 Good morning, and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Christa Porter, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the Commission's weekly webinar series where we cover a variety of topics that may be of interest to libraries. We broadcast the show live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. Central Time, but if you're unable to join us on Wednesdays, that's fine. We do record the show as we are doing today, and then the recording is posted on our website for you to watch at your convenience, and I will show you at the end of today's show where you can access all of our archives. Both the live show and the recordings are free and open to anyone to watch, so please do share with your friends, family, neighbors, colleagues, anyone you think might be interested in any of the topics we have on Encompass Live. For those of you not from Nebraska, the Nebraska Library Commission is the state agency for libraries. This would be similar to your library's whatever state library. So we provide services and training and resources to all types of libraries in the state, so you will find topics on our show for all types of libraries. Public, K-12, academics, corrections, museums, archives, anything and everything. Really the only criteria for our show is that it's something that libraries are doing or something. So we bring on people from libraries or resources and services we think may be of use to libraries. We do book reviews, interviews, many training sessions, demos of services and products. It just runs the gamut. We sometimes have Nebraska Library Commission staff that come on and do presentations for us on services and things that we're offering here through the Commission, but we also have, I'm just moving my screen around here, have guest speakers that we have come in and we have that today with us. We have on the screen here you can see is Dr. Jody Green. Good morning, Jody. She's from our Nebraska Extension offices here in the state of Nebraska and also on with us we're having webcam difficulties, but we're having screen and audio is fine, so that's all right. From our Lincoln City Libraries right here in Lincoln, Nebraska is Leanne Sargent and at Jen Jackson. Good morning, Leanne and Jen. Their interface thinks it's doing the webcam, but we're not seeing it. That's okay. We've got their slides. So and today we are going to talk about bed bugs in the library. But it's not your, it's okay. We'll tell you all about it, how it all happened, what it's all about, and what you can do to deal with that. So I'll hand over, I think, to you, Leanne and Jen, you guys are starting. Alrighty. Thank you for having us. Sorry about the webcam, which is still thinking apparently. Just to kind of go over what we're going to talk about today. Yes, we are talking about bed bugs. Those fantastic pests that are always a potential issue. So to start with, we'll have Jody talk about the biology of the bed bugs, and then we'll talk about the challenges libraries have to think of when it comes to bed bugs, policies and procedures that we've come up with here, staff training, and then we do have some pictures for those that are faint at heart, beware. There are pictures of like evidence of bed bugs and stuff to show what people, show people what to look for. So we're going to actually hand it over to Jody to let her tell us everything about the bed bug itself. All right. Okay, Jody. Okay, so Jody, you need to get your screen up then. Yeah. All right. Hold on a sec. There you go. You should see the pop up now for you. Yep. Are you seeing it? Yep. Yep. And I'll also let everyone know before we jump into this, so we will have these presentations available for everybody afterwards with the recording of the show as well. And I even have an email here from Liam this morning, templates for their letters and things. And so other documentation they're going to be talking about, we'll have access for all of that afterwards with recording. So go ahead, Jody, take it away. Okay, well, good morning, everyone. To those of you who are joining us today. So I am an urban entomologist and I am located in Douglas and Sarpy County. And I'm just doing the portion on the bed bug biology, but bed bugs are something I talk about every day, probably. So it's not uncommon. And I love the library. And I love all of the training that gets done because everyone knows what they're doing. So I think people should continue to go to the library. But so about bed bugs, let's see if I can. Bed bugs are insects. And they are, we call them true bugs because everyone calls the creepy crawlies bugs, but not all insects are actually in the order that are bugs. So the order is called hemiptera. And they are all separated from other bugs or insects because they have a piercing and sucking mouth part. So these may look familiar, some of them, some of them are really pretty, we may not see them like this. But these are all types of bugs related to bed bugs. And so that thing in common is that piercing, sucking mouth part that a lot of them will hold under their bodies. And so you don't see it. But it's like a beak. Entomologists call it a rostrum. And what it's used is for sucking on liquids. And so for most of these, it's going to be plants, they're sucking plant sap. But for bed bugs, unfortunately, their liquid of choice is going to be human blood. So bed bugs. This is what they look like. It's a it's a it's a close up of what an adult bed bug looks like. So they're a reddish brown oval shaped at the first they're about a quarter of an inch long. So these are adults. They are flattened. So from the top down so kind of flat like a pancake, we say they do not have wings, which is very important identifying character. So if anything is flying, not a bed bug. And again, they have that piercing, sucking mouth part. So if you can see this one here, that rostrum or beak is held under on the underside of its body. So it's important to identify the bug because there are other insects that resemble bed bugs. And the closest relative that we know is the eastern bat bug. And if you're in places like Lincoln or Omaha, we have a lot of bat population. And they also live in urban areas in our homes and our churches, addicts type things like that. And so the bat bug here on the right, you can see has longer hairs and it's not just the hairs everywhere, but it's the hairs on this is the part we call the pronotum. So this is the bed bug. It's a human bed bug. They have shorter hairs in relation to the eye. And you can see this bat bug has very long hairs. And so if people bring me a bug, as long as it's got a head, and at least one hair, I can identify it. But it's very important because when it comes to treating for a bed bug or bat bug, very different. They behave different. They, the treatment's going to be different. And most people are thanking me when it's identified as a bat bug. So we always want to make sure. So identification is the key. So it's very difficult, though, because bed bugs will look different based on their feeding status. As you can see here, a hungry bed bug versus a full bed bug, the sizes, their shapes, and their age. So you can see here almost when they're hungry. Yeah, they're pretty transparent. You can see their gut or that digested blood in there. So I mean, it's pretty, I don't know, some all my things make people itch and crawl. So I'm used to that. But you can see how flat they are. And that's why they can hide so easily, you know, cracks and crevices, and they go unnoticed. But yeah, they're very, they're transparent, but even younger, they're even lighter. But when they're fed, and that's how we can tell they've been fully fed. At any age, they becoming gorge, they become elongated. And the deep, dark red, but you can see this is these are each adult bed bugs, but one is hungry and one is fed. So they can look very different. And then add in the different life cycles, or the life stages, you can see that they appear a little bit different. So it's no wonder that people can get confused. But they are all you can see them with the naked eye. So that's important to know sometimes people are thinking they're invisible, but they're not. You just have to know what to look for. So bed bugs develop through incomplete metamorphosis. So they go from one life stage to the next, but they don't go through a dormant or pupil stage like butterflies or moths or beetles. It's going to be these younger ones are nymphs, and they resemble the adult, but they're not able to lay eggs or mate. So the danger with that is that each one of these life stages can feed on blood, and they all are going to be more or less in the same habitat, even all together in a Harbridge area. So this is their life cycle, they go through five developmental stages before they get to adult. So we call those as entomologists instars. So they go through five instars before becoming an adult. Each instar requires a blood meal, usually from a human to get to that to be able to mold and shed their exoskeletons. So minimally they'll need, you