 This is JSA TV and JSA Podcasts, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Carl Sketchley, and on behalf of the team here at JSA, welcome to our July virtual round table. Over the past few months, we have been running a special series analyzing the effects of the COVID-19 fallout on our industry. Thank you to everyone who joined us on that journey. But as we've all been reminded recently, our industry continues to face the ongoing challenge of safeguarding our network infrastructure in today's rapidly evolving world. For the next 45 minutes, we will come together as one network infrastructure community to engage with top industry thought leaders on this subject. As a little sunshine, hopefully at your door today, we provided lunch, or if you chose a gift card to a local restaurant for the first 100 registrants. So for those of you who received, please enjoy your JSA lunch while we get started. Just a quick reminder, this is of course a round table. We do want to hear from you and answer your questions. So please go ahead and type them into our question box. Time permitting, we will answer them here. But of course, in the last 15 minutes of the hour, we will be taking our conversation over to LinkedIn for a chat with our speakers. Just search for hashtag JSA virtual round tables and our feed will come up or click on the direct link that we will be sharing in our chat box shortly. Once there, we will be reviewing the questions that we don't get a chance to cover in the next 45 minutes. So go ahead, post your own questions and thoughts to our panelists there as well. If you have a speaker suggestion for next time or simply to register for our upcoming monthly virtual round tables, visit jsa.net. Our next one up, we'll be taking a look at top tips for hurricane season network preparedness. That round table is August 20th at 1 p.m. Eastern time. Check it out and register. Now, let's get started. Today's topic, safeguarding our network infrastructure in today's brave new world. And for today's chat, we have over 200 registrants joining us. Thank you for your continued support. And thank you as well to our all-star panelists here today to help us introduce them and to guest moderate. Please welcome Jeff Omalchuk, Executive Director of Infrastructure Masons. Jeff, thank you so much for joining us today. The floor is yours. Carl, thanks very much. And I wanted to thank everybody at JSA for making this opportunity available to all of us here. It's great to be here. It's a sunny, beautiful day and things could be worse. So thanks so much for having us. And thanks to all the attendees for joining. It's great to have people coming together as a community in these times. I want to thank particularly our panelists and I'll go around and let them introduce themselves in a minute. Let me introduce myself first a little bit. My name is Jeff Omalchuk, as Carl said. I'm one of two Executive Directors at Infrastructure Masons. The other being my colleague Simon Allen who's based in London. I'm in Portland, Oregon. And Infrastructure Masons is an association of people in digital infrastructure. It's association of people like you, the builders of the digital age. And would love to have you all join I Masons. So let me ask our panelists to introduce themselves. I'll call you out one at a time. Eric, do you want to start? Absolutely. Good afternoon and I look forward to our discussion day. My name is Eric Dahl. I'm the Vice President of Business Development for Strategic Venue Partners. And we offer wireless infrastructure as a managed service, basically the fourth utility. We manage the entire development process, the initial design system commissioning to monitoring maintenance and repairing the system 24-7. We basically fund 100% of your distributed network system. No wireless carrier contributions are required, ensuring time for certainty of delivery. We have SVP technology, we can do DAS, CBRS, the on-go private LTE network, Wi-Fi, public safety systems, IPTV. So we bring all of our carriers day one. We look forward to the discussion today. Thanks, Eric. Sam? Hi, I'm Sam Reagan. Glad to be here. I'm the Business Development Manager with ColoATL, which is a data center in downtown Atlanta, as well as ColoATL is owned by American Tower. And we're also in the process of introducing micro-edge data centers into our tower infrastructure all over the country. Thank you very much. Great. Chris? Christopher? Christopher Lodge, Interim CEO and COO for United Fiber and Data. We are a, I'll call it super regional because of the span that we encompass from New York City down to the data center capital of Ashburn, Virginia. And we provide both dark and lit services on an alternative route of the I-95 Route 1 corridor. Great. And Suji? Hi, Jeff. Thank you for having us here. I'm Suji Tanda. I'm the CDI of BDX. BDX is a data center, a Spanish data center company with assets spread across China. We have two large assets in China. We have a presence in Hong Kong and Singapore. And we are expanding toward the emerging promise of Asia. Great. Well, a really impressive group of panelists. Thank you all for joining. So I want to kick off the discussion with just, you know, a personal story. So I'm an avid cyclist. And I recently began using a Garmin cycle computer with a radar tail light, which is pretty cool because as you're writing, it tracks on your display on your handlebars, cars approaching from behind you. It's cool and it's amazing and it works really well. I've really enjoyed it. And