 Jonathan Sheridan live from FIG for you now so Jonathan we are going to talk about that in just a moment but perhaps if we just also pivot into the junk bond space because from your perspective cast your eye over this one what goes on in the US are you saying treat that as distinct from what's best practice here you know explain the story if you could. Yes certainly good morning as we know the US high-yield markets the biggest in the world we've only got a very nascent high-yield market here in Australia with only about 22 issues and so we always look to the US for guidance in that market and clearly with the meltdown in commodity markets in particular in the energy space what we see is about 40% of that high-yield market in the US particularly in recent issuance has come out of the shale oil industry and they're obviously the ones with the higher cost of production and the ones really getting hurt by this low oil price now what we're seeing is contagion from those issuers across the high-yield space in particular because there's a lot of mutual funds and index-based funds that track the the entire population and they're trying to sell out of their energy plays which are really getting hammered and therefore it's kind of dragging the rest of the sector down with it so I think our view is that you know in high-yield as with any riskier asset you need to pick your individual investment very carefully and you shouldn't really just tar all of high-yield with the same brush to say that it's all you know really under pressure and terrible investments at this time yeah but I mean it's tough because you obviously see third Avenue and that's sort of the case study of the moment given that it sort of began that liquidation of distressed credit fund assets but then you know you hear other people say well there's never just one cockroach during a credit meltdown and we've already seen other funds have have similar issues even as far as London so just talk us through whether you think there could be more of a contagion effect from this and here in Australia even yeah that's right look I think the thing the thing that we're really talking about here is liquidity and what you find with liquidity is it you know in general it's always there when you don't need it and when you really want to get out of something that's when it disappears because everyone's racing for the exits at the same time so that's why I say you need to pick your investments very carefully and you need to understand what you what you're getting into you know not necessarily everything is always tradable so that's why these funds have locked up their redemptions because it's very easy to provide daily liquidity when things are going well and there's an orderly transition of assets from the funds holdings into cash to pay redemptions but what you see is that if you know for sectors under pressure people are all trying to sell there's often not enough capital around to soak up all those all those offers and and they can't meet their redemptions which is why they've locked up those funds so they can give the cash back to their investors in an orderly manner and not have to institute fire sales the Dallas president of the Fed Richard Fisher was actually here as you'll remember April of last year he was at that point saying look there are high levels of margin debt junk bond yields then it were nearing record lows this is not a new occurrence this has been sloshing around there have been people concerned and it's expressing as much before yeah you're absolutely right but I think you know if you're if you're buying a highly leveraged oil play at 5% for five or six years for example then you know that's a very high-risk investment that you're taking on with not much margin for error you know our advice to our clients is always that you should be prepared to hold these things to maturity and if you're investing in the high yield space it's going to be a rocky a ride than if you're investing in investment grade bonds you know because their investment grade for a reason and their high yield for a reason so you have to be comfortable with the potential of holding that credit through you know really bad mark-to-market valuations against you but as long as you've got faith in the story then things should come good in the end makes sense really quickly we've got rba minutes out in about five minutes time less than five minutes what are you expecting to see anything new look I don't think there'll be anything new we've had a Glenn Stevens making a couple of speeches since the rate decision to stay on hold and I think that'll be the message that's put forward in these minutes it'd be interesting just to see how they if or how if and if they discuss the iron ore price reductions that's that's a big thing sure they can't avoid that John Sheridan we will check in with you later thank you very much