know, five blood meals to get to adults. So and you can see the differences between what they look like. I do want to talk a little bit about mating, because if you know anything about bed bugs and the drama with them, they mate through traumatic insemination and the reason why it's called that is because this male, his intermittent organ is this dangerous looking creepy thing. But he stabs her directly in the body cavity and exactly it's the sperm in there. And she's able to store that to lay eggs. And she's actually evolved this ectospermology in her body to be able to withstand that and the bacteria that may be introduced there. So we can tell the difference between the sexes of the bed bugs based on the shape of the end of their abdomen. The reason why this is important is because if you find one bed bug and it's an adult male, you know, that's pretty good. If you found an adult female, that's maybe not so good. So it's one of those things that may put people a little more ease. And also like if you're finding a female bed bugs, that's likely mated, you're going to be looking for eggs, you're going to be looking for nymphs. So it kind of can help with clues. And to see why they are so successful in the fact that they can continue on without us knowing that they're there. So females require blood males to be able to lay eggs. But after they do that initial mating, they can lay eggs for up to 50 days after mating. So that's how that works. But but they do require that blood meal. So if you kept a bed bug in a container, it can lay eggs for 10 days. And but it does need that blood meal. So this this is what they look like. They're very small people seldom find eggs. And this one I actually lost in a container and it was stuck to the penny, because I always use a penny for scale. But they're going to be found laid and stuck to surfaces, furniture, upholstery, this is just a little seam or fold in a recliner. After each blood meal, they need to molt. Insects have exoskeletons in order to grow. And so these are just like empty shells. Sometimes they resemble, you know, like popcorn kernel or something like that. But it's important to know because if you find these in the books or in your home or anywhere, that this means that there was likely that there was a bed bug there that had fed and molted to the next stage. This illustration or this image here shows the two former exoskeletons of this nymph. And then these are exoskeletons found in a harbourage of, you know, bedbugs of similar ages. They feed on blood of humans, and so they excrete digested blood. So the fecal stains that stains, you know, fabric, books, any type of material are going to look like dark ink stains. So depending on the surface, it will look different. But this is what it looks like when it's wet. This is what it looks like absorbed into like a paper. It's kind of got a shiny raised surface. If you look at it, this is a bed bug that's on filter paper, and you can see there's dark spots, there's a little lighter spots. But it's a this one's a full bed bug, and you can see that it's going to excrete that. So you see these signs that is one of those signs that you may have bed bugs that have been there, or still there. The rate and growth of development really depends on the environmental conditions. So that it's not too hot, not too cold, and that there's a steady food source. And this is why infestations normally do not occur in places where people don't sleep regularly, it's going to be those, you know, hotel rooms, college dorm rooms, cabins, where people are going to be, they feed on people. So in optimal conditions, what unfortunately is the optimal conditions for our living to you know, 70 and 90 degrees, they can complete their life cycle from egg to adult in as little as five to six weeks. Their typical lifespan is six months to a year. And you know, so three to four generations per year. But even if there's this that one female, she can you know, end up laying eggs, that those eggs can develop and she can mate with those male offspring. So that's how infestations can occur. So bed bugs locate their hosts by sensing the carbon dioxide that we breathe out. And then when they get closer, they can locate us through our body heat feeding. So they don't live on the body, they live off the body. But when they feed, it's about five to 15 minutes that it can take for them to get a blood meal. And in that time, as you can see in this video of my arm, they can become engorged and be you know, three times their body weight in blood. This little nimp here didn't even get step off the filter paper, he just stuck his mouth part over top and started feeding. And you can see that I mean, I think this was maybe eight minutes, it was pretty quick. So you can't feel that I honestly could not feel that happening. So this is why when this occurs, we do not even know what we've been bitten by, we may wake up, you know, with, with symptoms may not. This is the bed bug before it fed. And this is that same bed bug after it fed. The things entomologists do for for images for presentations, right? Yeah, wow. Thank you, brave. I only got that one time. This was this bed bug was actually called the chosen one. So adult bed bugs, they don't have to feed every day. So that same bed bug only needs to feed every three to five days in order to get the meal that it needs and to molt or to lay eggs if it's a female, a female adult. What they do is they inject these compounds to aid in blood feeding so that we can't feel them and so that we don't clot. And so some people are allergic to that. And you'll see that I am and some people aren't. And this is the danger of, of not being allergic and then not having any symptoms and then having, you know, when people say, how did you not know you had bed bugs? If you have no reaction and they're such good hiders, it is very difficult to locate that you may have a problem. For me, I'm like a sentinel. I swell up. I'm allergic. You can see that I've, and this is being in staying in hotel rooms, but 30% of the population is thought to have no reaction to bed bugs. So it's only some people are reactive. If you're allergic to other types of things, like other types of biting things, is it, would that be related to being more? Some people are, yeah, they have sensitive skin and they have, they are allergic to the compounds of like mosquito saliva. So I'm very allergic to those things. And you can see this is, this is what happens. This is when I fed that bed bug. So I swell up immediately. Some people have a delayed reaction. So it could be up to a week later. And other people have no reactions at all. I get couples in here that have like my wife has bed bugs. And I'm like, well, do you sleep in the same bed? Yes, well, you have bed bugs too. You're just not allergic. So that happened. So I just want to point that out because it's important to know to do those inspections and identify, you're not always going to feel it and you're not always going to see, you know, symptoms. But after a bed bug feeds, it returns to its harbourage or worth hiding. And this is going to be normally close to the host. They are going to rest and they're going to digest. So that's why when you've been bitten or you think you've been bitten and you go to look for a bed bug, they're not going to be wandering around. They're going to be hiding somewhere. So close to the bed, they're called bed bugs, but they're not necessarily found on the bed. You know, mattress seems like this is like the tag. Any kind of like folder, you know, hidden places. This is a corner guard. This is a dust cover. All of those places can provide a harbourage for a small little insect. And then, you know, the bed frame, anything that's covered, you know, there's not a lot of places they can't hide because they are so small. But I do want to talk about the difference between an introduction and an infestation. So an introduction is when a bed bug is dropped from a person that may spend time somewhere that has an infestation or lives in a, you know, an apartment, a home that's infested. So they've dropped a bed bug. And so you may just find one that's just there. And this was, I think, a food pantry, a bed bug. So that would have been an introduction. It's not worth, you know, like using pesticide or doing something crazy in that specific environment. It's take that bed bug out, do an inspection, let's vacuum the room. As opposed to an infestation where it's where people are going to sleep nearly every single night regularly, or at least every three to five days, like in a hotel, that's where there's going to be eggs, there's going to be exoskeleton, and there's going to be bed bugs of all life stages. And that's going to be where that infestation is. So if you can tell the difference between that. And unfortunately, this is actually a backpack. So this could be a walking infestation, but this person put their backpack right beside their bed every night. And that's where they sleep. So they had that blood meal to, to continue its life cycle and generations. So