 to Cooper Union, what's happening with human rights around the world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, in Moana, New York. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. And the title of today's special episode is a special on war and global warming, the Ukraine conflict and the climate crisis. Punish Putin profoundly by going green. Joining me today is Svetlana Romanco, an amazing environmental lawyer and strategist. And Svetlana, thank you so much for joining us. And we know we're approaching the two months commemoration of the conflict. How are you holding up as most of the rest of the world is looking towards Earth Day? Yes, thank you so much, Joshua, for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be with you today and discuss such a relevant issues. And yes, indeed, it's 37, 57th day of the war in Ukraine. And it's absolutely clear that these war aggression under the direction of Vladimir Putin was just, still is a clear war against Ukraine's sovereignty and independence as well as a gray violation of human rights, international law and global peace. And first of all, these invasion confronts Europe with its darkest hours of the 21st century and confronts the whole overall world with a greener future. As our famous IPCC scientists from Ukraine, Svetlana Krakowska said, that the fossil fuels on climate crisis and war in Ukraine have the same roots and these roots are fossil fuels. And actually what the regime of Vladimir Putin is a clear and sole aggressor in this illegal war and bears full responsibility for the atrocities committed by its war machine. And saying so, we've just understand that these war machine has been funded fat and fueled by the coal, oil and gas industries that are driving both the invasions that threatens Ukraine and the climate crisis that threatens humanity's future. So to end these, we've launched a global coal stand with Ukraine, which has been highly supported all over the world by 760 organizations from 60 countries, over 60 countries from Mongolia and to Pacific countries as well. And all these countries are demanding to drain Putin's war chest and imposing embargo on Russia's fossil fuels all over the world, as especially we demand this from the European countries because the European Union is the major importer of Russian oil and gas. And since the war started, they sent 35 billion of euros in payments for Russia's oil and gas. So it's definitely clear that Russia is the third global emitter of greenhouse gases. And it was not going to reduce emissions anytime soon because Russia has a huge resources of oil, gas and coal. And that happens is that these fossil fuels were against Ukraine because they led Putin to build its military buildup for the years, selling gas and oil to Europe. So what we did with the Stand with Ukraine campaign, we called upon the governments within the European Union and outside of the European Union to reject and ban any import of fossil fuels from Russia and rapidly phase out fossil fuels. And also we called to stop all trade and end investment in gas from Rosneft, Transneft and any other companies from Russia, freeze the assets of such companies outside Russia as well as freezing other Russian fossil fuel assets. And Western companies, we called them, have to stop fossil fuel production in Russia as well. So our idea, which was really just simple and obvious was to dry out Putin's income streams as soon as possible, and which includes tackling direct investments into fossil fuel infrastructure in Russia. But that's just ending with that it's an imperative that the world not simply replace Russian produced fossil fuels in particular fossil gas with fossil fuels from other countries in particular liquefied natural gas. Because as we know from the modern history that fossil fuels have financed many conflicts around the world in different parts of the world. Of course in Argentina, of course in Africa, in Asia and in many, many other countries. And we would like to avoid this harmful destruction in any other conflict areas and the war in Ukraine at the same time because our country was severely damaged and destroyed and the rest cities 90% destroyed. And we just call on global community to help Ukraine to help Ukraine in the way we all can just to ask our deputies and governments to embargo fossil fuels from Russia and not to replace them with other fossil fuels and all new investments into Russia's fossil fuels as well. Thank you so much. And you really did connect even though the conflict is there in Ukraine and we know how much you're going through how it really is the energy system is global and how fossil fuels are toxic. And as long as people are addicted more people around the world will face exploitation and have to fight for their rights the same way that the Ukrainians are now. We also know, as you pointed out 60% of Putin's economy is entirely oil and gas. That's what Russia is doing pumping oil and gas. So Putin now use it as a threat to turn off the spigot to Europe but on the other hand we could actually reverse that by showing the power of the people to actually go renewable and then actually embark on a new direction for all of humanity. Yes, that's true. We can do that. And actually saying so, I would like also to acknowledge that governments are still ignoring the science and keep expanding the problem for a moment. I mean the fossil fuel exploration because they're just public and private finance still flow to fossil fuels and they are still greater than those for climate adaptation and mitigation. And even in the European Union they paid for Russia's fossil fuels three times much more money that they just collected and funded for humanitarian aid for Ukraine being in the midst of four. So this is not fair and this is not what we call justice. And governments must work together to make the transition