 Good evening everybody. I'm Sophie Sauvet with the Burlington Parks Recreation and Waterfront Department. As people are arriving, we want to take this opportunity to learn who's in attendance and how you found out about the meeting by using the Zoom chat feature. You'll notice at the bottom of the screen, there's a button labeled chat. If you click this, you'll be able to send a chat response to the project team. If you don't see the chat button at the bottom, try moving your cursor to the top of your screen and another menu will drop down with the option to select chat there. For anyone who's calling in, and you don't have the ability to use the chat box, so for all callers, use star 9 to raise your hand and we'll unmute you to tell us your name and how you found out about the meeting out loud. Or you can text Diana Woods at 802-730-6200. Looks like there's still people flowing in but we'll get started. So thank you for your patience as we all share this introductory information and now we're ready to dive in. Hopefully you are as well. Welcome to the Perkins Pier redesigns first public workshop. While we wish we were together at the park. We're so grateful you're here with us tonight. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy days and diving into the study with us. First off tonight we'll hear from our department director Cindy White, who will share a few words about Perkins Pier. Cindy. Thank you Sophie. So welcome everybody. As Sophie noted, I'm Cindy White. I noticed there's an R in my last name over there but we're kind of used to that one. So Cindy White, I'm your director for Parks Recreation and Waterfront here in Burlington and we're so thrilled that you're all here tonight joining us. When we miss seeing you in person, it's pretty astounding how the virtual component has really allowed more people to join in. And so we welcome your feedback. When we're all done tonight, we hope you'll email us and share us with us what you think worked well and where you think we could make some improvements. I really see in the future that we'll probably be incorporating these virtual meetings for our public projects. One of the questions that's come up is why is Perkins Pier named Perkins? Well Charles Perkins was a physician for over 50 years in Burlington and he also served several terms on the city council. He was the old country doctor that would make house visits. There's a letter in our files from 1992 that his son had written that shared the story about his father. It sounds like the day would start at 8am and it wouldn't end until he'd seen his last patient of the night. And then he often would go out to make house calls and wouldn't be home until midnight and the practice was in the front two rooms of their house. So he was also a city councilor for several terms and his pet project was the waterfront specifically Perkins Pier. He was always advocating for more benches, more picnic tables, better parking, better access and really anything and everything that would make the Burlington waterfront more accessible to all residents of Burlington. He was an 1887 VHS alum and also alum of both UVM undergraduate and medical school. His vision was to make this accessible for Burlington and it's pretty neat that we're still incorporating it today. So what is Perkins? Perkins is a place where you can take in the sunset whether you come by car, walk or bike. It's a small boat access but pretty precarious as I watched a few gentlemen a few weeks ago put their kayaks into the water on one of those glass lake days of Lake Champlain. I will note they were wearing dry suits and had on their life jacket. We have a playground that's available for the residents of the neighborhood and also our visitors. It's a really great place to park if you want to get away from the hustle and bustle of the waterfront but still access the bike path and Lake Champlain. And many of you have your boot at our marina because it's used primarily by Burlington residents. And that's one of the reasons why we're here today. We want to hear from you what is Perkins and what do you see for its future. So Sophie thanks so much for helping me welcome everybody today and thank you to all of you for joining us. I'm going to hand it back over to Sophie. Thanks Cindy. As you can see from the agenda we have several presenters from the project team who will share preliminary analysis that has been discovered through research and stakeholder feedback so far. This includes input from focus groups and a marina user survey, as well as a summary of Perkins peers history contacts community use and land use and water use. In each of these sections we will pause to ask questions using a poll and zoom. At the end of the meeting we'll have some time for questions and answers. For now I'll pass it to Brie Hansel from agency landscape and planning to continue. Thank you Sophie and thank you Cindy for the really nice introduction. We also have John behind the scenes who is going through questions and answers in the Q&A as they come in so you'll see him in the Q&A. So really big thanks to the team. I want to introduce now and start with introducing you to the consultant team that is supporting the city on this effort. So we really see ourselves as working for the BPR team but also all of the Perkins peer stakeholders and the Burlington community as a whole. So I'm from agency landscape and planning, and we have a long history of working in Burlington. So it's always really special when we get invited back and especially to a place as unique and beloved as Perkins peer. We are a team of landscape architects urban planners, and you'll hear from Rhiannon Sinclair from Aiman Hutton, and from Sophie Chen tonight. We're also joined on this project because of its kind of unique questions by Moffat and Nickel who are marina experts and coastal engineers. We work with them on waterfront sites all over the country and always find that they are really the best when it comes to answering questions about how do you plan for a marina both functionally and physically. And then finally the other part of our team is VHB. And they're they're thinking a lot about the infrastructure, the kind of civil engineering side environmental questions that we might have as we think about changes to the site and also local landscape because they are based right in Burlington. So we're really happy to be partnered with them as well. So now I've shared a little bit about us and we want to take some time to hear from you. And also to get familiar with zoom polling which will be using a little bit tonight so that we can have more of an interactive discussion and hear from you as we go through. So at times throughout the presentation you'll be prompted to fill out a poll and zoom to give feedback on the ideas and the concepts we're discussing, rather than just having to wait until the end. These polls will pop up on your screen and when they do will ask that you follow the instructions and please select your responses. So now we'll test it out and we'll start with the zoom poll function and the options in the poll will correspond to the content you'll see on the next slide. So for our first poll we want to understand where you live in relationship to Perkins pier and there's four options. You can choose a if you live within walking distance, which you could consider to be about a half a mile away from the pier or about that first circle in the map. If you live in a city tight area be if you are a driving distance or maybe a long walk on a nice day about a mile away and the larger circle on the circle on the map. See if you live in Burlington, but outside of those two zones or D. If you live wicked far outside of Burlington. And I know I saw in the chat we've got some folks from other communities as well. So you'll see a couple polls at once, but just focus on the first poll. Tell us about yourself how close do you live to Perkins pier, and we'll give you just a minute to kind of enter your answers. This one probably didn't require a lot of thinking so we can probably close it and see what we learned. And yes thank you to those who are who are putting it into the chat to if, if you have an answer that isn't up there. Okay, so I can I can share with you what I'm what I'm seeing in terms of responses. The majority of people but it's, it's close are are for answer D so live outside of Burlington over a mile away and second. And that was with 32% second place is within walking distance so that's really interesting we've got kind of neck and neck people who are really close and those who are farthest distance, and then right in the middle. And then at 20% each within driving distance or kind of within Burlington but beyond. So hearing from people from all over which is great and communities who, because we do know that this is a resource for the region as well. Okay, we're going to head on to our second poll and we'll learn a little bit about what you do when you come to Perkins pier. So if you visit Perkins pier