bed bugs get around to places, you know, since they don't fly or jump, they get around because we carry them around. We basically let them hitchhike on our things. And this includes luggage. It includes used furniture. Sometimes we pick things up. I mean, I know in college, I picked up all my stuff used, you know, and these things are things we need to think about. And then the reason the library comes in is because if you're like me, sometimes we have books by our bedside table for quite a while. That becomes part of our host sleeping area. And if there is, you know, a bed bug infestation, bed bugs will likely, they can get into the books. And then they become a library issue when people drop them off. So that's my segment. And if anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to answer those. Sure. Thanks, Jodi. Yeah. Anybody have any questions you want to ask about any of the life cycle of a bed bug? Go ahead and type into the question section of the go to webinar interface. I can grab them from there and can. Nobody asked anything while you were talking. So that's good. Give a couple of seconds here. Oh, just very interesting. Get lots of good information there on, you know, I think it's good to see what it looks like in real life because I'm sure a lot of people don't know. They hear the bed bug and they get the fear. Hear the word bug and they get the fear of what they don't know. Well, what am I looking for? And having those pictures definitely is going to help people figure this out. All right. So we're going to switch back to you now, Leanne. Awesome. All right. Did you want to make you present her again? So you should be able to slowly do your slides. All right. Thank you very much, Jody, for joining us and helping us to understand the cycles of bed bugs and making us itch. Yeah. Yes, I am itching. It's probably good the camera is not on because I'm just like when it comes to the bed bugs in the library. We noticed an increase in infestations about a decade ago. We took the first book that we found any evidence on to the extension office for the bed bug identification. The extension office has been very helpful all along, willing to look at items that we aren't sure about, et cetera, et cetera, helping us to figure out our policies and whatnot as well. But because there is more evidence of bed bug bed bugs potentially in the library, we decided that we needed a bed bug committee. So that was formed here at Ben and Martin Public Library. Some things that the committee had to consider things like policy considerations, how to train and determine best practices for staff, how to go about treating materials because there's a variety of ways to do that, as we'll show in a bit, determining the procedures that we use for workflows when items do come in with evidence and notifying customers and then providing information to the public so that it doesn't become a scary thing to them. We do recommend, like I said, turning to the professionals at the extension office for help when needed. But the bottom line is that excuse me, the preventative maintenance and early detection helped prevent infestations. OK, policy considerations that we have dealt with here when it comes to dealing with customers and bed bug damage items. Questions you'll probably have to ask are, do we discard or treat the materials? When we first process the materials, if we. Found any evidence of bed bugs we would pull it plus anything around it in the proximity that could be infested. Then we review them. If they do have obvious bed bug signs, then we likely will discard the item. It's something we aren't going to add back to the collection. We do have a freezer that works really well, like a big chest freezer. I think they're called two body freezers. The big very descriptive there, yes. That's the true crime. Basically, we have a big freezer and the freezer works really well. You just have to make sure it freezes to zero degrees. And when it comes to freezing items, you do have to leave them in the freezer minimum of four days. We also do have a what we call a bakery. Essentially a heater that we can turn on and put things in and that we leave those in there for approximately eight hours. So we'll plug it in in the morning when we have items that need to be treated and then we'll unplug at the end of the day. Things also to consider with that would be books can be used in the in the bakery, but you wouldn't want to put like DVDs, cases, stuff like that that could potentially melt. When it comes to contacting a customer, we send a letter to the customer seasoning based on which occurrence it is here at Lincoln City Libraries. We have a first, second and third occurrence letters. The first one basically just says there's been evidence and so we need you to if you have other items, we ask that they return them in Ziploc bags and bring them to the desk instead of putting them in book drop. The second basically tells of the you can't check out anymore. You need to get it dealt with. The third is an actually a certified letter that will be delivered that the director of the library signs. These have all been approved by the director in the legal department. It is, like I said, important to tell the customer how to return the materials, because if they do have bed bugs, it's entirely possible that they'll be in more than one piece of library property if they have it. So you do want them to seal it and bring it to the desk instead of putting it in the bin where it could potentially infest other items. When it comes to dealing with repeat customers, some things to think about. Do we would you want to ban the person from the library? Their personal belongings, such as backpacks, book bags. Here we require if somebody has made it to the third third letter, which means they've been banned. We do require proof of treatment for them to be able to return to the library and to check out any more items. So far. When we assess the damage of an item, we will put the item charge on the customer's account. Generally, that has been enough to initially at least prevent people from checking out more items because they can't check out with the client on the card. But if it's a repeat issue than we do, we have turned to banning in a few instances. Mostly it ends up getting taken care of prior to that. I do have a question about policy that just came up. I think it's a very good question. You guys, you had started seeing instances of this happening. The question is, how do you get your board to admit that you have to make a policy on bedbugs? I suppose the situation being it hasn't come up yet, but we should be prepared. How do you convince them that? I was going to say, I think just having like evidence. So if you do start finding items that have evidence, I mean, you can take those straight to the board. First, after they've been treated because the evidence isn't going to disappear after the treatment that just won't spread. And then data like what Jody has given us today. I think all of that helps. Especially knowing that the library isn't necessarily the starting place of the potential infestations. But I mean, really, bedbugs can be anywhere. But because of the nature of libraries, it could potentially become a place where it spreads, if something's brought in and not seen, like the bedbugs evidence isn't seen, and then it goes to check out again. I mean, we're just potentially spreading that there. But, yeah, I think the biggest thing would be evidence and data. And in general, with with policies, library policies, it's better if you can't. I mean, that's definitely true. Look, it's happened. We need to have a response now that this has become an issue. But also you need to be prepared before it happens as well. And that's just something to talk to your board about in general, that we're going to have policies for lots of things we haven't encountered yet, but we need them first. We have to realize that this is something that happens in other libraries and other communities. It could happen here, and we should be prepared right off the bat, so that it comes up that here we already have a process in place of how we deal with it. You don't wait until after something's happened and then scramble around to figure out now what do we do? I mean, you've got policies for other things in the library of the library activities that maybe you have not actually had happened yet, but you know, you want to be prepared beforehand just in case. You utilize the experiences of others. Yes, exactly. Right here, Lincoln City Libraries. Yes, we know they're a bigger city than us. However, it can be anywhere. And then we have a question right here. And then we have a question to which maybe you would be for Jodi, but you guys might know as well. Does the diatomaceous earth help prevent spread? I suppose that's something that people have heard that it can. So diatomaceous earth is something that the bed bug has to come in contact with. And often when I see that applied, it's not applied appropriately. Like it's just a white path that's not applied appropriately. Like it's just a white powder dusted everywhere. And so that's, it's, it's not usually affected, effective the way that it's used. Because they get in those little crevices and if that doesn't get in those little crevices and hiding places, it's right. I mean, yeah, there are more effective dusts, but they need to be applied directly to those cracks and crevices so that they are going to be likely to come in contact with it and less danger to humans. True. That too. Yep. And another good question that popped up because we're still talking about policies. Your policies also for you, Leigh Ann and Jen, do your policies include fleas and lice as well? Or do you have whole separate policies for those? We don't have separate policies. We have a sort of generic policy. I'm going to read the wording that's straight out of our like library rules and behavior policy. So a repeated return of borrowed materials infested with insects, including but not limited to bedbugs or cockroaches, or live insects observed on body or belongings. So it's covered. Yeah. Ends up being a little more encompassing. But yeah, we have to see evidence of it in either case. So it would include those because it's broad enough to yeah. Right. So it would include fleas and lice. