 I'm really happy to be here with Sonya, Sonya the gray, and you could tell us a bit about that if you want to Sonya. Um, so Sonya and I have worked together at various courses and most recently. She's been helping me a lot with the AI course. And so we will definitely talk about AI stuff in this video. I know you who are at least mildly interested in it or at least aren't aren't running screaming the other direction. But even if you are you might find this interesting if you're willing to hear us out a little bit. So Sonya, I'm going to let you introduce yourself. However, it's coming out today is just great. But also, because people know you, some people know you as Sonya the gray, you might want to tell us about that too. Yeah, well, Sonya the gray started as an insight of feeling like how much of the work I do that's really intuitive and wizard like like I just I had this. Somebody asked me who would you be if you were in a movie, and I took it a little too seriously and like started making a list of every movie character I could ever think of and was struck by all of a sudden I was like, whoa Gandalf is everything I do. It's all there. It kind of blew my mind and, and gray has always been my favorite color. It's always around me so I just I just latched on right away and it's interesting because I actually feel more in that name than I have ever felt with any of my last names like it just feels like me I wouldn't be surprised if someday I have actually changed it to Sonya gray like that would be very plausible. Yeah. So doing intuitive work and astrology and chaos magic and just helping people with career and purpose and that kind of thing. And then AI came along, and it kind of scoops up the the intuitive elements, along with my tech background, because I've got a good I don't know 20 1020 years in tech. And also your love of sci fi. Yeah, yeah, all the things come together with AI really well so it's really interesting because it's kind of the, it's kind of the tech that I always dreamed about of wanting to be involved in tech without having to get into the code in the same way and not ever really enjoyed code very much I can do it. I don't love it. But AI kind of changes the playing field a lot with that so that's part of the reason what really pulled me in. Yeah, I can, I can attest to you being, you can do code because I mean you've helped me with some spreadsheets. Magic there is like, oh my gosh that formula is insane. And that's coding to and yeah I guess for programmers they would say that's very light coding for us very bad coding it's very inefficient as far as they're concerned but it's fantastic I love spreadsheet. It's amazing. Well, for those of you who would like some spreadsheet magic, you can hire Sonia for that. It's been amazing. So one thing before we get into AI topics. Two things I want to ask you about one is you said chaos magic. And you just kind of like chaos magic you said, but a lot of people don't know what that means. Right. So tell us more about that. Yeah, chaos magic is, in a lot of ways it's, it's, it's a lot of the elements of spirituality and manifestation, but removed from any connection to religion or what it what it really is is what you what you really do is you start looking at different religions and different processes like wicca or even Christianity or you just can look at all of them. And you look at the processes that work and you pull them out you kind of look at like, how does this work. Without the religious overtones. And then you put it into practice and I'm probably explaining this really badly somebody who know that makes a lot of that that sounds really cool. So it's almost like a scientific method of it is it actually kind of is religious ritual. Yeah, and and what's because for me what I firmly believe is that are the physical objects around us act as a conduit from spiritual energy into the real world. So there's all this talk a lot of the time in spiritual worlds of like, Oh, you need to be able to do it without any crutches without anything physical. I've always sort of taken issue with that, because I believe that if you can use a tool to make it easier and faster and better than God just do it, use the tools that are around us right. So if you're leaning on them so hard that you don't understand the process and that's a problem but if you can utilize a tool to make something even cooler or better or whatever, and you may as well do that. So for me, the way that a lot of this chaos and you can see it it's all over my office here, all this stuff in the background is all spell work type stuff. And the way that it, what it what it does is it acts as a conduit to pull that energy through, and it can be anything you know you can do it with your morning tea, it can be like, Hey, I want this tea to help me find clarity and you just imagine it bringing you clarity as you drink it in. The part of chaos magic that I'm really bad about, which you might not find surprising because you know my history with being consistent about things is, it's not you're supposed to like track it and record it and really check on what's working and what's not interesting and be really diligent like this is where that scientific part comes back right. And I hate that part. It's not very interesting. Yeah, and no this but this is such a helpful explanation of it. So, and of course people this is part of the work you do with people to you help them with. Yeah, yeah, it sort of just comes as it just sort of comes in I don't ever. Well that's not true I guess I have done just this for people specifically. But it tends to come in just automatically. The other cool thing about chaos magic is that it's you get to you sort of bring in the belief while you're doing the work