equitable and avoid stranded assets because the combined value of the stranded assets has been estimated at one to $4 trillion and a global treaty. And I will name a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty is required to manage this risk and allows the transition to happen. At this scale they're required to tackle climate crisis. And fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty it's a global framework which actually are important for me to recognize now as being a historically important framework to stop proliferation of the weapon of mass destruction. It's from the past about nuclear weapons but as we see from now the fossil fuels have already become a weapon of mass destruction destroying Ukrainian economy right now but what's more important and much more poignant destroying in Ukrainian cities and killing thousands of civilians creating and bringing incredible violence and the dreadful violence to the land. So it definitely has to stop. And actually world has enough renewable energy potential in every region not to continue with a fossil fuel and climate hostile wars and we can meet our energy needs with existing technologies. What we are calling to the consumers to citizens in different countries just please help us to impose embargo by consuming less energy because the less energy you consume just slightly decrease your heating at the house or your air conditioning same the less energy you consume the more energy you use from renewable energy sources it helps and war in Ukraine because as easily government will impose embargo and say no to fossil fuels and they can easily more easily phase out fossil fuels. So both ends are very important and actually it's also important how we replace the gas heating with heat pumps that can be largely imported from the US and how can we make our home insulated better for energy efficiency and for all of these directions. No it's really amazing that you're connecting all the dots but also empowering everyone to be able to take action just by shifting to renewable energy. The war in Ukraine is truly connected to global warming and everyone around the earth can protect the planet and more important save lives by going green. Looking at the statistics the world uses 100 million bears of oil every day. So to save our world fossil fuel consumption must decrease drastically and we really appreciate you bringing up the fossil free non-proliferation treaty and so Ukraine activists are sharing strategies for sustainable future for all so the world isn't held hostage by totalitarian regimes and multinational corporations. And it was great that you mentioned the fossil free non-proliferation treaty. We actually have been able to pass that in the state of Hawaii from the Senate to the house and today at 1.30 will be a hearing in the house the final hearing and then hopefully it will then go back to the Senate and we'll become the first state in the US to actually take action as a sub-national entity. And we know looking at the Paris Agreement that was the one puka or hole as we say in Hawaii that we're not doing enough on fossil fuel and there was compromises even in Glasgow. So we appreciate you giving us that holistic perspective when most people would just be worried about the bombs falling ahead. So thank you so much for Lana for sharing some of that with us. Thank you so much, Yasha. One thing as well that we're looking at was just the way the world is going. And I think you mentioned something earlier when you said it's not just going to Russia but the sad part is if we focus on Russia and fossil fuels and we just go to the next country since Saudi Arabia we're only perpetuating the problem and empowering these dictators. So I mean Saudi Arabia is beheading people and using bone sauce to murder journalists like Khashoggi what are some of the steps we could take to then become more clean and green which also then to me will be healthier and have a better resilient and renewable energy system for our planet's future. Yeah, absolutely. And actually the fossil fuel industry and its allies are exploiting the war in Ukraine to push for more oil and gas development and fracking an LNG export as exactly Saudi Arabia is doing. And of course just using more oil and gas and buying oil and gas from the dictators like we see like Putin will of course prop up those dictators and it will always be a threat of human rights abuse and these horrific wars across the planet. So that's why that's extremely important that we are anti for and we win over Putin's aggression and invasion and we stop all financial flows to Russian fossil fuel industry. That's how we enable a big geopolitical shift because Russia is the second largest importer of oil and the third largest importer of gas to many other countries. And I would like to point out as well that some countries as for example India some countries as China and partially Japan are still also buying oil from Russia and we work towards those countries and civil societies there just to make a call of them as well ban Russian fossil fuels and look into the renewable energy transition as exactly as the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty says because it consists of three main pillars and the first one is ending existing exploration with no ending exploration with adding to the exploration for example with building new gas infrastructure or new terminals. We just grow the problem, we just add to the problem because and we won't be able to help the current to end the current war and to end the current crisis. It will only deepen global dependence fossil fuels and further empowering Russia and other dictators and damaging the climate. And it's very important that we end all new explorations and face out fossil fuels as exactly Quebec did as the first city ended all exploration couple of days ago again in line