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Go ahead. All right. Well, I am going to talk about the staff training. That's where I come in. Being the direct supervisor of the majority of our frontline and back room staff here at Bennett Martin. It's my job to make sure everybody is trained on identification of bedbugs and damage because you may not actually see a bug or a damage. But we do have a lot of evidence. We also need all our staff members to if they don't know every step of the workflow procedures. Once they have found evidence. They know at least the first couple, which is to not panic and to bag the item and leave it where they're at and come upon a supervisor. But then we do have written procedures that we pull out every time and follow to the letter, which is really helpful because in those moments when you have confirmed that yes, indeed, you're dealing with a bedbug. Maybe it's live. Maybe it's not. Things tend to get heightened a little bit and we do all start itching and kind of we have to remind ourselves to stay down on earth here. We also talk a lot about what to say to the public. This is a really sensitive thing. People automatically assume if you even insinuate that there has potentially been evidence of bed bugs in materials that they've returned, that somehow you're saying that they have a dirty house or that they're filthy or that they're, you know, which is absolutely not the case. This can happen to anybody. It's a community-wide issue. Yeah. And they also want to blame someone. They want to blame the library. They want to blame someone else. So we kind of talk about, you know, keeping it very discreet and in private and being very sensitive to their feelings about it. You don't want to jump in and just be like, you have bedbugs. No. It's definitely a sensitive thing to encounter especially if someone is trying to check out materials after having returned something that has been infested and a note pops up on their account and then that person on the front line has to, you know, let them know potentially before they've gotten their letter notifying them. We've had that happen before and our staff were prepared and they handled it beautifully. So, you know, preparation is the key, I guess. We also let them know how to protect themselves. I mean, usually what we're finding is evidence. We have had situations where we've had live bedbugs in the library, things like that, but we always just advise people, you know, go home if you can. You know, take your clothes off and throw them in the dryer for, you know, a while. You know, be careful with your belongings and things like that. I think. Thank you. All right. Workflow considerations. We inspect all materials that come in that are being checked in. We've trained our staff on how to do that, how to check the spines, the corners, the creases, all those places that those little hitchhikers like to hide. And part of me wants to say, unfortunately, but it's also a good thing. Our staff is very, very good. They're very meticulous and detailed about looking at items and checking for stains and things like that. If they do find something that's questionable, we have to determine if it's obvious bedbug damage or if it's suspected. One of the workflow procedures that we absolutely maintain, I'm pretty strict about this, is when our staff is checking items in on a cart, those items don't go anywhere. They do not get sorted in any way away from that cart until the entire cart has been checked in and every item has been examined. We've had too many situations where you get three quarters of a way through checking in a cart and somebody finds a perfectly squished bedbug in an item and then we have to go back and find all of those items. We have to go back and look at whether that's a good idea or not. We have to go through the contamination for our whole collection. We're very siloed in that way. Keeping everything contained. You just make it a habit of everybody. I think for other types of damage you're checking for too. We have to examine a book that a dog peed on but such as life. We also because well how should I say this? If we do find materials on a specific cart what we do then is treat everything. We do have in our workflows a little bit different but we do have a little bit different but we do have a little bit different feature for things that are just suspected that may have been near or come into contact but may not be the infected material. Part of that is charging the customer where we're finding the evidence placing holds on any of their outstanding items so that when those items get in a freezer or a bakery for treatment and then as Leanne was talking about we do contact the customer. We prepare a letter based on the first, second, or third occurrence and we reach out to them and just let them know give them the information they need to return items safely and then after items have been treated whether it's four days in the freezer or a day in the bakery we have a team a team of two we have a couple of staff members who are kind of specially trained in re-evaluating all of those items because we know that not everything is an issue because of bed bugs but the possibility is there so they've been trained to re-examine them and determine whether or not we're discarding them or returning them to the collection. Someone had a question related to that because concerned about if the bed bug spotting from the blood is on the item the treatment of it's not going to remove that correct? So would that potentially keep popping up as a new discovery of potential bed bugs? How do you tell? What we do whenever we find damage of any kind whether it's you know pen marks or something in an item if it's something that we feel is appropriate to still keep on our shelf to remain in the collection we make a note on the back on our labels so that it doesn't just keep coming back through the cycle and trying to charge someone else or having to bag a whole cart full of things because we see spots of blood or something we try to make note of that so that we're not repeating that no matter what kind of damage we're looking at. I was wondering you could note that somewhere even in the record in your catalog this was actually treated on so and so dates so if it's really bad enough we're just not even going to keep that item we'll reorder it if necessary but we do have some other questions about checking the items when they come back in how much time does this add to the check-in process or do you even know that because it's just become part of the process? I guess that's the question for us it's really become part of the process I would not say that it adds a lot when you've got well trained people you're teaching them certain places to look and what to look for but once they start knowing what they're looking for it becomes second nature to be checking other places on an item making sure things look the way it's coming back in the condition we need it to come back in I think that probably is a concern people think now we're going to have to but it's initially it does add some time because you're learning what to look for I will say well worth the time spent you've got shelves of books or even furniture in the library that is now infested with bed bugs or cockroaches or who knows what or you're confronting the wrong patron about whether it's bed bugs or other damage as well I think that just is to be part of your process of checking in items is making sure it's still in good condition and in case you do need to contact that person about insect infestation or other damage absolutely all right any other questions on that or should we move on to treating we've got questions about treatments I'll let you talk first yeah well we have one of the first things that our committee