 Good afternoon, everyone. This is Friday, February 5th, and this is Senate education this afternoon we are Going to start by spending some time With a bill that senator rom and others submitted and I apologize. I just misplaced my agenda But I believe the bill number Jim. Do you have the bill number there? 27 thank you very much S27 Jim took us through this bill. Oh, I think it was Last week when senator rom came in She suggested as we get going on it She's put forward a couple of witnesses couple of ideas So we reached out to those individuals and we'll be hearing from them today In addition to our work on literacy and school discipline I do see us starting to put together some kind of miscellaneous education bill and I'll look to the committee For the kinds of things that they would like in there, but this is certainly one idea I was thinking about putting this in with the library's bill as well as the bill that senator lions co-sponsored with senator hardy on just broadly Women's health in public schools So those are three things that I'm thinking about putting into a miscellaneous bill But of course, I look to all of you as we move forward. So Why don't we get started I'm not sure which of our two witnesses would like to Begin you're both on my agenda. So I don't know if two of you discussed Who would go first? Jesse Hello I We did not discuss this, but I am happy to kick things off if that's amenable to the committee. That would be terrific Great. Thanks for being with us. If you'll just introduce yourself for the record. I tell us a little bit about yourself and Give us your thoughts on s27 great Well, thank you senator campion and to the full committee for having me. Also. I need to say that Jeannie, I think maybe that's how you pronounce your name is lovely to work with and coordinate with so you have a really wonderful staff liaison My name is Jesse Baker. I am the city manager in Winooski I have served in this role for four years and I'm speaking today on behalf of myself as well as mayor lot Who unfortunately had a professional conflict today in her regular job? So thank you for having me and I'm I do have I'm sorry was not able to send it to you in advance But I do have a few comments to make first and then I'm happy to answer any questions if that's amenable That's fine. And just a reminder for committee members know that I do have my agenda in front of me This is facilitating cultural liaisons in schools and in municipalities and looking at that possible partnership Yeah So again, thank you for being invited to provide testimony today As 27 is introduced would as introduced would support Winooski's community-wide efforts to provide educational and municipal services in Culturally appropriate ways It would allow us to expand the ways in which we provide services to all community members and make sure all of our community members Had access to the services Provided as well as a voice at all decision-making tables and hopefully a seat at those tables as well Of course, I am biased but Winooski. I think it's a very special place as you likely know We are the only majority and minority school district in the state. We are also a single municipality school district Which is not Unique but is a unique is an advantage to us 18% of our residents were born in another country which we use as a placeholder for Limited English proficiency or English is not a first language Our community has been a welcoming community for decades open to new neighbors and we really see our diversity as among our biggest strategic advantages Under this legislation of past our ability to partner with our school district and jointly fund our community liaison roles Would be a huge benefit this idea first emerged in our community in 2018 and an equity summit we held with formal and informal leaders from across the city the school and other community partners Expanding those roles and having dollars beyond just educational fund dollars to support this work would allow us to maximize the resources We have to best serve our community It would allow us to provide those services and it's the most efficient way possible So through you know the individual community liaisons rather than multiple roles and multiple partners It would create livable wage jobs for the individuals doing this work now within the school district And it would allow us to expand those jobs to full-time year-round jobs Which of course these roles in our communities are so critical and really don't follow just the school calendar I Also just in wrapping up. I also wanted to note that while this has been a priority of ours for several years It has become more and more apparent through COVID-19 You know when you think about whose role is it to get out accurate information about COVID precautions or to inform neighbors about vaccination opportunities Or to communicate the importance of isolation and quarantine if tested positive It's really all of our roles. It's the state government obviously its municipalities its school districts A similar thing can be said about things like affordable housing access unemployment child care and public safety support Clearly all of those factors impact how children show up to school and need to be communicated to all of our residents However, they are also clearly critical to the healthy functioning of a municipality in a community So we would like the opportunity to help fund that and help coordinate Those efforts so they go beyond just the walls of the school and can reach out to the community as a whole Um Being able to share those resources and contribute to funding those resources only makes sense and will only strengthen our community So those are what I wanted to share and i'm happy to answer any questions the committee may have So i'm just wondering just to kick it off what so right now what is happening in and jesse you're uh with um You're with the schools or you're with the uh Town city manager the city manager i'm the city manager. So i'm the the municipal Equivalent to the school superintendent. Okay. So what's happening right now without this in place? What sorts of things? How are things getting done? So it's a great question. So right now our community liaisons in our school district Help communicate between the educational needs of our of our children and their families And often to be honest that spills over into city city Messaging as well. However when we as the city want to get word out to all of our community about A new service offered or a policy we're considering and invite those voices to the table We are either funding those Professionals in hours above what they are already working or we're hiring different professionals and different translators Who don't have the relationships with the families? Or honestly, we're just not doing it and we're not effectively reaching our neighbors So this would allow us to Again identify those full-time staff have them build relationships in the community and then send messages both on the education front and on the municipal front Questions other questions center Thank you. Thank you jesse I can see the need for this certainly in the schools and within the community so And you've mentioned that during the pandemic the need for it has been magnified Can you give some examples of where you've entered into some kind of a liaison with Certain communities during the either during the pandemic or at times where you as the community as a city have paid for these services Sure. Let me tell you about two different examples if I may One so as you likely know we when you ski had the first community spread outbreak of covet over the summer And as part of that outbreak and then against more recently in the winter We stood up morning huddles with vdh to make sure the vermont department of health to make sure first thing in the morning We were all on the same page about testing Access to transportation access to you know food support services so folks could maintain quarantine During the school was a part of the of that partnership and sat at that table because obviously they are significant community leaders as well And through that effort the community liaisons were able to Work with families that they knew to be in isolation and quarantine and ensure that they had the best access to services At that point we felt like that was an appropriate use of school funds to do that because again it was that ability for children to stay engaged in school and stay Stay participating in that virtual learning environment having said that it is a question about whether that is a municipal expense or a school expense Second example, I'd like to offer is that we are as part of these conversations at the city's level To improve how we are inclusive in our community We were recently successful at receiving a working communities challenge grant through the boston fed And as part of that process we wanted to identify ways we as the city could be more equitable in how we provide services Through that process. We actually contracted we the city Entered into individual contracts with the community liaisons Happen to be the community liaisons because they are the ones that had the relationship in the community And had them partner with us to do some of that initial planning work and bring their expertise to the fore But what that resulted in was those individuals having full-time jobs where they were providing services at the education level And then additionally doing this work for the city And if we had the opportunity to partner on that work then together we could build reasonable work plans that were supported by a living wage and equitable hours and what not rather than you know Going back to the same people time after time Thank you. Thank you other questions center hooker i'm wondering so In the city of rutherland in this. Oh, i'm sorry center alliance, please Thank you It's good to see you here today jesse and thanks for all the great work that you're doing You know, it's really evident. I I don't think people fully understand the Integrated network between school and and city it is it is really amazing when you look at the Newsletter that the school puts out. It's really a community newsletter and and so I have a difficult time when I'm reading it pulling up pulling things about Apart whether or not it's the city of wanooski or the school district and it's a good thing. So Um, the other one thing I will ask you is have you talked with the department of health at all about Any resources that are coming as a result of the federal funding past