I went for a ride the other last week, actually. And when I got back, it's supposed to sync your ride data to, you know, your profile thing. And it wasn't doing it. And I didn't think too much of it, but I heard later that day about the ransomware attack on Garmin. That was a wasted locker ransomware attack that really took down their entire system. So my service is back up, but I don't think even quite all of Garmin services are yet up. I understand they've actually paid the ransom to get their data restored and they're still struggling, I believe. So, you know, I use Garmin for recreation for just fitness cycling and recreation cycling, but they also host services for pilots, both, I think primarily small plane pilots. They host a back country wilderness rescue service called Inreach that people rely on for their lives and they have a Garmin pay system that presumably has credit card information. So, you know, this outage didn't affect me all that much, but man, it could have had real consequences and we may learn that it has, I don't really know. So my first question to the panel, this really brought digital security home to me and my first question to the panel is, you know, has logical security and resilience improved enough to keep hackers out? Are they always gonna be ahead of us? Who's beating who here? Let's start with Sujit, you wanna go first? Yeah, I kind of, you know, the way I look at this is that you need to look at the attack continuum, right? Saying that are the hackers ahead of us, I think, you know, you will never be able to arrive at a definitive answer to that, right? So instead of trying to say that I will protect my assets, you have to be prepared for what are you doing before, which means how do you protect, right? What do you do if you are under attack, which is during an attack, right? What is the BCP plan that you have, right? So if you just spoke about Garmin, so there is a ransomware attack, you have a data protected offsite, can you actually bring that on and actually isolate the ransomware affected systems? So that's what you do during and what you do after the attack. So what do you learn during this attacks and what is the steps that it will take to ensure that this doesn't happen again? So unless and until you prepare for the attack continuum, you're never going to be saying that I will be ahead of somebody, things will keep changing and the pandemic has taught us that, right? So cyber resilience is what I talk about and that's where we need to get to instead of trying to talk about cyber security only. And that's what you're doing in BDX, the talk about cyber resilience. That's interesting. Christopher, any comments? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think he's spot on. I think it's interesting though that everybody that's looked at moving to a cloud-based system and how it's made the industry vulnerable is interesting. I know we look at a lot, what are the interfaces? How many APIs you start looking at some of these systems out there that are just running or have the ability to run 100 plus APIs into it? And I think it just opens it up. But I think as he touched on to the most important, and I know we talked very briefly before, what can we do to learn from it? We don't publish anything about it. Everybody wants to keep it hush-hush in the back room that we got attacked or what our vulnerability is. I think if there was, I think Jeff, you had mentioned an anonymous way to put that information out there and allow others to learn from it. What happened? What can we do to prevent it? You know, and again, as he said, I don't think we'll, you know, will we be ahead? Will they be ahead? I think it's an effort-moving scale. Yeah, yeah. Sam, do you have any comments on either, you know, who's beating who and who will beat who or what can we do as a community to learn from each other's mistakes? I think it's hard for us as, you know, companies to stay ahead because we have to be right all the time and they only have to be right once, right? They can continue, continue, continue to attack. They only have to be right once. We have to be right all the time. So I think it's very difficult for, you know, enterprise companies to defend everything all the time. And I think that any CISO that you talk to, it's not if we're going to get, it's when we're going to get. And, you know, what do we do to help mitigate it, like Sam Jean said. So I think that's really the key is, you know, do everything you can to protect within what happens when it happens. And I agree if there was some way to share all this information, that would be great. Unfortunately, I don't think everybody wants to be first. Yeah. You know, some people I hear often about, you know, AI is going to, you know, maybe be the ultimate weapon to protect us from these things, although AI will be a pretty formidable foe as well. And we, you know, the good guys won't be the only ones to have AI. So Eric, do you have any comment on any of this? You know, I agree with the panelists at this point. And, you know, I concentrate a little bit in the healthcare sector. And, you know, the healthcare sector is a very highly targeted sector. And just to give you a couple of stats, in 216, 27 million patient records were hacked, 5.6 million in 217, 15 million in 18, 41 million in 219. I mean, it's just absolutely incredible. And what you don't realize is that it's the second targeted profit center for the black market because of all that healthcare data, which has social security, personal