had to do was obviously determine how are we going to treat items that we get in the moment and so what we did the library is invested in the freezers it's small freezers you know not a great big huge long thing they fit in our back room we had to make room for those we also I don't believe we bought what we call the bakery I don't think I think we just have one or maybe two in our system but it is super lightweight super easy to move around and it comes in very very handy if you end up with a large amount of items that you end up having to treat which we have had happen unfortunately you know if there's one book on one cart but it's completely full and then you find one or two books on another cart they tend to come in spurts and it'll be you know one every day well if something has to be frozen for four days sometimes it can get backed up but that bakery comes in really handy to do some of those paper prints you know items and it holds a lot so you can get a lot done and treated and out of the way by having that as well as a supplemental I will say that we tried to get freezers at every branch I think there's a couple smaller branches that didn't have room for them but most locations do this also prevents having to transfer potentially invested items between branches to get the treatment in the delivery yes that was a big problem for us people were not processing things properly and they would send them down here to our central library and then we ended up with bigger infestations and having to deal with messes that was kind of a nightmare we also you know lots of ziplock bags we just get the big gallon ziplock bags and for obvious evidence items that we know have infestations we double bag all of that if it's a whole cart that I have to have a staff member bag up I might have them just do single bags and we try to get several items in each bag sometimes if you're dealing with small paper bags and everything you can get a bunch in there so it might seem like a big waste but the other thing is as well if it's if there are bags that are just on the suspected items we reuse those once they're done because they've been treated in a freezer or cooked or whatever we recycle those since they haven't come in contact with any actual real damage latex gloves I'm sure that most of us probably have a store of those left over from this last year so some of my back line staff still feel most comfortable handling our materials wearing latex gloves now anyway the one thing that I would recommend I use them a lot we did not have them until I started in this position and it made me really nervous if someone came to me and said I don't know if these spots I don't know if that's actually evidence or what that is I can't tell and it's a little ambiguous to the naked eye so I wanted to be sure partly for my own you know peace of mind but also because we were having instances where the line to treat things in our freezer was getting backed up because it was just kind of boom boom boom and we were running out of space so I wanted to be absolutely sure now I brought them today but since our webcam is not working you won't get to see me put on my really really super attractive jeweler's classes my staff usually laughs at me but I'm like no I'm putting these things on I want to be sure they have little headlights on yeah the power of the lens and I do I mean I just some of my staff I think they think I'm crazy but you know you get right down there on the on the page I'm not touching it you know nothing's gonna jump on me or anything but I I would say I am about 99% sure every time I look at something and I know I can look at it and say no that's that's ash from somebody sitting out by their fire pit or you know that's a piece of food or something rather than you know an egg a bed bug egg or something like that I can be sure and it just it can save a lot of work because that is the thing I checking every material for evidence of this sort evidence of any kind of damage may seem like it adds a lot of time but if you find the damage having to go through this process can be hugely time consuming and it's a lot of work I would rather be 100% percent sure if we're gonna have to spend time doing that so these are super inexpensive on Amazon we got them for every location in our system so that everybody can be sure and like I said they come in totally handy very handy it's kind of rare for us to get something where you're seeing an intact carcass where you can say yep that's a flattened bed bug I mean it does happen but sometimes it's more just the evidence of the blood spotting and things like that so the other thing we invested in is it's called bed bug killer it's eco raider I don't I think I think that I'm not sure I think that our previous branch manager worked with Jody on this maybe not I might be wrong Jody correct me if I'm wrong but it's a spray it's plant extract based and really we just use this if we've had a situation where oh no I picked up that book and I think it was a bug and it fell out and I don't know where it was not you know not a live bug but you know we might spray the carpet around an area or spray down countertops we've had people come in and dump a bag of books on our counter in front of us and then a you know live bug skitters out or something so this is it's kind of a safe to use in public areas and things like that specific to bed bugs or other things called bed bug killer it says natural insecticidal active fast kill with 100% efficacy kills adults nymphs and eggs child pet bird and fish friendly low odor and non staining I wouldn't I don't know if this is something that I would necessarily like treat my house with maybe that's what people do I would personally get professionals but we have used it here like we did have one instance where we saw a patron had visible bed bugs on them so we kind of followed the area that that person had traveled in the library and sprayed to try to ensure that nothing here a lot and this is I mean I'm sure you can get elsewhere but I just double checked and it is available just on like Amazon so it's not specialty in the sense of you have to go through some out of the ordinary location to get it right Jody you wanted to say something about the sprayer yeah so you curator there I mean it is a botanical based insecticide for for bed bugs however it's a contact so you have to spray it on it so it's not like you want to spray your whole house or the whole library and anything walking over it would contact it right so in what you're doing I think that's perfectly fine because you know you're seeing you're seeing it and you're treating it for most people who have suspicions in their own home we really don't recommend anyone treating anything unless they really do have evidence that there's a bed bug so I mean for your cases yeah if you see it fall down and you want to kill it you know that that would work they do sell them in like little versions too so you can travel with them so you know it's in the case if you wanted to spray the zipper of your luggage or something like that but it's not something you would want to spray your home with but yeah no I'm glad that you guys have something to use I think it also works as peace of mind for our staff because that's the first thing they want to do is you know wipe down all areas what they touch do you see on sanitizer so but yeah as I said I would definitely be contacting the professional in which case that's kind of a perfect time for me to turn it back over to Leanne I knew that she would absolutely insist on a couple of questions about the treatment to you so had so for you've got heat treatment and freeze treatment how do you determine which one to do or do you do both we default to the freezer always the freezer however if our freezer gets full which it can you know like I said we got kind of the smaller freezers maybe something like the size you have in your garage but depending on the library maybe you get a great big huge one so that you don't have to run into this problem but because of the size of our freezers and occasionally I mean we may go weeks and weeks with never having anything in it and then we may have a couple of different days where we have items that we need to treat and it's full that's why we have the backup of that bakery and like I said we only put print materials in there so we can kind of pick and choose if we've got a ton of DVDs or something well we'll put those in the freezer they can't go in the freezer yeah right I mean I think that people have accidentally stuck things in the bakery and we were okay on it but when you're talking about potentially losing a bunch of you know money and materials if they get cooked and warped or something like that I wouldn't take the chance um that's how you switch to use you don't have to do both you can pick one or the other depending on the spacing and what the item is we need to so like you know like Jen said about the cart checking in if we find something on the cart we'll end up treating the whole cart just to be cautious which could fill