 When my daughter was, when she was four or five, she asked me a very similar question that you asked, she said, Daddy, am I living a dream or is this reality? So then I asked her, I said, so you tell me. So she said, is the world that I live in, is it my dream or is it imagination or is it reality? So I asked her, you tell me and she said, it's both. It's my imagination and it's reality, both. But this question persists, am I living a dream or is this reality? And I'm actually very afraid because it's such a subtle question. I'm afraid that as she grows, they'll take that question away from her in the way they educate her. So let's talk about childhood and education and in the school, the Isha school, tell me, is that an issue, what you're trying to do here? Essentially education is basically about enlarging the horizons of human perception. But unfortunately today, slowly education has shifted into a mode where people believe is about enforcing information, heaps of information. Information is useful, it's useful in a certain way, but it's not going to make your life. It'll earn you a living. So right now, most of the education on the planet has become essentially a means to earn a living, not to enlarge your horizons. So here at Isha Home School, education is about enlarging your horizons. So this is not about giving them ready-made answers as information. This is to have an active intelligence which constantly searches and seeks and looks at everything in every possible way. Above all, to know the joy of wondering about life, not having ready-made answers for everything. Ready-made answers are religion, not life. And so the question everybody's going to ask you is, in this highly competitive world, are you saying that they'll come out non-competitive or they will have such awareness that they'll make it become even more their ability to deal with this world will be more precise? See, when you're competitive, suppose you and me are walking and you're in competition with me, you will either get to walk slightly faster than me or probably less than me and feel depressed about it. If you walk little faster than me, you are going to be thinking you've reached the peak of your life. If you fall behind me, you'll feel depressed that you can't walk as fast as me. But if you're not in competition with myself, you would explore the possibilities of what you could do and maybe we don't know you could fly. I can walk fast, maybe you could fly, but you will miss out the possibility of flying because you're in competition with me. All you want to do is take few steps more than me. So the very human potential is distorted because people are in competition. Right now people believe that you will not propel yourself to your fullest if you're not in competition, which is a very false idea, a very, very false idea. We have cultivated that in societies that you believe you will not reach your full potential unless you're in competition, not at all true. Actually, only when a human being is in a very extended periods of joyfulness, blissfulness, he will stretch himself to the limits and do what he could do to the fullest. When he's in competition, when he's in fear of failure, he will only do little better than somebody else. So the human genius is completely missing today. You're destroying the human genius through the process of education, teaching competition. It's all about getting two marks more than the one who is sitting next to you. And in this mode of competition, only one can win, all others are losers. Isn't it? It's a horrible way to create a society. What I'm saying is the gardener in this school is as important for us as the headmistress of the school. So that's what the children are constantly perceiving. We're not saying these things as philosophies, but that's the atmosphere that is set. The one who cleans the place, one who cooks for us is as important as the teacher who teaches you science or literature or runs the school or me who visits once in a way to give them a different perspective of the whole thing. See, one of the school kids came to me, he was only twelve years of age. He's a brilliant boy. He wrote me a four-page letter. His language, his articulation of his thoughts and the kind of things that he said in the letter, just amazed me, I couldn't believe a twelve-year-old child, his letter is like a document. I said, my God, this boy is here. I said, I want to meet him. So it is a big thing for them to earn an appointment with me because generally I'm not available, my time is so scarce, I'm spread so thin. So I said, I want to meet the boy, so we gave him an appointment. So he came sat in front of me and said, Sir, Guru, I want to know, I want to know the truth of life. I don't want to waste my life doing simple things like my… I don't want to waste my life like my parents. I said, stop. Don't talk about that now. If parents wasted their life, that means your existence is a waste. Only because they did those stupid things that you think are stupid, you exist. So let's get the things in proper perspective. Right now there is a Dhyanalinga temple here. Tomorrow morning, without any explanation, if I just close it, if I don't open it at six o'clock in the morning, all the people, thousands of them will come, look and see, oh temple is closed, why? Sadguru closed it, oh he must have some higher purpose. They will wait for one or two hours, oh he's not opening, they'll