with the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. And it will make sense to every state and actually every city and country to join the treaty and agree to global fossil fuel non-proliferation. And in early June there will be Stockholm plus 50 very important UN conference which back 50 years ago have started the first environmental conference focused conference all over the world. So it's very important that we bring fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty into that UN conference and we'll demand a concrete action from the governments of fossil fuel non-proliferation. Bringing up Stockholm is absolutely important and it also reinforces the importance of the UN sustainable development goals specifically SDG number seven on clean and renewable energy and pursuing renewable energy sources and punishing through and profoundly this is the most powerful way possible to stand in solidarity with the people of Ukraine. Yeah, yeah, we are calling from Ukraine we are calling for solidarity and we are calling for a green recovery of the crisis for the plan, exactly as the green Marshall plans that will help us to rebuild our infrastructure to rebuild our country towards the green renewable energy transition, not based on fossil fuels but not going back to the part of a history but just growing on the green energy transition. Yes, and one of your, my favorite quotes you said during the just look up Alliance moving was fossil fuels are the bulwarks of autocracy and the death of the natural world. When we look at that going forward people around the world are taking action for a peaceful and green future and Ukraine is definitely leading the way with such courage and creativity. What more can we do to live in peace together with renewable energy and rights for all? Just first of all, what we can do it's we could for instance produce air source heat pumps by the millions and ship them to Europe that US definitely can do. So by next winter they could be installed in homes and putting a noticeable dent in putting oil and gas leverage. It would be just a specific federal land lease program for the US but for a new day. We could quickly build out the network of electric buses, bikes and cars that would depress demand worldwide for Putin's fossil fuels and that of other oil and autocrats and bullies from the Saudi Royal family to the Koch network. And what if we stop believing that history determines today's reality so that the future has to look like the past? We as Ukrainians are remaking our history in this tragic but remarkable days with the shockingly brave resistance to a war machine funded by oil and gas. And of course those who funds this fossil fuel industry for example as a big banks as a big financial financial institutions all over the world they can chart in your course all we can force them to. So big banks I have to say have wavered over and over and just last fall it's a climate summit in Glasgow they engaged in industrial scale greenwashing as they claim the net zero climate targets would not preclude them from landing to oil companies for the next round of pipelines of fracking wells. So now some may engage in blood washing pretending that somehow they are helping the people's most misery they have ensured by this year's of backing pudding but we can push hard at these lies. So the only now matters for now only actions that could be made now for example seizing investments into Russia's fossil fuels or just stopping and in financial services for fossil fuel exploration in many parts of the world could make a huge sense for helping Ukraine to win over pudding. No it's a great point because no dictator can monopolize the sun and no autocrat can even stop the wind. So since boom can embargo the sun and he can't put up wall blocking the wind these are some of the ways that we can all take action to then provide a new way forward for the entire world. And I know everyone is concerned with the rising price in fossil fuels but the truth is the price of sunlight didn't change since the war started and the sun will continue to deliver energy every day and even next year and the year after that and we'll keep getting cheaper as we've seen the trend with solar. Maybe you could expand on that in some ways of why we actually see the answers are here today and how we can all be part of the solution and stand with Ukraine. Yeah, of course. First of all, you may just write this statement I will be sharing with you just in the chat. You may share and sign this very important statement which help us to collect the global solidarity and states that the different tomorrow is feasible and tomorrow free from pudding and other petro dictators is feasible and tomorrow free from climate hostile and war feeding fossil fuels is as well just feasible and vital and urgent step towards the future is the unavoidable support for the Ukrainian people which should also include a commitment for a green recovery of Ukraine from the war ashes. And you can help us deliver this earned support by also purposefully tackling pudding for budget and by taking both steps towards the radical decarbonization of our societies. Ukraine and Ukrainians are entitled to expect this support and our joint and bright future demands nothing less. It's true on Earth Day, we can realize that we give way too much power to those who produce oil. So we can respond collectively together here in Hawaii, in the U.S. and around the world together we can end this era of blood oil and create clean energy with non-cleration as you have shared with us today. We can all decide not one more drop of blood oil is welcome here and we must break that cycle of the private fossil fuel companies who have exploited war for profit in Ukraine but all around the world. Yeah, that's absolutely true. And we need to shift our forces and the government leadership which