and december? And the availability there's going to be huge availability for the department of health to do translations Uh information and working with minority populations, and i'm just wondering It seems to me that this would be a perfect opportunity for your community liaison to work With those folks and put some things together, but that that's probably a step ahead of where you are right now, but Um, thank you center alliance and nice to see you as well. Um So we have worked with our with the vermont to help permanent of health. We still have these Monday, wednesday and friday huddles with them to ensure that our community both burlington and wanooski Are being equitably served by the services coming out of vdh, and they I will say they have been amazing partners Also at that table are the association of africans living in vermont us cri community command refugees and immigrants and uvm mc They so yes vdh has absolutely and our community liaisons are on those calls as well to ensure That they're getting the same messaging and able to push out through their networks the same information um They vdh has been an incredible support in ensuring that our community's needs are met and certainly we will continue to work with them on any new funding They get really to ensure Honestly that that funding is done by the communities not just to the communities But the members of my community who are Who for for whom's english is a second language are using their cultural expertise to be those health public health promoters um, not just You know people who look like me going to them with messaging Thank you Senator hooker and senator tarenzina. I'm wondering what this is there a need for this in ruttland given you know First of all, you know, this can be used anywhere. I'm just trying to i'm wondering what the rest of the state looks like in terms of needs Well, I'll try to address some of that. You as you know Four years ago. We had an off of an opportunity to have 25 Refugee families settle in in ruttland. We ended up with three families. I'm hoping that the opportunity is reopened So many things have happened since then where the borders were closed Um, at the city and in the country And i'm hoping that that's going to be There's going to be a change there, but I have to say that this type of Liaison would have been wonderful For the families that moved here. We did have help from the refugee resettlement for a while But that their funding was limited And so the families were essentially on their own And I have to give credit to the very devoted group of volunteers Who stepped in including one family that became surrogate grandparents And have made sure that the kids have gotten to school But they get to their doctor's appointments that the parents have been able to engage in English language classes One of the families has Was a You know, well, they've all moved into different houses, which is good You know, they started out in small apartments that one of our local landlords provided at a very very reasonable rate and then moved to more suitable apartments and then Finally two houses Two of them have their own but I think that this type of liaison would have been invaluable for them great Certainly not many of us in ruttland spoke syrian Or turkish or whatever they were speaking when they came Thankfully, we did have a few People who had been here For a while for quite some time who were from syria and they were able to step in as well But I have to give a lot of credit to people who have been tutors and Friends and helpers and movers Over the past four years Senator terezzini anything to add there? well You know, I I had put my hand up before you posed the question to my senator campion, but If you don't mind I'll ask now You know, I read the bill. I have it here my hand and to me. It's it's it's almost surprising that this has to come before The legislature, um, you know, I've served on School board and select board and so on and and to me it's almost like, you know, if you identify a need in your school district or community You you go out and take care of that need. I mean if you look at a school if you need to hire Another custodian or another bus driver or add a school nurse To me it's you do what you have to do to run the school or the business and to me if a if a community needed This position which Obviously not all vermont communities or school districts would need a liaison But obviously some do It just to me. I guess it's a little bit baffling that it's even here in our committee as to why You know, the law or the school district just doesn't hire What they need to operate the business The question, uh, kim, uh, I don't know. That wasn't a question. I guess it was just a statement Yeah, right. But I think it's it's an important one and I think it's it's It's a good reminder for all of us just to pause and ask jim Jim, this is you know, tell us again. What is this? This is allowing to happen that Well, um, so The statute that it's amending Uh required separation of municipal funding from education funding Okay, so it's unclear to me when you have a jointly funded position uh from municipal money and education money How that fits into the the separation that we have in statute So this is saying that not staying in that separation of statute school districts districts can do this They can jointly fund this position The same would be true for sROs Uh, we have a statute on sROs now, but it's not really enabling language. Um, so really sROs should fall into the same category of having an exception to this Uh division because that's totally funded too Uh, so come And that's not done so far in statute. I think it should be done. But uh, this is making it clear Now extending separation This position can be jointly funded by by school districts and its boundaries So right now sROs school resource officers are a combination of funds municipal funds and school funds generally Yes, but there's no permissible language in statute. Uh, we're doing here So it's unclear to me whether or how that fits of challenge in court. So this would Prevent I think having that kind of challenge for the position center per slick thank you Jim on that point And I think I asked this question before when we first went to the bill and I can't remember the answer Sorry, and that is with the excess spending Limitation, so this just allows them to joint fund it But does it define it whether it is an education expense or a municipal expense as far as things like the excess spending limit that a meanest school district this bill here does not go into uh Excess spending so you could go further and say the cost Uh to the school district of funding this coastal liaison position It's not counted for excess spending you could develop and that's how this bill goes now Yeah, I think that would be a good thing to add any other questions Senator Chittenden so on this point and maybe it's not a time to discuss when we have witnesses here But one question I'm gonna have for you Jim is is there in the language or is it precedent? Is there precedent for having? Qualifying conditions meet for when this can take it take effect. And does that then make it easier to Um abide by the current statutory language for example, if we have a town that is the town with the uh with large number of Communities that need additional services like these that that would trigger the ability to do this And then it wouldn't allow for blurring of town and school funding in other cases No, the case to be made Substitutively for having the position doesn't go to The issue of separation of funding So so you have a statute that says finding should we separate but it doesn't define municipal services Doesn't define education spending So you really don't know what that Know what it means So this approach here that I've taken in terms of statute is to be careful that we don't violate that separation any other questions And then center person we can certainly consider your your point once we uh do mark up, but I think it's You know it's an interesting one center person Do you have any other final anything you want to say before we know move to the next witness? I know you're a cosponsor of the bill Yeah, no, well, I think I what I said last time we took it up is that I was just When we did the tour the education committee did a tour last year of wanooski school And we met the first thing we did was sit in a room with I think five or four of the cultural asons and they each explained what they did and It was very eye-opening and impressive and so based on that experience if there's other towns or even wanooski Just so they can do more of it. Yeah, it would be as supportive as possible. Great Thank you Terrific Jesse, thank you Aaron McGuire mrs. McGuire you were with the ramon council and special education administrators and you're here to also testify on this And we have before you have seen me before. Thank you for having me I actually would like to amend the title i'm using to testify here today a little bit and Articulate that i'm here as the director of equity and inclusion for the sx westford school district So representing sort of another school district in the state while next door to wanooski to speak to this need I also serve as co-director of student support services and interestingly as i've been listening to the testimony It feels relevant to maybe touch the importance of how we use funds and how when we have Significant separation of funds and what they can and cannot be used for It actually has significant impact on practice and how we engage with people as we implement services that's true in special education where There's been some requests to look at some more flexibility of how we use those funds to be able to serve more students As opposed to being really rigid based on how we spend those funds I also for this committee's information serve as the president of the council of administrators of special education at the national level And so do hold an amount of expertise related to special education That doesn't apply as much here just for your information But really come to you today as a school district that is working very hard on a nine component equity plan that incorporates really significantly community and school district engagement around issues of equity Making sure that we are collaborative in our community Toward these efforts and it feels important to share that in order to address the issues For many populations including refugees and immigrants and people who are multi linguistic In their diversity