go about their work. Every day they'll come, wait and go. Suppose I close the kitchen, without any explanation. If I close the kitchen, they'll come for lunch at ten o'clock in the morning and they will see, oh it's closed it. Oh, Sadguru has closed the kitchen. No food today means something really spiritual is going to happen. He's going to give us something today. Maybe it's a great party in the evening. Evening you come, again it's closed. Tomorrow again it's closed. Next day if it's again closed, you'll forget to use spirituality, you'll start a revolution in the ashram. Yes? Suppose without any explanation, I close, shut down all the toilets in the ashram. Within two hours there will be a revolution. So I asked him, tell me which is more important, temple or toilet? Ah-ha, he said, that's it. Once you put one above the other, you are not going to know anything in this world. Your whole perspective is distorted. So that is the basis of competition, trying to put one above the other. Once you make one thing bigger than the other, one thing small, one thing big, one thing high, one thing low, one thing divine, another thing filthy, then you miss the whole point of existence. So the essence of education is to enhance your perception in such a way that you are able to perceive a blade of grass being as important as the coconut tree. It's not less important. It's different, that's all. So everything that is a different... every difference that you find in the world, if you make it into a discriminatory process, that is what you're suffering a prejudice world. Every difference, whether between races or nations or languages and cultures and even gender, every difference we have made it a discriminatory process. And that has been our mode of education also unfortunately. So here at homeschool, there's... what the most important part of education here is not taught. It is a constant demonstration. All the teachers are dedicated people, they're all volunteers, hugely educated, but they're all here to volunteer their full time, their life, they're volunteering to make this happen for the children. So the key element of the school is the way everybody moves, the way everybody sits and stands and eats and does everything. Education, you have to follow some system, we are following ICSE, but the most important thing is the atmosphere, the ambience, the way it is. One thing you will see is the strength of the children, the mental strength of the child here is phenomenal. Today that is one thing that's missing in the urban schools. They're all becoming flaky. Competition will make them determined and focused in one way, at the same time make them fearful of failure, fearful of, you know, being less than somebody else. Here you'll see they don't have that at all in them. Every one of them is a king by himself. I notice that I've seen the children and I've saw these children but I've seen other children and what surprises me mostly is that there's a certain sense of alertness in them. When I go back to urban areas anywhere in the world you see children walking to school and there's that sense of lack of purpose, I guess. Now I can't say I can't impose purpose on kids but I have to say whenever I've seen kids from the Isha school, wherever I've seen them, completely alert. There seem to be going from one place to another with a sense of identity and sense of doing something. And I find that and with a lot of happiness, it's not that they don't laugh. See, getting to know something for any human being, getting to know something, moving into a new area of life, learning, it's always a joyful process. But unfortunately schooling is not a joyful process for most children. I must tell you this, when I was just in my sixth standard, the president of India died and we got two days leave. The closed school was closed for two days. We went to the school, then we came to know he's dead and they announced that it's holiday today and also tomorrow. So all of us met, me and my friends, wow, the president died means we get two days. We didn't know this until then. Two days off, suppose the prime minister dies, how many days? Chief minister dies, how many days? In our minds, we're just killing the whole cabinet. One by one, if they all die this year, how many days off will we get? Why is school such a horrible place? Because learning is always a joyful experience for any human being. It is, actually. When you get to know something new, there is a certain invigoration of energy within you. But that's not happening in the school simply because of the way it is delivered. So that's the reason I started this school and I wanted that to be different, that people must be excited about learning. You won't believe it. At 11, 11, 13 in the night, some children can't sleep. They say, Akka, Akka, please, Akka, open the library. I just want to see this one thing. You know, this is the regular thing. I just want to… just Akka, I won't spend time. Five minutes, I want to just see. He wants to know before he goes to bed. He can't go to bed without knowing that now because it's always like that. So to keep that enthusiasm up, to keep that inquisitiveness up, longing to know that is the job of the teacher. Knowing is a child's job. Here the teacher is just working to keep that up, the longing to know. So any special techniques you developed here in sense of… I mean, I'm… I wish that I was taught mathematics differently and