and then you let that belief go again so like if you were going to do a prayer that has a specific connection to religion and you bring in that belief just for a little bit and then you let it go. And it's kind of this really interesting way of sort of touching on all these different elements of of the world and energy and whatnot it's really fun. I, I love the idea, and I have, as you can see just renamed my zoom name to George cow chaos magic with a nice fancy. That's perfect to be a new brand for me now. For the rest of this interview anyway. So, two things, one thing I want to talk about kairos a little bit, which leads into the AI because maybe you can explain kairos to people or how you understand it and then how it relates to your leaning into the AI at this moment yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I started the beginning of this year by, and we talked about this in the first interview about kairos and chronos time chronos being calendar like schedule very sort of more rigid. So it's a Saturn energy for anybody who's into astrology, and then kairos is sort of, it's, it's a magical in between time it's where time, as we understand it on a clock doesn't really apply. So that can be flow, it can be those magical moments like at sunset, where everything's just kind of perfect and you feel like you're there forever. And I also I've been using it as a way to think about intuitively guided action, because for me there's a distinction between, we I think I already said this this one is I'm so fiercely passionate about this piece that there's a distinction between following your interest and your impulses and following intuitive guidance right because you can be impulsively like hey I want to go watch Netflix all day. And that's not necessarily intuitively guided. And so really trying to tune into what does this moment want for me like what's happening in this moment where do I need to be. What do I need to do really listening to guides and and my gut and kind of trying to like find what information is coming in for what I need to work on. What happened very recently with that is, I was really looking at trying to work every day through as much kairos as possible with bringing in the chrono scheduled work as needed right pause go get the kid that kind of thing. And what I started to realize is that I've been layering expectations of my own around what I think business should be on top of the kairos instruction. And so like, I would feel that a day was supposed to go. You know, maybe it was supposed to be a rest day or maybe it was supposed to be I'm supposed to work on this one thing. And then this extra layer of of ego business worry fear all of that stuff comes piling on top of it. And says okay sure I'll do this one thing, but I'm going to do it this way in a way that is really driven by all of these nerves and fears and worries and I wasn't really doing just the one thing that I was being shown. So I've been trying really hard to just do that and it's extro it's excruciatingly difficult. And by the way just wanted for those who are getting what can you use kairos chrono never heard of that. For those who want to see how the spelling is that's how you spell it. Chronos kairos Greek words basically for different ways of looking at time, sort of like more linear time versus opportunity type base time. Okay, now I want to like start getting to the ice of. I mean, my interpretation is that because you follow or you aim to follow your intuitive guidance or kairos time. You leaned more and more into the AI stuff so tell us about that. Well, what what definitely happened was, I was following my kind of guidance around stuff and as AI stuff became started to explode. I just kept being pulled there and it was, it was all everything was being pulled there wasn't just, it wasn't just intuitive guidance of oh hey follow this it was just all my whole being went that way. And I couldn't stop talking about it, I, you know, I always have something some input giving me information something coming through where I have ideas and I have interest. And I also discovered rather quickly that it's a time where I'm extremely willing to put my opinion out into the world in a way that I usually avoid, I usually say like, I'm not going to get into that fight right now about whatever this topic is and with AI I'm just like, yeah, I'm going to talk about this and this is what I believe and so there's a lot of pieces that feel like they're falling into alignment. Which is sort of a weird accidental pun from AI but I'll move on from that. And by the way, for those who don't know is a big topic these days how do we align AI's values or direction with humanistic values and direction. But yes, go ahead. Thank you. I was like, I'm not even going to be able to explain this. And so, feeling myself really in a space that makes a lot of sense for me. But I don't know what to do with it and one of the things I actually just sort of as a sidebar I got really kind of pissed at my guides because these last seven years it's like what was all this if you're just going to throw me back into technology. And the kind of the feeling that I got very quickly back was realizing that I would not have pursued the spiritual elements of everything as hard as I did if I wasn't trying to apply them to a business, because I like, I just jump into everything. I'm all in when I'm on a topic that's, it's where I go so I wouldn't have been able to be like, I'm a developer and also studying spirituality on the side it was too conflicting. And that's kind of an interesting like, Oh, all this work to do all this business building over here was my way of expressing it. It felt like an important noticing because I think there's times where we struggle to push things into into existence in a certain way that like, it's okay that we're trying to push it in that way even if it ends up being about something else right because that's just how we need to express it in that moment, rather than what it ends up being later, you know, like rather beating ourselves up over. This didn't go the way I wanted it's like okay but that brought about this piece of new later. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, totally. Yeah, no and and that's, that's great. I'm really curious how, because we started talking about chaos magic. And now we're talking about AI. Do you see the do those two circles have a Venn diagram for you. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how they wouldn't. AI is a tool. I mean I heard I heard it as I was saying it before right AI is a tool that is going to enable us to manifest skills and capabilities and stuff that we could not possibly have done before. And it's all going to be about what kind of intention we put into our use of AI. And what kind, you know, the ability to kind of connect with it and align with it spiritually at the same time as we use it can absolutely have a chaos magic implication because everything has the potential to be I mean your cup or your post it notes or whatever like your computer. Your piece of everything around us can be used as chaos magic so absolutely. And I think, even in the way that I explained chaos magic of having it be like a this conduit, or catalyst is another word I've used a lot, and AI is absolutely a catalyst for being able to tap into expression and abilities in knowledge in a way that has not easily been able to do without a lot of work and study right. I don't know if you want to mention how you're using it, even for astrology. I know that was an example you brought into our, our AI private Facebook group. Yeah, part of the course that I teach on the AI stuff and there's a lot of stuff that's shared in there about how people are using it. But do you want to mention about that. Yeah, I mean and I think it's a good example of something you can do, regardless of the topic astrology is just the topic. But what I will do is I will say hey you're my personal astrologer. This works way better with chat GPT for by the way. The paid plus subscription right. I will say you're my personal astrologer and then I will go get my chart from anywhere that can print it as text. So, you don't want the physical picture because it can't take pictures. You can just get like, it can copy and paste I think astro see has it. You can copy and paste the text of your chart which is impossible to read as a human you look at it like I don't know what this means. You paste it and you say here's my chart, and then you can even do. You can get the chart for the current day and paste it in and say here's today here because it can't check that by itself right now so you just say here's today's, here's my chart. Tell me what is significant for me right now, or, and you could, or you could get your own transit chart and put that in if you know what that looks like you can ask it that because I don't know if it can probably can't calculate transits but So you can put in your own transit chart and say tell me what this looks like for me today. It's amazing because what I done do is I follow my intuition with it of well that one that it's talking about none of these are resonating with me but that one sounds interesting tell me more about that one, or for some reason Mars stands out right now tell me what Mars has for me in today's chart, like, you just start asking it random questions because that's what an astrologer is doing is they're looking at a chart and they're saying this stands out to me now of course, they're also using their education around the, all the things you're supposed to look at, but if you follow your intuition with with what seems important you can get some pretty cool results, and you can do that with any topic you could put in. I don't know I don't know another example because right now my brain spinning. Yeah, and I'm curious, do you is this something you could do as a service for somebody else I'm wondering. Probably, I don't want to but I could somebody could somebody could do it. Yeah. What, you know what, because especially if they have even a little bit of understanding astrology they could use it to crank out. Output that they could then look I mean and also there are chart there's chart software I mean there's kind of an element of like, how useful is this compared to chart software and I think that's a question people are asking a lot in general about like here's, here's what AI puts out and here's what this dedicated software puts out, which one's better right and although we can talk we can talk when we have a conversation with, with chat GPT that we can't do with a chart software and that's why I think for me the interesting piece is that I can use chat GPT for that, and then I can turn around and put in an article that I'm writing and ask it for help developing the article and, and it's the same tool. So, the, and there's another guy out there who's using it for data imagery stuff so like its ability to cross process different types of information is really powerful. And for me, what I'm most interested in right now and why I'm struggling to find kind of the, my footing is because I'm kind of looking, I'm trying to look ahead, I'm trying to figure out where is this going, because I don't think, you know, there's hundreds that maybe I don't know if people at this point selling prompts. And prompts for those who don't know is what you put into chat GPT to get it to output something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's this. It's so easy to