status that we have what we need to support them not only in our schools But also in our community Essex has embarked on a recent project to bring Some of the equity work into our community and so we've been meeting really regularly with our municipality And we are lifting up a an equity committee that is designed of both the school district and the municipality And the ability to do work together toward these efforts is enhanced by a bill like this to make sure that For example, you know if we were to say well, we need this and you need this and we'll fund this and you'll fund this With this kind of statute it makes it so that that person can only do this with these hours and only do that with those hours And what we know is people and children are whole They're not sometimes school and sometimes community. It's a whole student a whole family and our cultural liaisons are critical components of our support structure in our school district They are not currently employed by our municipality But as we have moved into equity work in a In a collaborative way to make sure that we're focusing on a sense of inclusion and belonging in our community as well as in our school district There have been circumstances where I've reached into our translators and cultural liaisons to say Can you go do some part time work for the municipality to translate this or to support this focus group or to try to Gather feedback from members of the community who speak a different language Or speak multiple languages so that we can make sure to have their voices at the table And where we have funding structures that limit our collaboration between schools and communities It makes me wonder about what exactly that is for And why is it that we would want that given that we talk consistently about the importance of the collaboration between schools and our communities and really desiring collaborative leadership going forward So I do think that you know making sure that we are able to be collective and not just collaborative in our impact by co-funding positions in ways that describe what the position will do But not limiting when that happens or which time sheet gets submitted or Who pays what that we're able to be supportive of people I think to jessie's point having people be full-time Increasing in the number of people that we have available to do this very very critical work That has impact for families both as it relates to their community access and their school district makes very good sense for me and I can I do wonder What other opportunities might exist in this space? So I know we're in a very sort of limited scope as we have a conversation about s27 on this topic And it just it makes me wonder and I've been wondering this as I've been a partner with the s6 municipality Both s6 junction and and s6 town in thinking forward together What might be possible if this limitation didn't exist? And you know sometimes structures do create limitation that don't necessarily Help us forward and so I do think this is one that is worth looking at worth considering I understand the importance of being clear about how we're spending tax dollars Of course, that's important. It's important that we're able to be articulate about that It's important that we are able to be held accountable to those issues But assuming accountability has to mean separation. I think is an important question for us to be asking about this particular topic. I think Without reiterating everything Jesse said, I'll just say that I completely agree from the school district perspective in another community That that this has a real benefit and it is interesting to me that we've already been doing this within the context of sROs And yet it requires Action from the legislature for cultural liaisons I I just sort of came upon that as I was listening to this conversation And that's an interesting observation. I think to be made so With that happy to offer any answers to questions that you may have The testimony any any questions that's senator lions, please I don't actually have questions. I just wanted to say thank you to erin We in our county. I think senator chitin and I both know How really effective you have been The the combination of winewski and Essex being here today is Super it's really amazing. Thank you both and erin It's outstanding what you're doing. It's terrific. Thank you. Thank you senator lions. I appreciate that Terrific senator hooker, please Thank you. Thank you. Um, thank you erin I'm curious to know jesse. You mentioned making these positions full time Who would they be working for? You know, does that have to be a decision that's made up front? I mean, where does there I I know that the the funding would be mixed but Who would they be Responsible to or Who would their authority be Senator her car I hear that question maybe for jesse jesse. Do you want to go ahead and respond? Well, yeah I think that is better situated to respond because winewski has ventured forward Further than Essex into this opportunity and I'm really looking forward to exploring it more as I I learn more about what they're doing So hearing that from jesse would be helpful for me too Sure. Thank you My perspective on that is that it would be up to the community to decide who held primary authority and then document as we do with us using the sro example document through Memorandum of understanding or a shared services agreement that's executed between both elected bodies school board and city council How that cost would be split? So for example using the sro model The sro is a winewski sworn winewski police officer who is Assigned to the school district during school hours. He is our employee. He carries our certification and per our executed agreement between the city council and school committee We have an understanding of how that cost is shared in this example I would imagine it would work in reverse in winewski because that expertise started at the school and that the need for ensuring that parents and children and teachers are connected is primary, you know ensuring that that that Information is shared that those services are As accessed as appropriately as possible would be the primary expertise and then they would contract back with the city I would agree with that too. Jesse. I think that because our cultural liaisons are Situated presently in our school district that that would likely be the case and I don't at this point see the readiness for our our municipal partner to be Hiring the majority of the position necessarily at this point but more An extension of the role out into the community from the district where that design was created to begin with Yeah, okay, and so my understanding is that this bill would just enable communities to do this and you'd have to go to the voters in order to get their consent to Mix these funds and hire these positions Or would it just be part of the approved budget? I understood that it would be part of the approved budget. So for example when I present my budget around equity and Support for English language learners that we are thinking about this as part of our budget and then expressing The intent to create a memorandum of understanding for example for the remainder of the position With the municipality and that they would be having that same conversation. I think for me the the Real impetus here is to make sure that we're not controlling what people can do with their hours at any given time And it's truly a collaborative effort Right. I mean we can hire someone in the school district and then they can go and work for the municipality for the rest of their day There, you know, there's nothing that stops some of those like designs now It's just that this kind of statute Limits what you can do in a truly collaborative way With a whole person and a whole position around a whole family Recognizing that you're meeting both needs at one time and suddenly have this need to kind of Bifurcate your work in some way because it's school and then community Senator cairnsy I was just going to say that how miss baker described the MOU between the school district and the municipality for an sro program. That's exactly how We did it in my local municipality And it makes a lot of sense how it works. It's clean. It's it's transparent You know where the funding is coming from and it seems like that would work in a position like this in my opinion If it if it was legal and I would defer to jim of course for that, but It's terrific any other questions center alliance, please Yeah, a question came to mind for each of you and that is as As you have the liaison the the work going on Is it possible or have you documented some of the benefits to the community? so over time it would seem to me it would save You know money let's you know, that's always the bottom line but also save some of the social concerns the the substance use issues that we see in our communities and And then the acceleration of some of these folks into educational work that they might not otherwise have Been able to get get to or gain so Is do you do you keep any outcomes based Records or do you have any evidence for how effective This has been And I I I don't know the answer to that I speculate That there's a lot of good data out there, but I don't and I don't know how you capture it given the type of position Thank you center lines for that question It's a great question. I think that So first of all, I should say that I would encourage you to reach out to our superintendent or our director of ELL services and when you ski I'm sure they track data on the Time that the liaisons work on different things and I'm sure they have more specific examples for you I think from the city side perspective or my perspective Um One it is I think these positions do save money ultimately in other state services Not needed to be accessed because people are receiving the right level of service at the right time I also think quite frankly it Elevates people's engagement with their own lives and their engagement with their own capacity and long-term Contributions to the community. Um, so I think it's as much about saving money as it is about increasing community involvement and fulfilling of one's own Own destiny. I think for on a data side what I can share is that This isn't a direct correlation, but I think it is a contributing factor For both of our covet outbreaks our covet outbreak in May and June and our covet outbreak in december and january Our numbers in our LEP communities are limited english proficiency communities spiked And we brought in the