information, phone and the like. So it's an absolute problem that a space that I'm in all the time, absolutely has to get a hand on it. Do I think we have the upper hand? Absolutely not. Wow. So being from the healthcare sector, that kind of brings us around to, as Carl kind of introduced the panel, one of the focuses is just how the world is different. It has changed so much in the last four months with the COVID onset, both we were talking before the panel kicked off about, you know, the economic impacts. But, you know, there are other impacts as well. As an example, we've driven so many, you know, people online because it's the only way to interact. And so many of them are relatively inexperienced users. I'd be interested in you all's opinion if this presents new challenges for security, just the shifting use of the infrastructure. Eric, do you have any comments on that? Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that, you know, there's two schools of thought. The one, of course, that my company's most interested in is the infrastructure, you know, on site. And, you know, if that infrastructure isn't updated, no matter what venue you're in, whether in hospitality, healthcare, retail, what have you, you know, it sets yourself up for security breaches and attacks. And so, you know, I think 5G will be a big help for us from a security standpoint. I'd also put out there that, you know, people have relied on Wi-Fi over the last number of years and Wi-Fi is definitely not one of the secure architectures out there. So, people just don't realize that the breaches that happen in that space are there. So I think, you know, 5G will definitely help us. And I know that's one of the things that we're targeting from a healthcare, hospitality, educational system in order to bring that infrastructure up to date. So that will limit the incidents of it, as well as have private LTE as well as carrier LTE service, which is more secure than typical Wi-Fi. Yeah, good points. Christopher, what are you thinking about 5G? I, again, I mean, we all know 5G is, I'll call it the buzzword of the last two years, for sure. I definitely think it's going to help the industry. We're already seeing some of it. But I also think it brings a whole new level of physical security. Now we have that many more devices planted out there because of the densification that we need with 5G radios. So now we're getting into a whole nother level, you know, back to the earlier question that you had Jeff on, you know, security in general. Now we've got to secure those devices. We've seen some of the things, there's a, you know, myths out there about what 5G is doing and things like that. But I'm curious, you know, what the industry around the 5G and, you know, DAS and things like that are going to do, is it going to be sensor monitoring, you know, integrated cameras, you know, things like that? I don't think you're going to stop everything, but now we've just taken a city that might have had, you know, 100 vulnerable points to 5,000 vulnerable points within a, you know, within a major city. Right, and that's not going to change, I don't think, with the kind of push to the edge. I think not only what we've seen more sensors in the urban environment, as you said, from, you know, a few thousand to potentially millions, we'll also see more compute infrastructure built out in those environments. If there's a, you know, a rack of servers in every Starbucks or Whole Foods, what happens to physical security then? Suji, you look like you want to jump in. Yeah, that's correct. I mean, that's, I come from a telecom background, then move to data center. So the way I look at 5G is that, you know, you perhaps, you know, 4G itself, you know, attack the number of vectors that you have for attack increased in 4G, right? Now 5G means that what you could do in three years, if you were released, if you're getting to a couple of billion devices in three to five years, you in 5G you will get to a billion device in less than a year, right? So that's what 5G is going to bring us. That's the first piece. The second piece is how do we look at, you know, the mobile edge? So in the data center industry, 5G will ensure that the edge becomes bigger growth area than the core, right? So the core feeds into the edge. Now, interestingly, what it means is for, from an attack surface perspective, if I'm somebody who wants to attack, right? It gives me the dimensions that it gives me is 100 times, right? So the world will become, like I say, universal security is one thing that we talk about, right? It will become universally vulnerable. So everybody will become, so I can actually launch an attack. Just if I look at a city, I will pick up the least pieces. I will pick up the alarm bells to launch an attack, right? So I'm no longer looking at laptops or mobile phones or iPads to have watts. I will look at IoT devices to have watts. And that means that, you know, for me to get to those numbers, I just need to scan, you know, look at what is happening, what's where, the vulnerabilities in the firmware, and get a million devices in a day's time. That's what 5G could do to us. Yeah, well, Sam, I wanted to get your thoughts. You work with Colo Atlanta, and like Christopher, you guys are involved with 5G and towers, and we recently heard of, you know, people burning down 5G towers over concern of God knows what actually, but I don't know if you have any comment on security in this age. Yeah, so a lot of our tower infrastructure, American Tower, we