what's the number one reason that you come so you might do a lot of things there but what is the most frequent most important number one reason. And if you don't visit we'd love to hear why not in the chat box. So the questions are a play on the playground be use the Marina ramp. See parking D bike or walk through it or walk your dog. Eve you the waterfront or f something totally different that we haven't thought about, like maybe the polar bear plunge, I guess that's happening. So you can use the chat to tell us that. And if you see the zoom box popped up just do a little scroll down to number two and give us your answer. Okay, I see some comments people want to choose more than one. It is hard to decide and we are, we are making you decide but you can always tell us in the chat what some of the other things are that you care about a lot. If you're just seeing pull one in your box see if you can click on your box and scroll down and if you also see poll to New Year's Day dive. Okay maybe just a moment it seems like people are still clicking through. Great. How about we go ahead and close this poll. And I see that there are just some comments or questions in the chat so if you had if you weren't able to put in your answer we closed it too fast, add it to the chat because we're collecting information there as well. Okay, so the people who did put their answers into the poll, the, let's see. Wow, no, but this one is surprising to me know an answer that they play on the playground. And the number one answer was to use the marina and boat ramp. So a really, you know, niche item that's offered at this site that's really important. We also have kind of the general enjoyment of being at Perkins pier and kind of the park environment biking and walking through or walking your dog and enjoying that experience on the waterfront enjoying the views. And then some people who use it in a functional way come and park and use it as a way to get to somewhere else. Thank you so much for giving us kind of a snippet of who we're talking to today and what your relationship is to the community and to Perkins pier we're going to talk much more about that. So now we'll kind of shift to the project for a moment and I'll talk a little bit about what we've been asked to do and kind of the process. So the RFP that the city put out, put forward a vision that made it really clear that the understanding is that Perkins pier is a site that it does a lot of things, as we saw from those responses for many segments of the community. So this study is thinking both about the land side, the function as a park, as well as the water side, and the operations as a marina, and it's thinking about serving both kind of local needs as well as visitor needs. So we're really early in the process so really glad to have the chance to talk to you all tonight. This is going to be a three phase process. And we kicked it off with some site visits and inventory and analysis and January and February. This is the first time together that we're getting together with the community but we're building on some engagement that we've been able to do with the Perkins pier community leading up to today I'll talk about that in a moment. So today and the analysis that we share will integrate your feedback and then we'll move into a period of thinking about how does that inform the future and how does that inform improvements that you all might want to see at the site. So that'll take us through kind of the bulk of the project which is dedicated to developing ideas testing them and really developing a plan, and we'll bring that back to you kind of halfway through that plan development phase in May. And another chance to come together as we after we incorporate your feedback again come back together and start to, you know, kind of make the plan concrete and detailed and develop develop out the full needs of the study. So that'll take us back together again mid mid July and as Cindy said, maybe we'll be in a hybrid setting at that point maybe we'll be able to kind of interact both online and in person. We'll see where we're all at but it would be sure would be nice to be at Perkins pier together talking about it. So just wanted to share a little bit of the outreach that has informed the analysis that we'll share with you today. So a lot of the analysis is through research but it's also through conversations and we're really guided by a working group that is across departmental across the city. So a lot of different departments have functions needs operations at Perkins pier and they're all kind of working together on the working group to give us guidance. We also have done a series of focus groups conversations with neighbors with staff who work really closely at the pier with programming partners, some of whom I believe are here tonight. So those who are really knowledgeable about infrastructure, which is going to guide a lot of the opportunities as well as the kind of constraints and challenges for the site, and then advocates, people who are really passionate and kind of advocate for the site. So we've had those conversations and you'll see that fold into what we show you will have further engagement going forward. So a very kind of preliminary distillation of those conversations has led us to what we think are some core values to guide this improvement process, and to think about what Perkins pier wants to be in the future so these are future looking values right it's about saying that Perkins pier is a welcoming gateway to Lake Champlain. That's getting at that both kind of local and regional role. It connects the surrounding communities to their waterfront and to one another. So it has a function as a gathering place for people and for communities that it's designed and operated to be inclusive of neighborhood users regardless of their background or abilities. So thinking about the physical access and how we use it, and then it's a place to learn about history culture and science. So those are some of the values that really came through across all the conversations so far. And now we're going to dive in deeper to some other research, and some of what we're seeing down on the ground on the site, and we'll walk you through kind of five themes starting with looking at the city, and how the city's formation informs Perkins pier looking at connections from the pier and beyond digging deep into the site itself and the analysis and kind of what's above and below ground, and then moving into the water to think about the area and about resilience. So with that, I will turn it over to Sophie on the agency team. Wonderful. Thanks, Bree. Let's start with the city and dive into Burlington's history and how we got to where we are. Some context I'm not from Burlington, so I'm sure you all know more about it than I do. So please feel free to drop in the chat if I get anything wrong. We wanted to start with an acknowledgement of the original caretakers of the land and the water. I've been practicing these pronunciations, but please know I'm working through them so if I don't get them completely right. You can also correct me. So we honor and call this land and water by their original names, the Misakoi and the Batabatok. The Misakoi and the Batabatok is home to the Apanaki, the original guardians of this territory. We uplift, honor and speak the traditional names of the land and the people to remind these community and all other visitors that these peoples did and still do exist. Without their committed stewardship, we would not be enjoying this place today. So Willowini, thank you, and thank you all for being here. So Burlington as a result of an ancient sea water sea, salt water sea, once connected to the Atlantic that froze and transformed into a glacier. As the glacier retreated, it created Lake Champlain and the surrounding hills and river systems, as we recognize today. People have been living near Lake Champlain for thousands of years. During the tundra-like conditions, people were migratory and followed big game. As the climate warmed, the glacier retreated and people began to settle along the lake. And most recently, they began to trade and travel with the water as well. Around the American Revolution, white colonizers claim land in the area and set up trading routes north and south. The War of 1812 brought brief conflict to the shores of Burlington with a very quick cannonball battle. And with the introduction of steam power, industry grew and rail lines connected Burlington, expanding its working waterfront, which is where Perkins sits on today. Today, Perkins Pier is a reminder of Burlington's industrial past and supports current Burlington, a college town and regional hub with a young working class population. And so there are many stories to tell that connect the areas rich history and importance with Perkins as we know it today. Our research will be an integral part in shaping the future planning of the site and thinking about the next generations. And now I invite everyone to use the chat