community partners the people who had relationships in community and were being paid to do these These jobs and you see a precipitous decline So you see that when you insert the service in a language that is accessible to folks Things improve very quickly. Um, so that's the one kind of data point. I will share And yeah, that's that's that's amazing actually, uh, and then Um, it would be interesting to look at any, um, police related issues, you know, reduced Engagement with public safety law enforcement in a negative way, but you know, thank you Great anything else any other comments or questions? Okay, not seeing anything. Uh, miss baker. Ms. McGuire. Thanks so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. It's an important topic And certainly sounds like it can uh, this bill could be a real asset to to your communities without a doubt So, um, if we have any additional questions, uh, or if we make any adjustments, please if you Be willing just to continue to track our work. Um And we also know that the two of you are are there and ready to work with us Which is great. Thank you. Thanks for your time. Thank you Perfect committee, we are now moving, uh, as we know, uh, our educational landscape in vermont Has public schools Home schools our academies independent schools. So we've we've not heard, uh Anything yet, uh from milmore mr. Moore. It's great to see you Thank you for inviting us in senator. Well, I appreciate, uh, you, uh Being in touch and you are all certainly play an important role in the lives of The education of many vermonters and so we're we're grateful for you to come in and and just give us Starting with an overview of your work. Um, the kinds of things we might partner with you on and and Also where you're seeing things as it relates to covet right now in our independent institutions And the other thing I know that we're going to be hearing afterward, uh, and uh, drew how do I pronounce your last name? I'm your muted drew We still can't hear you drew. Um It's pronounced great injure. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, mr. Great injure is here with mr. Moore and we'll be adding, uh Possibly adding testimony if we we end up hearing from him Can you hear me now? Now we can yes, correct. Yeah, thank you And we're mr. Great injures is specifically going to respond to s 16 the school discipline bill, uh The lack of a better title at this point After mr. Demare takes us through our new version but first mr. Moore Thank you senator. Good afternoon senators on the committee. Uh, thanks for the opportunity to come in and introduce ourselves Uh, the vermont independent schools association is the advocacy group analogous to the other educational stakeholder groups that represents the independent schools community, which Overall, uh, educates about one in every 10 students in grades k through 12 in vermont I've got a two two slides that I'd like to show you by a way of giving you an overview Uh, this is always an adventure when you try to share screens. So here goes Well says the host has disabled my screen sharing He needs in a bad mood today. I think she's just not going to He's never in a bad mood actually Oh, that's not true, but I was busy doing something else. I'm sorry. Just give me a minute. No need to apologize So mr. Moore you are now co-host you can share your document. Let me know if you need help All right, uh Let's see here. I've got too much on my screen now. Let me see if I can figure out What's going on? Okay, I hope folks can see That at the top of the screen it says vermont independent schools 126 schools 800 students That's the the summary but i'm going to start from the bottom and work my way up So across the bottom row there are uh Three dozen general purpose schools that enroll About half of the total around 4,800 students another what I term special purpose schools Most of them are the winter sports academies Uh around 500 students Then there's a cluster of the religious schools, which I know have been much on your minds lately A dozen of the roman catholic schools and other seven other schools affiliated with other denominations They total out to 19 schools on the next row with a couple thousand students So we're moving up to that next row Beginning to summarize. We've got the approved religious schools. These are schools with state approval Approved general education schools total. That's the special purpose schools plus the general purpose schools And these are all schools that meet the approval requirements established by the state board of education Then off on the left side Is that orange box and this is the one that drew will be able to speak to better than I because he leads therapeutic special education school There's 31 of those with about 800 students These are students whose disabilities are so serious that they Are no longer able to be served adequately in their original home school location So they are now being served in a school that is operated With facilities and programs expressly designed to meet those serious disabilities To the next level up there are recognized schools versus approved schools If a school chooses not to meet the standards imposed by the state board of education Then it is classified as a recognized school every school in vermont has to be Either recognized or approved to be recognized the school has to report once a year To the state board to the state agency of education rather and report its enrollment So that students will not be held prudent If they're not on the record someplace is actually attending school So overall looking at this picture what you see is something that's very different from the public schools community You see a much wider diversity of educational philosophies. You see a much wider diversity of missions and purposes And you see the divergence between the approved and the recognized schools So I when I'm speaking about the independent schools community generally There's a lot going on and I encourage you To avoid adopting assumptions based on your experience with the public schools When you're approaching the independent schools community because it operates Rather differently and the most fundamental difference is that all of the attendance at these schools is voluntary Everybody in the independent school has chosen to be there And that really affects a lot of the management and operation of the schools from the The management side and also the attitude of those who are in the schools because they have chosen to be there They are not there involuntarily They are there because they've made that distinct choice that that is the position the location best for them Now i'm going to see if I can remember how to unshare And go back to where I belong There we are That is the basic overview Schools are scattered all over the state As you might expect there are More in the population centers such as Burlington or Rutland and St. Johnsbury But you're going to find independent schools in some pretty out-of-the-way places so it's It's a community that's diverse and it's geographically well dispersed around Vermont So that mr. Chairman, this is the brief overview Shall I go on now and talk about s61 Um, do you mean s16 just 16? Excuse me. I just wanted to make sure Any questions on independent schools? Yes, please senator chinden I was listening But could you give me a better idea maybe with not example names but example reasons? Why would a school choose to be only recognized and not approved? What are those what are the the driving distinction between not going through that approval process? Could be cost it could be a desire to avoid government oversight There are some religious schools that that certainly feel that way they want to keep the government at some distance from their From their school and from their philosophy Those are the two principle reasons the reason principle reason for wanting to be involved are two Wanted to be approved are two one is It's an indication to families that are choosing that school that the school has met some standards And second it makes the schools eligible to receive public funds from Tuitioning districts if they're near a district, of course in some parts of the state There are no nearby Tuitioning districts where as in other parts of the state there are quite a few My follow-up and not necessarily a question But I would love guidance from either a gym or the chair where I could better understand what that what questions and what How rigorous that approval process is and what kind of questions and certifications are occur when when a school is approved But maybe that's for it. It is all written into statute. It's in 16 vsa 166 b And we can get that for you senator chint and that's something that Mr. Demeray If jim's willing in the next few days If not, I'm happy to also hold that up Mr. Moore one question I had So is it safe to say though all of our schools? Approved whatever their their sort of status independence Everybody's faculty are all getting fbi background checks everybody, you know health checks in terms of Of what you know is you know the what the kitchen is looking like that kind of general stuff Yes, okay. Thank you. And where do our our academies fall in this? I'm sorry if I missed that Well, that's just an informal term of art senator campion. They're all independent schools But the term town academies is often used and that refers to schools that In a particular location have made a commitment To do all the things that a public school would do in addition to whatever other mission They feel is important An example of that would be bern burton academy in bennington county or st johnsbury academy Or thetford academy We have both elementary schools and high schools That fulfill that and and by the the chief things that they have to do to To qualify in that role is have an open admissions program usually applies to their home district And meet stay approval standards, of course provide special education senator hooker Just a quick question on whether or not recognized schools are able to Take public funds for tuition. No, they are not Is there a difference between recognized and approved schools and their abilities to take public funds? Yeah, yeah, that's substantial that recognized schools are not eligible for public funds You're not just just wanted to clarify that. Thank you. That's a good question senator chin So to senator campion you asked about the the health and safety the inspections like the food and kitchens Those do apply those those certifications or those processes are happening with the