have, you know, 50,000 towers in the US, 180,000 towers globally, a lot of it's in rural areas. So we do have security, we have fencing, we have barbed wire, we have cameras at most of the site. So we are doing everything that we can to make sure that those facilities are secure. We're also now building these micro-edge data centers at the same facilities also. And so that gives us another level of security because there's more cameras, you know, two-factor authentication to get into those. And so we are very concerned about the physical security. More infrastructure to risk too, if you're putting more assets at the site, yeah. Yeah, so we're definitely looking at, we have 24 by seven monitoring of those facilities and we're making sure that, you know, you have to make a phone call to get in the gate and you have to have two-factor authentication to get into the data centers. So we're really trying to push the core data center security out to the edge as well, not just the compute and the storage. Yeah, yeah, so I want to open it up a little bit and just have a more open discussion about, and maybe we start with the topic, you know, to your mind, what's the greatest risk to the security of digital infrastructure in the next, say, three years? Does anybody want to start the discussion? I would say it's continued to be what it is now, right? I think that, you know, especially with COVID, like you said, we've pushed a bunch, all these employees out to their homes and they're not really as security conscious as they were before. And I don't think we've done a good job of locking down all those systems, people using their personal devices, like we said before, to access their business applications. And I'm not sure all the companies have caught up with that yet. So, you know, the phishing attacks and all those things that are going on, I'm assuming are being much more successful today because there's twice as many devices out there being used as they were, you know, six months ago. So I think we're going to continue this, I don't see this changing very much in the next two or three years. I think we're going to have to really look at all the security for every single device that every single employee has, whether they're personal or whether they're business. Yeah, and I would add to that, you know, Jeff, I mean, you look at now IT managers and, you know, starting my career in that field, you're not just now managing, you know, your building or your two buildings or the devices on your building, you're now managing all the devices that are sitting out there, you know, so you have 3,000 devices, that's fine if they're all consolidated into a couple of buildings, but now you have 3,000 devices sitting across 3,000 different networks. I always tell people, you know, from somebody that's traveled a ton in my career, go open your laptop up in a neighborhood and look at the number of networks that list up that you could connect to. And I'm still amazed to this day how many are not secure and or they have the security symbol next to it, but how easy it is to really connect to them, you know, and then one of the things that, you know, Sam mentioned about, you know, the increase in attacks, I read a very interesting statistic. Normally we measure things, oh, that went up 10%, 20%. Spear phishing email attacks have increased 667% since COVID, you know, not 5%, 10%. I mean, that alone, you know, for an IT manager or a security manager in a corporate environment. And then, like I said, the devices now, you know, where I'm sitting, you know, I got kids that are doing school or whatever the case may be, a spouse working remotely all, we're all on the same network. So I think it's gonna be real challenging for, you know, the IT infrastructure manager. And we've heard for, you know, since the beginning of cybersecurity that actually people are one of the biggest risks. And, you know, as you said, as we bring more people into using the network and using it from unsecured locations on home computers, we are our biggest problem, you know. I think AI will play a huge role in it. You know, as we discussed earlier, I mean, it's got its own challenges, but I think that's going to, I don't think it's gonna be the savior for it, but I think it's going to help, you know, the IT manager or enterprise manager as that progresses. And do you think the good guys can use AI to advantage better than the bad guys? And, you know, when I asked that question, I'm acutely aware, I don't know if you read Kai Fu Li's book about the AI race between the US and China. And, you know, one source of, you know, bad actor are, you know, private entrepreneurs, let's say, but there's also state sponsored, you know, attacks and some of the state sponsors certainly have very advanced AI and maybe actually ahead of the US as a, you know, as a developed country. So I wonder what AI is gonna do to the security landscape, you know, will it be a net help or, you know, can AI engineer attacks that we are simply incapable of dealing with? It's, I mean, it's a good, I mean, it's definitely a good topic. I think if you look back at all the greatest technologies that we've seen, they're as much of a pro they are, they are a con because it gives other people the same tools. So it's, you know, if you would have said to me 15 years ago in my career or 20 or even 10, I mean, now you got these things out there fakes and deep fakes, you know, people creating videos and sound bites that sound like politicians and celebrities and things like