box. Please tell us your own memories of Perkins Pier and help us build a more recent oral history of the site. We will give you a couple minutes to share your memories in the chat box. And again, if you are on the phone, you can dial star nine if you'd like to share your memories out loud. Awesome. So people are submitting their memories now. There's some wonderful ones. Someone got married there in August in 2000. People have had many sunsets fun on the docks. There was a triple rainbow there earlier last year. Summer boating people are running in Perkins Pier, a quiet place to walk and social distance during COVID. Lots of sailing memories. The lowest McClure visiting that the quiet. Thank you so much. And thanks everyone for sharing. It's fun to see these continue to roll into the chat. Now Rhiannon Sinclair from agency is going to share a bit more about Perkins Pier relationship to the city and access. Sophie, and thank you all for sharing your memories of the pier both funny and thoughtful and memorable. Burlington's waterfront is an incredible asset for visitors residents and businesses. We want to spend a few moments highlighting the unique sighting of the pier and reinforce its value as a mobility hub. As we heard from conversations with stakeholders over the past few weeks Perkins Pier functions as a release valve between the lake front and the city. Situated at the southern edge of downtown Burlington at the terminus of Maple Street and sandwiched between the lake and the greenway. Many modes of transportation are still intermingled. The pier is also very accessible and connected to many destinations within walking distance. We've often heard it referred to as the neighborhood Marina or the blue color waterfront because it is among the last of the publicly accessible marinas in the area. If you're not familiar with Perkins Pier it's not easy to find. There are no big indicators that this place is for all to enjoy and the entrance on Maple Street and the valley lane feels like a backdoor. There are many thresholds to get to the site. The railway, the greenway route and entry gatehouse give way to an unencumbered views from 213 parking spaces, a waterfront playground and walking paths right up to the water's edge. And so our big takeaway for the connectivity of the Perkins Pier site is that it feels like one big intersection of mobility systems. The confluence makes Perkins Pier a significant gateway between the lake and the downtown but also presents some connectivity challenges. The future design needs to address the multimodal nature of Perkins Pier and its direct surroundings to ensure safe, welcoming access for all. My colleague Aiman Hutton is now going to share a little bit more about the site itself. Thank you. Next we'll take a closer look at the land side features of Perkins Pier. As Sophie described in the beginning, the Burlington Waterfront has been a hub of industry for over two centuries. The pier was built in 1810 and was originally called both Old South Wharf and the Salt Dock. It was also the first pier that extended out into the lake. The downtown waterfront is manmade. A lot of people don't know that the water used to reach the toe of the slope below battery. And to make room for the industrial land uses along the lake, the shoreline was filled with a mix of materials. And this is why spaces like Perkins Pier, Waterfront Park, and the Urban Reserve are so flat compared to the sloping downtown. Historically, the site was primarily a home for warehouses. So materials that were stored on site include coal, oil, groceries, boats, and even cement. There was also a rail spur that you can see there that connected those facilities to the railroad. And as a result of these land uses and some of the materials that were used to fill the site in the first place, we can assume that the soils below require special care to ensure that any historic contamination is not released into the water table or exposed to people in the park. Looking a little closer at the park as it is today, Perkins Pier is a 4.1 acre public park and marina. Nearly half of the site is dedicated to parking, both paved and unpaved. The site is mostly impervious, but lawn areas along the waterfront provide some permeability as well as really valuable, flexible green space. The site also includes a small BPRW building called the Lyman Building. Park goers have access to a small playground, which honestly has passed its prime, as well as a number of benches for sitting and enjoying the views of the water. There are a handful of commemorative plaques in the park, and visitors also have access to two restrooms in the Lyman Building. So getting a little closer, the water's edge consists of four different systems. There are wooden bulkheads, steel sheet piles, stone block walls, as well as riprap boulder slopes. The three vertical systems serve a similar purpose to hold up the land and allow boats to get close to the shore with deep water. While the steel is relatively new, the wooden and stone walls are in need of some repair. The riprap is more typical of the lakefront elsewhere in the city and has shallower water. Zooming in to look at the Lyman Building, it was significantly damaged by the 2011 flooding. The restrooms were restored to serve park goers and marina users, but the majority of the space, which is used as storage and workspace for the city, was only partially repaired. And so the site is in need of repairs to the amenities, to its waterfront edges, to its infrastructure and to the building. The urban soils that I described below will guide how we think about stormwater strategies and topography. And the future designs really should fundamentally rethink the arrangement and elevation of parts of the park. Next, this handsome fella will walk you through the state of the marina. Perkins Pier is one of the many boating facilities along the shores of Lake Champlain. For marina users, Perkins Pier is a gateway to the lake and this regional network of destinations. And for really adventurous boaters, Lake Champlain itself is a gateway to a massive network of navigable waters, including this great American loop that you see on the slide here. Perkins Pier is not the only waterfront facility in Burlington. There are a number of marinas and beaches where Burlingtonians access the water. So the marina offers two primary facilities, 83 boat slips that are in the Cove, and then 23 moorings out to the west off the shore. These are supported by two dinghy docks, the parking that we've talked about, as well as the restrooms. Another major use for the site is the boat ramp where boaters depart for day trips or to put their boats in for the year in the slips. In terms of conditions, we've heard that the water depth and clarity is an issue in that Cove area where the slips are. And we've heard that the moorings can be quite choppy when there are winds from the southwest. And so Lake Champlain offers high quality diverse boating experiences for locals and tourists alike. The Perkins Pier marina requires some upgrades to better meet the needs of its users who are predominantly blue collar locals. Future design should continue to prioritize that user group. With that, we're on to our next poll. The question we have is basically what do you think should be added or expanded in the marina? Option A is places for play. Option B is marina improvements. Option C is access to the water for small boats and swimmers. I know from reading the chats, that's on several of your minds. D would be food and beverage, something to help you stay there a little bit longer. Get a snack. E, more special events. And then F, of course, use the chat box if you've got another idea. All right, you should see the poll pop up and it's the same as the one we've done before. We'll give you about a minute to do this one. Small boats and swimmers are pulling ahead halfway 30 seconds. Marina improvements coming up from behind. This is really fascinating to watch in real time. 10 more seconds. Seems like it's leveled out. So the results are clear. Access to the water for small boats and swimmers got about half of the boat. Marina improvements was close behind that, then places for play. Special events was way in the tail end with only about a 10th or 10% of the boat. And food and beverage fell somewhere in the middle. And we'll look at the chats, more picnic tables, a place for fishing. What a wonderful idea. And then improvements to the parking lot would make it work better. Great. So we'll close the chat now, or sorry, the poll now. And Sophie's going to bring us home by walking us through resiliency. Take it away, Sophie. Thanks, Aiman. The last piece of our analysis of Perkins Pier is its resiliency or ability to withstand extreme weather and climate change. I'm sure you all are familiar with the flood of 2011 where all of Perkins Pier was submerged for a couple of days. And so Perkins Pier sits right at the edge of Lake Champlain. And as a result, more extreme flood events like 2011 are