unrecognized schools Is that what I heard you say no those do not apply to recognize schools. They apply to approved schools Oh, thank you for that clarification senator chin and I was under the impression that everybody At least had no matter what school FBI background check health inspection and that's not the case That's not the case Somebody could open a very small school not wanted approved The children Go to that school every day and some of those kinds of those those things are not required That was established by a supreme court opinion back in 1923 Any other questions? Thank you very much Mr. Moore good to see you and we are going to move into s16 We uh worked on s16 Was it just a couple days ago? Yes center alliance, please I didn't know if um drew great injure was going to be talking about um the specific category of school Yes, I was asked to come and speak specifically about therapeutic schools. Oh terrific. Thank you. I did not know that Why don't we do that? That's okay, or we move into s16? All right. Thanks for the opportunity I know it's friday afternoon Last time I testified I think I almost passed out cookies and coffee because I know it gets It gets long. So I appreciate you being here And representing our great state and allowing us to speak So i'm drew great anger. I'm the head of school for kindle farm And we're a division of windham and winzers county's Designated agency hcrs There are roughly 30 uh therapeutic schools in vermont And about half of them are vermont care partners designated agency schools And the other half are approved independent schools together We serve about 800 students And these are the kids that need our help the most these are the kids whose districts Have spent a great deal of time and money And the iep process trying to support their kids in house as they should least restrictive environment And after a great deal of effort have determined that that's not working for the student and then we are Our therapeutic schools are an option for these iep and 504 students So what a privilege it is to to go above and beyond for these most needy kids. It's it's been my mission I've been here 25 years And what a privilege and I I did a little research You know almost all of you have uh some of these schools in your county in washington county of maple hill choice academy In ruttland you have howard centers fey hunting knop and chitin din you have the baird center gene garvin and center point So you probably know us one way or another Today I was able to listen uh to the secretary of education And I don't think anyone Needs a lesson That covet is wreaking havoc on our kids A large majority of our kids are not in school full time. Some are not in school at all The vast majority of therapeutic schools Are in person Working five days a week Because our kids need it our ratios are high. We have high staff to student ratio And we're nimble and flexible and this is kind of what we do Uh, and that's because our students are at the most risk of this pandemic. They have established disabilities mental health history acute developmental and educational needs And then you compound this with the fact that at least at kindle farm 78 of our kids are on free and reduced lunch And I think that's likely true for the vast majority of of our schools Which make food security an issue internet access an issue and parents challenged with Paying phone bills having internet Driving kids where they need to go At kindle farm, which I believe, you know represents many of us in-person learning is the priority To get these guys both emotionally behaviorally and academically Going through this pandemic And we're able to deliver on this mission pretty fun Our ratios at least at kindle farm are one adult for three kids and classroom density During covid's an obvious hurdle. So this pandemic has really challenged us all Transportation for most of our schools are on these seven person mini vans Which used to be able to have five or so kids now. We're talking a max of two kids Wearing PPE We thought would be horrible on kids. They were so excited to come back That that wearing masks was not a giant issue But it does get in the way for kids with sensory issues Kids ability to read facial expression and a lot of things they typically Used to ameliorate some developmental disabilities and things like that We also see kids during the pandemic weaponizing the masks bodily fluids And things like that because we're all we're all afraid of of getting covid And for kindle farm in order to bring all our students in We had to create an entirely new program starting in july and be ready in september Three fifths of our kids are off campus either in our farm In the community or we have one day distance learning so that they can practice those skills in the case that we had to go Virtual that's been going really well But let me be really clear Our staff are mission driven in all these schools and we're excited to serve our students in person Because and they're often resistant to school But most of our students are pretty eager to get back after six months. I think sometimes you don't know What you've got till it's gone As an administrator We're really dealing with covid fears both for kids families and staff You know, we serve 15 districts in seven counties and two states so we're really Got a a wide geographic swath coming into the school and so If that were to have an outbreak that would go out to a wide a wide distribution and and that's a little scary And our therapeutic role necessitates close proximity Because we have to be aware of students These kids are often sent to us because they're not safe in their environment And so we have to be close to to ensure safety And then also for reading writing because that's often difficult for our kids In occupational therapy type schools and despite this our therapeutic schools are not labeled 1a in the vaccinations And i'm really on other avenues Really trying to advocate for these special schools To get vaccinated because we are Right in the heart of all that You know, but we do see even our students with all our goods suffer in the most because they some of our kids don't attend But we're able to as a nimble school do house visits and send our staff Right to the communities where they are And we're so good at positive reinforcement and and reward and and really trying to get kids engaged But we are seeing high incidents of crisis calls truancies And parents pulled in so many directions that that schooling isn't their top priority So, you know in the end all those challenges aside therapeutic schools are providing in-person services at the emotional educational level And reducing the negative effects of cova 19 on on these kids who need it most We're able to relieve families of having their children navigate distance learning We're really supporting food insecurity and developing the whole child during a time of disconnect We're primed to connect advocate and build relationships. And I think one of the things That's some colleagues wanted me to say is you know this intervention that's happening right now in real time really is able to stem larger costs of residential treatment adjudication and and all the costs associated with kids Not getting these basic needs met and not learning these new skills so what a privilege it is to to be working at one of these schools and Thanks for taking a little time to hear about it the last time I presented at the educational committee Most of the committee was not aware that these therapeutic schools Were kind of lumped into independent schools as a whole And so even though i'm president of visa and an active member for independent schools I I also have a role in kind of distinguishing the needs of the therapeutic community From from some of the other schools. And so I appreciate the time Thank you very much senator alliance Uh, thank you that you know that that's really very helpful. Um The question I have is how How the schools are Supported, you know, where does the money come from basically? Obviously, it's at the baird center. Um, and so there's a significant amount of Public dollars that goes into the that whole Area, so maybe you could just talk a little bit about the funding streams I can speak to that pretty well So if you're a designated agency one of those 14 schools, you're able to Get medicaid uh in a different way from the rest of the schools Um, so we're able to kind of farm we're able to leverage a little bit of medicaid Other schools use a cert rate and almost their entire Uh funding or a large part of their funding can come from The mental health side of things for the other schools And and for kindle farm too, it's tuition to the local district. So the districts have to go to their town Predict how many kids are out of out of placement and get approved in the budget That's that's true for kindle farm and a vast majority of those schools Um in their special ed town budgets So there's a two kind of revenue streams there Thank you Um, how many students i'm wondering of those 800 students are some of those residential students coming from out of state Maybe new hampshire or massachusetts where students are being placed Hmm, that's a good question. I uh, I do not know the answer to that So right now you have day students. Is that what you have there? We at kindle farm is only day students Uh, the vast majority of us are only day students, but I don't think all Uh, and now that the retreat has closed. There's a lot of pressure down here to expand services Uh and kind of make up for that for that loss What about the bennington school? Uh, is that uh considered therapeutic? That's a girl's school now It used to be a coed uh residential I would say maybe quasi therapeutic I think mil can speak better to to out of state and and the bennington school than I can yeah, it used to be the bennington school It is it's now called the vermont school for girls It is a residential program And it is a special ed program Okay, thank you Other question. Oh, I can also add to your question senator about People coming in from across state lines. There is a fair amount of that that goes on up and down the connecticut river valley special education students coming into vermont At various points In the valley, uh, there's a there's a lot of special ed money flowing both ways Between vermont and new hampshire and somewhat less between vermont and massachusetts One quarter of our students are from uh new hampshire, but it's just a day program Thank you Any other questions Okay So, uh, mr. Moore