, you are okay Yeah, I will I guess cap it off by saying in the most simplest terms. This is my way You do not have to honor every freaking thought you have every moment of the day It is perfectly okay to think something terribly scary disturbing and then turn away from it And think something else or nothing Like those are all acceptable things and I think the sooner we accept that to be More of a natural reality for a healthy human being probably the better off it's gonna be Because when it's very good what you're saying because when you turn away from it Another thought pops in your mind. You're gonna have a completely different experience. Exactly. That's exactly right And maybe that thought is one you want to turn away from too. There's also nothing wrong with repeating that process People they keep coming. Okay. So do that 10,000 times in the next hour if you must You will learn the skill and it will become easier and easier and easier and easier. So That's I think all I can add like this is so doable. It's so doable even though it sounds crazy to a lot of people So Anyway, all right. Awesome. Well, thanks for taking the time as always more time than people even know because of our little technical snafus And uh, let's let's mention this. So maybe when we hang up we're talking about instagram for a second People should yeah, so monika's you have a great instagram account. I love your instagram account So where do people find you? I will link it anyway. Oh, okay. Uh, it's um, so it's called cptsd.cover.coach Yes, and it's a great great great feed and there's all kinds of gems in there. So We I you know my instagram account is that underscore anxiety underscore guy I had to put the underscores and go figure. So we aren't talking about doing some instagram live video too, right? So if you guys are watching I will link us both there and all of your I'll put all your links in your instagram your website your facebook also and That's the podcast. You have a great podcast. Yes. Um But if you start at monika and coaching correct, that's has pretty much everything in it. That's where you are Yeah, that's right. Very cool. But uh, yeah, so maybe we'll do a little instagram as soon as we hang up here We'll try that little experiment. So look for us there fun. Yeah, very good. All right. I guess we'll see you guys next time Thank you monique. Bye. Thank you. Bye. See you less awkward moment, but still awkward ready. Here we go