expected to happen. Also like Aiman said before, it's filled ground. And so it's especially vulnerable to flooding. As you can see, the highest point of Perkins on the eastern edge is right at 104 feet elevation, which was just above the lake level during the 2011 flood. This shoreline section of the riprap edge shows how long the site elevation is and how vulnerable it is, even to minor flooding compared to the seasonal high levels in May. That's submerged parts of the site every year already. And so thinking about the future resiliency of Perkins Pier is something that we consider a very important design driver and consideration for the future of the park. And that concludes our analysis. So I'll hand it back to Aiman if you want to take it away. Well, thank you all for joining us and listening to this presentation. It's our summary of everything we've learned over the past couple months about the site. We're going to go into Q&A in a bit, but before we do that, we have one final poll. So if you can cast your mind back to the beginning of the presentation when Bree shared values that guide this project, we'd like you to sort of reflect on those and think about what should be the number one priority going forward for Perkins Pier. So your options here, it's again the same polling interface and our options are A, that the park and pier become more resilient to flooding and storms. B, that it's better connected to neighborhoods in downtown. C, that it's affordable and accessible to all. D, that it's a place for learning. E, that it's a place for togetherness. And F, again, other, and you can use the chat box to let us know. Here comes the poll, we'll take a minute again. This warms my heart for 30 seconds in and affordable and accessible to all is way ahead. That really aligns with a lot of the feedback we've heard in speaking with the city. It's great. About 15 seconds left. So as predicted affordable and accessible to all took the lead with just over half the votes, followed by resilient to flooding and storms. And then trailing far behind was connectivity, a place for learning a place for togetherness and other. So some of those other ones. A lot of support in the chat for accessibility and affordability. Diane made an interesting comment about a qualifier for a about resiliency that it's not just about armoring the park and making it hard and like a concrete breakwater but that it is for solutions that are softer and ecological based. And so we will close the poll. And now we'd love to answer your questions. So for this next piece, this is really the open Q&A part of this. Some of you have been great about adding questions as we've gone and we've got those queued up to answer. So if you have a question that you'd like us to talk through now please use the Q&A button down at the bottom of your screen. If you click on that, you can submit a question that will come to us and we'll chip away at the list. Amen. Are we ready to start fielding questions? Yes. And one other thing, John, we've got these Q&A prompts up. So if I don't think this will be an issue with this crowd, but if it gets quiet and we don't have any questions, we'll start asking for thoughts on these comments or these questions as well. Great. But we have quite a few coming in. Go ahead, John. Yep. I've basically been saving questions that we felt like were more pertinent to the planning process. More practical questions have been answered. So if you feel like your question isn't on here, look in the answered section. But going back a while, Andrea Todd asked if Lake Health can be added to the values. Amen. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great suggestion. I think it missed the list, perhaps an oversight, but also because I think it's been really baked in as a prerequisite to a lot of our conversations. So, you know, we touched on infiltrating water and making sure that contaminants don't leech into the lake. So that's relative to stormwater management. But that sort of ethos will extend through all aspects of this design. So there'll be physical elements to that, like stormwater, primarily. But also, you know, I think it connects to the idea of education as well, that a big part of ensuring the health of our waterways is building that generation, the next generation of advocates for natural systems. So, you know, physical improvements and physical measures to improve quality of the quality of water should be married with an education campaign to create that group of Burlingtonians. I know that you're already there that will champion the lake. Great. And then we've got a question from Patrick Johnson. Is it possible to reclaim the parking lot for green space? Who wants to answer that? I got you. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, so it's a balancing act, you know, certainly the impervious nature of the parking lot close to the water is something that's on our mind. However, the parking there is also a really vital part of the function of the marina and also how this park operates in the context of the rest of the park system, the rest of the waterfront. Partly it's about providing that space for people to come get near the waterfront, go to the 4th of July, go to waterfront park. So parking is important to the programming and function of this site. However, I'd say this full project team is really interested in looking at ways to right size that so it's not there aren't additional spaces that aren't being used. But also that there aren't that we're not overpaving and paving too much area for the same number of parking spaces can we make it more efficient. And then of course, looking at ways that that parking space can be resurfaced or redesigned to be more inviting and welcoming as a waterfront space. I think those are all kind of how we're approaching that question. Great. Thanks, amen. We've got a couple of questions from a T s. One is a statement I guess sometimes it smells like wastewater so sad question if it would be great if parking could be a solar orchard similar to what they have at echo. I can tell you that that has come up in a in a stakeholder meeting and we would certainly be interested in looking at that anyone else on the design team want to weigh in on that. Just echo what you said very interested in that as a possibility and there's no reason why it couldn't work there so great. Yeah, love that idea about the aroma that many of us are familiar with on the site. So that has to do with specific tanks at the wastewater treatment plant that create that smell at specific times when the water levels in the tanks are such there is a solution that requires capping them. It's a very significant investment, but not one that's impossible. So, I think it's something this team's really talking about as the sort of long range future of this part of the waterfront but, but it is a very significant cost and probably outside the budget of this park improvement and outside the scope of the park to Duncan Adamson had that question and then he asked a second question I'm curious about how it is a place to learn about history culture in science. It seems like it would be first, a place to recreate Sophie, you want to answer that one with Sophie. Sophie on the parks team. I think it can be what we're looking at is that it can be a place for all those things and it's not necessary saying that if there's space, it's a space for education that recreation is negated, I think we can leave those two together and it's really about hearing what people's priorities are for the site that we're here tonight to listen to and understand where that fits in in terms of a priority but it's definitely something that we've heard so far in terms of just the interesting history that agency Sophie shared earlier about the site that that's not necessarily obvious to everybody when they come to Perkins pier so I think it'd be great to convey that in some shape or form but doesn't mean we're erecting an educational building or a museum it just means that we're looking at ways perhaps looking at ways to integrate interpretation on the site in the future but recreation is obviously still a priority within Perkins pier and sorry if I ramble Andy Simon just it's not a question thinks people should have to smell the wastewater to know what is going on in the sewage treatment plant John I can I can kind of follow up on the educational piece because that was also something that we've heard is that what is going on that wastewater treatment plant we can't negate it is there as part of living in a urban space but that we can definitely think about integrating information about what's going on there and and why there is that smell and what it's really doing for the lake in a positive way because if we didn't have the wastewater treatment plant it would definitely not be a good situation overall along our waterfront so I think that is definitely something we acknowledge we're not ignoring the wastewater treatment plant and we're going to look at ways to transfer