is the vermont school for girls part of the independent school system or is it Function of the state and is the funding different from kindle farm Um, it is an independent school. It's part of our association Some of their placements are made by dcf girls who Are in the children in need of supervision Uh Found to be that way through the court system Others are placed as special ed placements And so they would be paid for by tuition from their district Yes, okay. Thank you Thank you. I do want to just go ask jim if you don't mind jim dimaray I know we were talking about Recognized schools not having to need background checks, but i'm thinking Uh 16 vsa 255 might actually require um Recognized but not approved independent schools unique background checks, but i'm Wondering if you could just check that for me Sure. Yep Uh You can get back to us. I just want to make sure that throughout You know the state uh at least But it does read it does read, uh superintendents headmasters Recognized or approved independent schools In their contracts to show request criminal record checks. So okay, so everybody seems to cover them. Yep That's good to hear. I saw everyone's face kind of blank when they thought there might be a carve out it including mine Yeah, so I was mistaken on that But that's that's okay. I've been mistaken about half a dozen times today. So No problem at all. Um Any other questions? Terrific. Well, thank you. Uh, we will now move on to s 16 And uh, I'm thinking perhaps the the best way to Uh to do this is to first hear from um I know that there's a time limit with one of our one of our witnesses So perhaps what we can do is have uh Our two witnesses drew and milled just talk a little bit about their thoughts on S 16 the school discipline advisory council And then what we'll have is as a committee we'll have uh jim go through the new draft that we worked on since I think um We didn't really touch much on the independent school language in The original bill. So if the two of you would given also that you have some time constraints, uh If you both would like to weigh in that would be much appreciated Sure, I will start and I just have a brief thing and then I'll ask drew to pick up after that um We would like to have in the bill a requirement that uh an independent school representative be named to the council Actually two representatives one from a general ed School perspective and one from the special ed schools Uh independent schools are required to uh report as as you know and probably will be required under whatever Measures the agency of education chooses to to take in compliance with this proposed bill So we think that the independent community needs to be represented here The special ed schools have uh additional More intense and different kinds of school dismissal Issues to deal with and so that's why i'm asking that they also be represented and that's up to drew to explain Thank you Well, it's interesting I'm i'm going to advocate that a therapeutic school be be one of those Schools because they have they have the experience Uh working with kids with trauma and knowing the effects of trauma building relationships They have access to the mental health resources and coordination Uh, and they are championing restorative practices and community integration It's also really interesting to think when I read the bill You know, we do occasionally Suspend a child for a day or two When they've been physically unsafe for um In by public school standards You know Pretty pretty high level And it's not of punishment, but to Have a A team approach with the parents the therapist Understanding what it is And how to come back and work with the child so I just think that a therapeutic school would would offer a lot of perspective on on their practices and Best practices in general So that's just a little point of advocacy. I'm I'm pretty excited about the bill. I think it's great Any committee questions or comments for our two witnesses On s16 or anything else that they they've already mentioned or discussed Let's see no hands I want to thank you both very much for taking the time to come in today It was great for overview as well as testimony on s16 And uh, please continue to watch our work and at any point that you want to weigh in I hope you'll love reach out to genie or me or a member of the committee Thank you so much for your time senators. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you committee. Thank you Many why don't we just take a 10 minute break? We'll come back at 235 And at that point i'll uh, jim will go through our new version of s16. Thank you Everybody had a good break s16. I just I genie was Kind enough to email around to everybody so that you have it fresh right in front of you Hoping that Mr. Demeray will now take us through this this new draft knowing that we will have additional changes, of course, um, but Hopefully this will move us In the direction of where people feel most comfortable. So with that jim take it away. Okay So Sure try to screen share this. We'd like that on screen too. Uh, that's I mean, I have it right in front of me I does everybody have it anybody need it up on the screen No, but I do have a question on what's draft please Is the draft that that genie just sent out different than the draft that was posted to our committee page Like is that a yet another new draft? No, it's identical. It should be absolutely identical. Okay. Is that correct? Yeah It was just the one change You know our one meaning. Um, I I didn't make any changes. I don't think anybody else recommended any changes So I believe they're both exactly the same. So yeah, thank you. Good question Okay So for the record, hi jim Demeray this console. We're going through your strike all amendment to s 16 Um The language and the findings has not changed. So I'll skip by those unless you want to go through findings Um section two on page four is where the changes begin um, and what this does is if Incorporate secretary french's recommendation with some of the elements from Senator Sears original bill um I will say that the secretary french's recommendations Are the same recommendations that were made by the racial equity task force So to the extent of the task force recommendations are brought into a bill They're much broader than just education. They're across different A policy or yes, you will see be seeing similar language or you might be seeing similar language elsewhere um Yeah, so Just to clarify. So you said they are they are the it's the same language the race same language Secretary french presented and what The racial task force presented are the same. Thank you What you've done is a bit different because you're combining that concept with some of Senator Sears concepts. I see So on on page four uh line five Uh, this is now session law not going into statute and being codified Um, there is created the task force on school discipline reform Uh, the task force for shell in connection with the agency of education Make recommendations to end suspensions and expulsions to offer the most serious student behavior I pause there. That is from secretary french and from the racial equity task force And then going on from there and collect the analyzed data is coming from uh, senator sears bill that says and collect and analyze data relevant uh, regarding school discipline in vermont public improved independent schools in order to inform Decision playing guide statewide and local decision making in resource allocation And measure the effect of statewide and local policies and practices Uh, the membership is composed of secretary Let's just pause there for a moment. Uh, see if anybody has any questions At this point or concerns anything that they want to raise. I mean the only thing that jumps out to me is uh, make recommendations to us End suspensions and expulsions for all but the most serious student behaviors You know, I could see a question on the floor for a definition of what those what those behaviors are and uh, I don't know if There's a way or uh to uh You know explain that or or if it's important to leave it broad like that I believe this bill goes on to require a definition of those behaviors. Thank you very much. Uh, and it doesn't I think I might if it doesn't you can add that so Thank you, Jim um membership of the task force uh, is the secretary of education And not more than 20 members appointed by the secretary of education We shall be vermont residents and shall be educators administrative tours high school students special educators tours parents or students school board members and members of community groups working in areas of racial justice in school discipline reform You should probably pause their membership before pausing when we go to the next diversity requirement It says the secretary shall seek and making appointments to the task force racial diversity in membership The answer will include reps of public and approved independent schools to the point raised earlier And that's where you could add if you chose to include in therapy of schools Senator ternsey Thank you, uh, mr. Chair. Um, if we could go back to page for under that section two And I'm still I apologize to me because I'm still really learning You know the bill language and so on but The version i'm looking at now, which genie genie sent out versus what we had This would be the most up-to-date version that would be submitted for the committee to vote on and then Moved on to the senate to vote on correct Yeah, I mean just for clarification. I'm not sure if this helps but uh, we wouldn't be voting on this today What I anticipate is right more edits more changes And maybe if things were to work out maybe later next week, we might get to something that we would send to the floor So one thing that I didn't see in the first version that's in the second version Is under that section two My idea or my idea this concept was to form a study committee for the next couple of years to look at the data and analyze it Now if i'm reading this correctly under section two it is saying The task force the task force shall in conjunction with the agency of education Make recommendations to end suspensions and expulsions for all but most serious student behaviors Why is I guess we heard that as testimony, but why would that be in the bill? And and it's almost like we're declaring That the task force shall Um make recommendations to end suspensions wouldn't we want them to make that determination? I just don't understand why it's in here does that make sense Yes, center person Yeah, no, it