that, that, you know, we were gonna have to defend against things like that. I would have said, you know, you're ridiculous but I also would have said the same thing about, you know, you would have pitched TikTok to me, you know, 10 years ago and look where that's going. The one comment I'd make on AI is that although it will help both the good guys and the bad guys, it also gives additional access points to a network. So, you know, if you think of all the AI in just a hospital environment, medical facility, you name it, it just doubles, triples and quadruples the amount of access points that, you know, the network can become vulnerable. An interesting stat that I read this morning, which I just was blown away at, that just came out that if you look at the healthcare data breach, it's the most expensive per breach incident at $7 million and it outpaces that by 10% of over last year. When you think about that and the number of incidents this year or 2019, there were 572 data breaches in the healthcare data industry. Just look at them up, crazy. I'm not a security expert, I just deploy infrastructure that hopefully that works and is secure. Yeah. Well, I think Jeff, one comment that I would want to go in is that you spoke about the fact of one of the three or four big things that the COVID thing, when you look at the pandemic, what has it got to the four? One of the things that I think, instead of looking at what are the big issues or the big security risks, I look at what is the solution to that? So one of the big things that, at least we tell our customers at BDX is because we specialize a security solution and try to go and tell our customers, how do you protect yourselves? In respect of, this happened, we created the product much before the pandemic, but how do you look at identity? At the end of the day, if you can recognize who's doing what, it's a camera that is trying to access a network or if it is a human that is trying to access a network and if it is a human, who is he? So our focus to security starts from that. So BDX armor that we speak about, we start talking about it in terms of who is the person? What's the identity? If I can manage the identity of that person, then, and I use a reputation database to look at the identity, then I think we've looked at 30 to 40% of the problem being solved, right? So that's our first focus area identity. So I look at that as among top three solutions to the problems that we face. And we've seen so many jurisdictions, particularly in the US and in Europe, going away from some of the identity basings, facial recognition and other things, to understand the identity of people and places like China that have done such a great job of managing COVID through security means that many in the US, as an example, would find unacceptable. I mean, that certainly had health implications because we're unwilling to go there. But again, Kai-Fu Li in his book, The AI Superpowers made the point that, AI and AI development, the fuel for AI is data and databases on which to learn. And China is way ahead of any of the rest of the world in collecting data and feeding that into the AI engine. I thought it was a fascinating book. And his conclusion is that China's gonna beat the West in the AI war, and he has the background to have an informed opinion. I thought it was a fascinating book. I don't know if anybody has any comment on any of that as it relates to security in particular. Well, that's an interesting thing. I mean, how do you balance privacy with identity, right? And then you look at a global company like us, right? How do you look at bringing a reputation and signature with the AI engine that builds up reputation, right? And without infringing on the privacy piece, right? So, and that's where we've done some really good work and created our entire security architecture based on that, because the fact that if you put the China way, you will not probably be able to look at a global customer base. And we have a pretty much top names in the industry. So they will not look to us in terms of providing solutions with respect to BDX armor. If I go and say, hey, you know, we a little bit here and there as far as privacy is concerned, that might not sail through, right? So we're very concerned in terms of the way identity is used, but there are a lot of ways that you can use the AI which you brought out very clearly in terms of looking at an identity signature which can be anonymized. And that's where we have specialized it. Interesting. Eric, you've brought out a number of points specific to the healthcare sector. And I wasn't, some of the sort of level of breach and the impact of breaches in the health care sector is to be candid, a little bit of news to me, I'm more familiar with some of the big commercial breaches that we read about, but what do you think are some of the top challenges that healthcare networks face, particularly as a result of the COVID epidemic? Yeah, I think one of the biggest thing that all healthcare networks are feeling the pain now is the distribution of all of their remote employees, their laptops, their networks. And you've really seen kind of a lull in the last couple of months, but just yesterday or the day before, lifespan, which is a system up in Rhode Island had to pay $1.4 million on one laptop that was disposed of improperly, that was unsecured and didn't have the correct encryption. And so you'll see HIPAA and the office of, who else is doing it, the Office for Civil Rights, I mean, they're gonna start levying some just massive fines. And that's gonna catch the attention of these IT directors that they've gotta get their houses in line. And if they don't, it's gonna be a very expensive lesson to learn. Unfortunately. And I just bring up those two examples just because I came up on one of my feeds this morning and I'm going, well, this is a perfect topic for today. And that's one laptop, one laptop. 