your whole freezer and then if you have another cart or something that comes in even the next day because they have to be in there for four days if we have evidence the next day we might try to put as much of that as we can in the bakery so that we can get it out of the way or we bag everything up and it kind of you know we'll take the stuff where we absolutely are sure of evidence and we'll make sure to get that treated ASAP but if there's suspected materials we bag everything and it it may have to sit there for a little bit but that's partly because of the size of library we are and also like Leanne said we probably over treat to be on the safe side it's better be safe yeah absolutely I mean a few more questions but I wanted to say first it did just hit 11am but we're not going to stop the show or anything we'll go as long as it takes for Leanne and Jen to get through their slides and get all of your questions answered if you do need to leave that's okay if you only a lot of the one hour for watching us for recording and the whole recording will be available to you watch later so you can catch anything you missed I also know I think Jodi you had mentioned you might need to take off for something else right now so if you do yeah I can stay on for another like 10 minutes okay sure yeah you just let us know no problems if anybody has any specific Jodi questions make sure you get it let's do that now but we did have so it was the other question oh the latex gloves that you mentioned someone else do they have to be latex or just any kind of glove that's just they don't have to be latex for those with the latex allergies but the just like the any kind of glove and then one of the treatment question can you quarantine items in ziploc bags as a treatment meaning I guess just in a ziploc would that actually do anything on its own just it'll prevent bread but I don't believe it'll kill the but I guess Jodi would probably better answer this like eventually without feeding I would assume they would die but I can't imagine it would probably be I mean it would be at least a month a long time without feeding yeah so that would be a month long quarantine of the months so I wouldn't even feel safe if unless it was probably three and a half four months yeah that's a long time to have things set off not used yeah so you're probably go with looked into freezing or heating instead yeah but and Jodi correct me if I'm wrong on this but depending on the outside temperature you know like in the middle of winter you could potentially put something out in an uninsulated storage unit or something for a few days and or during the you know 100 degree temperatures in the summer bake them out that way as well I would yeah I mean I would have a thermal like I would have a thermometer there usually in Nebraska it doesn't get cold and I like if you were to put a mattress outside or anything like that I mean it's got to be zero degrees Fahrenheit for four days like for at least 96 hours I think Valentine's Day we hit that but there has not been any other time since I've been with extension that people could put things outside and then when it comes to like a hot car or anything if you have it maybe in a container and put it in you know that might work or a bag but you know if you think about like a car and where you put maybe like for me my chapstick like I always know where the cold sinks are so that I don't melt all my things so that we'll find a way to escape that lethal temperature if they can right right go ahead all right one other resource we use our bed bugs sniffing dogs we used to have a dog named spots that was our primary bed bug hunter he's mostly retired now but we do have Ruby and Charlotte they come quarterly to all of our branches all of our locations when when an item is deemed to have bed bug evidence in it the dog will bark to alert us we'll then if it's a book we'll take generally that shelf of books and the shelves just above or below to try to you know make sure we cover everything and treat those like we do with the workflow's treatment that Jen took you through and when it comes to furniture being infested we used to have to send our chairs or etc like with the company to take them and treat them and they'd be gone for about a week they've modified things now so that they can treat onsite and generally we can return it to the public area within 24 hours so this is how someone did actually ask it's cool that you moved on to this slide about staff conducting inspections on furniture so do you guys do that or is this how the furniture is checked would be with the dogs generally it's with the dogs unless we have some reason or inkling that we need to check something specific but yeah we usually bring them in corgally so that they can try to cover anything that we may miss so preventative type yeah all right and then we do like we said contacting the customers we've talked about some here when we talk to customers we want to educate customers as to how we're addressing the threat of bed bugs so we will let people know our process of our preventative measures and the processes we take when there is suspected evidence have to think of things like if materials are turned with the bed bug evidence what happens then there again we try to be discreet in our talking to the customers in the sense of we have found evidence of bed bugs rather than saying like you have customers I have found get very defensive even at the thought of potentially having bed bug evidence lots of people are quick to say well I got them from you it's not us and I'm clean there's a misconception that bed bugs are only in dirty places as well they're legitimately anywhere and then we oftentimes will point customers to the FAQs that we have but then also to the extension office as well for any other information that they might want on bed bugs and identifying information so we do have some photos of examples here they aren't necessarily as creepy as the live bed bugs or whatever that Jody had but here's some examples of evidence as just some things to be looking for specifically on library materials these are the kinds of things that I would see you can see the dot right here and then the smudge a little dot up here at the top those are the kind of things that you look at and you may go oh yeah that's evidence of bed bugs but it could also be food smugs and that's why I love my little jeweler's glasses if I have a staff member come to me unsure this however is much more obvious and a greater indicator of what you would see one of the first things that I tell people when they're learning how to check in and look for these types of things is to look especially this is a hard cover item you know look at the bottoms look at the tops specifically right around the spine we also we don't have a slide of this but we also open the book and flap it open and let the dust jacket kind of fall away from the spine and look down that spine they like to hide in those dark areas here's a close up of that you know the stitching and everything this is blood spots and evidence here that's a pretty good indicator that's you know that's a no-brainer we bag it and we're treating that one and but we also you know flip through the pages we generally find less in the pages unless it is a big severe infestation where someone's reading and a bug crawls across their page and they don't notice it or don't care these are very similar to the photos that Jody showed us where it's soaking into the paper you can see the blood and spotty evidence feces I think this is an exoskeleton I thought I guess I thought it was a bug that maybe hadn't fed yet but you can see the little I can't remember what Jody called it I was going to call it a poker sorry nothing it's a beak yeah it's a beak and you know you may be able to see this but you might not be sure this is obviously a very blown up one sometimes they're easier to see than others but this is exactly why I purchased those jeweler's glasses so that I can be as sure as possible before so that we can take the right steps in treating and following our workflows making sure that we're contacting the right customer and handling everything properly alright just a little bit more I guess about our bed bug dog snippers we go through a company called canine bed bug detection like I said spots is mainly retired but this now they generally bring in their two dogs Ruby and Charlotte and kind of especially at Fennett Martin where we're on multiple levels they spread out and cover ground a little faster I actually have a question I'm glad you mentioned I wanted to know what the cost is of the dogs oh that is a good question off the top of my head I'm not entirely sure I feel like it's a company canine bed bug detection that does this as a thing yes and that's fantastic I want to say I'm trying to think invoice wise I think it was like 250 for a branch maybe that could be way wrong it may depend on the size of the building and as well we also have a contract for all our locations which is eight different locations of various sizes so