totally makes sense I think it's it's a very logical question and the reason like that I wanted to have it in there is because There have already been several task force if you want to call them Or looks at this and they've said that these expulsions And suspensions are are detrimental basically and that's like What the secretary of education on his professional opinion seem to be agreeing that we do need to move to that But instead of just saying in the law, you know, you shall end them We don't know where the line is because there's definitely some serious Behavior where you'd want a suspension and we're saying In general these have not been helpful So figure out where that line is and how do you how do you get there from where we are now where we use them to where we Don't use them and so it seems like we are saying we're agreeing with the studies that have been done That they're not helpful Or we want this task force to figure out how to get there Instead of because I just don't think another task force to look at it Is necessary at this point seems like all the ones that have looked at it have said it's it's not a good practice Uh center lines, did you want to weigh in on that? Okay, right? Yeah, no, I so do we want to say something like that like uh Something about the previous task forces and this one is to take the step the next step I believe those are the findings are ready. It is the findings. So Senator Tarantini, does this help? But it helps. I just think that maybe I'll hold more of my Thoughts for now and we can let jim continue on and maybe we can revisit I don't I don't exactly know what the proper procedure is when you when you're this close to a bill if there's a Debate amongst the committee or or whatever, but I can hold my thoughts for now Okay, if you want to hold them for now, but we can always we can always stop and pause and have have discussions senator hooker Were you going to say something Just said in our previous discussions We talked about not wanting to wait two years for the task force to come up with recommendations And I think senator pertulent pointed out that you know, there are other studies that the task force can Look at to implement, you know start implementing The process and still collect data. I think certainly that was my Concern was that the data would continue to be collected So that we could see that they're What kind of an effect any of these changes had? Yeah, okay Jim Okay, so I guess I now have a question on that because it says that they'll make recommendations to end suspensions So who are they making recommendations to? Report there. Yeah, but the report would come to you yeah So I think that's you know to senator taranzini's point if If the recommendations Are just recommendations and not ending the These you know tools you want to call them that and they're still of that opportunity If you're concerned about that good point Okay, let's keep let's continue. Well, let's just talk first About membership and then I think some of this hopefully we might at the end Might make us feel a little bit better as we go forward Maybe some of the concerns that are being raised Still will be concerns, but As it relates to membership, how do senators feel about that? The size the makeup I guess I looked at some senator taranzini We're at the bottom of page four senator campion for clarification. That's correct Yeah, I guess I once again asked the the question I I mean we did it looks like we really did Consolidate quite a bit from version one to this i'm correct, but I once again, I guess I just I don't know if it's a deal breaker in my eyes, but to have high school students on it once again I'll make the same comment I made about having parents of students that have been suspended I just don't know. I mean Obviously in my opinion a high school student could be biased that They're not in favor of suspension and they're not and so I just don't know if there's Value in that and this comes from a person who was a student school board member and I appreciate student involvement greatly But in a decision of discipline, I don't know if there's I don't know if there that's the right seat for a high school student to be sitting at is all i'm saying In this case in jim, uh, correct me, uh on this, but are we requiring that You know, we're saying 20 members appointed by the secretary of education So yeah, so be vermont residents and Representation from each of these groups Up so 20 members so you would have special educators parents of students just general parents of students right, uh High school students now in this draft. I haven't read beyond but is this students high school students that have experienced expulsions and Suspensions or just high school students It's a draft. It's just high school students. So it's like students. Okay. All right um center lines So two things um, I think somehow saying something about balanced representation from the following Would be helpful Yeah, that and then but the other thing is you know So I can understand what senator taranzini is saying that There might be some bias on the part of high school students But in my experience there are also some high school students who have actually taken over and developed a judicial process to evaluate and to put in place some disciplinary Rules so You know, if you select the right group, uh, they may have some more Some creative ideas about not not so much This kind of discipline is bad or that kind of discipline is bad but rather Uh a framework and a process to put in place within a school Uh that would engage the students in a different way. So Just something to think about Yeah, it's it's an interesting point. Um It's uh Yeah, something you can Yes, senator Just to try to bring this to some moving forward point I would say the language yesterday completely agrees senator taranzini It was too narrow with the type of high school student that had an incident I like this because it really empowers the board the secretary of education to find the right high Schoolers that will help contribute and get us to the the the actual objective where we are So I think it's vague enough that it'll be a well-suited high school student And not necessarily that narrow pigeoned whole specific student with an experience that was in the yesterday version You know for new senators and even returning I I I can't answer this question How will the secretary of education go about finding high school students jim usually I mean on other committees, for example, we for natural resources and i'm sure health and welfare Uh center lines might be able to help us with this, you know, I how do they usually, you know, they're usually Quite specific some of the studies for natural resource and energy, but this is pretty broad How does the secretary and maybe this is a question for the secretary? I think it is I mean the secretary meets with the uh, so-called b you saw the How the advocacy groups every week and I would imagine he tap into them and say you give me some recommendations, but That's a to him to answer. Yeah. No, I just just curious about that a little bit center lines. We're gonna weigh in No, okay Okay So we're gonna go on to page five line six About powers and duties So again, it says task force shall Make recommendations and suspensions and expulsions For all but the most serious student behaviors and shall perform the following tasks The first four tasks are from Secretary of French and the racial equity task force The main tasks on the next page are from certain serious bill The first four Review in school services and availability of these services and various su's Approved impact schools and regions of the state That are available to support students who would otherwise face exclusionary discipline To recommend additional or more uniform in school services That should be available to students who would otherwise face exclusionary discipline To read the defining the most serious behaviors That after considering all other alternatives and supports Should remain eligible for suspension or expulsion For identify best practice procedures that minimize law enforcement contacts for students facing in school or exclusionary discipline Next page five goes on to uh page six, but number five goes on to uh certain serious points Which is about data far as analyze current data collection definitions practices Use of a lot from this conduct and for disciplinary actions that result in a student's exclusion In the classroom and develop standard definitions and practices as necessary For the collection of all appropriate data uh related to school discipline And then six analyze on a school district and approved impact school basis the Available data we uh regarding suspension and expulsions and DAPI collect and analyze additional data necessary to inform the work of the task force including um a total number of insistence of expulsions and suspensions and each grade operated by the district to approve the impact school B The total number of students in each grade operated by the district to approve the impact school who were expelled or suspended In the number of instances of expulsion or suspension or both for each student See the duration of each instance of expulsion and suspension D the infraction um And E each instance of referral to local law enforcement authorities And seven share insights and best practices live among educators school administrators Boxing makers agencies and education have this advocacy organizations There are pots there before we go on Any questions comments center perspective? Yeah number seven seems just Worded differently another statute that i'm Familiar with where just this you know share insights and practices with all these different people and maybe we're okay with it being that That broad i don't have a specific suggestion right now, but it just strikes me as As very a very broad kind of general charge and maybe we're okay with that, but I just want to flag it Take about no more I mean what I like about it and it might just be the language that we need to change Of course i'm open to even of course removing it, but I you know anytime we can share information and and You know research and ideas with different groups You know, I like when we we as a state do those kinds of things, but That's am I in but you know usually you have it like as part of a report or like just sharing insights Uh, I see what you mean, you know what how they are they how are they gonna share? You know that's a great point. Yeah, so instead of it is so broad that um You