information about what's going on there great what else do we have on it looks like we have a few questions in the chat as well which I'm happy to go back and forth chat versus Q&A with you yeah re why don't you take a few of the chats and I'll answer as many typed questions as I can that sounds that sounds good and I also just because I'll be sharing this in the chat we highly recommend that you share your questions in the Q&A it enables us to be able to respond to those either in text format or to discuss those a little bit more easily we don't want to lose your question within the chat box but there are some important questions here that I that I want to add one more etiquette piece there re if you have a statement or reflection or something you'd like us to know that's not a question that's please do that in the chat that'll help us separate the questions from statements in the Q&A absolutely thanks Haman yeah go ahead so the first question I think might be a question for Sophie what is the construction timeline this is very much the beginning of the process so we want to reinforce that but what is the construction timeline here if the question is about the construction timeline on the these way forward for Perkins Pier then I would say one it depends what comes out of the sighting study and that timeline is we just started it recently it will wrap up towards the end of summer if not early fall and from that point on we will need we have the city we'll need to budget for any modifications to our capital planning which in the near future we have some money set aside to address the playground and we also have some funding available to repair the mooring field that that needs repairs essentially so those two are definitely on our horizon in the short shorter term but anything else will need to be budgeted or other funding opportunities will need to be sought for it so in terms of construction we're not seeing a big construction project at Perkins Pier I'd say in the next year if that's a concern and we will keep everybody posted on any timeline for what emerges out of the sighting study sounds like that ties nicely into Bob Wolf's question which is how much money is budgeted for redesign and it sounds as though a portion of some of the Perkins Pier needs especially those taking care of deferred maintenance have been appropriated but a larger scale redesign we don't yet know what the budget will be for that that's correct great and then Robert asked will access to the water for divers be considered as part of the planning process I don't know if Sophie or John want to answer that sorry can you, oh sorry go ahead John access for divers well the dive shop is right across the street and we're definitely talking about creating better access to the water for all so I think by default that includes divers and obviously we are aware of the underwater treasures that exist out in the harbor just beyond Perkins Pier thanks John you're welcome I'll keep going if you want me to keep going yeah that'd be fine why don't you do a few more and then I am getting caught up here I will do two more questions so Mark had a question about what does one do about runoff from the parking lot understanding that a lot of that is impervious surface I'll go ahead and pose that question to Eamon yeah yeah it's a tough nut to crack and something we need to work on so the way we think about and this is really in collaboration with our engineering partners at BHB there in Burlington the way we're thinking about the stormwater consideration on the site first it's important to remember we think about quantity and quality a lot of times when we talk about stormwater in this case because the water is making its way to the lake it's not about quantity running off of our site it is about quality so without getting too in the weeds I'm trying to think of the best way to do this so a lot of times we would think about infiltrating the water through the ground to allow the sort of natural process filtration to occur but because of that fill material I talked about and the nature of the soils below the site that's really not advisable here without really specific studies about where that might happen so instead the strategy needs to be about retaining the water on site providing some filtration through vegetation filters or through other filters and holding it long enough that that filtration occurs and then allowing it back into the lake cleaned through that process so it's a little bit different more like a really truly urban site that you might think of using mechanical systems and planted systems to clean the water before it's sent out to the lake that also helps to answer the next question that I was going to pose from Jay about adding more grass and raising the grade to reduce flooding it's something that we've started to talk about this idea that because we can't excavate that there is still the opportunity to go up so it's definitely going to be a topic of conversation in the design phase could I pin one thing onto that another interesting thing that comes with that idea of creating local high points and elevating is that the types of not just grass but the types of trees that can grow there when not subjected to inundation or high water tables we get them up out of that water we have lots more options for native trees that can be planted here so as the landscape architect it's very exciting also in that front awesome so re I can start in with some more in the Q&A Joanne Callas asked about the granite block wall outlook essentially the outer pier then can the path be continued all the way around it randomly stops and can the path go behind the benches and people are watching the sunset one doesn't have to walk in front of them blocking their view well that's a great idea I can answer the discontinuous nature of the path. We made essentially a stop gap investment in paving those walkways last year as a part of the bypass phase three. We can certainly in this process consider the outer pier and pretty much the rest of the site as open and a blank slate and walkways could be configured any way we could imagine but basically we were just trying to reduce some of the paving especially on the side that was more prone to damaging waves. The views are also better if the grade is a little higher again as a man pointed out if people have comments were really happy to have them. It's easier if they go in the chat. I'm going to Andy Simons question next is this the only opportunity that we can actually discuss. We are not discussing small boat storage at Perkins pier. As far as opportunities to discuss there will be two more public meetings as was mentioned the second one will happen in early May. And the second or the third one rather likely in July and certainly if you have more input on small craft. Feel free to enter it in the chat. Let's see. Has there been consideration given to the site and how it might support future Amtrak visitors from New York City. Owen Milne. Sophie from Burlington Parks. You want to feel that or maybe we could do that together. Can you start it I was reading another question. Well, I think the shorter the short version of that is yes we are very much aware of Amtrak's arrival and the department is concurrently working on several different portions of projects related to the bike path that move it to the west side of the tracks and accommodate passenger rail from Amtrak in the coming year year and a half and part of the this project involves relocating the bike path across Perkins in some new configuration to make room for the the overnighting of the train in the rail yard. Sophie anything added to that or are you busy. Sorry. I'd say the realignment of the bike path on the west side of the trail track will provide a safer alignment for the bike path so that we're not crossing over several the crossing over the rail several times and we'll be just a I think a better ride for everybody and then looking at connecting it through Perkins pier as you were mentioning in an alignment that is is more pleasing for many people I've seen some comments about, you know, locating the bike path behind the benches so that people sitting on the benches don't get obstructed, etc. But just to note that this is the opportunity to voice those kinds of comments about what exists at Perkins pier so that when we're moving forward. We understand what has been working and what hasn't been working on the site for for users of the park. And Gare I believe you saw an answer that I typed to an earlier question that I don't think was yours you ask LCT boating supply store where is this different from wind and waves. We understand from Lake Champlain transportation participating in an earlier meeting that they are opening essentially a small boating supply store over at the King Street very dock. And someone asked a question about a building under construction and that's how I answered it so definitely different than than wind and waves, which I believe you're talking about