but you see a picture of James there he's fantastic to work with we highly recommend checking them out and they're based here in Lincoln or yes but they also they will also treat Lincoln, Omaha, Bellevue, Fremont, North Pole, Grand Island, New York, Beatrice, Council of Iowa and I think probably more than that I think they're willing to go quite a ways to help out with this I found their website and I'll share it I'll make sure everybody has access to that and it's K9 it's like the letter K9 bed bug detection and then that is all we have here's our contact information for Dr. Jody myself and Jen here at Lincoln City Library. Thank you Jody. Please let us know if you have any questions you know you think of something later or want to know specifics on you know how we may handle something I mean we kind of went through the treatment we didn't talk a lot about how we handle it on a customer's account but we do have very specific detailed workflows on all of that so please contact us if you need more guidance we know it's definitely something that will freak everybody out staff, patrons alike. Somebody did ask which is an interesting way of working the question how do you get staff comfortable doing the inspections is it just... Don't focus on the bed bug. You know when I train people do it we're training them to check in and part of that check-in process is examining all our materials for damage and then you're talking about some of the damages that we're looking for this is what you want to look for and you know we have a great big poster in our back room with the different images of bed bugs and all these kind of things that we've looked at today um it takes time you know I haven't had anybody run out the door yet on their first day when I mentioned it um but you know that first time I always tell them look when in doubt if you're worried about it if you think bag it up leave the item where it is you know we really really emphasize no cross contamination if you find a suspect material don't carry it across the library to come and find me in my office um leave it where it's at bag it and then come get me and we'll go through it together and we'll you know you're not alone in this um I have a lot of staff come to me and just say I have a bug for you to look at which is always great here um and then uh generally you know there's a couple that are like I'm pretty sure it's not a bad bug but I just want a second opinion before I move on you know things like that so they'll they'll bag it as if they were bed bugs even if they don't think it is and we'll take a look at it if they play it safe just in case you'd rather yeah air on the side of caution and go on with you know what they're doing and if it is then we take the uh extra precautions with it yeah and then we all walk around itching our hair and they don't generally crawl into your hair so we're you know it's it's just one of those irrational reactions um yeah um all right so we do have someone else who did say let's see um um we've as here I mentioned my head yeah uh we've had all the dogs someone else that they've had that done at their location um and it was $200 per location so um that might be okay yeah I think it's the size yeah but um the dogs are very high they're very highly specially trained I mean you've heard of like cadaver dogs and drug sniffing dogs these dogs are that I mean that's the type of training they go through like the same training they're not yeah it's they're pretty intense a super specialized service yeah and if you're yeah if you're anywhere in Nebraska or Iowa you're here on this side of the um they mention communities they serve Lincoln Omaha Bellevue Fremont Norfolk Grand Island Hastings Council of Iowa and more um but also when I was looking up this particular company other ones came up around the country so wherever you are go and look up you know dog bed bug detection and you'll find something um they are this company also I believe they they do commercial I know that he talks about going to apartment buildings and nursing homes and a lot of that quite often but I I think that they also do single family homes and just say residential and commercial yeah yeah so they've been very very busy there are certain times of the year or even you know during the pandemic you know or at here after where they've been very very very busy so they're really great um I know actually Jody was mentioning yesterday that during the pandemic because of more people being at home that there might be more outbreaks yep that's that's what James was telling us to the last last time we talked to him we thought we'd be seeing uh an uptake in it potentially as people are getting back out right because now they're going to be returning doing more things out yeah yeah um let's see somebody have a question how often do you guys deal with bed bugs how often does this I mean you said it started about 10 years ago you noticed it being a thing how regular is this popping up um it kind of ebbs and flows like Jen mentioned um we'll go weeks and weeks and weeks sometimes months with nothing or we'll have a staff member you know with suspicions who will come to us and just give us the look look now so we get up and go to check it out um and maybe it's something and maybe it's nothing I mean we had gone many many weeks um you know and I was in the back room with one of my um unclassified staff members and all of a sudden he went and I said what he goes shut the book and he grabbed a bag and bagged it up and he's like I have a bug I have and it was live and it was moving and of course I went we went to look for it and it was gone we could not find it and I don't know what it did they are hiders they are hitchhikers and hiders because we almost we almost we couldn't we couldn't find it and we almost said oh okay well you know what I guess maybe it wasn't what we thought it was and didn't do anything about it and then I just moved something because he thought he had squished it in the book in between the you know the cover and no and then it moved and then it it that wasn't a fun night but you know it happens um and then it you know that caused us to have to bag up a huge cart because it was right after we had stopped our quarantining for the pandemic of course so yeah so we had we had a few more materials sitting around than you know we normally would so I will say that during like the quarterly checks pretty regularly they'll find at least one location yeah branches get the all clear um I know that Bennett Martin in particular being the central downtown library I feel like we are less likely to get an all clear um which we did last time though which was awesome because like the first time I think ever ever at this location but yeah it really just kind of it varies like there'll be some branches that get away scot-free with the check others you know there's like a piece of furniture that they had to spray or um a row of books that they had to treat yeah you just never know okay we haven't had anything like all over the library no we haven't had what we would call like a major infestation and part of that is because of all the preventative you know things that we do in the exam and like I said when I treat people to do the excuse me treat train people to do the check in they're not just looking for bed but stuff you know they're looking for those other damages that we see where people are writing in books or you know crossing out all the bad words or you know ripping a page or staining it with food or liquid um so you know although like Leanne said we are the downtown central library and our collection is is a bit older than some of our other locations so we have things around for years our staff is still on top of it as far as like new damage and things like that so the time that you spend teaching your staff how to look for this you know this evidence and everything isn't going to be wasted at all because you know they're also going to be looking for other kinds of damage and then deciding this book is so old it is so worn it needs replacing anyway so it's a whole it's part of a bigger process right um so someone has a question I don't know the answer to this I think I do do you guys at Lincoln libraries do we have an automated material handling equipment or is it all just no it's all all touched by humans yeah because they were wondering how would that change the process for looking for damage and I guess that'd be a question for people who have one of those kind of systems yeah and that's something I know when we talked about trying to get a new central library they talked about the automated check-in and I at this point haven't been able to figure out a solid answer as to how to instill some of those preventative measures using those yeah well there's check-in and then there's checking after the check-in yeah there's yeah yeah well and with some of those automated machines if I'm speaking to a library out there who's very familiar and has had them for years and I say something wrong please correct me but um quite often items are coming