know do we want to make that as part of the report so the report shall have these insights and best practices And then that the whole report is shared, but these folks or something like that Yeah, I think if you wouldn't mind kind of getting some language that would get us a little more Uh specific a little more greater specificity greater direction Um would be helpful there Yeah, sure. I think uh one option is to have the agency post report on its website and maintain it People because it's gonna see it Well, I was just gonna say if jim thought that number seven would be kind of automatically a part of the report or is number seven different than the report um, well The report requirements next actually it's it's on page seven um and it's It's being a report to you with findings and recommendations um So we can put in the report requirement more details where the report has to specify Uh, and then you can also make AOE post it on its website so it's available to everybody I mean the posting thing I mean, I think it's fine. I just don't know how uh How people Get there, you know, in other words, what would prompt somebody to to check the website? um It's like so much research that's out there. I I said yesterday I think in terms of education. How do you get people to that to the site, but senator chinden I'm gonna always reflect on experiences like my city council role and I would say in this case I go with deference to the agency of education and and I like the language in that Encouraging the sharing of this information and somewhat leave it to them to communicate it in the right channel So I think the language charges the sharing and then hopefully the secretary would then integrate it into whatever Communication modes would make the most sense for his expertise and understanding how the agency functions But I really like also what senator changes his final comments, you know Where he said Allow the direct the agency of education to share it in the way that they I don't know exactly, you know Find it to be the most efficient most Garage, you know, something like that senator perchlick and well, it's the task force that's doing the sharing so You know, that's not necessarily the secretary We think it would be the secretary. I just didn't know, you know, I'm willing to think about it some more and think about what the right language is, but You know, I agree with what senator chinden said we want to give them that leeway the best of their professional opinion, but right now it's this is the task of the task force which You know, the secretary isn't a member of and the task force isn't even reporting to the secretary so We should just make sure we have them doing what we want them to do Based on your discussion, it's honestly, we should we should take out seven as a task force requirement and put it under On the next section of the reporting and they could be a requirement of the agency to share I think that's a great step What do you think senator perchlick? Yeah, no that that sounds that sounds good yeah We just want to make sure that I guess we want to have the task force identify what these are And then that it's included in the report Which I guess maybe goes without saying that if it's in the report they've identified it and that the report Shall be shared with these entities, but we leave it up to them how to share the report to senator chinden's point Yeah, the aoe obviously will be there forever and uh this task force goes away in a year. So yeah Any other questions? Okay so my So My lettering got off here The next section report should be in that app. So I'll have to fix that but The report is due to you on report number 30 of this year Now I can't expand that section as we talked about Uh meetings or standards. So the first thing would be uh august 1st this year The task force would not be more than six times Uh, we have the assistance of the in civil education And it would be reimbursed with your standard per diem and uh reimbursement of expenses For business blank For new senators. So just say something about the per diem is that for and for a reminder for all of us That's for each member Yeah, each member who's not otherwise compensated gets a per diem It's 50 bucks a day And then reimbursements based on mileage and right If for example a legislator were on it would a legislator get re get the per diem Yes, they would um if Did they say they're serving on a tax force for committee Outside of the session, you know a session to get reimbursement, right? Okay. Thank you dinner person uh Jim on the recommendation for legislative action and E what F should that should be in line six is that Is it your understanding that We would need legislative action to Do Not Have suspensions and expulsions be happening is does that need to be legislative or could the agency of education or the board of education do that without legislation You would need to uh revise current statute for that Uh, I encourage statute those requirements are on this and they'd be different. I think if you went this direction Okay Okay, um section three is the appropriation We don't know how much it's for we know it's going to cover per diem and reimbursement But there are other expenses that cost them they have and collecting data for example So we have to hear from the agency as to what that number might be right So I left that blank um page eight in section four It's about data collection. Um, this is on before the first meeting of the tax force The secretary shall class and distribute to members all readily available data on suspensions and expulsions from each from our public school and approved in Penn School in academic years, uh 2013 through 2019 Included to the data specified in subdivision D six of section two. So D six on the previous page You'll back to page six line six. There's a lot of detail as to the data the console the tax force needs to analyze and that's the data that the Secretary has to produce for them um Jim I'm sorry to interrupt for new senators I All can all the education statutes been we found online in case people ever want to cross reference or should I get education So if you want to the general assembly website, yeah, there is a tab for Kind of existing laws from our laws If you tap on that You'll find a link to all the statute. So one through 32 Talus one to 32 are there online And the session you want the title you want to go to a 16 16 has all the education statutes in it What I love is every time I have a question I say it's for new senators, but really it's partly for me Thank you Okay, so we're on page eight again. We're online 11 Subsection B. Yeah, so this is on before July 20 July 1 2022 The structure of education and the state board to incorporate the task force standard definitions and practices developed and subdivision D5 Into the data collection rules procedures the accepted by privacy laws And so require the collection of data as recommended by the task force beginning with the 23 24 school year to D5 talking about their Going back to page six online one Task force is supposed to analyze current that data collection definitions and practices used from this conduct and Develop standard definitions in practice enough for that. Sorry. Uh, and so develop standard definitions and practices As necessary for the collection. So it's cross frame back to the definition that the task force comes up to With the saying in section four on page eight is that those definitions shall be basically put into rules Report section five is outcome analysis So it says that on before June 15 of each year from 2025 to 2030 Secretary of Education to submit a written report to you on suspensions and expulsions from each from our public school They approved the impact school in the prior school year Included the data specified and again subdivision D6. So all that data So you have a sense for outcome from what you've done and the effective date is On passage and then the title of the bill would change upon passage To an act relating to the creation of the task force on school discipline reform Thank you, Jim. Thank you very much Any immediate questions or comments that anyone wants to make Otherwise what I thought we could do is give everyone I put it on the calendar for Tuesday to After everybody reviews it over the weekend see if we have additional questions I was going to I'm going to ask the agency of education to come in and weigh in on things Uh And I also want anybody over the weekend to think about any other witnesses they would like to hear from as we move forward, but This is um Yes, center lines I might have I might have missed it Is there anything in here that asks The task force To look for model programs in other states No, there isn't no I wonder if that is Anybody disagree with that looking for model programs in in other states You disagree center chin. No. No, I just want to say I'm a big fan of benchmarking. I do it a lot at UVM It's always the first place to start so great points on the lens Yeah, and you know, it could be ncsl or somebody's got something Yeah, and this really is for new senators If you haven't had an opportunity to reach out and look at the ncsl or csg websites They are great resources and in great spots to completely non-partisan You know get involved as much as you can go to their conferences be a part of them either related to education issues or anything that you know You're you're passionate about If you ever need any help reaching out or uh, please let let let us all know So does everyone feel okay with uh spending some time over the weekend? Looking at this. I remember back to house education when our first bills would sort of come through I would just personally just need some time to digest it Talk talk things through take a look see what any at any questions any other witnesses that you want to hear from And then we can kind of gather again. We'll make time on Tuesday Jeannie if you wouldn't mind scheduling the agency of education secretary of french to come in and Way in on this new draft that would be helpful Would you like me to update this draft with the commerce you've had so far? That would be helpful actually and then if you wouldn't mind I don't know what your schedule looks like jim, but if you would email us a new draft sometime over the weekend That would give us Today Great in genie. Um, did you uh, are you okay? Uh getting the agency of education and on Tuesday to to review this Yeah, can we talk after the absolutely? I just want to make sure yep great Great, okay Thank you all it uh We're getting there