is needed to move to clean energy and low carbon technologies at the pace and scale required. And the tragic events in my country, the war, only stuff to underline the need to accelerate the transition to a low carbon economy. And just a few countries are willing to go it alone on a planned phase out of oil, gas and coal, highlighting the imperative of increased international cooperation. And unfortunately the Paris Agreement has no mechanism to facilitate a wind down of fossil fuels and accelerate energy transition where wealthy and fossil fuel producing countries lead and support us as to be part of the shift. That's why a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty is called for with negotiated terms for a phase out of the problem oil, gas and coal and a fast tracking of clean energy and associated solutions. It's true and as the bombs keep falling as we're talking about two months it's truly a churches, it's beyond heartbreaking but as the violence unfolds our movement is unifying more and more every day. And I can see people saying no more, no more war, no more bloodshed, no more blank checks are into dictators and militaries to fund their war machines. So as long as we continue to pour petrodollars into the pockets of evil men such as poo we will not see an end to that violence. And that's why we must continue to organize. One of the other points you raised was small steps. So one of the examples was looking at turning down thermostats by one degrees in colder months which we don't have to worry about here but we can not turn on our air conditioners. And it also shows all the connections. You of course were also one of the most supportive nations growing so much wheat for the world. And now we can see that your country is responsible for 12% of the global wheat exports, 60% of global corn exports and even 46% of global sunflower oil production. We have a sunflower field on Maui that's been getting phone calls to try to make up for that. And then the sad part is how this then is impacting people all around the world with higher costs and global food shortages which will create even more conflicts. Yeah, that's true. And the latest UN report has already stated that the war in Ukraine has already affected 1.7 billion people in 107 countries who are now faced with rising prices for food and energy. And yeah, and faced with the strong resistance from the Ukrainian armed forces and suffering heavy losses, Russian invaders are increasingly resorting to terrorist tactics and committing war crimes. So these war is still ongoing and more pressure needed on Russia to end the war in Ukraine and restores the global food security as well as one of the directions that you've pointed out. It's true, we must stop it because too many innocent lives are lost. And if you look at Pucha and many of the other places there are gross human rights as well as humanitarian law violations. But as we're talking about here on Earth Day today, the ripple effect of the Ukraine crisis on global grocery bills. However, it's just a taste of what is to come as climate change disrupts the world's agriculture areas. And humanitarian aid will also be impacted as well. And one book that's just come out as called a silent victim, how nature is really the first casualty of war. We stand with you in solidarity as we know of course the impact of the invasion on Ukraine and the impact then on nature as we see what has happened in previous armed conflicts around the world. Yes, and thank you for these global solidarity but the scale of environmental crimes committed through the territory of Ukraine is being devastating. And I will just name a few, there are fires on the oil and power plants and oil refining power plants. And there are a lot of toxic substances released and leaked into the ground and waters. And of course these bombs and missiles were killing people and destroying infrastructure. They are also producing greenhouse gas emissions. That increase like the CO2 emissions over the territory. Just many, yeah, that's environmental catastrophe along with the human catastrophe. But I truly believe that all these crimes will be punished in an appropriate manner and they will be all rain burst in full and even more to restore the environment of Ukraine and to just, yeah, to make a full restoration of what was damaged. But of course I feel incredibly sorry for that because we better protect our environment and the planets and destroy and then rebuild again. So that's a very upsetting and devastating impact that the war is having on environment and on the planet as well. It's true, the conflict has inflicted nightmares, casualties on the Ukrainian people. We see too many images and we must all stand together to stop it. What you're alluding to and what is also true is its impacts for each farther to starting the biodiversity of the planet itself which we all require. And I know that will be one of the points that you said you would raise at the Stockholm 50 conference. Yes, we definitely will do that during Stockholm plus 50. We do hope in many ways that your vibrant wetlands and forests as well as the Virgin step will be able to recuperate and we hope also that we send our aloha to you as well as we know the conflict has been brutal beyond belief and even the images that we've seen do not become close to capture the pain the Ukrainian people are feeling. We thank you also for taking time in your busy life to come and speak with us here and we send you a message of Malama Honua that's to take care of one another and also to take care of our earth. Thank you for joining us here on Earth Day. Thank you so much for inviting me and thank you for your solidarity and I hope that those people who will see it will express solidarity with Ukrainians as well. Thank you so much. Thank you. Aloha. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.