through either directly from the book drop or however that works and they're getting sorted directly in two different bins or areas so you automatically have that spread if you have evidence or infestation somewhere or the potential for that at least that's how I understand it I'm not sure if I'm right on that but that would be a concern for me you know so I guess we'll see if there are different um different processes different processes or even different um different equipment and different technology out there on the market that you know maybe have ways to read it as it comes just the drop box you know I don't know alright so we just have a last couple of comments um and I think we will wrap up here um in a minute so if you have any last but desperate questions you want to ask of um Leanne and Jennifer right now get them typed in but there is their contact info you can reach them at any time and Jody who did have to leave for another um meeting um that she said anyone who wants to you can email and reach out to her with questions you might have too um but we have some questions comments just someone says um we have lots of people wanting to donate boxes of books to the library as everyone does now I'll be extra careful of those boxes and thanks for the photos um I wasn't really sure what to look for so that will help a lot and as I mentioned these slides um and Jody's already emailed me hers um we'll all be available to you guys afterwards with the recording so you can um as long as you want to stare at the pictures and figure it doesn't freak you out they'll be able to go right to it and someone says they've had fleas they know what their library but not bed bugs that they know of now with the pictures they'll be able to differentiate yeah and I did mention to um um the Leanne and Jen mentioned that they have those letters that they um send to their um the patrons the first, second, third they sent me copies of those so I will post them up as well too as you have the examples of the letters the notification letters um that you could use to send alright um yes ah good question and something we just discovered yesterday yes Jennifer's email is correct with 3Js um we had uh I was trying to they just changed their email addresses at Lincoln City Libraries and um there must be other J Jackson like Citywide addresses rather than Lincoln Library right the library addresses and now it's going to the Citywide one and there's lots of J Jackson so yes she it is JJ yeah they had to go to our middle names and yes my middle name starts with it that is not a title that is yeah um it makes you feel better I did the same thing I didn't know that my new email address was that and I could figure out what I was doing for the longest time so and and so I want to know if your um actual written policy is available is that somewhere on the Lincoln City's website or is that that other document that you sent along um I sent the workflows documents um it's what we train people on um the behavior policy is available online I believe um but I can send that to you but that's where we have like as a level 4 offense which would be having somebody leave immediately um that's where they had the repeated return of items with insects and or those observed on the body so um so yes you can look at the Lincoln Library's website yeah too alright um so this is the webpage that I found of the K9 Fedbug Detection here in um Lincoln um Residentially and commercial call them for an estimate or appointment and yep communities all around um anywhere middle of the state East and into Iowa and I see that he hasn't they've had um Ruby has taken uh taken the lead and said spots is semi-retired but I would imagine he would say they have been so busy that they haven't even been able to update their update the website yeah but they do do a great job I mean when our staff sees or knows that the Fedbug Docs have been here um there's just sort of a you know sense of relief I mean of course we all like to see Docs in the library but um that makes everybody feel feel a little better at least for a few days yes of course alright great so um they'll wrap it up for today's show um thank you Leigh Ann and Jen being there even though we couldn't see you on camera I feel bad I saw you yesterday literally like still spinning something's gone okay yay technology you know Dr. Jody Green who did have to take off um we have a lot of great information as I said I've got the slides I've got the documents everything will be up with the recording the recording should be ready for everyone to watch by at the latest the end of the day tomorrow as long as go to webinar and YouTube cooperate with me um I'll have that posted this is our Encompass Live website if you google or use your search engine of choice to look up Encompass Live it's for the only thing called that on the internet at the moment no one else is allowed to use that name um you'll come across our website with our upcoming shows um but right beneath those is a link to our archives the most recent one is at the top of the page here this is the one from last week um so the bed bug one will be here and there'll be a link just like for this one a link to the recording um but this one will have more links though there's gonna be the two presentations and all the different documents um the resources the letters and things that um Leigh Ann sent to me um will be there everyone who attended today's show and registered for today's show will get an email from me letting you know when the recording is ready and hear for you to watch uh while I'm here I'll show you this is our search you have a search feature here you can search our full archives if you want to you can also just search the most recent 12 months if you just want some current information um we have that uh one filter there because this is the full show archives for Encompass Live but I'm not gonna scroll all the way to the bottom because it's a lot um but Encompass Live premiered in January 2009 so we have over 10 years worth of recordings here and we do have them all still here even all the old ones um so just do pay attention to the original broadcast date of any show if you do watch it um some of our shows stand the test of time you know book reviews different things um may still be good but some of them may become outdated um services and programs may have changed entirely resources may have changed some things may no longer exist anymore links may be broken websites we've shared don't work anymore um so just pay attention when you are watching one of these um how old it might be um but we will always keep everything up here we are librarians we archive things and keep things for historical purposes so um as long as we have a place to um uh store them we will keep them there um we do also have a Facebook page for Encompass Live that I linked to here I've got to open over here if you do our big Facebook user give us a like you'll get reminders here's a reminder to log in today's show yes uh we are aware that is not a bad bug on that picture um as Jodi mentioned in our and a tweet she sent out we just want to scare people away um but that was just the picture we picked that was for a little graphic there but we do reminders of the shows that are coming up letting people know the recordings are available anything else of interest if you do like to use Facebook give us a like over there we do have a um hashtag we use elsewhere um Instagram Twitter and comp live little abbreviation there for the show so you can also look for that out on other social media to see what we're doing or just you know keep an eye on our website so um that'll wrap it up for today's show um hope you join us next week um as uh the last Wednesday of the month so it is pretty sweet tech day um once a month Amanda sweet our technology innovation librarian comes on the show to talk about anything tech related um she comes out of the times too but she always is here the last Wednesday of the month and next week can we doing something that I think might be fun talking about spatial a 3d meeting space that you can use um everyone's doing a lot more virtual remote things we've been doing Compass Live as I said for over 10 years but people are doing a lot more ways of meeting together um so ched maren from the innovation librarian down in St. Petersburg College Florida is going to be with Amanda to talk about that and he has some instructions here for you to set up an account ahead of time if you want to actually participate within spatial and meet up with him using your own avatar so we've got some instructions there um to do some pre-setup for next week's show um is that required we're going to be broadcasting here to go to webinar but it might be something fun you might want to do to be more um interactive with it so a little special session so go ahead and register for that and any of our other shows we have coming up on Encompass Live thank you everybody for being here with us this morning and hopefully we'll see you on a future episode thank you thank you guys bye bye