now, you know, at this age I'm obsessed with mathematics but I should have learned it that all I can remember is the fear of maths. They're employing nothing very special as such because what I see is it is information versus inspiration. Here they're inspired. That's why you see them moving about with such energy because they're inspired. Information, if you have an alert mind, you can gather anytime. And today the way the technology is developing, you carrying all the information in your head is not any more relevant, you know? It's all there on the net. If you have an alert mind when you want it, you have it. They're doing very well academically also. And are you planning to open more schools? I've thought because there's so much demand, we thought at some point we should open four… maximum of four schools in India, this kind. One in the westerns, this is the southern one, one in the western sector, northern sector and eastern sector. But opening a school like this will not happen because you build buildings. You have to get those kind of people who are committed to making it happen. That's always the challenge because dedication is the scarce material in the world today. Though we are enjoying that much in Isha, still it's a very scarce material in the world. Everybody is always doing something thinking, okay, what will I get? Not doing something simply because they love to do it. Those people are very small number. So we're talking about childhood innocence and its relevance to us as adults. I didn't talk about innocence. I don't think a child is innocent. Okay. Oh, he can be very mean. Okay, if he doesn't get what he wants, he'll get very mean. The beauty of the child is he's flexible. That's all that needs to happen to the adult also. Not that he's innocent, ignorant, that's not the point. The point is that he's flexible. That's the most important aspect of the child. The same thing comes to the adult. He's also fine. Generally it's become fashionable for people to say, like a child, somewhere they're thinking, adulthood is evil, childhood is a good thing, you know? Child is just in the making. Adulthood is a real thing. Even so-called spiritual people go about saying, I'm like a child. So I keep asking people, do you really want to be a child? Suppose at the age of six, your body and your mind stopped growing and you remained a child, is that a great thing? We'll call you a retard, isn't it? Isn't it good you've grown out of your childhood? Because you made a mess out of your adulthood, you're aspiring for your childhood. I think adulthood is great. Do you think the children have that kind of perception that we then have to work towards? Do you think we need to uneducate ourselves? Do you think that the normal learning processes that we go through in modern day life is actually lessening our ability to become greater human beings or more perceptive? No, Shekhar, the thing is what you know is not the problem in your life. The more you know, the better it is, okay? That's why you're trying to know. But now you're complaining, knowing is a problem, I have to unlearn. No, I wouldn't say that. Knowing is not causing what you know, knowledge is not causing problem. You're identified with what you know. That is what is causing problem. If you learn to be not identified with what you know, all that you know, whether it is considered great knowledge or it's considered spilled on the street, both are useful actually to live a life. Isn't it? So knowledge is not the problem. You get identified with every bit of information that you gather, that is the problem. Identity is the problem. Knowledge is not the problem. So somewhere when you say I want to be like a child, you're celebrating ignorance. And I'm singing, and you're saying, no, knowledge is not the problem. Knowledge is not the burden. Identity is the burden. You get identified with limited things that you know, that is the problem. So let's talk more about identity. Let's explore the idea of identity. Then who am I beyond my knowledge, my identity, all the things that we talk about, who am I? It's a question that everybody will ask you and it's a very large question. So let's start with identity. What do I identify with in myself that I say this is me and you say, well, actually this is just your accumulations. So then what do I what do I identify with? If anything. See, to operate in the world, to function in the world, you need an identity. Now if you can't go in Mumbai and somebody asked who are you, you can say, I'm a nobody. That would be ridiculous. So, to function with people around you, to function in the society in which you exist, you need an identity. Just shaker will not do because there may be too many shakers. You need a kapoor attached to it. So it's giving you an identity. If you say, shaker kapoor, but you're just listening to your name, one thing I know, oh, he's from India. Okay? You may not be identified as an Indian, but I know, you're obviously of Indian origin. Listening to Kapoor, I think, okay, he must be somewhere. This region of India. So, it gives certain access, ability to function with each other. So we have certain cultural identities. So in that sense, identity is perfectly fine. But if you believe I am that, then you're in a mess. It limits you in a huge way. If you believe I am a kapoor, then you are in trouble because your identity limits you. Because the very way the human mind works