1.1 million, 400,000, Ms. Grace. I just think the way the networks are structured, you can listen to all of them if you go into Becker's or whoever, you see all these CIOs coming out and saying, look, we've deployed all these devices out in the field and we didn't have a choice. Now we're in a motive like, did we do it right? What do we have to mop up? What do we have to fix? It's gonna be an ongoing issue from now until a long time. I thought to Suji's earlier point that is, that, I think every IT director is, loses sleep over, what if it happens to me? Trust it, it will happen to you. So, just to develop those plans, what do you do then, have those plans in place? Yeah, it's not if it's when. I mean, that's the attitude you have to take. Absolutely. I think one of the toughest things that we do as a company is to try to convince an IT organization within a healthcare environment that hasn't had surgeries going on so their revenues are falling, they're dealing with COVID, and now all of a sudden it's time to rebuild this infrastructure and they're like, I don't know where to go. But if you don't do it, then you're back in the same situation you were prior to COVID. So, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Yeah. So Sam, are there anything special in the Atlanta area that, how are these challenges affecting you guys? Yeah, I think that for our KoloATL business, we've just seen a big influx of customers buying more bandwidth in general, adding more carriers, buying more bandwidth, adding more capacity into their networks that they have. And I think so, unlike the rest of the economy, we've been on a kind of a slow steady growth phase during this whole thing, which is great for us, but I just think that we're gonna continue that. And in the American Tower business, the same thing with the 5G rollout and all the new communication infrastructure that's going in, we're continuing to grow during this whole process. So, we're probably one of the few right spots that is out there because just what we do. You know, at I-Mason's, we had a set of meetings, global member summits. And the first one was focused on the Americas region. And one of the speakers was Noel Walsh, the head of cloud infrastructure for Microsoft. And this was April 22nd. So, a little early in the pen, it had fully set on, but kind of right in the upswing, I'll say. And we were talking about increased traffic. And she said, within Microsoft, they had ramped up their capacity by 100 megawatts in two weeks, increased capacity. And they were able, you know, her infrastructure group was able to deliver that. I thought, wow, holy cow. You know, change your base load by 100 megawatts and pull it off in two weeks. That's impressive. It's a big, it's a big capable team, but geez. That's a lot. That's a lot of data center. Yeah. What does anybody else see in terms of just volume increase and it's a funny industry to be in this times. I hear so much, you know, paying an economic devastation and then to be in our little bubble of infrastructure here and to see the, as you said, not only steady growth, but rock being growth. And in some ways, I, you know, I think it was April where I read that the market cap of Zoom who'd been in business, I don't know, a year or something. And I forgot what that exactly, but it was, but exceeded that of one of the big oil companies, three of the biggest airlines and, you know, a few other kind of traditional businesses combined. It's like in a year from launch, it's like, wow, what economic upheaval we're hearing. Geez, it's incredible. Yeah, Jeff. I mean, we haven't seen a ton of change in traffic. We've seen a ton in the traffic patterns. So the push versus the pull, residential versus the, you know, the business side, obviously residential is going up, you know, tenfold where, you know, business bandwidth has gone down. I think, you know, and I'm pleasant, I was pleasantly surprised, you know, to be deep into this. And I think a lot of people expected certain things to crash and, you know, burn to the ground as a result of everybody going home to work. And it was quite the opposite. I mean, yes, were there pixelation and some bandwidth issues across different networks? Absolutely. You know, I think the security aspects out of it for now, but I think a lot of people were pleasantly surprised that most networks held their own just the way the patterns had shifted. But I think it's going to get a little more interesting now with how that shift, as I said earlier, you know, with people being home and the devices and the security aspect of it. I think that's where it's gonna be our biggest challenges over the next 36 months is definitely on security. I think, you know, the industry has learned and I mean, there's enough big companies out there we need bandwidth. Like you said, Microsoft, you know, added, you know, a megawatt upon megawatt, you know, at a blink of an eye, we could add capacity, you know, we just launched a lit services network that is capable of 400G. Next year, it'll do 600G, be able to turn that up, you know, at the flick of a finger as well. But now I got to