happening on the hula parcel. Slowly shown back in the past I had seen a grand plan for buildings marine storage restaurants and more and some of the city's long range planning do these plans still exist for the long term. Thank you to is that sorry john that was me I was just making sure we noted that you were answering I can I can feel that question I mean yes of course the plans still exist on on paper and the most recent and I wouldn't necessarily understand was a POP proposal from 2013 plus or minus. So none of those plans are automatically being forwarded and incorporated into this planning process. If the people participating in this process and design team feels appropriate, some elements like expansion of the marina facilities would certainly be considered and a market study would show that there is likely demand for that but in terms of grand plans being resurrected. Yes, we are aware of those and no we are not basically taking them off the shelf and making them our new plan. Elements to improve remediate Lake health Andrea Todd. That is her answer to a polling question. I'd like to us indicates I'd like to see more plantings. I think that is pretty automatically part of the project. Amen. We breathe anyone want to talk about plantings and their role in the master plan. Yeah, absolutely. So we've talked are in the Q&A dialogue I've answered a couple questions about trees already. So, where to begin the, you know, the changes to the site will provide new opportunities for different native plantings here. Very excited about that for the shade that they'll provide the work they'll do to combat the urban heat island effect which we have to be thinking about on this site and everywhere really. Those trees that are right by the Lyman building are ash trees. If you're familiar with ashes and the emerald ash borer their days are numbered and part of the city's policy will be to remove those and replace them with resilient trees that will withstand the future generations of the park. So, yeah, when we think about it in terms of canopy, we're really excited for the opportunities there to increase the canopy and diversify it. And then in the ground plane, I think, you know, we want to preserve these lawn areas to the extent that they are really functional flexible spaces for recreating. So those are important. I think we're also very interested in ways to incorporate sort of living edge at the waters edge specifically in that riprap area, you know, in conjunction with the functional stuff like the dinghy docks but I think there's probably opportunities to create more habitat more of a vegetated resilient edge. Yeah. Great. Thanks, Amon. Joanne Collitz to clarify bike path question she asked two questions concerning the width of the bike path. Not the not the new part but the old part and the answer all the way from Perkins up to college street is yes indeed and it will not cross the railroad tracks that stays entirely to the west and bike path closures and work that started last fall are basically getting that process underway of bringing the bike path in this corridor up to our standard standard width. Carolyn Hansen can you talk more about specific changes you are considering and some of the priorities for improvements. I'm happy to have anyone grab that I would say we are very early in the planning process and so we are gathering ideas for consideration and the design teams. The next task will be to prioritize based on what they feel works on the site and how much support there is out there in the public for any given suggestion. Yeah, just to echo that Carolyn really that's what we're here to do today is to hear from from you all from the community, the residents about what makes sense here you know it's it's a four acre site. It's got a lot going on it's it's got some constraints to it in terms of what can happen but there's a lot of possibilities here I think. We're very excited about the ways people interact with the water there's so many comments about smaller crafts and getting smaller boats into the water we will saw that in the polls so that's something that has been rising to the top in the conversations those opportunities. But really, you know we're still in a listening phase right now there isn't a mandate from the city about, you know, what we must add here I think everybody at the on the design team and on the other side of the table with the city is really curious and open to the possibilities here. Megan mordek I want to see waterfall and other net animal natural habitats retained and preserved. Will you address this concern. Yeah, absolutely that goes back to the planting point we were just anecdotally we were walking along the site. In January and something caught our eye and we looked and saw a mink making its way through the rocks about you know 12 inch long little brown mink looking for something to eat and it was just such a good reminder that even in in a site. That is urban that you know doesn't have a ton of habitat per se. This is still like a vibrant wildlife space and wildlife corridor so absolutely any chance we have here to increase planted habitat or improve the aquatic habitat will be looking for those. It looks like Max is answering Andy Simons question. About why isn't everyone in Burlington stakeholder. I think we are considering everyone in Burlington a stakeholder this is a public meeting and we're certainly happy to to hear from from anyone and if there's more that we could be doing in that way we'd be happy to take suggestions. I think to piggyback on that question. John, there's a question about from Joanne college. Sorry, if I'm mispronouncing, elaborating on the demographics of the focus groups and if we've included. Hello, I'm sorry I don't know what SES is and new American residents are included King Street youth center, we did include the King Street youth center and we have also been talking with the city's trusted community voices group about outreach with different communities within Burlington to gain insight into how the space is used. And how the space could be transformed to accommodate uses that aren't accommodated there today. So we're doing as much outreach. We can and we are also open to suggestions on any connections within specific communities that we may not have touched or reached at this point. Yeah, and Joanne sorry I also mispronounced your name and saw the correct pronunciation in the Q&A Kalish. I'm sorry about that. Alona blanchard apologies if you have addresses there's an offer is there an opportunity to address some of the storm water that comes down from the street or will it just deal with water from impervious on the site. I would love to answer that john you know me. We love the idea of sponge parks you know it's part of the city's broader plan for the parks network, as well as some of the downtown goals around storm waters to try to direct urban run off to parks that can absorb it and infiltrate it. Like, we did touch on this earlier. It's not quite that simple with Perkins because of the soil conditions. So, to the extent possible we would love to be a good neighbor and accepting additional run off, or rather than just accepting it helping to clean it. I think we're still very early in the technical part of that and what what we're able to do so more on that soon I guess is the answer. And Gare has another question have you considered the other end of the waterfront ie all the build out at Moran sailing center skate park in opposition to what's possible here here as a more informal space, or informal access and green space. So balancing. I think what she's considering more built up facilities on the northern waterfront. Yeah, I feel like you've been reading our notes Diane, that's exactly how we're starting to conceptualize this. All right, let me come back to, I think the core. We think of this as the people's peer, the peer for the people, you know, whenever we talk to folks about who's using this space it's really the locals Marina. And importantly one that's accessible to to folks who might be priced out of other options and that this is really serving a really important need in those terms. And so that's really the core of our thinking here is that that needs to be protected that's a very important part of what Perkins peer does. What we love is the idea of adding more accessible ways to access the water. To that so talking about kayaks talking about canoes stand up paddleboards chances to swim. Those things and and we do think about it as a bigger network of Marina and voting options so this is meant to be complimentary the last thing we want to do is be just creating more of the same thing or redundant to these other places. We want options for everybody here so yeah. Jess Ackerman I believe she owns a store up the up the street from Perkins is interesting in having food trucks, one or more night a week. Are we there yet with food trucks. The question maybe for Cindy. I think it was Emma looked at it last year as a site and then COVID came in and