is, your mind works always around your identity. What you're identified with always seems to be right. What you're not identified with doesn't seem to be right. I am that you went through. There was a man from Islamabad. He's Pakistani. And the guy did not tell anybody that he's from Pakistan because a whole lot of situations is going on, you know, whatever. In yesterday night, he came and told me I am from Pakistan. I said, that's great. I truly appreciate that you came here. You should have told everybody. People would have reached out to you like anything in this country. But in his mind, he thought this identity could be a problem. So being an Indian in a Pakistani is essentially a political identity which just popped up fifty, sixty years ago, okay? Before that, there was no such thing. Suddenly we became this, where did this come from? We invented it, right? Somebody drew an artificial line and said, those who fall this side are Indians, those who fall that side are Pakistani. And just see how much trouble because you're identified with that. Now, having an identity for practical purposes of operation in the world is one thing. But having an identity to make yourself into something within yourself is a different thing. You're trying to build your essential nature with your identity. That's a big mess. That means you will not be a being. You will not be a human being. You will just be a thing, an idea, a thought, an opinion or a bundle of prejudices which go with that identity. Every identity is a prejudice. The moment you are identified as an Indian everything Indian seems to be nice to you. Something else which is against the Indian is also against you. It's not a thing that you have to think. It just works like that within you. And that would apply to so I'm Shekhar Kapoor, that's my name, I'm a father, I'm a filmmaker. All of that is identity. So all of that I understand so how do you go beyond identity because that's what we've Now you want to function in Bollywood you have people who is better people know that you're a filmmaker otherwise nobody will ask you to make a film. So there to work in the world it's necessary but if you believe I am a filmmaker and that's what I am I think it hugely cripples you because your mind will work only around that. The more the deeper your experience of life the better filmmaker you would be for sure, isn't it? The better you would anything you would be for sure isn't it? Now there is a school teacher teaching six year olds but that person how deep that person's experience of life is that better a teacher he or she is, isn't it so? How deep my experience of life is that better a guru I am, isn't it so? Isn't it true with filmmaking? But the depth of your experience will be crippled the moment you identify yourself it's something. You can deepen your experience only if you're wide open to everything, isn't it? I agree. So who am I? Now you're asking me who you are. This is a problem who am I? If you ask me who I am it's different. If you ask if you go to anybody and say who am I that's then they'll take you to psychiatric ward all right, I'll risk that I'll risk that who am I? So right now the human condition is such that without knowing anything about the nature of his existence he's trying to make a living without knowing anything about what this is he's trying to somehow pass through the world obviously it is going to be very accidental, isn't it? So when a person is going through his whole life in an accidental manner he being in a great sense of anxiety, fear struggle is very natural and now we are going about describing life, life is struggle life is not struggle if you are blind walking from here to there also is a struggle if your eyes are open joyful you can walk through so life has become a struggle because there is no clarity of perception as to what is me, what is the world what is the nature of this existence there is no perception so if I tell you you are a human being it satisfies you but if you think a little more it doesn't work if I tell you you are atman you are a soul it satisfies you if you think a little more even that doesn't work so whatever I am going to tell you is not going to work so only if your perception takes you there because only what you perceive it may be a true story but still a story isn't it stories will entertain you stories may inspire you stories may solace you but stories will never be a solution in your life stories will never realize you isn't it So there is no alternative to working hard towards perception No again working hard why should you work hard to become yourself if you want to become something else you have to work hard to be yourself why should you work hard there is no working hard anyway you are that enlightenment is not an achievement it is just a realization when we see this must be very very clear this is a realization we say self realization God realization when we say realization it simply means you are only you only perceive what is already there you didn't attain something you didn't create something you didn't attain something what was already there you just realized yes so it is a realization it is not an attainment why is it so difficult what you say is very simple it's there everything is creation why is it so difficult it is not difficult now your whole perception of life is through the sense perception yes seeing hearing smelling tasting touching sense organs in