secure it all. I'm worried and I made a small, you know, list and, you know, preparing for this, things like, I know, probably like a lot of you, I can go on an app on my phone and unlock my car doors, remote start the car. You know, what happens as that expands and gets more, the other one that I noted, supply chain hacks or attacks. Now with all this at home, I don't know, everybody listening, probably like my house, Amazon's here quite a bit, you know, dropping something off at the door. Again, that's part of that supply chain. You know, what happens when that gets attacked or, you know, there's a detriment to that industry. You know, the FedEx is the UPS is DHL's, the Postal Service, down to the manufacturing side of it. AI, 5G, as we talked, down to even, you know, biometric with, you know, my earlier topic of, you know, fakes and deep fakes. How can you now surpass biometrics? Because some points to people to start to consider. Yeah, it's a brave new world indeed. The name of this webinar is crazy. So, you know, one of the other things that I want to look at is, you know, Chris actually brought it very, very, you know, pointed, pointedly, is what's happening on the IoT world, right? So you look at, you know, just look at the data center industry, what we focused on, the network is going, you spoke about Microsoft, you spoke about 100 megawatt in a couple of weeks, and that's huge, right? And you're talking about a couple of terabytes of, you know, network bandwidth increase in a data center. And we've seen that, right? So that's a huge amount of, so if I look at my Singapore facility, we've got around 11-0 operators out there, right? In the MMR room. You've seen everybody making good money, right? So when we looked at how we run our data centers, we believe on minimally manned data centers. We use a lot of IoT in our data centers, a lot of automation in our data centers, which means if this is hacked, this entire facility could go down just like that. So how do you ensure that, you know, you look at securing all of these, not with the thought that, you know, it's never going to happen. I've put up the best in place. We look at, you know, what happens if this spot gets hacked? So what's the next piece? So making a failsafe data center is all about looking at what if this happens? Not about, you know, if you think that I've got it in control. You never get it in control. Yeah. Well, Eric, I want to maybe wrap with, to invite you to give us any, you know, wisdom from the healthcare sector in this time of COVID, with I imagine not only are the, you know, direct service providers, you know, the doctors and nurses and staff under stress in the healthcare sector. And we all, you know, admire their service and dedication, but I imagine the IT side of healthcare is stressing right now too. Any comments there? Yeah. So I've got both personal and professional experiences. My wife is a COO and a CNO of University of North Carolina healthcare system here. And so I watch her come home every day after dealing with just crazy loads of stress based on patients, you know, staff, visitors, what have you. If you haven't thanked a healthcare hero, you better do it because they put up with a lot of stuff that nobody ever sees. It's just crazy. And then professionally, the good news is that hospitals are starting to accept visitors, accept, you know, business meetings, it's still pretty virtual, but, you know, I've got a few things scheduled the next few weeks where I'm actually going to be walking into a few hospitals and, you know, I've been in the healthcare space for 30 plus years. So it's a space I'm very familiar with and not afraid. And there's a lot of misinformation out there. So educate yourself. That's all I can say. I appreciate the opportunity today. Well, I think we'll let this wrap up the discussion. Let's all thank our healthcare providers and the frontline workers. And I think our industry deserves to be thanked as well. We are the builders of the digital age and without the work that everybody on this call does every day, we wouldn't be having this, you know, go-to-meeting conference, this virtual conference. So let's recognize the good work that we all do and thank the healthcare workers. So I want to thank Sam and Eric and Christopher and Sujit for joining the panel today. And Carl, do you have a segue here to usher people off to the LinkedIn discussion? Absolutely. Yes, again, thank you everyone for your insight and time on spending with us today on this panel. You know, I think it was being a very informative panel overall. I just want to, you know, once again, shout out to you, Jeff as executive director of infrastructure masons for keeping us on point today. And yes, absolutely. Our speakers are staying on for the remainder of the lunch hour. We're moving over towards LinkedIn. Just search for hashtag JSA virtual roundtables or click the direct link that was placed in the chat box to continue the Q and A. And of course, if you were one of our first 100 registrants, we hope you enjoyed your lunch. Go ahead and visit us at jsa.net to register for upcoming JSA virtual roundtables, including our next one on August 20th, which will be offering tips for hurricane network preparedness. Well, that's a wrap. Look out for the playback of today's roundtable coming soon to JSA TV and JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify, and more. In the meantime, see you over on LinkedIn. Happy networking. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks everyone.