kind of squashed some of our thoughts for Perkins for last year for doing food trucks but I know it's one that we are considering for location for the food trucks. Tom Peterson has a question that I thought it looked like Aaron Moreau was typing an answer because it. I believe contains vernacular that is common to Marina operators BTB should do more to welcome and service loopers. Oh, our loopers the people that do the big. Tom that has definitely come up in an earlier meeting. Perhaps you could clarify the scale of loop. But we definitely heard about. Does anyone remember what that loop is referred to as the great American loop. Yeah. Tom just clarified that's what that is what he's referring to. Great TS will you be having more focus groups I think more opportunity should be given and more effort to make them represented. Representative of Berlin Tony and one thing to point out I know TS you had a question about. How many people participating are from Burlington. As of. The beginning of the. Workshop we had 29% say that they were from out of Burlington so it sounds like. Most people are from. Burlington. Peter young I want to add my voice about the importance of public restrooms they are present at. At present almost nonexistent along the waterfront that is supposed to be welcoming to visitors. And locals are we thinking about restrooms. I'm happy to sort of answer that question a little bit just because Caroline Hansen asked a similar question if there are plans to improve the restrooms in the chat. And you know I think because we're at the early stages of this project in this process we're trying to get a sense for everything that's happening on site all of the different users. All of the different needs and whether or not those needs are being met. So restrooms are definitely part of our analysis and part of trying to understand whether or not those are supporting the users today. Or if there are more needs for additional restrooms or improvements to the restrooms to make those restrooms better fit the marina users in the park users. So we're working through that now to better understand what needs to happen, but that is absolutely part of the study the line and building is part of the study as well. So I'm going to get segues into another question in the chat that I'm going to put Aaron on the spot for so Aaron be ready. How will this impact long term slip holders. And then we shared a certain online survey with current marina users to ask them about how they use the marina today. And to ask them if they have any ideas for how to improve marina function and how to improve the amenities at the marina. Aaron has her own ideas as well. But I don't know Aaron if you want to speak to what how this project will impact slip holders. I don't want to be put on the spot. Anytime we talk about boating. I bottom line I, I think the great hope here is that we improve the, the experience for our voters who are already here on this site, who are launching who stay with us throughout the season, who are using the dinghy docs who are using the moorings. I'm very interested to hear what amenities that are desired. I know there's room to desire some more from this site. I know I myself do. So, you know, as we go through this process I know we're going to reach out and engage with our seasonal voters some more, but looking at the space, you know, from the building to the launch ramps to your actual slips. How can we cultivate a site that improves that experience that improves that connection out to the lake and what that means to our community. And, but also, you know, I'm hearing here tonight of people like to relax atmosphere at Perkins so that we're all years here and I want that to resonate throughout these comments and in the chats and the different engagements that we have is we want to hear from you of your experience and how we can improve it because that is the number one goal here. Sophie Salve, you wanted to answer we've had a couple questions about bringing this process to the NPAs. And we have been scheduling presentations or meetings with the NPAs in April to bring this and several other projects that are ongoing as part of our parks planning team to the NPAs. And we've confirmed I believe with four different NPAs that will be presenting in April and we're still waiting to hear back from the others but it's definitely something we're that's on our radar for outreach and just spreading the word about the project. And Sophie, can you also address the nature of the focus groups. Sure. So the focus groups that started with as part of the analysis of the site were exactly what the name entails there were focus groups of different categories. And for example was of the Burlington Park staff that work at Perkins Pier or maintain Perkins Pier and have either historical information about the site throughout time and what they've experienced works or doesn't work on the site where they see some improvements that are listed so that our consulting team agency and their sub consultants could hear that firsthand from our staff of what potentially some of the priorities are in the short term and also in the long term. We also had an infrastructure group which was composed of staff from our other departments within the city including Department of Public Works, stormwater and wastewater, as well as an electric etc to understand the utilities and and the other connections to the site. And then we also had a focus group on programming and partners meaning groups that we know are already using the site as part of their everyday programs or nearby us for how do they use the site or how have they seen some of their visitors use the site and the feedback that they receive by being close by and a neighbor as well. And then other groups included the adjacent neighbors, for example, a Vermont rail, obviously with all the changes coming to the waterfront with a rail. So it's important to know for a stand what's going on there on on their site so that there aren't any further conflicts between our site and Vermont rail. And there's a working group within the city that's that checks in on this project along the way to understand and if needed redirect, for example, tonight's presentation so that we're gaining the most input on the project along the way and also helping us with outreach and making sure that we're getting all the voices that we possibly can. As part of the process so that the future of Perkins pure is really shaped by the community. I hope that answers the question. Yeah, the focus groups and amen jump in. Yeah, I just want to put a fine point on the intention behind the focus groups, everything you said was was perfect. They were not meant to be a stand in for the voice of the community or representative of the voice of you all. It was really technical guidance to make sure we knew where pipes were and how the site was using that sort of stuff part of the kind of analysis. And really, the today is the focus group for lack of a better word for the community and they'll be more we'll go over the schedule in a minute but this is one of a set of opportunities for us to have this conversation. And amen, it's important to point out that that input combined with the technical input from stakeholder or focus groups needs to be brought together and you know some technical things are not specifically possible and some people's ideas might not be possible because of environmental issues or or what have you Patrick Johnson asked a question that I think has come up a few times about the urban soils found at Perkins as was mentioned in the history section. The entirety of Perkins is comprised of filled lands, urban soils that were just moved out to make land into the lake. Patrick's question about the could the ground be possibly toxic and if touched or developed would cause an environmental issue. The answer to that is yes, it is possible and we do know some things about some contaminants in the soil at Perkins through other work that we've done and we've also become pretty well versed in it by doing years of projects on the waterfront and the very aware of that we've got a great environmental engineer who's very familiar with Burlington's waterfront and its history and he will be helping us shape the plan and not make foolish mistakes in terms of creating environmental issues. I just wanted to address in the chat there's a lot of comments about the restrooms and while we completely agree that the restrooms need to be addressed in the short term part of the citing study is to understand if the restrooms need more than just what they have currently or it's expanding the services there so while we would like to upgrade them or make them better right now part of the study is to make sure that we're doing it in a way that addresses needs into well into the future and to do so we wanted to go through the citing study but we understand that especially since it flooded in 2011 there are some issues with the building but we'll address them in the long term of