the very nature of things are outward bound because they are essentially created for your survival you can see what is around you you cannot roll your eyeballs inside and scan yourself you can hear this so much activity in the body can you hear that even if something as small as an ant crawls upon this hand you can feel it so much blood flowing can you feel it no so in the very nature of things your perception is right now outward bound but the basis of your experience is all inside of you see right now you see me you think you believe you see me sitting here but it's not true actually in your experience you are seeing me within yourself light is falling upon this reflecting going through your lenses inverted image in the retina the whole experience is inside isn't it you hear me within you you see me within you you see the whole world inside of yourself the way it's projected everybody is a filmmaker actually isn't it they are projecting the world inside the way it's projected the same world may not be projected the same way as it is being projected within you within the experience of an insect which is sitting there in the bird it is different in the dog it's you know dogs don't see the color if you wear all the colorful clothes and come they just stare at you because you're all black and white today there is substantial knowledge about this thing that neurologists are telling you whatever you see is broken the information is broken into 14 different aspects and you are actually seeing me in 14 different parts of your brain not in one place if one part of it doesn't work you may not see the color in another part doesn't work you may not not see the texture so you understand this being a filmmaker isn't it you can take a camera and do this to get the color right to get the texture right to get the form right to get everything right there is a certain thing involved so all this is happening within you in many different ways it is just not the way you're seeing it it's in many different ways as it is necessary for your survival what is day for you is night for somebody else isn't it another creature thinks it's night what is night for you is day for them so even what is light and darkness is your making so that's why in this culture we went on saying it's your karma it's your karma when we say it's your karma karma means action when we say it's your karma if he's 100% you're doing it's you're doing nobody else is doing so right now your sense organs are all outward bound but the basis of your experience is within you you have no way to access it who you are is within you but your perception is all outward bound so this is like someone came looking for isha yoga center to a close by village and they asked the local boy how far is isha yoga center and he said it's 24,996 miles he said what that far away he said yes the way you're going if you turn around it's only four miles so right now it seems difficult because you are facing west and wanting to watch the sunrise it's a very difficult thing if you turn around it's a very simple thing so this turning around to look inward the necessary basis has not been created in the society today there was a time when spiritual process was the main thing in this society in this culture at that time any number of realized beings realized being was not a rarity rarity in this culture people had sages and saints just about anywhere isn't it because there was necessary infrastructure at that time in a village there would be only one person who could read I remember this I had a farm in Karnataka there is only one person who can read in the village everybody gets their personal letters for him to read you know a wife wants to read a letter that her husband has written a postcard comes she goes to this man and he has to read so he reads and interprets in a million ways that he knows so just literacy was a rare thing because the necessary infrastructure was not there and it looked like one strange mystical thing that somebody is able to look at the postcard and say all these things look like a great mystical thing right now that's exactly what you're talking why is it so difficult it's not difficult because we did not maintain that infrastructure of inward looking in the society you did not cultivate that right from your childhood now it looks like a far away thing suppose you did not know how to read and write if you look at a book and somebody looks at a book saying all these things would look like a mystical process isn't it we haven't invested in that direction so that's exactly what we're trying to build now to build an infrastructure of spiritual process in the world to give the necessary infrastructure because no society has invested enough towards the inner well-being of a human being we have hospitals, we have schools, we have toilets we have this, we have that but we don't have enough infrastructure for the actual well-being the inner well-being of a human being because your well-being and whatever else you go through your joy and misery happens within you your pain and pleasure happens within you agony and ecstasy happens within you everything that happens to your human being happens within you for that we have not built any infrastructure so there was a time they say Krishna built about 1400 ashrams across the country in the northern plains an infrastructure that's needed for the society to live well so we don't have such infrastructure