just use it as a conversation to just, you know, hey, okay, you can't answer this question for me about astrology what do you need for me in order to answer this question. Oh, you tell me what you okay great I'll put this in now so I need your help with this article. What, how can you best help me with it you know you can add it sometimes those answers are great and sometimes they're not great and you still have to use your human mind to evaluate whether or not the chat GPT answers make any sense. I'm seeing all these people talking about prompting and I'm like, yeah prompting is a human engagement with a computer and that's weird to think about but it's what we're doing is we're having to use our human empathy to engage with something technological. You treat it like a, like it. I don't believe that it's alive, but you treat it as though it were so that you are receiving answers that are in tune with what you're trying to ask. You know, if I ask it really abruptly and harshly about something it gives me a bullet list back. And if I ask it in a gentle, like, kind phrasing it gives me gentle kind phrasing back like. It's in kind. Yeah, yes, absolutely. And so that's where empathy comes in because empathy is so much a part of you know mirror neurons and us reflecting each other and all of that language. The same thing is happening with chat to be she or any chat bot. And so for me I'm looking at that and I'm saying like here's all these people trying to treat it like a, like an engineering tool and I, it's, it's past that it's beyond that and so trying to figure out how people can use it because my biggest passion about this right is that I believe it's going to disrupt industries that we can't even consider easily right now it's going to get in and be. Oh, I don't think I think we're a ways off from it taking anything over right I don't think we're going to replace lawyers or anything as you know things like that. But I do think that the people who are using it are the people who are going to to progress or go climb the ladders or whatever other phrases we're using these days. They are the ones who are going to do well in their fields and I think when people aren't using it it's going to be harder and harder and harder. So I'm trying to figure out how do I help people use this tool, beyond just what's being talked about today like how do we look at it as a collaborator for our work whether you're an entrepreneur or or in your career either way like we need to be working with it. Yeah, yes. I mean, there's like several analogies for like people say oh this like a calculator, which is not a bad analogy because it's like, when the calculator first imagine the calculator first came out you're like oh it's, it's going to replace our ability to think about numbers and and calculate in our own head so don't use it you know, and then the people who are learning how to use it are getting more competitive in their field because they're saving time doing it, or another way of it's it's sort of like, like an intern, right like an intern is someone you don't just give work to and go all right you, I'm going to give whatever you give me to the public no you still check it and you still guide it train it. And the people who say well it's too much work working with an intern, I'll just do it myself right every every small business owner like, you know can't find good help these days and I'll do it I'll do it myself. It's like well but if you learn how to work with an intern you're actually going to get ahead in the long term because you'll be able to have leadership skills you'll be able to learn how to train and how to guide and how to empathize and how to correct and all that stuff anyway. All right, I want to, it's given that we have a few minutes left I want to. Yeah, two things I want to tell people about one is you have a great substack newsletter. I'll be sure you know that that talks about sort of like the, the AI how to deal with it well, the future of etc, and your thoughts about your perspectives. I don't know if it's below but what else can people reach out to you in terms of what they could buy from you, essentially, do you have available. You know, and that's, that's a lot of this sort of turning point that I'm in right now, right, I'm not really sure. So, I mean, I've had people reaching out to me asking if they can hire me to just consult with them about how they might use AI. And that's kind of my, that's kind of my sweet spot too is that like if somebody stuck or freaked out or not sure or struggling with, including if they're worried about their career and like how do I use this and whatnot. That just aligns all the pieces that I work with really well. I'm not a bot builder yet, someday maybe but right now I'm not. I've joined with it. So, so it's really about, but, but also if there's something that someone has heard me talking about in here where they just like I want to work with her on that like that's just where I'm at right now. Yeah. And I don't think anybody knows these people who are creating AI jobs, I think it's like, do you really know. I mean the developers, yes, they know, they've been in this for years but like the people are trying to make up stuff right now I don't think you know. No, it's it's very much Wild West. Yeah, make it up right now, generative jobs. So, yeah, I encourage people to go look at your sub stack and also to look at your Facebook posts because you do a lot of like up to date, the latest insights on this or that which is really interesting I find. And obviously look at your website and I think it's I think people will benefit just from spending some time with you and getting your help on stuff so as I have in various ways so thank you so much Sonia. Thanks, George.