this study but it's definitely acknowledged. Yeah, I want to say that I know we're going fast and answering a lot of questions but 103 questions have been answered and at one point we had, I think over 80 attendees. If anyone has any feedback on how this meeting has gone in terms of being able to communicate your ideas to me it's, it's great to hear from so many different people and be able to have all this documented as input it's very valuable. So thank you. Looks like we have a nice comment from Patrick Johnson good meeting format nice facilitation with the public. Thank you Patrick we appreciate that a lot. Anything persisting in the chat that needs to be. I think we are okay on chat. I do wonder if it's worthwhile to go to the next slide and check out schedule again. Yeah, so here we are. So the project. If you look at the top you can see the months. We started in January great time to come. Walk around Perkins pier in the snow. We're excited to come back in the summer. So that was the two months January and February is when we did our site inventory and analysis phase. Next we'll be going to plan development from March through the end of June which is when the sort of designing will happen and the drawing and iteration. And then from July to mid August is extra packaging up of that into a report so that's the high level. And then if you follow the winding road down below you can see all the stops along the way so we've had our kickoff we've done focus groups. The working group meetings are those that working group is the group that Sophie described of city staff that help sort of check and make sure we're on message as we're developing content and designs. So here we are at public meeting number one. You'll see now we'll go into a phase now sifting through everything we've heard from you all sorting through priorities and then embarking on the plan development part the designing part. Early on in that phase will also get all the survey results back from the marina users so we'll have heads that are really full of all of your voices and thoughts going into that design process. And the design work will be split into kind of two pieces at the beginning will develop options for the park and marina. Let's say three for this come to the next meeting which you can see public meeting number two there right at the end of April. We'll come to that with choices because we want to hear from you all like, did we get it right is this going too far in this direction or too far in that direction. How might we merge these together. And what we want to come away from that meeting with is really your feedback on those designs and a path forward how to bring it together into proposal. Again, we'll double back sort of steep ourselves in your feedback and then work on consolidating those options into a single plan. Which will then take into July and sort of develop it further and more detail create more drawings to help explain the design and come back to you all for public meeting number three in the middle of July to say, Tada, here it is but more importantly did we get it right did we miss anything do we pull the right pieces from the options and make the right Frankenstein monster out of it. So then, again, we'll get more feedback in that third public meeting, and then sort of integrated all together into the final completed plan which will be sometime in August that'll be unveiled. I want to I want to thank town meeting TV channel 17 for streaming this public event. They are on YouTube, and we've got a couple of schedule questions that would be great to answer will future public meetings present what the near and long term goals focus of this redevelopment area, based on what information and comments gathered to date. Amen, you want to feel that. Yeah, that's exactly what we will be doing in the next meeting I think I sort of touched on it but the sort of the planning or the projected future or options for this park will be exactly what we're talking about next. And you ask about near and long term and that is part of our work is thinking about the funding and phasing and when this, this bigger vision or how this bigger vision gets implemented. So, so that'll be a mix of near term wins and mid term projects and then longer term goals to Joanne Kalish asked, Can you continue research and plan development through September. I expect amount and type of usage will change as school ends whether gets warmer summer people come in, and hopefully coven social distancing is no longer a factor that could skew your data. I can I would let John or Sophie answer the ability to stretch the schedule but Joanne it's interesting that we're all living through coven and it's been hard to be separate from all these wonderful people that I work with and love so much. And also to miss being in person and having these community voices heard and seeing your faces that being said, it would be very rare in the pre coven days that we would get attendance this good at a public meeting so oddly enough. This format, and this is true for many other projects has really brought in a lot more voices than we've heard in the past which is kind of exhilarating for us to get that much more feedback. So I would just challenge that idea that coven is making it hard for us to hear voices. And I'd add to that, amen that part of having the staff and the people who are have spent a lot of time at Perkins pier, whether working or being neighbors or in the vicinity of Perkins pier who are offering the feedback. I've also been the eyes and ears of what's used on the site and how people have used this space pre coven. So I think, for the most part that information is being collected and I know that coven skews kind of, if you're observing it right now but agency is not. I'm also unfamiliar to this site pre coven so I think just take that into consideration in terms of the timeline I don't think. It's not because I'm against pushing out the timeline but I just think right now we're recording basically, you know how the site works how it doesn't work, and we'll be jumping into the development of the the citing setting plan so at the tail end won't necessarily be the time to observe it from a from a post coven perspective but I certainly we certainly appreciate any thoughts that people have about. What we anticipate the uses will be after coven and things go back to normal or some normal sorry. I had a couple additional questions come in another one from Andy Simon what are the major tensions between among goals and plans for Perkins that emerge that are emerging from your work so far. I can start that if anyone else wants to add to it jump in. I know that there have been major tensions at this at this point, I think a couple of factors are a play when it comes to Perkins one is the wastewater treatment plant there's a mix of feelings about the proximity. Another point out is that through the bike path realignment and the incorporation of Amtrak sliver of the eastern portion of Perkins will need to hold the realigned La Valley lane that allows us to access our wastewater treatment plant and VRS to access their rail yard. There is also a hypothetical proposal from DPW wastewater. That shows some use of a portion of Perkins for expansion of their facility. Those are a couple of things that I see as needing to be balanced between the park side of Perkins and the more industrial uses still happening. Yeah. You know, Taylor Kalish says, can you please continue zoom meetings after COVID. I would say, yes, I think we can be nice to pepper them with some in person meetings of course, too. PM and 30 minutes past sunset in exchange for a tax break of some sort. Steve's always innovating. We can certainly take that suggestion. That is a really good idea. That's what I'm seeing for questions in the Q&A. And I think it's important to note that Diana has put in a link in the chat for any project related information after this meeting that will be uploaded as we keep the study going and also a recording of this session will be uploaded. So if you're looking for that web link, it's in the chat. Any final questions? I think. Yeah, we're wrapped up on the stream on channel 17 in YouTube. Great. Well, I would just say thank you to everybody who participated, made the time to join us this evening and provide a lot of feedback and ideas. And we look forward to seeing you at our next public meeting and we're always welcome to suggestions and ideas. My phone number is on the slide and as well as my email, please reach out if something comes to mind or you want to be added to a mail list to be sure to be alerted to the next public meeting. And thank you so much to agency, our consultant on the project and their sub consultants obviously who put a lot of time and effort and thought into the presentation and the format tonight. Really appreciate it. And of course, the parks team that joined us to support the project and help us feel the lot of the questions that presented themselves. Really appreciate it. Thank you.